| D_REX | 05-15-2006 12:40 PM |
Self Evaluation
�
�
For those of you who autoX regionally on a regular basis, how do you track your personal performance? I'm looking for a fairly stable metric to use for comparison. I started with identifying other regulars in similar vehicle type and comparing each persons time to the collective average. The problem with this approach is that it doesn't use a large enough sample set so that individual performances can skew the average. Here are some other methods I'm considering.
1. Pax Percentage = my pax position / # of entrants ; The downsides here are poor resolution as pax improves and larger variances at lower pax due to variances in attendance.
2. Percentage of FTD ; This obviously would vary significantly based upon who shows up in the faster, less attended (at least regionally) classes.
3. Percentage of top pax = my pax time / top pax time ; This is better than #2 but would vary based on hotshoe attendance.
3 Percentage of top 10 (5?) pax average = my pax time / average of top 10 (5?) pax times ; This seems to have the most promise as I can't think of any issues right now.
All of these are exposed to variances in course dependancy, which my initial method tried to mitigate. I can't think of a method which reduces the effects of course derpendancy yet maintains a decent sample size.
For reference I'm in the Houston region. You can find historical results at [url]www.houscca.com/solo/results.asp[/url]
Thanks, for looking!
Dustin
1. Pax Percentage = my pax position / # of entrants ; The downsides here are poor resolution as pax improves and larger variances at lower pax due to variances in attendance.
2. Percentage of FTD ; This obviously would vary significantly based upon who shows up in the faster, less attended (at least regionally) classes.
3. Percentage of top pax = my pax time / top pax time ; This is better than #2 but would vary based on hotshoe attendance.
3 Percentage of top 10 (5?) pax average = my pax time / average of top 10 (5?) pax times ; This seems to have the most promise as I can't think of any issues right now.
All of these are exposed to variances in course dependancy, which my initial method tried to mitigate. I can't think of a method which reduces the effects of course derpendancy yet maintains a decent sample size.
For reference I'm in the Houston region. You can find historical results at [url]www.houscca.com/solo/results.asp[/url]
Thanks, for looking!
Dustin
| KC | 05-15-2006 01:02 PM |
You're thinking wayyyyy too much about this whole thing.
1st of which.. how long have you been doing this? If you're within your 1st few years... you need more seat time.
After that, the answer is easy... you need even MORE seat time. :)
Percentages don't mean squat. You can use numbers to make yourself look better any day of the week.
Did you win? How far off from 1st were you (both pax and class)? What did you do wrong on the 1st run? Did you botch up a tight corner? A sweeper? A slalom? Did you fix that on your 2nd run? Where did you mess up on your 2nd run? Did you fix it on your third? Where do you think you could have gotten more time based on your driving style vs car setup. What do you need to do as a driver to go faster?
Evaluate your DRIVING not your finishing position. Where you stand doesn't matter squat. How you drive is all that matters. (oh crap.. that sounds very F&F :lol: ) It's true. Don't fixate on how others are beating you, or what their times are. You just need to give it your all on the course.
Improve yoruself as a driver, get seat time, ask for an instructor, go for rides with an instructor, take schools, try different cars, etc.
But the biggest pitfall one can fall into is comparing themselves against others trying to fulfill a need of being better/faster. All that should matter is YOU and how you are doing (on course... less mistakes, more control). Everything else, after time, will fall into place.
But then again, I could be the only one that acts this way.
--kC
1st of which.. how long have you been doing this? If you're within your 1st few years... you need more seat time.
After that, the answer is easy... you need even MORE seat time. :)
Percentages don't mean squat. You can use numbers to make yourself look better any day of the week.
Did you win? How far off from 1st were you (both pax and class)? What did you do wrong on the 1st run? Did you botch up a tight corner? A sweeper? A slalom? Did you fix that on your 2nd run? Where did you mess up on your 2nd run? Did you fix it on your third? Where do you think you could have gotten more time based on your driving style vs car setup. What do you need to do as a driver to go faster?
Evaluate your DRIVING not your finishing position. Where you stand doesn't matter squat. How you drive is all that matters. (oh crap.. that sounds very F&F :lol: ) It's true. Don't fixate on how others are beating you, or what their times are. You just need to give it your all on the course.
Improve yoruself as a driver, get seat time, ask for an instructor, go for rides with an instructor, take schools, try different cars, etc.
But the biggest pitfall one can fall into is comparing themselves against others trying to fulfill a need of being better/faster. All that should matter is YOU and how you are doing (on course... less mistakes, more control). Everything else, after time, will fall into place.
But then again, I could be the only one that acts this way.
--kC
| Scooby South | 05-15-2006 01:04 PM |
the big way I do it ...is log everything.....conditions, Times, Setup, airpressures, etc...then I note FTD...and how close was I to him...
It helps to have a couple of National Drivers in your local club to "gauge" off of....if Not...then you Set the benchmark...Isn't Andy Hollis in your Area????
Pax..meh...I neither here nor there with PAX...I don't think its the MOST accurate....
Raw Time FTW...;)
Bill
It helps to have a couple of National Drivers in your local club to "gauge" off of....if Not...then you Set the benchmark...Isn't Andy Hollis in your Area????
Pax..meh...I neither here nor there with PAX...I don't think its the MOST accurate....
Raw Time FTW...;)
Bill
| Scooby South | 05-15-2006 01:05 PM |
ohhhhhhhh...I like what KC had to say...cept his rants on percentages/....:lol:
Bill
Bill
| Scooby South | 05-15-2006 01:07 PM |
Soooooo KC....tell me about Devans....good bad whatever....any 'shoes' to watch for...surface...any local 'tricks'...;)...thanks...
Bill
Bill
| KC | 05-15-2006 01:09 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]ohhhhhhhh...I like what KC had to say...cept his rants on percentages/....:lol:
Bill[/QUOTE]
Homer: Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Fourfty percent of all people know that.
:)
Bill[/QUOTE]
Homer: Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Fourfty percent of all people know that.
:)
| trhoppe | 05-15-2006 01:09 PM |
Post #1 == trhoppe in 2002/2003 when he got whooped up on by KC
Post #2 == trhoppe in 2004 when he won nationals.
Drive better/smarter instead of faster and don't worry about anything other then a) how YOU are driving the course and b) HAVING FUN!
-Tom
Post #2 == trhoppe in 2004 when he won nationals.
Drive better/smarter instead of faster and don't worry about anything other then a) how YOU are driving the course and b) HAVING FUN!
-Tom
| jcroy66 | 05-15-2006 01:15 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]You're thinking wayyyyy too much about this whole thing.
How you drive is all that matters.[/QUOTE]I agree 100%
How you drive is all that matters.[/QUOTE]I agree 100%
| KC | 05-15-2006 01:16 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]Soooooo KC....tell me about Devans....good bad whatever....any 'shoes' to watch for...surface...any local 'tricks'...;)...thanks...
Bill[/QUOTE]
BSP... hmm.. Yeah. Hazard is pretty quick in his M3 (Rev It Up '04 Boston winner). Winchester is fast in his EVO. I'd say you might have your work cut out for ya up here.
Suface is asphalt, an old Army airport. The runway portions have a crown to them, if you're going from one side to the other across the runway and you turn on the crown... be ready to catch it. The surface is in good condition, and for asphalt, there's plenty of grip available without any tricky spots (we're hoping that it's the same level of grip as Topeka.. some think it just may be).
Other than that... nothing really special.
Bill[/QUOTE]
BSP... hmm.. Yeah. Hazard is pretty quick in his M3 (Rev It Up '04 Boston winner). Winchester is fast in his EVO. I'd say you might have your work cut out for ya up here.
Suface is asphalt, an old Army airport. The runway portions have a crown to them, if you're going from one side to the other across the runway and you turn on the crown... be ready to catch it. The surface is in good condition, and for asphalt, there's plenty of grip available without any tricky spots (we're hoping that it's the same level of grip as Topeka.. some think it just may be).
Other than that... nothing really special.
| MartinG | 05-15-2006 01:24 PM |
Usefulness asside, I think Dustin raises an interesting albeit somethat academic question. I wonder if you could construct a stable benchmark index by identifying the most consistent drivers and average their pax times or something similar. But I expect the sample size would be too small to statistically identify those drivers.
For self evaluation purposes I find it most instructive to let a better driver show me in my own car how much time I am leaving out there.
For self evaluation purposes I find it most instructive to let a better driver show me in my own car how much time I am leaving out there.
| Scooby South | 05-15-2006 01:30 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]BSP... hmm.. Yeah. Hazard is pretty quick in his M3 (Rev It Up '04 Boston winner). Winchester is fast in his EVO. I'd say you might have your work cut out for ya up here.
Suface is asphalt, an old Army airport. The runway portions have a crown to them, if you're going from one side to the other across the runway and you turn on the crown... be ready to catch it. The surface is in good condition, and for asphalt, there's plenty of grip available without any tricky spots (we're hoping that it's the same level of grip as Topeka.. some think it just may be).
Other than that... nothing really special.[/QUOTE]
Thank you sir...Yeah I googled them guys to see what I was up against...it seems Winchester is more of a Street tire guy...running in STX ..I know nothings a given...I 'always' have my work cut out for me...:lol:
As for the track...interesting...the crown...Sooo typical Air pressures for Asphalt then....so it sounds like the car becomes unweighted once you come over the crown then....is Foot'n it to the floor an option???? at that point..
Thanks again....Cya Soon
Bill
Suface is asphalt, an old Army airport. The runway portions have a crown to them, if you're going from one side to the other across the runway and you turn on the crown... be ready to catch it. The surface is in good condition, and for asphalt, there's plenty of grip available without any tricky spots (we're hoping that it's the same level of grip as Topeka.. some think it just may be).
Other than that... nothing really special.[/QUOTE]
Thank you sir...Yeah I googled them guys to see what I was up against...it seems Winchester is more of a Street tire guy...running in STX ..I know nothings a given...I 'always' have my work cut out for me...:lol:
As for the track...interesting...the crown...Sooo typical Air pressures for Asphalt then....so it sounds like the car becomes unweighted once you come over the crown then....is Foot'n it to the floor an option???? at that point..
Thanks again....Cya Soon
Bill
| Scooby South | 05-15-2006 01:31 PM |
back to the subject at hand....Video...you can learn alot about how you drive on video...thats my new thing here lately..:)
Bill
Bill
| D_REX | 05-15-2006 01:46 PM |
Ok answers to inquires -
*I've been autoxing for ~5 years.
*I've taken Evo phase 1 (twice) and phase 2.
*Andy hollis runs in Houston from time to time but not regularly. He was an instructor at the Evo schools I've taken.
*I am competitive in my class and certainly use my place in class as a primary metric for performance but it's less usefull for determining trends over time.
Basically I just want to identify whether I am getting better or worse over time. I can get snapshots by codriving with someone better than me, which I do, but this only gives me a few data points which can be heavily skewed by a good or bad day for either of us.
I uderstand that I need to improve myself as a driver. This is not about patting myself on the back or an ego boost. As I said in the title this is about self evaluation. I want to determine, for myself, how I am doing.
Thanks,
Dustin
*I've been autoxing for ~5 years.
*I've taken Evo phase 1 (twice) and phase 2.
*Andy hollis runs in Houston from time to time but not regularly. He was an instructor at the Evo schools I've taken.
*I am competitive in my class and certainly use my place in class as a primary metric for performance but it's less usefull for determining trends over time.
Basically I just want to identify whether I am getting better or worse over time. I can get snapshots by codriving with someone better than me, which I do, but this only gives me a few data points which can be heavily skewed by a good or bad day for either of us.
I uderstand that I need to improve myself as a driver. This is not about patting myself on the back or an ego boost. As I said in the title this is about self evaluation. I want to determine, for myself, how I am doing.
Thanks,
Dustin
| D_REX | 05-15-2006 01:55 PM |
Oh yeah, and before anybody points it out, I'm slow and i know it.
So nobody has tried to chart their relative performance over time?
So nobody has tried to chart their relative performance over time?
| Scooby South | 05-15-2006 01:57 PM |
[QUOTE=D_REX]Oh yeah, and before anybody points it out, I'm slow and i know it.
So nobody has tried to chart their relative performance over time?[/QUOTE]
ummmmmm...no...I know when I drive like ****...:lol:
Bill
So nobody has tried to chart their relative performance over time?[/QUOTE]
ummmmmm...no...I know when I drive like ****...:lol:
Bill
| MartinG | 05-15-2006 02:08 PM |
Dustin, I think you would need to arrange for someboyd to co-drive your car on a regular basis for this to be useful (David comes to mind). The season I spent co-driving with Karter was extremely instructive because he gave me a benchmark to shoot for and he let me ride with him so I could see what he was doing differently.
| rallymaniac | 05-15-2006 02:08 PM |
I do it this way.
If im in the top 10 and there are only STi's and EVO's moded and unmoded above me, and there are STi's and EVO's moded and unmoded below me and i'm in a poor WRX with no suspension mods other than tires and rims that means that i did good :lol:
If im in the top 10 and there are only STi's and EVO's moded and unmoded above me, and there are STi's and EVO's moded and unmoded below me and i'm in a poor WRX with no suspension mods other than tires and rims that means that i did good :lol:
| KC | 05-15-2006 02:20 PM |
[QUOTE=D_REX]*I am competitive in my class and certainly use my place in class as a primary metric for performance but it's less usefull for determining trends over time.[/QUOTE]As you drive better, so could other people in the class. *poof* There goes that metric.
How can you evaluate your driving, when it's a non static comparison? You're comparing yourself over time against someone else that could have adapted faster or slower than yourself. Or made slight changes that were imperceptible to either.
[QUOTE=D_REX]Basically I just want to identify whether I am getting better or worse over time.[/QUOTE]I understand your plight. There's a really easy answer to this one.
You're always getting better when you not only identify what you did wrong on the previous run, but eliminate it on your next.
If you think you did everything perfectly, you were too slow. :lol:
Wrap your head around that one, and get back to me with what you believe it means. Really... think about that one for a sec.
[QUOTE=D_REX]I understand that I need to improve myself as a driver. This is not about patting myself on the back or an ego boost. As I said in the title this is about self evaluation. I want to determine, for myself, how I am doing.[/QUOTE]How do YOU think YOU'RE doing now? Auto-x is about being in the seat and minimizing mistakes in the here and now.
KCs 1 step program to being faster:
Step 1) Build some confidence. Be truthful that.. gee that wasn't my best run. But be ready to analyze... WHY it wasn't, where you messed up, and fix it for your next run. Until you can develop those skills, you're just going to be dodging cones as they come at you.
It really is all that simple. Analyzing your performance against other moving targets is not analysis. The only standards you'll have at a local event are those that are consistently on the top of their game. Te only way to find that out, and this might be the answer you're looking for... is to get out to more national events. If this means driving for 1/2 day.... do it.
We can't sit here and tell you what you're doing wrong. That needs to come from either inside, or someone riding shotgun slapping you in the helmet and telling you that was a dumbkoff move.
Video can sometimes tell you, but Data acquisition would be 10x better at showing you ... THIS is where you braked. This is where you overpowered the tires. You didn't accelerate until you were past the apex instead of before. Too much braking? Too much gas? Too much steering input? Other than actually sitting there... Data Aq is the only other 'for sure' way to find out what the car is doing (exactly what the driver tells it to do).
--kC
How can you evaluate your driving, when it's a non static comparison? You're comparing yourself over time against someone else that could have adapted faster or slower than yourself. Or made slight changes that were imperceptible to either.
[QUOTE=D_REX]Basically I just want to identify whether I am getting better or worse over time.[/QUOTE]I understand your plight. There's a really easy answer to this one.
You're always getting better when you not only identify what you did wrong on the previous run, but eliminate it on your next.
If you think you did everything perfectly, you were too slow. :lol:
Wrap your head around that one, and get back to me with what you believe it means. Really... think about that one for a sec.
[QUOTE=D_REX]I understand that I need to improve myself as a driver. This is not about patting myself on the back or an ego boost. As I said in the title this is about self evaluation. I want to determine, for myself, how I am doing.[/QUOTE]How do YOU think YOU'RE doing now? Auto-x is about being in the seat and minimizing mistakes in the here and now.
KCs 1 step program to being faster:
Step 1) Build some confidence. Be truthful that.. gee that wasn't my best run. But be ready to analyze... WHY it wasn't, where you messed up, and fix it for your next run. Until you can develop those skills, you're just going to be dodging cones as they come at you.
It really is all that simple. Analyzing your performance against other moving targets is not analysis. The only standards you'll have at a local event are those that are consistently on the top of their game. Te only way to find that out, and this might be the answer you're looking for... is to get out to more national events. If this means driving for 1/2 day.... do it.
We can't sit here and tell you what you're doing wrong. That needs to come from either inside, or someone riding shotgun slapping you in the helmet and telling you that was a dumbkoff move.
Video can sometimes tell you, but Data acquisition would be 10x better at showing you ... THIS is where you braked. This is where you overpowered the tires. You didn't accelerate until you were past the apex instead of before. Too much braking? Too much gas? Too much steering input? Other than actually sitting there... Data Aq is the only other 'for sure' way to find out what the car is doing (exactly what the driver tells it to do).
--kC
| D_REX | 05-15-2006 02:35 PM |
KC, you seem to be focused on methods for improving performance. While this is certainly the end goal, the topic at hand is determining how effective my chosen method is at improving my performance.
[QUOTE=KC]As you drive better, so could other people in the class. *poof* There goes that metric. [/quote] You seem to ignore the "it's less usefull for determining trends over time."
[QUOTE=KC]How can you evaluate your driving, when it's a non static comparison? You're comparing yourself over time against someone else that could have adapted faster or slower than yourself. Or made slight changes that were imperceptible to either.[/quote]This is the exact problem that I started with, how to create a useful metric.
[QUOTE=KC]As you drive better, so could other people in the class. *poof* There goes that metric. [/quote] You seem to ignore the "it's less usefull for determining trends over time."
[QUOTE=KC]How can you evaluate your driving, when it's a non static comparison? You're comparing yourself over time against someone else that could have adapted faster or slower than yourself. Or made slight changes that were imperceptible to either.[/quote]This is the exact problem that I started with, how to create a useful metric.
| KC | 05-15-2006 02:50 PM |
We need a :bang head: icon. ;)
[QUOTE=KC]How can you evaluate your driving, when it's a non static comparison? You're comparing yourself over time against someone else that could have adapted faster or slower than yourself. Or made slight changes that were imperceptible to either.[/QUOTE]
It was rhetorical. :)
You can't using results/times/finishing positions. You can if you have really precise numbers on how someone else is doing. A control group so to speak. Raw time is the only way to measure in this regard. And that is off of not only those in your class, but those known entities (Like Hollis, or Bollman) for any given event, and only in the same run group as conditions can change from morning to afternoon.
It's a moving target. The only way to judge yourself over time is if you're winning/losing against known tougher competition. In the end, that's all there is to it. Especially using PAX when numbers change every year... all based on how cars did at certain events (both local and national).
There's no math to it at all. No metric. No logic. No nothing. You win, or you lose. You're x seconds away from winning. Or X seconds away from Hollis, or Bollman.
Get out of your pond (usual club/site) and travel to other ponds. National events are where you can REALLY judge where you're at as a driver.
I don't believe there ever could be a metric to compare how well you as a driver are doing year to year. Just how many trophies you acquire. National trophies count double!! :D
You're overthinking it. Overanalyzing it. I bet you're fun at events. "If the wind was blowing 10 mph today, that could effect the lighter cars, and my metric could be off." ;)
Stop thinking. Really. It's not a thinking sport. It's a doing sport. You go out, you do your best run, and you minimize your mistakes while you're out there. That's all there is to it. I can't put it any more simply than that. You get better when you start beating people more often.
So, have you figured this out yet?
[QUOTE]You're always getting better when you not only identify what you did wrong on the previous run, but eliminate it on your next.
If you think you did everything perfectly, you were too slow. [/QUOTE]
--kC
[QUOTE=KC]How can you evaluate your driving, when it's a non static comparison? You're comparing yourself over time against someone else that could have adapted faster or slower than yourself. Or made slight changes that were imperceptible to either.[/QUOTE]
It was rhetorical. :)
You can't using results/times/finishing positions. You can if you have really precise numbers on how someone else is doing. A control group so to speak. Raw time is the only way to measure in this regard. And that is off of not only those in your class, but those known entities (Like Hollis, or Bollman) for any given event, and only in the same run group as conditions can change from morning to afternoon.
It's a moving target. The only way to judge yourself over time is if you're winning/losing against known tougher competition. In the end, that's all there is to it. Especially using PAX when numbers change every year... all based on how cars did at certain events (both local and national).
There's no math to it at all. No metric. No logic. No nothing. You win, or you lose. You're x seconds away from winning. Or X seconds away from Hollis, or Bollman.
Get out of your pond (usual club/site) and travel to other ponds. National events are where you can REALLY judge where you're at as a driver.
I don't believe there ever could be a metric to compare how well you as a driver are doing year to year. Just how many trophies you acquire. National trophies count double!! :D
You're overthinking it. Overanalyzing it. I bet you're fun at events. "If the wind was blowing 10 mph today, that could effect the lighter cars, and my metric could be off." ;)
Stop thinking. Really. It's not a thinking sport. It's a doing sport. You go out, you do your best run, and you minimize your mistakes while you're out there. That's all there is to it. I can't put it any more simply than that. You get better when you start beating people more often.
So, have you figured this out yet?
[QUOTE]You're always getting better when you not only identify what you did wrong on the previous run, but eliminate it on your next.
If you think you did everything perfectly, you were too slow. [/QUOTE]
--kC
| 10th Warrior | 05-15-2006 02:54 PM |
I'm pretty sure he's telling you it doesn't work very effectively and offering a better solution ;)
For me, when I first started (about when you did), I sucked horribly and focused on the next guy up on the local GS food chain, which happened to be pretty strong at the time. I'd talk to others, read books, get rides when I could, and try different things at events. Slowly, I'd improve and start consistantly beating my target competitor and refocus on the next one, until I was at the top of the heap. It was about then I started doing National events which pretty much went the same way, while focusing on Index at local events. In-car footage really helped me pick out little mistakes I was unaware I was making. DA is certainly better, but also pricey. Then, I'd taken my car pretty much as far I could afford to and had developed a pretty good ablity to recognise what was good and not good on any particular run. With faster cars in the class, it was hard to judge how much of the time difference was me vs the car, so I took a co-drive with a very, very talented driver. THAT is the one metric that works. Same car, same tires, same day, same course, same conditions (usually). Sometimes one of us has an off day, but overall, nothing gives you a more accurate idea of what you're doing, especially since you can discuss driving decisions with the other driver. Its been very helpful to me.
For me, when I first started (about when you did), I sucked horribly and focused on the next guy up on the local GS food chain, which happened to be pretty strong at the time. I'd talk to others, read books, get rides when I could, and try different things at events. Slowly, I'd improve and start consistantly beating my target competitor and refocus on the next one, until I was at the top of the heap. It was about then I started doing National events which pretty much went the same way, while focusing on Index at local events. In-car footage really helped me pick out little mistakes I was unaware I was making. DA is certainly better, but also pricey. Then, I'd taken my car pretty much as far I could afford to and had developed a pretty good ablity to recognise what was good and not good on any particular run. With faster cars in the class, it was hard to judge how much of the time difference was me vs the car, so I took a co-drive with a very, very talented driver. THAT is the one metric that works. Same car, same tires, same day, same course, same conditions (usually). Sometimes one of us has an off day, but overall, nothing gives you a more accurate idea of what you're doing, especially since you can discuss driving decisions with the other driver. Its been very helpful to me.
| leecea | 05-15-2006 02:56 PM |
You can't create a reliable, quantifiable method. However, you can make some comparisons with others to keep yourself motivated.
I've gone through periods of comparing myself against a variety of people in my region. I change "targets" as I get better or they get better. Sometimes I pick a faster driver and try to stay within a second of them, other times I pick a similar driver and try to beat them. It;s just fun and not something to get obsesive over.
With regard to PAX, it is usually pretty clear. If you break it down into blocks of 10 (1-10, 11-20, etc) the same subset of drivers is usually in roughly the same position. If I can jump up a block and stay there, I'll feel pretty good about it.
I've gone through periods of comparing myself against a variety of people in my region. I change "targets" as I get better or they get better. Sometimes I pick a faster driver and try to stay within a second of them, other times I pick a similar driver and try to beat them. It;s just fun and not something to get obsesive over.
With regard to PAX, it is usually pretty clear. If you break it down into blocks of 10 (1-10, 11-20, etc) the same subset of drivers is usually in roughly the same position. If I can jump up a block and stay there, I'll feel pretty good about it.
| forced4 | 05-15-2006 05:57 PM |
Dustin: You beat Suarez, now you can retire.
I use my PAX vs. other drivers. Yes I know not all cars are prepped to the max but I do know who can drive and base my results off of them.
Not 100% accurate but when I started to beat other drivers that used to spank me, I knew I was getting somewhat better.
I use my PAX vs. other drivers. Yes I know not all cars are prepped to the max but I do know who can drive and base my results off of them.
Not 100% accurate but when I started to beat other drivers that used to spank me, I knew I was getting somewhat better.
| mykrrrr | 05-15-2006 06:13 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]You're thinking wayyyyy too much about this whole thing.
1st of which.. how long have you been doing this? If you're within your 1st few years... you need more seat time.
After that, the answer is easy... you need even MORE seat time. :)
Percentages don't mean squat. You can use numbers to make yourself look better any day of the week.
Did you win? How far off from 1st were you (both pax and class)? What did you do wrong on the 1st run? Did you botch up a tight corner? A sweeper? A slalom? Did you fix that on your 2nd run? Where did you mess up on your 2nd run? Did you fix it on your third? Where do you think you could have gotten more time based on your driving style vs car setup. What do you need to do as a driver to go faster?
Evaluate your DRIVING not your finishing position. Where you stand doesn't matter squat. How you drive is all that matters. (oh crap.. that sounds very F&F :lol: ) It's true. Don't fixate on how others are beating you, or what their times are. You just need to give it your all on the course.
Improve yoruself as a driver, get seat time, ask for an instructor, go for rides with an instructor, take schools, try different cars, etc.
But the biggest pitfall one can fall into is comparing themselves against others trying to fulfill a need of being better/faster. All that should matter is YOU and how you are doing (on course... less mistakes, more control). Everything else, after time, will fall into place.
But then again, I could be the only one that acts this way.
--kC[/QUOTE]
uuuuuuuuuuuhuh ^^^ what Keith said. :D
1st of which.. how long have you been doing this? If you're within your 1st few years... you need more seat time.
After that, the answer is easy... you need even MORE seat time. :)
Percentages don't mean squat. You can use numbers to make yourself look better any day of the week.
Did you win? How far off from 1st were you (both pax and class)? What did you do wrong on the 1st run? Did you botch up a tight corner? A sweeper? A slalom? Did you fix that on your 2nd run? Where did you mess up on your 2nd run? Did you fix it on your third? Where do you think you could have gotten more time based on your driving style vs car setup. What do you need to do as a driver to go faster?
Evaluate your DRIVING not your finishing position. Where you stand doesn't matter squat. How you drive is all that matters. (oh crap.. that sounds very F&F :lol: ) It's true. Don't fixate on how others are beating you, or what their times are. You just need to give it your all on the course.
Improve yoruself as a driver, get seat time, ask for an instructor, go for rides with an instructor, take schools, try different cars, etc.
But the biggest pitfall one can fall into is comparing themselves against others trying to fulfill a need of being better/faster. All that should matter is YOU and how you are doing (on course... less mistakes, more control). Everything else, after time, will fall into place.
But then again, I could be the only one that acts this way.
--kC[/QUOTE]
uuuuuuuuuuuhuh ^^^ what Keith said. :D
| KC | 05-16-2006 10:35 AM |
Figured it out yet? :)
| randy zimmer | 05-16-2006 11:03 AM |
I know I've been used as a yardstick and I can tell you right now that I suck as a yardstick. Sometimes I could just care less, others, testing a part or setting. If you don't know what's in my head, you can't form a "metric".
Seat-time is the only way to become comfortable enough with your performance to critique yourself without outside data. KC is right, go to other places and find harder competition on unknown surfaces with different suroundings and adapt... Fast.
Practice being calm, confident and in control of your emotions. Make everything go in slow motion and thinking waaay ahead at all times, not just while driving. Wish for uncertainty and unforseen circumstances, deal with them and still do well.
Your times will show it.
rz
Seat-time is the only way to become comfortable enough with your performance to critique yourself without outside data. KC is right, go to other places and find harder competition on unknown surfaces with different suroundings and adapt... Fast.
Practice being calm, confident and in control of your emotions. Make everything go in slow motion and thinking waaay ahead at all times, not just while driving. Wish for uncertainty and unforseen circumstances, deal with them and still do well.
Your times will show it.
rz
| jcroy66 | 05-16-2006 12:20 PM |
I agree with Randy's comments. Even though Phil and I are often at the top of the local event PAX list, using us as yardsticks would be silly. Local events are T&Ts. They really are. I might be practicing and serious, in which case I'd be ok to compare against.
But often (especially as the season progresses), I'll be messing around simply to mess around (to counter the seriousness of the big events). Or testing a new part. Or testing the boundary conditions, like we did at an event last year to test the new DAs. Hmm, what happens if we set full stiff rebound, full soft compression? OK, next run, full stiff rebound and compression. OK, next run, full soft rebound, full stiff compression? Next run, full soft all around. Using me as a yardstick that day would have been insane! (Oh, and I made a few "enemies" that day with the local ESP "my *$#& is bigger than yours" crowd by beating most of them good ole boys in my for'n car on wussy street tires, while not taking the event seriously, and most importantly having the gall to be a GIRL! :lol: :banana: )
Note: above statement is not a reflection on ESP drivers nationwide or elsewhere. Just that most of the ESP drivers at that particular event were vocally disgruntled about my gender, my car, my tires, etc polluting their class.
But often (especially as the season progresses), I'll be messing around simply to mess around (to counter the seriousness of the big events). Or testing a new part. Or testing the boundary conditions, like we did at an event last year to test the new DAs. Hmm, what happens if we set full stiff rebound, full soft compression? OK, next run, full stiff rebound and compression. OK, next run, full soft rebound, full stiff compression? Next run, full soft all around. Using me as a yardstick that day would have been insane! (Oh, and I made a few "enemies" that day with the local ESP "my *$#& is bigger than yours" crowd by beating most of them good ole boys in my for'n car on wussy street tires, while not taking the event seriously, and most importantly having the gall to be a GIRL! :lol: :banana: )
Note: above statement is not a reflection on ESP drivers nationwide or elsewhere. Just that most of the ESP drivers at that particular event were vocally disgruntled about my gender, my car, my tires, etc polluting their class.
| funsti | 05-16-2006 02:29 PM |
The only method you need to quantify how you are doing over time is to count how many mistakes you found and fixed on later runs; proven by improved lap times. Continual self analysis in between each run is the only way to keep improving and the only way to stay on top.
If you are having trouble determining what your mistakes are get a consistent driver who is better than you to pilot your car while you ride. I'm lucky to have a driver like that in my local region but I haven't gotten to ride along lately though :p.
-JWM
If you are having trouble determining what your mistakes are get a consistent driver who is better than you to pilot your car while you ride. I'm lucky to have a driver like that in my local region but I haven't gotten to ride along lately though :p.
-JWM
| sachilles | 05-16-2006 04:06 PM |
Many have touched on it.....my first post here, so take it with a grain of salt.
My local club is not affiliated with the SCCA so our classing is often a bit different. Our lots tend to be smaller. I have gone to a handfull of scca autocrosses. I've also done a few other club motorsports.
I doubt you'll have the smoking gun when comes to finding a concrete metric to measure yourself against. There are too many variables. The big problem with autocross is that the courses are new at every event. At track events, the course stays the same, so at least you can compare previous times at that track to see if you've improved.
For me, I evaluate myself within each event, not one event compared to another. As far as I'm concerned, If my current run is faster than my previous run then I think I'm doing ok. If I look back at my times for the day, hopefully I see the times drop consistantly.
How do I know if I've improved over the season? I'm lucky that my club rents a track 2 or 3 times a season....its a small road course, and we run it as an autocross. So we've run the same course for several years. I guage my times against my history there. Sometimes a modification may have happened, so I need to adjust for that(tires being the big one). Most aren't lucky enough to have that bench mark.
I would love it if the final autocross of the season(even if it was unofficial) had the same course as the first of the season. It would really help you to KNOW you are doing better, but that isn't a reality.
The other way to gauge my performance is find a couple of people you identify with. If you find you are having similiar times, keep watching them over time. You'll both progress(I hope). See if one of you seems to be improving at a faster rate than the others. I'm lucky enough to have a guy in my club that on any given day, he could beat me or vice versa. What makes this unique is that we have changed cars over that time period as well as modification relative to each car. We still finish close.
Lastly, our club does "fun runs". I know not every club does that....which I think you are missing out on.....as fun is why you are there (some of you are way to serious). We have fun runs at the end of the day. At this point, you can donate a dollar to the club's charity of the year, and you can take a run on the course(that doesn't count to the standings). We often switch cars with one another. I prefer to switch cars with someone that beat me. Hopefully they don't beat me in my own car....but if they do, its obvious that you can do something better. I enjoy seeing someone flog my car, especially when I know they are a better driver than me....you learn an awful lot from it.
You may never find a stat that will give you the info you need. Push yourself to be better at every event. Assume when someone beats you, its not because their car has more mods, its because they drove better than you that day. Be happy with yourself, if your run times decrease through the day.
Aim for clean runs every time. Don't be afraid to try new things. Have fun.
I also suggest trying as many different types of cars as you can.
I've owned a few that I have autocrossed. mk3 vw jetta, mk3 vw GTi, 61 Morris Mini, 97 Audi A4 1.8tq, and hopefully soon a 02 wrx wagon. Different cars handle differently and teach you different skills.
My local club is not affiliated with the SCCA so our classing is often a bit different. Our lots tend to be smaller. I have gone to a handfull of scca autocrosses. I've also done a few other club motorsports.
I doubt you'll have the smoking gun when comes to finding a concrete metric to measure yourself against. There are too many variables. The big problem with autocross is that the courses are new at every event. At track events, the course stays the same, so at least you can compare previous times at that track to see if you've improved.
For me, I evaluate myself within each event, not one event compared to another. As far as I'm concerned, If my current run is faster than my previous run then I think I'm doing ok. If I look back at my times for the day, hopefully I see the times drop consistantly.
How do I know if I've improved over the season? I'm lucky that my club rents a track 2 or 3 times a season....its a small road course, and we run it as an autocross. So we've run the same course for several years. I guage my times against my history there. Sometimes a modification may have happened, so I need to adjust for that(tires being the big one). Most aren't lucky enough to have that bench mark.
I would love it if the final autocross of the season(even if it was unofficial) had the same course as the first of the season. It would really help you to KNOW you are doing better, but that isn't a reality.
The other way to gauge my performance is find a couple of people you identify with. If you find you are having similiar times, keep watching them over time. You'll both progress(I hope). See if one of you seems to be improving at a faster rate than the others. I'm lucky enough to have a guy in my club that on any given day, he could beat me or vice versa. What makes this unique is that we have changed cars over that time period as well as modification relative to each car. We still finish close.
Lastly, our club does "fun runs". I know not every club does that....which I think you are missing out on.....as fun is why you are there (some of you are way to serious). We have fun runs at the end of the day. At this point, you can donate a dollar to the club's charity of the year, and you can take a run on the course(that doesn't count to the standings). We often switch cars with one another. I prefer to switch cars with someone that beat me. Hopefully they don't beat me in my own car....but if they do, its obvious that you can do something better. I enjoy seeing someone flog my car, especially when I know they are a better driver than me....you learn an awful lot from it.
You may never find a stat that will give you the info you need. Push yourself to be better at every event. Assume when someone beats you, its not because their car has more mods, its because they drove better than you that day. Be happy with yourself, if your run times decrease through the day.
Aim for clean runs every time. Don't be afraid to try new things. Have fun.
I also suggest trying as many different types of cars as you can.
I've owned a few that I have autocrossed. mk3 vw jetta, mk3 vw GTi, 61 Morris Mini, 97 Audi A4 1.8tq, and hopefully soon a 02 wrx wagon. Different cars handle differently and teach you different skills.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét