| motorhead16v4 | 09-19-2002 04:17 PM |
new guy wondering about rallying
I have a few questions. Actually, I found out about i-club through a racing post on the Protege forums. Anyway, I was wondering if there is something equivalent to autox for rallying. What kind of classes do they have? What is a good car to start out with (I'm talking old and inexpensive here, but which older cars shine)? Any info would be appreciated.
| Achilles38WRX | 09-19-2002 04:22 PM |
they do! its called rallycross, and its fun! im no expert, only done it once, but basically you slide around on dirt, dodging cones, just like auto-x.
as far as classes, im not sure, may depend on which club is running the race.
as far as an old car, id personally try and find an older subaru, but others may have better suggestions.
mark
as far as classes, im not sure, may depend on which club is running the race.
as far as an old car, id personally try and find an older subaru, but others may have better suggestions.
mark
| motorhead16v4 | 09-19-2002 04:24 PM |
Thanks. That's a start! Yeah I was thinking about an old Justy or something, but which models are good?
Adam
Adam
| Subie Gal | 09-19-2002 05:37 PM |
Good example of the rules etc:
see - [url]www.oregonrally.com[/url]
justy would run in Production class in our region ;)
unless modified or running rally treads...
cheers!
Jamie
[url]www.subiegalracing.com[/url]
see - [url]www.oregonrally.com[/url]
justy would run in Production class in our region ;)
unless modified or running rally treads...
cheers!
Jamie
[url]www.subiegalracing.com[/url]
| Sean | 09-20-2002 12:33 AM |
Check out [url]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/[/url] to see some of the Rallycross courses. Usually $20 to $60 for the day, an autocross on dirt. Any car will do...there's a guy at the Team O'Neil rallycrosses who kicks everyones' butts with a bone stock FWD Civic. :)
Classes are usually FWD Production, 4WD Production, FWD Modified, 4WD Modified, Truck, etc.
Here are some examples of conditions you'll find:
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/20011104-02-CoveredBrdgHP/640/20011104-055-CoveredBrdgHP.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/02068-01-BMWCCA-IceRace/640/02068-013-BMWCCA-IceRace.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/20020126-05-TeamONeil/640/20020126-202-TeamONeil.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/20010811-01-TeamONeil/640/20010811-003-TeamONeil.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/20001105-01/640/20001105-015-dcrallyx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
Classes are usually FWD Production, 4WD Production, FWD Modified, 4WD Modified, Truck, etc.
Here are some examples of conditions you'll find:
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/20011104-02-CoveredBrdgHP/640/20011104-055-CoveredBrdgHP.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/02068-01-BMWCCA-IceRace/640/02068-013-BMWCCA-IceRace.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/20020126-05-TeamONeil/640/20020126-202-TeamONeil.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/20010811-01-TeamONeil/640/20010811-003-TeamONeil.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/20001105-01/640/20001105-015-dcrallyx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| jprowland | 09-20-2002 09:03 AM |
That "guy at the Team O'Neil rallycrosses who kicks everyones' butts" is Ted Mendam, I believe he's won the national Production ProRally championship in his Nissan SE-R...so small wonder he spanks everybody around in his wife's Civic (which is for sale, by the way, if anybody's looking for a car that's lived half its life bouncing off the rev limiter... :) )
| motorhead16v4 | 09-20-2002 11:17 AM |
Thanks again for all the responses. I think I heard some of the old wagons had closer gears...or a shorter final drive...does anyone know about this? For rallyX, close gears would be an advantage. Also, for stock classes, are things like gutting it and putting in seats illegal, or is stock class similar to the regs. for autoX? I've got a book on autoX, but that really doesn't help me....
| Sean | 09-20-2002 11:28 AM |
Check out the PerformanceRally rulebook:
[url]http://www.scca.org/amateur/performance_rally/02rulebook/index.html[/url]
Rallycross regulations usually follow the ClubRally/ProRally rules and then slightly modify them on a per-event basis, for example:
[url]http://www.geocities.com/vbares/burlingtoncarsGenInfo.htm[/url]
So, according to those supplimentals for that specific event, I have to move up to modified if I run rally tires and coilovers even though rally tires and coilovers are "Production" legal in "real" rally.
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[url]http://www.scca.org/amateur/performance_rally/02rulebook/index.html[/url]
Rallycross regulations usually follow the ClubRally/ProRally rules and then slightly modify them on a per-event basis, for example:
[url]http://www.geocities.com/vbares/burlingtoncarsGenInfo.htm[/url]
So, according to those supplimentals for that specific event, I have to move up to modified if I run rally tires and coilovers even though rally tires and coilovers are "Production" legal in "real" rally.
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| Sean | 09-20-2002 11:31 AM |
Since the rulebook reads like a VCR manual let me just toss this out...gutting is not allowed. Car "trim" must be in-tact except for stereo and carpets/floormats. Seats are legal, harnesses are legal, cage/hoops are legal, but you can't touch the dash unless you want to move to modified/open class.
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| Sean | 09-20-2002 11:33 AM |
For example, illegal:
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/02258-01-RallyPrep/640/111-1161_IMG.jpg[/IMG]
I have to put the door panels back on (the panels are off because I'm still prepping the car) before I run the Oct 6th rallycross.
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/Scrapbook/02258-01-RallyPrep/640/111-1161_IMG.jpg[/IMG]
I have to put the door panels back on (the panels are off because I'm still prepping the car) before I run the Oct 6th rallycross.
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| jprowland | 09-20-2002 11:58 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sean [/i]
[B]So, according to those supplimentals for that specific event, I have to move up to modified if I run rally tires and coilovers even though rally tires and coilovers are "Production" legal in "real" rally.[/B][/QUOTE]
Coil-overs are allowed if the car has them stock (e.g., stock Subaru Macpherson struts), coil-over conversions are not. Suspension rates are free, which means you could run a DMS 50mm suspension in stock class.
I think they mis-called Emilio Arse's 2.5rs cold-air intake at Gunstock. Regs say "free", but they interpreted it the same as Pro/Club Rally "free up to the airbox" and moved him to modified. I think he should have stayed in stock.
[B]So, according to those supplimentals for that specific event, I have to move up to modified if I run rally tires and coilovers even though rally tires and coilovers are "Production" legal in "real" rally.[/B][/QUOTE]
Coil-overs are allowed if the car has them stock (e.g., stock Subaru Macpherson struts), coil-over conversions are not. Suspension rates are free, which means you could run a DMS 50mm suspension in stock class.
I think they mis-called Emilio Arse's 2.5rs cold-air intake at Gunstock. Regs say "free", but they interpreted it the same as Pro/Club Rally "free up to the airbox" and moved him to modified. I think he should have stayed in stock.
| Sean | 09-20-2002 12:35 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jprowland [/i]
[B]Coil-overs are allowed if the car has them stock (e.g., stock Subaru Macpherson struts), coil-over conversions are not. Suspension rates are free, which means you could run a DMS 50mm suspension in stock class.[/B][/QUOTE]
OK, my bad. I interpreted that as, "coilovers are standard springs with an adjustable ring, the Impreza comes with non adjustable springs, therefore the Impreza with DMS50 or Moriss coilovers is a 'conversion'." So if I run DOT tires and Moriss coilovers I'm still Production legal? Whirred. :devil:
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[B]Coil-overs are allowed if the car has them stock (e.g., stock Subaru Macpherson struts), coil-over conversions are not. Suspension rates are free, which means you could run a DMS 50mm suspension in stock class.[/B][/QUOTE]
OK, my bad. I interpreted that as, "coilovers are standard springs with an adjustable ring, the Impreza comes with non adjustable springs, therefore the Impreza with DMS50 or Moriss coilovers is a 'conversion'." So if I run DOT tires and Moriss coilovers I'm still Production legal? Whirred. :devil:
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| jprowland | 09-20-2002 01:17 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sean [/i]
[B]
So if I run DOT tires and Moriss coilovers I'm still Production legal? Whirred. :devil:
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the way I interpret it...Moving from PGT should be as simple as removing any aftermarket ECU and running snow tires instead of rally tires. I don't know of any other significant differences.
[B]
So if I run DOT tires and Moriss coilovers I'm still Production legal? Whirred. :devil:
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the way I interpret it...Moving from PGT should be as simple as removing any aftermarket ECU and running snow tires instead of rally tires. I don't know of any other significant differences.
| Thug | 09-20-2002 01:32 PM |
Yeah, the key word is [b]adjustable[/b]. Most people call adjustable coilovers, well, coilovers. But our cars already have coilovers, just not adjustable.
| Sean | 09-20-2002 01:34 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by y2k4door [/i]
[B]Yeah, the key word is [b]adjustable[/b]. Most people call adjustable coilovers, well, coilovers. But our cars already have coilovers, just not adjustable. [/B][/QUOTE]
OK, sweet. I was told that the springs/struts that come on our cars are springs/struts and coilovers are, by definition, springs/struts with adjustable rings. Thanks for the clarification that coilover describes all springs/struts in our form factor. :D
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[B]Yeah, the key word is [b]adjustable[/b]. Most people call adjustable coilovers, well, coilovers. But our cars already have coilovers, just not adjustable. [/B][/QUOTE]
OK, sweet. I was told that the springs/struts that come on our cars are springs/struts and coilovers are, by definition, springs/struts with adjustable rings. Thanks for the clarification that coilover describes all springs/struts in our form factor. :D
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| motorhead16v4 | 09-20-2002 01:47 PM |
I'm glad that I don't have to go out and buy a roll cage right away...I know I'll want to, but a helmet and a car are the bare essentials. So, a Justy with a Rabbit GTI seat, turbo-style muffler, K&N filter, harness, and mudflaps ought to be a good starting point, I would think. You guys are great.
| Sean | 09-20-2002 01:54 PM |
Exactly. Any beater will do. Some of the guys from Chaos Motorsports who show up to the ice races (rallycross on frozen lakes) drive junkyard cars. :)
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| motorhead16v4 | 09-20-2002 02:25 PM |
Hey, could I get one of your trunkmonkeys? Would he adjust well to a hatchback though? Oh yeah and I'm not 21, so I can't buy him alcohol...
| Sean | 09-20-2002 02:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by motorhead16v4 [/i]
[B]Hey, could I get one of your trunkmonkeys? Would he adjust well to a hatchback though? Oh yeah and I'm not 21, so I can't buy him alcohol... [/B][/QUOTE]
For decals, head on over to [url]http://www.rallydecals.com/[/url] and check out the selection. ;) For the Trunkmonkey itself, Wild Republic monkeys are our choice...try Natural Wonders in your local mall or Toys R Us. :D
As far as a hatchback, no worries...our initial Trunkmonkey lived for three years in the hatch of my Outback Sport wagon! :D
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[B]Hey, could I get one of your trunkmonkeys? Would he adjust well to a hatchback though? Oh yeah and I'm not 21, so I can't buy him alcohol... [/B][/QUOTE]
For decals, head on over to [url]http://www.rallydecals.com/[/url] and check out the selection. ;) For the Trunkmonkey itself, Wild Republic monkeys are our choice...try Natural Wonders in your local mall or Toys R Us. :D
As far as a hatchback, no worries...our initial Trunkmonkey lived for three years in the hatch of my Outback Sport wagon! :D
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| jprowland | 09-20-2002 02:59 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by motorhead16v4 [/i]
[B]I'm glad that I don't have to go out and buy a roll cage right away...I know I'll want to, but a helmet and a car are the bare essentials. So, a Justy with a Rabbit GTI seat, turbo-style muffler, K&N filter, harness, and mudflaps ought to be a good starting point, I would think. You guys are great. [/B][/QUOTE]
Mud flaps are a great idea if you've already got 'em. Also, after you've got a couple Rally-xes under your belt, consider a skid plate. You can pick up a cheap 3/16" aluminum one for, say, $150-200, that's more than sufficient for rally-x. For real rallying, you'll need more like 3/8" alum (or kevlar if you can afford it! but then, if you've got a Justy, you probably can't ;) )
One of the guys in NER managed to put a massive dent in his skid plate at the first rally-x he ran after putting it on, you can only speculate as to what might have happened to his oil pan if he didn't have one. Obviously the skid plate sits lower to the ground, but who knows?
Keep it shiny side up...
[B]I'm glad that I don't have to go out and buy a roll cage right away...I know I'll want to, but a helmet and a car are the bare essentials. So, a Justy with a Rabbit GTI seat, turbo-style muffler, K&N filter, harness, and mudflaps ought to be a good starting point, I would think. You guys are great. [/B][/QUOTE]
Mud flaps are a great idea if you've already got 'em. Also, after you've got a couple Rally-xes under your belt, consider a skid plate. You can pick up a cheap 3/16" aluminum one for, say, $150-200, that's more than sufficient for rally-x. For real rallying, you'll need more like 3/8" alum (or kevlar if you can afford it! but then, if you've got a Justy, you probably can't ;) )
One of the guys in NER managed to put a massive dent in his skid plate at the first rally-x he ran after putting it on, you can only speculate as to what might have happened to his oil pan if he didn't have one. Obviously the skid plate sits lower to the ground, but who knows?
Keep it shiny side up...
| Sean | 09-20-2002 03:07 PM |
No, if he's running a Justy, he can afford ANYTHING because the Justy is so cheap! ;) [url]http://www.rumblesoftracing.com/[/url] is a good place for skid plates... :) They're Raccoon tested!
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| Subdued | 09-20-2002 11:37 PM |
For skidplates, also try [url]www.get-primitive.com[/url]
| motorhead16v4 | 09-21-2002 02:06 AM |
Heh heh...A racoon-tested skidplate-running Justy with a Trunkmonkey in the back...sounds like nothing can stop me... Thanks for all of your helpfulness; I found many sites with Justy specs on them...I'd say with the exhaust and K&N, it's possible to have close to a power-to-weight ratio of 23-24...Not too shabby, considering too much power off road might be a bad thing for a beginner...should get me where I need to go. 1845 lbs and 73 hp stock...people in Europe sure seem to love them. Now if I can find a Scoobie in South Dakota...people give me looks when I say "Mazda" or "Justy." I went to the bookstore today to see if I could find a book on RallyX...the book section read: Camaro performance...American Iron...Racing Mustangs...Detroit Iron...Camaro...Fast Camaros...Tuning Your Corvette... you get the idea.
| motorhead16v4 | 09-23-2002 10:15 AM |
Hey, guys another question. Are there schools where I can learn rally tecniques, or should I talk to someone at the track? Is Gran Tourismo on PS a good simulation? Any advice or hints would be appreciated. Thanks.
| jprowland | 09-23-2002 10:37 AM |
There's two established rally schools in the U.S., the more recommended one is Tim O'Neil's in New Hampshire ([url]http://www.teamoneil.com[/url]), but another very good school is Ivor Whigham's European Rally School in Florida ([url]http://www.gorally.com/[/url]). Both will set you back a pretty penny, but you will get the most out of these schools, including every penny's worth.
There are occasionally regional rally driving schools that pop up. For instance, Ski Sawmill Clubrally has in the past (and hopefully will return next year) run a driving school in conjunction with the rally. The average cost of one of these local 1-day schools is $200. Bridgestone runs a Winter driving school ([url]http://www.winterdrive.com/[/url]) in Colorado that is very close to rally driving; Tim O'Neil offers a similar 1-day "safety school" for $200 (or if you catch the I-Club/NESIC days, $150, but with a higher student-to-instructor ratio).
Don't underestimate the value of a road racing school in learning to drive rally. There are a lot more of these. The most comprehensive list I've found is at [url]http://www.goss.com/rrdrsch.htm.[/url] Skip Barber and Jim Russell's schools are the more well-known (and consequently, most expensive).
Perhaps my highest recommendation is to pay attention to race tracks that offer open track days through car clubs. SCDA is a big sponsoring club ([url]http://www.scda1.com[/url]), the Porsche and BMW clubs also like to do this. They usually run around $150-200 for a day of driving at a track with an instructor. Keep your eye open on I-club, they are often promoted here.
And go to every auto-x and rally-x within a day's drive...
There are occasionally regional rally driving schools that pop up. For instance, Ski Sawmill Clubrally has in the past (and hopefully will return next year) run a driving school in conjunction with the rally. The average cost of one of these local 1-day schools is $200. Bridgestone runs a Winter driving school ([url]http://www.winterdrive.com/[/url]) in Colorado that is very close to rally driving; Tim O'Neil offers a similar 1-day "safety school" for $200 (or if you catch the I-Club/NESIC days, $150, but with a higher student-to-instructor ratio).
Don't underestimate the value of a road racing school in learning to drive rally. There are a lot more of these. The most comprehensive list I've found is at [url]http://www.goss.com/rrdrsch.htm.[/url] Skip Barber and Jim Russell's schools are the more well-known (and consequently, most expensive).
Perhaps my highest recommendation is to pay attention to race tracks that offer open track days through car clubs. SCDA is a big sponsoring club ([url]http://www.scda1.com[/url]), the Porsche and BMW clubs also like to do this. They usually run around $150-200 for a day of driving at a track with an instructor. Keep your eye open on I-club, they are often promoted here.
And go to every auto-x and rally-x within a day's drive...
| Sean | 09-23-2002 10:40 AM |
For schools, check out [url]http://www.specialstage.com/[/url] and click on links. I run up at Team O'Neil ([url]http://www.teamoneil.com/[/url]).
Regarding driving simulations...they help a lot to learn vehicle dynamics before you get out on the track but, and I can't stress this enough, they are not even close to accurate. So, Gran Turismo 3 in rally mode with the Momo steering wheel will teach you that you need to countersteer or apply throttle in certain circumstances but it's not even close to accurate to teach you exactly when and how much to apply.
Team O'Neil has a winter driving school for $150 - $250 that is basically a softcore rally school. Most of the New England iClub guys do it each year and it's a great start. The full rally school is usually $2500 to $4500 depending on which course you take and how much damage you do to their car. ;)
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
Regarding driving simulations...they help a lot to learn vehicle dynamics before you get out on the track but, and I can't stress this enough, they are not even close to accurate. So, Gran Turismo 3 in rally mode with the Momo steering wheel will teach you that you need to countersteer or apply throttle in certain circumstances but it's not even close to accurate to teach you exactly when and how much to apply.
Team O'Neil has a winter driving school for $150 - $250 that is basically a softcore rally school. Most of the New England iClub guys do it each year and it's a great start. The full rally school is usually $2500 to $4500 depending on which course you take and how much damage you do to their car. ;)
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] There is no cone | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/~blogger/PGT-Impreza-L/]PGT Impreza L Rally Car[/URL] | [URL=http://www.rallynotes.com/]P Neon Rally Car[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/show.php?Article=3]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
| jprowland | 09-23-2002 10:59 AM |
I'd agree about driving "simulations." What they can let you do is try different things with the car to see how they'll respond, then go out in a real car to see how it really feels. Do they help? Some...but they're no replacement for seat time. 10 minutes on a skid pad is worth 10 hours in front of the TV.
GT, for the most part, does a good job of realistically modelling car physics. But, like Sean said, there's absolutely no feedback so you'll always be at a disadvantage. GT3 also, but I wouldn't trust the rally physics model. British Mobil 1 Rally does a much better job of making you feel like you're in a rally car. I have WRC for PS2, which I enjoy, nice driving response but lousy crash modeling. Colin McRae Rally 3 is due out in December, promises to be better driving than WRC.
Word on the street is the flat-out best rally "sim" is Rally Trophy, a vintage rally game (e.g., Datsun 510 and Opel Kadetts) available only on PC.
Sports Car magazine (SCCA publication) recently had a review on racing sims, in particular home-spun modifications on games like NASCAR which add in real SCCA cars and tracks. The general concensus was that they help you learn a real-life track and help you find a racing line that you can use as a baseline for finding the best line on the real track in a real car (which will be different), but not much useful for anything else. But, very valuable in memorizing a new track.
I would stay away from the GT games for the fact alone that they are addictive. You're always trying to earn more credits for that next ride. [i]Just one more car...[/i]. ;) You'll never even bother learning to drive a real car.
GT, for the most part, does a good job of realistically modelling car physics. But, like Sean said, there's absolutely no feedback so you'll always be at a disadvantage. GT3 also, but I wouldn't trust the rally physics model. British Mobil 1 Rally does a much better job of making you feel like you're in a rally car. I have WRC for PS2, which I enjoy, nice driving response but lousy crash modeling. Colin McRae Rally 3 is due out in December, promises to be better driving than WRC.
Word on the street is the flat-out best rally "sim" is Rally Trophy, a vintage rally game (e.g., Datsun 510 and Opel Kadetts) available only on PC.
Sports Car magazine (SCCA publication) recently had a review on racing sims, in particular home-spun modifications on games like NASCAR which add in real SCCA cars and tracks. The general concensus was that they help you learn a real-life track and help you find a racing line that you can use as a baseline for finding the best line on the real track in a real car (which will be different), but not much useful for anything else. But, very valuable in memorizing a new track.
I would stay away from the GT games for the fact alone that they are addictive. You're always trying to earn more credits for that next ride. [i]Just one more car...[/i]. ;) You'll never even bother learning to drive a real car.
| jprowland | 09-23-2002 11:05 AM |
And don't forget the cheapest rally school of all: snow-covered parking lots! This is where I've picked up 95% of my [albeit mediocre] driving ability. Just buy a decent set of _real_ snow tires, and stay away from the light poles! I've seen some sad sob stories on the NESIC posts from learning the hard way that snow increases your car's magnetic affinity to immovable metal objects :)
I carry a cell phone, tow rope, at least one full-sized spare, shovel, kitty litter, flares, and numerous other toys when I go out. This fall I'm going to invest in a set of orange cones. Maybe that'll help me weasel my way out when the officer shows up :p
I carry a cell phone, tow rope, at least one full-sized spare, shovel, kitty litter, flares, and numerous other toys when I go out. This fall I'm going to invest in a set of orange cones. Maybe that'll help me weasel my way out when the officer shows up :p
| motorhead16v4 | 09-23-2002 08:05 PM |
Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about GT too. I've learned a lot about lines and stuff, but I don't know how it FEELS. (well I do, but I didn't say that). I've learned a lot about car setup from that, my step dad, and my VW Sport Tuning book. I DO however live in South Dakota at the moment, so there's lots of snow up here...just make sure I don't wreck the Protege, unless I get my RallyX car before then--like I have money. Oh well. Thanks for all of your help. :D
| jprowland | 09-24-2002 09:28 AM |
I forgot to mention the one thing that you CAN learn from rally video games, if you're serious about becoming a rally driver...HOW TO LISTEN TO YOUR CO-DRIVER. Being able to listen to and trust your co-driver is a skill that means the difference between being a good driver and being a podium finisher.
This applies more to events that use detailed route books or stage notes, unlike many US Club rallies, which have only the more dangerous turns listed. Still, if you can trust that your co-driver will be calling only the sharper turns, then you can go faster knowing that what you can't see isn't that bad (still doesn't mean you can floor it, though!)
This applies more to events that use detailed route books or stage notes, unlike many US Club rallies, which have only the more dangerous turns listed. Still, if you can trust that your co-driver will be calling only the sharper turns, then you can go faster knowing that what you can't see isn't that bad (still doesn't mean you can floor it, though!)
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