| TimStevens | 03-02-2005 11:45 AM |
Let's talk Melbourne
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Still no proper thread for this weekend's race!? This forum is slipping. Predictions, etc?
How about this late-breaking news tidbit:
[url]http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15441/[/url]
By the current looks of things, Ferrari will bar Minardi from competing in this weekend's GP.
How about this late-breaking news tidbit:
[url]http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15441/[/url]
By the current looks of things, Ferrari will bar Minardi from competing in this weekend's GP.
| boxered | 03-02-2005 12:01 PM |
Prediction: same ole MS-perfectly-executed-pitstop-extravaganza-for-the-easy-win.
No Minardi? There might be a manufacturer's point up for grabs! :lol:
No Minardi? There might be a manufacturer's point up for grabs! :lol:
| asquaredrex | 03-02-2005 12:05 PM |
[QUOTE=boxered]Prediction: same ole MS-perfectly-executed-pitstop-extravaganza-for-the-easy-win.
[/QUOTE]
Do most people think Ferrari was sandbagging during winter testing? They didn't seem to be going all that fast with the adapted 2k4 car...
[/QUOTE]
Do most people think Ferrari was sandbagging during winter testing? They didn't seem to be going all that fast with the adapted 2k4 car...
| TimStevens | 03-02-2005 12:09 PM |
Definitely sandbagging. I think MS is the sandbagging master.
| johnfelstead | 03-02-2005 12:19 PM |
the honest answer is i dont know what will happen, and neither does anyone else. :D
It's all about the tyres and how they will perform in hotter climates than winter testing. The cars themsleves will matter less in terms of Ferrari V the rest.
What i do expect to see is a dominant performance by one of the tyre manufacturers, if Michellin have it right we will see a race, if Bridgestone have it right it will be a borefest unless the TV director ignores Ferrari and looks at the race for 3rd.
It's all about the tyres and how they will perform in hotter climates than winter testing. The cars themsleves will matter less in terms of Ferrari V the rest.
What i do expect to see is a dominant performance by one of the tyre manufacturers, if Michellin have it right we will see a race, if Bridgestone have it right it will be a borefest unless the TV director ignores Ferrari and looks at the race for 3rd.
| bouse1 | 03-02-2005 01:15 PM |
If Minardi doesn't race this weekend, then niether will anybody else (except cry baby Ferrari)
Paul Stoddart claims that he has an agreement with the 8 other teams, which support Minardi running 04 spec cars, that they will boycott the event if Ferrari doesn't agree.
Man, that makes me so sick. It's not enough that Ferrari is world champion, Jean Todt also feels that they need to pick on the poorest team in F1, who are doing all they can to stay in the sport. Ferrari claims that it is an FIA matter, but in fact, if all teams agree, then it's race on.
I hope Ferrari's rein ends this season. GO MONTOYA!!!!!!!111
Paul Stoddart claims that he has an agreement with the 8 other teams, which support Minardi running 04 spec cars, that they will boycott the event if Ferrari doesn't agree.
Man, that makes me so sick. It's not enough that Ferrari is world champion, Jean Todt also feels that they need to pick on the poorest team in F1, who are doing all they can to stay in the sport. Ferrari claims that it is an FIA matter, but in fact, if all teams agree, then it's race on.
I hope Ferrari's rein ends this season. GO MONTOYA!!!!!!!111
| TimStevens | 03-02-2005 01:16 PM |
Minardi will race, I'll be very surprised if that doesn't happen, but it seems like there'll be a helluva lot of BS flying around before they do.
| Bonzo | 03-02-2005 01:19 PM |
MS goes just as fast as he needs.
Melbourne is a cool track. I might have to jump in a car tonite and do some drivin.
Remember all of you stateside peeps. Thursday night is televised practice, iirc 9pm est. :banana:
Melbourne is a cool track. I might have to jump in a car tonite and do some drivin.
Remember all of you stateside peeps. Thursday night is televised practice, iirc 9pm est. :banana:
| ArtGecko | 03-02-2005 02:01 PM |
Here's everyone's picks.
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724713[/url]
I started the thread just to remind people to sign up for Pick 6, but it turned into an AU prediction thread. I changed the title, but that only changes the title of the first post.
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724713[/url]
I started the thread just to remind people to sign up for Pick 6, but it turned into an AU prediction thread. I changed the title, but that only changes the title of the first post.
| PaulC | 03-02-2005 02:22 PM |
I'm hoping pit strategy doesn't dictate the results. I think that since they have to run the same tires you will see greater speed differentials between drivers who are still out on low fuel and drivers who are full up from a pit stop, since drivers won't have a fresh tire advantage out of the pits.
I agree with johnfelstead that it's going to come down to which tyre (that's for you john) manufacturer has the better product, at least for the first couple of races.
I'm crossing my fingers for some off-line passing and an interesting grid lineup.
I agree with johnfelstead that it's going to come down to which tyre (that's for you john) manufacturer has the better product, at least for the first couple of races.
I'm crossing my fingers for some off-line passing and an interesting grid lineup.
| artkevin | 03-02-2005 02:34 PM |
Hey, in this country we spell tire with an "I"!
I agree with John too. Tires will win the race.
Ferrari is sandbagging, as always. I don't think they ever show their true pace in public tests. They wait to hit you between the eyes in Melbourne every year.
This Minardi thing is shapping up strangely right now. I know Stoddart has a lot of support from the other teams since he is the most outspoken one but I doubt the other 8 will boycott the race. Think of how much money they spent to lug all of their stuff from Europe.
I agree with John too. Tires will win the race.
Ferrari is sandbagging, as always. I don't think they ever show their true pace in public tests. They wait to hit you between the eyes in Melbourne every year.
This Minardi thing is shapping up strangely right now. I know Stoddart has a lot of support from the other teams since he is the most outspoken one but I doubt the other 8 will boycott the race. Think of how much money they spent to lug all of their stuff from Europe.
| TimStevens | 03-02-2005 02:49 PM |
Unless I'm mistaken, it's up to the race organizers to pay for the transport of cars & gear to "away" races. That's how it is for the American events, anyhow.
| gtguy | 03-02-2005 02:56 PM |
Frank Williams seemed to think that although Ferrari were, fastest lap for fastest lap a bit behind the other teams, when you did the math on long runs, they were right up there with the other teams, pace-wise.
There will be so much learning this year, and the smoothest, most adaptive drivers will do well. I wouldn't be putting much dosh on the "grab it by the neck and wring it out" types, who are hard on tires. And if Schumacher doesn't adapt his driving style, he'll have fried rubber with a third of the race left, like the other folks, watching the technicians such as Button, Barrichello and Coulthard drive away.
It's all going to be fascinating, even IF Ferrari does what they did last year, just to figure out what the FIA is going to try next to slow them down. :lol:
Kevin
There will be so much learning this year, and the smoothest, most adaptive drivers will do well. I wouldn't be putting much dosh on the "grab it by the neck and wring it out" types, who are hard on tires. And if Schumacher doesn't adapt his driving style, he'll have fried rubber with a third of the race left, like the other folks, watching the technicians such as Button, Barrichello and Coulthard drive away.
It's all going to be fascinating, even IF Ferrari does what they did last year, just to figure out what the FIA is going to try next to slow them down. :lol:
Kevin
| Dr. WOT | 03-03-2005 02:45 PM |
Weather forcast is for cooler temps than last year.
| Italiano | 03-03-2005 04:00 PM |
Minardi .................
�
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Looks like Red Bull is also blocking Minardi
[url]http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15465/[/url]
[url]http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15465/[/url]
| driggity | 03-03-2005 04:50 PM |
[QUOTE=Italiano]Looks like Red Bull is also blocking Minardi
[url]http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15465/[/url][/QUOTE]
According to PlanetF1.com Red Bull is now backing down from that. Oh the silliness. At least the racing starts soon.
[url]http://www.planetf1.com/news/story_18745.shtml[/url]
[url]http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/15465/[/url][/QUOTE]
According to PlanetF1.com Red Bull is now backing down from that. Oh the silliness. At least the racing starts soon.
[url]http://www.planetf1.com/news/story_18745.shtml[/url]
| Dussander | 03-03-2005 05:40 PM |
How did you get through that article with that "Download Nuts Babes to your Mobile!" ad staring you in the face?
:)
:)
| Dussander | 03-03-2005 05:40 PM |
First practice starts (not on speed) in 1:20 minutes (I think) or 6:00PM Central.
| Ferg | 03-03-2005 08:45 PM |
Actually Speed airs the second Friday Free Practice...the frist session is now in the record books....
[QUOTE]Friday First Free Practice - Australian GP
Friday March 4th, 2005
By Will Gray
Vitantonio Liuzzi gave his new Red Bull Racing team a debut delight as he topped the times in Friday�s opening practice session for this weekend�s Australian Grand Prix as Formula One kicked back into action in Albert Park.
The new two-race engine rules forced teams to opt for limited running and with many drivers choosing to preserve their powerplants rather than running up too many practice laps only 18 of the 24 cars set a time.
In warm, but not hot, conditions with cloudy skies and temperatures of 20 degrees Liuzzi, who had been hoping for a race drive with Red Bull, made his mark with a time of 1:25.967.
Pedro de la Rosa finished second for McLaren with a time 0.513 seconds slower than Liuzzi with Toyota test driver Ricardo Zonta third but a massive 1.298 seconds off the pace.
The top three drivers completed 19, 19 and 20 laps respectively but McLaren driver Juan Pablo Montoya set the fourth fastest time after just five laps of running with his new team.
Scot David Coulthard, the man Montoya replaced at McLaren, finished fifth fastest in the second Red Bull Racing machine while Felipe Massa claimed sixth fastest time for Sauber.
Home hero Mark Webber, who drove over Sydney Harbour Bridge last weekend, finished seventh fastest on his debut for Williams but he was 2.302 seconds off the pace of the lead driver.
Italian Jarno Trulli claimed eighth place for Toyota with Briton Jenson Button ninth for BAR-Honda and Christian Klien ensuring all three Red Bull machines finished in the top ten.
Liuzzi was the first man to set a competitive time when he drove his Red Bull Racing machine around the Albert Park circuit in 1:30.512 in the opening 15 minutes.
McLaren, who won the right to run a third car on the Friday of each Grand Prix weekend by finishing fifth last season, then saw de la Rosa better Liuzzi by more than a second to go to the top of the times.
The new rules had an effect on running and at the half-way point Jordan trio Robert Doornbos, Narain Karthikeyan and Tiago Montiero were the only other three drivers who had been out on track.
De la Rosa then upped the mark again before Webber came out to a cheer from the crowd as made his competitive debut for Williams to begin his first Australian Grand Prix in a front-running car.
Karthikeyan looked as though he suffered an engine problem 35 mins into the session when smoke was seen from the rear of his Jordan and he was forced to remain in the pits for the rest of the session.
More cars began to venture out as the session moved towards a close but it was clear the full picture of who will be early-season favourites would not be seen until teams risked more running later in the weekend.
Ferrari finished 12th fastest with Rubens Barrichello but world champion Michael Schumacher failed to set a competitive lap time as he chose to preserve his engine for the rest of the weekend.
McLaren driver Kimi Raikkonen and Renault pair Fernando Alonso and Giancarlo Fisichella also failed to set a time while Minardi were unable to run after failing to receive permission to use their 2004-spec cars.
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Liuzzi Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:25.967 19
2. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:26.480 + 0.513 19
3. Zonta Toyota (M) 1:27.265 + 1.298 20
4. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:27.425 + 1.458 5
5. Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.573 + 1.606 9
6. Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:27.971 + 2.004 5
7. Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:28.269 + 2.302 10
8. Trulli Toyota (M) 1:28.366 + 2.399 10
9. Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:28.632 + 2.665 10
10. Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:28.834 + 2.867 9
11. Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:29.172 + 3.205 9
12. Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:29.227 + 3.260 5
13. R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:29.285 + 3.318 12
14. Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:29.332 + 3.365 7
15. Doornbos Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:29.370 + 3.403 23
16. Sato BAR-Honda (M) 1:31.364 + 5.397 9
17. Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:32.348 + 6.381 15
18. Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:38.175 + 12.208 6
19. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) No Time 1
20. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) No Time 3
21. Fisichella Renault (M) No Time 2
22. Alonso Renault (M) No Time 2
23. Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time 0
24. Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time 0
All timing unofficial[/QUOTE]
Looks like driggity's drunken prediction of a Red Bull 1-2 may not be far off.
[QUOTE]Friday First Free Practice - Australian GP
Friday March 4th, 2005
By Will Gray
Vitantonio Liuzzi gave his new Red Bull Racing team a debut delight as he topped the times in Friday�s opening practice session for this weekend�s Australian Grand Prix as Formula One kicked back into action in Albert Park.
The new two-race engine rules forced teams to opt for limited running and with many drivers choosing to preserve their powerplants rather than running up too many practice laps only 18 of the 24 cars set a time.
In warm, but not hot, conditions with cloudy skies and temperatures of 20 degrees Liuzzi, who had been hoping for a race drive with Red Bull, made his mark with a time of 1:25.967.
Pedro de la Rosa finished second for McLaren with a time 0.513 seconds slower than Liuzzi with Toyota test driver Ricardo Zonta third but a massive 1.298 seconds off the pace.
The top three drivers completed 19, 19 and 20 laps respectively but McLaren driver Juan Pablo Montoya set the fourth fastest time after just five laps of running with his new team.
Scot David Coulthard, the man Montoya replaced at McLaren, finished fifth fastest in the second Red Bull Racing machine while Felipe Massa claimed sixth fastest time for Sauber.
Home hero Mark Webber, who drove over Sydney Harbour Bridge last weekend, finished seventh fastest on his debut for Williams but he was 2.302 seconds off the pace of the lead driver.
Italian Jarno Trulli claimed eighth place for Toyota with Briton Jenson Button ninth for BAR-Honda and Christian Klien ensuring all three Red Bull machines finished in the top ten.
Liuzzi was the first man to set a competitive time when he drove his Red Bull Racing machine around the Albert Park circuit in 1:30.512 in the opening 15 minutes.
McLaren, who won the right to run a third car on the Friday of each Grand Prix weekend by finishing fifth last season, then saw de la Rosa better Liuzzi by more than a second to go to the top of the times.
The new rules had an effect on running and at the half-way point Jordan trio Robert Doornbos, Narain Karthikeyan and Tiago Montiero were the only other three drivers who had been out on track.
De la Rosa then upped the mark again before Webber came out to a cheer from the crowd as made his competitive debut for Williams to begin his first Australian Grand Prix in a front-running car.
Karthikeyan looked as though he suffered an engine problem 35 mins into the session when smoke was seen from the rear of his Jordan and he was forced to remain in the pits for the rest of the session.
More cars began to venture out as the session moved towards a close but it was clear the full picture of who will be early-season favourites would not be seen until teams risked more running later in the weekend.
Ferrari finished 12th fastest with Rubens Barrichello but world champion Michael Schumacher failed to set a competitive lap time as he chose to preserve his engine for the rest of the weekend.
McLaren driver Kimi Raikkonen and Renault pair Fernando Alonso and Giancarlo Fisichella also failed to set a time while Minardi were unable to run after failing to receive permission to use their 2004-spec cars.
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Liuzzi Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:25.967 19
2. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:26.480 + 0.513 19
3. Zonta Toyota (M) 1:27.265 + 1.298 20
4. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:27.425 + 1.458 5
5. Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.573 + 1.606 9
6. Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:27.971 + 2.004 5
7. Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:28.269 + 2.302 10
8. Trulli Toyota (M) 1:28.366 + 2.399 10
9. Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:28.632 + 2.665 10
10. Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:28.834 + 2.867 9
11. Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:29.172 + 3.205 9
12. Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:29.227 + 3.260 5
13. R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:29.285 + 3.318 12
14. Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:29.332 + 3.365 7
15. Doornbos Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:29.370 + 3.403 23
16. Sato BAR-Honda (M) 1:31.364 + 5.397 9
17. Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:32.348 + 6.381 15
18. Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:38.175 + 12.208 6
19. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) No Time 1
20. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) No Time 3
21. Fisichella Renault (M) No Time 2
22. Alonso Renault (M) No Time 2
23. Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time 0
24. Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time 0
All timing unofficial[/QUOTE]
Looks like driggity's drunken prediction of a Red Bull 1-2 may not be far off.
| Dussander | 03-03-2005 08:58 PM |
Yeah, that's why it says "NOT on speed."
| Ferg | 03-03-2005 09:01 PM |
Duh, my mistake..in my excitement I simply read your post too quickly. :)
| WRSport | 03-03-2005 10:38 PM |
Sigh.....so nice to see the cars running again!!!!
Wow, Matchet just said an engineer at BMW told him they lost 30% of their downforce with the 05 rule changes but contiuned develpment has gotten back all 30% loss.
Incredible.
Wow, Matchet just said an engineer at BMW told him they lost 30% of their downforce with the 05 rule changes but contiuned develpment has gotten back all 30% loss.
Incredible.
| WRSport | 03-03-2005 10:39 PM |
Bernie, please bring the mulit-feed pay per view HD F1 coverage to the US.
| Ferg | 03-03-2005 11:15 PM |
[QUOTE]Friday Second Free Practice - Australian GP
Friday March 4th, 2005
By Will Gray
McLaren took first blood in the build-up to Sunday�s Australian Grand Prix when test driver Pedro de la Rosa set the fastest time of the day as he topped Friday�s second practice session at Albert Park.
De la Rosa, who finished second behind Red Bull driver Vitantonio Liuzzi in the first session, set a time of 1:25.376 to finish three tenths of a second ahead of team-mate Kimi Raikkonen.
McLaren have been tipped as favourites to take victory in Melbourne this weekend as world champions Ferrari struggle with their modified F2004M car before introducing their all-new model later in the year.
With Juan Pablo Montoya fifth fastest the Woking-based team look set to put in a strong challenge for victory but they will have to contend with a few regular rivals if Friday�s running is a prediction of what is to come.
World champion Michael Schumacher looked down and out after opting to conserve his engine life failing to set a time in the opening session then struggling to perform in his opening laps in the afternoon run.
But he was soon back to his familiar form and finished fourth fastest and was 0.705 seconds off the pace although he was, for once, not the fastest German as compatriot Nick Heidfeld claimed third in the lead Williams.
Brazilian Felipe Massa finished sixth fastest for Sauber with Spain�s Fernando Alonso seventh in the lead Renault after opting, like Schumacher, to conserve engine life and not set a time in the morning session.
Briton Jenson Button finished eighth in the lead BAR-Honda with Rubens Barrichello ninth in the second Ferrari and Italian Giancarlo Fisichella rounding out the top ten in the second Renault.
Teams limited their running in the first session to reduce engine wear for the weekend but they were not so cautious in the second and with 20 minutes gone all but the two Minardi cars had set a competitive lap time.
De la Rosa led the way again early on but the times were significantly slower than in the morning with temperatures rising to 22 degrees Celsius.
With 30 minutes gone Raikkonen was on top of the pile with a time of 1:26.311, around four tenths slower than Liuzzi�s session-leading time of 1:25.967 from the morning running.
His new team-mate Montoya, who joined from Williams at the end of last year, soon offered a taste of things to come, however, when he pipped the Finn by just 0.084 seconds to take the top spot away just seconds later.
Fisichella sat in third spot for Renault with David Coulthard fourth for Red Bull while world champion Schumacher sat in a distant 18th spot after completing just six laps.
Robert Doornbos, the Dutch Jordan test driver, had an early spin and Liuzzi, who topped the morning session, also made a mistake and lost control at turn three but was able to recover.
Barrichello spun his Ferrari at turn nine and Fisichella lost control of his Renault at turn 10 while Christian Kilen, of Red Bull, and Jordan�s Tiago Montiero both looked ragged as they dropped two wheels onto the grass.
Once again Patrick Freisacher, of Austria, and Dutchman Christijan Albers were forced to wait for their debuts as Ferrari continued to block their Minardi team�s request to run cars with aerodynamics that do not comply to 2005 rules.
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:25.376 28
2. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:25.676 + 0.300 15
3. Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:25.940 + 0.564 23
4. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:26.081 + 0.705 15
5. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:26.227 + 0.851 14
6. Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:26.357 + 0.981 19
7. Alonso Renault (M) 1:26.562 + 1.186 21
8. Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:26.611 + 1.235 26
9. Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:26.639 + 1.263 14
10. Fisichella Renault (M) 1:26.667 + 1.291 23
11. Zonta Toyota (M) 1:26.808 + 1.432 31
12. Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.017 + 1.641 22
13. R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:27.162 + 1.786 16
14. Trulli Toyota (M) 1:27.195 + 1.819 24
15. Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:27.329 + 1.953 19
16. Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:27.513 + 2.137 18
17. Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.544 + 2.168 14
18. Sato BAR-Honda (M) 1:27.891 + 2.515 20
19. Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:28.168 + 2.792 29
20. Doornbos Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:28.620 + 3.244 30
21. Liuzzi Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:28.926 + 3.550 7
22. Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:29.671 + 4.295 23
23. Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time
24. Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time
All timing unofficial[/QUOTE]
As already stated, it's great to see the cars running in anger again. :D
Friday March 4th, 2005
By Will Gray
McLaren took first blood in the build-up to Sunday�s Australian Grand Prix when test driver Pedro de la Rosa set the fastest time of the day as he topped Friday�s second practice session at Albert Park.
De la Rosa, who finished second behind Red Bull driver Vitantonio Liuzzi in the first session, set a time of 1:25.376 to finish three tenths of a second ahead of team-mate Kimi Raikkonen.
McLaren have been tipped as favourites to take victory in Melbourne this weekend as world champions Ferrari struggle with their modified F2004M car before introducing their all-new model later in the year.
With Juan Pablo Montoya fifth fastest the Woking-based team look set to put in a strong challenge for victory but they will have to contend with a few regular rivals if Friday�s running is a prediction of what is to come.
World champion Michael Schumacher looked down and out after opting to conserve his engine life failing to set a time in the opening session then struggling to perform in his opening laps in the afternoon run.
But he was soon back to his familiar form and finished fourth fastest and was 0.705 seconds off the pace although he was, for once, not the fastest German as compatriot Nick Heidfeld claimed third in the lead Williams.
Brazilian Felipe Massa finished sixth fastest for Sauber with Spain�s Fernando Alonso seventh in the lead Renault after opting, like Schumacher, to conserve engine life and not set a time in the morning session.
Briton Jenson Button finished eighth in the lead BAR-Honda with Rubens Barrichello ninth in the second Ferrari and Italian Giancarlo Fisichella rounding out the top ten in the second Renault.
Teams limited their running in the first session to reduce engine wear for the weekend but they were not so cautious in the second and with 20 minutes gone all but the two Minardi cars had set a competitive lap time.
De la Rosa led the way again early on but the times were significantly slower than in the morning with temperatures rising to 22 degrees Celsius.
With 30 minutes gone Raikkonen was on top of the pile with a time of 1:26.311, around four tenths slower than Liuzzi�s session-leading time of 1:25.967 from the morning running.
His new team-mate Montoya, who joined from Williams at the end of last year, soon offered a taste of things to come, however, when he pipped the Finn by just 0.084 seconds to take the top spot away just seconds later.
Fisichella sat in third spot for Renault with David Coulthard fourth for Red Bull while world champion Schumacher sat in a distant 18th spot after completing just six laps.
Robert Doornbos, the Dutch Jordan test driver, had an early spin and Liuzzi, who topped the morning session, also made a mistake and lost control at turn three but was able to recover.
Barrichello spun his Ferrari at turn nine and Fisichella lost control of his Renault at turn 10 while Christian Kilen, of Red Bull, and Jordan�s Tiago Montiero both looked ragged as they dropped two wheels onto the grass.
Once again Patrick Freisacher, of Austria, and Dutchman Christijan Albers were forced to wait for their debuts as Ferrari continued to block their Minardi team�s request to run cars with aerodynamics that do not comply to 2005 rules.
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:25.376 28
2. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:25.676 + 0.300 15
3. Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:25.940 + 0.564 23
4. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:26.081 + 0.705 15
5. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:26.227 + 0.851 14
6. Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:26.357 + 0.981 19
7. Alonso Renault (M) 1:26.562 + 1.186 21
8. Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:26.611 + 1.235 26
9. Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:26.639 + 1.263 14
10. Fisichella Renault (M) 1:26.667 + 1.291 23
11. Zonta Toyota (M) 1:26.808 + 1.432 31
12. Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.017 + 1.641 22
13. R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:27.162 + 1.786 16
14. Trulli Toyota (M) 1:27.195 + 1.819 24
15. Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:27.329 + 1.953 19
16. Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:27.513 + 2.137 18
17. Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:27.544 + 2.168 14
18. Sato BAR-Honda (M) 1:27.891 + 2.515 20
19. Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:28.168 + 2.792 29
20. Doornbos Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:28.620 + 3.244 30
21. Liuzzi Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:28.926 + 3.550 7
22. Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:29.671 + 4.295 23
23. Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time
24. Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) No Time
All timing unofficial[/QUOTE]
As already stated, it's great to see the cars running in anger again. :D
| grandpa rex | 03-04-2005 07:21 AM |
I believe that the concorde agrement specifies that the teams must field a grid of 20 cars. What's going to happen if Minardi doesn't race? Will McLAren run a third car? Will Ferrari?
| TimStevens | 03-04-2005 08:59 AM |
Agreed, cool to see the cars running again, but I gotta say, if anything, the lap times show the futility of the rules changes in actually slowing the cars down. We'll see if they have any affect on making the races more exciting.
| BillT | 03-04-2005 09:13 AM |
It was definitely nice to see and hear the cars running again. Other than drivers opting to go over the grass/gravel rather than locking the wheels up, it pretty much looks like last year and I'm pretty sure the qualifying times will be pretty close to last year's times which would still put them ahead of the times from two years ago.
| gtguy | 03-04-2005 09:21 AM |
What was also interesting was Matchett's information that Minardi has all the stuff to make their car meet the 2005 formula, which makes you wonder what the deal is with Stoddart, and IS he being put up to something by the other teams?
Kevin
Kevin
| asquaredrex | 03-04-2005 10:00 AM |
[QUOTE=gtguy]What was also interesting was Matchett's information that Minardi has all the stuff to make their car meet the 2005 formula, which makes you wonder what the deal is with Stoddart, and IS he being put up to something by the other teams?
Kevin[/QUOTE]
I believe the Speed article indicated that he only has two prototyes of the 2k5 Formula parts. Knowing Minardi driver's love of grass and gravel traps (I recall seeing Zsolt coming right for me at Montreal last year), this would not an optiomal decision....
Kevin[/QUOTE]
I believe the Speed article indicated that he only has two prototyes of the 2k5 Formula parts. Knowing Minardi driver's love of grass and gravel traps (I recall seeing Zsolt coming right for me at Montreal last year), this would not an optiomal decision....
| artkevin | 03-04-2005 10:03 AM |
The most interesting thing for me was the fact that Sauber has 05 spec Ferrari engines while Ferrari is running 03s in their own chasis. Strange for all of the tension between the 2 teams over the off season.
| fuzzy13 | 03-04-2005 10:29 AM |
I remember reading soemthing where Ferrari said that the '05 engine would not fit in the '04 chassis and that is why they are not running it. If that's the case, how could Sauber get the engine?
During the practice the caption says that RB5(R?) Cosworth. So what is Sauber running :confused:
Or did I get my teams mixed up in all the excitment with the season finally starting...
During the practice the caption says that RB5(R?) Cosworth. So what is Sauber running :confused:
Or did I get my teams mixed up in all the excitment with the season finally starting...
| rupertberr | 03-04-2005 10:36 AM |
[QUOTE=fuzzy13]
During the practice the caption says that RB5(R?) Cosworth. So what is Sauber running :confused:
Or did I get my teams mixed up in all the excitment with the season finally starting...[/QUOTE]
I think RB stands for Red Bull. I keep getting Red Bull and Sauber mixed up since they have been joined at the hip forever until this year. Now they are two seperate teams.
During the practice the caption says that RB5(R?) Cosworth. So what is Sauber running :confused:
Or did I get my teams mixed up in all the excitment with the season finally starting...[/QUOTE]
I think RB stands for Red Bull. I keep getting Red Bull and Sauber mixed up since they have been joined at the hip forever until this year. Now they are two seperate teams.
| Kha0S | 03-04-2005 10:42 AM |
You're mixed up. Red Bull and Minardi are running Cosworth motors, and Sauber runs the Ferrari motor. Particularly, the F2004M that Ferrari is running is using the 053 engine, while Sauber is actually running the newer 055 engine in their chassis. Sauber is running a full 2005 spec chassis instead of a modified 2004 chassis, and as such, designed it to take the newer 055 engine.
Whenever the F2005 debuts, you can be sure that it'll be built around the 055.
/Andrew
Whenever the F2005 debuts, you can be sure that it'll be built around the 055.
/Andrew
| gargleblaster | 03-04-2005 10:45 AM |
[QUOTE=gtguy]What was also interesting was Matchett's information that Minardi has all the stuff to make their car meet the 2005 formula, which makes you wonder what the deal is with Stoddart, and IS he being put up to something by the other teams?
Kevin[/QUOTE]You mean some of the teams *cough*GPWC*cough* might want to give Ferrari a political black-eye and would employ dirty tricks to do it?
Nooooooo... ;)
Kevin[/QUOTE]You mean some of the teams *cough*GPWC*cough* might want to give Ferrari a political black-eye and would employ dirty tricks to do it?
Nooooooo... ;)
| shaft | 03-04-2005 10:48 AM |
:cool:
[quote]
[url]http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/050304111819.shtml[/url]
Court grants Minardi injunction
Team to compete in Aussie GP qualifying
Formula One team Minardi was late Friday granted a court injunction to compete in qualifying sessions for the season-opening Australian Grand Prix after race officials had ordered them to comply with new regulations.
A judge in the Victorian Supreme Court ruled that the F1 minnows could participate in Saturday qualifying given that the matter was considered urgent.
Minardi team principal Paul Stoddart sought the court injunction after FIA stewards had told his team they had to comply with the 2005 safety regulations to participate in the Australian GP.
The court was adjourned until Saturday when the issue could be discussed further, the presiding judge said.
Stoddart said outside the court he was relieved his cars could get on the track on Saturday.
"Now it's in the hands of the court, I really can't say anymore than that except that Minardi will be participating tomorrow, as usual, at the Grand Prix," Stoddart said. "It's really fantastic to actually get on the track in the wake of all the publicity."
Earlier FIA stewards blocked Minardi's efforts to start their cars over the weekend unless the struggling team complied with new regulations
[/quote]
[quote]
[url]http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/050304111819.shtml[/url]
Court grants Minardi injunction
Team to compete in Aussie GP qualifying
Formula One team Minardi was late Friday granted a court injunction to compete in qualifying sessions for the season-opening Australian Grand Prix after race officials had ordered them to comply with new regulations.
A judge in the Victorian Supreme Court ruled that the F1 minnows could participate in Saturday qualifying given that the matter was considered urgent.
Minardi team principal Paul Stoddart sought the court injunction after FIA stewards had told his team they had to comply with the 2005 safety regulations to participate in the Australian GP.
The court was adjourned until Saturday when the issue could be discussed further, the presiding judge said.
Stoddart said outside the court he was relieved his cars could get on the track on Saturday.
"Now it's in the hands of the court, I really can't say anymore than that except that Minardi will be participating tomorrow, as usual, at the Grand Prix," Stoddart said. "It's really fantastic to actually get on the track in the wake of all the publicity."
Earlier FIA stewards blocked Minardi's efforts to start their cars over the weekend unless the struggling team complied with new regulations
[/quote]
| BriDrive | 03-04-2005 10:54 AM |
As for Minardi and their alleged '05 spec aero sitting around: I suspect they are fairly certain that attaching these untested devices will surely put their cars at GREAT risk, something they definitely cannot afford.....Interesting dilemma: how much $$$ does Minardi stand to lose by way of sponsorship incentive and TV $$$ and marketing $$$ by failing to grid VERSUS, how much $$$ does it need to replace a couple of completely wadded cars.......
Engines are an interesting dilemma for the top teams because: the 2004 spec engines are WAY too squeezed, they were designed ( internals and everything in it ) to last for exactly as long as they had to last year. A couple of different engineers have stated that these 2004 engines could not be modified to live a 2005 life. The teams have completely redisigned new engines from the ground up, necessarily, for the sole purpose of longevity. Wall thicknesses, alloy content...the whole 9 yards...even the gearbox integration had to be considered with the respect to dimensional rules changes and new aero req's for the rear end and undercarriage diffuser efficiency.
So much for the "cost saving theory"...from a cost accounting standpoint, the overall engine cost may actually be MORE this year than last, as they will not use as many, but the development infrastructure to retool and refit and retest a NEW casting from the ground up is a major departure from last years iterration.
Sauber's 05 Ferrari engine, I'm certain, is the basis for the Ferrari F2005 package, but obviously a "less than optimal" reliable customer variant of what the Scuderia will actually deploy.
Prediction: Ferrari will be relatively disasterous mid-pack finish in Australia...calculated and known before the lights even go out by Brawn et al........will stoically and confidently walk away already knowing the future..............
Renault and McLaren will scrap it out for at least the first 3 events to take full and complete advantage of points they may not again see later in the season.
BAR and Williams shoot for top six points...........
BriDrive
Engines are an interesting dilemma for the top teams because: the 2004 spec engines are WAY too squeezed, they were designed ( internals and everything in it ) to last for exactly as long as they had to last year. A couple of different engineers have stated that these 2004 engines could not be modified to live a 2005 life. The teams have completely redisigned new engines from the ground up, necessarily, for the sole purpose of longevity. Wall thicknesses, alloy content...the whole 9 yards...even the gearbox integration had to be considered with the respect to dimensional rules changes and new aero req's for the rear end and undercarriage diffuser efficiency.
So much for the "cost saving theory"...from a cost accounting standpoint, the overall engine cost may actually be MORE this year than last, as they will not use as many, but the development infrastructure to retool and refit and retest a NEW casting from the ground up is a major departure from last years iterration.
Sauber's 05 Ferrari engine, I'm certain, is the basis for the Ferrari F2005 package, but obviously a "less than optimal" reliable customer variant of what the Scuderia will actually deploy.
Prediction: Ferrari will be relatively disasterous mid-pack finish in Australia...calculated and known before the lights even go out by Brawn et al........will stoically and confidently walk away already knowing the future..............
Renault and McLaren will scrap it out for at least the first 3 events to take full and complete advantage of points they may not again see later in the season.
BAR and Williams shoot for top six points...........
BriDrive
| Kha0S | 03-04-2005 10:56 AM |
Ummm, wow. The courts are involved? This is going to get interesting.
/Andrew
/Andrew
| Kha0S | 03-04-2005 11:00 AM |
[url]http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=23689[/url]
Minardi has withdrawn their complaint.
Minardi has withdrawn their complaint.
| BillT | 03-04-2005 11:09 AM |
Maybe I'm a cynic, but all of this smells of publicity stunt on Minardi's part. This has to be the most press they have gotten in the last several years - I have a feeling they will magically be compliant with '05 rules in time for qualifying.
| Kha0S | 03-04-2005 11:14 AM |
[QUOTE=BillT]Maybe I'm a cynic, but all of this smells of publicity stunt on Minardi's part. This has to be the most press they have gotten in the last several years - I have a feeling they will magically be compliant with '05 rules in time for qualifying.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what happened.
First, they couldn't get signatures from all of the other teams to run the 2004 car...
Then, they managed to get everyone's signatures, including Ferrari.
Upon inspection, the FIA rejected them and said that their car didn't meet the 2005 safety regulations, and couldn't race, even with the signatures.
Minardi then took the case to the Victoria Supreme Court, and successfully obtained a court injunction to run their cars in 2004 spec.
The FIA then filed back, presumably to get a stay of the injunction and keep Minardi out of the race.
Minardi then withdrew their complaint and the injunction, and are now bolting the 2005 parts up to the car to run.
*boggle*
/Andrew
That's exactly what happened.
First, they couldn't get signatures from all of the other teams to run the 2004 car...
Then, they managed to get everyone's signatures, including Ferrari.
Upon inspection, the FIA rejected them and said that their car didn't meet the 2005 safety regulations, and couldn't race, even with the signatures.
Minardi then took the case to the Victoria Supreme Court, and successfully obtained a court injunction to run their cars in 2004 spec.
The FIA then filed back, presumably to get a stay of the injunction and keep Minardi out of the race.
Minardi then withdrew their complaint and the injunction, and are now bolting the 2005 parts up to the car to run.
*boggle*
/Andrew
| Dr. WOT | 03-04-2005 12:18 PM |
Good call on the publicity stunt, that sounds like something Stoddard would do. I didn't care for his showboating on the podium with a bottle of champagne while his drivers and sponsors sat around with their thumbs up their butts.
| Dussander | 03-04-2005 01:51 PM |
What a wonderful oppertunity for the anti-Minardi camp to spew their pent up frustrations.
| Dr. WOT | 03-04-2005 02:06 PM |
No frustrations here buddy, it's all gravy for a tifosi.
If that was directed at me, I am actually a big Minardi supporter... when I walked the pitlane last year in MTL, they were to only team that seemed to enjoy the fact that they were there. The didn't have any too-cool-for-you pretenses, and in fact were giving out balloons. I feel for the hardships they had last year (death of team principal, and Ford's last minute bail out) and think overall that the F1 grid needs them.
However this mess makes no sense and something stinks about it.
If that was directed at me, I am actually a big Minardi supporter... when I walked the pitlane last year in MTL, they were to only team that seemed to enjoy the fact that they were there. The didn't have any too-cool-for-you pretenses, and in fact were giving out balloons. I feel for the hardships they had last year (death of team principal, and Ford's last minute bail out) and think overall that the F1 grid needs them.
However this mess makes no sense and something stinks about it.
| WRSport | 03-04-2005 02:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Dussander]What a wonderful oppertunity for the anti-Minardi camp to spew their pent up frustrations.[/QUOTE]
:lol: 12345
:lol: 12345
| Dussander | 03-04-2005 02:20 PM |
Oh sorry. Did I pigeon hole you because you said something bad against Mindari? Shame on me.
<stirring the pot>
<stirring the pot>
| Dr. WOT | 03-04-2005 02:42 PM |
Actually you assumed to understand my position because I commented on Stoddard's antics.
| Dussander | 03-04-2005 02:46 PM |
You're right, it was stupid.
[QUOTE]What a wonderful oppertunity for the anti-Ferrari camp to spew their pent up frustrations.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]What a wonderful oppertunity for the anti-Ferrari camp to spew their pent up frustrations.[/QUOTE]
| Dr. WOT | 03-04-2005 02:51 PM |
*edit*
I stand by that comment, there has been too much Ferrari bashing over this. If the pigeon hole fits, wear it. I am quite simply not anti-Minardi, but I do think Stoddard acting foolish. Perhaps his hand was forced, however his actions are not all about survival -- they are also highly political, which I give a :monkey:
I stand by that comment, there has been too much Ferrari bashing over this. If the pigeon hole fits, wear it. I am quite simply not anti-Minardi, but I do think Stoddard acting foolish. Perhaps his hand was forced, however his actions are not all about survival -- they are also highly political, which I give a :monkey:
| Kha0S | 03-04-2005 02:54 PM |
Children!
:furious:
:D
I'm not anti-Ferrari or anti-Minardi ... and I think this is Stoddie's way of making much ado over nothing as a way to point at the absurdity of the policitcs inside of F1 these days.
I think it's great fun to watch... even if the racing is a bit predictable, at least the posturing isn't. :)
/Andrew
:furious:
:D
I'm not anti-Ferrari or anti-Minardi ... and I think this is Stoddie's way of making much ado over nothing as a way to point at the absurdity of the policitcs inside of F1 these days.
I think it's great fun to watch... even if the racing is a bit predictable, at least the posturing isn't. :)
/Andrew
| Dussander | 03-04-2005 03:38 PM |
"Boring conversation anyway." <Blam!>
:)
Oh, man, I hear there is a race this weekend.
:)
Oh, man, I hear there is a race this weekend.
| Dr. WOT | 03-04-2005 03:39 PM |
finally something we can agree on! :D
| Dussander | 03-04-2005 03:42 PM |
Next practice should be live (online) at 4:00PM Central time. formula1.com seems to have the quickest results. They actually look just like the version Ralph was looking at when sitting in his car, from the footage Speed had.
| Dussander | 03-04-2005 05:07 PM |
Son of a... it is wet in Melbourne..
| BillT | 03-04-2005 07:50 PM |
Surprise, suprise...the Minardi crew somehow :rolleyes: managed to get their cars to conform to the '05 standards that they agreed to follow. How can anyone not think that this was a ploy just to get their name in the news?
| amp5 | 03-04-2005 09:37 PM |
how did they determine the order for 1st qualifying?
go kimi!
go kimi!
| finnRex | 03-04-2005 10:00 PM |
Surprise, surprise...Sato crashes during qualifying. Learn the limits of the car, and stay as close as possible to it without going over. Learn from Schumacher(Mikey, of course).
Go Kimi!!!:)
Mika
Go Kimi!!!:)
Mika
| WRSport | 03-04-2005 10:03 PM |
It IS SO nice to have the racing seasons getting started again!!!!
I was going to skip F1 at Indy this year but I think I just decided to start booking the trip afterall.
I was going to skip F1 at Indy this year but I think I just decided to start booking the trip afterall.
| amp5 | 03-04-2005 10:18 PM |
Already ordered my gold montreal tickets.
crazy qualifying session. if its dry tomorrow, the order will have to look very similar to today.
crazy qualifying session. if its dry tomorrow, the order will have to look very similar to today.
| johnfelstead | 03-04-2005 10:22 PM |
both Minardi's ahead of both Schumachers. :lol:
| johnfelstead | 03-04-2005 10:24 PM |
1. 6 FISICHELLA Renault M 1'33"171 204.901 Km/h
2. 16 TRULLI Toyota M 1'35"270 + 0'02"099
3. 7 WEBBER Williams BMW M 1'36"717 + 0'03"546
4. 11 VILLENEUVE Sauber Petronas M 1'36"984 + 0'03"813
5. 15 KLIEN RedBull Cosworth M 1'37"486 + 0'04"315
6. 14 COULTHARD RedBull Cosworth M 1'38"320 + 0'05"149
7. 8 HEIDFELD Williams BMW M 1'39"517 + 0'06"346
8. 3 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'41"512 + 0'08"341
9. 19 KARTHIKEYAN Jordan Toyota B 1'44"357 + 0'11"186
10. 9 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M 1'44"997 + 0'11"826
11. 10 MONTOYA McLaren Mercedes M 1'45"325 + 0'12"154
12. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1'45"481 + 0'12"310
13. 18 MONTEIRO Jordan Toyota B 1'46"846 + 0'13"675
14. 5 ALONSO Renault M 1'47"708 + 0'14"537
15. 21 ALBERS Minardi Cosworth B 1'49"230 + 0'16"059
16. 20 FRIESACHER Minardi Cosworth B 1'50"864 + 0'17"693
17. 17 R.SCHUMACHER Toyota M 1'51"495 + 0'18"324
18. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 1'57"931 + 0'24"760
2. 16 TRULLI Toyota M 1'35"270 + 0'02"099
3. 7 WEBBER Williams BMW M 1'36"717 + 0'03"546
4. 11 VILLENEUVE Sauber Petronas M 1'36"984 + 0'03"813
5. 15 KLIEN RedBull Cosworth M 1'37"486 + 0'04"315
6. 14 COULTHARD RedBull Cosworth M 1'38"320 + 0'05"149
7. 8 HEIDFELD Williams BMW M 1'39"517 + 0'06"346
8. 3 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'41"512 + 0'08"341
9. 19 KARTHIKEYAN Jordan Toyota B 1'44"357 + 0'11"186
10. 9 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M 1'44"997 + 0'11"826
11. 10 MONTOYA McLaren Mercedes M 1'45"325 + 0'12"154
12. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1'45"481 + 0'12"310
13. 18 MONTEIRO Jordan Toyota B 1'46"846 + 0'13"675
14. 5 ALONSO Renault M 1'47"708 + 0'14"537
15. 21 ALBERS Minardi Cosworth B 1'49"230 + 0'16"059
16. 20 FRIESACHER Minardi Cosworth B 1'50"864 + 0'17"693
17. 17 R.SCHUMACHER Toyota M 1'51"495 + 0'18"324
18. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 1'57"931 + 0'24"760
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