| TravisSTi | 02-15-2006 09:42 PM |
Solo Category Question
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Quick question. I read the Solo Rules, but just want to make sure I'm reading ti right.
I have a 2004 2.5 STI with UTEC(controls boost, timing, Fuel, Non Stock Maps) AVCR, TBE, Intake, O2 Wideband, stock Turbo, Stock TMIC. Would I have to race in the Street Prepared Category? or can I run in Street Touring STU? STX?
Thanks,
Travis
I have a 2004 2.5 STI with UTEC(controls boost, timing, Fuel, Non Stock Maps) AVCR, TBE, Intake, O2 Wideband, stock Turbo, Stock TMIC. Would I have to race in the Street Prepared Category? or can I run in Street Touring STU? STX?
Thanks,
Travis
| 10th Warrior | 02-15-2006 09:49 PM |
you have to run in BSP because of boost.
| TravisSTi | 02-15-2006 10:51 PM |
So BSP would follow the Street Prepared Category rules or are there different rules to follow? Thanks again
| solo2wrx | 02-15-2006 10:53 PM |
BSP stands for B Street Prepared. So yes you would follow the Street Prepared rules. Here is a link to the rulebook.
[URL=http://scca.com/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf]2006 Rules[/URL]
[URL=http://scca.com/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf]2006 Rules[/URL]
| VpointVick | 02-16-2006 07:01 AM |
If you ran a map that left the boost alone you could run in STU.
| KC | 02-16-2006 07:42 AM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]If you ran a map that left the boost alone you could run in STU.[/QUOTE]
Not with the UTEC. The UTEC, at this time, is not legal for any ST class. There are works afoot to have the wording in the engine management section fixed.
The UTEC is illegal because you cannot alter ANY signal coming out of the ECU. You can only modify a) the signal going INTO the ECU or b) re-program or replace the ECU in the stock housing. There's no wording allowing the alteration of signals post ECU. The argument is.. what's the difference between that, and the change within the ECU? That's what's being worked on.
--kC
Not with the UTEC. The UTEC, at this time, is not legal for any ST class. There are works afoot to have the wording in the engine management section fixed.
The UTEC is illegal because you cannot alter ANY signal coming out of the ECU. You can only modify a) the signal going INTO the ECU or b) re-program or replace the ECU in the stock housing. There's no wording allowing the alteration of signals post ECU. The argument is.. what's the difference between that, and the change within the ECU? That's what's being worked on.
--kC
| VpointVick | 02-16-2006 07:47 AM |
My bad.
That further reinforces my decision to buy an Access Port.
That further reinforces my decision to buy an Access Port.
| AtomicRacer | 02-16-2006 09:41 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]Not with the UTEC. The UTEC, at this time, is not legal for any ST class. There are works afoot to have the wording in the engine management section fixed.
The UTEC is illegal because you cannot alter ANY signal coming out of the ECU. You can only modify a) the signal going INTO the ECU or b) re-program or replace the ECU in the stock housing. There's no wording allowing the alteration of signals post ECU. The argument is.. what's the difference between that, and the change within the ECU? That's what's being worked on.
--kC[/QUOTE]
I am curious to see how this works out. I don't see any reason why the UTEC should be illegal for ST unless I am missing something about the way it operates. I would think so long as none of the signels affecting boost, etc are not altered/modified it would be legal and within the realm of the intention of the rules.
-Paul
The UTEC is illegal because you cannot alter ANY signal coming out of the ECU. You can only modify a) the signal going INTO the ECU or b) re-program or replace the ECU in the stock housing. There's no wording allowing the alteration of signals post ECU. The argument is.. what's the difference between that, and the change within the ECU? That's what's being worked on.
--kC[/QUOTE]
I am curious to see how this works out. I don't see any reason why the UTEC should be illegal for ST unless I am missing something about the way it operates. I would think so long as none of the signels affecting boost, etc are not altered/modified it would be legal and within the realm of the intention of the rules.
-Paul
| KC | 02-16-2006 09:50 AM |
There are a coule people trying to get this issue resolved. I agree it should be allowed, but the way the rules are *worded* it is not. The UTEC modifies signals *after* the ECU. The rules state only changes before the ECU are allowed.
Logic states... if you can re-program the ECU itself, why can't you run an external legally programmed engine management unit like the UTEC? That's what's being worked on and is currently not legal... it's not even within the intention of the rules to allow it since there is verbage clearly stating *before*.
--kC
Logic states... if you can re-program the ECU itself, why can't you run an external legally programmed engine management unit like the UTEC? That's what's being worked on and is currently not legal... it's not even within the intention of the rules to allow it since there is verbage clearly stating *before*.
--kC
| fliz | 02-16-2006 10:00 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]There are a coule people trying to get this issue resolved. I agree it should be allowed, but the way the rules are *worded* it is not. The UTEC modifies signals *after* the ECU. The rules state only changes before the ECU are allowed.
Logic states... if you can re-program the ECU itself, why can't you run an external legally programmed engine management unit like the UTEC? That's what's being worked on and is currently not legal... it's not even within the intention of the rules to allow it since there is verbage clearly stating *before*.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Do you think they will fix the issue once by allowing any ECU, i.e. standalone's, or will they only allow piggybacks, and then have to change the rule in another year or two to allow standalones?
Logic states... if you can re-program the ECU itself, why can't you run an external legally programmed engine management unit like the UTEC? That's what's being worked on and is currently not legal... it's not even within the intention of the rules to allow it since there is verbage clearly stating *before*.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Do you think they will fix the issue once by allowing any ECU, i.e. standalone's, or will they only allow piggybacks, and then have to change the rule in another year or two to allow standalones?
| KC | 02-16-2006 10:21 AM |
No idea.
| D_REX | 02-16-2006 10:30 AM |
Even if the UTEC becomes legal through a change in the wording you will need to do more than change the boost map to make it legal. It's pretty trivial to modify the wiring so that the boost control solenoid wire doesn't pass through the UTEC and this is what I would suggest you do.
| Car vs. Driver | 02-16-2006 11:04 AM |
In additoin to the above, you cannot run catless in STU. You'll need at least one cat in place, no more than 6" from the factory location. Also, for STU, you cannot run a modified boost map.
| Scooby921 | 02-16-2006 11:28 AM |
Can't he also run SM?
| VpointVick | 02-16-2006 11:36 AM |
[QUOTE=Car vs. Driver]In additoin to the above, you cannot run catless in STU. You'll need at least one cat in place, no more than 6" from the factory location. Also, for STU, you cannot run a modified boost map.[/QUOTE]
He didn't say he was catless, he could be running a catted TBE.
He didn't say he was catless, he could be running a catted TBE.
| SloRice | 02-16-2006 11:55 AM |
you can still run catless in BSP.
| Car vs. Driver | 02-16-2006 12:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby921]Can't he also run SM?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
[quote=VpointVick]
He didn't say he was catless, he could be running a catted TBE.
[/quote]
Yeah, but I think it still needed to be pointed out just in case. Most people with a TBE are catless.
Yes.
[quote=VpointVick]
He didn't say he was catless, he could be running a catted TBE.
[/quote]
Yeah, but I think it still needed to be pointed out just in case. Most people with a TBE are catless.
| crystalhelix | 02-16-2006 03:20 PM |
[QUOTE=SloRice]you can still run catless in BSP.[/QUOTE]
You should if you're running leaded gas. :devil:
You should if you're running leaded gas. :devil:
| TravisSTi | 02-16-2006 04:25 PM |
Ok, technically my Apexi AVCR controls the boost, and the UTEC controls the Fuel and Timing. So if I got rid of the UTEC and AVCR, then in place of that I could get an ECUTEK reflash (which one could raise boost with). Then could I run in STU?
I also have a TurboXS TBE with a High flow cat
I also have a TurboXS TBE with a High flow cat
| Car vs. Driver | 02-16-2006 04:27 PM |
Do you have any other suspension mods? As long as your reflash doesn't alter boost, you should be good to go.
You may be better off going with an accessport or something similar where you can run a modified map all day, then flash to an STU map for autocross.
You may be better off going with an accessport or something similar where you can run a modified map all day, then flash to an STU map for autocross.
| TravisSTi | 02-16-2006 04:38 PM |
I plan on building the suspension for the class I can race in. So at this point I dont have any suspension mods.
Now if I could run Accessport, with its map switching functions how could they verify that I ran a legal map? Or do we just hope I'm honest?
Now if I could run Accessport, with its map switching functions how could they verify that I ran a legal map? Or do we just hope I'm honest?
| solo2wrx | 02-16-2006 05:11 PM |
[QUOTE=TravisSTi]Now if I could run Accessport, with its map switching functions how could they verify that I ran a legal map? Or do we just hope I'm honest?[/QUOTE]
You run it and hope you don't get protested at higher level competitions. There has been a huge constant discussion about turbo cars and boost policing in street touring. You can run the Accessport and just stay honest and run a map that doesn't alter boost.
You run it and hope you don't get protested at higher level competitions. There has been a huge constant discussion about turbo cars and boost policing in street touring. You can run the Accessport and just stay honest and run a map that doesn't alter boost.
| Car vs. Driver | 02-16-2006 05:50 PM |
Yeah, it's like a newspaper box ... you have to be honest about it. At a local level, it's unlikely that you'll be protested, but it can happen. Nationals, well, you're more likely to be protested.
So, use your head, don't cheat and have some fun.
PM me if you want any suspension suggestions though :)
So, use your head, don't cheat and have some fun.
PM me if you want any suspension suggestions though :)
| crystalhelix | 02-16-2006 09:04 PM |
[QUOTE=solo2wrx]You run it and hope you don't get protested at higher level competitions. There has been a huge constant discussion about turbo cars and boost policing in street touring. You can run the Accessport and just stay honest and run a map that doesn't alter boost.[/QUOTE]
Don't they impound your AP when your ready? So you can't switch maps.
Don't they impound your AP when your ready? So you can't switch maps.
| KC | 02-16-2006 09:29 PM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix]Don't they impound your AP when your ready? So you can't switch maps.[/QUOTE]
:lol: No. There is no impounding of cars at Nationals until AFTER the runs have been done... and at that, it's not a real impound with scruteneers watching the cars.
:lol: No. There is no impounding of cars at Nationals until AFTER the runs have been done... and at that, it's not a real impound with scruteneers watching the cars.
| crystalhelix | 02-16-2006 09:38 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]:lol: No. There is no impounding of cars at Nationals until AFTER the runs have been done... and at that, it's not a real impound with scruteneers watching the cars.[/QUOTE]
I had thought there was a way to volunteer it up when you got to the event to prove you weren't changing maps. I don't know anything about the AP so I'll bow right out of this conversation following this post, lol
J
You should be a "scruteneer" - Is that a real word or is that like "strategery"
I had thought there was a way to volunteer it up when you got to the event to prove you weren't changing maps. I don't know anything about the AP so I'll bow right out of this conversation following this post, lol
J
You should be a "scruteneer" - Is that a real word or is that like "strategery"
| Car vs. Driver | 02-17-2006 07:02 AM |
Nah, if you go to an event you're the only one that really knows what maps your're running. Technically, you could lie and say, "I've got all these bolt ons and no EM." When in reality you have a stage 2 map...
Again, it's about being honest. However, it usually isn't difficult to tl tell when an STi is running more boost - they tend to behave a bit differently ;)
Again, it's about being honest. However, it usually isn't difficult to tl tell when an STi is running more boost - they tend to behave a bit differently ;)
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