| crank0r | 04-01-2005 02:32 PM |
Promblem with tires from overheating...pics added
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posting this in this section, cuz its only related to overheating from track days, i run BFG Gforce KDW's and have run at willow springs twice, if you dont know the track its a 1.5 mile course with alot of turns, the first time I got 4 30 mins runs, and second time 6 30 min runs, after the first day I noticed that tread near the sidewall had fallen off. Dont know how else to discribe it, its kinda like where the tread meets the sidewall has gotten hot and melted away, I went to place i got the tires and they said its from overheating and wasnt covered under warranty, and at the time only 1 had alot of this showing, so they rotated to the back. Noiw though after the second track event, 4 tires are showing this, Im suppose to goto the track again in april and wonder if they are going to blow from this? Someone told me its normal and caused by imperfections in hte tire, but sounded like some BS to me, so anyone have any incite on this ?
| PaulC | 04-01-2005 02:36 PM |
It caused by a combination of alignment settings (lack of camber), overheating, and plain old fashioned track-day abuse.
Destroying street tires can get expensive very quickly, which is why a lot of people eventually go for dedicated track tires.
Destroying street tires can get expensive very quickly, which is why a lot of people eventually go for dedicated track tires.
| kwak | 04-01-2005 03:55 PM |
If the shoulder is bald there is not enough negative camber.
If you are sliding the car around a lot that overheats the tires. If the car understeers and you still push the car hard it will wear out the fronts. So backing off a fraction can help the tires.
If you are sliding the car around a lot that overheats the tires. If the car understeers and you still push the car hard it will wear out the fronts. So backing off a fraction can help the tires.
| 10th Warrior | 04-01-2005 04:31 PM |
lack of camber + a tire designed for wet conditions = bad times on a race track ;)
get some proper tires at least.
get some proper tires at least.
| Fred | 04-01-2005 06:42 PM |
April Fools!!! :lol:
(I hope so, anyway... :( )
(I hope so, anyway... :( )
| ChrisW | 04-01-2005 07:29 PM |
sounds like your pushing too hard in the corners.
| silver04rs | 04-01-2005 07:39 PM |
tires wear out on the track. if you want them to last then wax your car and let it sit in the driveway. i drive the **** out of my car and im on my 6th set of tires at only 54,000 miles. i love to drive hard and i pay for it.
travis- the gravel crew
[url]www.gcrallyx.com[/url]
travis- the gravel crew
[url]www.gcrallyx.com[/url]
| urbanachiever | 04-01-2005 07:56 PM |
dude not enuf detail to help.
1) what side of the tire is melted? inner? outer? what tire shows worst damage?
2)you run the track cw or ccw?
3)whats yer tire pressure? Suspension stock?
1) what side of the tire is melted? inner? outer? what tire shows worst damage?
2)you run the track cw or ccw?
3)whats yer tire pressure? Suspension stock?
| crank0r | 04-02-2005 12:39 AM |
ok i understand tire wear is to be expected, what im confused about is how its wearing to me its not normal, and looks like its not safe. More detail though, the first event was ccw and the front right was the taking all the abuse and it had pieces missing in the tread right where the tread meets the sidewall, also noticed a crack going all the way around the tire where it looks like the tire split, that was in the middle of the tread going all teh way around. The pieces missing again is on the outside of the tire on the edge of hte tread where it meets the sidewall. Again I was told its "imperfections" in the tire that didnt aadhere properly and when they get that hot the imperfections come out or fall off. I just want to be sure its safe, and normal. If not I would assume i got a bad batch of tires and maybe i can get them warrantied. After the 2nd track day we went cw and it was the opposite tire with most damage but this time the back 1 took some abuse as well, I believe 3 of the tires now have this "pitting" on the outer edge where the tread meets the sidewall, if someone would like to see a pic i can take a few pics. I have a track day in 2 weeks and I prolly will run with these tires, so im wondering if i should be concerned about a blowout. I will prolly save up for some track wheels/tires but for now these have to do. and since im on the subject I get very little understeer. I have whiteline endlinks, laterlinks, perrin front and back sway bars, and strut bars, eibach springs, and kyb adjustable struts, and was wondering what stiffness I should run the struts? I didnt adjust them either time at the track I had them set at there stiffest settings, but I was wondering if adjusting either the front or back softer would help bring the back around a bit ? any help would be appreciated...
| nhluhr | 04-02-2005 01:48 AM |
well, it's no longer April 1st so you must be serious.
"wow" is all I can say. From your description, it sounds as though entire sections of the tread have come off? If so, those tires are done. You'd be begging for a nasty blowout to even keep driving them on the street.
You are doing two things if they are getting that bad though. First of all, you're pushing too hard so you're building more heat than the tires can handle. Second, you don't have enough camber so the tires are heating up on the outside too much and thus overheating that edge.
"wow" is all I can say. From your description, it sounds as though entire sections of the tread have come off? If so, those tires are done. You'd be begging for a nasty blowout to even keep driving them on the street.
You are doing two things if they are getting that bad though. First of all, you're pushing too hard so you're building more heat than the tires can handle. Second, you don't have enough camber so the tires are heating up on the outside too much and thus overheating that edge.
| afpdl | 04-02-2005 07:06 AM |
And they are kdws, they chunk if you look at them funny. They are made to displace water not run hotlaps.
| OAKOS Automotive | 04-02-2005 09:13 AM |
Does your tire look something like this?
[img]http://www.oakos.com/wrx/WeRX/chunkedtire.JPG[/img]
This is quite common. A few possible solutions:[list][*]More front tire pressure[*]More negative front camber[*]Stiffer rear sway bar to help take the load off the fronts[*]Drive with the tires in mind. IE, don't push past the limit of the front tires.[*]Increase roll restistance of the car. Stiffer springs that are slightly lower.[/list]
Good luck and be safe! Like was already mentioned, if your tires are chunked they are compromised and shouldn't be used again.
-Dave
[img]http://www.oakos.com/wrx/WeRX/chunkedtire.JPG[/img]
This is quite common. A few possible solutions:[list][*]More front tire pressure[*]More negative front camber[*]Stiffer rear sway bar to help take the load off the fronts[*]Drive with the tires in mind. IE, don't push past the limit of the front tires.[*]Increase roll restistance of the car. Stiffer springs that are slightly lower.[/list]
Good luck and be safe! Like was already mentioned, if your tires are chunked they are compromised and shouldn't be used again.
-Dave
| Aaron B | 04-02-2005 09:27 AM |
[QUOTE=crank0r] I have whiteline endlinks, laterlinks, perrin front and back sway bars, and strut bars, eibach springs, and kyb adjustable struts, [/QUOTE]
I think the setup info that everyone [b]really[/b] wants to know is what your alignment is and what tire pressure you're running.
I think the setup info that everyone [b]really[/b] wants to know is what your alignment is and what tire pressure you're running.
| Jsortor | 04-02-2005 12:12 PM |
I'm suprised no one has mentioned that this is "Blistering". Tires are just getting run too hot. Camber, PSI, and driving style all contribute to this problem. This is not a tire defect. I used to see this all the time at Daytona racing GP bikes. Sometimes, for a given tire, unless you slow down (take it easier on the tires) there is no cure.
| zoomfactor | 04-02-2005 12:14 PM |
[QUOTE]I think the setup info that everyone really wants to know is what your alignment is and what tire pressure you're running.[/QUOTE]
Ditto
Ditto
| kwak | 04-03-2005 12:06 AM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]I'm suprised no one has mentioned that this is "Blistering". Tires are just getting run too hot. Camber, PSI, and driving style all contribute to this problem. This is not a tire defect. I used to see this all the time at Daytona racing GP bikes. Sometimes, for a given tire, unless you slow down (take it easier on the tires) there is no cure.[/QUOTE]crank0r has not posted his pictures so we cannot determine if his is chunking or blistering. Dave's picture is definitely a blister. Jsortor is correct, it's not a tire defect. The tire is getting too hot on the outside edge. Also contributing to the problem is running a full depth street tire which cannot handle heat.
| crank0r | 04-03-2005 04:20 AM |
ok so this was a bad choice of tire for racing ? and tire pressure was 40psi and i kept bleeding it off to 40 during the runs...alignment nothing changed...and so the final word is it is common symptom of overheated tires, and it is dangerous to drive on them ? and yeah it does look similar to that pic ill get my pics up tomorrow...
| jcroy66 | 04-03-2005 08:25 AM |
[QUOTE=crank0r]and tire pressure was 40psi and i kept bleeding it off to 40 during the runs[/QUOTE]What made you pick 40 psi?
[QUOTE=crank0r]alignment nothing changed[/QUOTE]What does that mean?!? We don't know what your existing alignment was, so this tells us nothing. Unless what you're trying to say is that you're at stock specs.
[QUOTE=crank0r]alignment nothing changed[/QUOTE]What does that mean?!? We don't know what your existing alignment was, so this tells us nothing. Unless what you're trying to say is that you're at stock specs.
| crank0r | 04-03-2005 02:10 PM |
i believe i picked 40 psi cuz thats what the tires were rated at, and here is the pics, looks even worse when looking at it in these pics :( , and so you know i been driving on these since december like this, well 1 from december, other 2 since feb and this is the worst others are no where near as bad as this 1...
[img]http://www.crank0r.com/members/crank0r/tires/tire1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.crank0r.com/members/crank0r/tires/tire2.jpg[/img]
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[url]www.crank0r.com[/url]
[img]http://www.crank0r.com/members/crank0r/tires/tire1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.crank0r.com/members/crank0r/tires/tire2.jpg[/img]
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[url]www.crank0r.com[/url]
| seattle944t | 04-03-2005 03:15 PM |
You are over driving your tires. Yes - these are not the right tires for track days. You need different tires, and if your going to be doing a lot of track/autocross days you will probably want to get a better alignment than stock, at a minimum more camber.
| kwak | 04-04-2005 04:11 PM |
Dave's picture is an example of blisters, just like if you have a popped skin blister. Yours is an example of "chunking", that's when the tread is tearing. The outside should being worn off is from not enough negative camber -- the tire is mostly riding on the outside should in a turn.
For driving those on the street, monitor the shoulder to make sure you are not getting down to the cords. You can see from the deepest tread grooves you are not through the rubber yet.
Additional info on heat, new treaded race tires have the tread shaved down to reduce heat buildup in the tread blocks.
For driving those on the street, monitor the shoulder to make sure you are not getting down to the cords. You can see from the deepest tread grooves you are not through the rubber yet.
Additional info on heat, new treaded race tires have the tread shaved down to reduce heat buildup in the tread blocks.
| KoneKiller | 04-05-2005 01:44 AM |
Assuming your camber is more than negative 1.5 and you don't have a bunch of toe-in, this is just because of the choice of tires. The KDW's are rain tires, plain and simple. What you need is something with few, if any grooves or blocks and a tread depth of 3/32 or so.
Consider:
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=ECSTA+V700[/url]
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hoosier&tireModel=R3S04[/url]
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Avon&tireModel=Tech+R[/url]
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=A032R[/url]
Consider:
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=ECSTA+V700[/url]
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hoosier&tireModel=R3S04[/url]
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Avon&tireModel=Tech+R[/url]
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=A032R[/url]
| crank0r | 04-05-2005 03:05 PM |
***! why are they selling rain tires in california...grrr....the guy at the place i bought my rims, said this was hte best racing tire he had :( now i feel dumb...o well live and learn... and thanks for the tire choices ill check them out....
| WRX-ECE | 04-05-2005 03:27 PM |
[QUOTE=crank0r]***! why are they selling rain tires in california...grrr....the guy at the place i bought my rims, said this was hte best racing tire he had :( now i feel dumb...o well live and learn... and thanks for the tire choices ill check them out....[/QUOTE]
KD = performance tires, KDW = rain tire
don't buy performance tires from a "rim shop" is the best suggestion I have
Also, those R-compound tires mentioned above are not a great idea for daily driving. And they won't last you that long either, they just won't fall apart on the track and will give you ton better grip.
Jeremy <- made my Ecsta 712s look like that from auto-x, then I learned to drive (at least better)
KD = performance tires, KDW = rain tire
don't buy performance tires from a "rim shop" is the best suggestion I have
Also, those R-compound tires mentioned above are not a great idea for daily driving. And they won't last you that long either, they just won't fall apart on the track and will give you ton better grip.
Jeremy <- made my Ecsta 712s look like that from auto-x, then I learned to drive (at least better)
| AlexP | 04-05-2005 04:19 PM |
[QUOTE=crank0r]***! why are they selling rain tires in california...grrr....the guy at the place i bought my rims, said this was hte best racing tire he had :( now i feel dumb...o well live and learn... and thanks for the tire choices ill check them out....[/QUOTE]
Maybe those KDWs WERE the best "racing" tire he had.... That still doesn't mean they're good....
*edit*
KDWs are OEM tires on a bunch of cars (the contour svt comes to mind), THAT is why they are carried in california. And from what the news shows over hear on the east coast, it DOES occasionally rain over there. ;)
Maybe those KDWs WERE the best "racing" tire he had.... That still doesn't mean they're good....
*edit*
KDWs are OEM tires on a bunch of cars (the contour svt comes to mind), THAT is why they are carried in california. And from what the news shows over hear on the east coast, it DOES occasionally rain over there. ;)
| KoneKiller | 04-05-2005 05:30 PM |
Very good point... the tires I pointed out as being examples of good track tires are NOT good street tires.
| crank0r | 04-14-2005 06:35 PM |
i had 0 camber, so i had them set it at -1.5 and the toe was wrong as well, so they fixed that , hopefully it will be ok a the track now, and only wear the inside a bit from normal driving ...
| makofoto | 04-14-2005 08:14 PM |
Can those tires be flipped on the rim ... put the worn shoulder on the inside ...
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