| SpinAll4 | 05-17-2001 10:32 PM |
Monaco F1 track-- would a WRC car come close to f1 lap time?
I was playing 'F1 season 2000' on ps2, and its so hard to even make some of the tight turns in the F1 cars. Also remembering last years F1 race- how slow some of those corners are, i wondered how close a WRC car could come as far as lap times. The rally car should be able to stomp those hairpins and other tight corners. The F1 cars have a giant advantage on the straights.
Anyone have any guesses?
Or am i just really stupid?
Anyone have any guesses?
Or am i just really stupid?
| Jeff 2.5RS | 05-17-2001 10:52 PM |
I'm guessing on tarmac the wrc car would get it's butt handed to it, those F1 cars corner just as fast or faster then the wrc cars on tarmac, it may not look it but they're flying through those turns, a wrc car would be way behind, but then again a wrc car is built for a variety of road conditions and F1 cars are made for tarmac only.
| Greg Sharpe | 05-17-2001 11:00 PM |
But 800hp vs. 400hp doesn't sound like a fair comparison. Not that any WRC or F1 team would ever disclose their actual HP output [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
| ottawars | 05-17-2001 11:18 PM |
wrc = 300bhp/5500rpm
| jhuang76 | 05-17-2001 11:54 PM |
AWD definately will help on tarmac - remember the days when AWD F1 cars dominated before F1 banned them. Also, don't forget that on tarmac, drifting actually wastes time! Even if the WRC is configed for road racing, it will still have to really sacrifice it's entrance speed in order to get a good exit.
But, as Greg mentioned, the F1 has just way too much HP to be anywhere near fair. Once the rears settle, they will flat out blow any road car away. BTW, even if they had the same horsepower, the F1 probably will still win. F1, and practically all prototype cars, are just soooo light and well designed (heck, they have only one purpose in life).
BUT, you could always play dirty [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]. What amounts to a little fender bender to a WRC car would do a crud load of damage to the F1 car [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
But, as Greg mentioned, the F1 has just way too much HP to be anywhere near fair. Once the rears settle, they will flat out blow any road car away. BTW, even if they had the same horsepower, the F1 probably will still win. F1, and practically all prototype cars, are just soooo light and well designed (heck, they have only one purpose in life).
BUT, you could always play dirty [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]. What amounts to a little fender bender to a WRC car would do a crud load of damage to the F1 car [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
| Buck-O | 05-18-2001 01:19 AM |
I remeber reading an article, unfortunatly, the page has changed formats, and the article has been chaged as well, so i can not quote it exactly.
But i beleive it was back in 1985, the final year of the Group-B's that Toivinen (SP?) took an S4 around Monoco, which was set up as a SSS for a rally, and clocked in a stage time, that had it been a qualifying lap, would have placed him 5th from poll on the Monoco GP of that year.
So that was a Group-B car way ahead of its time, with older F1 cars that had not fully been developed to the level they are today.
But considering that WR Cars are reaching speeds above that of their Group-B relatives, a WR Car might have hung in there relativly well against an older F1, but next to a modern day F1, not a chance. A modern F1 car has brakes as big as the wheels on a WR Car, and weighs a 1/3 as much. And on any straight longer then an 1/8 of a mile, an F1 car will be at 150+, most WR Cars at 135 are bouncing off the rev limiter.
So against a modern F1 car, i dont beleive there is any holologated car that could even come close to their level of performance. In fact i dont beleive any sports car (including a prototype) could match the performance of a modern F1 car. Its jsut no feisable.
But i beleive it was back in 1985, the final year of the Group-B's that Toivinen (SP?) took an S4 around Monoco, which was set up as a SSS for a rally, and clocked in a stage time, that had it been a qualifying lap, would have placed him 5th from poll on the Monoco GP of that year.
So that was a Group-B car way ahead of its time, with older F1 cars that had not fully been developed to the level they are today.
But considering that WR Cars are reaching speeds above that of their Group-B relatives, a WR Car might have hung in there relativly well against an older F1, but next to a modern day F1, not a chance. A modern F1 car has brakes as big as the wheels on a WR Car, and weighs a 1/3 as much. And on any straight longer then an 1/8 of a mile, an F1 car will be at 150+, most WR Cars at 135 are bouncing off the rev limiter.
So against a modern F1 car, i dont beleive there is any holologated car that could even come close to their level of performance. In fact i dont beleive any sports car (including a prototype) could match the performance of a modern F1 car. Its jsut no feisable.
| Fred Zaplitny | 05-18-2001 06:01 AM |
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
Ummmmm.....NO!
[This message has been edited by Fred Zaplitny (edited May 18, 2001).]
Ummmmm.....NO!
[This message has been edited by Fred Zaplitny (edited May 18, 2001).]
| J Colman | 05-18-2001 06:28 AM |
Are you serious?
You could probably give a WRC car a half a lap lead and it would still loose.
Justin
You could probably give a WRC car a half a lap lead and it would still loose.
Justin
| Arioch | 05-18-2001 06:35 AM |
i have a movie of dc putting the smack down on 2 other stock mercedes. one is a little midget minivan or something, and the other is a top of the line luxary car. little car goes off the line, 15 seconds later the luxary car goes off the line, and 70 seconds after the first car went off, dc launches in the mclaren formula 1 car. in a little over 3 miles, he makes up the 70 second deficit and blows past the others...
i have the video at home, and i'll either upload it at lunch or try to fond where it is online.... it's a great vid and really shows the ability of these cars.
granted, these are stock cars, but the wrc cars can't be [i]that[/i] much faster... not 70/55 seconds faster than those mercedes are...
just my thoughts.
-dave
{edit}i believe the track was silverstone... {/edit}
[This message has been edited by Arioch (edited May 18, 2001).]
i have the video at home, and i'll either upload it at lunch or try to fond where it is online.... it's a great vid and really shows the ability of these cars.
granted, these are stock cars, but the wrc cars can't be [i]that[/i] much faster... not 70/55 seconds faster than those mercedes are...
just my thoughts.
-dave
{edit}i believe the track was silverstone... {/edit}
[This message has been edited by Arioch (edited May 18, 2001).]
| donjuan | 05-18-2001 06:39 AM |
can't...help it...must....post
<IMG SRC="http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/cwm/big/retard.gif" border=0>
<IMG SRC="http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/cwm/big/retard.gif" border=0>
| J Colman | 05-18-2001 06:43 AM |
Woooohhooooo, he got a tard-face.
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
Justin
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
Justin
| SpinAll4 | 05-18-2001 07:14 AM |
OK OK I am stupid!
Now, howsa bout we add a little RAIN to that tight Monaco track. That should give a WRCar a little more of a chance to get close.
8^\
Now, howsa bout we add a little RAIN to that tight Monaco track. That should give a WRCar a little more of a chance to get close.
8^\
| J Colman | 05-18-2001 08:49 AM |
Were just playing with you, I got the tard-face yesterday from DonJuan, he loves that thing.
I still think an F1 would win in the rain, but it might be a little close challenge than in the dry. F1 cars weigh next to nothing, they handle insanely well, and they redline at like 18K. I doubt there would be many races that WRC would win, except off-road.
I still think an F1 would win in the rain, but it might be a little close challenge than in the dry. F1 cars weigh next to nothing, they handle insanely well, and they redline at like 18K. I doubt there would be many races that WRC would win, except off-road.
| grimlock | 05-18-2001 09:03 AM |
Destruction Derby!!!
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
| donjuan | 05-18-2001 09:07 AM |
Yeah no harm meant. I just like the tard-face and pass them out now and then [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/smile.gif[/img] Just funnin'
| Marco | 05-18-2001 09:32 AM |
There is absolutely, positively not comparison whatsoever, rain or shine!!!
Just think about this:
F1 = 800+HP and 1300lbs. Power to weight ratio is 1.625 to 1.
WRC = 300HP and 2300lbs. Power to weight ratio is 7.6 to 1.
With these numbers, AWD means exactly jack!!!
BTW, I've never seen a tarmac setup WRC car pull 3 or 4 Gs in the corners, have you?
Please, stop the madness [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Cheers,
Marco
Just think about this:
F1 = 800+HP and 1300lbs. Power to weight ratio is 1.625 to 1.
WRC = 300HP and 2300lbs. Power to weight ratio is 7.6 to 1.
With these numbers, AWD means exactly jack!!!
BTW, I've never seen a tarmac setup WRC car pull 3 or 4 Gs in the corners, have you?
Please, stop the madness [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Cheers,
Marco
| Tim K. | 05-18-2001 10:02 AM |
One word: Downforce
The F1 cars have loads of downforce. With this they can generate very high lateral G loads too. They would simply destroy a WRC car.
When you add the phenomenal braking and accelerative forces of a F1 car, the WRC car doesn't stand a chance.
No harm in wondering though...
The F1 cars have loads of downforce. With this they can generate very high lateral G loads too. They would simply destroy a WRC car.
When you add the phenomenal braking and accelerative forces of a F1 car, the WRC car doesn't stand a chance.
No harm in wondering though...
| J Colman | 05-18-2001 10:03 AM |
Marco,
Why the [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] ?
Justin
Why the [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] ?
Justin
| H1 | 05-18-2001 10:19 AM |
He's from Texis.
You'd be angry too.
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
You'd be angry too.
[img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
| Buck-O | 05-18-2001 10:31 AM |
Why is everyone calling BS about the Group-B Lancia Delta S4?
Look back in some old school Group-B info on the S4, it has to be posted around somewhere.
Today, not a chance...not in any conditon.
Look back in some old school Group-B info on the S4, it has to be posted around somewhere.
Today, not a chance...not in any conditon.
| skidplatez | 05-18-2001 11:22 AM |
You guys are forgetting about the peugot 206! Certainly Subaru or Mitsu couldn't beat them but those damn frogs cheat like mad I bet they could do it! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img][img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/lol.gif[/img]
| Greg Sharpe | 05-18-2001 11:45 AM |
Dude, my Turbo Sprint has 300hp/5500rpm![img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
| Arioch | 05-18-2001 03:23 PM |
here's the page that the vid is on. it's hosted by angelfire for the moment, so bear with me....
go to the page, right click the link and save the piz file, rename it to .zip, unizp it and enjoy!
and no, the wrc cars would have no chance.
[url="http://www.angelfire.com/wi2/delSol/mclaren"]http://www.angelfire.com/wi2/delSol/mclaren[/url]
{edit}******* angelfire!!!!!!!! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] {/edit}
[This message has been edited by Arioch (edited May 18, 2001).]
go to the page, right click the link and save the piz file, rename it to .zip, unizp it and enjoy!
and no, the wrc cars would have no chance.
[url="http://www.angelfire.com/wi2/delSol/mclaren"]http://www.angelfire.com/wi2/delSol/mclaren[/url]
{edit}******* angelfire!!!!!!!! [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/smilies/mad.gif[/img] {/edit}
[This message has been edited by Arioch (edited May 18, 2001).]
| go go go | 05-18-2001 09:31 PM |
F1 WAY WAY is faster.
I have GT3 and PS2. (Got it in Japan and love it)
GT3 has Monaco track and F1 cars as well.
My Lancer EVO7 WRC rally car does around 1'46 with no mod.
[This message has been edited by go go go (edited May 18, 2001).]
I have GT3 and PS2. (Got it in Japan and love it)
GT3 has Monaco track and F1 cars as well.
My Lancer EVO7 WRC rally car does around 1'46 with no mod.
[This message has been edited by go go go (edited May 18, 2001).]
| SpinAll4 | 05-18-2001 10:01 PM |
Hey, no offense taken guys. If you look at my original post it sez at the end that i may be stupid! Really I could be!
no worries.
So when the rest of us get GranTurismo 3, we can rip around Monaco in our WRX's? cool.
no worries.
So when the rest of us get GranTurismo 3, we can rip around Monaco in our WRX's? cool.
| Arioch | 05-18-2001 11:42 PM |
last i heard was june 10th.
| J Colman | 05-19-2001 12:13 AM |
Hahahahaha
I did live in Texas for a while, let me tell ya, that place is a huge.
Justin
I did live in Texas for a while, let me tell ya, that place is a huge.
Justin
| Tyrmeltr | 05-19-2001 09:31 PM |
Historical note - In 1986 the HB/Bosch Audisport team did testing at Estoril, Portugal with Walter Rohl behind the wheel of the mighty Quattro S1 sport. As some motorsport fans will remember, Estoril was a former part of the Formula 1 World Championship.
The test was specifically a real time engine endurance test. The heavily modified five cyliner turbocharged engine, rumored to be at around or above 1,000hp, was to debut at the '87 Monte Carlo rally.
Amongst other things, due to the horrific Ford RS200 crash during the '86 Rallye de Portugal, and the great Henry Toivonen's untimely death at the Tour de Corse, the group B class was banned from the FIA World Rally Championship.
Anyways, the best time Walter Rohl recorded during the test would have qualifed him 6th on the grid for the '86 Portugese GP.
In a modern sense, a current specification WRC car has no chance on a road course against an F1 car. Unless of course maybe the track was covered in Ice. On the other hand, and in fairness to the WRC car, an F1 car has no chance on almost all the stages that comprise the World Rally Championship.
Later all, and keep your Subies slideways!
Arik - Your friendly neighboorhood Finn.
The test was specifically a real time engine endurance test. The heavily modified five cyliner turbocharged engine, rumored to be at around or above 1,000hp, was to debut at the '87 Monte Carlo rally.
Amongst other things, due to the horrific Ford RS200 crash during the '86 Rallye de Portugal, and the great Henry Toivonen's untimely death at the Tour de Corse, the group B class was banned from the FIA World Rally Championship.
Anyways, the best time Walter Rohl recorded during the test would have qualifed him 6th on the grid for the '86 Portugese GP.
In a modern sense, a current specification WRC car has no chance on a road course against an F1 car. Unless of course maybe the track was covered in Ice. On the other hand, and in fairness to the WRC car, an F1 car has no chance on almost all the stages that comprise the World Rally Championship.
Later all, and keep your Subies slideways!
Arik - Your friendly neighboorhood Finn.
| Buck-O | 05-20-2001 10:45 PM |
Thanks for digging up that info.
Now i remember it being the Estoril circuit, but i swore it was with a Lancia Delta S4...oh well, either way still way too damn fast.
Now i remember it being the Estoril circuit, but i swore it was with a Lancia Delta S4...oh well, either way still way too damn fast.
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