| makofoto | 07-16-2004 11:19 AM |
Need SM Engine Rebuild ... Suggestions ?
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I've been steadily loosing compression ... around 155 two months ago ... yesterday around 132/135. Adding a bit of oil to a cylinder, brings the compression up to 180 ... my rings are going. Using oil ... even though I switch from Mobil 1 to 10/30 Dino oil 2 months ago. I'm getting white smoke after long idles ... with 1 step colder plugs ... could be fouling ... plugs looks good though. No water in my oil. No oil in my IC 2 months ago.
Anyway ... what are my rebuild options. In SM I can of course go bigger ... I guess I will need new gears anyway. I would rather stay with a 5 spd with RA gears then spend the money for a heavier 6 speed. I guess this is the time to put in a Quaife, new clutch and a flywheel ... :-(
What do STI heads give me ... how much are they? I've heard that the stock heads on a EJ25 give lots of torque but looses HP ... sounds O.K. for AX ... not interested in monster HP.
Any recommendations for having the work done in the Los Angeles area?
Anyway ... what are my rebuild options. In SM I can of course go bigger ... I guess I will need new gears anyway. I would rather stay with a 5 spd with RA gears then spend the money for a heavier 6 speed. I guess this is the time to put in a Quaife, new clutch and a flywheel ... :-(
What do STI heads give me ... how much are they? I've heard that the stock heads on a EJ25 give lots of torque but looses HP ... sounds O.K. for AX ... not interested in monster HP.
Any recommendations for having the work done in the Los Angeles area?
| Scooby South | 07-16-2004 11:32 AM |
2.5 STi shortblock.....all you need to do..;)
| makofoto | 07-16-2004 11:42 AM |
Actually I need more then just the EJ257 short block. :-(
... what else ... Turbo, injectors ? I have a bigger fuel pump, JDM STI IC ...
Can I use my ScoobySport Down Pipe, APS Up-Pipe, APS aluminum IC Manifold, 2.5" Stromung Exhaust, ProDrive muffler, EcuTek ... :-(
Maybe I should de-mod, sell, sell, sell and buy a STI and race AS or SK1
... what else ... Turbo, injectors ? I have a bigger fuel pump, JDM STI IC ...
Can I use my ScoobySport Down Pipe, APS Up-Pipe, APS aluminum IC Manifold, 2.5" Stromung Exhaust, ProDrive muffler, EcuTek ... :-(
Maybe I should de-mod, sell, sell, sell and buy a STI and race AS or SK1
| randy zimmer | 07-16-2004 03:50 PM |
130#
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Went to Baie and finished fifth, but once back on the trailer it wouldn't start again.
60# in the EZ cyl.
I'd LOVE to have 130#.
Too much sand and gravel I guess, engine comes out tonight.
rz
60# in the EZ cyl.
I'd LOVE to have 130#.
Too much sand and gravel I guess, engine comes out tonight.
rz
| joe z | 07-16-2004 04:12 PM |
Re: 130#
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by randy zimmer [/i]
[B]Went to Baie and finished fifth, but once back on the trailer it wouldn't start again.
60# in the EZ cyl.
I'd LOVE to have 130#.
Too much sand and gravel I guess, engine comes out tonight.
rz [/B][/QUOTE] :huh: :huh: :huh:
[B]Went to Baie and finished fifth, but once back on the trailer it wouldn't start again.
60# in the EZ cyl.
I'd LOVE to have 130#.
Too much sand and gravel I guess, engine comes out tonight.
rz [/B][/QUOTE] :huh: :huh: :huh:
| Scooby South | 07-16-2004 05:11 PM |
2.5 block will give you the bottom end...
With all your goodies for SM.......should be pretty decent...
I would think...:)
Bill
With all your goodies for SM.......should be pretty decent...
I would think...:)
Bill
| MNbiker | 07-16-2004 05:58 PM |
Phil Bedard (DWX) probably has the most competitive SM WRX currently running at a National level. Maybe he'll chime in with some suggestions.
-Steve
-Steve
| dwx | 07-16-2004 08:48 PM |
EJ257 with forged pistons, have crawford build it. If money is no object, get the 2.6L EJ257 ($5k though :eek: ) I'm running a Pe1818 turbo and love it. My perfect autox turbo for the 2.5 though would be a Garrett GT2871R, but it'd require some custom piping to make work.
Phil
Phil
| AlpineFD | 07-16-2004 10:03 PM |
Hi Mako,
Any idea what caused your engine to let go? Your engine just has the basic bolt ons, with a vishnu reflash right? Maybe standard wrx engines shouldn't be modified afterall.
Any idea what caused your engine to let go? Your engine just has the basic bolt ons, with a vishnu reflash right? Maybe standard wrx engines shouldn't be modified afterall.
| makofoto | 07-17-2004 02:52 AM |
Steve @ Suby Specialties thought I switched to Mobil 1 too early ... @ around 1K ... I was mixing in easy driving with harder pulls to 4 and then 4.5K during the break in period ... I started to AX because I drive so meek and mild on the street ... so perhaps I didn't give the engine enough "tough love" while breaking it in? Our Suby pistons and cylinders are coated with a teflon coating to prevent scuffing from piston slap while breaking the engine in. Because of that coating ... break in can take longer ... and the oil rings might never really seat well using Mobil 1 too early.
Steve had me switched to dino 10/30 (@ 22K) to see if that would correct my heavy oil usage ... and perhaps reverse the condition ... he said that he's seen rings take a better set after going back to dino 10/30. But doesn't look like that happened in my case. although oil usage slowed way down for awhile. In the last few weeks it had gone back up ... about 3/4 quart in the last 1K ... My aggressive 2nd EcuTek map ... 94 octane with boost up to 17 PSI ... used for my four drag race meets last year ... and perhaps around 140+ AX runs this year ... might have been too much for the rings ?
Steve had me switched to dino 10/30 (@ 22K) to see if that would correct my heavy oil usage ... and perhaps reverse the condition ... he said that he's seen rings take a better set after going back to dino 10/30. But doesn't look like that happened in my case. although oil usage slowed way down for awhile. In the last few weeks it had gone back up ... about 3/4 quart in the last 1K ... My aggressive 2nd EcuTek map ... 94 octane with boost up to 17 PSI ... used for my four drag race meets last year ... and perhaps around 140+ AX runs this year ... might have been too much for the rings ?
| dwx | 07-19-2004 09:32 AM |
Detonation kills rings, plain and simple.
| makofoto | 07-22-2004 03:54 PM |
When I checked my compression last week ... I did it with a cold engine. Warmed it up today ... and checked again ... and it only went up to the low 140's ... so still low ... does anyone know what the oem compression specs are?
| dwx | 07-22-2004 04:00 PM |
In the manual I think they say 145-160? are spec. I'll see if I can find it in the manual.
| driggity | 07-22-2004 04:41 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]When I checked my compression last week ... I did it with a cold engine. Warmed it up today ... and checked again ... and it only went up to the low 140's ... so still low ... does anyone know what the oem compression specs are?[/QUOTE]
How big was the variation between cylinders?
How big was the variation between cylinders?
| makofoto | 07-22-2004 04:51 PM |
141 to 144 ... interesting that adding a bit of oil to a cylinder takes it all the way up to 180! I tried to only put a teaspoon in ... perhaps a bit more went in ... and by taking up space in the cylinder ... added to the dramatic increase in pressure ...
| dwx | 07-22-2004 04:57 PM |
Subarus standard values for a hot engine are between 138-166psi. The lowest "acceptable" value is 121. There shouldn't be a variance of more than 7psi per cylinders. If you are getting 144 in the other 3 and 141 in another, then there is nothing wrong. If you are getting 160 in the other 3 and 141-144 in the one, then maybe that ring didn't seat very well, but that doesn't mean there is a problem persay. If it's like 70, then there is a problem.
| makofoto | 07-22-2004 05:01 PM |
great ... they were like 141 141 142 144
| dwx | 07-22-2004 05:13 PM |
Uh yeah that's not an issue at all.
| jonmacs22 | 07-22-2004 05:23 PM |
Contact Dan at Harman Performance. He is in the L.A. area and has build a few engines. Plus he is really nice.
Jon
Jon
| Crawford/I-Speed | 07-22-2004 06:45 PM |
That's great, It seems that you may have found the issue.
If you still need/want a little more pep to your step then give Quirt a ring at //www.crawfordperformance.com/contact/. He kinda has a long history of actually designing and building motors;)
Chris
I-Speed USA
[email][email�protected][/email]
If you still need/want a little more pep to your step then give Quirt a ring at //www.crawfordperformance.com/contact/. He kinda has a long history of actually designing and building motors;)
Chris
I-Speed USA
[email][email�protected][/email]
| ColinL | 07-23-2004 06:00 PM |
white smoke after idling sounds like burning coolant, which usually is a headgasket-- gee that never happens on an EJ series. ;)
| dwx | 07-23-2004 06:45 PM |
Doesn't really happen on EJ20s. EJ25s on the other hand after a few years...
| makofoto | 07-24-2004 12:50 AM |
If my head gasket was going ... wouldn't I have EVEN less compression ... and water in my oil ... no evidence of water mixed with my oil on the dip stick ... any other way of telling that the head gasket is going ... I noticed that the water level in the overflow tank is at the top line ... and I've NEVER added water ...
The head SOA "Mechanic" for the Los Angeles area was at our last event ... and he said the cylinders were just "loading up" during idle ... that perhaps the colder plugs had something to do with it ... but yes, white smoke is puzzling? Without any cats ... perhaps the "load up" gunk wasn't burning off ? But the plugs sure look awfully clean for loaded up cylinders ?
The head SOA "Mechanic" for the Los Angeles area was at our last event ... and he said the cylinders were just "loading up" during idle ... that perhaps the colder plugs had something to do with it ... but yes, white smoke is puzzling? Without any cats ... perhaps the "load up" gunk wasn't burning off ? But the plugs sure look awfully clean for loaded up cylinders ?
| ColinL | 07-24-2004 01:10 AM |
loading up = rich = black smoke
SOA needs a new head mechanic or your description wasn't the greatest. --or, he wasn't listening very carefully.
burning oil is blue smoke, but in trace amounts people often mistake the wispy blue for white. tell you what, the next time you see that smoke (notice I'm not specifying color ;)) get your nose near the pipe and smell. burning coolant smells like sweet like... uh, burning coolant. doesn't matter if it's weeping from the block or going through the cylinders and out the exhaust you'll smell it. you'll also smell absurdly rich exhaust as well-- but you probably won't smell faint oil.
how much oil consumption are we talking here? and is it being consumed all the time, or only after track events (or maybe autocrosses, but doubtful).
btw what are the driveability observations of this car and instrumented testing? if nothing feels different, and your quarter mile mph is the same (boo, I know, but it's a hard number) then maybe you've got an automotive hypochondriac on your hands. :D seriously-- nothing here sounds wrong so far!
SOA needs a new head mechanic or your description wasn't the greatest. --or, he wasn't listening very carefully.
burning oil is blue smoke, but in trace amounts people often mistake the wispy blue for white. tell you what, the next time you see that smoke (notice I'm not specifying color ;)) get your nose near the pipe and smell. burning coolant smells like sweet like... uh, burning coolant. doesn't matter if it's weeping from the block or going through the cylinders and out the exhaust you'll smell it. you'll also smell absurdly rich exhaust as well-- but you probably won't smell faint oil.
how much oil consumption are we talking here? and is it being consumed all the time, or only after track events (or maybe autocrosses, but doubtful).
btw what are the driveability observations of this car and instrumented testing? if nothing feels different, and your quarter mile mph is the same (boo, I know, but it's a hard number) then maybe you've got an automotive hypochondriac on your hands. :D seriously-- nothing here sounds wrong so far!
| makofoto | 07-24-2004 01:30 AM |
When I was warming up my engine for the warm engine compression test yesterday ... I forgot to hook up the MAF sensor ... Big Clouds of BLUE smoke ... from being rich I would think ... BLUE smoke instantly went away when I quickly plugged the MAF sensor cable back in. I thought it was the bit of oil that I had put in one cylinder to test the compression/rings with added oil sealing ... but the BLUE smoke continued until I plugged in the MAF sensor ... and was gone when I restarted the car.
I will do the Sniff test next time ...
Oil consumption seems to be back to 3/4 quart over 600+ miles, including an Evo School on Sat and three AX runs on Sun. AX definitely increases oil use ... I drive pretty easy between events ...
Won't do a 1/4 mile run ... saving my clutch for AX runs ... My best previous 1/4 mile was only 13.9 ... but that was before my down pipe ...
I am a hypochondriac in "real life," ... but you can't argue with the sudden appearance of smoke ... when I've never had smoke before ... just after adding my ScoobySport down pipe and colder plugs. Need to get a new EcuTek tune ....
I will do the Sniff test next time ...
Oil consumption seems to be back to 3/4 quart over 600+ miles, including an Evo School on Sat and three AX runs on Sun. AX definitely increases oil use ... I drive pretty easy between events ...
Won't do a 1/4 mile run ... saving my clutch for AX runs ... My best previous 1/4 mile was only 13.9 ... but that was before my down pipe ...
I am a hypochondriac in "real life," ... but you can't argue with the sudden appearance of smoke ... when I've never had smoke before ... just after adding my ScoobySport down pipe and colder plugs. Need to get a new EcuTek tune ....
| ColinL | 07-24-2004 01:58 AM |
uh, there you have something else to try. put the hotter plugs back in. how much colder are we talking? 2 heat ranges? 1?
| Duffman1 | 07-24-2004 02:02 AM |
Smoke after long idles is normal for our cars, especially when catless, for whatever reason. I've personally seen it on my car(although not since I installed my catted DP), as well as others when they have been allowed to sit idleing for an extended period of time.
| makofoto | 07-24-2004 10:17 AM |
1 step colder ... NGK Iridium BKR7EIX ...
| MNbiker | 07-24-2004 12:17 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]1 step colder ... NGK Iridium BKR7EIX ...[/QUOTE]
FWIW - My tuner had me switch from Iridium plugs to Platinum, as he's discovered several instances of Iridium plugs causing reduced power levels after relatively short life spans. I was down approx. 8-10 hp after approx. 10K miles on Iridium plugs. :(
I'm now running NGK PFR7B plugs (Platinum, one step colder than stock).
-Steve
FWIW - My tuner had me switch from Iridium plugs to Platinum, as he's discovered several instances of Iridium plugs causing reduced power levels after relatively short life spans. I was down approx. 8-10 hp after approx. 10K miles on Iridium plugs. :(
I'm now running NGK PFR7B plugs (Platinum, one step colder than stock).
-Steve
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