| Dizmal | 03-05-2007 11:09 AM |
[quote=WRXDriftR;17260353]I don't see a problem with including a shift knob where the subject material is based on... a shift knob. Especially where this thread was created by one of my customers.
Id rather not spend my time defending myself anymore :lol:[/quote]
Heh, I can agree on that. Somewhat!
I created a thread not too long ago about my voodoo and you posted your products in it. It's not always called for.
[quote=Kahres05;17260365]Dismal, Is the voodoo knob a direct fit...will it screw right on and be nice an tight to the leather boot?....If it's a direct fit..I'll try one of those, I have to agree, the price for those are fair.[/quote]
Yup, it's a direct fit. No plastic adapter like my STi one had. It screws right on and as you can see in my picture. The boot fits up nicely to it. I love it!
Id rather not spend my time defending myself anymore :lol:[/quote]
Heh, I can agree on that. Somewhat!
I created a thread not too long ago about my voodoo and you posted your products in it. It's not always called for.
[quote=Kahres05;17260365]Dismal, Is the voodoo knob a direct fit...will it screw right on and be nice an tight to the leather boot?....If it's a direct fit..I'll try one of those, I have to agree, the price for those are fair.[/quote]
Yup, it's a direct fit. No plastic adapter like my STi one had. It screws right on and as you can see in my picture. The boot fits up nicely to it. I love it!
| Kahres05 | 03-05-2007 11:16 AM |
That's great...., If I do change shift knobs, thats the direction I'm heading.
| Drubber` | 03-05-2007 12:28 PM |
chris m-
big props to what you're doing here. my shop has some old hardinge's in the back that i'm gonna cut up a shift knob for my subby on. already have several plain old aluminum knobs for my hotrods but was thinking for my subby i'd get a hunk of ebony wood(talk about rare...) and machine that into a nice round ball like some of what you got pictured here. which brings me to the reason i'm posting. just an idea but maybe you could try some knobs made outa wood or other natural resources to fit with the "VIP" trend that's about to hit our shores ;) like i said just an idea *shrugs* take or leave it.
randolph-rs
what are you worried this guy on his little hand cranker is gonna take your orders? :P hehe just joking since you're CNC i'm assuming you'll get it :devil: heck if we really wanted to go cheap and dirty we could pay you to cut our mold and then fill it with some pot metal then have some asain kid polish it up and rattle can the finish on and vola! 2.99 ebay specials!
big props to what you're doing here. my shop has some old hardinge's in the back that i'm gonna cut up a shift knob for my subby on. already have several plain old aluminum knobs for my hotrods but was thinking for my subby i'd get a hunk of ebony wood(talk about rare...) and machine that into a nice round ball like some of what you got pictured here. which brings me to the reason i'm posting. just an idea but maybe you could try some knobs made outa wood or other natural resources to fit with the "VIP" trend that's about to hit our shores ;) like i said just an idea *shrugs* take or leave it.
randolph-rs
what are you worried this guy on his little hand cranker is gonna take your orders? :P hehe just joking since you're CNC i'm assuming you'll get it :devil: heck if we really wanted to go cheap and dirty we could pay you to cut our mold and then fill it with some pot metal then have some asain kid polish it up and rattle can the finish on and vola! 2.99 ebay specials!
| WRXDriftR | 03-05-2007 12:45 PM |
I've been thinking about the wood pieces, but I just can't see people with Imprezas putting wood shiftknobs in their cars. Its more of a luxury option... [I]maybe[/I] on the LGT but thats about it IMO.
Dont make fun of the hand cranker! :) It's my grandfathers machine which was bought by him in the 1950's and still works perfectly. Talk about some good old fashioned American machinery combined with German engineering knowhow. I learn something new every day, so that alone is worth the effort.
~Chris
Dont make fun of the hand cranker! :) It's my grandfathers machine which was bought by him in the 1950's and still works perfectly. Talk about some good old fashioned American machinery combined with German engineering knowhow. I learn something new every day, so that alone is worth the effort.
~Chris
| StE823 | 03-05-2007 06:43 PM |
[QUOTE=Roo;17255178]That looks like a nice knock-off of a design that's been in the Forester community for quite some time. Even the rubber 'O' rings part has been done.
[img]http://www.subaruforester.org/modimages/roo/Knob1.jpg[/img]
I'm sure he's talented enough to come up with some rather creative designs of his own. These pictured are for the 4EAT equipped vehicles, and the same design has been made for the 5MT as well...
:) :) :)[/QUOTE]
oh god, this is one dirty knob....
[img]http://www.subaruforester.org/modimages/roo/Knob1.jpg[/img]
I'm sure he's talented enough to come up with some rather creative designs of his own. These pictured are for the 4EAT equipped vehicles, and the same design has been made for the 5MT as well...
:) :) :)[/QUOTE]
oh god, this is one dirty knob....
| ripvw | 03-06-2007 04:26 AM |
:cool: [QUOTE=WRXDriftR;17260353]I don't see a problem with including a shift knob where the subject material is based on... a shift knob. Especially where this thread was created by one of my customers. [/QUOTE]wow, I go away for a week and find out my little thread on a shiftknob has taken on a life of it's own...
1. It's MY thread about MY shiftknob created by Chris, so he is indeed perfectly welcome to post pictures and details about his work, especially since he provides a unique service to our community - custom shiftknobs made by hand.
2. I considered the Voodoo - nice simple design, no "advertising" - but rejected it for several reasons:
- made of metal, so probably heavier than the oem WRX knob
- made of metal, so possibly cold in winter/hot in summer, a point that Dismal makes in his review on the Voodoo
- while having a Voodoo in a Subie would be somewhat unique, there are about 8 billion Miatas running around with Voodoo's in them. Indeed, the Voodoo is so popular with the Mazda crowd that some owners choose not to get one since everyone else has one.
- finally, Chris is a Subie owner and makes products for this community, sold through one of our best NASIOC vendors TIC. The Voodoo guys support the Mazda community, but are not associated with Subaru in any way unlike Prodrive and Prova. Personally, I'd rather buy a product that has ties to my choice of car, not someone else's. (Although I do like Mazdas, especially the Miata, RX7 and RX8)
- I think that the Voodoo looks good in Dizmal's car, is a great value @ $33, but in Dizmal's own thread he talks about how it feels more numb than the STI knob he used to have as well as the fact the knob gets cold. Chris inserted a pic of the copolymer knob he makes as an alternative that is unaffected by heat and cold - and Dizmal stated that he thought the knob looked good and he would consider looking at one in the spring.
Hey Dizmal - I went through years with the oem and two aftermarket mass-produced knobs before I "saw the light" and went with Chris's copolymer beauty. I hope you like the Voodoo - but if you get tired of burning your hand on it in the summer - and don't want to throw a sock over it like the Miata guys do - give Chris a call.
as to the other comments about "knock-offs" - if you want Chris to make you a perfect copy of some other design he'll do it. He has his own unique designs as well as "classic" knobs like the one I bought, but the beauty of a custom handmade knob is that you call the shots, not some nameless manufacturer.
Hell, Dizmal could send him the Voodoo and Chris will make him a copolymer version of it - now that would be unique and maybe an idea for Chris to "invade" the Mazda community. I can see Voodoo shaking in their boots as dozens of Chris's knobs flood the Miata market over the next year...gotta love handmade. :cool:
1. It's MY thread about MY shiftknob created by Chris, so he is indeed perfectly welcome to post pictures and details about his work, especially since he provides a unique service to our community - custom shiftknobs made by hand.
2. I considered the Voodoo - nice simple design, no "advertising" - but rejected it for several reasons:
- made of metal, so probably heavier than the oem WRX knob
- made of metal, so possibly cold in winter/hot in summer, a point that Dismal makes in his review on the Voodoo
- while having a Voodoo in a Subie would be somewhat unique, there are about 8 billion Miatas running around with Voodoo's in them. Indeed, the Voodoo is so popular with the Mazda crowd that some owners choose not to get one since everyone else has one.
- finally, Chris is a Subie owner and makes products for this community, sold through one of our best NASIOC vendors TIC. The Voodoo guys support the Mazda community, but are not associated with Subaru in any way unlike Prodrive and Prova. Personally, I'd rather buy a product that has ties to my choice of car, not someone else's. (Although I do like Mazdas, especially the Miata, RX7 and RX8)
- I think that the Voodoo looks good in Dizmal's car, is a great value @ $33, but in Dizmal's own thread he talks about how it feels more numb than the STI knob he used to have as well as the fact the knob gets cold. Chris inserted a pic of the copolymer knob he makes as an alternative that is unaffected by heat and cold - and Dizmal stated that he thought the knob looked good and he would consider looking at one in the spring.
Hey Dizmal - I went through years with the oem and two aftermarket mass-produced knobs before I "saw the light" and went with Chris's copolymer beauty. I hope you like the Voodoo - but if you get tired of burning your hand on it in the summer - and don't want to throw a sock over it like the Miata guys do - give Chris a call.
as to the other comments about "knock-offs" - if you want Chris to make you a perfect copy of some other design he'll do it. He has his own unique designs as well as "classic" knobs like the one I bought, but the beauty of a custom handmade knob is that you call the shots, not some nameless manufacturer.
Hell, Dizmal could send him the Voodoo and Chris will make him a copolymer version of it - now that would be unique and maybe an idea for Chris to "invade" the Mazda community. I can see Voodoo shaking in their boots as dozens of Chris's knobs flood the Miata market over the next year...gotta love handmade. :cool:
| Impreza01 | 03-06-2007 04:38 AM |
[QUOTE=randolph-rs;17160892]If only I chose to sell my knobs here. Unfortunately mine are an exclusive to the Forester community. Had I known you guys love acetal. I hate to do it. I can't sell here so do not pm me.
I can only say that this knob is the perfect shift knob for me. Here is a teaser shot of my knob in delrin w/ shift pattern.
[IMG]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/Jami_S/shiftpatternblkdelrin.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
That's cold man, because I'd love to buy one if it also has a collar to hold up the leather.
I can only say that this knob is the perfect shift knob for me. Here is a teaser shot of my knob in delrin w/ shift pattern.
[IMG]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e192/Jami_S/shiftpatternblkdelrin.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
That's cold man, because I'd love to buy one if it also has a collar to hold up the leather.
| sauuce | 03-06-2007 06:11 AM |
I'm not in the market for a new knob, but are there any complaints about the stock STI knob? I never got to drive around with an aftermarket knob. I wanna know what all the buzz is about.
Alex
Alex
| ekw | 03-06-2007 08:20 AM |
if you like the way the stocker fits your hand, then it is a good knob.
the leather keeps it from transferring heat or cold to you hand in summer and winter.
the aftermarket shift knob 'market' is fueled by people who either don't like the way their stock knob feels (too big, too small, bad shape) or the way it looks (too boring, too plain, whatever)
there are also people who feel that a heavier (or lighter) knob gives them smoother/faster shifts (or a better feel).
it's kind of like shoes/sneakers/boots/sandals etc.
no one can tell you what will fit you best.
and there is really no way for you to tell w/o trying some out.
see if any of your local crew has some variants you can try.
I tried out a WC Lathe Werks Aluminum ball and piston style for my STi,
and bought the ball.
the piston just did not fit my hand and the way I grip & shift well at all.
after I had that for a while, Chris started making the copolymer knobs,
and I decided to get the ball in black.
first, because I a slowly converting my interior to black, and I thought it would look better than the silver (to me, anyway).
also, because I thought the aluminum was pretty durn cold in the winter.
the leather keeps it from transferring heat or cold to you hand in summer and winter.
the aftermarket shift knob 'market' is fueled by people who either don't like the way their stock knob feels (too big, too small, bad shape) or the way it looks (too boring, too plain, whatever)
there are also people who feel that a heavier (or lighter) knob gives them smoother/faster shifts (or a better feel).
it's kind of like shoes/sneakers/boots/sandals etc.
no one can tell you what will fit you best.
and there is really no way for you to tell w/o trying some out.
see if any of your local crew has some variants you can try.
I tried out a WC Lathe Werks Aluminum ball and piston style for my STi,
and bought the ball.
the piston just did not fit my hand and the way I grip & shift well at all.
after I had that for a while, Chris started making the copolymer knobs,
and I decided to get the ball in black.
first, because I a slowly converting my interior to black, and I thought it would look better than the silver (to me, anyway).
also, because I thought the aluminum was pretty durn cold in the winter.
| Kahres05 | 03-06-2007 09:23 AM |
Ripvw, I hope you are getting a cut of Chris's money for promoting him that much. Some of us are just making a point that Chris's knobs are a little expensive for what you get. Yes, it's handmade, I'm sure the plastic knobs can be made in less than 30 minutes. I really dont care if it's cnc...cnc will assure there are no imperfections for the most part. We all agree Chris does nice work, I'm not faulting him for that. Like any business, there are competitors and usually the company that has the lowest price and the best value wins. His prices dont have to be as cheap as Voodoo but twice the price, you only have to laugh that somebody would actually pay for it. Just my opinion, but if Chris was to actually make these plastic knobs for 40 bucks a piece he really wouldent be able to keep up with his orders he would have so many. Even right know when you go to his website they are all sold out. My hat is off to Voodoo for welcoming our subi into there community.
| ray101381 | 03-06-2007 09:51 AM |
i just got my sphere knob from chris, although a bit pricey i feel it was worth every penny, my shifting feels much precise and i can FEEL what's goin on.
| Dizmal | 03-06-2007 10:33 AM |
[quote=ripvw;17271270]:cool: wow, I go away for a week and find out my little thread on a shiftknob has taken on a life of it's own...
1. It's MY thread about MY shiftknob created by Chris, so he is indeed perfectly welcome to post pictures and details about his work, especially since he provides a unique service to our community - custom shiftknobs made by hand.
2. I considered the Voodoo - nice simple design, no "advertising" - but rejected it for several reasons:
- made of metal, so probably heavier than the oem WRX knob
- made of metal, so possibly cold in winter/hot in summer, a point that Dismal makes in his review on the Voodoo
- while having a Voodoo in a Subie would be somewhat unique, there are about 8 billion Miatas running around with Voodoo's in them. Indeed, the Voodoo is so popular with the Mazda crowd that some owners choose not to get one since everyone else has one.
- finally, Chris is a Subie owner and makes products for this community, sold through one of our best NASIOC vendors TIC. The Voodoo guys support the Mazda community, but are not associated with Subaru in any way unlike Prodrive and Prova. Personally, I'd rather buy a product that has ties to my choice of car, not someone else's. (Although I do like Mazdas, especially the Miata, RX7 and RX8)
- I think that the Voodoo looks good in Dizmal's car, is a great value @ $33, but in Dizmal's own thread he talks about how it feels more numb than the STI knob he used to have as well as the fact the knob gets cold. Chris inserted a pic of the copolymer knob he makes as an alternative that is unaffected by heat and cold - and Dizmal stated that he thought the knob looked good and he would consider looking at one in the spring.
Hey Dizmal - I went through years with the oem and two aftermarket mass-produced knobs before I "saw the light" and went with Chris's copolymer beauty. I hope you like the Voodoo - but if you get tired of burning your hand on it in the summer - and don't want to throw a sock over it like the Miata guys do - give Chris a call.
as to the other comments about "knock-offs" - if you want Chris to make you a perfect copy of some other design he'll do it. He has his own unique designs as well as "classic" knobs like the one I bought, but the beauty of a custom handmade knob is that you call the shots, not some nameless manufacturer.
Hell, Dizmal could send him the Voodoo and Chris will make him a copolymer version of it - now that would be unique and maybe an idea for Chris to "invade" the Mazda community. I can see Voodoo shaking in their boots as dozens of Chris's knobs flood the Miata market over the next year...gotta love handmade. :cool:[/quote]
lol
Chris is a good guy with great knobs. No doubt. They just are out of what I personally consider worth it for a knob. Some people have no problems dropping $150+ on a shift knob, looking for that "holy grail". I am just not one of them.
The voodoo is perfect for me, price is right, size is right and I like the look. That's why I created the thread I did. I like the feel of the Voodoo. I like the added "numbness" it gives me. Because I want smooth shifts. I don't want to feel every single teeth of a gear engage when shifting like I was with the STi knob. It shifts like a hot knife through butter, smoother than my wife's wet poon!:lol: As I'm sure Chris's knobs do to!
The coldness isn't a factor, as I knew ahead of time that it would be the same, that was stated as a tongue in cheek comment:) If it bugs me enough, I'll go out and buy a baby sock. But I've lived with it for over a year with the STi knob.
As far as supporting Mazda or Subaru communities? We're all car enthusiasts. The Voodoo was created by 10 guys on a forum who share the same passion we do. Paying them or Chris isn't really helping or hurting either community. It may help TiC marginally, to buy Chris's knobs. But I have bought every bushing they have to offer. Except for their bushing part of the klunk killer. So I think I have supported them well:D
There are plenty of manufacturer's who cross manufacture for different auto manufacturer's. You are only limiting yourself when you stick to Subaru only people just for the fact that they are Subaru only. Even TiC and Subydude.com sells part for Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota etc.. I just buy what I see is the best value for me.
Either way you can't go wrong. Just depends on what you feel is worth it for a shift knob. If Chris was the same price as Voodoo. I would be happy to go through him. But at the end of the day, it's my wallet.
1. It's MY thread about MY shiftknob created by Chris, so he is indeed perfectly welcome to post pictures and details about his work, especially since he provides a unique service to our community - custom shiftknobs made by hand.
2. I considered the Voodoo - nice simple design, no "advertising" - but rejected it for several reasons:
- made of metal, so probably heavier than the oem WRX knob
- made of metal, so possibly cold in winter/hot in summer, a point that Dismal makes in his review on the Voodoo
- while having a Voodoo in a Subie would be somewhat unique, there are about 8 billion Miatas running around with Voodoo's in them. Indeed, the Voodoo is so popular with the Mazda crowd that some owners choose not to get one since everyone else has one.
- finally, Chris is a Subie owner and makes products for this community, sold through one of our best NASIOC vendors TIC. The Voodoo guys support the Mazda community, but are not associated with Subaru in any way unlike Prodrive and Prova. Personally, I'd rather buy a product that has ties to my choice of car, not someone else's. (Although I do like Mazdas, especially the Miata, RX7 and RX8)
- I think that the Voodoo looks good in Dizmal's car, is a great value @ $33, but in Dizmal's own thread he talks about how it feels more numb than the STI knob he used to have as well as the fact the knob gets cold. Chris inserted a pic of the copolymer knob he makes as an alternative that is unaffected by heat and cold - and Dizmal stated that he thought the knob looked good and he would consider looking at one in the spring.
Hey Dizmal - I went through years with the oem and two aftermarket mass-produced knobs before I "saw the light" and went with Chris's copolymer beauty. I hope you like the Voodoo - but if you get tired of burning your hand on it in the summer - and don't want to throw a sock over it like the Miata guys do - give Chris a call.
as to the other comments about "knock-offs" - if you want Chris to make you a perfect copy of some other design he'll do it. He has his own unique designs as well as "classic" knobs like the one I bought, but the beauty of a custom handmade knob is that you call the shots, not some nameless manufacturer.
Hell, Dizmal could send him the Voodoo and Chris will make him a copolymer version of it - now that would be unique and maybe an idea for Chris to "invade" the Mazda community. I can see Voodoo shaking in their boots as dozens of Chris's knobs flood the Miata market over the next year...gotta love handmade. :cool:[/quote]
lol
Chris is a good guy with great knobs. No doubt. They just are out of what I personally consider worth it for a knob. Some people have no problems dropping $150+ on a shift knob, looking for that "holy grail". I am just not one of them.
The voodoo is perfect for me, price is right, size is right and I like the look. That's why I created the thread I did. I like the feel of the Voodoo. I like the added "numbness" it gives me. Because I want smooth shifts. I don't want to feel every single teeth of a gear engage when shifting like I was with the STi knob. It shifts like a hot knife through butter, smoother than my wife's wet poon!:lol: As I'm sure Chris's knobs do to!
The coldness isn't a factor, as I knew ahead of time that it would be the same, that was stated as a tongue in cheek comment:) If it bugs me enough, I'll go out and buy a baby sock. But I've lived with it for over a year with the STi knob.
As far as supporting Mazda or Subaru communities? We're all car enthusiasts. The Voodoo was created by 10 guys on a forum who share the same passion we do. Paying them or Chris isn't really helping or hurting either community. It may help TiC marginally, to buy Chris's knobs. But I have bought every bushing they have to offer. Except for their bushing part of the klunk killer. So I think I have supported them well:D
There are plenty of manufacturer's who cross manufacture for different auto manufacturer's. You are only limiting yourself when you stick to Subaru only people just for the fact that they are Subaru only. Even TiC and Subydude.com sells part for Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota etc.. I just buy what I see is the best value for me.
Either way you can't go wrong. Just depends on what you feel is worth it for a shift knob. If Chris was the same price as Voodoo. I would be happy to go through him. But at the end of the day, it's my wallet.
| WRXDriftR | 03-06-2007 11:10 AM |
The wallet remains king of decision making in any aspect of our passions.
Right now, I am working on doing runs of 4-8 knobs at one time to cut down on the time to change tooling between each individual knob. With some more practice, I should be able to reduce machining time, which would result in reducing prices through TiC as well. We'll see what happens.
I give my honest thanks to the people who like my product and support me. For everyone in doubt, it seems as though there is an imaginary competition to be one by proving a point somewhere.
Its only a shift knob. I put personality into every piece and I try my best to bring something different to the only strangers I really ever interact with: Subie folk. But in the end, its just another option for your car. If you don't want one, nobody is forcing the issue.
~Chris M
WC LATHE WERKS
Right now, I am working on doing runs of 4-8 knobs at one time to cut down on the time to change tooling between each individual knob. With some more practice, I should be able to reduce machining time, which would result in reducing prices through TiC as well. We'll see what happens.
I give my honest thanks to the people who like my product and support me. For everyone in doubt, it seems as though there is an imaginary competition to be one by proving a point somewhere.
Its only a shift knob. I put personality into every piece and I try my best to bring something different to the only strangers I really ever interact with: Subie folk. But in the end, its just another option for your car. If you don't want one, nobody is forcing the issue.
~Chris M
WC LATHE WERKS
| Dizmal | 03-06-2007 11:45 AM |
Well hopefully you can get the process refined enough to the point where its just as profitable to sell them for $50!!
Wishfull thinking? Probably. I would like to support you and buy your products. But that wallet keeps telling me otherwise:(
Wishfull thinking? Probably. I would like to support you and buy your products. But that wallet keeps telling me otherwise:(
| Turn in Concepts | 03-06-2007 04:20 PM |
Guys -
I want to say a couple of things here.
First off, for those of you that don't know TiC, we started very small, with only one part to offer. Heck in the grand scheme of things we're still very very very small. Because of this we realize how incredibly expensive a vendor account can be. That is why we created the CGCI program. We saw some folks coming up with some very high quality parts based upon what we felt were really good ideas. The problem is these guys didn't have any good way to get their part on the market, and share their ideas with the community due to vendor account costs. Now, the question has come up with pricing and as such I'm sure folks are going to wonder more and more what TiC's cut is, and if that is inflating the price. I will tell you right now [B]exactly[/B] how much we make off each sale of a CGCI part.
$0. Zero dollars. Not one penny. Period. In other words, we don't take a cut, and thus drive up the price.
Second thing, pricing. Chris is new to this whole thing of running his own show, and as such has come to us on occasion to ask our opinion on pricing. We have offered guidance that I hope is helpful. Given Chris' parts we feel that the pricing is appropriate. Will there be cheaper alternatives out there? Yes. There always will be. Heck, we fight that battle [B]every single time[/B] we bring out a new part. That's just the way it is. Now, Chris recently came to me asking about pricing based upon this thread. My opinion was this: do not change pricing.
Here's why - what Chris is doing, turning these by hand, and taking his valuable time (and believe me, a person's time is valuable) to offer these to the Subaru community is a good thing. Not just for us, the community, but overall. In his making these by hand he is continuing what is rapidly becoming, in this day and age of CNC parts, a lost artform. Trust me, when we develop a part we usually get 1 or 2 made by hand. First, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find people to do this. Second, those 1 or 2 pieces, made by hand, are rather expensive because you are paying for skill and experience. Now, when we go to full production with a part we have them made by machine - why? Bottom line is cost. It's MUCH cheaper to get them knocked out in hundreds or thousands by machine. Problem is, the art, the craftsmanship, the "love" of doing it right, and the concern over making it right is all lost.
I'm reminded of Levi's or Sear's Craftsman tools or even Delta woodworking tools. These are large companies that made products for many many years here in the USA. The reason they stated was quality, craftsmanship, and care of what went into a product. Now, these are all companies that have moved toward offshore manufacturing, and more of it automated than ever before. Sure, quality has gone down, and they rely upon their historic name and volume to make up for it. Sure, it's cheaper for them. Heck, from a business standpoint I can understand this. What saddens me though is the fact that I know that not as much care goes into the produts. I know that I'm just buying a thing. Gone is the thought that someone's heart and soul went into this piece. Someone with real skills. Skills that take time to develop. Skills that I'm actually envious that I do not possess, and even if I start to develop them are FAR short by what a truly experienced craftsman can deliver.
Now, Chris could certainly take some of his designs and have them CNC'd, and perhaps one day he will. Perhaps one day he'll reach the point where volume and need are high enough to make this move necessary. At that point in time you'll most likely see the price drop quite a bit. Do keep in mind though, that to make it worthwhile the size of the order has to make it justifiable. In the mean time, Chris will continue to develop his machinist's skills, put his heart and soul into each and every piece, and make every single one with an artist's eye. Because of this the prices as you see them now are, in my opinion, are wholly appropriate. Should you not like them I'm sure there are cheaper alternatives out there.
-Clint
I want to say a couple of things here.
First off, for those of you that don't know TiC, we started very small, with only one part to offer. Heck in the grand scheme of things we're still very very very small. Because of this we realize how incredibly expensive a vendor account can be. That is why we created the CGCI program. We saw some folks coming up with some very high quality parts based upon what we felt were really good ideas. The problem is these guys didn't have any good way to get their part on the market, and share their ideas with the community due to vendor account costs. Now, the question has come up with pricing and as such I'm sure folks are going to wonder more and more what TiC's cut is, and if that is inflating the price. I will tell you right now [B]exactly[/B] how much we make off each sale of a CGCI part.
$0. Zero dollars. Not one penny. Period. In other words, we don't take a cut, and thus drive up the price.
Second thing, pricing. Chris is new to this whole thing of running his own show, and as such has come to us on occasion to ask our opinion on pricing. We have offered guidance that I hope is helpful. Given Chris' parts we feel that the pricing is appropriate. Will there be cheaper alternatives out there? Yes. There always will be. Heck, we fight that battle [B]every single time[/B] we bring out a new part. That's just the way it is. Now, Chris recently came to me asking about pricing based upon this thread. My opinion was this: do not change pricing.
Here's why - what Chris is doing, turning these by hand, and taking his valuable time (and believe me, a person's time is valuable) to offer these to the Subaru community is a good thing. Not just for us, the community, but overall. In his making these by hand he is continuing what is rapidly becoming, in this day and age of CNC parts, a lost artform. Trust me, when we develop a part we usually get 1 or 2 made by hand. First, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find people to do this. Second, those 1 or 2 pieces, made by hand, are rather expensive because you are paying for skill and experience. Now, when we go to full production with a part we have them made by machine - why? Bottom line is cost. It's MUCH cheaper to get them knocked out in hundreds or thousands by machine. Problem is, the art, the craftsmanship, the "love" of doing it right, and the concern over making it right is all lost.
I'm reminded of Levi's or Sear's Craftsman tools or even Delta woodworking tools. These are large companies that made products for many many years here in the USA. The reason they stated was quality, craftsmanship, and care of what went into a product. Now, these are all companies that have moved toward offshore manufacturing, and more of it automated than ever before. Sure, quality has gone down, and they rely upon their historic name and volume to make up for it. Sure, it's cheaper for them. Heck, from a business standpoint I can understand this. What saddens me though is the fact that I know that not as much care goes into the produts. I know that I'm just buying a thing. Gone is the thought that someone's heart and soul went into this piece. Someone with real skills. Skills that take time to develop. Skills that I'm actually envious that I do not possess, and even if I start to develop them are FAR short by what a truly experienced craftsman can deliver.
Now, Chris could certainly take some of his designs and have them CNC'd, and perhaps one day he will. Perhaps one day he'll reach the point where volume and need are high enough to make this move necessary. At that point in time you'll most likely see the price drop quite a bit. Do keep in mind though, that to make it worthwhile the size of the order has to make it justifiable. In the mean time, Chris will continue to develop his machinist's skills, put his heart and soul into each and every piece, and make every single one with an artist's eye. Because of this the prices as you see them now are, in my opinion, are wholly appropriate. Should you not like them I'm sure there are cheaper alternatives out there.
-Clint
| Kahres05 | 03-06-2007 04:52 PM |
Holy Smokes this all got blown out of proportion!....for what it's worth, I want to apologize to Chris....keep up the good work.
| Dizmal | 03-06-2007 05:24 PM |
Yeah, it did.
You can tell the guy definitely takes pride in his work. I apologize for coming down on him for posting his product in EVERY knob thread!:lol: He work's hard for your knobs and now that I've half assed talked to him. He is much more than just a guy spamming threads and trying to make a buck. He's proud of his work and wants to share it with everyone!
Chris is a stand up guy. He pm'd me yesterday and apologized for posting his product in my thread, which he didn't need to do. He also asked what price I think he should charge, which is impossible for me to say. Because at the end of the day, he makes it. Not me. Besides, he seems to have plenty of happy customers right now. So if it isn't broke, don't fix it. At least not for a few penny pinching tight wads like myself!:D
But at the end of the day, I'm the one stuck working hard and putting in time for my money. So I need to go with what I feel is the best value for myself.
You can tell the guy definitely takes pride in his work. I apologize for coming down on him for posting his product in EVERY knob thread!:lol: He work's hard for your knobs and now that I've half assed talked to him. He is much more than just a guy spamming threads and trying to make a buck. He's proud of his work and wants to share it with everyone!
Chris is a stand up guy. He pm'd me yesterday and apologized for posting his product in my thread, which he didn't need to do. He also asked what price I think he should charge, which is impossible for me to say. Because at the end of the day, he makes it. Not me. Besides, he seems to have plenty of happy customers right now. So if it isn't broke, don't fix it. At least not for a few penny pinching tight wads like myself!:D
But at the end of the day, I'm the one stuck working hard and putting in time for my money. So I need to go with what I feel is the best value for myself.
| Roo | 03-06-2007 05:44 PM |
[QUOTE=StE823;17266327]oh god, this is one dirty knob....[/QUOTE]
It's been sitting on a shelf since November. It's been installed off and on since 2004.
We have a summer knob (that one) a winter knob, and are testing out the newer design knob (took the place of the winter knob).
It's been sitting on a shelf since November. It's been installed off and on since 2004.
We have a summer knob (that one) a winter knob, and are testing out the newer design knob (took the place of the winter knob).
| VincenzoL | 03-07-2007 03:31 AM |
[quote=Turn in Concepts;17277374] Will there be cheaper alternatives out there? Yes. There always will be. Heck, we fight that battle [B]every single time[/B] we bring out a new part. That's just the way it is. Now, Chris recently came to me asking about pricing based upon this thread. My opinion was this: do not change pricing.
Here's why - what Chris is doing, turning these by hand, and taking his valuable time (and believe me, a person's time is valuable) to offer these to the Subaru community is a good thing. Not just for us, the community, but overall. In his making these by hand he is continuing what is rapidly becoming, in this day and age of CNC parts, a lost artform. Trust me, when we develop a part we usually get 1 or 2 made by hand. First, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find people to do this. Second, those 1 or 2 pieces, made by hand, are rather expensive because you are paying for skill and experience. Now, when we go to full production with a part we have them made by machine - why? Bottom line is cost. It's MUCH cheaper to get them knocked out in hundreds or thousands by machine. Problem is, the art, the craftsmanship, the "love" of doing it right, and the concern over making it right is all lost.
[/quote]
For God's sake people, it's a shift knob we are talking about here... not the Mona Lisa!
I respect the guy's work too and was interested in buying one until I heard the price. I'm all for unique parts but I could care less if it was made by hand on a 50 year old lathe if it means I'll have to pay more than double for similar product.
With that said, GOOD LUCK!!!
Here's why - what Chris is doing, turning these by hand, and taking his valuable time (and believe me, a person's time is valuable) to offer these to the Subaru community is a good thing. Not just for us, the community, but overall. In his making these by hand he is continuing what is rapidly becoming, in this day and age of CNC parts, a lost artform. Trust me, when we develop a part we usually get 1 or 2 made by hand. First, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find people to do this. Second, those 1 or 2 pieces, made by hand, are rather expensive because you are paying for skill and experience. Now, when we go to full production with a part we have them made by machine - why? Bottom line is cost. It's MUCH cheaper to get them knocked out in hundreds or thousands by machine. Problem is, the art, the craftsmanship, the "love" of doing it right, and the concern over making it right is all lost.
[/quote]
For God's sake people, it's a shift knob we are talking about here... not the Mona Lisa!
I respect the guy's work too and was interested in buying one until I heard the price. I'm all for unique parts but I could care less if it was made by hand on a 50 year old lathe if it means I'll have to pay more than double for similar product.
With that said, GOOD LUCK!!!
| WRXDriftR | 03-08-2007 05:36 PM |
Due to the price, they aren't for everyone. But for those who receive one, I ensure that each customer gets what he pays for.
~Chris
~Chris
| randolph-rs | 03-08-2007 06:27 PM |
[QUOTE]randolph-rs
what are you worried this guy on his little hand cranker is gonna take your orders? :P hehe just joking since you're CNC i'm assuming you'll get it heck if we really wanted to go cheap and dirty we could pay you to cut our mold and then fill it with some pot metal then have some asain kid polish it up and rattle can the finish on and vola! 2.99 ebay specials!
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
I am sure you could chisel that out by hand. I wouldn't even consider your offer. I hate to point it out but you need some lessons in engrish.
As far as Chris goes, he is doing a fine job with his knobs and I am not a bit worried about him taking from me. He will never make the knobs I make and each of us have our own following. I do not make as many knobs as he does even though I do CNC work but my knobs have always been limited in numbers and only offered to a more appreciative group of people. More mature I might add.
what are you worried this guy on his little hand cranker is gonna take your orders? :P hehe just joking since you're CNC i'm assuming you'll get it heck if we really wanted to go cheap and dirty we could pay you to cut our mold and then fill it with some pot metal then have some asain kid polish it up and rattle can the finish on and vola! 2.99 ebay specials!
[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
I am sure you could chisel that out by hand. I wouldn't even consider your offer. I hate to point it out but you need some lessons in engrish.
As far as Chris goes, he is doing a fine job with his knobs and I am not a bit worried about him taking from me. He will never make the knobs I make and each of us have our own following. I do not make as many knobs as he does even though I do CNC work but my knobs have always been limited in numbers and only offered to a more appreciative group of people. More mature I might add.
| taylormade | 03-08-2007 07:14 PM |
I just received the poly with collar sphere. So happy. So nice. Great work, Chris.
| PURE EPI | 03-08-2007 11:08 PM |
Makes me wish I had an Sti... the knob for that car is just the business. no shiny flair, just what appears to be solid geometry and purposefulness. I would be happy to try one out. As for what I have, I have a 99 RS witht he WRC Ti knob and have been very happy. I may eventually change depending on what gets done to the car. I cannot remember a specific time though when the knob was too hot to touch. though (because my wife did not use the sunshade like she was told to) i did notice the same knob did get pretty hot in the WRX wagon we used to own.
In the future I will gladly consider Chris's knob (he he) :p
Til then I'm bookmarking this thread!
In the future I will gladly consider Chris's knob (he he) :p
Til then I'm bookmarking this thread!
| WRXDriftR | 03-09-2007 02:15 AM |
Hey guys, I was just working on a sketch for a new shift knob design. Its a sphere that blends into a cone at the bottom. This could also be adapted to work as an Automatic WRX shift knob (by removing the boot lip) and extending it a tad longer with less taper on the bottom end.
Opinions are appreciated:
[img]http://web.njit.edu/~cdm4/ShiftKnobs/Custom-Cone_Sphere.bmp[/img]
~Chris M
WC LATHE WERKS
Opinions are appreciated:
[img]http://web.njit.edu/~cdm4/ShiftKnobs/Custom-Cone_Sphere.bmp[/img]
~Chris M
WC LATHE WERKS
| StE823 | 03-09-2007 02:27 AM |
good looking! :) i like i like
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