| RB5 Clone | 11-11-2003 09:52 AM |
DMS alternatives
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Your options depend on your intended end use.
If you are building a dedicated caged rally car, go with DMS. No they'r enot cheap, but the first time you come flying over a blind crest and you have to somehow make surprise 90 left covered with water bars and potholes...the good struts will seem cheap by comparison. Building a car, spend most of your $$ on the cage and the suspension. All the other stuff is less important. DMS, Ohlins, Proflex--take your pick, open your wallet wide.
If you are aiming at doing rallyX or those notorioius "brisk TSDs" you have several options that aren't so cash-intensive. KYB AGX adjustable struts and a spring upgrade will transform your street car for less than $1000. Maybe you could go for GAB struts, etc.
Cheers, have fun spanking your car--that's what it was built for!
Dave G
If you are building a dedicated caged rally car, go with DMS. No they'r enot cheap, but the first time you come flying over a blind crest and you have to somehow make surprise 90 left covered with water bars and potholes...the good struts will seem cheap by comparison. Building a car, spend most of your $$ on the cage and the suspension. All the other stuff is less important. DMS, Ohlins, Proflex--take your pick, open your wallet wide.
If you are aiming at doing rallyX or those notorioius "brisk TSDs" you have several options that aren't so cash-intensive. KYB AGX adjustable struts and a spring upgrade will transform your street car for less than $1000. Maybe you could go for GAB struts, etc.
Cheers, have fun spanking your car--that's what it was built for!
Dave G
| akuhner | 11-11-2003 10:02 AM |
Apparently the Aussies make a spring for the V5 suspension that keeps the car at stock ride height or above it for rally purposes, I would have gone with that if I could have.
I had DMS on a street car and they didn't survive 4 months before the adjusters froze up, they aren't meant for street driving.
Now I have Tein HGs, which I love, but they also have a new cheaper rally suspension that I would try next. Do a search for my screen name in the suspension forum and you'll find my post on Teins. Totally worth the money, I beat the heck out of them, never service them, and the adjusters still turn like butter.
Alex
I had DMS on a street car and they didn't survive 4 months before the adjusters froze up, they aren't meant for street driving.
Now I have Tein HGs, which I love, but they also have a new cheaper rally suspension that I would try next. Do a search for my screen name in the suspension forum and you'll find my post on Teins. Totally worth the money, I beat the heck out of them, never service them, and the adjusters still turn like butter.
Alex
| ChrisW | 11-11-2003 10:13 AM |
The tein HG's are nice, but still almost as expensive as a DMS set.
| Subie Gal | 11-11-2003 10:53 AM |
[i]I would NEVER rally in Tein's....
i'd break em in one event... near guarantee :lol:[/i]
DMS are by far the best bang for the buck
as far as a 'true' rally suspension goes.
you will not find anything near their quality
for the price they're available at.
I've noticed especially here in the NW
when out of towners come out to rally....
if they have a lesser suspension,
9 outta 10 times, they DNF....
if you're looking at putting suspension
on a REAL rally car... you'd best save up
and get something tested and proven.
No strut spring combo will do if you're seriously pushing it.
hope this helps.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
[url]www.subiegalracing.com[/url]
i'd break em in one event... near guarantee :lol:[/i]
DMS are by far the best bang for the buck
as far as a 'true' rally suspension goes.
you will not find anything near their quality
for the price they're available at.
I've noticed especially here in the NW
when out of towners come out to rally....
if they have a lesser suspension,
9 outta 10 times, they DNF....
if you're looking at putting suspension
on a REAL rally car... you'd best save up
and get something tested and proven.
No strut spring combo will do if you're seriously pushing it.
hope this helps.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
[url]www.subiegalracing.com[/url]
| platypus | 11-11-2003 01:14 PM |
True dat, the DMS 50's are tough as nails, but they are expensive and do require regular maintainance/rebuilds (which can also add up in a hurry).
As was previously mentioned, the choices you should be looking at are going to vary depending on what you intend to do with the car.
Full-blown stage rallying? Get DMS or Tein TypeHG's (they're used by a lot of rally cars in japan) or Proflex via Rod Millen.
Rallycross, or Brisk dirt TSDs? Tein type Gravel would probably be a good, less expensive option. Based on experiences I've heard, I'd look away from the DMS 40mm struts.
Have fun!
:banana:
As was previously mentioned, the choices you should be looking at are going to vary depending on what you intend to do with the car.
Full-blown stage rallying? Get DMS or Tein TypeHG's (they're used by a lot of rally cars in japan) or Proflex via Rod Millen.
Rallycross, or Brisk dirt TSDs? Tein type Gravel would probably be a good, less expensive option. Based on experiences I've heard, I'd look away from the DMS 40mm struts.
Have fun!
:banana:
| tt_ttf | 11-11-2003 01:23 PM |
If it's for road or autox use, look at the new Whiteline coil overs - designed to compete with the DMS 40's
They don't suffer from some of the issues that DMS does - like not being designed for extended road use but are still just as adjustable.
I am not saying DMS is not the bee's knees but they really are designed for limited use and being serviced regularly and the 40's have not got a good history.
They don't suffer from some of the issues that DMS does - like not being designed for extended road use but are still just as adjustable.
I am not saying DMS is not the bee's knees but they really are designed for limited use and being serviced regularly and the 40's have not got a good history.
| akuhner | 11-11-2003 06:16 PM |
I'm sorry but DMS is not _that_ good. For the price they are very durable in a competition only rally car if you service them properly, but for still more cash the best is something along the lines of ProFlex.
The DMS on our team's rally car did survive a barrell roll down 300 yards of road with only one bent strut, but that took months to get repaired. Then at a Rally Sprint one of the rear braces cracked away from the body right on the weld! That was without any major incendent, although we did end up with a few bent wheels that day. Anyway, DMS not perfect (and SubieGal should make the disclaimer of being 'associated' with a major distributor of DMS before making any comments :p ).
The HGs were a little pricey, but their new setup is a lot more reasonable. [url]http://www.tein.com/grvdamp.html[/url]
Alex
The DMS on our team's rally car did survive a barrell roll down 300 yards of road with only one bent strut, but that took months to get repaired. Then at a Rally Sprint one of the rear braces cracked away from the body right on the weld! That was without any major incendent, although we did end up with a few bent wheels that day. Anyway, DMS not perfect (and SubieGal should make the disclaimer of being 'associated' with a major distributor of DMS before making any comments :p ).
The HGs were a little pricey, but their new setup is a lot more reasonable. [url]http://www.tein.com/grvdamp.html[/url]
Alex
| dch | 11-11-2003 11:23 PM |
Uhm, no offense intended, but...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by aspect [/i]
[B]... but hot damn is it expensive. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChrisW [/i]
[B]The tein HG's are nice, but still almost as expensive as a DMS set. [/B][/QUOTE]
You guys are funny. You don't even know expensive yet! Prodrive Ohlins retail for $22,500 for a set of 4. Yeah that's just crazy 200%+ markup on their part. Similar non-Prodrive 3-way adjustable Ohlins go for around $9,000 if you know where to look. DMS 60's will set you back at least $8,000 per set of 4. DMS is definitely the low-cost alternative in rally suspension with their 50's, and anything less than that is questionable depending on your driving style and how fast your car is. Well, also the type of car matters too of course (weight factor, and so on).
It's tough when you're first trying to get going because every time you turn around you're spending a bunch of money. However the amount you spend on quality, reliable components up front will mean less money spent on repairs in the future and ultimately you'll get more stage miles which means you'll improve faster, and of course go faster and break more stuff and have to spend more money on better parts and then you'll be just like the rest of us who spend all our discretionary income on driving fast through the woods. :D
Concentrate on reliability. Of course you can't spend outside your budget, but your first concern should be finishing. Of course if you spend so much on your suspension that you can't afford to go to the rally, then that "is not so good".
Cheers,
-Doug
#88 WRX STi
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by aspect [/i]
[B]... but hot damn is it expensive. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChrisW [/i]
[B]The tein HG's are nice, but still almost as expensive as a DMS set. [/B][/QUOTE]
You guys are funny. You don't even know expensive yet! Prodrive Ohlins retail for $22,500 for a set of 4. Yeah that's just crazy 200%+ markup on their part. Similar non-Prodrive 3-way adjustable Ohlins go for around $9,000 if you know where to look. DMS 60's will set you back at least $8,000 per set of 4. DMS is definitely the low-cost alternative in rally suspension with their 50's, and anything less than that is questionable depending on your driving style and how fast your car is. Well, also the type of car matters too of course (weight factor, and so on).
It's tough when you're first trying to get going because every time you turn around you're spending a bunch of money. However the amount you spend on quality, reliable components up front will mean less money spent on repairs in the future and ultimately you'll get more stage miles which means you'll improve faster, and of course go faster and break more stuff and have to spend more money on better parts and then you'll be just like the rest of us who spend all our discretionary income on driving fast through the woods. :D
Concentrate on reliability. Of course you can't spend outside your budget, but your first concern should be finishing. Of course if you spend so much on your suspension that you can't afford to go to the rally, then that "is not so good".
Cheers,
-Doug
#88 WRX STi
| ChrisW | 11-11-2003 11:45 PM |
well dch, I am not going to dispute what your saying, but I don't belive the guy is looking for a full blown rally setup...
If he is, then yeah, DMS 50's are the cheap stuff and I would recommend those over anything that Tein produces anyday of the week.
If he is, then yeah, DMS 50's are the cheap stuff and I would recommend those over anything that Tein produces anyday of the week.
| dch | 11-12-2003 03:23 AM |
Ahhh... Rallying on a student's budget. That's going to be tough. I have to say that I definitely do [b]not[/b] suggest rallying your daily driver unless you can walk to school and/or work when you roll it into a ditch. Because it [b]will[/b] happen, even if you do the smart thing and go see TimO first.[QUOTE]There are two types of rallyists: Those who [i]have[/i] rolled, and those who [i]will[/i].[/QUOTE]
It's simply a question of when you will make the transition. I know it sucks, but my advice to you is to wait until you can actually afford to buy a rally car and run it (the operation thereof can be as if not more expensive than the initial car purchase). Buying a used rally car will be cheaper than building one (ask all those before you who didn't believe the others who told them), and you'll have it quicker with a lot less work as well. You'll end up with all those parts you want for pennies on the dollar because that's just how it works. Save your money, and jump in when you can afford the car, the tires, the trailer, the tow vehicle, the hotel rooms for you and your crew, and so on and so on (it's quite the list, actually).
If you have to jump in before you can really afford to, talk to Randy Zimmer. He's done some phenomenal things with a next to nothing budget. And now that his arch nemesis has departed, hopefully we'll see him again at some of the upcoming events...
Cheers,
-Doug
It's simply a question of when you will make the transition. I know it sucks, but my advice to you is to wait until you can actually afford to buy a rally car and run it (the operation thereof can be as if not more expensive than the initial car purchase). Buying a used rally car will be cheaper than building one (ask all those before you who didn't believe the others who told them), and you'll have it quicker with a lot less work as well. You'll end up with all those parts you want for pennies on the dollar because that's just how it works. Save your money, and jump in when you can afford the car, the tires, the trailer, the tow vehicle, the hotel rooms for you and your crew, and so on and so on (it's quite the list, actually).
If you have to jump in before you can really afford to, talk to Randy Zimmer. He's done some phenomenal things with a next to nothing budget. And now that his arch nemesis has departed, hopefully we'll see him again at some of the upcoming events...
Cheers,
-Doug
| ProRallyEric | 11-12-2003 03:49 AM |
Just buy this instead of suspension:D
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/DCForumID14/1028.html[/url]
P.S. it's not mine or anything.
Eric
[url]http://franticfour.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/DCForumID14/1028.html[/url]
P.S. it's not mine or anything.
Eric
[url]http://franticfour.com/[/url]
| orbit03 | 11-12-2003 08:06 AM |
At SEMA, JIC Magic was showing some inverted struts for the Impreza. I didn't look at them too closely, but they looked pretty good. My brother has JIC stuff on his Talon and they are very nice on the road course, but I don't know how they would perfom on the dirt. They do have plenty of adjustability.
| akuhner | 11-12-2003 09:36 AM |
don't even plan on driving your car to and from events! we made that mistake our first time and proved the "roll rule" on the 3rd stage!
Alex
NC Rally
Alex
NC Rally
| ITWRX4ME | 11-12-2003 11:24 AM |
What about the Cusco Zero 2-R setup? Significantly less than the DMS. Has anyone put them through the ringer?
| Subie Gal | 11-12-2003 11:40 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Car #187 [/i]
[B]don't even plan on driving your car to and from events! we made that mistake our first time and proved the "roll rule" on the 3rd stage!
Alex
NC Rally [/B][/QUOTE]
whadddya mean?
i [i]still[/i] drive my rally car to most of the events :lol:
but i'm not all there am i.... :confused: :p
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
[B]don't even plan on driving your car to and from events! we made that mistake our first time and proved the "roll rule" on the 3rd stage!
Alex
NC Rally [/B][/QUOTE]
whadddya mean?
i [i]still[/i] drive my rally car to most of the events :lol:
but i'm not all there am i.... :confused: :p
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
| dch | 11-12-2003 12:23 PM |
Jamie, we all know you're just a little whacked... :) If the event is super close to you, and you know someone who can trailer your crumpled car home for you if it all goes pear-shaped, then I suppose it's OK to drive to the event. But if I remember correctly Jammies :p, you didn't drive your car to Ojibwe last year, did you?
Even if you bought WRC level components, stuff is still going to break when you hit something hard enough. Count on it. It's going to happen. If it doesn't, you're not going fast enough...
Randy trailered his rally car with a Legacy Wagon from coast to coast. I think he's insane but he said it wasn't that bad. Ahhh the good old days...
Cheers,
-Doug
[IMG]http://207.191.129.101/events/2003/stpr/crash/images/030607-150819w.jpg[/IMG]
Even if you bought WRC level components, stuff is still going to break when you hit something hard enough. Count on it. It's going to happen. If it doesn't, you're not going fast enough...
Randy trailered his rally car with a Legacy Wagon from coast to coast. I think he's insane but he said it wasn't that bad. Ahhh the good old days...
Cheers,
-Doug
[IMG]http://207.191.129.101/events/2003/stpr/crash/images/030607-150819w.jpg[/IMG]
| rallynutdon | 11-12-2003 01:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by platypus [/i]
[B]True dat, the DMS 50's are tough as nails, but they are expensive and do require regular maintainance/rebuilds (which can also add up in a hurry).
[/B][/QUOTE]
I ran DMS 50's for 3 years before having them serviced and the servicing cost was not that bad all thing considered. You do need to plan it (if possible) or hound the person servicing them to get timely service. I've had 2 incidents where the strut could have been damaged and the only issue was a bend adjuster and broken off breather!
[B]True dat, the DMS 50's are tough as nails, but they are expensive and do require regular maintainance/rebuilds (which can also add up in a hurry).
[/B][/QUOTE]
I ran DMS 50's for 3 years before having them serviced and the servicing cost was not that bad all thing considered. You do need to plan it (if possible) or hound the person servicing them to get timely service. I've had 2 incidents where the strut could have been damaged and the only issue was a bend adjuster and broken off breather!
| iceweazel | 11-14-2003 01:15 AM |
First off, spend all you can on safety. Then suspension, then whatever pennies are left put it into your tow setup. ;)
Power is useless without all these. Heck I've been as high as 6th overall in a US Pro rally in a stock motored RS. And I recall Zimmer once having a tied fastest stage time in his pgt car once. (ok well his "open" and pgt car were the same with a stock motor, but you get the idea)
Ok, I've rallied all over in the occasional sube, and for the $, DMS 50s are lower middle class in terms of cost, but probably dead-a$$ middle of the road for handling and beefy-ness.
If you can find a decent set of old Tokiko Dirtas' we used to run those on the legacys to great results, but they are more to the lower end of acceptable modern rally suspension. However they were rebuildable and were fairly inexpensive in comparison.
Does GAB still make their low end rally suspension for sube?
Not bad. not great though either.
I think HotBits was making some middle to lower end rally stuff, but I recall the Canadian guys telling me it was definately a little whimpier than they liked. Might ask around on specialstage.com. or better yet email Pete Reily over at Motorsport-dist.com and ask. I'm sure he can give you the skinny on them. I recall he went over to Malaysia to check out their operation. Not sure if hes running them on the focus though.
Who else? Uh... Spax and TAS (trans auto sport UK) used to have sube suspension. email the tweekies (Demontweeks) and see what they have. They sell piles of Clubman (low->middle-|) quality rally suspension and bits. Though if you were in the UK there are cheaper places, they have decent carriage (shipping) and I've had very very good service to the states from them. I think the TAS kits were bilstein competitions and ?suplex coil over setups.
I recall some talk about a couple of Scandanavian companies
planning to sell rally suspension over here, but haven't heard much. Might ask around on specialstage.com
Not sure if you can get Flatt's outside Japan (or Holland?) anymore. But they made a wrx and an older legacy setup. More towards a DMS cost. Might be out of biz though. Heard zip for a while.
Moving up you have Leda, Ohlins, robbing banks for fun and profit, burning money for the hell of it, then Proflex, etc.
And for the record, randys' trailer weighs about 25lbs. And it is SCARY. Have you ever seen it Doug? And I think he runs some insane pressure plate and one of Eklunds old rally clutches in the wagon. Been there, ridden in that. DNFed and dragged it home with it.
Yeah we all know Jamie is wacked, I mean she actually likes Burns. ;) He's such a prat. PM or catch me at an event for details.
Ed W
-the rally ho has spoken
instead of points in _every_ class this year, I went for points in both driving and co-driving. wheee!!! Gotta keep those scorekeepers on their toes. ;)
Power is useless without all these. Heck I've been as high as 6th overall in a US Pro rally in a stock motored RS. And I recall Zimmer once having a tied fastest stage time in his pgt car once. (ok well his "open" and pgt car were the same with a stock motor, but you get the idea)
Ok, I've rallied all over in the occasional sube, and for the $, DMS 50s are lower middle class in terms of cost, but probably dead-a$$ middle of the road for handling and beefy-ness.
If you can find a decent set of old Tokiko Dirtas' we used to run those on the legacys to great results, but they are more to the lower end of acceptable modern rally suspension. However they were rebuildable and were fairly inexpensive in comparison.
Does GAB still make their low end rally suspension for sube?
Not bad. not great though either.
I think HotBits was making some middle to lower end rally stuff, but I recall the Canadian guys telling me it was definately a little whimpier than they liked. Might ask around on specialstage.com. or better yet email Pete Reily over at Motorsport-dist.com and ask. I'm sure he can give you the skinny on them. I recall he went over to Malaysia to check out their operation. Not sure if hes running them on the focus though.
Who else? Uh... Spax and TAS (trans auto sport UK) used to have sube suspension. email the tweekies (Demontweeks) and see what they have. They sell piles of Clubman (low->middle-|) quality rally suspension and bits. Though if you were in the UK there are cheaper places, they have decent carriage (shipping) and I've had very very good service to the states from them. I think the TAS kits were bilstein competitions and ?suplex coil over setups.
I recall some talk about a couple of Scandanavian companies
planning to sell rally suspension over here, but haven't heard much. Might ask around on specialstage.com
Not sure if you can get Flatt's outside Japan (or Holland?) anymore. But they made a wrx and an older legacy setup. More towards a DMS cost. Might be out of biz though. Heard zip for a while.
Moving up you have Leda, Ohlins, robbing banks for fun and profit, burning money for the hell of it, then Proflex, etc.
And for the record, randys' trailer weighs about 25lbs. And it is SCARY. Have you ever seen it Doug? And I think he runs some insane pressure plate and one of Eklunds old rally clutches in the wagon. Been there, ridden in that. DNFed and dragged it home with it.
Yeah we all know Jamie is wacked, I mean she actually likes Burns. ;) He's such a prat. PM or catch me at an event for details.
Ed W
-the rally ho has spoken
instead of points in _every_ class this year, I went for points in both driving and co-driving. wheee!!! Gotta keep those scorekeepers on their toes. ;)
| dch | 11-14-2003 09:46 AM |
I've seen photos of it, Ed, but not up close and in person. I can only imagine it would be quite the handful coming through the mountains down into the Seattle area. :eek:
You going to Ice*Rink Ed?
Cheers,
-Doug
You going to Ice*Rink Ed?
Cheers,
-Doug
| randy zimmer | 11-14-2003 04:57 PM |
cheap enough for you?
�
�
Shindle and I ran Cherokee on stock Forester struts and lived, we had to slow down and time the woops but they made it and we won both Club events too. I think we ran them at Sandblast and maybe somewhere else too while waiting for the DMS.
I bought the car with them on it and the owner showed me a mountain of used shocks in boxes, "buy new shock every rally" he said. In my research, it showed he finished (last, or close it) every rally he entered except for the one the car overheated and blew up on. Apparently there was never a shock-related DNF.
Some quick math showed buying stock shocks every rally would add up to a set of DMS pretty quick and I know that without them, I would have crashed more than I have and crashes are expensive.
Good thing about the stock ones is they don't allow you to go fast enough to break them, lots of warning signs before you overstep the limit.
By the way, I never replaced the stock ones, just ran 'em until the DMS came.
DMS went 2 years and 30 events before they needed rebuilding but now I'm going quicker and they may need more attention.
---
2.2 wagon needed clutch slip but the GT 2.5 wagon pulls great with the stock clutch and for some reason has more front weight so it stops better than the '94.
rz
I bought the car with them on it and the owner showed me a mountain of used shocks in boxes, "buy new shock every rally" he said. In my research, it showed he finished (last, or close it) every rally he entered except for the one the car overheated and blew up on. Apparently there was never a shock-related DNF.
Some quick math showed buying stock shocks every rally would add up to a set of DMS pretty quick and I know that without them, I would have crashed more than I have and crashes are expensive.
Good thing about the stock ones is they don't allow you to go fast enough to break them, lots of warning signs before you overstep the limit.
By the way, I never replaced the stock ones, just ran 'em until the DMS came.
DMS went 2 years and 30 events before they needed rebuilding but now I'm going quicker and they may need more attention.
---
2.2 wagon needed clutch slip but the GT 2.5 wagon pulls great with the stock clutch and for some reason has more front weight so it stops better than the '94.
rz
| randy zimmer | 11-15-2003 06:00 PM |
Rally America
�
�
Hi Doug,
Even tho I haven't taken advantage of it, I appreciate what you're doing with RA. With that foreigner-loving sticker-nazi out of there, there has to be an opportunity to make meaningful progress in rally that'll help promote North American drivers instead of chasing them away in the name of "professionalism".
rz
Even tho I haven't taken advantage of it, I appreciate what you're doing with RA. With that foreigner-loving sticker-nazi out of there, there has to be an opportunity to make meaningful progress in rally that'll help promote North American drivers instead of chasing them away in the name of "professionalism".
rz
| Porter | 12-14-2003 02:47 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by iceweazel [/i]
[B]Not sure if you can get Flatt's outside Japan (or Holland?) anymore. But they made a wrx and an older legacy setup. More towards a DMS cost. Might be out of biz though. Heard zip for a while.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Flatt is still in existence but they were having their stuff designed and manufactured by Aragosta, a suspension design firm out of the Netherlands. Aragosta is currently only serving the North American market through a tiny snowmobile shock distributor in Canada, and have ignored my requests for information on the Aragosta/Flatt SVX system. I believe their core competency is design rather than manufacture, I believe they do a lot of strut design work for major players like Koni and Bilstein.
I think it's safe to consider them a non-option.
[B]Not sure if you can get Flatt's outside Japan (or Holland?) anymore. But they made a wrx and an older legacy setup. More towards a DMS cost. Might be out of biz though. Heard zip for a while.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Flatt is still in existence but they were having their stuff designed and manufactured by Aragosta, a suspension design firm out of the Netherlands. Aragosta is currently only serving the North American market through a tiny snowmobile shock distributor in Canada, and have ignored my requests for information on the Aragosta/Flatt SVX system. I believe their core competency is design rather than manufacture, I believe they do a lot of strut design work for major players like Koni and Bilstein.
I think it's safe to consider them a non-option.
| Davenow | 12-15-2003 06:46 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ITWRX4ME [/i]
[B]What about the Cusco Zero 2-R setup? Significantly less than the DMS. Has anyone put them through the ringer? [/B][/QUOTE]
Street/track coilovers. not built for rally.
CHeap? Tein gravelspecs are like 1500 total
[B]What about the Cusco Zero 2-R setup? Significantly less than the DMS. Has anyone put them through the ringer? [/B][/QUOTE]
Street/track coilovers. not built for rally.
CHeap? Tein gravelspecs are like 1500 total
| akuhner | 12-15-2003 09:20 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B]CHeap? Tein gravelspecs are like 1500 total [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, that's cheap. If you pay less for coilovers they are probably pretty marginal in terms of performance and reliability...
[B]CHeap? Tein gravelspecs are like 1500 total [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, that's cheap. If you pay less for coilovers they are probably pretty marginal in terms of performance and reliability...
| DMS North America | 12-15-2003 09:58 AM |
interesting ...
�
�
hmm interesting post....
DCH>>> is your car ready for SnoDrift ??? I finally got a hold of some group A wheels if you are still looking.... it took awhile to get some new ones. I found some used ones (silver) new gold, silver, or white.
95% of any shockabsorber in the WORLD as far as performance, durability is concerned in competition use there are only two comparable companies. Units double the price still do not compare. As DCH mentioned, one heck of a price gap though... about 12k easy.
As for maintenance, any competition or competition `little brother` like the 40mm, will need maintenance, just depends on how you use it. And for parts, service, etc, that is what the new service centers are hear for !!
Regards,
Mark
DCH>>> is your car ready for SnoDrift ??? I finally got a hold of some group A wheels if you are still looking.... it took awhile to get some new ones. I found some used ones (silver) new gold, silver, or white.
95% of any shockabsorber in the WORLD as far as performance, durability is concerned in competition use there are only two comparable companies. Units double the price still do not compare. As DCH mentioned, one heck of a price gap though... about 12k easy.
As for maintenance, any competition or competition `little brother` like the 40mm, will need maintenance, just depends on how you use it. And for parts, service, etc, that is what the new service centers are hear for !!
Regards,
Mark
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