| ptclaus98 | 03-19-2006 12:47 PM |
Who won?
I can't watch it.
I can't watch it.
| FrostyAK | 03-19-2006 12:47 PM |
[QUOTE=bitterWRX]
Now I am a big fan of Honda but in my opinion, what Honda did is just cheating. By reducing more weight than allowed by the FIA is serious issues. In my interpretation, Ferrari did break rules, but as far as anyone can tell, they haven't really benefitted a whole lot from it whereas throughout the 2004 and beginning of the 2005 season, both Hondas were extremely quick and were taking podiums. This could be the drivers' skill but given the situation, their victories could very well been assisted by the quicker accleration.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I just don't feel that Ferrari's "creative interpretation" should be judged any less harshly based purely on who they are. Cheating is cheating. Ferrari shouldn't be excused simply because they are not 'taking podiums'. Their lack of high place finishes is more likely a result of their engine problems/Bridgestones.
- Chris
Now I am a big fan of Honda but in my opinion, what Honda did is just cheating. By reducing more weight than allowed by the FIA is serious issues. In my interpretation, Ferrari did break rules, but as far as anyone can tell, they haven't really benefitted a whole lot from it whereas throughout the 2004 and beginning of the 2005 season, both Hondas were extremely quick and were taking podiums. This could be the drivers' skill but given the situation, their victories could very well been assisted by the quicker accleration.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I just don't feel that Ferrari's "creative interpretation" should be judged any less harshly based purely on who they are. Cheating is cheating. Ferrari shouldn't be excused simply because they are not 'taking podiums'. Their lack of high place finishes is more likely a result of their engine problems/Bridgestones.
- Chris
| nick735 | 03-19-2006 01:23 PM |
Alonso = luckiest driver in f1
Raikkonen = unluckiest driver in f1
It drives me absolutely crazy to see this mediocre driver rack up points due to Kimi's misfortunes. :furious:
Raikkonen = unluckiest driver in f1
It drives me absolutely crazy to see this mediocre driver rack up points due to Kimi's misfortunes. :furious:
| bitterWRX | 03-19-2006 01:57 PM |
[QUOTE=nick735]Alonso = luckiest driver in f1
Raikkonen = unluckiest driver in f1
It drives me absolutely crazy to see this mediocre driver rack up points due to Kimi's misfortunes. :furious:[/QUOTE]
I don't see how you think Alonso is the "luckiest" driver. Because he hasn't crashed? Because he didn't have engine failures?
Although I agree with you Raikonnen just seems to have the worst of luck wherever he goes, I absolutely disagree that Alonso is the luckiest driver. I think he's a very skilled driver but at a different level. While Raikonnen's strategy is to just rush the grid and attack strong the whole race, Alonso's skill is to aim for first but just enough as to not over doing it. I guess it's kind of a heated debate as to who is "better" but my vote goes to Alonso. Raikonnen's driving style no doubt contributes to his endless engine failures last year. Alonso is good at preserving his car and in that sense it makes him more CONSISTENT.
Mediocre drivers play in the mid-field or in the back markers... they don't hold off Michael Schumacher for first place.
Raikkonen = unluckiest driver in f1
It drives me absolutely crazy to see this mediocre driver rack up points due to Kimi's misfortunes. :furious:[/QUOTE]
I don't see how you think Alonso is the "luckiest" driver. Because he hasn't crashed? Because he didn't have engine failures?
Although I agree with you Raikonnen just seems to have the worst of luck wherever he goes, I absolutely disagree that Alonso is the luckiest driver. I think he's a very skilled driver but at a different level. While Raikonnen's strategy is to just rush the grid and attack strong the whole race, Alonso's skill is to aim for first but just enough as to not over doing it. I guess it's kind of a heated debate as to who is "better" but my vote goes to Alonso. Raikonnen's driving style no doubt contributes to his endless engine failures last year. Alonso is good at preserving his car and in that sense it makes him more CONSISTENT.
Mediocre drivers play in the mid-field or in the back markers... they don't hold off Michael Schumacher for first place.
| StuBeck | 03-19-2006 02:38 PM |
BAR had one gas tank. What they had was a reserve section of it which was not used for the engine but simply used as ballast which is illegal. This is what caught them out.
Ferrari has spoilers which are moveable, which is illegal. I believe they will fix it by next race or they will get protested and possibly thrown out of the last few races if it is proven they were knowingly running illegal parts.
No driver in F1 is a mediocre driver. Alonso won the championship last year with the second fastest car for most of the year, he is not mediocre.
I am just happy Wili Weber had to eat his words on guaranteeing a win this weekend. I wonder if anyone will mention it when talking to him or if everyone is just a *****. I amnot surprised they were off the pace this weekend, they did teh last thing last year when they ran well at the track they only really ran at (Imola) but the rest of the year weren't very good.
Ferrari has spoilers which are moveable, which is illegal. I believe they will fix it by next race or they will get protested and possibly thrown out of the last few races if it is proven they were knowingly running illegal parts.
No driver in F1 is a mediocre driver. Alonso won the championship last year with the second fastest car for most of the year, he is not mediocre.
I am just happy Wili Weber had to eat his words on guaranteeing a win this weekend. I wonder if anyone will mention it when talking to him or if everyone is just a *****. I amnot surprised they were off the pace this weekend, they did teh last thing last year when they ran well at the track they only really ran at (Imola) but the rest of the year weren't very good.
| Dussander | 03-19-2006 02:50 PM |
Anyone else notice Montoya was missing his left mirror on the last pit stop. I knew it wouldn't last the race the way it was vibrating.
| artkevin | 03-19-2006 03:08 PM |
Bitterwrx, I have to disagree w/ Kimi's driving style contributing to his engine failures. This issue got brought up when ole Ralfie boy spouted off at the mouth that JPM's failures were due to his driving style. Modern F1 motors should not be effected by the driver's style. To add to that Kimi's style is extemerly smooth. He has very progressive inputs and never really stabs and any of the controls (unlike Sato and JV or even Alonso)
My $0.02 on Ferrari. If they were using an illegal element(s) they should be docked the points they earned during the use of those elements. Like BAR last year or Williams/Toyota in Canada 2 years ago. It seems only fair. I did not realise that their front wing was pulling away from the nose like they pinpointed on TV last night. I assumed they were talking about a downward flex in my previous post. From what I saw last nigt it looks almost undeniable.
Seriously, what the hell is up with the wing mirrors? Did some regulation on mirrors change this year? It always seems to be the left one that is all jingal jangly.
Anyone know what the little grey PVC circle on a post thing is that the Meclaren guys hand to Montoya in the garage is? I have no clue. I thought it was a fan but it seems not to have anything in the center.
My $0.02 on Ferrari. If they were using an illegal element(s) they should be docked the points they earned during the use of those elements. Like BAR last year or Williams/Toyota in Canada 2 years ago. It seems only fair. I did not realise that their front wing was pulling away from the nose like they pinpointed on TV last night. I assumed they were talking about a downward flex in my previous post. From what I saw last nigt it looks almost undeniable.
Seriously, what the hell is up with the wing mirrors? Did some regulation on mirrors change this year? It always seems to be the left one that is all jingal jangly.
Anyone know what the little grey PVC circle on a post thing is that the Meclaren guys hand to Montoya in the garage is? I have no clue. I thought it was a fan but it seems not to have anything in the center.
| TimStevens | 03-19-2006 03:25 PM |
It's hooked up to the air compressor they use to power tools and is used for cooling the drivers. I'm not sure why it's shaped that way... Steve M. talked about it last season and I can't remember what he said it was originally for.
And I noticed the left mirrors dancing about too... this was a primarily right-handed track, right? Meaning if the left mirrors were moving about and providing less drag than the right mirrors, that'd give them an advantage in braking and turning into those right-handed turns, right? That's what was running through my mind... but that may be a bit too tin-foil hat-like.
And I noticed the left mirrors dancing about too... this was a primarily right-handed track, right? Meaning if the left mirrors were moving about and providing less drag than the right mirrors, that'd give them an advantage in braking and turning into those right-handed turns, right? That's what was running through my mind... but that may be a bit too tin-foil hat-like.
| REX8 | 03-19-2006 03:34 PM |
[QUOTE=FrostyAK]I agree. I just don't feel that Ferrari's "creative interpretation" should be judged any less harshly based purely on who they are. Cheating is cheating. Ferrari shouldn't be excused simply because they are not 'taking podiums'. Their lack of high place finishes is more likely a result of their engine problems/Bridgestones.
- Chris[/QUOTE]
Honda also had a "creative interpretation" for their tank too. It was a fairly good argument as well. Not as simple as what was posted above.
- Chris[/QUOTE]
Honda also had a "creative interpretation" for their tank too. It was a fairly good argument as well. Not as simple as what was posted above.
| REX8 | 03-19-2006 03:38 PM |
[QUOTE=nick735]Alonso = luckiest driver in f1
Raikkonen = unluckiest driver in f1
It drives me absolutely crazy to see this mediocre driver rack up points due to Kimi's misfortunes. :furious:[/QUOTE]
Misfortunes? Mechanical failures yes...this today...well, I'd say no...
If you are going to call it a misfortune...you better start calling it "misfortune" for everyone else too...JPM, MW, Sato, etc. Because everytime they DNF'd for contact last year, you guys put it to aggressive/stupid driving, regardless of who hit who.
More people on Kimi's junk...yay!
And why do you assume Kimi would have taken a spot in the podium? His speed in qualifying and practice was consistently slower than the front runners....he most likely would have finished in the 4-5 spot.
Pretty sure FA set the fastest lap today..like many days. Mediocre? RIGHT :rolleyes:
Raikkonen = unluckiest driver in f1
It drives me absolutely crazy to see this mediocre driver rack up points due to Kimi's misfortunes. :furious:[/QUOTE]
Misfortunes? Mechanical failures yes...this today...well, I'd say no...
If you are going to call it a misfortune...you better start calling it "misfortune" for everyone else too...JPM, MW, Sato, etc. Because everytime they DNF'd for contact last year, you guys put it to aggressive/stupid driving, regardless of who hit who.
More people on Kimi's junk...yay!
And why do you assume Kimi would have taken a spot in the podium? His speed in qualifying and practice was consistently slower than the front runners....he most likely would have finished in the 4-5 spot.
Pretty sure FA set the fastest lap today..like many days. Mediocre? RIGHT :rolleyes:
| artkevin | 03-19-2006 03:43 PM |
How dare you speak ill of the all powerful Kimi?!?!
:)
:)
| REX8 | 03-19-2006 03:44 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]How dare you speak ill of the all powerful Kimi?!?!
:)[/QUOTE]
I LOVE KIMI!!! But I treat him the SAME as I do the rest of the drivers. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
:)[/QUOTE]
I LOVE KIMI!!! But I treat him the SAME as I do the rest of the drivers. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
| artkevin | 03-19-2006 03:57 PM |
Good to hear. I feel the same way it just feels like some people (Peter Windsor) think he's the second coming of Christ. The only reason to think that he was going to get a podium was his past preformance, nothing about how well Fisi, Alonso and Button were doing. He is one of the top 5 drivers on the planet but he can't pull miracles.
To show the love here is a pretty pic of him going fast last week. :)
[IMG]http://schlegelmilch.smcc.de/archive/preview/e6ffdecf64521ab13e0adec7ce0dde83/32525/0601-[/IMG]
To show the love here is a pretty pic of him going fast last week. :)
[IMG]http://schlegelmilch.smcc.de/archive/preview/e6ffdecf64521ab13e0adec7ce0dde83/32525/0601-[/IMG]
| bitterWRX | 03-19-2006 04:11 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]Bitterwrx, I have to disagree w/ Kimi's driving style contributing to his engine failures. This issue got brought up when ole Ralfie boy spouted off at the mouth that JPM's failures were due to his driving style. Modern F1 motors should not be effected by the driver's style. To add to that Kimi's style is extemerly smooth. He has very progressive inputs and never really stabs and any of the controls (unlike Sato and JV or even Alonso)
[/QUOTE]
I agree. In no means am I saying Kimi is slower or a lamer driver. However, what I was trying to say is the added quality of having one race engine for two weekends. You have to learn to preserve your engine through the two weekends. I am sure the McLaren engine is a great piece of engineering and it suits Kimi perfectly (latter 2005 season) but a pattern I noticed in Kimi is that even after he has achieved a substantial lead ahead of the 2nd place driver, he still pushes it like a bat out of hell, whereas Alonso keeps it at a "safe" pace... pushing only when 2nd place is catching up at a rapid pace.
So maybe I was just a tad unclear with my previous statement. The stress that Kimi puts on his engine (driving style) is paramount compared to other teams. And over two weekends, it could be fatal for the engine.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. In no means am I saying Kimi is slower or a lamer driver. However, what I was trying to say is the added quality of having one race engine for two weekends. You have to learn to preserve your engine through the two weekends. I am sure the McLaren engine is a great piece of engineering and it suits Kimi perfectly (latter 2005 season) but a pattern I noticed in Kimi is that even after he has achieved a substantial lead ahead of the 2nd place driver, he still pushes it like a bat out of hell, whereas Alonso keeps it at a "safe" pace... pushing only when 2nd place is catching up at a rapid pace.
So maybe I was just a tad unclear with my previous statement. The stress that Kimi puts on his engine (driving style) is paramount compared to other teams. And over two weekends, it could be fatal for the engine.
| KAX | 03-19-2006 04:24 PM |
id consider coming from last place to win last year a pretty good miracle. you cant top that, so why would it be so hard for him to come from 6th to 1st? or 2nd or 3rd for that matter. Kimi is, by far, the fastest driver out there when hes running 100%. And thats the reason most people love him so much, including me.
How can you not call what happens to him misfortunes? how is someone running into the back of him his fault? and who said it wasnt a misfortune when montoya got knocked out of a few races last year. and when the hell has Sato been involved in someone [i]elses[/i] mistake?
Alonso is the luckiest driver in F1. you cant say he isnt, he hasnt had an engine failure in forever, never had a suspension break (unless he ran into the wall in montreal) and hes never had his wing come flying off while braking for turn 1. You cant pin that **** on Kimi or anyone other driver, its just the luck of the draw. Fisi has had plenty of trouble, so its not like Renault is a god with building and assembling, but Alonso is the lucky one because it all happens to fisi. He most likely has the highest finishing percentage, and it has nothing to do with him being a different driver then Kimi or anyone else. Hes had about 5 victories that Kimi's McLaren has given up, i call that pretty damn lucky.
also, alonsos style is probably harder on the engine. all brake or all throttle cant be great since its not smooth like blipping the throttle like everyone does. Based on the thottle/brake displays on the TV, kimi is just like everyone else with the little bit of throttle during braking and a smoothing throttle increase. the fact that he pushes 100% all the time shouldnt make a difference if the engine is built correctly, mercedes shouldnt be banking on having a huge lead like that, and should build an engine that lasts the full 2 weekends.
How can you not call what happens to him misfortunes? how is someone running into the back of him his fault? and who said it wasnt a misfortune when montoya got knocked out of a few races last year. and when the hell has Sato been involved in someone [i]elses[/i] mistake?
Alonso is the luckiest driver in F1. you cant say he isnt, he hasnt had an engine failure in forever, never had a suspension break (unless he ran into the wall in montreal) and hes never had his wing come flying off while braking for turn 1. You cant pin that **** on Kimi or anyone other driver, its just the luck of the draw. Fisi has had plenty of trouble, so its not like Renault is a god with building and assembling, but Alonso is the lucky one because it all happens to fisi. He most likely has the highest finishing percentage, and it has nothing to do with him being a different driver then Kimi or anyone else. Hes had about 5 victories that Kimi's McLaren has given up, i call that pretty damn lucky.
also, alonsos style is probably harder on the engine. all brake or all throttle cant be great since its not smooth like blipping the throttle like everyone does. Based on the thottle/brake displays on the TV, kimi is just like everyone else with the little bit of throttle during braking and a smoothing throttle increase. the fact that he pushes 100% all the time shouldnt make a difference if the engine is built correctly, mercedes shouldnt be banking on having a huge lead like that, and should build an engine that lasts the full 2 weekends.
| REX8 | 03-19-2006 04:36 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]id consider coming from last place to win last year a pretty good miracle. you cant top that, so why would it be so hard for him to come from 6th to 1st? or 2nd or 3rd for that matter. Kimi is, by far, the fastest driver out there when hes running 100%. And thats the reason most people love him so much, including me.
How can you not call what happens to him misfortunes? how is someone running into the back of him his fault? and who said it wasnt a misfortune when montoya got knocked out of a few races last year. and when the hell has Sato been involved in someone [i]elses[/i] mistake?
Alonso is the luckiest driver in F1. you cant say he isnt, he hasnt had an engine failure in forever, never had a suspension break (unless he ran into the wall in montreal) and hes never had his wing come flying off while braking for turn 1. You cant pin that **** on Kimi or anyone other driver, its just the luck of the draw. Fisi has had plenty of trouble, so its not like Renault is a god with building and assembling, but Alonso is the lucky one because it all happens to fisi. He most likely has the highest finishing percentage, and it has nothing to do with him being a different driver then Kimi or anyone else. Hes had about 5 victories that Kimi's McLaren has given up, i call that pretty damn lucky.[/QUOTE]
I'd call Kimi unlucky, but that doesn't make FA LUCKY. If his car is reliable and he stays out of trouble, thats NOT luck.
[B]I'm not pinning Kimi's crash on Kimi[/B]...what I'm saying is that when JPM or the like gets hit from behind, or run off the road (as with JV, etc.) people on here generally NEVER say that it was bad luck for JPM like they say for Kimi now. They blamed him last year by not finishing for lossing the constructors championship, even though the events weren't his fault...(anyone say bad luck when he was hit by the man-hole cover last year? No, just another...oh look Kimi rules and JPM didn't finish again)
OR (perfect case in point)...
Everyone forgets to mention the 2 or 3 wins JPM would have had last season if it weren't for being "unlucky"....but everyone mentions Kimi's misfortune.
Again, I love Kimi, maybe my favorite all around driver/personality in F1...but you guys don't treat the drivers equally...at all.
If FA's team does a GREAT job making the car reliable, that in NO WAY means that b/c MM didn't do such a great job that Kimis is unlucky and FA isn't. FA was on a (slower) but more reliable car last year. LUCK had nothing to do with it. [B]An engine failure is not LUCK, its a failure[/B].
Stop calling FA lucky because he had a more reliable engine, thats crazy. He was with the better team. If Kimi were in his car, he'd have won too.
How can you not call what happens to him misfortunes? how is someone running into the back of him his fault? and who said it wasnt a misfortune when montoya got knocked out of a few races last year. and when the hell has Sato been involved in someone [i]elses[/i] mistake?
Alonso is the luckiest driver in F1. you cant say he isnt, he hasnt had an engine failure in forever, never had a suspension break (unless he ran into the wall in montreal) and hes never had his wing come flying off while braking for turn 1. You cant pin that **** on Kimi or anyone other driver, its just the luck of the draw. Fisi has had plenty of trouble, so its not like Renault is a god with building and assembling, but Alonso is the lucky one because it all happens to fisi. He most likely has the highest finishing percentage, and it has nothing to do with him being a different driver then Kimi or anyone else. Hes had about 5 victories that Kimi's McLaren has given up, i call that pretty damn lucky.[/QUOTE]
I'd call Kimi unlucky, but that doesn't make FA LUCKY. If his car is reliable and he stays out of trouble, thats NOT luck.
[B]I'm not pinning Kimi's crash on Kimi[/B]...what I'm saying is that when JPM or the like gets hit from behind, or run off the road (as with JV, etc.) people on here generally NEVER say that it was bad luck for JPM like they say for Kimi now. They blamed him last year by not finishing for lossing the constructors championship, even though the events weren't his fault...(anyone say bad luck when he was hit by the man-hole cover last year? No, just another...oh look Kimi rules and JPM didn't finish again)
OR (perfect case in point)...
Everyone forgets to mention the 2 or 3 wins JPM would have had last season if it weren't for being "unlucky"....but everyone mentions Kimi's misfortune.
Again, I love Kimi, maybe my favorite all around driver/personality in F1...but you guys don't treat the drivers equally...at all.
If FA's team does a GREAT job making the car reliable, that in NO WAY means that b/c MM didn't do such a great job that Kimis is unlucky and FA isn't. FA was on a (slower) but more reliable car last year. LUCK had nothing to do with it. [B]An engine failure is not LUCK, its a failure[/B].
Stop calling FA lucky because he had a more reliable engine, thats crazy. He was with the better team. If Kimi were in his car, he'd have won too.
| artkevin | 03-19-2006 04:42 PM |
I don't think it was a miracle. I think it was good planning and hard driving for the entire race. Not very many drivers can keep his pace for the entire run. Alonso and MS being two that can go 10/10th for as long as they need to.
Sato got destroyed by Heidfled back at the A1 ring a few years back when his rear brake went pop. He was lucky not get seriously injured in it.
Alonso has amazing relaiblity but one thing that seems to be overlooked about his champinship was his outstanding consistency. He brought home the points whenever he could. Other then the brain fade in Canada I think the only other races he didn't bring home points in were USGP and Hungary. Kimi on the other hand gets major credit for pushing his car to the limit and having it fail like it did in Germany. Most people I talk to seem to overlook the fact that it was Kimi who flat spotted his tire and then continued to push until the suspension failed. If he hung on and got second he would not have given Fernando a 10 point swing but a 2 point swing.
Again, Kimi is amazing and any team should fall over themselves to sign him if they get a chance but part of the credit of his not winning the 05 WC has to go to him just as it has to go to others who had the car to do it (JPM, Fisi etc.)
Sato got destroyed by Heidfled back at the A1 ring a few years back when his rear brake went pop. He was lucky not get seriously injured in it.
Alonso has amazing relaiblity but one thing that seems to be overlooked about his champinship was his outstanding consistency. He brought home the points whenever he could. Other then the brain fade in Canada I think the only other races he didn't bring home points in were USGP and Hungary. Kimi on the other hand gets major credit for pushing his car to the limit and having it fail like it did in Germany. Most people I talk to seem to overlook the fact that it was Kimi who flat spotted his tire and then continued to push until the suspension failed. If he hung on and got second he would not have given Fernando a 10 point swing but a 2 point swing.
Again, Kimi is amazing and any team should fall over themselves to sign him if they get a chance but part of the credit of his not winning the 05 WC has to go to him just as it has to go to others who had the car to do it (JPM, Fisi etc.)
| KAX | 03-19-2006 04:45 PM |
the lucky part comes from the fact that Fisichella had problems all the time last year, some his own fault, some Renaults. but not a single problem on alonsos car, thats lucky.
and im with you on the JPM misfortunes, he did lose one or two races by engine failures while leading. For awhile there it was every other race with them, one race it would be kimi, and hed retire from the lead, and the next race JPM would retire from the lead. He also had alot of problem with backrunners, getting hit from behind while trying to pass them (somewhat aggressive driving, but the backmarkers should have given up easier). Thats why they lost the constructors, too many misfortunes for both of them.
but you have to see that when your teamate has problem after problem, but your car is spot on, its lucky. I doubt renault intentionally gave Fisichella a bad car, or the worse car, so it is luck that kept his car on the road while his teamate pulled into the pits.
kimis nurburgring incident was his fault, i know that for certain. of course the tire rule didnt help at all, but he was the one who forgot he was in F1 rather then the WRC.
and im with you on the JPM misfortunes, he did lose one or two races by engine failures while leading. For awhile there it was every other race with them, one race it would be kimi, and hed retire from the lead, and the next race JPM would retire from the lead. He also had alot of problem with backrunners, getting hit from behind while trying to pass them (somewhat aggressive driving, but the backmarkers should have given up easier). Thats why they lost the constructors, too many misfortunes for both of them.
but you have to see that when your teamate has problem after problem, but your car is spot on, its lucky. I doubt renault intentionally gave Fisichella a bad car, or the worse car, so it is luck that kept his car on the road while his teamate pulled into the pits.
kimis nurburgring incident was his fault, i know that for certain. of course the tire rule didnt help at all, but he was the one who forgot he was in F1 rather then the WRC.
| REX8 | 03-19-2006 04:50 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]but you have to see that when your teamate has problem after problem, but your car is spot on, its lucky. I doubt renault intentionally gave Fisichella a bad car, or the worse car, so it is luck that kept his car on the road while his teamate pulled into the pits.[/QUOTE]
I agree with that. I'm just kinda stuck on the point that when a reliable car beats an unreliable car, thats not fate, thats not luck, thats the better design prevailing. Although throwing Fisi into the mix changes that position... :eek:
I agree with that. I'm just kinda stuck on the point that when a reliable car beats an unreliable car, thats not fate, thats not luck, thats the better design prevailing. Although throwing Fisi into the mix changes that position... :eek:
| KAX | 03-19-2006 04:57 PM |
yeh, the difference between Kimis car and Alonso car cant be pegged to luck, to many variables.
| bitterWRX | 03-19-2006 05:08 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]the lucky part comes from the fact that Fisichella had problems all the time last year, some his own fault, some Renaults. but not a single problem on alonsos car, thats lucky.
but you have to see that when your teamate has problem after problem, but your car is spot on, its lucky. I doubt renault intentionally gave Fisichella a bad car, or the worse car, so it is luck that kept his car on the road while his teamate pulled into the pits.
[/QUOTE]
Well the reason I don't want to call it "lucky" is also the deciding driver order. I know it's against the rules in FIA but there has been multiple instances where team orders were given in favor of driver order. And you CANNOT say that team orders don't exist in F1 because they still play favoritism in the sport. That's what makes it so frustrating sometimes.
I don't think it's so much that a team gives driver one a more reliable car than driver two, but rather Alonso/Kimi gets much more team support from the team principal than their teammates Fisci/JPM.
but you have to see that when your teamate has problem after problem, but your car is spot on, its lucky. I doubt renault intentionally gave Fisichella a bad car, or the worse car, so it is luck that kept his car on the road while his teamate pulled into the pits.
[/QUOTE]
Well the reason I don't want to call it "lucky" is also the deciding driver order. I know it's against the rules in FIA but there has been multiple instances where team orders were given in favor of driver order. And you CANNOT say that team orders don't exist in F1 because they still play favoritism in the sport. That's what makes it so frustrating sometimes.
I don't think it's so much that a team gives driver one a more reliable car than driver two, but rather Alonso/Kimi gets much more team support from the team principal than their teammates Fisci/JPM.
| artkevin | 03-19-2006 05:13 PM |
Was anyone else highly surprised to see MS not pass Massa in the closing stages?
| REX8 | 03-19-2006 05:15 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]Was anyone else highly surprised to see MS not pass Massa in the closing stages?[/QUOTE]
Not really...Massa is fast. MS is good at going fast for an entire race (like all champs are).
When Massa see's him in his mirror, he is capable enought to turn it on when he has to. or where you referring to the "team orders" post above?
Not really...Massa is fast. MS is good at going fast for an entire race (like all champs are).
When Massa see's him in his mirror, he is capable enought to turn it on when he has to. or where you referring to the "team orders" post above?
| JoD | 03-19-2006 05:16 PM |
My two pennies...
Kimi is obviously my favorite driver. There is no secret in that. I do think he has done some of the most amazing drives ever. Hell, Suzuka last year made me cry I was so pumped by the whole thing.
I do think he and Fisi are the two unluckiest guys in the field. I also think they have made their share of mistakes too.
Do I think Kimi is the most worthy non-winner of a WDC yet (among the current field), and hope he gets one this year. Hell yes. Is Alonso still a great driver. Yes.
I love my boy to the end. If I didn't respect his mad skills there is no way I would have got his helmet tattooed on my hip. When he wins the WDC, I will be the happiest chick on the planet. I appreciate that he is doing his best at all times, and isn't complaining about the crap that keeps happening along the way.
Kimi is obviously my favorite driver. There is no secret in that. I do think he has done some of the most amazing drives ever. Hell, Suzuka last year made me cry I was so pumped by the whole thing.
I do think he and Fisi are the two unluckiest guys in the field. I also think they have made their share of mistakes too.
Do I think Kimi is the most worthy non-winner of a WDC yet (among the current field), and hope he gets one this year. Hell yes. Is Alonso still a great driver. Yes.
I love my boy to the end. If I didn't respect his mad skills there is no way I would have got his helmet tattooed on my hip. When he wins the WDC, I will be the happiest chick on the planet. I appreciate that he is doing his best at all times, and isn't complaining about the crap that keeps happening along the way.
| artkevin | 03-19-2006 05:21 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8]Not really...Massa is fast. MS is good at going fast for an entire race (like all champs are).
When Massa see's him in his mirror, he is capable enought to turn it on when he has to. or where you referring to the "team orders" post above?[/QUOTE]
Team orders
When Massa see's him in his mirror, he is capable enought to turn it on when he has to. or where you referring to the "team orders" post above?[/QUOTE]
Team orders
| nick735 | 03-19-2006 05:26 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]id consider coming from last place to win last year a pretty good miracle. you cant top that, so why would it be so hard for him to come from 6th to 1st? or 2nd or 3rd for that matter. Kimi is, by far, the fastest driver out there when hes running 100%. And thats the reason most people love him so much, including me.
How can you not call what happens to him misfortunes? how is someone running into the back of him his fault? and who said it wasnt a misfortune when montoya got knocked out of a few races last year. and when the hell has Sato been involved in someone [i]elses[/i] mistake?
Alonso is the luckiest driver in F1. you cant say he isnt, he hasnt had an engine failure in forever, never had a suspension break (unless he ran into the wall in montreal) and hes never had his wing come flying off while braking for turn 1. You cant pin that **** on Kimi or anyone other driver, its just the luck of the draw. Fisi has had plenty of trouble, so its not like Renault is a god with building and assembling, but Alonso is the lucky one because it all happens to fisi. He most likely has the highest finishing percentage, and it has nothing to do with him being a different driver then Kimi or anyone else. Hes had about 5 victories that Kimi's McLaren has given up, i call that pretty damn lucky.
also, alonsos style is probably harder on the engine. all brake or all throttle cant be great since its not smooth like blipping the throttle like everyone does. Based on the thottle/brake displays on the TV, kimi is just like everyone else with the little bit of throttle during braking and a smoothing throttle increase. the fact that he pushes 100% all the time shouldnt make a difference if the engine is built correctly, mercedes shouldnt be banking on having a huge lead like that, and should build an engine that lasts the full 2 weekends.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you 100%
How can you not call what happens to him misfortunes? how is someone running into the back of him his fault? and who said it wasnt a misfortune when montoya got knocked out of a few races last year. and when the hell has Sato been involved in someone [i]elses[/i] mistake?
Alonso is the luckiest driver in F1. you cant say he isnt, he hasnt had an engine failure in forever, never had a suspension break (unless he ran into the wall in montreal) and hes never had his wing come flying off while braking for turn 1. You cant pin that **** on Kimi or anyone other driver, its just the luck of the draw. Fisi has had plenty of trouble, so its not like Renault is a god with building and assembling, but Alonso is the lucky one because it all happens to fisi. He most likely has the highest finishing percentage, and it has nothing to do with him being a different driver then Kimi or anyone else. Hes had about 5 victories that Kimi's McLaren has given up, i call that pretty damn lucky.
also, alonsos style is probably harder on the engine. all brake or all throttle cant be great since its not smooth like blipping the throttle like everyone does. Based on the thottle/brake displays on the TV, kimi is just like everyone else with the little bit of throttle during braking and a smoothing throttle increase. the fact that he pushes 100% all the time shouldnt make a difference if the engine is built correctly, mercedes shouldnt be banking on having a huge lead like that, and should build an engine that lasts the full 2 weekends.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you 100%
| TimStevens | 03-19-2006 05:39 PM |
Jeebus, and I thought fanbois were limited to comic books and video game consoles :p
| MattDell | 03-19-2006 07:41 PM |
I didn't think this was a very entertaining race. An interesting one, for sure, but not entertaining.
I really wish Motorsport.com would get their act together. I wanna know my Pick6 results!
-Matt
I really wish Motorsport.com would get their act together. I wanna know my Pick6 results!
-Matt
| KAX | 03-19-2006 07:44 PM |
an interesting race, but not interesting? hmm
yeh, i didnt enjoy it too much. fell asleep when i watched it the first time, then got bored with about 20 laps to go when i watched it again at 12:30
yeh, i didnt enjoy it too much. fell asleep when i watched it the first time, then got bored with about 20 laps to go when i watched it again at 12:30
| finnRex | 03-19-2006 08:28 PM |
Not a whole lot of action not interesting. Interesting in that there were so many engine failures, shakeups at the grid.
Mika
Mika
| artkevin | 03-19-2006 09:09 PM |
A pro Sato article on PlanetF1.com no less!
Malaysian GP: Winners + Losers
Sunday March 19 2006
Star of the Race
Takuma Sato, Super Aguri 14th
Takuma Sato may have started the race in a four-year-old Arrows with a Honda strapped in the back, but ten laps into the race he was in 15th place ahead of both Midland Cars and one of the Toro Rossos! And this wasn't thanks to a first lap mellee that had reshuffled the order, this was on a track with two, if not three, great places to overtake with fast corners that are a real test for an F1 car.
Sato's pace was fantastic for a team that has been thrown together at the last minute and Taku's drive was a superb reward for all the staff at Leafield who have put in monumental hours to get the cars to the grid.
Such was the Japanese driver's pace that various pursuing Midland and Toro Rosso drivers failed to look in their rear view mirrors for cars that were about to lap them. He may be wayward at times, but today Taku San, we salute you.
Overtaking Move of the Race
Fernando Alonso, Renault, Lap One
Though it would have been great to see the fast-starting DC whomp his Red Bull past six cars at the start, and then inherit two places when Raikkonen and Klien fell out, it ultimately counted for nothing.
Fernando Alonso's start was the stuff of Best Case GP Simulations. Renaults always used to have fantastic grunt off the line thanks to Tad Czpaski's electronic wizardry, but last year that edge seemed to have been blunted. In Sepang whatever button Fernando was able to press, he pressed it.
Passing four of the top cars before the first corner is a fantastic feat, made even better by the fact that Alonso had more fuel on board than any of the cars around him. Last week his opening sprint past Massa had proved decisive and this week his opening lao heroics were just as important.
WINNERS
Giancarlo Fisichella, Renault, 1st
It's amazing what you can do with a '****ing ***t' car, isn't it. After Renault 'accidentally' put double the fuel into Alonso's car for Qualifying, Fisi had a clear run at his first win of the 2006 season.
We say 'accidentally' because the phenomenon of the leaving-Renault-driver getting poor treatment from the team is legend. ****-up theory suggests that it's probably a mistake, because it's just too early in the season. But Flav and Machiavelli are/were both Italian...
Fisi drove a competent if inconsistent race to win. While the pursuing Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso consistently reduced their lap times, Fisi's lap times were up and down, despite having no serious traffic in front of him in the early stages. One lap he'd be very quick, the next, half a second away.
Interesting to hear the Renault team nagging him all the way through the race to keep his race pace up. Sometimes drivers need the occasional PUSH message, but Fisi seems to need it all the time.
You get the impression that Fernando, Kimi and Michael wouldn't need to be nagged to go faster.
Fernando Alonso, Renault, 2nd
Fernando drove another brilliant race, and had it not been for Sato's heroic efforts would have picked up the PF1 Star of the Race. With a race engine that had gone double the distance (and hence slightly down on horsepower) than Fisi's, the wrong strategy and a 4th row grid start he almost won the race.
They had to tell him to slow down after the final pit-stops to ensure he finished. Pat Symmonds revealed afterwards that the team had had concerns over his fuel pump and a few errant electrics on the car and that despite putting in 1:36 laps to the finish, Fernando was in nursey mode.
Jenson Button, Honda, 3rd
It might not have looked like it, but Button worked hard for his third place,
pressing when he could, being patient when he couldn't. It was a fine performance, which given a bit more luck in traffic could have got him second.
Juan Montoya, McLaren, 4th
Another lonely, problem-free trundle from Montoya -unchallenged and unchallenging. The team were low on downforce thanks to all the venting and cooling they had to do on their engine - in two weeks' time, it'll be a different story in Melbourne.
Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 5th
A great drive from the Brazilian who made amends for last week. Despite his errant, wheel-locking style he got ahead of Michael Schumacher on what was not the optimum strategy. It would have been interesting to know just how tempted Monsieur Todt was to making that "move over" call.
Ferrari house style since 2002 has been to keep positions after the final pit-stops. That's why Rubens got so annoyed when Michael Schumacher nicked a place off him at Monaco last year. Let's see if it changes in 2006.
Michael Schumacher, Ferrari, 6th
Given the number of engine changes the team have suffered in just two races, Schumi is doing mighty fine to be 2nd in the drivers' championship. Today Michael drove well, though his lap times were quite variable in the middle section of the race. It was difficult to know if that was caused by traffic or he was driving round a problem. This engine will need to last around Albert Park.
BMW-Sauber, 7th and DNF
Jacques Villeneuve scored two points, though Nick Heidfeld's retirement handed them one of them
LOSERS
Williams, DNF and DNF
Rosberg did brilliantly well to put his car P3 on the grid, but his start was wayward. Trying to push Webbo onto the grass may be the way you start in GP2, but in F1 it can bring tears. As it was, it lost him places. Rest assured, Frank and Patrick will be having a quiet word.
Mark Webber did everything right until his engine failed.
Rubens Barrichello, Honda, 10th
Rubens has diagnosed his problem as being "a little too polite" with his throttle pedal - i.e. the Ferrari could stand go-kart treatment of putting his right foot down and letting the traction control sort it all out.
Before the race he said: "It was sad yesterday, but it's okay we've renovated." A nasty case of Blundell-it is catching on.
But then the race started and he got to 10th, while Felipe Massa who was with him at the back of the grid, took 5th.
Kimi Raikkonen, McLaren, DNF
This race needed Raikkonen or Schumacher on a charge to bring some life into it - as it was the two Renaults were allowed to battle it out at the front without challenge in the closing laps of the race.
It was shades of the 2002 season, but with the colour blue instead of red.
Though Raikkonen was the innocent party in his accident, Ron Dennis may well be asking both his drivers questions about the line they took into Turn 4.
Christian Klien, Red Bull, DNF
Not wishing to be mean on Christian Klien but why wasn't he investigated by the stewards for causing an avoidable accident? When you shunt into someone's rear and end their race that's a clear investigation.
Michael was investigated for spinning Jarno Trulli round one year under similar circumstances, so why not Klien?
David Coulthard, Red Bull, DNF
Great start, rubbish hydraulics.
That Mark - git orf me barra - Blundell moment
Our right royal cockney geezer was in poetic mode for the Malaysian GP. Here's how Blunders described Super Aguri's efforts to get their car on the grid.
"They've done a little bit of cobbling up on it, but if they finish today it'll be a major thumbs up."
He described Kimi's reaction to his retirement as "complacent" when he probably meant "resigned".
However nothing was to prepare us for the devastating sentence he delivered in the post-race analysis. This is surely the Michael Schumacher of sentences, one that can never be beaten. Take provisions with you, PF1 readers, once into this sentence, it will be a long time before you come out the other side.
Talking to Steve Rider about the Renault team (who conveniently walked past him holding both Sepang trophies while he was saying it):
"It's a sign of a great team as well that they actually make a small mistake and they can compensate for it and they're very very much on the pace in this given point in time with their heads as much as what they are with those cars on the circuit and everything that goes their way they maintain and make a big thing of it and if it doesn't go their way they soon come back and fight with it."
Carry on Qualifying
Wehey, it's a right old Carry On trying to commentate on the new qualifying format. We thought ITV might edit some bits out of the replayed qualifying show, but they left them in.
At the end of Session 1 Blunders and Steve were under the firm impression that Michael Schumacher had failed to make it through to Session 2 despite coming 16th. James Allen had to add to his commentary in Session 2 "to clear up any confusion for you, Michael Schumacher IS still running."
Brundle tried the trick he'd done last week of reading out the bottom six drivers in Session 1 as the most vulnerable when the computer had already shuffled the names so it wasn't the six slowest.
In Session 3 we had the gem of a "Ralf Schumacher's not out there - oh of course, he had an engine failure..."
Then at the end of it all, they tried to put Michael Schumacher tenth on the grid. Nightmare.
However, there is one saving grace. Just imagine what confusion would reign if Murray Walker was still commentating - pit-stops used to confuse Murray.
Malaysian GP: Winners + Losers
Sunday March 19 2006
Star of the Race
Takuma Sato, Super Aguri 14th
Takuma Sato may have started the race in a four-year-old Arrows with a Honda strapped in the back, but ten laps into the race he was in 15th place ahead of both Midland Cars and one of the Toro Rossos! And this wasn't thanks to a first lap mellee that had reshuffled the order, this was on a track with two, if not three, great places to overtake with fast corners that are a real test for an F1 car.
Sato's pace was fantastic for a team that has been thrown together at the last minute and Taku's drive was a superb reward for all the staff at Leafield who have put in monumental hours to get the cars to the grid.
Such was the Japanese driver's pace that various pursuing Midland and Toro Rosso drivers failed to look in their rear view mirrors for cars that were about to lap them. He may be wayward at times, but today Taku San, we salute you.
Overtaking Move of the Race
Fernando Alonso, Renault, Lap One
Though it would have been great to see the fast-starting DC whomp his Red Bull past six cars at the start, and then inherit two places when Raikkonen and Klien fell out, it ultimately counted for nothing.
Fernando Alonso's start was the stuff of Best Case GP Simulations. Renaults always used to have fantastic grunt off the line thanks to Tad Czpaski's electronic wizardry, but last year that edge seemed to have been blunted. In Sepang whatever button Fernando was able to press, he pressed it.
Passing four of the top cars before the first corner is a fantastic feat, made even better by the fact that Alonso had more fuel on board than any of the cars around him. Last week his opening sprint past Massa had proved decisive and this week his opening lao heroics were just as important.
WINNERS
Giancarlo Fisichella, Renault, 1st
It's amazing what you can do with a '****ing ***t' car, isn't it. After Renault 'accidentally' put double the fuel into Alonso's car for Qualifying, Fisi had a clear run at his first win of the 2006 season.
We say 'accidentally' because the phenomenon of the leaving-Renault-driver getting poor treatment from the team is legend. ****-up theory suggests that it's probably a mistake, because it's just too early in the season. But Flav and Machiavelli are/were both Italian...
Fisi drove a competent if inconsistent race to win. While the pursuing Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso consistently reduced their lap times, Fisi's lap times were up and down, despite having no serious traffic in front of him in the early stages. One lap he'd be very quick, the next, half a second away.
Interesting to hear the Renault team nagging him all the way through the race to keep his race pace up. Sometimes drivers need the occasional PUSH message, but Fisi seems to need it all the time.
You get the impression that Fernando, Kimi and Michael wouldn't need to be nagged to go faster.
Fernando Alonso, Renault, 2nd
Fernando drove another brilliant race, and had it not been for Sato's heroic efforts would have picked up the PF1 Star of the Race. With a race engine that had gone double the distance (and hence slightly down on horsepower) than Fisi's, the wrong strategy and a 4th row grid start he almost won the race.
They had to tell him to slow down after the final pit-stops to ensure he finished. Pat Symmonds revealed afterwards that the team had had concerns over his fuel pump and a few errant electrics on the car and that despite putting in 1:36 laps to the finish, Fernando was in nursey mode.
Jenson Button, Honda, 3rd
It might not have looked like it, but Button worked hard for his third place,
pressing when he could, being patient when he couldn't. It was a fine performance, which given a bit more luck in traffic could have got him second.
Juan Montoya, McLaren, 4th
Another lonely, problem-free trundle from Montoya -unchallenged and unchallenging. The team were low on downforce thanks to all the venting and cooling they had to do on their engine - in two weeks' time, it'll be a different story in Melbourne.
Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 5th
A great drive from the Brazilian who made amends for last week. Despite his errant, wheel-locking style he got ahead of Michael Schumacher on what was not the optimum strategy. It would have been interesting to know just how tempted Monsieur Todt was to making that "move over" call.
Ferrari house style since 2002 has been to keep positions after the final pit-stops. That's why Rubens got so annoyed when Michael Schumacher nicked a place off him at Monaco last year. Let's see if it changes in 2006.
Michael Schumacher, Ferrari, 6th
Given the number of engine changes the team have suffered in just two races, Schumi is doing mighty fine to be 2nd in the drivers' championship. Today Michael drove well, though his lap times were quite variable in the middle section of the race. It was difficult to know if that was caused by traffic or he was driving round a problem. This engine will need to last around Albert Park.
BMW-Sauber, 7th and DNF
Jacques Villeneuve scored two points, though Nick Heidfeld's retirement handed them one of them
LOSERS
Williams, DNF and DNF
Rosberg did brilliantly well to put his car P3 on the grid, but his start was wayward. Trying to push Webbo onto the grass may be the way you start in GP2, but in F1 it can bring tears. As it was, it lost him places. Rest assured, Frank and Patrick will be having a quiet word.
Mark Webber did everything right until his engine failed.
Rubens Barrichello, Honda, 10th
Rubens has diagnosed his problem as being "a little too polite" with his throttle pedal - i.e. the Ferrari could stand go-kart treatment of putting his right foot down and letting the traction control sort it all out.
Before the race he said: "It was sad yesterday, but it's okay we've renovated." A nasty case of Blundell-it is catching on.
But then the race started and he got to 10th, while Felipe Massa who was with him at the back of the grid, took 5th.
Kimi Raikkonen, McLaren, DNF
This race needed Raikkonen or Schumacher on a charge to bring some life into it - as it was the two Renaults were allowed to battle it out at the front without challenge in the closing laps of the race.
It was shades of the 2002 season, but with the colour blue instead of red.
Though Raikkonen was the innocent party in his accident, Ron Dennis may well be asking both his drivers questions about the line they took into Turn 4.
Christian Klien, Red Bull, DNF
Not wishing to be mean on Christian Klien but why wasn't he investigated by the stewards for causing an avoidable accident? When you shunt into someone's rear and end their race that's a clear investigation.
Michael was investigated for spinning Jarno Trulli round one year under similar circumstances, so why not Klien?
David Coulthard, Red Bull, DNF
Great start, rubbish hydraulics.
That Mark - git orf me barra - Blundell moment
Our right royal cockney geezer was in poetic mode for the Malaysian GP. Here's how Blunders described Super Aguri's efforts to get their car on the grid.
"They've done a little bit of cobbling up on it, but if they finish today it'll be a major thumbs up."
He described Kimi's reaction to his retirement as "complacent" when he probably meant "resigned".
However nothing was to prepare us for the devastating sentence he delivered in the post-race analysis. This is surely the Michael Schumacher of sentences, one that can never be beaten. Take provisions with you, PF1 readers, once into this sentence, it will be a long time before you come out the other side.
Talking to Steve Rider about the Renault team (who conveniently walked past him holding both Sepang trophies while he was saying it):
"It's a sign of a great team as well that they actually make a small mistake and they can compensate for it and they're very very much on the pace in this given point in time with their heads as much as what they are with those cars on the circuit and everything that goes their way they maintain and make a big thing of it and if it doesn't go their way they soon come back and fight with it."
Carry on Qualifying
Wehey, it's a right old Carry On trying to commentate on the new qualifying format. We thought ITV might edit some bits out of the replayed qualifying show, but they left them in.
At the end of Session 1 Blunders and Steve were under the firm impression that Michael Schumacher had failed to make it through to Session 2 despite coming 16th. James Allen had to add to his commentary in Session 2 "to clear up any confusion for you, Michael Schumacher IS still running."
Brundle tried the trick he'd done last week of reading out the bottom six drivers in Session 1 as the most vulnerable when the computer had already shuffled the names so it wasn't the six slowest.
In Session 3 we had the gem of a "Ralf Schumacher's not out there - oh of course, he had an engine failure..."
Then at the end of it all, they tried to put Michael Schumacher tenth on the grid. Nightmare.
However, there is one saving grace. Just imagine what confusion would reign if Murray Walker was still commentating - pit-stops used to confuse Murray.
| MattDell | 03-19-2006 09:29 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]an interesting race, but not interesting? hmm[/QUOTE]
Haha, I mixed up my words. :p
Haha, I mixed up my words. :p
| Subaru_555 | 03-19-2006 10:01 PM |
Porsche Super Cup Torrents
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Hey guys. I know the Porsche Super Cup season started up not too long ago. Does anybody know where to find torrents because SpeedTV doesn't cover Porsche Super Cup until the season is over.
| nick735 | 03-20-2006 03:05 AM |
Ok let�s do the math on the 2005 season. Let�s assume that both drivers had no RACE mechanical failures last year, and totally forget grid penalties due to mechanical failures during practice or qualifying.
[B]Round 1: Australia[/B]
Mclaren was very uncompetitive at the beginning of the season, and therefore Kimi only managed to score 1 point. On the other hand, the Renaults were fast right off the bat , which enabled Alonso to finish third behind his teammate Fisichella scoring 6 points.
Kimi 1 : Alonso: 6
[B]Round 2: Malaysia [/B]
Again the Renaults were very strong compared to the Mclarens. Alonso got his first of many wins of the 2005 season scoring 10 points, while Kimi finished out of the points.
Kimi 1 : Alonso 16
[B]Round 3: Bahrain[/B]
During the 3rd round the Mclarens are starting to look more competitive with Kimi finishing 3rd scoring 6 points. Alonso got his second win of the season scoring yet another 10 points.
Kimi 7 : Alonso 26
[B]Round 4 San Marino[/B]
This is where things really start to get interesting. The Mclarens are finally competitive, and Kimi gets his first pole. During the race Kimi sets himself apart from the field with a gap of 8+ seconds after only 9 laps. However just when the Mclarens are looking fast, Kimi�s bad luck sets in and he is forced to retire at lap 9 due to a driveshaft failure. Due to Kimis exceptional pace in the first 9 laps, I believe that he would have won this race, therefore I will add 10 �fictional� points to his score. If Kimi would have won, Alonso would have scored 8 points rather than the 10 he did.
Kimi 7 : Alonso 36
Fictional Points : Kimi 17 : Alonso 34
[B]Round 5: Spain[/B]
Halleluiah Kimi has won, and what a place to do it! After qualifying first, Kimi devastates the competition, beating second place Alonso by 27.6 seconds at his home Gran Prix!
Kimi 17 : Alonso 44
Fictional Points : Kimi 27 : Alonso 42
[B]Round 6: Monaco[/B]
Yet another great drive from Kimi, where he was dominant from Friday on. Kimi started first on the grid along side Alonso in second, and never looked back. He sailed to an easy victory beating Alonso, who finished 4th, by over 36 seconds!
Kimi 27 : Alonso 49
Fictional Points: Kimi 37 : Alonso 47
[B]Round 7: Europe (Nurburgring)[/B]
This is the infamous race where Kimi had a suspension failure on the very last lap after absolutely dominating the entire race. Even though it was unfortunate that Kimi had to retire on the very last lap, it was mainly his fault since he flat spotted the tire causing severe vibrations. Because the failure was mainly Kimi�s fault, I will not give him any points.
Kimi 27 : Alonso 59
Fictional Points : Kimi 37 : Alonso 57
[B]Round 8: Canada[/B]
Just like Kimi did last race, Alonso also suffered from brain fade and crashed into a wall forcing him to retire. Kimi ended up winning the race after qualifying 7th on the grid.
Kimi 37 : Alonso 59
Fictional Points: Kimi 47 : Alonso 57
[B]Round 9: United States Gran Prix[/B]
I don�t want to get into the whole fiasco that was the 05 US Gran Prix. However I would like to make the assumption that Kimi would have won the race based on his extraordinary speed that he showed in qualifying and practice. For this race, I will give Raikkonen the race win (10 points), and Alonso 2nd place. I consider giving Alonso 2nd place a gift considering his sub par 6th place grid position.
Kimi 37 : Alonso 59
Fictional Points: Kimi 57 : Alonso 65
[B]Round 10: French Gran Prix[/B]
Alonso drove an impressive race, winning the French Gran Prix. He qualified in first, and beat Kimi, who started 13th, by only 11.8 seconds. Since Kimi�s mechanical failure came during qualifying I will not add to his fictional points. On a side note, I believe Kimi would have won if he had started in 3rd rather than 13th, since he had set fastest lap, and was only 11 seconds behind.
Kimi: 45 : Alonso 69
Fictional Points: Kimi 65 : Alonso 75
[B]Round 11: British Gran Prix[/B]
Just like the French Gran Prix two weeks prior, Kimi has a mechanical failure during qualifying. This forces him to start from 12th on the grid after finishing behind Alonso who out qualified him by 27 thousandths of a second. Kimi ends up clawing his way through the grid finishing behind Montoya and Alonso. One thing to note at this point in the season is that Kimi has experienced 2 mechanical failures prior to the race, and one during a race. On the other hand Alonso has had a completely reliable car without and retirements or grid position penalties.
Kimi: 51 : Alonso 77
Fictional Points: Kimi 71 : Alonso 83
[B]
Round 12: German Gran Prix[/B]
Once again Kimi�s luck shines through. After qualifying first and setting a sizeable gap on the field, Kimi once again had had to retire due to a hydraulic failure on lap 35. This gave Alonso the easy win.
Kimi 51 : Alonso 87
Fictional Points: Kimi 81 : Alonso 93
[B]Round 13 Hungarian Gran Prix[/B]
The Hungarian Gran Prix was another race dominated by Kimi! The closest finisher was Michael Schumacher, who was over 35 seconds behind. Alonso was particularly slow this weekend finishing a lap behind in 11th.
Kimi 61 : Alonso 87
Fictional Points: Kimi 91 : Alonso 93
[B]Round 14 Turkish Gran Prix[/B]
Yet another impressive performance by Raikkonen, who finished 18 seconds ahead of second place Fernando.
Kimi 71 : Alonso 95
Fictional Points: Kimi: 101 : Alonso: 101
[B]Round 15: Italian Gran Prix [/B]
After qualifying first, Raikkonen is forced to start the Italian Gran Prix from the 11th position due to a mechanical failure. Once again he climbed his way through the field and finished in 4th place. Alonso finished second to Montoya, who qualified in second.
Kimi 76 : Alonso 103
Fictional Points: Kimi 106 : Alonso 109
[B]Round 16: Belgium Gran Prix[/B]
Another textbook race weekend by Raikkonen. After qualifying 2nd, he built a 28.3 second gap between him and his closest rival Alonso by the end of the race.
Kimi 86 : Alonso 111
Fictional Points: Kimi 116 : Alonso 117
[B]Round 17: Brazil [/B]
The Brazilian Gran Prix resulted in a one-two victory for the Mclarens. After qualifying a disappointing 5th Kimi still managed to beat Alonso, who qualified first, by over 22 seconds!
Kimi 94 : Alonso 117
Fictional Points: Kimi: 124 : Alonso 123 (We have a first place change!)
[B]Round 18: Japan[/B]
The Japanese Gran Prix was probably one of the most exciting races of the year. It saw Kimi, who qualified DEAD LAST, overtake Giancarlo Fisichella on the final lap to take the win. Even though Alonso started from the back of the grid, one spot ahead of Kimi, he could only manage to finish 3rd, which was over 17 seconds behind Kimi.
Kimi: 104 : Alonso 123
Fictional Points: Kimi: 134 : Alonso 129
[B]Round 19: China [/B]
The final race of the season saw Renault issue many updates to their cars, which substantially improved their pace.
Kimi: 112 : Alonso 133
[B]Fictional Points: Kimi 142 : Alonso 139
And here we have the 2005 Formula One World Champion Kimi Raikkonen outscoring Alonso by three points![/B]
If you were counting you would note that Kimi had a total of 4 mechanical failures during practice/ qualifying, and 3 failures during the races themselves. Alonso on the other hand, had no grid penalties, or race retirements. Ahhh if only Mclaren could have built a reliable car!!!
I know this analysis is purely fictional, but it gives you an insight of what Kimi could have done if he had a reliable car during the season. Some may note that the difference only came out to be three points, but I only accounted for mechanical failures during the races, not during qualifying or practice. If I made further predictions on how Kimi would have done without any grid penalties, I am sure the gap would have been larger. The whole point of this analysis was to show how the championship would have panned out if each driver had equally reliable cars.
This is just my .02, so take it with a grain of salt. :)
[B]Round 1: Australia[/B]
Mclaren was very uncompetitive at the beginning of the season, and therefore Kimi only managed to score 1 point. On the other hand, the Renaults were fast right off the bat , which enabled Alonso to finish third behind his teammate Fisichella scoring 6 points.
Kimi 1 : Alonso: 6
[B]Round 2: Malaysia [/B]
Again the Renaults were very strong compared to the Mclarens. Alonso got his first of many wins of the 2005 season scoring 10 points, while Kimi finished out of the points.
Kimi 1 : Alonso 16
[B]Round 3: Bahrain[/B]
During the 3rd round the Mclarens are starting to look more competitive with Kimi finishing 3rd scoring 6 points. Alonso got his second win of the season scoring yet another 10 points.
Kimi 7 : Alonso 26
[B]Round 4 San Marino[/B]
This is where things really start to get interesting. The Mclarens are finally competitive, and Kimi gets his first pole. During the race Kimi sets himself apart from the field with a gap of 8+ seconds after only 9 laps. However just when the Mclarens are looking fast, Kimi�s bad luck sets in and he is forced to retire at lap 9 due to a driveshaft failure. Due to Kimis exceptional pace in the first 9 laps, I believe that he would have won this race, therefore I will add 10 �fictional� points to his score. If Kimi would have won, Alonso would have scored 8 points rather than the 10 he did.
Kimi 7 : Alonso 36
Fictional Points : Kimi 17 : Alonso 34
[B]Round 5: Spain[/B]
Halleluiah Kimi has won, and what a place to do it! After qualifying first, Kimi devastates the competition, beating second place Alonso by 27.6 seconds at his home Gran Prix!
Kimi 17 : Alonso 44
Fictional Points : Kimi 27 : Alonso 42
[B]Round 6: Monaco[/B]
Yet another great drive from Kimi, where he was dominant from Friday on. Kimi started first on the grid along side Alonso in second, and never looked back. He sailed to an easy victory beating Alonso, who finished 4th, by over 36 seconds!
Kimi 27 : Alonso 49
Fictional Points: Kimi 37 : Alonso 47
[B]Round 7: Europe (Nurburgring)[/B]
This is the infamous race where Kimi had a suspension failure on the very last lap after absolutely dominating the entire race. Even though it was unfortunate that Kimi had to retire on the very last lap, it was mainly his fault since he flat spotted the tire causing severe vibrations. Because the failure was mainly Kimi�s fault, I will not give him any points.
Kimi 27 : Alonso 59
Fictional Points : Kimi 37 : Alonso 57
[B]Round 8: Canada[/B]
Just like Kimi did last race, Alonso also suffered from brain fade and crashed into a wall forcing him to retire. Kimi ended up winning the race after qualifying 7th on the grid.
Kimi 37 : Alonso 59
Fictional Points: Kimi 47 : Alonso 57
[B]Round 9: United States Gran Prix[/B]
I don�t want to get into the whole fiasco that was the 05 US Gran Prix. However I would like to make the assumption that Kimi would have won the race based on his extraordinary speed that he showed in qualifying and practice. For this race, I will give Raikkonen the race win (10 points), and Alonso 2nd place. I consider giving Alonso 2nd place a gift considering his sub par 6th place grid position.
Kimi 37 : Alonso 59
Fictional Points: Kimi 57 : Alonso 65
[B]Round 10: French Gran Prix[/B]
Alonso drove an impressive race, winning the French Gran Prix. He qualified in first, and beat Kimi, who started 13th, by only 11.8 seconds. Since Kimi�s mechanical failure came during qualifying I will not add to his fictional points. On a side note, I believe Kimi would have won if he had started in 3rd rather than 13th, since he had set fastest lap, and was only 11 seconds behind.
Kimi: 45 : Alonso 69
Fictional Points: Kimi 65 : Alonso 75
[B]Round 11: British Gran Prix[/B]
Just like the French Gran Prix two weeks prior, Kimi has a mechanical failure during qualifying. This forces him to start from 12th on the grid after finishing behind Alonso who out qualified him by 27 thousandths of a second. Kimi ends up clawing his way through the grid finishing behind Montoya and Alonso. One thing to note at this point in the season is that Kimi has experienced 2 mechanical failures prior to the race, and one during a race. On the other hand Alonso has had a completely reliable car without and retirements or grid position penalties.
Kimi: 51 : Alonso 77
Fictional Points: Kimi 71 : Alonso 83
[B]
Round 12: German Gran Prix[/B]
Once again Kimi�s luck shines through. After qualifying first and setting a sizeable gap on the field, Kimi once again had had to retire due to a hydraulic failure on lap 35. This gave Alonso the easy win.
Kimi 51 : Alonso 87
Fictional Points: Kimi 81 : Alonso 93
[B]Round 13 Hungarian Gran Prix[/B]
The Hungarian Gran Prix was another race dominated by Kimi! The closest finisher was Michael Schumacher, who was over 35 seconds behind. Alonso was particularly slow this weekend finishing a lap behind in 11th.
Kimi 61 : Alonso 87
Fictional Points: Kimi 91 : Alonso 93
[B]Round 14 Turkish Gran Prix[/B]
Yet another impressive performance by Raikkonen, who finished 18 seconds ahead of second place Fernando.
Kimi 71 : Alonso 95
Fictional Points: Kimi: 101 : Alonso: 101
[B]Round 15: Italian Gran Prix [/B]
After qualifying first, Raikkonen is forced to start the Italian Gran Prix from the 11th position due to a mechanical failure. Once again he climbed his way through the field and finished in 4th place. Alonso finished second to Montoya, who qualified in second.
Kimi 76 : Alonso 103
Fictional Points: Kimi 106 : Alonso 109
[B]Round 16: Belgium Gran Prix[/B]
Another textbook race weekend by Raikkonen. After qualifying 2nd, he built a 28.3 second gap between him and his closest rival Alonso by the end of the race.
Kimi 86 : Alonso 111
Fictional Points: Kimi 116 : Alonso 117
[B]Round 17: Brazil [/B]
The Brazilian Gran Prix resulted in a one-two victory for the Mclarens. After qualifying a disappointing 5th Kimi still managed to beat Alonso, who qualified first, by over 22 seconds!
Kimi 94 : Alonso 117
Fictional Points: Kimi: 124 : Alonso 123 (We have a first place change!)
[B]Round 18: Japan[/B]
The Japanese Gran Prix was probably one of the most exciting races of the year. It saw Kimi, who qualified DEAD LAST, overtake Giancarlo Fisichella on the final lap to take the win. Even though Alonso started from the back of the grid, one spot ahead of Kimi, he could only manage to finish 3rd, which was over 17 seconds behind Kimi.
Kimi: 104 : Alonso 123
Fictional Points: Kimi: 134 : Alonso 129
[B]Round 19: China [/B]
The final race of the season saw Renault issue many updates to their cars, which substantially improved their pace.
Kimi: 112 : Alonso 133
[B]Fictional Points: Kimi 142 : Alonso 139
And here we have the 2005 Formula One World Champion Kimi Raikkonen outscoring Alonso by three points![/B]
If you were counting you would note that Kimi had a total of 4 mechanical failures during practice/ qualifying, and 3 failures during the races themselves. Alonso on the other hand, had no grid penalties, or race retirements. Ahhh if only Mclaren could have built a reliable car!!!
I know this analysis is purely fictional, but it gives you an insight of what Kimi could have done if he had a reliable car during the season. Some may note that the difference only came out to be three points, but I only accounted for mechanical failures during the races, not during qualifying or practice. If I made further predictions on how Kimi would have done without any grid penalties, I am sure the gap would have been larger. The whole point of this analysis was to show how the championship would have panned out if each driver had equally reliable cars.
This is just my .02, so take it with a grain of salt. :)
| jpsimon | 03-20-2006 03:06 AM |
agreed!
| bitterWRX | 03-20-2006 05:34 AM |
[QUOTE=nick735]
This is just my .02, so take it with a grain of salt. :)[/QUOTE]
The WDC is a packaged deal. You can't have one thing without another. So yeah... keywords are [b][i]IF ONLY[/i][/b].
:D
This is just my .02, so take it with a grain of salt. :)[/QUOTE]
The WDC is a packaged deal. You can't have one thing without another. So yeah... keywords are [b][i]IF ONLY[/i][/b].
:D
| Ferg | 03-20-2006 12:25 PM |
A good race, but certainly not a great one.
Alonso's start was the stuff of legends, followed by a controlled drive in a heavy car. Had he been on pole Fisi would have been left for dead.
Raikkonen got jacked. I really wanted to know what his fuel load was compared to JPM.
Was a one stopper on the cards?
Personally I'm glad there's a bit of a break before Australia.
Gives me a chance to enjoy the IRL's season opener without distraction.
:D
Alonso's start was the stuff of legends, followed by a controlled drive in a heavy car. Had he been on pole Fisi would have been left for dead.
Raikkonen got jacked. I really wanted to know what his fuel load was compared to JPM.
Was a one stopper on the cards?
Personally I'm glad there's a bit of a break before Australia.
Gives me a chance to enjoy the IRL's season opener without distraction.
:D
| KAX | 03-20-2006 12:36 PM |
i thought i read something about a new mclaren package for australia, any one got any info on that?
or will that have to wait for the round 3 thread?
or will that have to wait for the round 3 thread?
| Ferg | 03-20-2006 12:40 PM |
I haven't heard anything specifically about McLaren, but there's a big test this week (I [i]think [/i] it's at Barcelona...maybe it's Valencia again) so most of the tops teams will have new parts for Australia.
| KAX | 03-20-2006 12:46 PM |
from F1Racing.net
Test Schedule
24 Mar. Paul Ricard
23 Mar. Paul Ricard
22 Mar. Paul Ricard
so the answer is neither :p
i guess the testing thing makes sense. I just didnt read anything about it for other teams, but Haug mentioned in one of his interviews after Malaysia that the next package would be quicker.
Test Schedule
24 Mar. Paul Ricard
23 Mar. Paul Ricard
22 Mar. Paul Ricard
so the answer is neither :p
i guess the testing thing makes sense. I just didnt read anything about it for other teams, but Haug mentioned in one of his interviews after Malaysia that the next package would be quicker.
| Ferg | 03-20-2006 12:50 PM |
Sweet, I love Paul Richard...such a psychedelic looking track...
[IMG]http://www.pbase.com/image/50421353/original.jpg[/img]
[IMG]http://www.pbase.com/image/50421353/original.jpg[/img]
| KAX | 03-20-2006 12:52 PM |
yeh, i think they should make all the tracks with the blue stripping thing. that way spinning off without damage wont end your race.
| Bonzo | 03-20-2006 01:04 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]yeh, i think they should make all the tracks with the blue stripping thing. that way spinning off without damage wont end your race.[/QUOTE]
Tracks one by one are paving the run-off areas.
This cannot happen soon enough.
Tracks one by one are paving the run-off areas.
This cannot happen soon enough.
| artkevin | 03-20-2006 01:35 PM |
Damn nick375. Thats good research and thought.
I have no doubt that if McLaren good have a pakagee that didn't go bom Kimi could have won the WDC. I really do like what Freddy said at the end of the year that a race is not 30 laps long.
I have no doubt that if McLaren good have a pakagee that didn't go bom Kimi could have won the WDC. I really do like what Freddy said at the end of the year that a race is not 30 laps long.
| nick735 | 03-20-2006 02:14 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]Damn nick375. Thats good research and thought.
I have no doubt that if McLaren good have a pakagee that didn't go bom Kimi could have won the WDC. I really do like what Freddy said at the end of the year that a race is not 30 laps long.[/QUOTE]
Thanks kevin! I'll be the first to admit that it is heavily biased, but someone got me really fired up at the time. :lol:
I have no doubt that if McLaren good have a pakagee that didn't go bom Kimi could have won the WDC. I really do like what Freddy said at the end of the year that a race is not 30 laps long.[/QUOTE]
Thanks kevin! I'll be the first to admit that it is heavily biased, but someone got me really fired up at the time. :lol:
| KAX | 03-20-2006 02:33 PM |
[QUOTE=nick735]Thanks kevin! I'll be the first to admit that it is heavily biased, but someone got me really fired up at the time. :lol:[/QUOTE]
didnt really need to be biased, its the truth. had you counted grid penalties, you could have given him wins, so 2 more points per race for kimi.
i think thats the reason more people prefer kimi to alonso, as you can see, had it not been for the car, kimi would have won, making him the better driver. thats still, obviously, opinionated, but thats where the general fan base comes from.
didnt really need to be biased, its the truth. had you counted grid penalties, you could have given him wins, so 2 more points per race for kimi.
i think thats the reason more people prefer kimi to alonso, as you can see, had it not been for the car, kimi would have won, making him the better driver. thats still, obviously, opinionated, but thats where the general fan base comes from.
| Ferg | 03-20-2006 02:49 PM |
Ultimately these debates are pointless... :o
Should Raikkonen have won the title in 2003?
One race win against Michael's six...but Kimi had more podiums (10 for KR, 8 for MS). Ralf even had more wins than Raikkonen that season yet Kimi was in the hunt for the title right to the end (93 MS, 91 KR) thanks to the points system and consistant finishes.
Should Raikkonen have won the title in 2003?
One race win against Michael's six...but Kimi had more podiums (10 for KR, 8 for MS). Ralf even had more wins than Raikkonen that season yet Kimi was in the hunt for the title right to the end (93 MS, 91 KR) thanks to the points system and consistant finishes.
| artkevin | 03-20-2006 02:56 PM |
The problem with saying that Kimi is the better driver becuase of the car and its faults is that it does not take into account that Frenando did not need to show the pace of the R25 to win (or get major points) most of the time. China showed that the car had more pace then he showed most of the year. Kimi did a fantastic job and there were several races the Fernando had no chance of winning, Monaco and Japan come to mind, becuase Kimi had the bit between his teeth and Frenado was not there. And in the case of Monaco the car setup was trash shown by the rears on his and Fisi' but somehow he still managed to come in 4th.
| nick735 | 03-20-2006 03:08 PM |
One other thing to take into account is the total lack of competition amongst teams during the 2005 season. For the most part it was only the mclarens and renaults who were fast. Therefore, whenever raikkonen would suffer from a mechanical failure Alonso would have the race basically to himself. If there were other drivers who were competitive, such as schumi or button, they would have made it much more difficult for alonso to get the easy win.
Basically when Raikkonen was out, it was free sailing for alonso to get an easy 10 points.
Basically when Raikkonen was out, it was free sailing for alonso to get an easy 10 points.
| thebear | 03-20-2006 03:18 PM |
F1, Ready for the next round!
�
�
Like many of you I was more than ready for the F1 season to start, however I think (and hope) that Michael will recover, and add another championship - never did like French cars! My pick for the future - Rosberg, and if only Kimi could have the tinyest bit of good luck!
| Ferg | 03-20-2006 04:21 PM |
Honestly I don't care who wins the title or not, or whether or not they deserved it...it's just a statistic.
For me it's [i]always[/i] been about who's fastest (which really breaks down to who gets the most from what they have...) on the day.
The real tragedy is the fact that we haven't seen Raikkonen and Alonso in constant wheel to wheel battles...
The two fastest guys in F1 and they never seem to be anywhere near each other on the track!
Ever!
I feel cheated.
:mad:
For me it's [i]always[/i] been about who's fastest (which really breaks down to who gets the most from what they have...) on the day.
The real tragedy is the fact that we haven't seen Raikkonen and Alonso in constant wheel to wheel battles...
The two fastest guys in F1 and they never seem to be anywhere near each other on the track!
Ever!
I feel cheated.
:mad:
| KAX | 03-20-2006 04:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg]The real tragedy is the fact that we haven't seen Raikkonen and Alonso in constant wheel to wheel battles...
The two fastest guys in F1 and they never seem to be anywhere near each other on the track!
Ever![/QUOTE]
theyve never needed to batte. alonso coasted to the championship last year, so if Kimi was ever around him, Alonso didnt bother fighting hard. Japan was the only chance they had to fight it out, but IIRC they passed each other on pit strategy.
The two fastest guys in F1 and they never seem to be anywhere near each other on the track!
Ever![/QUOTE]
theyve never needed to batte. alonso coasted to the championship last year, so if Kimi was ever around him, Alonso didnt bother fighting hard. Japan was the only chance they had to fight it out, but IIRC they passed each other on pit strategy.
| artkevin | 03-20-2006 05:32 PM |
The worst thing to me was the poles that I saw on I-Tv and other F1 sites asking if Alonso deserved the WDC. The majority of the people said that he didn't. Thats just insane to me. Its not like his car was 200 bhp up on every other car or that he cheated. He was simply the fastest most consistent driver over the course of the saeson. All the teams and drivers got the same rule book, points system and basic knowledge of what would be asked of them in 2005. Renualt as a team and Fernando as a driver simply did the best just as Ferrari has done for the previous 5. The fact that the questions was even asked of a level playing field showed me that a lot of people can't be happy as long as its not their driver on the top step.
| REX8 | 03-20-2006 05:50 PM |
[QUOTE=nick735]
Basically when Raikkonen was out, it was free sailing for alonso to get an easy 10 points.[/QUOTE]
Not really, in the 2nd half of the season (oh boy here we go....!) JPM had just as many wins (3) as Alonso. So much for your theory! :lol:
Basically when Raikkonen was out, it was free sailing for alonso to get an easy 10 points.[/QUOTE]
Not really, in the 2nd half of the season (oh boy here we go....!) JPM had just as many wins (3) as Alonso. So much for your theory! :lol:
| TimStevens | 03-20-2006 05:58 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]The worst thing to me was the poles that I saw on I-Tv and other F1 sites asking if Alonso deserved the WDC. The majority of the people said that he didn't. Thats just insane to me. Its not like his car was 200 bhp up on every other car or that he cheated. He was simply the fastest most consistent driver over the course of the saeson. All the teams and drivers got the same rule book, points system and basic knowledge of what would be asked of them in 2005. Renualt as a team and Fernando as a driver simply did the best just as Ferrari has done for the previous 5. The fact that the questions was even asked of a level playing field showed me that a lot of people can't be happy as long as its not their driver on the top step.[/QUOTE]
When was the last time we had a genuinely likeable WDC? Mika, or did people even like him? (I did.) Prost and Senna both had their haters... Mansell? Ever...?
When was the last time we had a genuinely likeable WDC? Mika, or did people even like him? (I did.) Prost and Senna both had their haters... Mansell? Ever...?
| REX8 | 03-20-2006 06:00 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens]When was the last time we had a genuinely likeable WDC? Mika, or did people even like him? (I did.) Prost and Senna both had their haters... Mansell? Ever...?[/QUOTE]
oh come on...you're saying JV is not a likeable kinda guy??? ;)
oh come on...you're saying JV is not a likeable kinda guy??? ;)
| Ferg | 03-20-2006 06:37 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]theyve never needed to batte. alonso coasted to the championship last year, so if Kimi was ever around him, Alonso didnt bother fighting hard. Japan was the only chance they had to fight it out, but IIRC they passed each other on pit strategy.[/QUOTE]
He coasted? :rolleyes:
I must have watched a different series last year because I certainly didn't see Alonso "coasting" to his title.
Had the positions been reversed last year and it was Raikkonen protecting a points gap while Alonso was forced to drive flatout every race...the argument would be [i]exactly[/i] the same, only the names would change.
Did Alonso put in conservative performances when it was prudent to do so? You bet he did, every champion (past present and future) knows that's how you win a title. Do some reading up on your recent F1 history, Kimi did the exact same thing in 2003. He didn't have the fastest car but he came oh so close to nabbing the title from Schumacher by doing precisely what FA did last year. Win when you can (which was only once) and when you can't , finish on the podium (which was on nine other occasions).
I guess that's "coasting" eh?
I've only ever seen two drivers truly "coast" through a season...Mansell in 1992 (FW14B was miles ahead of everybody...so much so that Patrese finished ahead of Senna in the points standings!) and Schumacher in 2004 after he had the title sewn up in France.
He coasted? :rolleyes:
I must have watched a different series last year because I certainly didn't see Alonso "coasting" to his title.
Had the positions been reversed last year and it was Raikkonen protecting a points gap while Alonso was forced to drive flatout every race...the argument would be [i]exactly[/i] the same, only the names would change.
Did Alonso put in conservative performances when it was prudent to do so? You bet he did, every champion (past present and future) knows that's how you win a title. Do some reading up on your recent F1 history, Kimi did the exact same thing in 2003. He didn't have the fastest car but he came oh so close to nabbing the title from Schumacher by doing precisely what FA did last year. Win when you can (which was only once) and when you can't , finish on the podium (which was on nine other occasions).
I guess that's "coasting" eh?
I've only ever seen two drivers truly "coast" through a season...Mansell in 1992 (FW14B was miles ahead of everybody...so much so that Patrese finished ahead of Senna in the points standings!) and Schumacher in 2004 after he had the title sewn up in France.
| artkevin | 03-20-2006 06:54 PM |
JPM was in the exact same shoes as Kimi in 03 up until the USGP and Monza. IMHO he got screwed by the stewarts in the US and HHF in Itlay.
I think Alonso is a likeable guy. I don't see why he wouldn't be. Well spoken, emotional when he should be, amazing to watch behind the wheel and good looking (minus the catapiller eyebrows).
He has bitched a little too often but one needs to remember that hes in the lead or pushing towards it when you hear the team radio so he is going to be pumped up. We also don't get to hear Ferrari's or McLaren's so we don't know how much the other guys at the sharp end bitch while in the car.
I think Alonso is a likeable guy. I don't see why he wouldn't be. Well spoken, emotional when he should be, amazing to watch behind the wheel and good looking (minus the catapiller eyebrows).
He has bitched a little too often but one needs to remember that hes in the lead or pushing towards it when you hear the team radio so he is going to be pumped up. We also don't get to hear Ferrari's or McLaren's so we don't know how much the other guys at the sharp end bitch while in the car.
| bitterWRX | 03-20-2006 07:12 PM |
All I have to say is that it's going to be an interesting to see Alonso with McLaren in 07. Good or bad, it's going to be VERYY interesting to see the drivers shift around.
| artkevin | 03-20-2006 07:24 PM |
Good point, the drivers market will be even more FUBARed in 07 then this year.
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