| satrya | 05-15-2004 10:51 PM |
oem vs clear sidemarker (my2002-2003 impreza)
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Discussions about clear sidemarkers for the my2002-2003 impreza shows up every now and then, in spite of the fact that the my2002-2003 is no longer the latest body model.
I recently purchased a set of clear sidemarkers labeled as Type1 (numeric labeling used here for convenience only) in the picture below. All 5 were found in eBay, and are priced in the neighborhood of US$20 (before shipping & taxes). The following are the main points I want to share after taking a closer look and using the Type1 for some time, and additional information given by respondents of this thread on possibly other types.
[B][U]Type 1[/U][/B]
(1) As some have indicated, there is a minor melting of one of its parts. It didn't affect functionality.
(2) When lighted, the clear sidemarkers are no dimmer than the oem orange sidemarkers.
(3) As a retroreflector, the oem sidemarkers perform better.
(4) The bulb holder is different from oem, hence cutting the original wiring is necessary (See post#21)
[B][U]Type 2[/U][/B]
No data.
[B][U]Type 3[/U][/B]
{According to feedback from MikeWRX-NJ (14 posts down) & Uncle Ben (20 posts down)}
(1) ?
(2) Similar/somewhat better brightness than oem
(3) Worse than oem as a retroreflector
(4) The bulb holder is compatible with the oem, hence cutting the original wiring can be avoided by swapping the oem holder.
[B][U]Type 4[/U][/B]
No data.
[B][U]Type 5[/U][/B]
No data.
[U]Note 1[/U]: Looks aside, imho lower retroreflectivity means that they are inferior to the oem from a safety point of view. This can be remedied either by spraying the lens with a clear retroreflective paint (e.g. Krylon has a product called "Reflect-a-lite" in a spray can) or complementing the sidemarkers with a retroreflective tape.
[U]Note 2[/U]: For a given type, there may be more than one manufacturer. Results may vary.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker001b.jpg[/IMG]
I recently purchased a set of clear sidemarkers labeled as Type1 (numeric labeling used here for convenience only) in the picture below. All 5 were found in eBay, and are priced in the neighborhood of US$20 (before shipping & taxes). The following are the main points I want to share after taking a closer look and using the Type1 for some time, and additional information given by respondents of this thread on possibly other types.
[B][U]Type 1[/U][/B]
(1) As some have indicated, there is a minor melting of one of its parts. It didn't affect functionality.
(2) When lighted, the clear sidemarkers are no dimmer than the oem orange sidemarkers.
(3) As a retroreflector, the oem sidemarkers perform better.
(4) The bulb holder is different from oem, hence cutting the original wiring is necessary (See post#21)
[B][U]Type 2[/U][/B]
No data.
[B][U]Type 3[/U][/B]
{According to feedback from MikeWRX-NJ (14 posts down) & Uncle Ben (20 posts down)}
(1) ?
(2) Similar/somewhat better brightness than oem
(3) Worse than oem as a retroreflector
(4) The bulb holder is compatible with the oem, hence cutting the original wiring can be avoided by swapping the oem holder.
[B][U]Type 4[/U][/B]
No data.
[B][U]Type 5[/U][/B]
No data.
[U]Note 1[/U]: Looks aside, imho lower retroreflectivity means that they are inferior to the oem from a safety point of view. This can be remedied either by spraying the lens with a clear retroreflective paint (e.g. Krylon has a product called "Reflect-a-lite" in a spray can) or complementing the sidemarkers with a retroreflective tape.
[U]Note 2[/U]: For a given type, there may be more than one manufacturer. Results may vary.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker001b.jpg[/IMG]
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:07 PM |
The 5 types and the issue of reflection
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There is a nice short writeup about the different types of reflection in 3M's site:
[url]http://www.3m.com/us/safety/tcm/education/reflection-tech.jhtml[/url]
Based on that site, reflection is divided into 3 types:
(1) diffuse reflection--> light is scattered in all directions
(2) mirror reflection --> light is reflected off the surface at an equal but opposite angle
(3) retroreflection --> light is reflected back to the source
The orange cover of the oem sidemarker has a strong retroreflective property thanks to the prismatic shapes on the inner side of the orange cover. This means that even if the sidemarker bulb is not lighted, light from oncoming traffic will be reflected back to the driver of that vehicle. Very important safety feature imho.
The first 3 types in the picture above has a chrome reflector in the inside (Types1,2,3), and curved shapes on the inner side of the clear lens (Types 1 & 2). These scatter light in the same manner as the rear turn signal units in many new model vehicles (my2004 impreza wagons for example).
The last 2 types seem to have the prismatic/cubic stack surface similar to the oem orange sidemarkers. These probably would fare better from a safety point of view.
[url]http://www.3m.com/us/safety/tcm/education/reflection-tech.jhtml[/url]
Based on that site, reflection is divided into 3 types:
(1) diffuse reflection--> light is scattered in all directions
(2) mirror reflection --> light is reflected off the surface at an equal but opposite angle
(3) retroreflection --> light is reflected back to the source
The orange cover of the oem sidemarker has a strong retroreflective property thanks to the prismatic shapes on the inner side of the orange cover. This means that even if the sidemarker bulb is not lighted, light from oncoming traffic will be reflected back to the driver of that vehicle. Very important safety feature imho.
The first 3 types in the picture above has a chrome reflector in the inside (Types1,2,3), and curved shapes on the inner side of the clear lens (Types 1 & 2). These scatter light in the same manner as the rear turn signal units in many new model vehicles (my2004 impreza wagons for example).
The last 2 types seem to have the prismatic/cubic stack surface similar to the oem orange sidemarkers. These probably would fare better from a safety point of view.
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:10 PM |
Yellow tinted
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As an aside, here is the Type1 installed, after tinted light yellow. Visually, I think it looks better than the orange sidemarkers on a blaze yellow paint. The yellow sidemarkers still look amber especially when lighted, so afaik, they are still legal. It probably looks nice on a sonic yellow (my2003) as well.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker001.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker007.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker001.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker007.jpg[/IMG]
| Brad Nely | 05-15-2004 11:10 PM |
And most important point, they all look stupid, except type 5.
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:14 PM |
Melted part
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Picture below shows the light bulb holder when the sidemarkers are new. There are 3 tabs (circled green) that locks the holder to the sidemarker housing. The tabs do not seem to be compatible with the oem housing, so the oem bulb holder cannot fit the clear sidemarker housing, at least for the unit I purchased.
After some use, the tabs deform due to heat + stress. This makes the bulb holder fit a bit loose, but not loose enough to be a problem. After the initial deformation, it seems to stay in that shape permanently.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker001c.jpg[/IMG]
After some use, the tabs deform due to heat + stress. This makes the bulb holder fit a bit loose, but not loose enough to be a problem. After the initial deformation, it seems to stay in that shape permanently.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker001c.jpg[/IMG]
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:19 PM |
Close-up of Type1 vs oem
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Type 1 is compared to the oem in the picture below. The clear sidemarkers comes with a plain wire (green circle). I added connectors on the oem (blue circle). Orange bulbs are shown in the clear sidemarkers here (dark blue circle).
The left side insert shows the Type1, and where the reflectors are with respect to the bulb and clear cover.
The right insert illustrates the retroreflective nature of the oems.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker002.jpg[/IMG]
The left side insert shows the Type1, and where the reflectors are with respect to the bulb and clear cover.
The right insert illustrates the retroreflective nature of the oems.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker002.jpg[/IMG]
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:23 PM |
Lighted
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The picture below shows the clear sidemarkers with orange bulbs lighted. Some other lights are shown for comparison. They perform just fine when lighted.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker005.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker005.jpg[/IMG]
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:29 PM |
Lighted vs retroreflector
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The picture below was taken with camera flash, as indicated by the retroreflector of the nearby Durango. The sidemarkers are visible because the bulbs are lighted.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker006.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker006.jpg[/IMG]
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:31 PM |
Unlighted
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The picture below shows the sidemarkers weak retroreflective property. The camera flash is reflected back, but not terribly strongly.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker004.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker004.jpg[/IMG]
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:38 PM |
Diffuse reflection
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The weak retroreflective property agrees with the picture below, where the oem orange and the clear sidemarkers are put side-by-side, and the picture is taken without flash. There is ambien light primarily entering from the right hand side.
The clear sidemarker reflects more of this light due to its higher diffuse reflectitivy.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker003.jpg[/IMG]
The clear sidemarker reflects more of this light due to its higher diffuse reflectitivy.
[IMG]http://mechatro2.me.berkeley.edu/~satrya/pics/photos/yellowsidemarker/marker003.jpg[/IMG]
| satrya | 05-15-2004 11:50 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Brad Nely [/i]
[B]And most important point, they all look stupid, except type 5. [/B][/QUOTE]
Subjective opinion was not my intention. For those that are interested, I simply wanted to point out that the main shortcoming, instead of the melting issue, is that the retroreflective property of the type that I got is poorer than the oems. It may or may not be an important issue for everyone, but safety, visibility, and legality are very important for me.
[B]And most important point, they all look stupid, except type 5. [/B][/QUOTE]
Subjective opinion was not my intention. For those that are interested, I simply wanted to point out that the main shortcoming, instead of the melting issue, is that the retroreflective property of the type that I got is poorer than the oems. It may or may not be an important issue for everyone, but safety, visibility, and legality are very important for me.
| vadim | 05-16-2004 12:32 AM |
wow, thats a lot of research for $20 side markers! So bottom line is? They suck?
| sirbryanclark | 05-16-2004 04:27 AM |
what about the carbon fiber ones?
| Samirr76 | 05-16-2004 09:14 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sirbryanclark [/i]
[B]what about the carbon fiber ones? [/B][/QUOTE]
you're missing the point of this thread :rolleyes:
[B]what about the carbon fiber ones? [/B][/QUOTE]
you're missing the point of this thread :rolleyes:
| MikeWRX-NJ | 05-16-2004 10:17 AM |
i will vote for oem. i've had type 3 and they sucked in everything they did. looked bad, fit bad, only good thing was they let a lot of light out.
i have the white oem, not the smoked "gray" ones. I dremeled out the back to fit the oem bulb holder and at night with the parking lights on, it's just as bright as stock. i used an orange bulb instead of the clear one though. i also wired them to blink alternately with my blinkers b/c i have morrettes and i felt they didnt offer enough side visibility.
as far oem goes, looks A+, fit A+, safety w/orange bulbs A
i have the white oem, not the smoked "gray" ones. I dremeled out the back to fit the oem bulb holder and at night with the parking lights on, it's just as bright as stock. i used an orange bulb instead of the clear one though. i also wired them to blink alternately with my blinkers b/c i have morrettes and i felt they didnt offer enough side visibility.
as far oem goes, looks A+, fit A+, safety w/orange bulbs A
| satrya | 05-16-2004 10:25 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by vadim [/i]
[B]wow, thats a lot of research for $20 side markers![/B][/QUOTE]
It's the other way around. Because it is relatively inexpensive, I'm willing to buy & give them a try. Since I have one, why not share my findings.
[QUOTE][B]So bottom line is? They suck? [/B][/QUOTE]
That depends.
(1) If carbon side markers (be it the STi type or the vented Zerosports type) is ok for you, or, equivalently, if retroreflectivity is not important at all:
Whether $20 is worth it or not depends on whether you like the design. Installed, imho, the fitment quality looks ok.
(2) If retroreflectivity is very important, then I must say that it is inferior to the oem orange ones. The Type4&5 may be closer to oem. As I stated, the Type1 I got has a bigger diffuse reflectivity, which is good in spreading the light from the bulb, but not in returning headlight beams back to the driver.
Anyone concerned with #2 could remedy this shortcoming by spraying the retroreflective clear paint I mentioned above (about US$11 per can) or retroreflective sticker as a complement.
[B]wow, thats a lot of research for $20 side markers![/B][/QUOTE]
It's the other way around. Because it is relatively inexpensive, I'm willing to buy & give them a try. Since I have one, why not share my findings.
[QUOTE][B]So bottom line is? They suck? [/B][/QUOTE]
That depends.
(1) If carbon side markers (be it the STi type or the vented Zerosports type) is ok for you, or, equivalently, if retroreflectivity is not important at all:
Whether $20 is worth it or not depends on whether you like the design. Installed, imho, the fitment quality looks ok.
(2) If retroreflectivity is very important, then I must say that it is inferior to the oem orange ones. The Type4&5 may be closer to oem. As I stated, the Type1 I got has a bigger diffuse reflectivity, which is good in spreading the light from the bulb, but not in returning headlight beams back to the driver.
Anyone concerned with #2 could remedy this shortcoming by spraying the retroreflective clear paint I mentioned above (about US$11 per can) or retroreflective sticker as a complement.
| satrya | 05-16-2004 10:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MikeWRX-NJ [/i]
[B]i will vote for oem. i've had type 3 and they sucked in everything they did. looked bad, fit bad, only good thing was they let a lot of light out.[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing more data. In that respect, it seems to be similar to the Type1 I have. The chrome reflector and clear lens does a better job distributing light from the bulb to all directions.
[QUOTE][B]
i have the white oem, not the smoked "gray" ones. I dremeled out the back to fit the oem bulb holder and at night with the parking lights on, it's just as bright as stock.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I know which one you mean. I only know of 1 oem type, that is the smoked grey that comes as a set with the oval side reflector incompatible with the USDM impreza. The one that subydude carries.
Do you mean the SAA brand (shown below)?
[IMG]http://www.japanparts.com/Pic/pic078/015-001.jpg[/IMG]
[B]i will vote for oem. i've had type 3 and they sucked in everything they did. looked bad, fit bad, only good thing was they let a lot of light out.[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing more data. In that respect, it seems to be similar to the Type1 I have. The chrome reflector and clear lens does a better job distributing light from the bulb to all directions.
[QUOTE][B]
i have the white oem, not the smoked "gray" ones. I dremeled out the back to fit the oem bulb holder and at night with the parking lights on, it's just as bright as stock.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I know which one you mean. I only know of 1 oem type, that is the smoked grey that comes as a set with the oval side reflector incompatible with the USDM impreza. The one that subydude carries.
Do you mean the SAA brand (shown below)?
[IMG]http://www.japanparts.com/Pic/pic078/015-001.jpg[/IMG]
| MikeWRX-NJ | 05-16-2004 01:16 PM |
could be those, i'm an idiot what's SAA? :o
| satrya | 05-16-2004 04:10 PM |
SAA= Subaru Auto Accessory
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MikeWRX-NJ [/i]
[B]what's SAA?[/B][/QUOTE]
[B]S[/B]ubaru [B]A[/B]uto [B]A[/B]ccessory
I don't think they are strincly part of Suparu of Japan, but there is an SAA weblink from the SOJ site.
The link eventually points out to:
[url]http://www.sss.ne.jp/saa/menu.htm[/url]
The "sss" in that url being an acronym for "Subaru System Service".
Here is the link to that particular sidemarker lineup:
[url]http://www.sss.ne.jp/saa/accessories/komado/exteria/side_turn_marker.htm[/url]
[B]what's SAA?[/B][/QUOTE]
[B]S[/B]ubaru [B]A[/B]uto [B]A[/B]ccessory
I don't think they are strincly part of Suparu of Japan, but there is an SAA weblink from the SOJ site.
The link eventually points out to:
[url]http://www.sss.ne.jp/saa/menu.htm[/url]
The "sss" in that url being an acronym for "Subaru System Service".
Here is the link to that particular sidemarker lineup:
[url]http://www.sss.ne.jp/saa/accessories/komado/exteria/side_turn_marker.htm[/url]
| chewbakarox | 05-16-2004 06:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MikeWRX-NJ [/i]
[B]i will vote for oem. i've had type 3 and they sucked in everything they did. looked bad, fit bad, only good thing was they let a lot of light out.
i have the white oem, not the smoked "gray" ones. I dremeled out the back to fit the oem bulb holder and at night with the parking lights on, it's just as bright as stock. i used an orange bulb instead of the clear one though. i also wired them to blink alternately with my blinkers b/c i have morrettes and i felt they didnt offer enough side visibility.
as far oem goes, looks A+, fit A+, safety w/orange bulbs A [/B][/QUOTE]
I second MikeWRX. I also bought the OEM clear blinkers from subydude and am very happy with them. I have not experience with ebay-type blinkers, but the fitment/look of the OEM's are worth every penny IMHO!
[B]i will vote for oem. i've had type 3 and they sucked in everything they did. looked bad, fit bad, only good thing was they let a lot of light out.
i have the white oem, not the smoked "gray" ones. I dremeled out the back to fit the oem bulb holder and at night with the parking lights on, it's just as bright as stock. i used an orange bulb instead of the clear one though. i also wired them to blink alternately with my blinkers b/c i have morrettes and i felt they didnt offer enough side visibility.
as far oem goes, looks A+, fit A+, safety w/orange bulbs A [/B][/QUOTE]
I second MikeWRX. I also bought the OEM clear blinkers from subydude and am very happy with them. I have not experience with ebay-type blinkers, but the fitment/look of the OEM's are worth every penny IMHO!
| Uncle Ben | 05-16-2004 06:54 PM |
You should indicate which types require splicing into the factory wiring harness and which do not...
I've owned both Type 1 that DOES require splicing as shown in the pic with its own bulb holder, and Type 3 that accepts the factory bulb holder. IMO I would not purchase another set that didn't work with the factory wiring.
I've owned both Type 1 that DOES require splicing as shown in the pic with its own bulb holder, and Type 3 that accepts the factory bulb holder. IMO I would not purchase another set that didn't work with the factory wiring.
| satrya | 05-16-2004 07:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Uncle Ben [/i]
[B]You should indicate which types require splicing into the factory wiring harness and which do not...[/B][/QUOTE]
Interesting point. I didn't think it was important because I had previously modified my wiring so that I could switch between 2 connectors: one for the original wiring, and another for the sidemarker--> turn signal mod.
I'll see if I can edit my earlier post(s) to incorporate that.
Thanks for your feedback.
[B]You should indicate which types require splicing into the factory wiring harness and which do not...[/B][/QUOTE]
Interesting point. I didn't think it was important because I had previously modified my wiring so that I could switch between 2 connectors: one for the original wiring, and another for the sidemarker--> turn signal mod.
I'll see if I can edit my earlier post(s) to incorporate that.
Thanks for your feedback.
| sirbryanclark | 05-16-2004 10:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Samirr76 [/i]
[B]you're missing the point of this thread :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
sorry...
[B]you're missing the point of this thread :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
sorry...
| MikeWRX-NJ | 05-16-2004 10:33 PM |
yea i'm pretty sure those are the ones i have. again, very happy with them. :)
| Uncle Ben | 05-17-2004 05:42 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by satrya [/i]
[B]Interesting point. I didn't think it was important because I had previously modified my wiring so that I could switch between 2 connectors: one for the original wiring, and another for the sidemarker--> turn signal mod.
I'll see if I can edit my earlier post(s) to incorporate that.
Thanks for your feedback. [/B][/QUOTE]
Np! Just thought it might be a good heads up for ppl reading a review that may influence their purchasing decision...
Personally I ended up going with the JDM reflectors that don't even take a bulb period so it no longer affects me :P
[B]Interesting point. I didn't think it was important because I had previously modified my wiring so that I could switch between 2 connectors: one for the original wiring, and another for the sidemarker--> turn signal mod.
I'll see if I can edit my earlier post(s) to incorporate that.
Thanks for your feedback. [/B][/QUOTE]
Np! Just thought it might be a good heads up for ppl reading a review that may influence their purchasing decision...
Personally I ended up going with the JDM reflectors that don't even take a bulb period so it no longer affects me :P
| eurojax | 05-17-2004 05:51 AM |
This thread made me laugh.
But I got to hand it to satrya, you definitely know how to research and conduct experiments and display your findings in a scientific way.
But I got to hand it to satrya, you definitely know how to research and conduct experiments and display your findings in a scientific way.
| satrya | 05-17-2004 10:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by eurojax [/i]
[B]This thread made me laugh.[/B][/QUOTE]
Why?
[QUOTE][B]But I got to hand it to satrya, you definitely know how to research and conduct experiments and display your findings in a scientific way. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks? Imho, the info I posted are the kind of things I would have liked to know before making a purchase (but I didn't). There are many existing posts discussing the subjective appearance of the clear sidemarkers as well as the fitment/melting issues. I don't recall reading anything about the retroreflective functionality and how well they light up. Hence this thread.
[B]This thread made me laugh.[/B][/QUOTE]
Why?
[QUOTE][B]But I got to hand it to satrya, you definitely know how to research and conduct experiments and display your findings in a scientific way. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks? Imho, the info I posted are the kind of things I would have liked to know before making a purchase (but I didn't). There are many existing posts discussing the subjective appearance of the clear sidemarkers as well as the fitment/melting issues. I don't recall reading anything about the retroreflective functionality and how well they light up. Hence this thread.
| NeoteriX | 05-17-2004 10:30 AM |
For the ones sourced from Subydude, is there anyway to source them without having the side fender markers as well?
| Hank3 | 05-17-2004 10:56 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by NeoteriX [/i]
[B]For the ones sourced from Subydude, is there anyway to source them without having the side fender markers as well? [/B][/QUOTE]
I was fortunate enough to get just the white OEM sidemarkers from SD - he had a set left over :)
[B]For the ones sourced from Subydude, is there anyway to source them without having the side fender markers as well? [/B][/QUOTE]
I was fortunate enough to get just the white OEM sidemarkers from SD - he had a set left over :)
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