| silver arrow | 10-23-2006 12:24 PM |
RPM limit in STU
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Alright guys, what's your opinions on RPM limit on a STi. It is an STU car and that means stock boost. Used to rev the old WRX to 7600rpm without any problems. Is 7400 on track autocrossing unresonable?
| Turn in Concepts | 10-23-2006 01:29 PM |
What are your reasons for revving to that point?
| AtomicRacer | 10-23-2006 01:36 PM |
I have had my rev limit in my STU legal map set at 7500 for over a year now and had zero problems. That is over 30 local events plus 4 national events and the Pro Finale/Solo Nationals. With the 245/40-17 Yoks I get 60mph in second gear.
-Paul
-Paul
| WRXedUSA | 10-23-2006 01:36 PM |
The power band is so open that I never get to that range. Ever.
| maxQ | 10-23-2006 01:37 PM |
[QUOTE=Turn in Concepts;15713891]What are your reasons for revving to that point?[/QUOTE]
While I can't speak to silver arrow's motivation, I can guess... because I have the same question.
I hit the rev-limiter in four different spots during yesterday's autox. The limiter only popped a couple of times in 3/4 of the instances so it wasn't worth shifting.
An extra couple hundred RPMs would gain several tenths in those spots.
While I can't speak to silver arrow's motivation, I can guess... because I have the same question.
I hit the rev-limiter in four different spots during yesterday's autox. The limiter only popped a couple of times in 3/4 of the instances so it wasn't worth shifting.
An extra couple hundred RPMs would gain several tenths in those spots.
| KC | 10-23-2006 01:38 PM |
Wow, the stock ECU has values in the boost map for any RPMs over the stock rev limiter? (Where the engine shouldn't be in a stock car?)
--kC
--kC
| maxQ | 10-23-2006 01:45 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;15714061]Wow, the stock ECU has values in the boost map for any RPMs over the stock rev limiter? (Where the engine shouldn't be in a stock car?)
--kC[/QUOTE]
While I understand your point.... wouldn't the peak boost value at redline be allowed past that point? By then the ECU is doing its best to hold a constant boost so isn't it probably within the spirit of the rules (boy, that phrase might ruffle some feathers ;) ) to allow it to continue that behavior?
At partial throttle, would it matter as long it was below the peak value?
--kC[/QUOTE]
While I understand your point.... wouldn't the peak boost value at redline be allowed past that point? By then the ECU is doing its best to hold a constant boost so isn't it probably within the spirit of the rules (boy, that phrase might ruffle some feathers ;) ) to allow it to continue that behavior?
At partial throttle, would it matter as long it was below the peak value?
| afpdl | 10-23-2006 01:49 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;15714061]Wow, the stock ECU has values in the boost map for any RPMs over the stock rev limiter? (Where the engine shouldn't be in a stock car?)
--kC[/QUOTE]
Well it has somthing there as Ive had my car above 7200rpms with a completely stock ecu.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Well it has somthing there as Ive had my car above 7200rpms with a completely stock ecu.
| AtomicRacer | 10-23-2006 01:49 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;15714061]Wow, the stock ECU has values in the boost map for any RPMs over the stock rev limiter? (Where the engine shouldn't be in a stock car?)
--kC[/QUOTE]
That arguement is a load and you know it. ECU is open with the exception of DIRECT boost impact/modification (i.e. boost tables, waste gate, etc.). Indirect impact to boost (such as a downpipe) is legal and the rules state that.
-Paul
--kC[/QUOTE]
That arguement is a load and you know it. ECU is open with the exception of DIRECT boost impact/modification (i.e. boost tables, waste gate, etc.). Indirect impact to boost (such as a downpipe) is legal and the rules state that.
-Paul
| KC | 10-23-2006 02:16 PM |
Does the stock table have values other than 0/Nil to handle the RPMs over stock? Are there even values in that table after the rev-limit?
Putting in any numbers other than what is programmed in the stock ECU at the stock revlimt *is* changing the boost table.
Can someone post those values? A nice cameraphone shot of a screen showing a stock ECU boost map for RPMs over stock would be sufficient. (you can eidt out any values from 0-rev limit so no one sees it.)
--kC
Putting in any numbers other than what is programmed in the stock ECU at the stock revlimt *is* changing the boost table.
Can someone post those values? A nice cameraphone shot of a screen showing a stock ECU boost map for RPMs over stock would be sufficient. (you can eidt out any values from 0-rev limit so no one sees it.)
--kC
| KC | 10-23-2006 02:21 PM |
[QUOTE=maxQ;15714169]While I understand your point.... wouldn't the peak boost value at redline be allowed past that point? [/QUOTE]
Did those 'peak values' have to be programmed that way? Or did those 'peak values' exist in the stock ECU boost table after current revlimit? The former is modification to the boost table. The latter is 'stock boost'.
[QUOTE]At partial throttle, would it matter as long it was below the peak value?[/QUOTE]Can I change the turbo and only run it at partial throttle too? Does that matter?
--kC
Did those 'peak values' have to be programmed that way? Or did those 'peak values' exist in the stock ECU boost table after current revlimit? The former is modification to the boost table. The latter is 'stock boost'.
[QUOTE]At partial throttle, would it matter as long it was below the peak value?[/QUOTE]Can I change the turbo and only run it at partial throttle too? Does that matter?
--kC
| maxQ | 10-23-2006 02:24 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;15714734]Did those 'peak values' have to be programmed that way? Or did those 'peak values' exist on the stock ECU? The former is modification to the boost table. The latter is 'stock boost'.[/quote]
I meant the stock boost level in the stock ECU at the stock rev-limit. I meant "peak" as the stock boost value.
[quote]
Can I change the turbo and only run it at partial throttle too? Does that matter?
--kC[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's what I'm suggesting. Nice red herring.
I meant the stock boost level in the stock ECU at the stock rev-limit. I meant "peak" as the stock boost value.
[quote]
Can I change the turbo and only run it at partial throttle too? Does that matter?
--kC[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's what I'm suggesting. Nice red herring.
| KC | 10-23-2006 03:36 PM |
[QUOTE=maxQ;15714790]I meant the stock boost level in the stock ECU at the stock rev-limit. I meant "peak" as the stock boost value.[/QUOTE]
After revlimit has been reached at peak boost... do the values exist in the stock tables/cells that allow boost to function at stock levels that were there before the reflash. (Part of me says no because if that's the stock rev limit, nothing needs to exist in a stock ECU beyond stock revlimit on the boost tables... boost tapers off towards redline).
I'm just saying that if Subaru decided instead of continuing boost values in the cells in the table at stock levels, if they decided have NULL/0 values in the tables after rev-limit (ie, boost tapers off to redline, do the boost tables just END at rdline?), then no... it's not legal to change to the last known stock values.
Does anyone have a screen capture of the Subaru ECU boost tables before being re-flashed?
--kC
After revlimit has been reached at peak boost... do the values exist in the stock tables/cells that allow boost to function at stock levels that were there before the reflash. (Part of me says no because if that's the stock rev limit, nothing needs to exist in a stock ECU beyond stock revlimit on the boost tables... boost tapers off towards redline).
I'm just saying that if Subaru decided instead of continuing boost values in the cells in the table at stock levels, if they decided have NULL/0 values in the tables after rev-limit (ie, boost tapers off to redline, do the boost tables just END at rdline?), then no... it's not legal to change to the last known stock values.
Does anyone have a screen capture of the Subaru ECU boost tables before being re-flashed?
--kC
| maxQ | 10-23-2006 03:43 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;15715939]
I'm just saying that if Subaru decided instead of continuing boost values in the cells in the table at stock levels, if they decided have NULL/0 values in the tables after rev-limit (ie, boost tapers off to redline, do the boost tables just END at rdline?), then no... it's not legal to change to the last known stock values.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I realized that from your first post. Hence my "spirit of the rules" comment.
Anyway, no one ever dealt with this in STX? No STX Subaru has a raised rev limit?
I'm just saying that if Subaru decided instead of continuing boost values in the cells in the table at stock levels, if they decided have NULL/0 values in the tables after rev-limit (ie, boost tapers off to redline, do the boost tables just END at rdline?), then no... it's not legal to change to the last known stock values.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I realized that from your first post. Hence my "spirit of the rules" comment.
Anyway, no one ever dealt with this in STX? No STX Subaru has a raised rev limit?
| KC | 10-23-2006 03:45 PM |
[QUOTE=maxQ;15716061]Yes, I realized that from your first post. Hence my "spirit of the rules" comment.
Anyway, no one ever dealt with this in STX? No STX Subaru has a raised rev limit?[/QUOTE]
Spirit of what rules? The ones that say [I]no changes[/I] to stock boost (standard boost levels)? Adding and filling non existing cells with data is still changing boost levels (If it doesn't exist and then you add them, that's changing a vlaue), or changing 0s to 09, 1D etc... is still changing them.
[QUOTE]These allowances also apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted. Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications are permissible, [B]but directly altering or modifying the boost or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically[/B], is strictly prohibited.[/QUOTE]
If they did, no ones been protested at a big event for it.
Again, show me some stock boost maps from non-flashed ECUs that have values in the various tables that control boost beyond stock rev-limit.
--kC
Anyway, no one ever dealt with this in STX? No STX Subaru has a raised rev limit?[/QUOTE]
Spirit of what rules? The ones that say [I]no changes[/I] to stock boost (standard boost levels)? Adding and filling non existing cells with data is still changing boost levels (If it doesn't exist and then you add them, that's changing a vlaue), or changing 0s to 09, 1D etc... is still changing them.
[QUOTE]These allowances also apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted. Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications are permissible, [B]but directly altering or modifying the boost or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically[/B], is strictly prohibited.[/QUOTE]
If they did, no ones been protested at a big event for it.
Again, show me some stock boost maps from non-flashed ECUs that have values in the various tables that control boost beyond stock rev-limit.
--kC
| AtomicRacer | 10-23-2006 03:47 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;15715939]After revlimit has been reached at peak boost... do the values exist in the stock tables/cells that allow boost to function at stock levels that were there before the reflash. (Part of me says no because if that's the stock rev limit, nothing needs to exist in a stock ECU beyond stock revlimit on the boost tables... boost tapers off towards redline).
I'm just saying that if Subaru decided instead of continuing boost values in the cells in the table at stock levels, if they decided have NULL/0 values in the tables after rev-limit (ie, boost tapers off to redline, do the boost tables just END at rdline?), then no... it's not legal to change to the last known stock values.
Does anyone have a screen capture of the Subaru ECU boost tables before being re-flashed?
--kC[/QUOTE]
I agree with you in theory if that is true but... it appears to not be true as my original STU map made by Jarod @ PDX was based off my stock ECU maps and only timing, fueling and revlimit were changed, nothing else. So if that is true then there must be some thing there or the ECU doesn't care and operates regardless. I will say there is no power up that high (at least by the butt dyno). I too would like to see screenshots of a bone stock map in AP protuner to at least get an idea.
-Paul
I'm just saying that if Subaru decided instead of continuing boost values in the cells in the table at stock levels, if they decided have NULL/0 values in the tables after rev-limit (ie, boost tapers off to redline, do the boost tables just END at rdline?), then no... it's not legal to change to the last known stock values.
Does anyone have a screen capture of the Subaru ECU boost tables before being re-flashed?
--kC[/QUOTE]
I agree with you in theory if that is true but... it appears to not be true as my original STU map made by Jarod @ PDX was based off my stock ECU maps and only timing, fueling and revlimit were changed, nothing else. So if that is true then there must be some thing there or the ECU doesn't care and operates regardless. I will say there is no power up that high (at least by the butt dyno). I too would like to see screenshots of a bone stock map in AP protuner to at least get an idea.
-Paul
| PhilC | 10-23-2006 06:48 PM |
About to head off for dinner so can't post the screen captures but in ECUEdit the stock maps for a sample '03 stock ECU have fields for 5200, 5600, 6800 in both Wastegate Duty Cycle and Boost Target. My understanding of the way it works is that the ECU uses the 5600 target for the entire range from 5600 until 6799. From 6800 to the stock limit of 7100 it uses the 6800 values. Beyond the 7100 limit is the grey area you're discussing but the ECU should continue to use the 6800 values which is completely normal since that's exactly what it does between 5600 and 6799 as well. For what it's worth on a WRX the target values at 6800 are 0 for wastegate duty and 1.47 for target boost (.47 bar above atmospheric 1.0).
| jamesohoh7 | 10-23-2006 06:56 PM |
I've pulled a stock ROM image off my ECU and looked at it with Enginuity (freeware ECU s/w) and from what I remember, the boost maps stop at 6800 RPM. These go in 200 RPM increments, and so the ECU -possibly- just 'holds' the last values for that 200 RPM gap until rev-limit. I'm under the impression the stock ECU has a rev-limit of 7000, yes? This is for an 05 STi, btw.
I must also confess I do not know what bearing the configuration of the s/w itself has on the representation of this data. I d/l'ed it once, just to see how it worked. I pulled the ROM image off so I would always have a reference to go back to in case I ever bothered to install the AccessPort I bought last year (still sitting in it's box in my office).
I can post a pic if y'all really want to see it. There are multiple 'target boost maps' (at least 4, IIRC).
We also do not know if the Enginuity s/w I used just doesn't bother rendering what's programmed into the ECU beyond the rev-limit. IOW: it could easily be the case that the s/w checks the rev-limit value first, then renders the tables according to that cut-off. Data could exist beyond the visible rev-limit. In fact, that's probably how I'd write it off-hand just b/c that'd be the sane way to do it.. I mean, why bother showing data-cells beyond the programmed rev-limit to a user? That would just be confusing, I would think. :meh:
I'm no ECU programmer though, so there surely could be compelling reasons it would be done differently.
So, weigh in if anyone wants to see the pic... bear in mind the firestorm it could create will NOT be my responsiblity :lol:
I must also confess I do not know what bearing the configuration of the s/w itself has on the representation of this data. I d/l'ed it once, just to see how it worked. I pulled the ROM image off so I would always have a reference to go back to in case I ever bothered to install the AccessPort I bought last year (still sitting in it's box in my office).
I can post a pic if y'all really want to see it. There are multiple 'target boost maps' (at least 4, IIRC).
We also do not know if the Enginuity s/w I used just doesn't bother rendering what's programmed into the ECU beyond the rev-limit. IOW: it could easily be the case that the s/w checks the rev-limit value first, then renders the tables according to that cut-off. Data could exist beyond the visible rev-limit. In fact, that's probably how I'd write it off-hand just b/c that'd be the sane way to do it.. I mean, why bother showing data-cells beyond the programmed rev-limit to a user? That would just be confusing, I would think. :meh:
I'm no ECU programmer though, so there surely could be compelling reasons it would be done differently.
So, weigh in if anyone wants to see the pic... bear in mind the firestorm it could create will NOT be my responsiblity :lol:
| silver arrow | 10-23-2006 07:04 PM |
[QUOTE=Turn in Concepts;15713891]What are your reasons for revving to that point?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AtomicRacer;15714014]I have had my rev limit in my STU legal map set at 7500 for over a year now and had zero problems. That is over 30 local events plus 4 national events and the Pro Finale/Solo Nationals. With the 245/40-17 Yoks I get 60mph in second gear.
-Paul[/QUOTE]
Atomic got it. I had 2 places I was hitting the limiter yesterday. Also at the start had a turn at top of 1st that forced me to shift early or in the middle of a turn.
[QUOTE=AtomicRacer;15714014]I have had my rev limit in my STU legal map set at 7500 for over a year now and had zero problems. That is over 30 local events plus 4 national events and the Pro Finale/Solo Nationals. With the 245/40-17 Yoks I get 60mph in second gear.
-Paul[/QUOTE]
Atomic got it. I had 2 places I was hitting the limiter yesterday. Also at the start had a turn at top of 1st that forced me to shift early or in the middle of a turn.
| silver arrow | 10-23-2006 07:07 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;15714061]Wow, the stock ECU has values in the boost map for any RPMs over the stock rev limiter? (Where the engine shouldn't be in a stock car?)
--kC[/QUOTE]
ECU will use the 6800 values until redline.
--kC[/QUOTE]
ECU will use the 6800 values until redline.
| Freon | 10-23-2006 07:13 PM |
The ECU holds the value after the end of maps.
Most of the factory tunes have the highest RPM values really drop a lot of boost. The STI is set to drop from 14 to 12.5psi from 6400 to 6800 RPM. This means it will start to drop pretty fast once you hit 6400 and then it attempts to hold 12.5psi at whatever RPM above 6800 you may reach.
Most of the factory tunes have the highest RPM values really drop a lot of boost. The STI is set to drop from 14 to 12.5psi from 6400 to 6800 RPM. This means it will start to drop pretty fast once you hit 6400 and then it attempts to hold 12.5psi at whatever RPM above 6800 you may reach.
| jamesohoh7 | 10-23-2006 07:13 PM |
large image attached...
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Well, heading to dinner.. so I went ahead and made a JPG of the 4 main boost maps as shown in the Enginuity s/w.
Remember, there's no crying in baseba... I mean.. autox :lol:
(sorry for the huge image... but is necessary for proper viewing)
[img]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTMyNDE0MDZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/img]
Remember, there's no crying in baseba... I mean.. autox :lol:
(sorry for the huge image... but is necessary for proper viewing)
[img]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTMyNDE0MDZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg[/img]
| silver arrow | 10-23-2006 07:26 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow;15712855]Alright guys, what's your opinions on RPM limit on a STi. It is an STU car and that means stock boost. Used to rev the old WRX to 7600rpm without any problems. Is 7400 on track autocrossing unresonable?[/QUOTE]
Now that we've established that it is legal, back to the original question. Do you think it is safe?
Now that we've established that it is legal, back to the original question. Do you think it is safe?
| Mykl | 10-23-2006 08:06 PM |
Having that extra 400-500 RPM's would be nice.
| afpdl | 10-23-2006 08:20 PM |
[QUOTE=jamesohoh7;15719196]Well, heading to dinner.. so I went ahead and made a JPG of the 4 main boost maps as shown in the Enginuity s/w.
Remember, there's no crying in baseba... I mean.. autox :lol:
(sorry for the huge image... but is necessary for proper viewing)
[/QUOTE]
So its illegal to go to 7000 rpms?:confused:
Remember, there's no crying in baseba... I mean.. autox :lol:
(sorry for the huge image... but is necessary for proper viewing)
[/QUOTE]
So its illegal to go to 7000 rpms?:confused:
| silver arrow | 10-23-2006 09:00 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl;15720173]So its illegal to go to 7000 rpms?:confused:[/QUOTE]
Where did you get that? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Where did you get that? :confused: :confused: :confused:
| afpdl | 10-23-2006 09:16 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow;15720659]Where did you get that? :confused: :confused: :confused:[/QUOTE]
The graphs stop at 6800rpms.
The graphs stop at 6800rpms.
| KC | 10-23-2006 09:25 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl;15720853]The graphs stop at 6800rpms.[/QUOTE]
See, that's exactly my point... There are no values, at all, beyond 6800. Therefore, something, even a stock value "has to be added" to the table through software that allows *A* map beyond 6800.
Is that, or isn't that, modifying the boost through electronic means? If it doens't exist now, SOMETHING has to fill-in the void. Is that *not* a change to the standard boost tables?
--kC
See, that's exactly my point... There are no values, at all, beyond 6800. Therefore, something, even a stock value "has to be added" to the table through software that allows *A* map beyond 6800.
Is that, or isn't that, modifying the boost through electronic means? If it doens't exist now, SOMETHING has to fill-in the void. Is that *not* a change to the standard boost tables?
--kC
| afpdl | 10-23-2006 09:46 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;15720961]See, that's exactly my point... There are no values, at all, beyond 6800. Therefore, something, even a stock value "has to be added" to the table through software that allows *A* map beyond 6800.
Is that, or isn't that, modifying the boost through electronic means? If it doens't exist now, SOMETHING has to fill-in the void. Is that *not* a change to the standard boost tables?
--kC[/QUOTE]
But afaik the stock redline is 7200rpms. Are you calling the stock car illegal? :lol:
Is that, or isn't that, modifying the boost through electronic means? If it doens't exist now, SOMETHING has to fill-in the void. Is that *not* a change to the standard boost tables?
--kC[/QUOTE]
But afaik the stock redline is 7200rpms. Are you calling the stock car illegal? :lol:
| KC | 10-23-2006 10:02 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl;15721208]But afaik the stock redline is 7200rpms. Are you calling the stock car illegal? :lol:[/QUOTE]Sure! :lol:
I understand those are target maps... but again... what are the maps beyond that when the rpm limit is raised? As others say... it just holds at last known value? Or do new columns have to be programmed?
I understand those are target maps... but again... what are the maps beyond that when the rpm limit is raised? As others say... it just holds at last known value? Or do new columns have to be programmed?
| DrBiggly | 10-23-2006 10:14 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl;15721208]But afaik the stock redline is 7200rpms. Are you calling the stock car illegal? :lol:[/QUOTE]
That would be basically what he's saying given the information of 'tables stop at 6800' and 'stock rev limit == 7200.' :lol:
KC,
I believe that the stock values extend well past rev limit and that is why it wasn't an issue to raise the rev limit. Imagine what would happen if someone over-revved and then the ECU had no function there to handle it. Guaranteed explosion in spectacular fashion.
If they do not actually exist, then the ECU is programmed to use the last known value in a column and thus anything past 6800/7000 up to the rev limit (stock or higher) is identical.
-Biggly
That would be basically what he's saying given the information of 'tables stop at 6800' and 'stock rev limit == 7200.' :lol:
KC,
I believe that the stock values extend well past rev limit and that is why it wasn't an issue to raise the rev limit. Imagine what would happen if someone over-revved and then the ECU had no function there to handle it. Guaranteed explosion in spectacular fashion.
If they do not actually exist, then the ECU is programmed to use the last known value in a column and thus anything past 6800/7000 up to the rev limit (stock or higher) is identical.
-Biggly
| nhluhr | 10-23-2006 10:18 PM |
The mapping doesn't have to have values past 6800 (and indeed, they don't unless you change them). If a particular table runs out of rpm or load for a given situation, the last column/row is used. This is reflash basics 101.
Just like the ECU doesn't need specifically defined values for every single rpm (4501, 4502, 4503) it doesn't need to have values past the max tabled mapped value. It just keeps using them. Whether it's safe to continue commanding that much boost is another topic. If you look at those tables above, you will also notice the max mapped throttle is 80%. Does that mean that no boost happens above 80%? No it doesn't. This argument of KC's is based on a complete misunderstanding of how the ECU works.
Further, unless you've remapped it, the throttle shuts closed above 6900 anyway, thus negating any rev limit increases on a DBW subaru.
[QUOTE=PhilC;15718851]My understanding of the way it works is that the ECU uses the 5600 target for the entire range from 5600 until 6799. From 6800 to the stock limit of 7100 it uses the 6800 values.[/QUOTE]This is not correct. All tables in the map will be interpolated linearly between load points. If your 7000rpm value is "15" and the 6000rpm value is "14" then the 6500 lookup will be 14.5. If it was any other way, it would ping badly as the timing, fuel, etc made these big steps instead of ramping up smoothly like it does.
Just like the ECU doesn't need specifically defined values for every single rpm (4501, 4502, 4503) it doesn't need to have values past the max tabled mapped value. It just keeps using them. Whether it's safe to continue commanding that much boost is another topic. If you look at those tables above, you will also notice the max mapped throttle is 80%. Does that mean that no boost happens above 80%? No it doesn't. This argument of KC's is based on a complete misunderstanding of how the ECU works.
Further, unless you've remapped it, the throttle shuts closed above 6900 anyway, thus negating any rev limit increases on a DBW subaru.
[QUOTE=PhilC;15718851]My understanding of the way it works is that the ECU uses the 5600 target for the entire range from 5600 until 6799. From 6800 to the stock limit of 7100 it uses the 6800 values.[/QUOTE]This is not correct. All tables in the map will be interpolated linearly between load points. If your 7000rpm value is "15" and the 6000rpm value is "14" then the 6500 lookup will be 14.5. If it was any other way, it would ping badly as the timing, fuel, etc made these big steps instead of ramping up smoothly like it does.
| leecea | 10-23-2006 10:20 PM |
[QUOTE]See, that's exactly my point... There are no values, at all, beyond 6800. Therefore, something, even a stock value "has to be added" to the table through software that allows *A* map beyond 6800.
[/QUOTE]
I feel like people are mixing things up here - what you are looking at is the data not the ECU programming. There is clearly no data for most RPM and throttle values. If you are at 6200 rpm and 65% throttle, there is no target boost value, yet the ECU programming comes up with one.
If the data stops at 6800 rpm, my guess is that the program will keep that boost for all rpm >= 6800 because it is looking for a data point <= to current rpm and throttle% and using that. If there was an entry that said 7300 rpm = 0, then I think you have an argument because it will cut boost to zero beyond redline.
[/QUOTE]
I feel like people are mixing things up here - what you are looking at is the data not the ECU programming. There is clearly no data for most RPM and throttle values. If you are at 6200 rpm and 65% throttle, there is no target boost value, yet the ECU programming comes up with one.
If the data stops at 6800 rpm, my guess is that the program will keep that boost for all rpm >= 6800 because it is looking for a data point <= to current rpm and throttle% and using that. If there was an entry that said 7300 rpm = 0, then I think you have an argument because it will cut boost to zero beyond redline.
| DrBiggly | 10-23-2006 10:46 PM |
[QUOTE=leecea;15721650]...If the data stops at 6800 rpm, my guess is that the program will keep that boost for all rpm >= 6800 because it is looking for a data point <= to current rpm and throttle% and using that. If there was an entry that said 7300 rpm = 0, then I think you have an argument because it will cut boost to zero beyond redline.[/QUOTE]
Using your example, it can easily be deduced that there is no such entry. Why? Hit the rev limiter sometime. Does the car jerkily go from 0 boost back to 6800rpm boost and then back to 0 boost as so forth? Nope. It's using the last value in the column once past xxxx rpm and thus the relatively smooth rev-limit 'bouncing' effect we get. If it had anything other than the same values, the car would go bananas every time the rev-limit was reached. :)
-Biggly
Using your example, it can easily be deduced that there is no such entry. Why? Hit the rev limiter sometime. Does the car jerkily go from 0 boost back to 6800rpm boost and then back to 0 boost as so forth? Nope. It's using the last value in the column once past xxxx rpm and thus the relatively smooth rev-limit 'bouncing' effect we get. If it had anything other than the same values, the car would go bananas every time the rev-limit was reached. :)
-Biggly
| Mykl | 10-23-2006 11:04 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly;15722017]bananas[/QUOTE]
:banana:
:banana:
| KC | 10-24-2006 07:50 AM |
Oh, hey, I'm cool with it now. I *didn't* have any understanding about what happens... and I never pretended to... which is why I was asking... notice everything is a question? On post 30, it started to make sense.. hence the 'last known value.'
It wasn't a challenge of anything... I purely didn't know having never done any ECU tuning up until I sold the car, nor had any interest in it since then.
I have a feeling some of you think "I knew, but was arguing..." Nope. No freaking clue about ECU tuning. I've only seen a dyno one time, and at that, for about an hour at a dyno day watching them hook up and unhook cars.
--kC
(tun1ng n00b)
It wasn't a challenge of anything... I purely didn't know having never done any ECU tuning up until I sold the car, nor had any interest in it since then.
I have a feeling some of you think "I knew, but was arguing..." Nope. No freaking clue about ECU tuning. I've only seen a dyno one time, and at that, for about an hour at a dyno day watching them hook up and unhook cars.
--kC
(tun1ng n00b)
| jamesohoh7 | 10-24-2006 08:00 AM |
[QUOTE=afpdl;15720173]So its illegal to go to 7000 rpms?:confused:[/QUOTE]
Only YOUR car, Alex... somehow I'll find a way to make only your car illegal! :p
"STi's with modified rev-limits, driven by crazy-tall Conquistadores... who wreak of bad tequillia" :lol:
[color=silver] but of course that's only b/c I have no hope in hell of ever beating you straight up! :-) [/color]
Only YOUR car, Alex... somehow I'll find a way to make only your car illegal! :p
"STi's with modified rev-limits, driven by crazy-tall Conquistadores... who wreak of bad tequillia" :lol:
[color=silver] but of course that's only b/c I have no hope in hell of ever beating you straight up! :-) [/color]
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