| aznatama | 06-18-2004 05:50 PM |
rear-located harness bar
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ok, I've seen several harness bars that are attached to the front shoulder belts and run right behind the seat.
The only problem with this is that it doesn't allow the front seats to recline. which I actually want to do sometimes whe I'm waiting in the car for someone.
Solution: design a harness bar that attaches in the rear somewhere at about the same height, doesn't restrict 3rd and 4th passenger seating (who the heck seats a 5th person in their imprez anyways?), and deliver the finished product at the same or less cost than current B-pillar mounted bars.
how many ppl would be interested in this? I am going to make one for myself in a week... and I'm wondering if there's a production possibility for this.
another possibility is to integrate this with a chassis brace that runs along the floor from b-pillar to b-pillar.
The only problem with this is that it doesn't allow the front seats to recline. which I actually want to do sometimes whe I'm waiting in the car for someone.
Solution: design a harness bar that attaches in the rear somewhere at about the same height, doesn't restrict 3rd and 4th passenger seating (who the heck seats a 5th person in their imprez anyways?), and deliver the finished product at the same or less cost than current B-pillar mounted bars.
how many ppl would be interested in this? I am going to make one for myself in a week... and I'm wondering if there's a production possibility for this.
another possibility is to integrate this with a chassis brace that runs along the floor from b-pillar to b-pillar.
| Fusionpnoy | 06-19-2004 02:24 AM |
Sounds interesting, good luck building it.
| azimiut | 06-19-2004 03:32 AM |
i have had 9 people in my car.
| SpoolinU | 06-19-2004 03:38 AM |
I'm a big guy and have to push my seat all the way back and tilt it back a decent amount as well....if your new design could accommodate my needs for a reasonable price I would be very :banana: interested
| oldmansan | 06-19-2004 03:59 PM |
Ummm,
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why bother? If you want to recline, you don't need a harness bar. Simply attatch your harness belts to the mounts at the tops of the seats, or where the rear seat belts are. You don't need a harness bar unless you don't want to use the previously mentioned mounting points, and don't want to stiffen up the middle section of the car. The other alternative is a roll cage.
San
San
| aznatama | 06-20-2004 08:36 AM |
the thing is, attaching the harness at anywhere greater than a 15 degree decline is unsafe since in a bad accident, it will cause extreme compression on your spinal column resulting in potentially permanant spinal column damage. This is why most sanctioning bodies don't allow the mounting points at the rear seat belt locations. Also, mounting at the rear seatbelt causes the shoulder harness to pull your shoulders down, and can be very uncomfortable for anyone whos shoulders are marginally above the harness guides of the seat.
Another thing is, what mounts at the tops of the seat? I hope you don't mean the baby-seat anchors. there are warnings that SPECIFICALLY STATE "DO NOT ATTACH HARNESS" to the baby seat loops. Baby seat loops are designed to support maybe 60-100lbs MAX... I really don't trust a baby seat anchor to stop a 150lbs+ person being flung at 140mph... it's like expecting a baby crib designed for a 3-yr-old with a weight limit of 80lbs to be able to suppor the weight of a fully grown man jumping up and down on it. Ain't gonna happen...
Then there's the situation that SpoolinU stated. a harness bar really restricts how far back your seat can move..
and why don't you need a harness bar if you want to recline? I have a harness installed in my car, and I still recline. I use the harness during track days at streets of willow and such, and I recline my seat on a regular basis when I'm sitting in the car waiting for ppl or just want a more comfortable driving position. :confused:
BTW, I'm only designing it, the ppl actually building it are my friends, who have built many roll cages, and were responsible for some of the cages in 2 of the D1GP cars as well as several other professional race series.
Another thing is, what mounts at the tops of the seat? I hope you don't mean the baby-seat anchors. there are warnings that SPECIFICALLY STATE "DO NOT ATTACH HARNESS" to the baby seat loops. Baby seat loops are designed to support maybe 60-100lbs MAX... I really don't trust a baby seat anchor to stop a 150lbs+ person being flung at 140mph... it's like expecting a baby crib designed for a 3-yr-old with a weight limit of 80lbs to be able to suppor the weight of a fully grown man jumping up and down on it. Ain't gonna happen...
Then there's the situation that SpoolinU stated. a harness bar really restricts how far back your seat can move..
and why don't you need a harness bar if you want to recline? I have a harness installed in my car, and I still recline. I use the harness during track days at streets of willow and such, and I recline my seat on a regular basis when I'm sitting in the car waiting for ppl or just want a more comfortable driving position. :confused:
BTW, I'm only designing it, the ppl actually building it are my friends, who have built many roll cages, and were responsible for some of the cages in 2 of the D1GP cars as well as several other professional race series.
| 128d | 06-20-2004 09:56 AM |
Good luck. It sounds like a great idea but I am not sure it will be possible.
| oldmansan | 06-20-2004 04:41 PM |
I was unaware
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of the weight restrictions at the top of the seats. I've actually seen pictures of harnesses mounted there and some harnesses are made to plug into the rear belt receptacles. I actually think there is less angle from my seats to the rear belt location than to my harness bar (Speedware harness bar). The main reason I bought mine was a local speed shop owner who I trust recommended it for the stiffening of the chassis. I am contemplating a roll cage in the future. If your friends build roll cages, that would probably interest more people IMHO. As far as reclining, I guess it's not an issue for me, my seats are fixed. The weight savings were/are worth it for me.
San
San
| JIN | 06-20-2004 04:44 PM |
Show us photos if this really materialises.
Jin
Jin
| aznatama | 06-20-2004 09:25 PM |
i will...
| ebeck | 07-12-2004 05:51 PM |
oK, I'll tell you what I would like. A rear seat harness bar. Seems a bar can be used for the rear seats, behind the rear seats, just like the front seats. 4pt harnesses all around. Build that and I will buy it.
| aznatama | 07-13-2004 12:52 AM |
i've been a bitt busy making spacers for my wheels... so I'll get to this project soon
anyways, the bar I want to design should allow you to use it as a rear seat harness bar if you'd like...
that's a really interesting concept though, why do u need rear harnesses? i guesss it would look cool... ?
I'll update once I get started on the project.
anyways, the bar I want to design should allow you to use it as a rear seat harness bar if you'd like...
that's a really interesting concept though, why do u need rear harnesses? i guesss it would look cool... ?
I'll update once I get started on the project.
| ebeck | 08-13-2004 03:07 PM |
Here is why. [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594420[/url]
| Kenji815 | 08-13-2004 03:59 PM |
closest i seen if someone put 4 racing bucket in the car..
it's very cool concept .. i might do that if i had the money..
it's very cool concept .. i might do that if i had the money..
| ebeck | 08-13-2004 07:17 PM |
No no, not 4 racing seats, Sparco seats in the front and stock rear seats. All 4 seat positions will have a 4 point harnes however.
| tooocool49723 | 08-13-2004 07:34 PM |
How bout a big upside down U bar, put the legs of it on hinges mounted to the floor, and make some support bars (about 2"high) that go above the hinges twords the front (to restrict movement forward). Allow it to recline back. This way, you still have the high mounting point, it can fold backwards, and it wont go forward!
Problem is gonna be flex in the bar, but honestly, I cant see it having THAT much force on it that a thick wall steel tube couldn't handle.
The other problem will be the brace by the hinge that restricts forward movement, that'll have to be strong, and high enough to make it so that the bar doesn't just bend around it in a crash.
The downside to this design is that the lower brace wont be able to adjust to different seating positions, it'll just recline. But someone else can invent something from here. (lawn-recliner type mabye?)
Problem is gonna be flex in the bar, but honestly, I cant see it having THAT much force on it that a thick wall steel tube couldn't handle.
The other problem will be the brace by the hinge that restricts forward movement, that'll have to be strong, and high enough to make it so that the bar doesn't just bend around it in a crash.
The downside to this design is that the lower brace wont be able to adjust to different seating positions, it'll just recline. But someone else can invent something from here. (lawn-recliner type mabye?)
| ebeck | 08-16-2004 01:21 PM |
I'll keep you guys posted. I got it worked out.
| Kwyjibo | 08-16-2004 04:00 PM |
i might be interested as well....can't wait to see pics.
| srf | 08-16-2004 05:03 PM |
If you're worried about spinal compression etc with using the rear seat belt anchors, just use Schroth ASM harnesses, many installations are even DOT approved.
| ebeck | 08-18-2004 05:37 PM |
Harness bar makes rear seat belt mount points obsolete. The Schroth ASM mounts mount to the rear C-Pillar or upper rear seat belt hard points. Makes getting in and out of the rear seat a real pain. You have to deuck under it.
I always thought the by mounting the front harness at an angle, like the ASM units want, that would cause the seat to twist in the event of a crash. The ASM is neat but the mount point is way way suspect. What do I know.....
I always thought the by mounting the front harness at an angle, like the ASM units want, that would cause the seat to twist in the event of a crash. The ASM is neat but the mount point is way way suspect. What do I know.....
| srf | 08-18-2004 05:43 PM |
How would it cause the seat to twist?
| Davenow | 08-18-2004 05:54 PM |
Just buy schroth rallye 4's and bolt them to the rear seat belt mounts.
You should NEVER be using these on the street, so the big crash part is a non factor.
AutoX will not be having you roll over or get in a big crash, so the greater than 45 deg angle is a non factor.
If you are doing track days and you are THAT concerned, you need a cage.
You should NEVER be using these on the street, so the big crash part is a non factor.
AutoX will not be having you roll over or get in a big crash, so the greater than 45 deg angle is a non factor.
If you are doing track days and you are THAT concerned, you need a cage.
| 1SIKWRX4U2NV | 08-19-2004 12:15 AM |
i saw a dub not too long ago that had a harness / bar behind the driver seat that accomodated the seat to be slightly reclined; very cool, though i haven't seen anything like it since.
| 128d | 08-19-2004 02:26 AM |
Does anyone have the DOT approved schroth belts? I was looking into them and it appears that as well as being DOT approved they also do not require being mounted directly behind the seat. I look on their site and did not find much information on this but I did see them mounted off to the sides or much lower that the recommended angles and placement.
| ebeck | 08-19-2004 05:32 PM |
1SIKWRX4U2NV, It's a Sparco harness bar.
[QUOTE]You should NEVER be using these on the street[/QUOTE] Why? Sure seems to hold alot better than stock belts. 4, 3" belts vs. 2, 2" belts. My seats have no side air bags. Want to put a removable steering wheel in so perhaps no front air bags either.
Only thing missing is a good harness bar. That exists. Sparco or Speedeware makes it. I just want one for the rear seat. Yes, I'm weird.
[QUOTE]You should NEVER be using these on the street[/QUOTE] Why? Sure seems to hold alot better than stock belts. 4, 3" belts vs. 2, 2" belts. My seats have no side air bags. Want to put a removable steering wheel in so perhaps no front air bags either.
Only thing missing is a good harness bar. That exists. Sparco or Speedeware makes it. I just want one for the rear seat. Yes, I'm weird.
| gswrx | 08-20-2004 04:05 AM |
check out rallyinnovations.com
g
g
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