| toulakid | 02-21-2007 03:54 AM |
some pics of dry carbon fiber products?
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i was thinkin bout sandin down my hood scoop and leaving it dry,but first i want to see some pics of some other dry carbon fiber products installed on cars. im just tired of that glossy carbon fiber look.
| captain_dingaling | 02-21-2007 03:59 AM |
i hate to break it to you bud but dry carbon is a process not a look...
[QUOTE]taken from seibon's website:
Dry vs. wet involves completely different processes of manufacturing. You can find extensive articles about the details on the web if you do a general search. As for pros and cons, here is a brief summary: Simply put, with dry carbon, you get the most strength and save the most weight. The weaves and quality are more consistent, but they are generally 3 to 4 times more expensive than wet carbon. Wet carbon products are hand-laid, and are more prone to small defects like wavy weaves and tiny bubbles. They do not save as much weight as their dry carbon counterparts. But on the plus side, you get an incredible combination of visual attraction, weight-deduction, and most importantly, price. All products you see on our website are wet carbon. Wet carbon products are also the most popular and most commonly referred to as just " carbon fiber[/QUOTE]
i know the look your going for though. One of the VW GTI's at the sema show had some matte finish clear vinyl on a large portion of its wet CF, it looked sweet almost like dry carbon but with a crapload more weight. thats probably the route you want to go vs. sanding which i think will ultimately ruin it.
[QUOTE]taken from seibon's website:
Dry vs. wet involves completely different processes of manufacturing. You can find extensive articles about the details on the web if you do a general search. As for pros and cons, here is a brief summary: Simply put, with dry carbon, you get the most strength and save the most weight. The weaves and quality are more consistent, but they are generally 3 to 4 times more expensive than wet carbon. Wet carbon products are hand-laid, and are more prone to small defects like wavy weaves and tiny bubbles. They do not save as much weight as their dry carbon counterparts. But on the plus side, you get an incredible combination of visual attraction, weight-deduction, and most importantly, price. All products you see on our website are wet carbon. Wet carbon products are also the most popular and most commonly referred to as just " carbon fiber[/QUOTE]
i know the look your going for though. One of the VW GTI's at the sema show had some matte finish clear vinyl on a large portion of its wet CF, it looked sweet almost like dry carbon but with a crapload more weight. thats probably the route you want to go vs. sanding which i think will ultimately ruin it.
| toulakid | 02-21-2007 04:20 AM |
how can i do this
| Russell Rogers | 02-21-2007 11:22 AM |
do you have an autoclave. if not then don't try. Dry Carbon is hard to get to look right and is very expensive.
| eric rxb | 02-21-2007 11:50 AM |
[QUOTE=Russell Rogers;17127707]do you have an autoclave. if not then don't try. Dry Carbon is hard to get to look right and is very expensive.[/QUOTE]
Dry carbon isn't a "look." It's the result of a process that is purely functional, not aesthetic. I know Cobb has a car that has a completely dry CF exterior, and most people would say it looks like crap, even though it's done correctly.
Dry carbon isn't a "look." It's the result of a process that is purely functional, not aesthetic. I know Cobb has a car that has a completely dry CF exterior, and most people would say it looks like crap, even though it's done correctly.
| [email�protected] | 02-21-2007 11:59 AM |
[QUOTE=eric rxb;17128098]Dry carbon isn't a "look." It's the result of a process that is purely functional, not aesthetic. I know Cobb has a car that has a completely dry CF exterior, and most people would say it looks like crap, even though it's done correctly.[/QUOTE]
close :)
"dry"carbon is prepreg material. it must be kept in a freezer, then thaw'd laid up then at a minimum vac bagged and cured in an oven. 99% of the time you are seeing a hand laid up WET layup. this will give the glossy finish that you see most of the time.
The COBB Carbon car is hand laid up then vac bagged to remove the excess resin. afterwards the car was lightly sanded with some scotchbrite to remove the sheen. i know because we did the car in our shop :)
right now we are doing a full carbon/kevlar 360 F1 for a customer. this car is being done in prepreg. and hte cost is 3-4X as much. FYI prepreg Carbon/kevlar is going for 7-10 bucks a sqft and is only 0.010 thick. most parts will need at least 4-5 layers to be strong enough for race use.
Tom
20+ years composite experience.
close :)
"dry"carbon is prepreg material. it must be kept in a freezer, then thaw'd laid up then at a minimum vac bagged and cured in an oven. 99% of the time you are seeing a hand laid up WET layup. this will give the glossy finish that you see most of the time.
The COBB Carbon car is hand laid up then vac bagged to remove the excess resin. afterwards the car was lightly sanded with some scotchbrite to remove the sheen. i know because we did the car in our shop :)
right now we are doing a full carbon/kevlar 360 F1 for a customer. this car is being done in prepreg. and hte cost is 3-4X as much. FYI prepreg Carbon/kevlar is going for 7-10 bucks a sqft and is only 0.010 thick. most parts will need at least 4-5 layers to be strong enough for race use.
Tom
20+ years composite experience.
| Mechie3 | 02-21-2007 12:04 PM |
Tom,
Any chance your company will make some CF parts (wet, for the glossy look) for the 06+ subies? I especially like the LNR CF engine dress up kit, but it says it's for an 02, and has had some cracking issues.
Any chance your company will make some CF parts (wet, for the glossy look) for the 06+ subies? I especially like the LNR CF engine dress up kit, but it says it's for an 02, and has had some cracking issues.
| [email�protected] | 02-21-2007 12:07 PM |
[QUOTE=Mechie3;17128270]Tom,
Any chance your company will make some CF parts (wet, for the glossy look) for the 06+ subies? I especially like the LNR CF engine dress up kit, but it says it's for an 02, and has had some cracking issues.[/QUOTE]
possibly. once the 360 is out of the shop i might still have the desire to make some more parts :lol:
Tom
Any chance your company will make some CF parts (wet, for the glossy look) for the 06+ subies? I especially like the LNR CF engine dress up kit, but it says it's for an 02, and has had some cracking issues.[/QUOTE]
possibly. once the 360 is out of the shop i might still have the desire to make some more parts :lol:
Tom
| Beef Patty | 02-21-2007 12:14 PM |
Personally i love dry carbon. Since you have a bug eye why not just get the c-west dry carbon hood scoop. they weigh like nothing and look incredible. those are just my thoughts.
| Garage Spec | 02-21-2007 12:19 PM |
[quote=Beef Patty;17128423]Personally i love dry carbon. Since you have a bug eye why not just get the c-west dry carbon hood scoop. they weigh like nothing and look incredible. those are just my thoughts.[/quote]
C-west hood is not Dry carbon. Otherwise it would cost you upward of $3000+
C-West hood is made of PCC ([SIZE=-1][B]Polyester [/B][B]Carbon Composite[/B])[/SIZE]
C-west hood is not Dry carbon. Otherwise it would cost you upward of $3000+
C-West hood is made of PCC ([SIZE=-1][B]Polyester [/B][B]Carbon Composite[/B])[/SIZE]
| Mechie3 | 02-21-2007 12:36 PM |
[[email�protected];17128316]possibly. once the 360 is out of the shop i might still have the desire to make some more parts :lol:
Tom[/QUOTE]
Make sure you post pics from that too!
Tom[/QUOTE]
Make sure you post pics from that too!
| [email�protected] | 02-21-2007 02:11 PM |
[QUOTE=Mechie3;17128717]Make sure you post pics from that too![/QUOTE]
i'll see what i can do. right now its all torn appart making the tooling. after that car is gone we might get his 430 to do the same thing...
the 360 is one of a handfull novitec twin supercharged cars. its only another 100 hp but i think 300 more ftlb tq LOL
Tom
i'll see what i can do. right now its all torn appart making the tooling. after that car is gone we might get his 430 to do the same thing...
the 360 is one of a handfull novitec twin supercharged cars. its only another 100 hp but i think 300 more ftlb tq LOL
Tom
| twizzstyle | 02-21-2007 03:21 PM |
[img]http://vliegtuighomepage.nl/b787boe.jpg[/img]
:lol: There's a "dry carbon" product for you.
I've always hated the name dry carbon. But as its been explained, its just pre-preg fiber. Much more expensive, but the resin-to-fiber ratio is optimized for best strength-to-weight and much more consistent then a wet layup (which is done by hand). You have to keep the cloth in a freezer until its time to layup, which involves an autoclave (or at the very least a large oven)
:lol: There's a "dry carbon" product for you.
I've always hated the name dry carbon. But as its been explained, its just pre-preg fiber. Much more expensive, but the resin-to-fiber ratio is optimized for best strength-to-weight and much more consistent then a wet layup (which is done by hand). You have to keep the cloth in a freezer until its time to layup, which involves an autoclave (or at the very least a large oven)
| toulakid | 02-22-2007 06:43 PM |
[[email�protected];17128316]possibly. once the 360 is out of the shop i might still have the desire to make some more parts :lol:
Tom[/QUOTE]
hi tom i had a question,it seems like u know alot about carbon fiber products,also it seems like all these carbon(Wet) products are not at all serving a purpose besides shaving a little bit of weight. ARE THESE PRODUCTS REALLY STRONGER THAN THE OEM PRODUCTS?.my opinion is no because they are just put together for looks simply because the weave is not tight enough to have strength
Tom[/QUOTE]
hi tom i had a question,it seems like u know alot about carbon fiber products,also it seems like all these carbon(Wet) products are not at all serving a purpose besides shaving a little bit of weight. ARE THESE PRODUCTS REALLY STRONGER THAN THE OEM PRODUCTS?.my opinion is no because they are just put together for looks simply because the weave is not tight enough to have strength
| stentorian | 02-22-2007 09:13 PM |
Here is some "dry" carbon fiber for you. This piece is just some scrap I had that I took a pic of awhile back.
[IMG]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6cf26b3127cce8edc07401a4600000016108AasWjdkzYtn[/IMG]
-Joe
[IMG]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6cf26b3127cce8edc07401a4600000016108AasWjdkzYtn[/IMG]
-Joe
| [email�protected] | 02-22-2007 09:17 PM |
[QUOTE=toulakid;17147459]hi tom i had a question,it seems like u know alot about carbon fiber products,also it seems like all these carbon(Wet) products are not at all serving a purpose besides shaving a little bit of weight. ARE THESE PRODUCTS REALLY STRONGER THAN THE OEM PRODUCTS?.my opinion is no because they are just put together for looks simply because the weave is not tight enough to have strength[/QUOTE]
well i do know a few things about composites but i am not the master :lol:
99% of the carbon parts you see coming out from shops are just a single layer of carbon. the rest is matt fiberglass with black resin to make you think its all carbon.. worst off its almost always vinylester or polyester. in other words junk.
the 360 we are doing is a track only so weight is the first priority on the car.
Tom
well i do know a few things about composites but i am not the master :lol:
99% of the carbon parts you see coming out from shops are just a single layer of carbon. the rest is matt fiberglass with black resin to make you think its all carbon.. worst off its almost always vinylester or polyester. in other words junk.
the 360 we are doing is a track only so weight is the first priority on the car.
Tom
| JRL | 02-22-2007 09:22 PM |
[QUOTE=toulakid;17147459]hi tom i had a question,it seems like u know alot about carbon fiber products,also it seems like all these carbon(Wet) products are not at all serving a purpose besides shaving a little bit of weight. ARE THESE PRODUCTS REALLY STRONGER THAN THE OEM PRODUCTS?.my opinion is no because they are just put together for looks simply because the weave is not tight enough to have strength[/QUOTE]
Almost all of the aftermarket products you or anyone buys for their car made of carbon fiber is going to be weaker than the OEM part it replaced.
Most of the time all your getting is one layer of carbon and then followed by single or bi directional fiberglass cloth (thats the higher end parts). Cheaper parts are carbon or black fiberglass followed by chopped strand mat fiberglass. Chop strand is among the weakest of all glass.
If you were to get a true 100% carbon fiber hood, and that is stronger than your OEM hood. You would be paying way, way, over $1000. And costs fluctuate depending on weave pattern, cloth weight, current carbon fiber market price, and method of layup. Autoclaved parts are HUGE money. Resin infused and Pre-preg parts are equal in quality depending on the skill level of the person infusing. Regular wet layup then bagged hoods requires the most labor, employee skill, and has the highest risk of defects...... and is way not worth it.
You also gotta remember most of these parts are produced outside the U.S. Or if they are manufactured here in the U.S. there more often than not made by illegal alliens. Just look at the boat yards in southern FL and youll see what I mean. The composite industry is not a pretty one.
Theres several ways for manufacturers to cover up errors also. Like black pigmented epoxy, magic markers, or covering up known voids because you know it will be on a part of the part no one will ever see. For instance a Nissan 350Z drive shaft, if dropped on the ground on accident, is considered garbage due to the fagile nature of CF (even though visibly it may look ok). So a hood which the manufacturer ships to you with a known defect that has been covered up because their about money (and not quality) is definietly going to be weak.
Another aspect of Dry vs Wet is wheather or not the producer uses a surface coat or not. Surface coats consist of a pre brushed/sprayed polyester or epoxy coat sprayed into the mold before the cloth layup begins. They can add up to a pound or two in weight on each side of the hood (the hood itself and under brace).
Almost all of the aftermarket products you or anyone buys for their car made of carbon fiber is going to be weaker than the OEM part it replaced.
Most of the time all your getting is one layer of carbon and then followed by single or bi directional fiberglass cloth (thats the higher end parts). Cheaper parts are carbon or black fiberglass followed by chopped strand mat fiberglass. Chop strand is among the weakest of all glass.
If you were to get a true 100% carbon fiber hood, and that is stronger than your OEM hood. You would be paying way, way, over $1000. And costs fluctuate depending on weave pattern, cloth weight, current carbon fiber market price, and method of layup. Autoclaved parts are HUGE money. Resin infused and Pre-preg parts are equal in quality depending on the skill level of the person infusing. Regular wet layup then bagged hoods requires the most labor, employee skill, and has the highest risk of defects...... and is way not worth it.
You also gotta remember most of these parts are produced outside the U.S. Or if they are manufactured here in the U.S. there more often than not made by illegal alliens. Just look at the boat yards in southern FL and youll see what I mean. The composite industry is not a pretty one.
Theres several ways for manufacturers to cover up errors also. Like black pigmented epoxy, magic markers, or covering up known voids because you know it will be on a part of the part no one will ever see. For instance a Nissan 350Z drive shaft, if dropped on the ground on accident, is considered garbage due to the fagile nature of CF (even though visibly it may look ok). So a hood which the manufacturer ships to you with a known defect that has been covered up because their about money (and not quality) is definietly going to be weak.
Another aspect of Dry vs Wet is wheather or not the producer uses a surface coat or not. Surface coats consist of a pre brushed/sprayed polyester or epoxy coat sprayed into the mold before the cloth layup begins. They can add up to a pound or two in weight on each side of the hood (the hood itself and under brace).
| toulakid | 02-22-2007 09:26 PM |
:lol: so runnin around with cf trunk...doors and hood would be a disaster waiting to happen...and the carbon products are worthless when it comes to weight savings and strength... , .....espically with doors...if a wrx were to roll i can imagine the wet carbon fiber doors disenegrating
| JRL | 02-22-2007 09:35 PM |
[QUOTE=toulakid;17149182] i asked this because i notied when lookin through my wrx pass out u can almost see straight through the trunk[/QUOTE]You can see through it because when only 1 single layer of carbon is used on the surface it wont acutally cover every square inch of the surface of the mold. So you get a bunch of little pin holes allowing you to see the following layers of glass. And the glass behind it is nearly transparent.
On some of the military parts I make you can still see through 8 layers of 8oz satin weave E-glass. Satin weave is one of the tightest woven cloths around.
Composite car parts are not a waste of money. They do save weight in most cases. But dont expect them to take more abuse or be stronger than OEM parts. If you want strong carbon youll have to do one-off type runs, and expect to pay a one off price.
On some of the military parts I make you can still see through 8 layers of 8oz satin weave E-glass. Satin weave is one of the tightest woven cloths around.
Composite car parts are not a waste of money. They do save weight in most cases. But dont expect them to take more abuse or be stronger than OEM parts. If you want strong carbon youll have to do one-off type runs, and expect to pay a one off price.
| wrrrx | 02-22-2007 10:37 PM |
Hmm- thanks for the cool info, JRL!
Dang, I was sort of hoping I could shed some poundage by going w/ a cf trunk and OEM-look rear spoiler.
I think the trunk would be fine, but now I'm a bit leery of a cf wing, since I do track days... :(
Is there anything I should look for to determine if a spoiler might be track-worthy?
Thanks for any help,
Russ R
Dang, I was sort of hoping I could shed some poundage by going w/ a cf trunk and OEM-look rear spoiler.
I think the trunk would be fine, but now I'm a bit leery of a cf wing, since I do track days... :(
Is there anything I should look for to determine if a spoiler might be track-worthy?
Thanks for any help,
Russ R
| JRL | 02-22-2007 11:54 PM |
[QUOTE=wrrrx;17149822]Hmm- thanks for the cool info, JRL!
Dang, I was sort of hoping I could shed some poundage by going w/ a cf trunk and OEM-look rear spoiler.
I think the trunk would be fine, but now I'm a bit leery of a cf wing, since I do track days... :(
Is there anything I should look for to determine if a spoiler might be track-worthy?
Thanks for any help,
Russ R[/QUOTE]
A composite spoiler IS track worthy. Composites ARE strong. Fiberglass, Carbon, Kevlar...they are all strong. Stronger than lets say an OEM aluminum part? Probably not. But will it hold up to 100+ mile per hour winds, and make your car lighter? yes...more often than not.
My posts above were informational on how mis-leading some of these bigger companies marketing is. They use existing true info (like carbon being strong) and twist it to their advantage saying their product is carbon, when its more glass than carbon, and not even high quality glass for that matter.
A product made of 100% carbon, or, carbon mixed with aerospace S2 fiberglass....now your in business. Then you can compare strength, otherwise its just a weight savings game.
Dang, I was sort of hoping I could shed some poundage by going w/ a cf trunk and OEM-look rear spoiler.
I think the trunk would be fine, but now I'm a bit leery of a cf wing, since I do track days... :(
Is there anything I should look for to determine if a spoiler might be track-worthy?
Thanks for any help,
Russ R[/QUOTE]
A composite spoiler IS track worthy. Composites ARE strong. Fiberglass, Carbon, Kevlar...they are all strong. Stronger than lets say an OEM aluminum part? Probably not. But will it hold up to 100+ mile per hour winds, and make your car lighter? yes...more often than not.
My posts above were informational on how mis-leading some of these bigger companies marketing is. They use existing true info (like carbon being strong) and twist it to their advantage saying their product is carbon, when its more glass than carbon, and not even high quality glass for that matter.
A product made of 100% carbon, or, carbon mixed with aerospace S2 fiberglass....now your in business. Then you can compare strength, otherwise its just a weight savings game.
| St0k3d | 02-23-2007 12:19 PM |
excellent thread guys... one of the few in a while where i learned somthing and i didnt have to sift through a ton of arguing/garbage
| steve | 02-23-2007 12:56 PM |
Tom, I'm hoping that you can post some pics of the carbon 360 one day.
That seems like it would be a dream project, with a customer who can appreciate the balance of funding versus weight.
I'd be that way too..... if I won the Powerball.
:lol:
That seems like it would be a dream project, with a customer who can appreciate the balance of funding versus weight.
I'd be that way too..... if I won the Powerball.
:lol:
| stentorian | 02-23-2007 02:56 PM |
[[email�protected];17128211]close :)
most parts will need at least 4-5 layers to be strong enough for race use.
Tom
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, only 4-5 layers? I'd think it would be need to be more, guess not. I think that pic I posted is about 5 layers if I remember correctly.
-Joe
most parts will need at least 4-5 layers to be strong enough for race use.
Tom
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, only 4-5 layers? I'd think it would be need to be more, guess not. I think that pic I posted is about 5 layers if I remember correctly.
-Joe
| [email�protected] | 02-23-2007 03:32 PM |
[QUOTE=stentorian;17156585]Hmmm, only 4-5 layers? I'd think it would be need to be more, guess not. I think that pic I posted is about 5 layers if I remember correctly.
-Joe[/QUOTE]
it all depends on the part, the nominal thickness of the material, etc
the hood i just did was an inner and outer skin bonded together. it was a quazisotropic layup, weighing in at a scant 4.5 pounds finished :)
-Joe[/QUOTE]
it all depends on the part, the nominal thickness of the material, etc
the hood i just did was an inner and outer skin bonded together. it was a quazisotropic layup, weighing in at a scant 4.5 pounds finished :)
| 105wrx | 02-23-2007 03:50 PM |
damn tom that 360 is still in the shop...was there when i first helped you move..should have sat in it when i was there gah!...
Chris
Chris
| [email�protected] | 02-23-2007 04:03 PM |
[QUOTE=105wrx;17157195]damn tom that 360 is still in the shop...was there when i first helped you move..should have sat in it when i was there gah!...
Chris[/QUOTE]
i know...
it was on hold for a long time. now were going full out on it.
we had a rocket project for Space X and the cobb car to get through the shop before we started the 360.
t
Chris[/QUOTE]
i know...
it was on hold for a long time. now were going full out on it.
we had a rocket project for Space X and the cobb car to get through the shop before we started the 360.
t
| 5lipstream | 02-23-2007 04:36 PM |
Tom and JRL are right on point. Too many comapnies are using a vinylester or polyester resin on their "CF" parts becuase they can be cured at room temperature. A true Epoxy Resin will make the part much stronger. Actually, (correct me if Im wrong) A carbon fiber part made with vinyl or poly will not be any stronger than a fiberglass part.
Tom and JRL - Couldn't you get good results using 2 layers of carbon fabric with a core material between? With the current cost of CF material, that could save money and not sacrifice (much) strength.
I used to make CF motorcycle fairings back a few years ago. I used an infuser to carefully add resin to my cloth to keep the ratio close. But I used poly resin because I didn't have access to an oven that large. I did vac bag my parts though.
There is a great forum for composites if anyone wants to learn more. Visit [URL]http://www.fibreglast.com/VBulletin/[/URL] ((No affililation, just FYI)
Tom - Please post any pics you have building the Cobb car and the 360.
-Joe
Tom and JRL - Couldn't you get good results using 2 layers of carbon fabric with a core material between? With the current cost of CF material, that could save money and not sacrifice (much) strength.
I used to make CF motorcycle fairings back a few years ago. I used an infuser to carefully add resin to my cloth to keep the ratio close. But I used poly resin because I didn't have access to an oven that large. I did vac bag my parts though.
There is a great forum for composites if anyone wants to learn more. Visit [URL]http://www.fibreglast.com/VBulletin/[/URL] ((No affililation, just FYI)
Tom - Please post any pics you have building the Cobb car and the 360.
-Joe
| 105wrx | 02-23-2007 05:41 PM |
so that was the car you had totally stripped in the other shop..saying you couldnt say anything about it...cool!
| JRL | 02-23-2007 06:39 PM |
[QUOTE=5lipstream;17157796]Tom and JRL are right on point. Too many comapnies are using a vinylester or polyester resin on their "CF" parts becuase they can be cured at room temperature. A true Epoxy Resin will make the part much stronger. Actually, (correct me if Im wrong) A carbon fiber part made with vinyl or poly will not be any stronger than a fiberglass part.
Tom and JRL - Couldn't you get good results using 2 layers of carbon fabric with a core material between? With the current cost of CF material, that could save money and not sacrifice (much) strength.
[/QUOTE]Gonna keep this short as I have to go fishing.
Vinyl Ester is by no means a weak, or, garbage resin. Its VERY stiff. In addition to that it can handle 350 degree temps without an oven cure. Epoxy has to be oven cured to reach that high of a TG ratio.
A part infused with Vinyl will be very stiff (even more so than epoxy). Epoxy is stronger/harder more resistant to tearing, but not stiffer. Vinyl is very brittle.
Polyester is boat/surf board resin. And in my opinion shouldnt be used on ANY car parts.
If your going to use a core. Like honey comb, divinycell (sp?), or polyethylene (sp?). 3 layers on each side will produce one of the hardest lightest panels/parts you will ever see. High performance cores like aluminum honey comb, or, polyethylene are unreal stiff. Very expensive also. Every time I pick up our samples we were given at work it amazes me. Its like "wow, I forgot how cool this stuff was".
Im not so sure I would trust just one layer of CF on a core (2 layers, 1 one each side). Most of the consumer stuff is like 5.7oz or 8oz per square yard. And a single layer comes in at .01 inches when fully cured after bagging it. You will also lose the benefit of opposing weave patterns (thats where a lot of your strength comes from). If you meant 2 on each side then yea. It wouldnt hurt. Its the minimum I would do though.
Fiberglast.com has a lot of porn on it lately. So I avoid it.
Tom and JRL - Couldn't you get good results using 2 layers of carbon fabric with a core material between? With the current cost of CF material, that could save money and not sacrifice (much) strength.
[/QUOTE]Gonna keep this short as I have to go fishing.
Vinyl Ester is by no means a weak, or, garbage resin. Its VERY stiff. In addition to that it can handle 350 degree temps without an oven cure. Epoxy has to be oven cured to reach that high of a TG ratio.
A part infused with Vinyl will be very stiff (even more so than epoxy). Epoxy is stronger/harder more resistant to tearing, but not stiffer. Vinyl is very brittle.
Polyester is boat/surf board resin. And in my opinion shouldnt be used on ANY car parts.
If your going to use a core. Like honey comb, divinycell (sp?), or polyethylene (sp?). 3 layers on each side will produce one of the hardest lightest panels/parts you will ever see. High performance cores like aluminum honey comb, or, polyethylene are unreal stiff. Very expensive also. Every time I pick up our samples we were given at work it amazes me. Its like "wow, I forgot how cool this stuff was".
Im not so sure I would trust just one layer of CF on a core (2 layers, 1 one each side). Most of the consumer stuff is like 5.7oz or 8oz per square yard. And a single layer comes in at .01 inches when fully cured after bagging it. You will also lose the benefit of opposing weave patterns (thats where a lot of your strength comes from). If you meant 2 on each side then yea. It wouldnt hurt. Its the minimum I would do though.
Fiberglast.com has a lot of porn on it lately. So I avoid it.
| stentorian | 02-23-2007 09:04 PM |
[url]http://www.racingcomposites.net/[/url]
-Joe
-Joe
| wrrrx | 02-24-2007 10:53 AM |
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, guys- very good info.
I'll have to choose my cf trunk/spoiler carefully... (Mainly research who does "cheap" cf better than others).
Russ R
PS- I couldn't find any porn on fiberglast.com, JRL. Very sad. :lol:
I'll have to choose my cf trunk/spoiler carefully... (Mainly research who does "cheap" cf better than others).
Russ R
PS- I couldn't find any porn on fiberglast.com, JRL. Very sad. :lol:
| JRL | 02-24-2007 08:58 PM |
[QUOTE=wrrrx;17163596]
PS- I couldn't find any porn on fiberglast.com, JRL. Very sad. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Third post down.....
[url]http://www.fibreglast.com/VBulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=6[/url]
It really is crazy that they dont moderate their board. Im guessing that its a bot doing it.
PS- I couldn't find any porn on fiberglast.com, JRL. Very sad. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Third post down.....
[url]http://www.fibreglast.com/VBulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=6[/url]
It really is crazy that they dont moderate their board. Im guessing that its a bot doing it.
| teh Phil | 02-24-2007 11:30 PM |
Any pics of that 360, Tom? ;)
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