| PeterJ | 03-16-2004 10:30 PM |
Who's rallied on AGX's
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What settings and springs did you use, and how did you like them? Thanks:)
| tora | 03-16-2004 11:26 PM |
Don't know how many comments you will get but I'll offer my minor knowledge just in case no one else has. I installed them on a customers car. He blew three of his stock shocks (running on stock springs with a WRX), so he wanted something a little tougher. He got a really good deal on some AGX's so we put them on. He said they were much better than stock, car was more settled and controllable. That's about all I heard of it. For the money though I would save up for a set of DMS50's. It's a lot mroe coin but if you are doing serious rallying it may be a good idea.
| Uncle Scotty | 03-17-2004 12:08 AM |
Pete...you may wish to pose your question in the motorsports forum for best response...
| Faraz | 03-17-2004 07:39 AM |
its a very bad idea to try and rally on AGXs they do have enough dampening for Auto-x, so they are definately not up to the challenge of rally on them. They'll break if you really get going.
If you want to rally go back to your stock struts and blow those, or just get coilovers don't try and do it halfway, you'll end up spending more, and not finishing the rally
If you want to rally go back to your stock struts and blow those, or just get coilovers don't try and do it halfway, you'll end up spending more, and not finishing the rally
| fasteddie | 03-17-2004 03:03 PM |
I have rallied on AGX's on a Legacy (once) and on a Sentra SE-R (many times). They are ok when low cost is the big factor. The adjustability will make them better than your stock struts. PST sells a set of 4 for $389 shipped. After you bend the shafts a couple of times, then it is time to consider paying $3000 for some DMS 50mm struts or even more for Proflex.
Ted Mendham
ProRally #66
Ted Mendham
ProRally #66
| tora | 03-17-2004 03:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Faraz [/i]
[B]its a very bad idea to try and rally on AGXs they do have enough dampening for Auto-x, so they are definately not up to the challenge of rally on them. They'll break if you really get going.
If you want to rally go back to your stock struts and blow those, or just get coilovers don't try and do it halfway, you'll end up spending more, and not finishing the rally [/B][/QUOTE]
What are you basing this on? Why are AGX's not good enough for auto-x and why would stock be better? Why would AGX's be blown in a rally and stocks not, or more likely to blow than stock? Just curious where you are getting your info from.
[B]its a very bad idea to try and rally on AGXs they do have enough dampening for Auto-x, so they are definately not up to the challenge of rally on them. They'll break if you really get going.
If you want to rally go back to your stock struts and blow those, or just get coilovers don't try and do it halfway, you'll end up spending more, and not finishing the rally [/B][/QUOTE]
What are you basing this on? Why are AGX's not good enough for auto-x and why would stock be better? Why would AGX's be blown in a rally and stocks not, or more likely to blow than stock? Just curious where you are getting your info from.
| Faraz | 03-17-2004 03:51 PM |
from selling parts to people who rally for the last 3 years. Also auto-xing for some years now too. If you look what I said. I said your stocks WOULD blow, but they would be cheaper to replace. You can always find people basicly giving away stocks.
| Uncle Scotty | 03-17-2004 04:00 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fasteddie [/i]
[B] PST sells a set of 4 for $389 shipped. [/B][/QUOTE]
P-S-T HAS RAISED THEIR PRICE ON SUBARU AGX'S....AND [SIZE=3]ONLY[/SIZE] ON THE SUBARU AGX'S.
BOYCOT THE BASTARDS.
[B] PST sells a set of 4 for $389 shipped. [/B][/QUOTE]
P-S-T HAS RAISED THEIR PRICE ON SUBARU AGX'S....AND [SIZE=3]ONLY[/SIZE] ON THE SUBARU AGX'S.
BOYCOT THE BASTARDS.
| tora | 03-17-2004 04:16 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Faraz [/i]
[B]from selling parts to people who rally for the last 3 years. Also auto-xing for some years now too. If you look what I said. I said your stocks WOULD blow, but they would be cheaper to replace. You can always find people basicly giving away stocks. [/B][/QUOTE]
Perhaps I am just reading it wrong but it seems to me you said that "it is a very bad idea to rally on AGX's, yet you offered no evidence of why. I'm not saying your wrong, I only have one customer who did it and whose opinion I would not rely upon. If I had a customer I would not reccomend it but I would give my reasons why or why not. You didn't, and that is all I am asking for. You still haven't said why. Why are they bad for auto-x? Please elaborate your point. And, what does "they'll break if you really get going" mean. That makes no sense whatsoever. My client got through an entire performance rally running at full pace and didn't break them, whereas in his previous rally he broke two stock shocks in two consecutive stages. This is only one account but it seems more reliable than what you have offered up so far.
I also auto-x and have sold lots of AGX's as combos with spring and to guys who just what better shocks. I think they are good for auto-x (or better than stock) because they offer adjustability, always a bonus, they offer stiffer settings than stock and they are RED!!
[B]from selling parts to people who rally for the last 3 years. Also auto-xing for some years now too. If you look what I said. I said your stocks WOULD blow, but they would be cheaper to replace. You can always find people basicly giving away stocks. [/B][/QUOTE]
Perhaps I am just reading it wrong but it seems to me you said that "it is a very bad idea to rally on AGX's, yet you offered no evidence of why. I'm not saying your wrong, I only have one customer who did it and whose opinion I would not rely upon. If I had a customer I would not reccomend it but I would give my reasons why or why not. You didn't, and that is all I am asking for. You still haven't said why. Why are they bad for auto-x? Please elaborate your point. And, what does "they'll break if you really get going" mean. That makes no sense whatsoever. My client got through an entire performance rally running at full pace and didn't break them, whereas in his previous rally he broke two stock shocks in two consecutive stages. This is only one account but it seems more reliable than what you have offered up so far.
I also auto-x and have sold lots of AGX's as combos with spring and to guys who just what better shocks. I think they are good for auto-x (or better than stock) because they offer adjustability, always a bonus, they offer stiffer settings than stock and they are RED!!
| nunyo | 03-17-2004 04:41 PM |
Tora, reread[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Faraz[/i]
[B] its a very bad idea to try and rally on AGXs they [size=3][i]do have enough dampening for Auto-x[/i][/size], so they are definately not up to the challenge of rally on them. They'll break if you really get going.
If you want to rally go back to your stock struts and blow those, or just get coilovers don't try and do it halfway, you'll end up spending more, and not finishing the rally [/B][/QUOTE]
He never said they were no good for autocross. That post was no literary masterpiece, but he didn't say what you're thinking he said.
[B] its a very bad idea to try and rally on AGXs they [size=3][i]do have enough dampening for Auto-x[/i][/size], so they are definately not up to the challenge of rally on them. They'll break if you really get going.
If you want to rally go back to your stock struts and blow those, or just get coilovers don't try and do it halfway, you'll end up spending more, and not finishing the rally [/B][/QUOTE]
He never said they were no good for autocross. That post was no literary masterpiece, but he didn't say what you're thinking he said.
| Faraz | 03-17-2004 04:50 PM |
If the dampening is not enough for auto-x. Which means there is too much give for optimum turning.
they difinately are not built for the stress of a rally. I mean they will really break.
A good whump with 2 or 3 ! that landing will break AGXs.
All I am really saying. is that the AGX are a waste of money. If you want to rally you might as well go with the stock struts. I'm sure that subaru put alot more money in designing their struts, than AGX who designed the strut for the WRX.
All those people you sold the agx's to. How soon did they come back and get a real strut setup
oh, I do not work in the performance biz anymore, so I do not have anything to gain from this.
they difinately are not built for the stress of a rally. I mean they will really break.
A good whump with 2 or 3 ! that landing will break AGXs.
All I am really saying. is that the AGX are a waste of money. If you want to rally you might as well go with the stock struts. I'm sure that subaru put alot more money in designing their struts, than AGX who designed the strut for the WRX.
All those people you sold the agx's to. How soon did they come back and get a real strut setup
oh, I do not work in the performance biz anymore, so I do not have anything to gain from this.
| tora | 03-17-2004 04:51 PM |
Why don't they have enough dampening for auto-x? On what car, with what springs or tires or suspension set-up. His whole post makes no sense, let alone the literary validity of it.
| Faraz | 03-17-2004 04:59 PM |
find me how many people are driver of the year on AGXs? when were the last top ten in Pax. in ANY major region of scca solo II on AGX. I'm talking about on the RS. What car are you talking about?
If the AGXs are so great why don't people win on them? or is that just in the 4 major regions near me?
setups that I have run
Agx/ 5zegin on RS
agx/ tein soft, hard, medium, and the newer models of springs
agx/stock springs
agx sport setup on VW aand GTi, bmw 325i, and nissan sunny
...need more? how about the videos?
If the AGXs are so great why don't people win on them? or is that just in the 4 major regions near me?
setups that I have run
Agx/ 5zegin on RS
agx/ tein soft, hard, medium, and the newer models of springs
agx/stock springs
agx sport setup on VW aand GTi, bmw 325i, and nissan sunny
...need more? how about the videos?
| nunyo | 03-17-2004 05:02 PM |
bah! so much for taking someone at their word. Tora good job getting the meaning out of that. As for AGX's being junk, I couldn't say, except that someone I trust to make good choices about his car ran them for quite a while. I personally have Konis, and wouldn't have anything less.
| tora | 03-17-2004 05:39 PM |
I never said there wasn't anything better than AGX but your response that "they are underdamped for auto-x" is meaningless. They are not underdamped, but they are not as good as other set-ups out there, WHO CARES!! How does that relate to them in rally and whether they would be better than stock or not?
| Subie Gal | 03-17-2004 05:41 PM |
i wouldnt call them junk..
but i wouldnt rally on them... no... way...
i ran the KYB/AGX at one time.
but not for long.
1 rallyCROSS (<---not even a real rally) and one blown strut
KYB's = not for real rallying... nope.
there are rally cars out there with KYB's..
usually their times are not up to par
or they DNF due to suspension issues.
if you're serious about rally-rallying..
it's best to get a serious rally suspension.
suspension and protection are the key factors in a good rally car
hope this helps.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
2003 SCCA NorPac PGT Rally Champion
2003 NWR SCCA Driver Class 2 Rally Champion
but i wouldnt rally on them... no... way...
i ran the KYB/AGX at one time.
but not for long.
1 rallyCROSS (<---not even a real rally) and one blown strut
KYB's = not for real rallying... nope.
there are rally cars out there with KYB's..
usually their times are not up to par
or they DNF due to suspension issues.
if you're serious about rally-rallying..
it's best to get a serious rally suspension.
suspension and protection are the key factors in a good rally car
hope this helps.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
2003 SCCA NorPac PGT Rally Champion
2003 NWR SCCA Driver Class 2 Rally Champion
| Paisan | 03-17-2004 05:46 PM |
If you are gonna go beyond AGXs, I want to know what kind of safety and roll cage stuff you are also doing. IMHO AGXs are perfect for non-competition use (Rally-x, Auto-x, etc) if your skills are beyond a casual auto-xer/rally-xer/etc you'll be spending big money on a full blown car in which case the AGXs won't be any good.
-mike
-mike
| tora | 03-17-2004 06:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Subie Gal [/i]
[B]i wouldnt call them junk..
but i wouldnt rally on them... no... way...
i ran the KYB/AGX at one time.
but not for long.
1 rallyCROSS (<---not even a real rally) and one blown strut
KYB's = not for real rallying... nope.
there are rally cars out there with KYB's..
usually their times are not up to par
or they DNF due to suspension issues.
if you're serious about rally-rallying..
it's best to get a serious rally suspension.
suspension and protection are the key factors in a good rally car
hope this helps.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
2003 SCCA NorPac PGT Rally Champion
2003 NWR SCCA Driver Class 2 Rally Champion [/B][/QUOTE]
Jamie, thank you fora personal story on the use of AGX's. Sounds legit to me that they are not the best idea even if they are better than stock.
[B]i wouldnt call them junk..
but i wouldnt rally on them... no... way...
i ran the KYB/AGX at one time.
but not for long.
1 rallyCROSS (<---not even a real rally) and one blown strut
KYB's = not for real rallying... nope.
there are rally cars out there with KYB's..
usually their times are not up to par
or they DNF due to suspension issues.
if you're serious about rally-rallying..
it's best to get a serious rally suspension.
suspension and protection are the key factors in a good rally car
hope this helps.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
2003 SCCA NorPac PGT Rally Champion
2003 NWR SCCA Driver Class 2 Rally Champion [/B][/QUOTE]
Jamie, thank you fora personal story on the use of AGX's. Sounds legit to me that they are not the best idea even if they are better than stock.
| PeterJ | 03-17-2004 08:08 PM |
?
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[QUOTE]He said they were much better than stock, car was more settled and controllable.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the responses; I know there are people out there who rallied on stock struts and agx's with extra bump-stops and had to replace them.
I was hoping to get a few of those people to respond on how they performed -before they leaked, faded, bent, etc. My question was about what springs and settings they used, and in "liking them" I meant how was the damping.
Since we're sidetracked; if you want "the whole story", here goes... People theorize and discuss what kind of damping makes a good rally strut at nausea... But that means nothing to me if I dont have anything to compare it to. A while back, someone posted the percent increase in damping of the GD agx's over stock at each setting. It wasnt specific in giving the actual rates, but at least its a general idea.
So, if someone used agx's in a rally and posted their opinion on the performance, [we all already know about the reliability :rolleyes:] then maybe it would give me and everyone else a better idea on what damping a semi-decent rally strut could have in relation to stock.
Anyway, I'll take the advice and try in the motorsports forum.
Thanks for the responses; I know there are people out there who rallied on stock struts and agx's with extra bump-stops and had to replace them.
I was hoping to get a few of those people to respond on how they performed -before they leaked, faded, bent, etc. My question was about what springs and settings they used, and in "liking them" I meant how was the damping.
Since we're sidetracked; if you want "the whole story", here goes... People theorize and discuss what kind of damping makes a good rally strut at nausea... But that means nothing to me if I dont have anything to compare it to. A while back, someone posted the percent increase in damping of the GD agx's over stock at each setting. It wasnt specific in giving the actual rates, but at least its a general idea.
So, if someone used agx's in a rally and posted their opinion on the performance, [we all already know about the reliability :rolleyes:] then maybe it would give me and everyone else a better idea on what damping a semi-decent rally strut could have in relation to stock.
Anyway, I'll take the advice and try in the motorsports forum.
| treekiller | 03-17-2004 11:25 PM |
the KYB AGX struts are designed to be a mild improvement over stock allowing additional lowering and spring rate with adjusting damping acordingly. they are not in any stretch of the imagnation a rally strut.. but for someone in stock class racing or using a mild spring upgrade it's hard to match their price. and being a performance part their life expendency is short. do not expect to drive 100,000 miles on them.
but they have a lot of value for the money.
treekiller
but they have a lot of value for the money.
treekiller
| PeterJ | 03-18-2004 01:56 AM |
man O' man
�
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[QUOTE]Pete...you may wish to pose your question in the motorsports forum for best response...[/QUOTE]
:lol: I should rename this tread to: "Hey let me ask a question so a bunch of people can ramble on about what Im not asking.":lol:
:lol: I should rename this tread to: "Hey let me ask a question so a bunch of people can ramble on about what Im not asking.":lol:
| rupertberr | 03-18-2004 10:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Faraz [/i]
[B]find me how many people are driver of the year on AGXs? when were the last top ten in Pax. in ANY major region of scca solo II on AGX. I'm talking about on the RS. What car are you talking about?
If the AGXs are so great why don't people win on them? or is that just in the 4 major regions near me?
setups that I have run
Agx/ 5zegin on RS
agx/ tein soft, hard, medium, and the newer models of springs
agx/stock springs
agx sport setup on VW aand GTi, bmw 325i, and nissan sunny
...need more? how about the videos? [/B][/QUOTE]
Many guys in Colorado RallyCross on AGX struts.
Our 2003 Production Champion took 7 straight class wins in his AWD Honda RT then put a super charger on it and took two Open Class wins. Finished 5th in the Valvoline Cup National Championship. May have done better if he hadn't blown his engine, twice!
Our 2003 G2 Champion ran the whole year on AGX's and won 5 times including 4 FTD's I believe in an Isuzu I-Mark. Second place driver shared the car and had one win. The Isuzu is a very light car!
I took 3 wins and won my second straight PGT Championship in 2003. I had one FTD. I finished second in the Valvoline Cup National Championship. I was National Champion the year before but scored more points in 2003. I ran half the season last year on OEM struts and then replaced them with AGX after I blew the right rear. All my 2003 wins came on AGX's and I have won three of five this year including one more FTD. KeithRS finished third last year in PGT and put on AGX's this year and has had a 7th and 2 seconds as he learns the struts.
So yes, AGX can have a good record. Having said that I would say that the struts are better then OEM because of the adjustability but you get what you pay for. The 2003 PGT ClubRally National Champion's Todd and Ray Moberly run in PGT with us and the only way I can beat them is if they make a mistake or have a DNF. They run their WRX on $3,000 Tein HG's. If I could afford something better I would get them but I can't so I am happy with what I have. I don't think AGX's would survive jumps in a ClubRally.
[B]find me how many people are driver of the year on AGXs? when were the last top ten in Pax. in ANY major region of scca solo II on AGX. I'm talking about on the RS. What car are you talking about?
If the AGXs are so great why don't people win on them? or is that just in the 4 major regions near me?
setups that I have run
Agx/ 5zegin on RS
agx/ tein soft, hard, medium, and the newer models of springs
agx/stock springs
agx sport setup on VW aand GTi, bmw 325i, and nissan sunny
...need more? how about the videos? [/B][/QUOTE]
Many guys in Colorado RallyCross on AGX struts.
Our 2003 Production Champion took 7 straight class wins in his AWD Honda RT then put a super charger on it and took two Open Class wins. Finished 5th in the Valvoline Cup National Championship. May have done better if he hadn't blown his engine, twice!
Our 2003 G2 Champion ran the whole year on AGX's and won 5 times including 4 FTD's I believe in an Isuzu I-Mark. Second place driver shared the car and had one win. The Isuzu is a very light car!
I took 3 wins and won my second straight PGT Championship in 2003. I had one FTD. I finished second in the Valvoline Cup National Championship. I was National Champion the year before but scored more points in 2003. I ran half the season last year on OEM struts and then replaced them with AGX after I blew the right rear. All my 2003 wins came on AGX's and I have won three of five this year including one more FTD. KeithRS finished third last year in PGT and put on AGX's this year and has had a 7th and 2 seconds as he learns the struts.
So yes, AGX can have a good record. Having said that I would say that the struts are better then OEM because of the adjustability but you get what you pay for. The 2003 PGT ClubRally National Champion's Todd and Ray Moberly run in PGT with us and the only way I can beat them is if they make a mistake or have a DNF. They run their WRX on $3,000 Tein HG's. If I could afford something better I would get them but I can't so I am happy with what I have. I don't think AGX's would survive jumps in a ClubRally.
| Chromer | 03-18-2004 01:12 PM |
Another potential option: Stock Forester suspension. No, I'm not kidding.
I've never rallied it, but I HAVE had my 'lil blue bus airborne before and it didn't hit the bumpstops on re-entry. No apparent damage at all. You get a LOT of droop and travel with the Forester setup too, I have to jack it up about 8" to get a wheel off the ground when I rotate tires and it can compress another 4 inches easy. This is a pic with 12 bundles of shingles in the back (800-1000 lbs?) that shows how much it can compress, the normal wheel gap is about 3 inches. It never hit the bumpstops with this load...
[img]http://homes.midmaine.com/~nate/slam/slam2.jpg[/img]
I'm not sure what you'd need for top hats, etc, or how much it would lift you. The frame rails on a Forester are about 7.5" off the ground.
I've never rallied it, but I HAVE had my 'lil blue bus airborne before and it didn't hit the bumpstops on re-entry. No apparent damage at all. You get a LOT of droop and travel with the Forester setup too, I have to jack it up about 8" to get a wheel off the ground when I rotate tires and it can compress another 4 inches easy. This is a pic with 12 bundles of shingles in the back (800-1000 lbs?) that shows how much it can compress, the normal wheel gap is about 3 inches. It never hit the bumpstops with this load...
[img]http://homes.midmaine.com/~nate/slam/slam2.jpg[/img]
I'm not sure what you'd need for top hats, etc, or how much it would lift you. The frame rails on a Forester are about 7.5" off the ground.
| fasteddie | 03-18-2004 03:45 PM |
AGX settings on Sentra SE-R:
Front: full stiff
Back: 4or6 of 8
Spring rates:
Front: 300lbs/in
Back: 200lbs/in
For 1991 Legacy settings used at 2004 Sno-Drift, you would have to ask [email][email�protected][/email], my crew cheif. I don't remember. I am pretty sure we ran full stiff in front and softer in the back and I know he had a Ground Control Coilover kit around them. Also, ask Jeff about the Legacy spring rates.
I hope this is a better attempt at answering your question.
Good luck,
Ted Mendham
Front: full stiff
Back: 4or6 of 8
Spring rates:
Front: 300lbs/in
Back: 200lbs/in
For 1991 Legacy settings used at 2004 Sno-Drift, you would have to ask [email][email�protected][/email], my crew cheif. I don't remember. I am pretty sure we ran full stiff in front and softer in the back and I know he had a Ground Control Coilover kit around them. Also, ask Jeff about the Legacy spring rates.
I hope this is a better attempt at answering your question.
Good luck,
Ted Mendham
| Thug | 03-21-2004 07:49 PM |
Myself and 2 other local guys each went through a set in under a year and half. And that was just [b]street driving[/b]. No way would those cheap things hold up to the challenge of a stage rally. And FWIW, Im a former rally competitor.
| Jaxx | 03-22-2004 02:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Subie Gal[/i]
[B] i wouldnt call them junk..
but i wouldnt rally on them... no... way...
i ran the KYB/AGX at one time.
but not for long.
1 rallyCROSS (<---not even a real rally) and one blown strut
KYB's = not for real rallying... nope.
there are rally cars out there with KYB's..
usually their times are not up to par
or they DNF due to suspension issues.
if you're serious about rally-rallying..
it's best to get a serious rally suspension.
suspension and protection are the key factors in a good rally car
hope this helps.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
2003 SCCA NorPac PGT Rally Champion
2003 NWR SCCA Driver Class 2 Rally Champion [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah but iirc you were on silly low springs too (below recomended ride height for the agxs)
i also know that paul ecklund ran a full year of PGT on them +obs springs..
[B] i wouldnt call them junk..
but i wouldnt rally on them... no... way...
i ran the KYB/AGX at one time.
but not for long.
1 rallyCROSS (<---not even a real rally) and one blown strut
KYB's = not for real rallying... nope.
there are rally cars out there with KYB's..
usually their times are not up to par
or they DNF due to suspension issues.
if you're serious about rally-rallying..
it's best to get a serious rally suspension.
suspension and protection are the key factors in a good rally car
hope this helps.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
2003 SCCA NorPac PGT Rally Champion
2003 NWR SCCA Driver Class 2 Rally Champion [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah but iirc you were on silly low springs too (below recomended ride height for the agxs)
i also know that paul ecklund ran a full year of PGT on them +obs springs..
| phoenixR34 | 03-22-2004 03:26 PM |
I ran the Prescott Forest Rally twice and the Treeline ClubRally, two rally crosses and probably 200 miles of "practice" with the same set of AGXs and there were no problems. They were still structurally sound and anyone who's been to Prescott knows it's one of the roughest in the country. On the other hand, these are my conclusions:
1. They lack suspension travel needed for rally, mostly droop travel. Even if reliability is there, in my case the fronts didn't have enough droop travel and the front tires wouldn't stay on the ground, then the car bucks back and forth and it's a huge mess, almost impossible to control. I realized AGXs weren't designed to be set at a static 2" higher than stock, then support an addition 2-3" on top of that for big ruts or jumps. Reliability aside, they aren't designed for rally! Plain and simple
2. You can still go fast with AGX, but you always have that little voice in the back of your head saying "hmm, if I jump this flat out, will they hold up *this* time?" You'll never have that worry with DMS!
3. Jamie is right.. sure there are plenty of guys running AGX or something similar, but on the west coast where it's really rough and competitive, 99% of the time the top guys will be bending frames and strut towers from impact before they will be changing out a shock/strut. If it was that easy (running AGX), everyone would be doing it! Spending $3000 when $389 will do isn't fun.
However, if you know you're not a top 10 car and want something just to get out there, AGX will work depending on where you live. In Arizona or California, not reccomended. If you lived in say Vermont or the east coast where they have smooth sweeping roads, whether or not you have the balls to go fast is more of a determining factor. To each his own and yes, you can run AGX.. people do it.
1. They lack suspension travel needed for rally, mostly droop travel. Even if reliability is there, in my case the fronts didn't have enough droop travel and the front tires wouldn't stay on the ground, then the car bucks back and forth and it's a huge mess, almost impossible to control. I realized AGXs weren't designed to be set at a static 2" higher than stock, then support an addition 2-3" on top of that for big ruts or jumps. Reliability aside, they aren't designed for rally! Plain and simple
2. You can still go fast with AGX, but you always have that little voice in the back of your head saying "hmm, if I jump this flat out, will they hold up *this* time?" You'll never have that worry with DMS!
3. Jamie is right.. sure there are plenty of guys running AGX or something similar, but on the west coast where it's really rough and competitive, 99% of the time the top guys will be bending frames and strut towers from impact before they will be changing out a shock/strut. If it was that easy (running AGX), everyone would be doing it! Spending $3000 when $389 will do isn't fun.
However, if you know you're not a top 10 car and want something just to get out there, AGX will work depending on where you live. In Arizona or California, not reccomended. If you lived in say Vermont or the east coast where they have smooth sweeping roads, whether or not you have the balls to go fast is more of a determining factor. To each his own and yes, you can run AGX.. people do it.
| hoche | 03-23-2004 04:47 AM |
Well, I have a couple of comments and a question.
Comment 1: I won the SS4 division of our local rallycross on stock OBS springs and struts, beating out a lot of cars with better suspensions and more horsepower. Now, there aren't a lot of of yumps in rallycrossing, but the stock Subaru struts sure are tough! Mine have almost 100K miles on them, have withstood two years of regular rallycrossing and several recce's, and they're still in good shape.
Comment 2: A friend and I both have Miatas as track cars. He put on AGX's with Ground Control coilovers, and I put on Konis with the GC coilovers and the same spring rates. On the whole, they were both fine. In a side-by-side comparison, I liked the Konis slightly better because I thought the rebound was smoother. It also seemed like the AGX's didn't have as much throw as the Konis. They also have a slightly smaller shaft.
Question: I've also heard that AGX's are "lightweight" shocks, and that they don't hold up to heavy hits well, and are subject to foaming on long rough terrain. However, I've heard that GAB Rally Struts are pretty good. I've also heard that GAB struts are just revalved AGX's. Is this true? Are there any other differences?
Comment 1: I won the SS4 division of our local rallycross on stock OBS springs and struts, beating out a lot of cars with better suspensions and more horsepower. Now, there aren't a lot of of yumps in rallycrossing, but the stock Subaru struts sure are tough! Mine have almost 100K miles on them, have withstood two years of regular rallycrossing and several recce's, and they're still in good shape.
Comment 2: A friend and I both have Miatas as track cars. He put on AGX's with Ground Control coilovers, and I put on Konis with the GC coilovers and the same spring rates. On the whole, they were both fine. In a side-by-side comparison, I liked the Konis slightly better because I thought the rebound was smoother. It also seemed like the AGX's didn't have as much throw as the Konis. They also have a slightly smaller shaft.
Question: I've also heard that AGX's are "lightweight" shocks, and that they don't hold up to heavy hits well, and are subject to foaming on long rough terrain. However, I've heard that GAB Rally Struts are pretty good. I've also heard that GAB struts are just revalved AGX's. Is this true? Are there any other differences?
| wac | 03-23-2004 07:19 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by y2k4door [/i]
[B]Myself and 2 other local guys each went through a set in under a year and half. And that was just [b]street driving[/b]. No way would those cheap things hold up to the challenge of a stage rally. And FWIW, Im a former rally competitor. [/B][/QUOTE]
Nate,
You forgot to mention that driving on the street [b]in Boston[/b] is equivalent to rallycrossing your car every day.
To answer the original question in this post, the AGX fronts are way too soft compared to the rears. I always wished the fronts had two higher settings even when the rears were nowhere near the maximum setting. The AGX are better than the stock struts, which are also made by KYB but valved to Subaru specs. They were a decent match with the stock OBS springs, and work well enough for light-duty auto-x, rally-x, and track days. They're also OK with stock RS springs.
However, the Konis I have now have the higher damping I was looking for, especially in the front, and are overall a better match for the stock (but sagging) OBS springs.
Hope this helps,
-WaC
Wayne
[B]Myself and 2 other local guys each went through a set in under a year and half. And that was just [b]street driving[/b]. No way would those cheap things hold up to the challenge of a stage rally. And FWIW, Im a former rally competitor. [/B][/QUOTE]
Nate,
You forgot to mention that driving on the street [b]in Boston[/b] is equivalent to rallycrossing your car every day.
To answer the original question in this post, the AGX fronts are way too soft compared to the rears. I always wished the fronts had two higher settings even when the rears were nowhere near the maximum setting. The AGX are better than the stock struts, which are also made by KYB but valved to Subaru specs. They were a decent match with the stock OBS springs, and work well enough for light-duty auto-x, rally-x, and track days. They're also OK with stock RS springs.
However, the Konis I have now have the higher damping I was looking for, especially in the front, and are overall a better match for the stock (but sagging) OBS springs.
Hope this helps,
-WaC
Wayne
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