| RebelINS | 01-15-2004 11:44 AM |
Why no commercialization of autox?
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I am not saying I am completely for or against it, but I am just curious why there isn't much autox commercialization? It seems like everything in the US is all about commercialization, so why not autox? I am not saying I would expect autox to be super mainstream with primetime TV coverage or anything. It just seems like there would be at least vending at many events I go to. It would be a great way for a company to show off there products, by having a booth at an autox, with competitors using the stuff they are selling. I would also like it if I could buy a hot dog and a Gatorade at an inflated price sometimes.
-Wes
-Wes
| thrdeye | 01-15-2004 11:46 AM |
It isn't a good spectator sport.
Pretty boring most times, unless you are running.
Pretty boring most times, unless you are running.
| Dussander | 01-15-2004 12:16 PM |
Last year, Precision Racing Organization attempted to make a commercial AutoX group. It was actually pretty nice but they were not getting a very good turn out so they closed down early. I *thought* they would be back this year, but I haven't heard anything. The initial idea was that you could track the results via the internet as they happened.
| KC | 01-15-2004 12:29 PM |
From an inside source.. P.R.O. is dead for now.
Auto-x is a grassroots motorsport. It's where people get their feet wet. Commercialization would take some big sponsors and some big names.
If there's one that could be televised it's the ProSolos. Drag racing, runoffs, cars against each other at the same time.
Possibilities.. but then it would just drive up the prices to get into it... removing it's very reason... a higher level of grassroots motorsports.
Auto-x is a grassroots motorsport. It's where people get their feet wet. Commercialization would take some big sponsors and some big names.
If there's one that could be televised it's the ProSolos. Drag racing, runoffs, cars against each other at the same time.
Possibilities.. but then it would just drive up the prices to get into it... removing it's very reason... a higher level of grassroots motorsports.
| bcblues | 01-15-2004 12:40 PM |
Because it is grassroots racing at its finest. The events are typically sponsored and held by car clubs or SCCA chapters, who are, in turn composed of members whose first and foremost concern is having a good time and learning a bit about their car and driving. These are difficult things for commercial interests to exploit, therefore, you don't see too much interest UNLESS there is a stake in it for the commercial interest. And example would be the tire and to a lesser extent some auto manufacturers.
As far as being a spectator sport, it can be somewhat boring. It is not wheel-to-wheel racing, so most folks don't get a chance to experience the often narrow margins of defeat and victory. If it were wheel-to-wheel, and there was 0.1 second separating the victor from 10 (or sometimes 20th) place, you can bet that there would be some more interest. Also, while it is intensely riveting to participate, it can be a real snoozer for most uninformed spectators. Often times (thankfully) the most spectacular "off" consists of taking out a couple cones. A spin would be a BIG deal. For those spectators who have cut their teeth on NASCAR and NHRA type of competitions, this is pretty mundane.
I think that there ARE some things that could be done to increase the spectator sport allure:
1) Have good announcers and a sound system.
2) Have some honest to goodness spectator seating! Many venues have absolutely nothing!
3) How about some interesting course design that has some "less typical" Solo2 type challenges. I competed in an event last summer where there was a "barrel race" section just like the rodeo queens ride on horseback. The spectators LOVED this part of the course!
As far as being a spectator sport, it can be somewhat boring. It is not wheel-to-wheel racing, so most folks don't get a chance to experience the often narrow margins of defeat and victory. If it were wheel-to-wheel, and there was 0.1 second separating the victor from 10 (or sometimes 20th) place, you can bet that there would be some more interest. Also, while it is intensely riveting to participate, it can be a real snoozer for most uninformed spectators. Often times (thankfully) the most spectacular "off" consists of taking out a couple cones. A spin would be a BIG deal. For those spectators who have cut their teeth on NASCAR and NHRA type of competitions, this is pretty mundane.
I think that there ARE some things that could be done to increase the spectator sport allure:
1) Have good announcers and a sound system.
2) Have some honest to goodness spectator seating! Many venues have absolutely nothing!
3) How about some interesting course design that has some "less typical" Solo2 type challenges. I competed in an event last summer where there was a "barrel race" section just like the rodeo queens ride on horseback. The spectators LOVED this part of the course!
| Paisan | 01-15-2004 12:51 PM |
A raised platform makes it a lot more fun to spectate. I know when we ran in the lot at Englishtown, I have some nice videos from the grandstands of the auto-x course and it's sweet.
-mike
-mike
| wrx2.0 555 | 01-15-2004 07:15 PM |
Re: Why no commercialization of autox?
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RebelINS [/i]
[B]I would also like it if I could buy a hot dog and a Gatorade at an inflated price sometimes.
-Wes [/B][/QUOTE]
Someone in your organization needs to take a little initiative and locate a local hot dog vendor. They're everywhere here, during the week and we have just about always managed to have one out for the events.
The latest one we have is the best- in food and looks :D
[B]I would also like it if I could buy a hot dog and a Gatorade at an inflated price sometimes.
-Wes [/B][/QUOTE]
Someone in your organization needs to take a little initiative and locate a local hot dog vendor. They're everywhere here, during the week and we have just about always managed to have one out for the events.
The latest one we have is the best- in food and looks :D
| Kostamojen | 01-15-2004 09:24 PM |
Ya, we have the same hot dog vendor at all our events too :p
| RebelINS | 01-15-2004 09:47 PM |
Really? I went to probably 10ish autocrosses last year, all in Michigan, and no one was selling any refreshments at a single one. I think that is the norm around here. I need to travel down south or something.
-Wes
-Wes
| ascott | 01-15-2004 11:34 PM |
There is no such thing as a "spectator" at an SCCA Solo II event. Everybody is a participant. That's why everybody has to sign the waiver.
Spectators require different, and outrageously expensive insurance. Any region that advertises for spectators risks an incredible increase in their costs, or the cancellation of their event insurance.
Commercialization would be the end of the sport for most regions. They simply would be unable to attract enough paying spectators to cover their insurance. That would push the cost onto the drivers, and I don't think anybody wants to pay $120 for a single-day local event.
Spectators require different, and outrageously expensive insurance. Any region that advertises for spectators risks an incredible increase in their costs, or the cancellation of their event insurance.
Commercialization would be the end of the sport for most regions. They simply would be unable to attract enough paying spectators to cover their insurance. That would push the cost onto the drivers, and I don't think anybody wants to pay $120 for a single-day local event.
| jcroy66 | 01-16-2004 09:20 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RebelINS[/i]
[B] Really? I went to probably 10ish autocrosses last year, all in Michigan, and no one was selling any refreshments at a single one. I think that is the norm around here. I need to travel down south or something.[/B][/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. Here in Northeast Ohio, the SCCA - NeOhio region & the Akron Sports Car Club have a food vendor show up to our events. He sells burgers, hot dogs, drinks (pop, milk, water, hot chocolate, coffee, Gatorade), and doughnuts. And then he'll have 2 or 3 other items for sale that vary from event to event. For instance, for a couple events late last season, he offered blackened prime rib sandwiches. He frequently offers gyros, chicken philly sandwiches, tacos, nachos, etc.
As event organizers, all we have to do is give the guy a list of our events. We don't pay him to come, as he makes plenty of money by selling the food. :)
[B] Really? I went to probably 10ish autocrosses last year, all in Michigan, and no one was selling any refreshments at a single one. I think that is the norm around here. I need to travel down south or something.[/B][/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. Here in Northeast Ohio, the SCCA - NeOhio region & the Akron Sports Car Club have a food vendor show up to our events. He sells burgers, hot dogs, drinks (pop, milk, water, hot chocolate, coffee, Gatorade), and doughnuts. And then he'll have 2 or 3 other items for sale that vary from event to event. For instance, for a couple events late last season, he offered blackened prime rib sandwiches. He frequently offers gyros, chicken philly sandwiches, tacos, nachos, etc.
As event organizers, all we have to do is give the guy a list of our events. We don't pay him to come, as he makes plenty of money by selling the food. :)
| Rebellion | 01-16-2004 10:20 AM |
hmmm we need to get a food vendor for our events here.
| LyveWRX | 01-16-2004 01:29 PM |
Just so that theres some info from an audio provider. I would likely charge 300+ dollars to provide sound for 6hrs at an autox, even then the audio quality wouldn't be incredible, just decent. for more money obviously the sound quality can go up. competing w/ n# of "loud" 80+db cars would require at least 1200watts through efficient (102db/watt or better) midrange horns to be even audible.
nick
nick
| ITWRX4ME | 01-16-2004 02:25 PM |
If you ever take a look at SCCA rules/guidelines for AutoX and RallyX they say that organizers should not encourage spectators. This theme starts at the top and works its way down.
I'm sure the major events have spectators only because they're tightly controlled, high dollar events. At that level, they can get local police and EMTs involved.
I can appreciate why they say this. It's nearly impossible to control spectators unless they can be confined to a specific area with a fence. I've had spectators cross the course right in front of me during a RallyX run. And that's not like a parking lot, where you have 180° field of view. These morons jumped out of head-high weeds and crossed the course!
I'm sure the major events have spectators only because they're tightly controlled, high dollar events. At that level, they can get local police and EMTs involved.
I can appreciate why they say this. It's nearly impossible to control spectators unless they can be confined to a specific area with a fence. I've had spectators cross the course right in front of me during a RallyX run. And that's not like a parking lot, where you have 180° field of view. These morons jumped out of head-high weeds and crossed the course!
| TheWRX | 01-16-2004 02:45 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ascott [/i]
[B]There is no such thing as a "spectator" at an SCCA Solo II event.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what exactly you mean. There certainly are spectators. Not many, and typcially they are family members or friends of participants, but they exist.
I believe that auto-x could be televised in a way that would make it interesting to watch. As the original poster suggested, obviously not as a ratings magnet on primetime TV. But if done right, I think it would be more attractive than most of the stuff they show on ESPN and Speed. It's not like they seem to have an oversupply of interesting content. ESPN seems to show poker about half of the day! How is that for an exciting sport. :huh:
[B]There is no such thing as a "spectator" at an SCCA Solo II event.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what exactly you mean. There certainly are spectators. Not many, and typcially they are family members or friends of participants, but they exist.
I believe that auto-x could be televised in a way that would make it interesting to watch. As the original poster suggested, obviously not as a ratings magnet on primetime TV. But if done right, I think it would be more attractive than most of the stuff they show on ESPN and Speed. It's not like they seem to have an oversupply of interesting content. ESPN seems to show poker about half of the day! How is that for an exciting sport. :huh:
| ascott | 01-16-2004 03:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TheWRX [/i]
[B]I'm not sure what exactly you mean. There certainly are spectators. Not many, and typcially they are family members or friends of participants, but they exist.
[/B][/QUOTE]
They are not spectators. They are participants. If you refer to anybody as a spectator in front of the insurance underwriter for an event, they'll pull the insurance.
[B]I'm not sure what exactly you mean. There certainly are spectators. Not many, and typcially they are family members or friends of participants, but they exist.
[/B][/QUOTE]
They are not spectators. They are participants. If you refer to anybody as a spectator in front of the insurance underwriter for an event, they'll pull the insurance.
| PaulC | 01-16-2004 03:50 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ascott[/i]
[B] They are not spectators. They are participants. If you refer to anybody as a spectator in front of the insurance underwriter for an event, they'll pull the insurance. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep. In our region when people are signing the waiver to get in the gate we have their friends and family mark themselves as "crew".
[B] They are not spectators. They are participants. If you refer to anybody as a spectator in front of the insurance underwriter for an event, they'll pull the insurance. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep. In our region when people are signing the waiver to get in the gate we have their friends and family mark themselves as "crew".
| jcroy66 | 01-16-2004 07:33 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TheWRX[/i]
[B] I'm not sure what exactly you mean. There certainly are spectators. Not many, and typcially they are family members or friends of participants, but they exist. [/B][/QUOTE]
Almost all autocross events are insured as "non-spectator events". This means that anyone who shows up to "spectate" must sign the waiver to be allowed on the premises. They are thus a "participant". A "participant" is not necessarily the same thing as a driver. :) Although all drivers are indeed participants, one need not be a driver to be a participant. Clear as mud??? :)
[B] I'm not sure what exactly you mean. There certainly are spectators. Not many, and typcially they are family members or friends of participants, but they exist. [/B][/QUOTE]
Almost all autocross events are insured as "non-spectator events". This means that anyone who shows up to "spectate" must sign the waiver to be allowed on the premises. They are thus a "participant". A "participant" is not necessarily the same thing as a driver. :) Although all drivers are indeed participants, one need not be a driver to be a participant. Clear as mud??? :)
| TheWRX | 01-16-2004 08:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jcroy66 [/i]
[B]Clear as mud??? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think I get it now. ;) I even read the whole waiver form one time while working the gate. To me it basically said "You can't sue us! Ever!", but it takes the lawyers about two pages to explain that concept. I know that everybody must sign the waiver, but I wasn't aware that people who come to watch couldn't be called spectators.
[B]Clear as mud??? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think I get it now. ;) I even read the whole waiver form one time while working the gate. To me it basically said "You can't sue us! Ever!", but it takes the lawyers about two pages to explain that concept. I know that everybody must sign the waiver, but I wasn't aware that people who come to watch couldn't be called spectators.
| mywrx2002 | 01-16-2004 10:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TheWRX [/i]
[B]Yeah, I think I get it now. ;) I even read the whole waiver form one time while working the gate. To me it basically said "You can't sue us! Ever!", but it takes the lawyers about two pages to explain that concept. I know that everybody must sign the waiver, but I wasn't aware that people who come to watch couldn't be called spectators. [/B][/QUOTE]
As Mr. A Scott stated very much earlier, the is NO spectators at a auto-x event. He went on to relate the cause (insurance) so no there arn't any spectators there unless you want to classify the people who don't enter the site in any way, shape, or form and may view it from afar as "spectators"
And correct me if I'm wrong, but "TheWRX" ought to know this better than anyone if I think he is the person who was sitting right next to me from the St. Louis region @ the National Event in Peru, In. July 4th weekend of last year. It said very clearly and in bold capitolisation on the aqua piece of paper we handed out to all competators and was taken directly from the rule book
[B]Yeah, I think I get it now. ;) I even read the whole waiver form one time while working the gate. To me it basically said "You can't sue us! Ever!", but it takes the lawyers about two pages to explain that concept. I know that everybody must sign the waiver, but I wasn't aware that people who come to watch couldn't be called spectators. [/B][/QUOTE]
As Mr. A Scott stated very much earlier, the is NO spectators at a auto-x event. He went on to relate the cause (insurance) so no there arn't any spectators there unless you want to classify the people who don't enter the site in any way, shape, or form and may view it from afar as "spectators"
And correct me if I'm wrong, but "TheWRX" ought to know this better than anyone if I think he is the person who was sitting right next to me from the St. Louis region @ the National Event in Peru, In. July 4th weekend of last year. It said very clearly and in bold capitolisation on the aqua piece of paper we handed out to all competators and was taken directly from the rule book
| TheWRX | 01-17-2004 03:04 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mywrx2002 [/i]
[B]As Mr. A Scott stated very much earlier, the is NO spectators at a auto-x event.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, I read that, and I said I understood his point. What's your problem? You run a National event in a blatantly illegal car, and then you start lecturing people about technicalities that have long been explained and settled? You'd better stop cheating before you point your finger at others.
BTW, there are various SCCA press releases talking about making the events "more appealing to spectators", so they don't seem to take the terminology as seriously.
[B]As Mr. A Scott stated very much earlier, the is NO spectators at a auto-x event.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, I read that, and I said I understood his point. What's your problem? You run a National event in a blatantly illegal car, and then you start lecturing people about technicalities that have long been explained and settled? You'd better stop cheating before you point your finger at others.
BTW, there are various SCCA press releases talking about making the events "more appealing to spectators", so they don't seem to take the terminology as seriously.
| mywrx2002 | 01-17-2004 09:33 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TheWRX [/i]
[B]Yes, I read that, and I said I understood his point. What's your problem? You run a National event in a blatantly illegal car, and then you start lecturing people about technicalities that have long been explained and settled? . [/B][/QUOTE]
I had a person protest it a few weeks later...I know wrong thread but update/backdate for the UK chassis you saw is fine with the GFB, and the hoses were found to be the equal of taking MX-5 front tow hooks and turning them backwards so they don't show.
Back to what the thread is about
[B]Yes, I read that, and I said I understood his point. What's your problem? You run a National event in a blatantly illegal car, and then you start lecturing people about technicalities that have long been explained and settled? . [/B][/QUOTE]
I had a person protest it a few weeks later...I know wrong thread but update/backdate for the UK chassis you saw is fine with the GFB, and the hoses were found to be the equal of taking MX-5 front tow hooks and turning them backwards so they don't show.
Back to what the thread is about
| wrxmontao!! | 01-18-2004 01:55 AM |
I'm with RobleINS on this. If done right commercialization of autox should be a good thing. By done right I mean putting cameras on the cars as they get to the line so the viewers have the same view as the driver. Maybe, since we'll have dedicated lots to run this new breed of autoxs, there can be an over head camera that follows the car around as it makes it's way around the course.
I can see that autox might not be a great spectator event but with some clever editing there will be more than enough to fill one hour of good exiting driving. I'll rather watch that on Speed than a 8 hour marathon of speed racer.:lol:
Pedro
I can see that autox might not be a great spectator event but with some clever editing there will be more than enough to fill one hour of good exiting driving. I'll rather watch that on Speed than a 8 hour marathon of speed racer.:lol:
Pedro
| mywrx2002 | 01-18-2004 08:34 AM |
wrxmontao;
I'm with you,( although I do like speed and racer-x also) I think watching how people drive courses and the technology we have theses days with the cone cams makes it a prime time to be able to watch video.
I also like how you siad to keep this a non spectator sport :)
I'm with you,( although I do like speed and racer-x also) I think watching how people drive courses and the technology we have theses days with the cone cams makes it a prime time to be able to watch video.
I also like how you siad to keep this a non spectator sport :)
| DrBiggly | 01-18-2004 11:11 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rebellion[/i]
[B] hmmm we need to get a food vendor for our events here. [/B][/QUOTE]
You have one at some of the events; Mike and Carmen showed up at the 24 hour autox and provided all kinds of good stuff. They even had spare air tanks and some other things for sale.
I also noticed that you were absent at that particular event... ;)
[B] hmmm we need to get a food vendor for our events here. [/B][/QUOTE]
You have one at some of the events; Mike and Carmen showed up at the 24 hour autox and provided all kinds of good stuff. They even had spare air tanks and some other things for sale.
I also noticed that you were absent at that particular event... ;)
| Calamity Jesus | 06-30-2004 01:48 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ascott[/i]
[B]Commercialization would be the end of the sport for most regions. They simply would be unable to attract enough paying spectators to cover their insurance. That would push the cost onto the drivers, and I don't think anybody wants to pay $120 for a single-day local event. [/B][/QUOTE]
While I agree that commercialization may be the end of the sport.. the higher cost would be covered by the commercialization.
[/pointless post]
[B]Commercialization would be the end of the sport for most regions. They simply would be unable to attract enough paying spectators to cover their insurance. That would push the cost onto the drivers, and I don't think anybody wants to pay $120 for a single-day local event. [/B][/QUOTE]
While I agree that commercialization may be the end of the sport.. the higher cost would be covered by the commercialization.
[/pointless post]
| RebelINS | 06-30-2004 04:22 PM |
Hey, I remember making this thread...5 months ago.... ;)
-Wes
-Wes
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