| WRXINTX | 09-30-2005 09:55 AM |
Spoiler/wing aerodynamics questions
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Hello all!!!
I am wondering if anyone can inform me of the high speed rear end lift of these WRX's.....
I am thinking about doing a wing-delete and putting a Mines edge spoiler on, but I am going to be going 140mph plus, very often....
here are the questions if someone can inform me of these specs, facts, opinions, observations.....
1. What is the instability of a WRX with no wing at all above 120mph??
2. How much downforce does the stock WRX spoiler add above 120mph?
3. how much more downforce is added with carbon fiber stock wing risers?
4. How much downforce does the STI wing add over no wing at all?
VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION ON A VERY FAST CAR!!!!!!!!!!!
THANKS!!!!!
RYNO
I am wondering if anyone can inform me of the high speed rear end lift of these WRX's.....
I am thinking about doing a wing-delete and putting a Mines edge spoiler on, but I am going to be going 140mph plus, very often....
here are the questions if someone can inform me of these specs, facts, opinions, observations.....
1. What is the instability of a WRX with no wing at all above 120mph??
2. How much downforce does the stock WRX spoiler add above 120mph?
3. how much more downforce is added with carbon fiber stock wing risers?
4. How much downforce does the STI wing add over no wing at all?
VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION ON A VERY FAST CAR!!!!!!!!!!!
THANKS!!!!!
RYNO
| MikalsWRX | 09-30-2005 10:23 AM |
Ummm are you a racer?
Ummm are you going to be driving over 120?
Seriously though, most of that stuff really wont matter. Do what ever you like as long as you like it, thats all that matters. If you want to go wingless or add risers, go for it. I dont think your going to be driving on the highway and say, damn those risers are screwing with my downforce :D
Ummm are you going to be driving over 120?
Seriously though, most of that stuff really wont matter. Do what ever you like as long as you like it, thats all that matters. If you want to go wingless or add risers, go for it. I dont think your going to be driving on the highway and say, damn those risers are screwing with my downforce :D
| cdigerlando | 09-30-2005 11:15 AM |
Interesting question. Too bad I don't have any info on this issue. I'm sure someone will.
| tsquared80 | 09-30-2005 11:22 AM |
Makes me wish I had my airfoil lift calculation software. I used it a bunch of times in my undergrad aero class. If I could map out the profile, I could probably get a rough hand calculation using my class notes and textbook, at least accurate to an order of magnatude. I don't have a WRX wing though, just an STi. If I could get an outline of the cross-section, I may be able to get an answer in a few days.
| erik04wrx | 09-30-2005 11:27 AM |
find me some track time and i'll be there for wingless ;)
120.......my pleasure
120.......my pleasure
| WRXINTX | 09-30-2005 12:45 PM |
140 in the quarter mile........
yep.... it's fast......
'nuff said.... that is why it does matter...... I want to keep the car stable at high speeds....
that software would be awesome!!!!
RYNO
yep.... it's fast......
'nuff said.... that is why it does matter...... I want to keep the car stable at high speeds....
that software would be awesome!!!!
RYNO
| sc00by4life | 09-30-2005 12:57 PM |
if you really had a car that fast, shouldnt you know the answer to this question?
| erik04wrx | 09-30-2005 01:03 PM |
with downforce, drag increases so maybe 137 with a wing, do you really want that sacrafice???
| eric94501 | 09-30-2005 01:06 PM |
For track or high speed use setup the aerodynamics like the new 06 STi; STi rear roof and trunk spoiler, underbody diffuser on sides and rear.
| Davenow | 09-30-2005 01:07 PM |
STI wing or prodrive wing. Prodrive is probably more aero effective
STI V-Limited front lip.
There are a couple pf us that have noticed MUCH better high speed stability of the 04+ body style once the V-Limited lip is installed. This is speaking of the real JDM one, not a replica (a replica could have SLIGHT differences that may kill the aero profile of it)
STI V-Limited front lip.
There are a couple pf us that have noticed MUCH better high speed stability of the 04+ body style once the V-Limited lip is installed. This is speaking of the real JDM one, not a replica (a replica could have SLIGHT differences that may kill the aero profile of it)
| stidailydriver | 09-30-2005 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE=sc00by4life]if you really had a car that fast, shouldnt you know the answer to this question?[/QUOTE]
you read my mind. but thank god hes doing this on the track, and not on the "go speed racer go speed racer" streets.
you read my mind. but thank god hes doing this on the track, and not on the "go speed racer go speed racer" streets.
| b_powerfade | 09-30-2005 01:29 PM |
TROLL :alien:
| WRXINTX | 10-01-2005 01:28 AM |
[QUOTE=b_powerfade]TROLL :alien:[/QUOTE]
thank you b.....
someone is a troll and a tool in the same.... not naming names.... :eek:
Just because you are on this board doesn't give you reason enough to pee in someone's cheerios does it??? Maybe you are E-important!!!!!
SUPER!!!!!!! (if there was a gay smiley you would have earned it!!!)
It already has the STI wing, so I guess I can start experimenting with stability myself when I get to run the car..... just thought there would be some tech heads on here who have a top speed fetish....
BTW- I have done 193mph in a SUPRA, but not in the quarter... and that wasn't the top speed either....
Thank you very much to all who have given useful advice and opinions....
I was already on the thought pattern of underbody aero-trays, rear diffuser, etc....
I have the 03 WRX, so I guess I am screwed on the V-limited lip.... but thanks so much for the tip......
the lower the car is in the front, the less air can get under it and lift it up.....
TIME TO STUDY SOME SUPRAS and 996 TURBO Porsches... underbody aero mods are gonna be on the way......
Triming the fat.....is hard on a car this smooth with a driver so overweight... ;)
Again, I want to thank those who actually put some thought into this and stated an idea or an observation!!!!
Keep 'em coming!!!! and if anyone has any high speed experience with a wing delete WRX, or with one that a an STI wing or other aftermarket wing was added to, please chime in....
So far, we have observed that the 04+STI's overall aerodynamics were greatly improved by a lip and those who are adding rear diffusers from the 06's.....
DIG AND PLANT..... keep the air out from under the car, and what air does get under there needs to be controled and channeled where it goes....
Anyone have any modeling software like was mentioned earlier???
Thanks again!!!
RYNO
thank you b.....
someone is a troll and a tool in the same.... not naming names.... :eek:
Just because you are on this board doesn't give you reason enough to pee in someone's cheerios does it??? Maybe you are E-important!!!!!
SUPER!!!!!!! (if there was a gay smiley you would have earned it!!!)
It already has the STI wing, so I guess I can start experimenting with stability myself when I get to run the car..... just thought there would be some tech heads on here who have a top speed fetish....
BTW- I have done 193mph in a SUPRA, but not in the quarter... and that wasn't the top speed either....
Thank you very much to all who have given useful advice and opinions....
I was already on the thought pattern of underbody aero-trays, rear diffuser, etc....
I have the 03 WRX, so I guess I am screwed on the V-limited lip.... but thanks so much for the tip......
the lower the car is in the front, the less air can get under it and lift it up.....
TIME TO STUDY SOME SUPRAS and 996 TURBO Porsches... underbody aero mods are gonna be on the way......
Triming the fat.....is hard on a car this smooth with a driver so overweight... ;)
Again, I want to thank those who actually put some thought into this and stated an idea or an observation!!!!
Keep 'em coming!!!! and if anyone has any high speed experience with a wing delete WRX, or with one that a an STI wing or other aftermarket wing was added to, please chime in....
So far, we have observed that the 04+STI's overall aerodynamics were greatly improved by a lip and those who are adding rear diffusers from the 06's.....
DIG AND PLANT..... keep the air out from under the car, and what air does get under there needs to be controled and channeled where it goes....
Anyone have any modeling software like was mentioned earlier???
Thanks again!!!
RYNO
| rites | 10-01-2005 02:09 AM |
Wait, so why did you buy a STi to drag?
| Loci | 10-01-2005 06:28 AM |
i dont think that u will need a spoiler for drag racing, look to the professional only the people who go into the 250 use them so u doing really need to
| jmanrex | 10-01-2005 09:34 AM |
with thoses speeds the higher the wing the better--if you are going 100+ without a wing -- your ass end will be all over the place-- just look at any professional race event -- how many cars have NO wings???
NONE
it would be a very bad idea to go wingless or even put a mines on
NONE
it would be a very bad idea to go wingless or even put a mines on
| FastSS | 10-02-2005 03:48 AM |
the only thing I can think of is that the air under these cars looks like it might be a problem, that in mind I think keeping the nose down would be the most important
| beeferino | 10-02-2005 10:49 AM |
I recall sometime back some of the guys who went to the Sepang F1 circuit and getting a comparison between the S202/S203 spoiler and without. Seems spoilers (S202/S203 at least) provide a tangible amount of downforce. Some of the high speed corners he had the rear slip away on the spoilerless run.
Sorry, can't find the original post anymore.
Sorry, can't find the original post anymore.
| erik04wrx | 10-02-2005 12:00 PM |
^^ very true but he is drag racing, and all the people who are going 250+ are purpose built cars and MOST of them are RWD I have yet to see an AWD funnycar, I say unless you plan on cornering in that 1/4 mile de-wing, on a side note why did front wings die out in the 80's?
| OneArmedScissor | 10-02-2005 12:09 PM |
I really doubt you're going to hit 140's in the 1/4 if you're worried about aerodynamics first. Worry about the engine setup first, THEN worry about body modifications.
A rear diffuser from HKS would accomplish what you are looking to do. (see the JUN car's rear end)
Where in TX do you live by chance? I'd be glad to show you a mine's decklid.
A rear diffuser from HKS would accomplish what you are looking to do. (see the JUN car's rear end)
Where in TX do you live by chance? I'd be glad to show you a mine's decklid.
| 555ideways | 10-02-2005 12:09 PM |
Drag racing .... i would ditch the wing. I the idea of the wing is to reduce oversteer in high speed corners mostly. Yah won't be doin much steering though bud. Why don't you just try it without the wing a few pulls and then bolt it back on for a few pulls and see how she goes. My guess is that you barely notice the difference unless you hit a slalom at the end of the dragstrip.
140 isn't that fast in a straight line to be perfectly honest. It's gettin there though....
140 isn't that fast in a straight line to be perfectly honest. It's gettin there though....
| KAX | 10-02-2005 07:37 PM |
[QUOTE=Milin]I really doubt you're going to hit 140's in the 1/4 if you're worried about aerodynamics first. Worry about the engine setup first, THEN worry about body modifications.
A rear diffuser from HKS would accomplish what you are looking to do. (see the JUN car's rear end)
Where in TX do you live by chance? I'd be glad to show you a mine's decklid.[/QUOTE]
I think his car already has the engine mods :confused: but thats my guess. Just dewing it. like 555 said, your not gunna be turning much, and with an AWD car i dont think youll need much rear downforce. the wing will only restrict you, if you think you need downforce, go with something designed for drag racing.
A rear diffuser from HKS would accomplish what you are looking to do. (see the JUN car's rear end)
Where in TX do you live by chance? I'd be glad to show you a mine's decklid.[/QUOTE]
I think his car already has the engine mods :confused: but thats my guess. Just dewing it. like 555 said, your not gunna be turning much, and with an AWD car i dont think youll need much rear downforce. the wing will only restrict you, if you think you need downforce, go with something designed for drag racing.
| OneArmedScissor | 10-02-2005 07:57 PM |
you won't notice anything at 140 especially if you're drag racing.
ever notice how most of the japanese drag cars have a spoiler that basically extends the trunk into a big line (flush mounted wide thing that hangs off the trunk?
if you're building a drag car and want a wing obviously this is your first one you've ever built.
post pics of the engine though, we'd all like to see what will make 140+ mph runs in the 1/4 on an 03 WRX.
ever notice how most of the japanese drag cars have a spoiler that basically extends the trunk into a big line (flush mounted wide thing that hangs off the trunk?
if you're building a drag car and want a wing obviously this is your first one you've ever built.
post pics of the engine though, we'd all like to see what will make 140+ mph runs in the 1/4 on an 03 WRX.
| WRXINTX | 10-03-2005 11:13 AM |
Got a buddy who was part of powerhouse racing before every little chode tuner got ahold of his products and stole his ideas as their own and sold them for 1/2 price.....
He said his supra would get very squirelly above 110mph without the stock rear wing..... He never ran it again without a wing.....
needless to say, these cars are quite different, but that notwithstanding, I think I will look at some undercar trays and such and keep the wing on it....
THanks!!
RYNO
He said his supra would get very squirelly above 110mph without the stock rear wing..... He never ran it again without a wing.....
needless to say, these cars are quite different, but that notwithstanding, I think I will look at some undercar trays and such and keep the wing on it....
THanks!!
RYNO
| OneArmedScissor | 10-03-2005 11:46 AM |
[QUOTE=WRXINTX]Got a buddy who was part of powerhouse racing before every little chode tuner got ahold of his products and stole his ideas as their own and sold them for 1/2 price.....
He said his supra would get very squirelly above 110mph without the stock rear wing..... He never ran it again without a wing.....
needless to say, these cars are quite different, but that notwithstanding, I think I will look at some undercar trays and such and keep the wing on it....
THanks!!
RYNO[/QUOTE]
Jake?
a WRX isn't nearly the same thing as a supra. Trust me when I tell you that you will not need it.
if you have an 03, try looking at the prodrive aero pack, it comes with a front lip and spoiler and is supposed to make the car much more stable (the front lip extends back into a kind of undertray for the front end and the wing creates downforce)
if you are drag racing at the strip you won't need a wing, it just slows you down.
if you are trying to street race, just get some different tires. The WRX is NOT going to be a good car to go fast in simply because it is, aerodynamically, a brick.
you're much better off going with a car designed to do roll races.
He said his supra would get very squirelly above 110mph without the stock rear wing..... He never ran it again without a wing.....
needless to say, these cars are quite different, but that notwithstanding, I think I will look at some undercar trays and such and keep the wing on it....
THanks!!
RYNO[/QUOTE]
Jake?
a WRX isn't nearly the same thing as a supra. Trust me when I tell you that you will not need it.
if you have an 03, try looking at the prodrive aero pack, it comes with a front lip and spoiler and is supposed to make the car much more stable (the front lip extends back into a kind of undertray for the front end and the wing creates downforce)
if you are drag racing at the strip you won't need a wing, it just slows you down.
if you are trying to street race, just get some different tires. The WRX is NOT going to be a good car to go fast in simply because it is, aerodynamically, a brick.
you're much better off going with a car designed to do roll races.
| KAX | 10-03-2005 11:46 AM |
glad we could help :rolleyes:
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