| bragginwagon | 12-03-2002 08:15 PM |
Willing to pay.
I'm with Bryan.
If anyone has done this in the Boston area - with no issues, I'll pay you to do it on my wagon...of course you can be paid in Sam Adams if you prefer...
Curtis
If anyone has done this in the Boston area - with no issues, I'll pay you to do it on my wagon...of course you can be paid in Sam Adams if you prefer...
Curtis
| REDOO2000 | 12-03-2002 09:41 PM |
*******bump************
| CaptainMorgan | 12-04-2002 02:42 PM |
The fog lights were simple. The entire assembly comes apart. I scratched off the green coating on the back of the button window,used a little creative wiring to get the LED to shine right into the window. I'll take a pictuere later. I'll also post some pics of my gauges tonight. My advice to anyone doing this is: Dont be afraid. Rip the whole thing apart and play with it. Its not so sensitive that you'll really destroy antyhing. Its really quite easy to solder and to put the new lights in.
| bryan2.5rs | 12-05-2002 12:55 AM |
captain, what did u scratch the coating off with
| CaptainMorgan | 12-05-2002 01:47 PM |
A knife.
I just took an xacto knife and scratched it off with the tip.
I just took an xacto knife and scratched it off with the tip.
| ScoobyLieu | 12-06-2002 02:31 AM |
Cluster array
Captainmorgan - Did you get a chance to take pictures of your 2 wide angle/1 high intensity led cluster combo? I'm curious as to how you did it and it would be better than imagining the end result. Your description of the results sounds fantastic.
| bryan2.5rs | 12-07-2002 09:37 PM |
captain- how did u place the led inside the fog and cruise switches
| DragonRM | 12-08-2002 06:10 PM |
been meaning to do this on my rs... came with that retarded dull green lighting and I've done the gauges and my stereo is blue led and need to match the color scheme for the other gauges :/ At least now I know where to pick more up ;)
| CaptainMorgan | 12-09-2002 11:09 AM |
[QUOTE]bryan2.5rs captain- how did u place the led inside the fog and cruise switches [/QUOTE]
The housing for hte switch pops off, and then I just soldered the LED and the resistor in there and viola!
The green color isnt so bad, I like the blue dont get me wrong, but sometimes I miss the green, cause all I can do is see the faults in he blue.
The housing for hte switch pops off, and then I just soldered the LED and the resistor in there and viola!
The green color isnt so bad, I like the blue dont get me wrong, but sometimes I miss the green, cause all I can do is see the faults in he blue.
| bryan2.5rs | 12-11-2002 06:05 PM |
has anybody made a GOOD mod page for this yet
| Lachlan | 12-12-2002 02:16 PM |
PLEASE! somebody do a write up! I want to do it but I don't ahve enough experience to pick out of these many threads what i need. :confused:
| CaptainMorgan | 12-12-2002 03:54 PM |
[url]http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=997[/url] If thats not good enough, please tell me whats missing and I'll work on it.
| Jarrod Li | 12-12-2002 03:56 PM |
Captain, when you first posted that mod it didn't have your new blue dash in it, does the zip file contain the new pics?
Thanks,
Thanks,
| CaptainMorgan | 12-12-2002 04:01 PM |
No I dont have pics of the new gauges yet. I'm working on other things at this point and havent had time. I might post some pics but I dont think that a how-to will be coming for it. I get so many qusetions about it and I dont feel like giving instructions on basic soldering over and over again.
| CaptainMorgan | 12-12-2002 04:02 PM |
Also, does anyone know how to edit a post on scoobymods? Everytime I try it tells me that I'm not authorized to post to that thread or edit the original.
| bryan2.5rs | 12-13-2002 06:52 PM |
it would be helpful if you could go into a little more detail on where you soldered the led, and some pictures of the LED's soldered in place would be a big help. On the scooobymods page you say that you used radio shack LED's but in this thread you talk about trying all different types of LED's are those for the gage cluster only or did you used different LED's in the foglight switches and radio. please explain what LED's you used and where.
| bryan2.5rs | 12-13-2002 06:56 PM |
what does this mean "17. If you are replacing the standard bulbs with LED's, the anode is at the top of the hole." do you mean solder or just a plug in LED i don't understand please be more specific, THANX Bryan
| CaptainMorgan | 12-14-2002 02:46 PM |
soldering in the LED's should be self explanitory if you've taken the stereo apart. They just go in where the old bulbs were. And that means that you have to de-solder the old bulbs and solder the LED's in. Anode means positive. LED's are polarized, meaning that current only flows in one direction through them. wire them up wrong and you get nothing. Everything you have to solder. It probably voids some warranty somewhere. You have to be adventurous to do this. Isnt that the nature of modding? I mean, if it were safe, then wouldnt everyone be doing it? I couldn't find any information on what I wanted to know, so I took it all apart and figured it out.
| John #555 | 12-15-2002 04:40 AM |
FYI,
I will need to stop by radioshack for LED's sometime soon. I've used the film method and found out these thing only last couple of months, even shorter in the dash. Now, my once red LCD screen on the radio is orange (getting lighter everyday:( ). If anyone is considering using some sort of film over the bulbs, be sure they are heat resistant (I couldnt find any...)
I will need to stop by radioshack for LED's sometime soon. I've used the film method and found out these thing only last couple of months, even shorter in the dash. Now, my once red LCD screen on the radio is orange (getting lighter everyday:( ). If anyone is considering using some sort of film over the bulbs, be sure they are heat resistant (I couldnt find any...)
| Jarrod Li | 12-15-2002 01:03 PM |
For the heat resistant stuff try going to a music shop, one that sells lighting equipment. You can get sheets of it in 6" x 6" squares, in nearly any color, relatively cheap.
| CaptainMorgan | 12-15-2002 07:21 PM |
[IMG]http://morganp22.home.mchsi.com/images/photo3/105-0561_IMG.jpg[/IMG]
This is the best I can do for right now. I'll get close-ups of the gauge later. But if you look over at the fuel gauge, you'll see that the needles glow green with the blue lights.
This is the best I can do for right now. I'll get close-ups of the gauge later. But if you look over at the fuel gauge, you'll see that the needles glow green with the blue lights.
| superhawk44 | 12-16-2002 12:27 AM |
sweet
Hey cap that looks awsome!!! So how is mine comming? Have you shipped it out yet? Can't wait to get it back. Did you say you had flaws in yours before? FRom this pipc it looks absolutely perfect,ta ta,CHRIS.......:alien:
| CaptainMorgan | 12-16-2002 11:19 AM |
Chris, yours is done and the red on it looks absolutely freaking awesome! I'm almost jealous of it! I sent it out in the mail this morning and you should have it like wednesday or thursday. Again sorry I took so long on it.
I also ordered a new 20mm sway bar (I have a wagon) and next summer is going to be the summer of the engine mods. I cant wait!
I also ordered a new 20mm sway bar (I have a wagon) and next summer is going to be the summer of the engine mods. I cant wait!
| Jarrod Li | 12-16-2002 11:26 AM |
Sweet!
Captain, do you think you could make a post with a list of the current led's that you are using and where. I know you've mentioned using some different viewing angle leds and such. This would be kinda like an updated shopping list for us all.
Thanks,
Captain, do you think you could make a post with a list of the current led's that you are using and where. I know you've mentioned using some different viewing angle leds and such. This would be kinda like an updated shopping list for us all.
Thanks,
| sperry | 12-16-2002 01:09 PM |
Since I don't mind doing a little soldering, what do you guys think about this: instead of using the plug-n-play LEDs that some people are complaining aren't bright enough, what about getting some brighter discrete LEDs?
here's a comparison of several LEDs:
the basic incandescant replacement LED:
[url]http://www.netdisty.net/ds/WF150/[/url]
WF150-0UR-014V
12/14V, 20mA, 115mcd (intensity), 120deg (view angle), $6.50ea
some similar discrete LED:
[url]http://www.netdisty.net/ds/ld120cwr/[/url]
L206CR3K-10VF
10.6/12.7V, 10/15mA, 200mcd, 160deg, $5.00ea
L206CR3K-5.4VF
5.3/6.3V, 20/30mA, 200mcd, 160deg, $5.00ea
Since the WRX lighting system is 9.5V, you can see that the WF150-0UR-014V LED isn't getting it's required voltage, meaning that it's not as bright as it could be. The L206CR3K-10VF's 10.6V is a bit closer to the 9.5V, plus the light output and view angle are greater. It's also $1.50ea cheaper!
Another option, use two L206CR3K-5.4VF in parallel (10.6V). Now correct me if I'm wrong, but won't that be about twice as bright, and at just about the proper voltage? Isn't that better than using a resistor on a 5V LED, since all the power will go to light rather than some of it to heat a resistor?
One final idea, what about using a ton of little cheap LEDs in a cluster to save money? Or would that draw too many Amps? Say 5 LDF200CWR3KF's to replace each light?
--Scott
here's a comparison of several LEDs:
the basic incandescant replacement LED:
[url]http://www.netdisty.net/ds/WF150/[/url]
WF150-0UR-014V
12/14V, 20mA, 115mcd (intensity), 120deg (view angle), $6.50ea
some similar discrete LED:
[url]http://www.netdisty.net/ds/ld120cwr/[/url]
L206CR3K-10VF
10.6/12.7V, 10/15mA, 200mcd, 160deg, $5.00ea
L206CR3K-5.4VF
5.3/6.3V, 20/30mA, 200mcd, 160deg, $5.00ea
Since the WRX lighting system is 9.5V, you can see that the WF150-0UR-014V LED isn't getting it's required voltage, meaning that it's not as bright as it could be. The L206CR3K-10VF's 10.6V is a bit closer to the 9.5V, plus the light output and view angle are greater. It's also $1.50ea cheaper!
Another option, use two L206CR3K-5.4VF in parallel (10.6V). Now correct me if I'm wrong, but won't that be about twice as bright, and at just about the proper voltage? Isn't that better than using a resistor on a 5V LED, since all the power will go to light rather than some of it to heat a resistor?
One final idea, what about using a ton of little cheap LEDs in a cluster to save money? Or would that draw too many Amps? Say 5 LDF200CWR3KF's to replace each light?
--Scott
| CaptainMorgan | 12-16-2002 04:06 PM |
Thats mostly what we are talking about here. I tried the plug in ones, found that they were too big to fit in the sockets, soldered them in, and found that they were too dim.
I made a post earlier in this thread about using some LED's from nichia.com. #NSPB546BS and #NSPB500S are the single discrete LED's that I used in the whole dash. These are not overly bright, but they diffuse very well and have a view angle of 120¢ª, so I made a group of two or three of these in parallel and used them and the brightened up the dash like you see in the pictures.
LED's color is based on the voltage that passes through the organic plastic. Almost all blue LED's, even the really huge ones, run at 3.6v. They say they are rated at 12/14v, but if you look at it, there is a little housing on the LED that covers the resistor knocking the voltage down. Granted this might be a better resistor that you can get at Radio Shack and might be a closer match for the voltage step down, but its still going to run at 3.6v 20mA.
Maybe I'm full of bs here, but this is what I've read, learned in my EE classes, and from imperical testing.
I made a post earlier in this thread about using some LED's from nichia.com. #NSPB546BS and #NSPB500S are the single discrete LED's that I used in the whole dash. These are not overly bright, but they diffuse very well and have a view angle of 120¢ª, so I made a group of two or three of these in parallel and used them and the brightened up the dash like you see in the pictures.
LED's color is based on the voltage that passes through the organic plastic. Almost all blue LED's, even the really huge ones, run at 3.6v. They say they are rated at 12/14v, but if you look at it, there is a little housing on the LED that covers the resistor knocking the voltage down. Granted this might be a better resistor that you can get at Radio Shack and might be a closer match for the voltage step down, but its still going to run at 3.6v 20mA.
Maybe I'm full of bs here, but this is what I've read, learned in my EE classes, and from imperical testing.
| MrKeg | 12-16-2002 04:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sperry [/i]
One final idea, what about using a ton of little cheap LEDs in a cluster to save money? Or would that draw too many Amps? Say 5 LDF200CWR3KF's to replace each light?
--Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
I have had quite a bit of success making various arrays of LEDs in serial and parallel. Here is a picture of a six LED array consisting of two arrays of 3 serial LEDs in parallel. (Read it again, it will eventually make sense.) ;) I've used these to replace the dome and map lights.
-MrKeg
[IMG]http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=125941[/IMG]
One final idea, what about using a ton of little cheap LEDs in a cluster to save money? Or would that draw too many Amps? Say 5 LDF200CWR3KF's to replace each light?
--Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
I have had quite a bit of success making various arrays of LEDs in serial and parallel. Here is a picture of a six LED array consisting of two arrays of 3 serial LEDs in parallel. (Read it again, it will eventually make sense.) ;) I've used these to replace the dome and map lights.
-MrKeg
[IMG]http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=125941[/IMG]
| CaptainMorgan | 12-16-2002 07:10 PM |
That little array is pretty cool! If I'm correct in thinking, you have two banks in parallel made of three LED's in series? Do the lights at the end of each bank seem dimmer than the ones at hte front? From everything I've seen this should be the case.
The only wany you could make that work well is if you made an array that was curved. The biggest problem is that LED's are too focused to give good even lighting. I have found some that are very diffuse, but these are low powered and if you look closely they too have bright spots.
The only wany you could make that work well is if you made an array that was curved. The biggest problem is that LED's are too focused to give good even lighting. I have found some that are very diffuse, but these are low powered and if you look closely they too have bright spots.
| MrKeg | 12-16-2002 08:51 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CaptainMorgan [/i]
[B]That little array is pretty cool! If I'm correct in thinking, you have two banks in parallel made of three LED's in series? Do the lights at the end of each bank seem dimmer than the ones at hte front? From everything I've seen this should be the case.
The only wany you could make that work well is if you made an array that was curved. The biggest problem is that LED's are too focused to give good even lighting. I have found some that are very diffuse, but these are low powered and if you look closely they too have bright spots. [/B][/QUOTE]
Your understanding of the configuration is correct. I forgot to mention that there is a 10 ohm resistor in series to trim the current in each leg to 22mA. (20mA is the optimal current)
Each LED in the array is equally bright. The whole idea of using a 3x array is to get the voltage drops across each LED to add up to 12V. So if you have a nominal drop of 3.85V at each LED and a .44V drop across the resistor, you have 3.85 + 3.85 + 3.85 + .44 = 11.99V. Because the current through each LED (.22mA) is the same, the voltage drops are the same and therefore the brightness is the same.
The picture I attached was of an array I used to replace my map lights. In this application, I wanted the light to be focused. When I want diffuse light, I drill the top of the LED to make it concave rather than convex. This works well. I also have hot glued diffuser grating from fluorescent lighting to the LED domes.
I have made arrays of 2, 3, 4 and 6 LEDs. The advantage of using arrays of 3 in series is that you can add as many as you want in parallel (6, 9, 12 . . . .) as long as you trim the current with the series resistor.
BTW, a 6x array costs less than $8 to make.
-MrKeg
[IMG]http://baril.home.attbi.com/images/blue2.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://baril.home.attbi.com/images/blue3.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://baril.home.attbi.com/images/blue4.JPG[/IMG]
[B]That little array is pretty cool! If I'm correct in thinking, you have two banks in parallel made of three LED's in series? Do the lights at the end of each bank seem dimmer than the ones at hte front? From everything I've seen this should be the case.
The only wany you could make that work well is if you made an array that was curved. The biggest problem is that LED's are too focused to give good even lighting. I have found some that are very diffuse, but these are low powered and if you look closely they too have bright spots. [/B][/QUOTE]
Your understanding of the configuration is correct. I forgot to mention that there is a 10 ohm resistor in series to trim the current in each leg to 22mA. (20mA is the optimal current)
Each LED in the array is equally bright. The whole idea of using a 3x array is to get the voltage drops across each LED to add up to 12V. So if you have a nominal drop of 3.85V at each LED and a .44V drop across the resistor, you have 3.85 + 3.85 + 3.85 + .44 = 11.99V. Because the current through each LED (.22mA) is the same, the voltage drops are the same and therefore the brightness is the same.
The picture I attached was of an array I used to replace my map lights. In this application, I wanted the light to be focused. When I want diffuse light, I drill the top of the LED to make it concave rather than convex. This works well. I also have hot glued diffuser grating from fluorescent lighting to the LED domes.
I have made arrays of 2, 3, 4 and 6 LEDs. The advantage of using arrays of 3 in series is that you can add as many as you want in parallel (6, 9, 12 . . . .) as long as you trim the current with the series resistor.
BTW, a 6x array costs less than $8 to make.
-MrKeg
[IMG]http://baril.home.attbi.com/images/blue2.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://baril.home.attbi.com/images/blue3.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://baril.home.attbi.com/images/blue4.JPG[/IMG]
| superhawk44 | 12-17-2002 08:23 PM |
Sweet
Cap you are the best. One question for you,how did you test it out,take yours appart? And one question for Keg,when will you have some ready and how much do you want for them? I'll take one red and one blue:D :devil: . L8er,CHRIS......
| DragonRM | 12-20-2002 12:36 PM |
aye that's awesome... you should consider reselling... I'd probably buy a few
| CaptainMorgan | 12-23-2002 01:19 PM |
This isnt a kit. Its a do-it-yourself kind of thing. Unless I could get a bunch of stock stereo's, it'd be kinda hard to sell them.
| ImprezedRS | 12-24-2002 12:07 PM |
Hey Captain, have you tried using clear hot glue to difuse the leds light, I have done this on a few things myself with 30degree viewing anlge leds and it spreads the light out well, I even took a mini mag and put one red led with hotglue covering the end and now it looks like ET's finger. Give it a shot, it won't work for everthing but helps with the smaller stuff. Oh and if you don't like it you can mostliky pull the hot glue off when complety dry.
| nhluhr | 01-01-2003 12:21 AM |
ok so i am looking at the service manual and it says the lighting for the instrument cluster is all 14v. Is it safe to assume that it is just straight off the battery/alternator and it could therefore alternate between 12 and 14.4 depending on the charging system?
Somebody check my work on this:
V=IR
R = V/I
required voltage for the radioshack 276-316 LED is 3.7 and the current is 20mA max.
so, supply voltage (14.4) minus required voltage (3.7) is 10.7 volts.
so, 10.7V / 0.020A = 535 ohm resistor.
That would be on the "safe side" to keep the LED long-life. Realistically, i'd probably have the thing dimmed a little most of the time. If I calculate for exactly 14v, i get a resistance of 515 ohm.
Which value should I shoot for? I see Radioshack offers a 470ohm and a 560ohm resistor. Should I just grab one of them and call it a day or should I make a custom resistance out of multiple resistors?
-Nick
Somebody check my work on this:
V=IR
R = V/I
required voltage for the radioshack 276-316 LED is 3.7 and the current is 20mA max.
so, supply voltage (14.4) minus required voltage (3.7) is 10.7 volts.
so, 10.7V / 0.020A = 535 ohm resistor.
That would be on the "safe side" to keep the LED long-life. Realistically, i'd probably have the thing dimmed a little most of the time. If I calculate for exactly 14v, i get a resistance of 515 ohm.
Which value should I shoot for? I see Radioshack offers a 470ohm and a 560ohm resistor. Should I just grab one of them and call it a day or should I make a custom resistance out of multiple resistors?
-Nick
| sperry | 01-01-2003 02:37 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nhluhr [/i]
[B]
so, 10.7V / 0.020A = 535 ohm resistor.[/B][/QUOTE]
Tada: [url]http://www.bit-tech.net/article/68/[/url]
the web is amazing.
--Scott
[B]
so, 10.7V / 0.020A = 535 ohm resistor.[/B][/QUOTE]
Tada: [url]http://www.bit-tech.net/article/68/[/url]
the web is amazing.
--Scott
| sperry | 01-01-2003 03:20 AM |
Okay, I finally finished my red LED conversion... just in time for 2003!!
I used a bunch of 2V discrete LEDs and wired them in serial to add up to 12V... so that's 6 of 'em. In some spots I used less than 6 in a group, and an appropriate resistor to even things up.
For the most part every thing's pretty evenly lit. It could be a touch better, if I was a little more patient, but I was ready to be done!
The LEDs I used were LDF200CWR3KF's from LEDTronics: [url]http://www.netdisty.net/ds/ld120cwr/[/url]
To get nice even lighting on the Odometer LCD, I used 2 LEDs, and made sure that they pointed *away* from the LCD... basically all the light is reflected onto the LCD from the white plastic around it. I used the same technique on the A/C controls.
Now all I need to do is saw out the light bulbs in my Autometer gauges for LEDs... or just sell them and get the new Omori's that have RGB variable lighting... In fact, using tri-color LEDs and pots for *all* the gauges might be an interesting project.. theny you can change all the lighting to whatever you want!
Here's a link to all the pics I took during the installation: [url]http://www.doink.net/gallery/index.php?gallery=//gallery/Doink%20WRX/Red%20Dash%20Lighting[/url]
--Scott
[IMG]http://www.doink.net/images/misc/red%20dash%20small.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.doink.net/images/misc/red%20instruments%20left%20small.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.doink.net/images/misc/red%20instruments%20right%20small.jpg[/IMG]
I used a bunch of 2V discrete LEDs and wired them in serial to add up to 12V... so that's 6 of 'em. In some spots I used less than 6 in a group, and an appropriate resistor to even things up.
For the most part every thing's pretty evenly lit. It could be a touch better, if I was a little more patient, but I was ready to be done!
The LEDs I used were LDF200CWR3KF's from LEDTronics: [url]http://www.netdisty.net/ds/ld120cwr/[/url]
To get nice even lighting on the Odometer LCD, I used 2 LEDs, and made sure that they pointed *away* from the LCD... basically all the light is reflected onto the LCD from the white plastic around it. I used the same technique on the A/C controls.
Now all I need to do is saw out the light bulbs in my Autometer gauges for LEDs... or just sell them and get the new Omori's that have RGB variable lighting... In fact, using tri-color LEDs and pots for *all* the gauges might be an interesting project.. theny you can change all the lighting to whatever you want!
Here's a link to all the pics I took during the installation: [url]http://www.doink.net/gallery/index.php?gallery=//gallery/Doink%20WRX/Red%20Dash%20Lighting[/url]
--Scott
[IMG]http://www.doink.net/images/misc/red%20dash%20small.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.doink.net/images/misc/red%20instruments%20left%20small.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.doink.net/images/misc/red%20instruments%20right%20small.jpg[/IMG]
| MrKeg | 01-01-2003 11:10 AM |
Wow!
That looks incredible! :eek:
Great work.
Great work.
| nhluhr | 01-01-2003 07:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sperry [/i]
[B]
Tada: [url]http://www.bit-tech.net/article/68/[/url]
the web is amazing.
--Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
ok well that little online calc gave me the exact results I calculated. I guess i am doing okay here :)
[B]
Tada: [url]http://www.bit-tech.net/article/68/[/url]
the web is amazing.
--Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
ok well that little online calc gave me the exact results I calculated. I guess i am doing okay here :)
| jcblack | 01-01-2003 09:24 PM |
want to really get attention? wire a red, blue, and a green led to each position, each color on a seperate dimmer. You could have virtually any color.
| nhluhr | 01-01-2003 11:01 PM |
so I put 1 of the radioshack superbright blue LEDs (276-316) in series with a 560ohm resistor in each position and it's not very bright. It's just about at the right illumination if i turn the dial all the way to the max... i think you really need two in each position, but these LEDs are $3.99 a pop.
| sperry | 01-02-2003 12:28 AM |
Thanks for the comments!
The pictures don't really do it justice, at night everything looks super nice! But today, at around dusk, I switched on the lights, and I was pretty disapointed. When there's still dim sunlight out, the red's very washed out and uneven! It looks like it has to do with the shallow angle of light from LEDs.
The LEDs I used are like 120 deg, but that's still very narrow compared to a light bulb, which projects even light in all directions. So you have to arrange them in arrays to point in all the directions you need them to shine. I wish somone would make a nice bulb replacement LED that has multiple chips aranged in all directions!
To use the discrete LEDs in the instruments like I did takes a lot of soldering and patience... it's a lot like building a ship in a bottle. I had to add one led at a time, and solder it to its neighbor in series. It was kind of a PITA, and after seeing it in the daylight being so uneven, I'm thinking red bulb condoms may look better, albeit more orange-ish. Considering the dash is designed with clear plastic reflectors that expect light from a bulb, I think using LEDs might just be more work than it's worth to get the equivalent lighting quality.
For the people who've asked: I ordered an even 60 LEDs ($25 min from netdisty). And I ended up using them all... literally, I was down to my last one in the bag with one left to install!
Here's the break-down:
3 behind the tach,
6 in the shared tach/speedo lamp,
3 behind the speedo,
2 behind the odometer LCD,
2 behind the H2O temp,
2 behind the gas gauge,
1 in the cruise switch,
1 in the fog switch,
1 in my driving lights switch,
7 in the stereo,
and finally
12 in the A/C (two loops of 6)
so that's 41 LEDs... plus the the 19 I broke, fried or lost (hehe) is 60 total.
On a 12V system, 6 LEDs in series need no resistors. In the spots where I had less than 6 LEDs in series, I used the appropriate resistor.
I'll prolly keep is like this for a bit and see if the dusk issue really bothers me, cuz it was a ton of tedious, ship-in-a-bottle work, and it does look phenominal at night!
--Scott
The pictures don't really do it justice, at night everything looks super nice! But today, at around dusk, I switched on the lights, and I was pretty disapointed. When there's still dim sunlight out, the red's very washed out and uneven! It looks like it has to do with the shallow angle of light from LEDs.
The LEDs I used are like 120 deg, but that's still very narrow compared to a light bulb, which projects even light in all directions. So you have to arrange them in arrays to point in all the directions you need them to shine. I wish somone would make a nice bulb replacement LED that has multiple chips aranged in all directions!
To use the discrete LEDs in the instruments like I did takes a lot of soldering and patience... it's a lot like building a ship in a bottle. I had to add one led at a time, and solder it to its neighbor in series. It was kind of a PITA, and after seeing it in the daylight being so uneven, I'm thinking red bulb condoms may look better, albeit more orange-ish. Considering the dash is designed with clear plastic reflectors that expect light from a bulb, I think using LEDs might just be more work than it's worth to get the equivalent lighting quality.
For the people who've asked: I ordered an even 60 LEDs ($25 min from netdisty). And I ended up using them all... literally, I was down to my last one in the bag with one left to install!
Here's the break-down:
3 behind the tach,
6 in the shared tach/speedo lamp,
3 behind the speedo,
2 behind the odometer LCD,
2 behind the H2O temp,
2 behind the gas gauge,
1 in the cruise switch,
1 in the fog switch,
1 in my driving lights switch,
7 in the stereo,
and finally
12 in the A/C (two loops of 6)
so that's 41 LEDs... plus the the 19 I broke, fried or lost (hehe) is 60 total.
On a 12V system, 6 LEDs in series need no resistors. In the spots where I had less than 6 LEDs in series, I used the appropriate resistor.
I'll prolly keep is like this for a bit and see if the dusk issue really bothers me, cuz it was a ton of tedious, ship-in-a-bottle work, and it does look phenominal at night!
--Scott
| sperry | 01-02-2003 12:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jcblack [/i]
[B]want to really get attention? wire a red, blue, and a green led to each position, each color on a seperate dimmer. You could have virtually any color. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, there are people selling TriColor LEDs that have a R G and B diode in a single LED... with 4 contacts, R G and B Cathodes and a common Anode.
[url]http://www.lc-led.com/View.jsp?idProduct=154[/url]
I think that's what's in the new Omori gauges, since it comes with a set of RGB pots to adjust the gauge's color.
[url]http://www.omori-na.com/backlighting.htm[/url]
It'd be sweet to use these in the dash, but the wiring and cost would be nuts! Plus, as I found out at dusk today, the lighting quality from LEDs in a dash that expects light bulbs is less than perfect.
--Scott
[B]want to really get attention? wire a red, blue, and a green led to each position, each color on a seperate dimmer. You could have virtually any color. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, there are people selling TriColor LEDs that have a R G and B diode in a single LED... with 4 contacts, R G and B Cathodes and a common Anode.
[url]http://www.lc-led.com/View.jsp?idProduct=154[/url]
I think that's what's in the new Omori gauges, since it comes with a set of RGB pots to adjust the gauge's color.
[url]http://www.omori-na.com/backlighting.htm[/url]
It'd be sweet to use these in the dash, but the wiring and cost would be nuts! Plus, as I found out at dusk today, the lighting quality from LEDs in a dash that expects light bulbs is less than perfect.
--Scott
| DragonRM | 01-02-2003 12:56 AM |
those tri color are awesome...
any clue as to ways to make an adjuster for them like the second link? I know enough about lighting to put in a resistor and an led but not about adjusting...
any clue as to ways to make an adjuster for them like the second link? I know enough about lighting to put in a resistor and an led but not about adjusting...
| nhluhr | 01-02-2003 01:11 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sperry [/i]
[B]On a 12V system, 6 LEDs in series need no resistors.
--Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
okay but does that mean the first LED in the series is going to be bright and the last one will be dim? Seems like there would be a voltage drop across each one so decreasing amounts of power would be dissipated in each one as it goes down the line...
[B]On a 12V system, 6 LEDs in series need no resistors.
--Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
okay but does that mean the first LED in the series is going to be bright and the last one will be dim? Seems like there would be a voltage drop across each one so decreasing amounts of power would be dissipated in each one as it goes down the line...
| ImprezedRS | 01-02-2003 02:18 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nhluhr [/i]
[B]so I put 1 of the radioshack superbright blue LEDs (276-316) in series with a 560ohm resistor in each position and it's not very bright. It's just about at the right illumination if i turn the dial all the way to the max... i think you really need two in each position, but these LEDs are $3.99 a pop. [/B][/QUOTE]
Use a 220 ohm resistor and it will be super brite, that is what mine is wired to
[B]so I put 1 of the radioshack superbright blue LEDs (276-316) in series with a 560ohm resistor in each position and it's not very bright. It's just about at the right illumination if i turn the dial all the way to the max... i think you really need two in each position, but these LEDs are $3.99 a pop. [/B][/QUOTE]
Use a 220 ohm resistor and it will be super brite, that is what mine is wired to
| sperry | 01-02-2003 12:46 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DragonRM [/i]
[B]those tri color are awesome...
any clue as to ways to make an adjuster for them like the second link? I know enough about lighting to put in a resistor and an led but not about adjusting... [/B][/QUOTE]
A potentiometer is just a variable resistor... basically, as you turn the knob you change the resistance going to the LED, thereby changing the brightness.
Using one pot per diode allows you to change the RGB components individually, thereby allowing you to pick the final output color.
Pot are wired just like resistors, in serial before the LED's annode. Don't forget to put the correct resistor between the pot and the LED because the pot can be adjusted to 0 ohms, allowing full power thru to the LED!
--Scott
[B]those tri color are awesome...
any clue as to ways to make an adjuster for them like the second link? I know enough about lighting to put in a resistor and an led but not about adjusting... [/B][/QUOTE]
A potentiometer is just a variable resistor... basically, as you turn the knob you change the resistance going to the LED, thereby changing the brightness.
Using one pot per diode allows you to change the RGB components individually, thereby allowing you to pick the final output color.
Pot are wired just like resistors, in serial before the LED's annode. Don't forget to put the correct resistor between the pot and the LED because the pot can be adjusted to 0 ohms, allowing full power thru to the LED!
--Scott
| sperry | 01-02-2003 12:50 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nhluhr [/i]
[B]
okay but does that mean the first LED in the series is going to be bright and the last one will be dim? Seems like there would be a voltage drop across each one so decreasing amounts of power would be dissipated in each one as it goes down the line... [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep there's a vltage drop after each one... but they need only 2V to be max bright. Basically the 1st one is at max and drops the voltage by 2V, then the next takes its 2V, then the next... the last one in series (#6) uses up the last 2V to be max bright... so in the end they're all evenly bright!
The "water-hose" analogy is pretty useful for thinking about circuits, but it's not totally accurate. LEDs in serial are not the same as say a fuel rail with injectors that get slightly different pressure.
--Scott
[B]
okay but does that mean the first LED in the series is going to be bright and the last one will be dim? Seems like there would be a voltage drop across each one so decreasing amounts of power would be dissipated in each one as it goes down the line... [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep there's a vltage drop after each one... but they need only 2V to be max bright. Basically the 1st one is at max and drops the voltage by 2V, then the next takes its 2V, then the next... the last one in series (#6) uses up the last 2V to be max bright... so in the end they're all evenly bright!
The "water-hose" analogy is pretty useful for thinking about circuits, but it's not totally accurate. LEDs in serial are not the same as say a fuel rail with injectors that get slightly different pressure.
--Scott
| sperry | 01-02-2003 01:03 PM |
Someone asked me in a PM about swapping the FATT's color from green to red. I figured I'd share the answer with all.
The FATT already has red LEDs in it, that is uses during countdown. I modded the wiring so when the TT tries to light the green LEDs, now it lights the reds and vice versa:
[IMG]http://www.doink.net/images/misc/FATT turbo timer color swap mod.jpg[/IMG]
This requires some intricate soldering... so make sure your iron is nice and sharp! You also need some fine wire (22 gauge or smaller) and an exacto knife.
If you know anything about circuit boards, you should take the time to figure out the lighting circuit before doing this, so if you screw something up you'll be able to fix it. Basically there's two sets of 3 LEDs in serial, in parallel. Each LED has a red and a green side.
First solder new traces indicated by the green lines. Then cut the existing traces indicated by the red lines by scratching with the exacto. Make sure to use a meter to check all yer work.
Now, when the greens are supposed to light, the reds do, and vice versa... so the normal color is red, and the counting color is green.
--Scott
The FATT already has red LEDs in it, that is uses during countdown. I modded the wiring so when the TT tries to light the green LEDs, now it lights the reds and vice versa:
[IMG]http://www.doink.net/images/misc/FATT turbo timer color swap mod.jpg[/IMG]
This requires some intricate soldering... so make sure your iron is nice and sharp! You also need some fine wire (22 gauge or smaller) and an exacto knife.
If you know anything about circuit boards, you should take the time to figure out the lighting circuit before doing this, so if you screw something up you'll be able to fix it. Basically there's two sets of 3 LEDs in serial, in parallel. Each LED has a red and a green side.
First solder new traces indicated by the green lines. Then cut the existing traces indicated by the red lines by scratching with the exacto. Make sure to use a meter to check all yer work.
Now, when the greens are supposed to light, the reds do, and vice versa... so the normal color is red, and the counting color is green.
--Scott
| silvertoy | 01-02-2003 01:39 PM |
I've been asking this question elsewhere but I thought I would try adding it in here as well. I've completed swapping out all of the bulb covers from green to red and even managed to squeeze in some led's into the switches, so the only thing I have left to change is the color of the factory boost gauge, which, right now, is white.
Could someone tell me how to remove the rubber cover around the gauge and does anyone know what kind of bulb is in there, will I be able to use another bulb cover, or is it a much different size than the 3mm and 5mm bulbs I've encountered thus far?
Thanks
Could someone tell me how to remove the rubber cover around the gauge and does anyone know what kind of bulb is in there, will I be able to use another bulb cover, or is it a much different size than the 3mm and 5mm bulbs I've encountered thus far?
Thanks
| sperry | 01-02-2003 01:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by silvertoy [/i]
[B]I've completed swapping out all of the bulb covers from green to red[/B][/QUOTE]
How's it look? Any pics? I'm thinking about trying to squeeze some red condomed bulbs in there with the LEDs to even things out.
Also, where'd you get the red bulb condoms?
--Scott
[B]I've completed swapping out all of the bulb covers from green to red[/B][/QUOTE]
How's it look? Any pics? I'm thinking about trying to squeeze some red condomed bulbs in there with the LEDs to even things out.
Also, where'd you get the red bulb condoms?
--Scott
| nhluhr | 01-02-2003 04:55 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sperry [/i]
[B]
How's it look? Any pics? I'm thinking about trying to squeeze some red condomed bulbs in there with the LEDs to even things out.
Also, where'd you get the red bulb condoms?
--Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah where'd you get them? did they have blue condoms too?
[B]
How's it look? Any pics? I'm thinking about trying to squeeze some red condomed bulbs in there with the LEDs to even things out.
Also, where'd you get the red bulb condoms?
--Scott [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah where'd you get them? did they have blue condoms too?
| nhluhr | 01-02-2003 05:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ImprezedRS [/i]
[B]
Use a 220 ohm resistor and it will be super brite, that is what mine is wired to [/B][/QUOTE]
if you use a 220ohm resistor and the alternator is supplying 14.4 volts, you'll be sending 10V directly to the LED. Most LEDs are going to burn out at that voltage.
[B]
Use a 220 ohm resistor and it will be super brite, that is what mine is wired to [/B][/QUOTE]
if you use a 220ohm resistor and the alternator is supplying 14.4 volts, you'll be sending 10V directly to the LED. Most LEDs are going to burn out at that voltage.
| Tobey | 01-02-2003 05:48 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nhluhr [/i]
[B]
yeah where'd you get them? did they have blue condoms too? [/B][/QUOTE]
if you use blue condoms with a reg light bulb the yellow from the light makes a blue/green light, not the bright blue you are probably aiming for. i had indiglos in my eclipse and changed all the lighting condoms to blue HOPING it would look like the vw blue, but in the end it matched the indiglo gauges perfectly. this was my experience only, maybe super white bulbs would change that?
thanks for posting the t/t how to!!
[B]
yeah where'd you get them? did they have blue condoms too? [/B][/QUOTE]
if you use blue condoms with a reg light bulb the yellow from the light makes a blue/green light, not the bright blue you are probably aiming for. i had indiglos in my eclipse and changed all the lighting condoms to blue HOPING it would look like the vw blue, but in the end it matched the indiglo gauges perfectly. this was my experience only, maybe super white bulbs would change that?
thanks for posting the t/t how to!!
| sperry | 01-02-2003 06:10 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tobey [/i]
[B]thanks for posting the t/t how to!! [/B][/QUOTE]
No problem! Now help me find a place that sells bulb condoms!!
check this out:
[url]http://www.gatorpictures.com/Miata/RedLights/[/url]
is it just me or are the innards of the Miata dash almost exactly the same as the WRX?
--Scott
[B]thanks for posting the t/t how to!! [/B][/QUOTE]
No problem! Now help me find a place that sells bulb condoms!!
check this out:
[url]http://www.gatorpictures.com/Miata/RedLights/[/url]
is it just me or are the innards of the Miata dash almost exactly the same as the WRX?
--Scott
| silvertoy | 01-02-2003 07:07 PM |
It looks pretty darn good IMO. Pics, well no, sorry, my digital cam is old and just not up to the task. Bear in mind I didn't swap and head unit lights out, my factory HU is on E-bay right now. My new HU has red illumination, so it works for me. I can give some tips though.
-The best place to get them from is [URL=http://www.partsexpress.com ]www.partsexpress.com [/URL] Do a search for lamp covers.
-The 2 HVAC bulbs use the 5mm (.2") covers
-There were 2 different kinds of bulbs behind the dash, 3mm (.12") and more of the 5mm (.2")
-I refer to them as .12" and .2" because that's what you need to order from partsexpress. You can get, red, green, yellow and blue colors. You'll need to order 1 package of the 3 mm and 2 packages of the 5 mm, the packages have 10 condoms each. I have more on order because I didn't have enough 5mm to finish the job, along w/ some blue just out of curiousity. If' you're afraid you'll mess up or not like it, buy some green ones and put green back on if you don't like the new color. I wanted a red/orange combo personally (orange needles orange odometer, red gauges) so I am ordering some yellow to put over the red in places to see how that looks. I need to find out which bulbs light which things so I can play around.
-***IMPORTANT*** I used the red at first and was very unhappy with the color, it was a pinkish, not quite red color... the solution... Use 2 condoms, and presto, you have a deep red, that looks very pleasing to the eye (using 2 blue condoms instead of 1 might fix the problem someone said about getting a teal color instead of blue, but I'll let you know because I just ordered the blue as well just for the heck of it (they're only $1.70 for a pack of 10)
The Bad: The needles do not come out very orange as I had hoped, they are not far off from the color of the gauges. The little blue dot designating cold on your HVAC will also appear a shade of red, although different from the shade of red dot.
-The best place to get them from is [URL=http://www.partsexpress.com ]www.partsexpress.com [/URL] Do a search for lamp covers.
-The 2 HVAC bulbs use the 5mm (.2") covers
-There were 2 different kinds of bulbs behind the dash, 3mm (.12") and more of the 5mm (.2")
-I refer to them as .12" and .2" because that's what you need to order from partsexpress. You can get, red, green, yellow and blue colors. You'll need to order 1 package of the 3 mm and 2 packages of the 5 mm, the packages have 10 condoms each. I have more on order because I didn't have enough 5mm to finish the job, along w/ some blue just out of curiousity. If' you're afraid you'll mess up or not like it, buy some green ones and put green back on if you don't like the new color. I wanted a red/orange combo personally (orange needles orange odometer, red gauges) so I am ordering some yellow to put over the red in places to see how that looks. I need to find out which bulbs light which things so I can play around.
-***IMPORTANT*** I used the red at first and was very unhappy with the color, it was a pinkish, not quite red color... the solution... Use 2 condoms, and presto, you have a deep red, that looks very pleasing to the eye (using 2 blue condoms instead of 1 might fix the problem someone said about getting a teal color instead of blue, but I'll let you know because I just ordered the blue as well just for the heck of it (they're only $1.70 for a pack of 10)
The Bad: The needles do not come out very orange as I had hoped, they are not far off from the color of the gauges. The little blue dot designating cold on your HVAC will also appear a shade of red, although different from the shade of red dot.
| sperry | 01-02-2003 07:16 PM |
Thanks for the info SilverToy!
I've already got all those red LEDs in there, so if the bulb color's a bit orange, I'm not stressing it. I'm just looking to get some nice even light in there to supplement the LEDs.
--Scott
I've already got all those red LEDs in there, so if the bulb color's a bit orange, I'm not stressing it. I'm just looking to get some nice even light in there to supplement the LEDs.
--Scott
| silvertoy | 01-02-2003 09:37 PM |
Don't get me wrong, everything is deep red, including the needles. :)
| ImprezedRS | 01-03-2003 04:19 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by nhluhr [/i]
[B]
if you use a 220ohm resistor and the alternator is supplying 14.4 volts, you'll be sending 10V directly to the LED. Most LEDs are going to burn out at that voltage. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well that is what I'm running mine with and I have yet to have a problem with it so I will keep it that way and see how long they last, so far they have been in there about a month and no problems yet other than one came disconnected, I got to resolder it back to the board.
[B]
if you use a 220ohm resistor and the alternator is supplying 14.4 volts, you'll be sending 10V directly to the LED. Most LEDs are going to burn out at that voltage. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well that is what I'm running mine with and I have yet to have a problem with it so I will keep it that way and see how long they last, so far they have been in there about a month and no problems yet other than one came disconnected, I got to resolder it back to the board.
| silvertoy | 01-05-2003 01:01 AM |
:( Can no-one answer my Boost Gauge illumination woes? :p Maybe I'll just take some magic marker and color the glass in? Heheh. No but seriously, does anyone know how to get the stock column mounted boost gauge apart so I can change the light color inside? Does someone have one they removed that they could dissasemble and see what kind of bulb is inside? Thanks.
| banman | 01-05-2003 01:26 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MrKeg [/i]
[B]
Your understanding of the configuration is correct. I forgot to mention that there is a 10 ohm resistor in series to trim the current in each leg to 22mA. (20mA is the optimal current)
Each LED in the array is equally bright. The whole idea of using a 3x array is to get the voltage drops across each LED to add up to 12V. So if you have a nominal drop of 3.85V at each LED and a .44V drop across the resistor, you have 3.85 + 3.85 + 3.85 + .44 = 11.99V. Because the current through each LED (.22mA) is the same, the voltage drops are the same and therefore the brightness is the same.
The picture I attached was of an array I used to replace my map lights. In this application, I wanted the light to be focused. When I want diffuse light, I drill the top of the LED to make it concave rather than convex. This works well. I also have hot glued diffuser grating from fluorescent lighting to the LED domes.
I have made arrays of 2, 3, 4 and 6 LEDs. The advantage of using arrays of 3 in series is that you can add as many as you want in parallel (6, 9, 12 . . . .) as long as you trim the current with the series resistor.
BTW, a 6x array costs less than $8 to make.
-MrKeg[/QUOTE]
MrKeg,
I'm doing a similar sort of setup to replace my maplights, only I'm using red LED's instead of white/blue. Do you find that the resistor and LED's heat up quite a bit? I'm using a 10 ohm 2W resistor, and when testing it with a 12VDC power supply, it gets quite warm after only a minute or so . . .
BTW - I'm using 150 mcd 2.0V "Hi-Efficiency" LED's from Active Electronics.
[B]
Your understanding of the configuration is correct. I forgot to mention that there is a 10 ohm resistor in series to trim the current in each leg to 22mA. (20mA is the optimal current)
Each LED in the array is equally bright. The whole idea of using a 3x array is to get the voltage drops across each LED to add up to 12V. So if you have a nominal drop of 3.85V at each LED and a .44V drop across the resistor, you have 3.85 + 3.85 + 3.85 + .44 = 11.99V. Because the current through each LED (.22mA) is the same, the voltage drops are the same and therefore the brightness is the same.
The picture I attached was of an array I used to replace my map lights. In this application, I wanted the light to be focused. When I want diffuse light, I drill the top of the LED to make it concave rather than convex. This works well. I also have hot glued diffuser grating from fluorescent lighting to the LED domes.
I have made arrays of 2, 3, 4 and 6 LEDs. The advantage of using arrays of 3 in series is that you can add as many as you want in parallel (6, 9, 12 . . . .) as long as you trim the current with the series resistor.
BTW, a 6x array costs less than $8 to make.
-MrKeg[/QUOTE]
MrKeg,
I'm doing a similar sort of setup to replace my maplights, only I'm using red LED's instead of white/blue. Do you find that the resistor and LED's heat up quite a bit? I'm using a 10 ohm 2W resistor, and when testing it with a 12VDC power supply, it gets quite warm after only a minute or so . . .
BTW - I'm using 150 mcd 2.0V "Hi-Efficiency" LED's from Active Electronics.
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