| Chiketkd | 02-01-2007 08:26 PM |
Amazing SM/SM2 build...
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Many of you might know that Jason Rhoades won STS at both the Pro Finale and Solo Nationals in 2006 with his 240sx - a class long dominated by the ultra-light weight civics.
[img]http://www.jrho.com/sm240/jrho1.jpg[/img]
He's making the switch to SM/SM2 in '07, and has started a project thread over on the fresh alloy forums. Needless to say, I'm amazed at his attention to detail! :eek: :devil:
[url]http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=163184[/url]
[img]http://www.jrho.com/sm240/jrho1.jpg[/img]
He's making the switch to SM/SM2 in '07, and has started a project thread over on the fresh alloy forums. Needless to say, I'm amazed at his attention to detail! :eek: :devil:
[url]http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=163184[/url]
| adhowe70 | 02-01-2007 09:42 PM |
Yes, he pays attention to details. You have to if you want to play in SM. I don't think he's doing anything that the rest of the top builders haven't done.
Send me money and help me play with him. I'm at 2635 pounds on the new "sliding scale" weight formula in SM. I will need ballast to get there. I just need money to fund the rest of my build. :)
Send me money and help me play with him. I'm at 2635 pounds on the new "sliding scale" weight formula in SM. I will need ballast to get there. I just need money to fund the rest of my build. :)
| Storm | 02-02-2007 01:38 AM |
I'm not sure how the "[B]S[/B]pend [B]M[/B]oney" class helps the rest of the grass roots racing community....but I suppose if I had the money, I'd be spending it on a cool project car too.....
Jay Storm
Jay Storm
| Impreza01 | 02-02-2007 04:40 AM |
I seriously want to know what Jason Rhoades does for a living. It's one thing to have the money and cash for all these cool projects he does, but it's another thing to have a job that provides the money AND allows the time for the project.
For an amateur, grassroots builder though, he's very good.
For an amateur, grassroots builder though, he's very good.
| rsotak | 02-02-2007 08:43 AM |
I'd guess he is an aero engineer based on the rear wing FEA.
| solo-x | 02-02-2007 08:55 AM |
He's a computer nut.
| RainMaker | 02-02-2007 10:15 AM |
He has a great platform to work from. I wish our cars (02+ Imprezas) were easier to get down to the ~2700 lbs that would make them significantly more nationally competitive.
I can see easily where the money comes from. Two earner two engineer household with no kids will allow this all day long.
(going to get the kids ready for school) I can imagine quite well, actually... (grumble)
I can see easily where the money comes from. Two earner two engineer household with no kids will allow this all day long.
(going to get the kids ready for school) I can imagine quite well, actually... (grumble)
| leecea | 02-02-2007 10:40 AM |
I my wife and I didn't have two teenagers, we'd be fighting over who's turn it was for the tow vehicle - my track car or her horse trailer :lol: It would be night-and-day budget wise.
| Chiketkd | 02-02-2007 10:57 AM |
[QUOTE=leecea;16905235]I my wife and I didn't have two teenagers, we'd be fighting over who's turn it was for the tow vehicle - my track car or her horse trailer :lol: It would be night-and-day budget wise.[/QUOTE]
Same here. My wife and I have two kids with a third on the way. I'm we were DINK (double income no kids), we would be able to have a super huge house, and I'd probably be driving a C6 Z06 right about now - with my WRX as a winter beater! :p :devil:
Same here. My wife and I have two kids with a third on the way. I'm we were DINK (double income no kids), we would be able to have a super huge house, and I'd probably be driving a C6 Z06 right about now - with my WRX as a winter beater! :p :devil:
| Scooby South | 02-02-2007 11:03 AM |
Great Read...But I will go on record to say...it will take him [B]AT LEAST 1 year of developement behind the wheel to be competitive[/B].....Reason: With so many dynamics changing all at once...he will have to learn to drive the car all over again...Why I know this: I did the same thing in my RS...when I swapped it out...The handling of the car, even tho it will be somewhat familiar, will need tweeking and refinement...The brakes, the power, the turbo, the steering inputs, the delivery, everything, he will have to adjust....to become faster...once he accomplishes this...he might actually trophy in SM...until then...I expect him to be toward the back...
He seems to be a very good driver...with some hardcore analytical thinking..hopefully he can adjust ....quickly...
Good luck to him...
Bill
He seems to be a very good driver...with some hardcore analytical thinking..hopefully he can adjust ....quickly...
Good luck to him...
Bill
| solo-x | 02-02-2007 12:23 PM |
Bill, in '04 j-rho was in an SM2 vette. He built his STS car over the winter, then won with it in '05. I think he can adjust quick enough.
| Scooby South | 02-02-2007 12:33 PM |
[QUOTE=solo-x;16906665]Bill, in '04 j-rho was in an SM2 vette. He built his STS car over the winter, then won with it in '05. I think he can adjust quick enough.[/QUOTE]
Good to know...Its easier to drive a lessor HP car to the limit after coming out of a Higher HP car...than it is to do the opposite...But since he has RWD Higher HP Car Experience...then it would be a better transition for him than what I was talking about above..:)..
Thanks
Bill
Good to know...Its easier to drive a lessor HP car to the limit after coming out of a Higher HP car...than it is to do the opposite...But since he has RWD Higher HP Car Experience...then it would be a better transition for him than what I was talking about above..:)..
Thanks
Bill
| Homemade WRX | 02-02-2007 06:26 PM |
[QUOTE=Storm;16902829]I'm not sure how the "[B]S[/B]pend [B]M[/B]oney" class helps the rest of the grass roots racing community....but I suppose if I had the money, I'd be spending it on a cool project car too.....[/QUOTE]
I'll be playing in there with an interchangable turbo set up...40r for the strip and track but twinscroll 30r or 35r (pending track, same turbine side) for my SM fun...the car should do quite well in there too being the rpm range and gearing it will have. I fall into this class because of my original engine swap but want to play in this class as coming from FSAE much else is really technically and spec wise boring to build and drive.
only problem is the weight discrepancy between my NHRA minimum weight and the SM minimum.
2560 for SCCA and 2900!!! for nhra (I will fall under this in complete stock trim with 10 point cage):eek:
so I have to add weight to my car for nhra and then remove a quick 340 for autocross:rolleyes:
should be an amusing process to make easily do'able (inherently lazy ;))
I'll be playing in there with an interchangable turbo set up...40r for the strip and track but twinscroll 30r or 35r (pending track, same turbine side) for my SM fun...the car should do quite well in there too being the rpm range and gearing it will have. I fall into this class because of my original engine swap but want to play in this class as coming from FSAE much else is really technically and spec wise boring to build and drive.
only problem is the weight discrepancy between my NHRA minimum weight and the SM minimum.
2560 for SCCA and 2900!!! for nhra (I will fall under this in complete stock trim with 10 point cage):eek:
so I have to add weight to my car for nhra and then remove a quick 340 for autocross:rolleyes:
should be an amusing process to make easily do'able (inherently lazy ;))
| Warp3 | 02-02-2007 07:13 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16905525]Great Read...But I will go on record to say...it will take him [B]AT LEAST 1 year of developement behind the wheel to be competitive[/B].....Reason: With so many dynamics changing all at once...he will have to learn to drive the car all over again...Why I know this: I did the same thing in my RS...when I swapped it out...The handling of the car, even tho it will be somewhat familiar, will need tweeking and refinement...The brakes, the power, the turbo, the steering inputs, the delivery, everything, he will have to adjust....to become faster...once he accomplishes this...he might actually trophy in SM...until then...I expect him to be toward the back...[/QUOTE]
You're just saying that cause I kept beating you with my N/A 2.5RS shortly after you did the swap! :p :lol: j/k, Bill ;)
You're just saying that cause I kept beating you with my N/A 2.5RS shortly after you did the swap! :p :lol: j/k, Bill ;)
| sciolist | 02-02-2007 09:05 PM |
[QUOTE=Impreza01;16903420]It's one thing to have the money and cash for all these cool projects he does, but it's another thing to have a job that provides the money AND allows the time for the project.[/QUOTE]
"Money and cash"? Is that like Country & Western? Lol.
At least you're able to differentiate between time and money. Many seem incapable even of that. If you weren't born with the money in place, you might consider marrying someone who's willing to pay your bills.
There's a lot more to life than money... and that cuts both ways. :)
"Money and cash"? Is that like Country & Western? Lol.
At least you're able to differentiate between time and money. Many seem incapable even of that. If you weren't born with the money in place, you might consider marrying someone who's willing to pay your bills.
There's a lot more to life than money... and that cuts both ways. :)
| adhowe70 | 02-02-2007 09:08 PM |
National champion-type drivers adjust in the bat of an eye. They're fast in anything and they're fast RIGHT NOW. All of the Champs that I know have this trait. Its us mere mortals that require "training." :)
I'd guess that J-Rho will be up to speed by Atwater. Whether or not the car is up to speed by Atwater will be the test. I don't expect Jason to knock off Vic in Atwater, be he will raise some eyebrows.
I'd guess that J-Rho will be up to speed by Atwater. Whether or not the car is up to speed by Atwater will be the test. I don't expect Jason to knock off Vic in Atwater, be he will raise some eyebrows.
| adhowe70 | 02-02-2007 09:12 PM |
[QUOTE=Homemade WRX;16912059]
only problem is the weight discrepancy between my NHRA minimum weight and the SM minimum.
2560 for SCCA[/QUOTE]
What engine setup are you running to get there? The 1.4 value for turbo engines is additive, not a factor. 2.0L turbo = 3.4L NA = 2735ish.
Common SM weights for Subies:
2.5L NA - 2490ish
3.0L NA - 2635
2.0L Turbo - 2735ish
2.5L Turbo - 2880ish
only problem is the weight discrepancy between my NHRA minimum weight and the SM minimum.
2560 for SCCA[/QUOTE]
What engine setup are you running to get there? The 1.4 value for turbo engines is additive, not a factor. 2.0L turbo = 3.4L NA = 2735ish.
Common SM weights for Subies:
2.5L NA - 2490ish
3.0L NA - 2635
2.0L Turbo - 2735ish
2.5L Turbo - 2880ish
| KCRex | 02-02-2007 09:31 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16913621]National champion-type drivers adjust in the bat of an eye. They're fast in anything and they're fast RIGHT NOW. All of the Champs that I know have this trait. Its us mere mortals that require "training." :)
[/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly
[/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly
| Impreza01 | 02-02-2007 09:51 PM |
[QUOTE=sciolist;16913594]"Money and cash"? Is that like Country & Western? Lol.
At least you're able to differentiate between time and money. Many seem incapable even of that. If you weren't born with the money in place, you might consider marrying someone who's willing to pay your bills.
There's a lot more to life than money... and that cuts both ways. :)[/QUOTE]
:o I was listening to a song that kept saying cash, cash, cash. Whoops...
At least you're able to differentiate between time and money. Many seem incapable even of that. If you weren't born with the money in place, you might consider marrying someone who's willing to pay your bills.
There's a lot more to life than money... and that cuts both ways. :)[/QUOTE]
:o I was listening to a song that kept saying cash, cash, cash. Whoops...
| Scooby South | 02-02-2007 09:59 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16913621]National champion-type drivers adjust in the bat of an eye. They're fast in anything and they're fast RIGHT NOW. All of the Champs that I know have this trait. Its us mere mortals that require "training." :)
I'd guess that J-Rho will be up to speed by Atwater. Whether or not the car is up to speed by Atwater will be the test. I don't expect Jason to knock off Vic in Atwater, be he will raise some eyebrows.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=KCRex;16913825]My thoughts exactly[/QUOTE]
I can respect that...and your probably right....Meh...who am I kidding...I am just S L O W by comparison..:(
maybe..:devil:
Bill
I'd guess that J-Rho will be up to speed by Atwater. Whether or not the car is up to speed by Atwater will be the test. I don't expect Jason to knock off Vic in Atwater, be he will raise some eyebrows.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=KCRex;16913825]My thoughts exactly[/QUOTE]
I can respect that...and your probably right....Meh...who am I kidding...I am just S L O W by comparison..:(
maybe..:devil:
Bill
| adhowe70 | 02-02-2007 10:52 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16914088]I can respect that...and your probably right....Meh...who am I kidding...I am just S L O W by comparison..:(
maybe..:devil:
Bill[/QUOTE]
Even us "mortals" can be fast. This ONE time, at Nationals (its sorta like Band Camp, yeah?), I finished between Ron Bauer and Joe Goeke. Other than that, its all been "out of the trophies" for me. But the champion types... they're always in the trophies.
maybe..:devil:
Bill[/QUOTE]
Even us "mortals" can be fast. This ONE time, at Nationals (its sorta like Band Camp, yeah?), I finished between Ron Bauer and Joe Goeke. Other than that, its all been "out of the trophies" for me. But the champion types... they're always in the trophies.
| silver arrow | 02-02-2007 11:12 PM |
[QUOTE=Homemade WRX;16912059]I'll be playing in there with an interchangable turbo set up...40r for the strip and track but twinscroll 30r or 35r (pending track, same turbine side) for my SM fun...the car should do quite well in there too being the rpm range and gearing it will have. I fall into this class because of my original engine swap but want to play in this class as coming from FSAE much else is really technically and spec wise boring to build and drive.
only problem is the weight discrepancy between my NHRA minimum weight and the SM minimum.
2560 for SCCA and 2900!!! for nhra (I will fall under this in complete stock trim with 10 point cage):eek:
so I have to add weight to my car for nhra and then remove a quick 340 for autocross:rolleyes:
should be an amusing process to make easily do'able (inherently lazy ;))[/QUOTE]
Throw a fat chick in the trunk. :banana:
only problem is the weight discrepancy between my NHRA minimum weight and the SM minimum.
2560 for SCCA and 2900!!! for nhra (I will fall under this in complete stock trim with 10 point cage):eek:
so I have to add weight to my car for nhra and then remove a quick 340 for autocross:rolleyes:
should be an amusing process to make easily do'able (inherently lazy ;))[/QUOTE]
Throw a fat chick in the trunk. :banana:
| Homemade WRX | 02-03-2007 03:17 AM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16913661]What engine setup are you running to get there? The 1.4 value for turbo engines is additive, not a factor. 2.0L turbo = 3.4L NA = 2735ish.
Common SM weights for Subies:
2.5L NA - 2490ish
3.0L NA - 2635
2.0L Turbo - 2735ish
2.5L Turbo - 2880ish[/QUOTE]
assuming I could get the bare chassis minus engine down to 1800 lbs...and the engine and it's bits weigh in at their "valued" 760-780 or so lbs
I do have a 94 sedan which is from the factory, the lightest AWD impreza subaru has made. 2500 with nothing, 2585 e.w. is what mine weighed when I got her...vapors in the gas tank
[QUOTE=silver arrow;16914719]Throw a fat chick in the trunk. :banana:[/QUOTE] you know anyone that has a loaner?
Common SM weights for Subies:
2.5L NA - 2490ish
3.0L NA - 2635
2.0L Turbo - 2735ish
2.5L Turbo - 2880ish[/QUOTE]
assuming I could get the bare chassis minus engine down to 1800 lbs...and the engine and it's bits weigh in at their "valued" 760-780 or so lbs
I do have a 94 sedan which is from the factory, the lightest AWD impreza subaru has made. 2500 with nothing, 2585 e.w. is what mine weighed when I got her...vapors in the gas tank
[QUOTE=silver arrow;16914719]Throw a fat chick in the trunk. :banana:[/QUOTE] you know anyone that has a loaner?
| scoobyimpreza | 02-03-2007 04:14 AM |
wow, i havent seen some of those names in years (used to own a few s14s)
how do the suby folk fend against the FD, Vettes and others?
how do the suby folk fend against the FD, Vettes and others?
| adhowe70 | 02-03-2007 11:38 AM |
[QUOTE=Homemade WRX;16916120]assuming I could get the bare chassis minus engine down to 1800 lbs...and the engine and it's bits weigh in at their "valued" 760-780 or so lbs
I do have a 94 sedan which is from the factory, the lightest AWD impreza subaru has made. 2500 with nothing, 2585 e.w. is what mine weighed when I got her...vapors in the gas tank
[/QUOTE]
My '96 Brighton weighed about 2525 when it was partially prepped before the engine swap, half tank of gas. I know where you're coming from.
That's all fine except that the minimum weights in SM have changed for 2007. Now the minimum for AWD cars is 1800 + 275 lbs per liter of displacement. Forced induction counts as 1.4 additional liters. So, a 2.0L turbo Impreza will be required to weigh 2735. Sorry. Even before, you needed to weigh 2600 pounds with a 2.0L turbo to meet minimum weights in the rules.
If you're running a NA platform, you can legally weigh 2635 (3.0L) or 2490ish (2.5L) or even less with a 2.2 or 1.8. I WAS building to the NA miniumum of 2400 pounds, but now I'll just ballast. :(
I do have a 94 sedan which is from the factory, the lightest AWD impreza subaru has made. 2500 with nothing, 2585 e.w. is what mine weighed when I got her...vapors in the gas tank
[/QUOTE]
My '96 Brighton weighed about 2525 when it was partially prepped before the engine swap, half tank of gas. I know where you're coming from.
That's all fine except that the minimum weights in SM have changed for 2007. Now the minimum for AWD cars is 1800 + 275 lbs per liter of displacement. Forced induction counts as 1.4 additional liters. So, a 2.0L turbo Impreza will be required to weigh 2735. Sorry. Even before, you needed to weigh 2600 pounds with a 2.0L turbo to meet minimum weights in the rules.
If you're running a NA platform, you can legally weigh 2635 (3.0L) or 2490ish (2.5L) or even less with a 2.2 or 1.8. I WAS building to the NA miniumum of 2400 pounds, but now I'll just ballast. :(
| Homemade WRX | 02-03-2007 03:52 PM |
I thought the rule was 200lb/liter...? then FI counted as 1.4L?
so that would be a wrx swap at 3.4*200=680?
...note I'm not running a 2.0 for my previous weight...
time to get the rules out again
so that would be a wrx swap at 3.4*200=680?
...note I'm not running a 2.0 for my previous weight...
time to get the rules out again
| adhowe70 | 02-03-2007 04:17 PM |
200 lb/liter is for RWD cars only. AWD cars are 275. It sucks balls.
My H6 swap (NA) runs at 1800 + 3.0 * 275 = 2625.
A WRX swap would run at 1800 + 3.4 * 275 = 2735.
A 2.2T would be 1800 + 3.6 * 275 = 2790. <-- forgot about this possibility
An STi swap would run at 1800 + 3.9 * 275 = 2873?
You can join me in the :( :( :( club.
My H6 swap (NA) runs at 1800 + 3.0 * 275 = 2625.
A WRX swap would run at 1800 + 3.4 * 275 = 2735.
A 2.2T would be 1800 + 3.6 * 275 = 2790. <-- forgot about this possibility
An STi swap would run at 1800 + 3.9 * 275 = 2873?
You can join me in the :( :( :( club.
| Homemade WRX | 02-03-2007 09:10 PM |
gotcha...missed the awd being 275 the first time through...well, that really blows...so like for nhra, I have to throw a crap load of weight in a car that I can put any sizeable tires under.
guess I'll have to have a seperate car with a 2.0L...funny they are trying so hard to cut weight and I can run in full trim and still need to add weight :rolleyes:
I should be around 2853.8...factory ew was 2585...so I'm probably sitting right around/little above 2600 now...
guess I'll have to have a seperate car with a 2.0L...funny they are trying so hard to cut weight and I can run in full trim and still need to add weight :rolleyes:
I should be around 2853.8...factory ew was 2585...so I'm probably sitting right around/little above 2600 now...
| dwx | 02-03-2007 10:03 PM |
I had built in 2005 what I thought was the best SM Subaru to date, but the car had some overheating problems and I became too busy (lazy) to put the few hours I needed to into finishing it. It sat all of last winter and I moved this last summer and just didn't have time to get it done. With the new rules it may not be the best car at this point, due to the fact it is built as a 2.5L Turbo. I honestlly haven't been keeping up on the rules.
Does the weight include the driver or no?
The rundown of that car is as follows. It's 100% complete right now, it just doesn't have an engine in it, but that is hopefully being rectified in the near future. I'd like to tow it down here to Atlanta in a month or so to have it tuned. Here is the breakdown of that car:
1998 Impreza L coupe
Built 2.5L block
V8 RA heads, ported, DPR AVCS cams
20G external wastegate turbo setup, I also have a PE1818 external setup that I was going to try.
Hydra ECU
Air/Water IC setup, similar to Rhoades, front mount cooler
4-pot front/2-pot rear Wilwood brakes
16x10 Real racing rims (275/45/16 tires), although they also make 15x10 which may work well with the new 275/35-15 A6s... I was thinking of trying to trade with them since I've never actually used the rims.
JDM 6MT trans, Cusco Type-RS front LSD
R160 w/Kaaz 1.5way rear LSD
Advance Design suspension
10.5:1 Steering rack (my single favorite mod probably)
All the suspension bits Poltec sells, Aluminum control arms
Most bushings replaced with something stiffer.
Aluminum hood off a JDM WRX
When the car was complete it weighed about 2575 lbs with little to no gas in it.
If I had to add 200lbs of ballast I could get very close to a 50/50 weight distrubution.
I still plan on finishing the car and autocrossing it this year. If I sold all the turbo stuff, I'm sure I could have the money to drop a built 3L NA motor in there.
Phil
Does the weight include the driver or no?
The rundown of that car is as follows. It's 100% complete right now, it just doesn't have an engine in it, but that is hopefully being rectified in the near future. I'd like to tow it down here to Atlanta in a month or so to have it tuned. Here is the breakdown of that car:
1998 Impreza L coupe
Built 2.5L block
V8 RA heads, ported, DPR AVCS cams
20G external wastegate turbo setup, I also have a PE1818 external setup that I was going to try.
Hydra ECU
Air/Water IC setup, similar to Rhoades, front mount cooler
4-pot front/2-pot rear Wilwood brakes
16x10 Real racing rims (275/45/16 tires), although they also make 15x10 which may work well with the new 275/35-15 A6s... I was thinking of trying to trade with them since I've never actually used the rims.
JDM 6MT trans, Cusco Type-RS front LSD
R160 w/Kaaz 1.5way rear LSD
Advance Design suspension
10.5:1 Steering rack (my single favorite mod probably)
All the suspension bits Poltec sells, Aluminum control arms
Most bushings replaced with something stiffer.
Aluminum hood off a JDM WRX
When the car was complete it weighed about 2575 lbs with little to no gas in it.
If I had to add 200lbs of ballast I could get very close to a 50/50 weight distrubution.
I still plan on finishing the car and autocrossing it this year. If I sold all the turbo stuff, I'm sure I could have the money to drop a built 3L NA motor in there.
Phil
| adhowe70 | 02-03-2007 10:10 PM |
There's a reason I swapped to the H6. Minimum weight. Even a full year ago when the H6 was chosen, I felt I could get below 2600 pounds (which was the turbo minimum at the time) with it. I thought 2400 was a stretch, but sub-2500 was possible. I still feel that way - it just takes money! I should have a car that will be sub-2600 with half a tank of fuel. Then we'll add some ballast to the trunk (the only legal place to add it.)
You should be able to fit at least 275's under the car. Some of the DSP 2.5's are running 275's. I think with proper adjustments, 295's or even 315's will fit on the GC chassis.
If I were you, I'd add the weight back into the car with a roll cage. Get some stiffness for your weight.
Edit: These weights do NOT include driver.
You should be able to fit at least 275's under the car. Some of the DSP 2.5's are running 275's. I think with proper adjustments, 295's or even 315's will fit on the GC chassis.
If I were you, I'd add the weight back into the car with a roll cage. Get some stiffness for your weight.
Edit: These weights do NOT include driver.
| adhowe70 | 02-03-2007 10:20 PM |
Phil,
I'll take my throttle response of the H6 over your raw power of the 2.5T any day. Its autocross... I want the instant throttle response and engine braking that an NA engine offer. Otherwise, I think you've got the car I'm building. :)
Where'd you get that steering rack? What did it run you?
Andy
I'll take my throttle response of the H6 over your raw power of the 2.5T any day. Its autocross... I want the instant throttle response and engine braking that an NA engine offer. Otherwise, I think you've got the car I'm building. :)
Where'd you get that steering rack? What did it run you?
Andy
| dwx | 02-03-2007 10:41 PM |
Yeah when we were floating around SM weight changes a couple years ago and multipliers seemed like a likely candidate, a cage was the other option for the car.
I've driven the car with the 275s on it already, it works fine. Jay (Storm) and I bought the wheels together to run that size tire a couple years ago. I didn't want to spend the money on the wheels to run 285/35/18.
I decided on the 2.5L turbo motor because after driving my 02 WRX with a 2.5L turbo motor I just didn't think the NA H6 could really compete power/torque wise. And in the end the car was still under 2600 lbs with all the turbo stuff. With a 3L NA motor the car should get very close to 2500 lbs.
My car was 2575 with a 6MT, with a 5MT and H6 you should get get to <2500 lbs very easily.
Believe me, a well tuned 2.5L with the right turbo has instant throttle response. I built an 02 WRX that was midly successfull with a 2.5L/PE1818 turbo. You can run a lot of timing advance on C16 gas. :)
It's a Rev-Lab steering rack, it was around $900 a couple years ago. Pat Richard sells them now I believe. [url]http://www.rocketrally.com/managed/mod-CMpro-viewpage-pageid-4.phtml[/url] . Mine was for a GD WRX and I had a custom adapter made to match the splines on the GC8 steering column.
I've driven the car with the 275s on it already, it works fine. Jay (Storm) and I bought the wheels together to run that size tire a couple years ago. I didn't want to spend the money on the wheels to run 285/35/18.
I decided on the 2.5L turbo motor because after driving my 02 WRX with a 2.5L turbo motor I just didn't think the NA H6 could really compete power/torque wise. And in the end the car was still under 2600 lbs with all the turbo stuff. With a 3L NA motor the car should get very close to 2500 lbs.
My car was 2575 with a 6MT, with a 5MT and H6 you should get get to <2500 lbs very easily.
Believe me, a well tuned 2.5L with the right turbo has instant throttle response. I built an 02 WRX that was midly successfull with a 2.5L/PE1818 turbo. You can run a lot of timing advance on C16 gas. :)
It's a Rev-Lab steering rack, it was around $900 a couple years ago. Pat Richard sells them now I believe. [url]http://www.rocketrally.com/managed/mod-CMpro-viewpage-pageid-4.phtml[/url] . Mine was for a GD WRX and I had a custom adapter made to match the splines on the GC8 steering column.
| Homemade WRX | 02-03-2007 11:01 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16922184] If I were you, I'd add the weight back into the car with a roll cage. Get some stiffness for your weight. [/QUOTE]
yeah, that is a given. I have to have a 10 point though, so some of the weight will be in the front...I might mount my water to air icebox in the trunk too.
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16922184]Edit: These weights do NOT include driver.[/QUOTE]
that is the big bummer that I have known...at least my nhra weights are with driver and fuel at the end of the run.
as for the turbo throttle response and engine braking...lets just say the setup isn't done right for SM rules ;)
yeah, that is a given. I have to have a 10 point though, so some of the weight will be in the front...I might mount my water to air icebox in the trunk too.
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16922184]Edit: These weights do NOT include driver.[/QUOTE]
that is the big bummer that I have known...at least my nhra weights are with driver and fuel at the end of the run.
as for the turbo throttle response and engine braking...lets just say the setup isn't done right for SM rules ;)
| adhowe70 | 02-03-2007 11:09 PM |
One of their racks is on my "money is no object" mod list. Right there with the 13:1 3.0L engine and 300 horsepower at the wheels.
As for actual weights, I think "very easily" is a bit of a stretch for sub-2500 with the car. I've learned a lot about where weight can be dropped and there's a TON of it that can come off these things, but it all costs money. If I had another $25k to pour into the car, I'd have an Impreza with a near 50-50 weight distribution running at 2625 pounds. The more I dig, the more I think 2450 is a viable weight for the car... if I had enough money.
As for actual weights, I think "very easily" is a bit of a stretch for sub-2500 with the car. I've learned a lot about where weight can be dropped and there's a TON of it that can come off these things, but it all costs money. If I had another $25k to pour into the car, I'd have an Impreza with a near 50-50 weight distribution running at 2625 pounds. The more I dig, the more I think 2450 is a viable weight for the car... if I had enough money.
| Storm | 02-03-2007 11:52 PM |
Hey Phil...I just got a reply from Boubin that the 15" shells are compatable with our centers..... Makes the switch slight cheaper...but only slightly. We ended up going to 18x10.5" CCWs and 285s. Anyone need some 16" Real wheels? They gotta go for best offer now....
DO IT!!!!
Jay Storm
DO IT!!!!
Jay Storm
| Storz | 02-04-2007 10:36 AM |
That is incredible, great read and thanks for the link!
| dwx | 02-04-2007 10:38 AM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16922647]One of their racks is on my "money is no object" mod list. Right there with the 13:1 3.0L engine and 300 horsepower at the wheels.
As for actual weights, I think "very easily" is a bit of a stretch for sub-2500 with the car. I've learned a lot about where weight can be dropped and there's a TON of it that can come off these things, but it all costs money. If I had another $25k to pour into the car, I'd have an Impreza with a near 50-50 weight distribution running at 2625 pounds. The more I dig, the more I think 2450 is a viable weight for the car... if I had enough money.[/QUOTE]
I kept a running tally of the parts I took off and the parts I put back on to replace them, but that was a couple computers and failed hard drives ago. I know what you are going through because I did the same thing 3 years ago. And you are right, all it takes is money. I had to do custom one off parts and all kinds of crap to build that car, that's why I'd like to at least drive it instead of selling it at this point. Really easy weight things are exhaust, brakes, seat belt hardware, seats (al fixed brackets), hood, and suspension parts.
I couldn't get the car to 50/50 weight distribution; with the turbo setup and engine location it's neigh impossible, but the car is better than a stock impreza.
As for actual weights, I think "very easily" is a bit of a stretch for sub-2500 with the car. I've learned a lot about where weight can be dropped and there's a TON of it that can come off these things, but it all costs money. If I had another $25k to pour into the car, I'd have an Impreza with a near 50-50 weight distribution running at 2625 pounds. The more I dig, the more I think 2450 is a viable weight for the car... if I had enough money.[/QUOTE]
I kept a running tally of the parts I took off and the parts I put back on to replace them, but that was a couple computers and failed hard drives ago. I know what you are going through because I did the same thing 3 years ago. And you are right, all it takes is money. I had to do custom one off parts and all kinds of crap to build that car, that's why I'd like to at least drive it instead of selling it at this point. Really easy weight things are exhaust, brakes, seat belt hardware, seats (al fixed brackets), hood, and suspension parts.
I couldn't get the car to 50/50 weight distribution; with the turbo setup and engine location it's neigh impossible, but the car is better than a stock impreza.
| solo-x | 02-04-2007 02:38 PM |
I've switched back and forth between high power RWD, low power RWD, high power FWD, low power FWD, low power and light weight and high power heavy weight. They all drive the same, you just pay a different penalty for different mistakes. For example, a high power rwd/fwd car isn't going to be very forgiving of tromping on the throttle. Likewise, a lightweight under powered car isn't going to make up for overbraking for a corner too well. In my experience, the high power cars allow you many more options for correcting a mistake in line or execution. A low powered car has nearly no options left if you've overslowed. For me, adjusting to big, heavy cars, regardless of power, is the most difficult.
Looking from it from a pax perspective, yes, slower cars are easier to do well with. That is because there is a smaller variation in optimal pax performance due to outside variables. You take away a bunch of grip from a 500hp vette and it isn't going to be .25 second slower, it's going to be 2-3 seconds slower. Take the same amount of grip away from an HS mini and it's only going to be a couple tenths slower because it spends more time hp limited then it does traction limited to begin with.
Looking from it from a pax perspective, yes, slower cars are easier to do well with. That is because there is a smaller variation in optimal pax performance due to outside variables. You take away a bunch of grip from a 500hp vette and it isn't going to be .25 second slower, it's going to be 2-3 seconds slower. Take the same amount of grip away from an HS mini and it's only going to be a couple tenths slower because it spends more time hp limited then it does traction limited to begin with.
| Uber Wagon | 02-04-2007 04:32 PM |
With the higher weight limits does it start to make sense to consider a GD chassis since it is a bit stiffer than the GC chassis cars?
While a turbo 2.5L impreza might not be competitive nationally at 2873 lbs, it no longer seems too far fetched to get a decentlly prepped STi to that point.
While a turbo 2.5L impreza might not be competitive nationally at 2873 lbs, it no longer seems too far fetched to get a decentlly prepped STi to that point.
| Pacobeagle | 02-04-2007 06:53 PM |
My ONLY SUBARU ENTRY into the 2006 SM class weighed in at 2950. Again, it's a WRX but it wasn't fully a commited race car. This year, I hope to attend with the Koby Motorsports entry WRX SM car. I've got some work to do.
See you all at Dixie
See you all at Dixie
| RainMaker | 02-04-2007 08:08 PM |
[QUOTE=Uber Wagon;16928133]While a turbo 2.5L impreza might not be competitive nationally at 2873 lbs, it no longer seems too far fetched to get a decentlly prepped STi to that point.[/QUOTE]
I spend alot of time staring at that number (2873), and I can't think of too many ways to get there cheaply within the SM rule-set.
I am going to do the following and see what it weighs:
Wing switch (-10lbs)
spare/mats removal (-50lbs)
Braille Battery (-16 lbs)
rear 06+ undertray removal (-3 lbs)
TBE (Cobb catted DP, Borla XR-1 catback) (-10 lbs)
Corba Suzuka Seats (-35lbs)
Perrin Lateral Links (-4 lbs)
Brakeman front rotors (-20lbs)
Gram-light 57f wheels/Hoosier A6 tires (-15lbs)
1/3 tank of gas (-50lbs)
little/no windsheild washer fluid (-4lbs)
Ohlins coilovers (-25lbs)
Added big swaybars (+8lbs)
Rear speakers removed (-5lbs)
If Im below 3000lbs, I'll be surprised and pleased. The next 125lbs will not be so easy without taking away from my non-racecar purposes. For example, the rear seatbelts are heavy and higher up, but I use them during the week. I just dont envision prepping the car by taking otu the rear seats (easy) and removing the rear seatbelts (no so easy) before every race. Call me not-hardcore-enough, but I can't afford not to use the rear seat during the week...
I could throw money at the last 125 lbs, but Im not sure where the cheapest way to get down 125lbs after the above is... without effecting the safety of the car in any way. Just more exploring I guess.
I spend alot of time staring at that number (2873), and I can't think of too many ways to get there cheaply within the SM rule-set.
I am going to do the following and see what it weighs:
Wing switch (-10lbs)
spare/mats removal (-50lbs)
Braille Battery (-16 lbs)
rear 06+ undertray removal (-3 lbs)
TBE (Cobb catted DP, Borla XR-1 catback) (-10 lbs)
Corba Suzuka Seats (-35lbs)
Perrin Lateral Links (-4 lbs)
Brakeman front rotors (-20lbs)
Gram-light 57f wheels/Hoosier A6 tires (-15lbs)
1/3 tank of gas (-50lbs)
little/no windsheild washer fluid (-4lbs)
Ohlins coilovers (-25lbs)
Added big swaybars (+8lbs)
Rear speakers removed (-5lbs)
If Im below 3000lbs, I'll be surprised and pleased. The next 125lbs will not be so easy without taking away from my non-racecar purposes. For example, the rear seatbelts are heavy and higher up, but I use them during the week. I just dont envision prepping the car by taking otu the rear seats (easy) and removing the rear seatbelts (no so easy) before every race. Call me not-hardcore-enough, but I can't afford not to use the rear seat during the week...
I could throw money at the last 125 lbs, but Im not sure where the cheapest way to get down 125lbs after the above is... without effecting the safety of the car in any way. Just more exploring I guess.
| adhowe70 | 02-04-2007 08:34 PM |
Chris,
You could downsize the brakes to save weight. Or buy aluminum calipers (they do exist.) Custom aluminum knuckles. CF driveshaft. There's lots of ways to run at that weight in your chassis. They just all cost $$$$$$.
Heck, even swapping back to a R160 setup with the 5MT would get you huge savings. This is the major pitfall of SM. Its about building racecars - specifically autocross cars, not mixed-use cars. The "ultimate" SM car is not going to have much appeal in any other venue.
Andy
You could downsize the brakes to save weight. Or buy aluminum calipers (they do exist.) Custom aluminum knuckles. CF driveshaft. There's lots of ways to run at that weight in your chassis. They just all cost $$$$$$.
Heck, even swapping back to a R160 setup with the 5MT would get you huge savings. This is the major pitfall of SM. Its about building racecars - specifically autocross cars, not mixed-use cars. The "ultimate" SM car is not going to have much appeal in any other venue.
Andy
| RainMaker | 02-04-2007 09:06 PM |
I've spent awhile thinking about the R160 actually, but I really like the DCCD, and it's nice to know that I have an essentially bulletproof 6 speed. There are probably ways to get 125 lbs off with less hassle than that...
The aluminum calipers are a nice thought. They save weight and I dont use the car for track days. Unsprung weight is a bad thing (tm). But thats $1000+ for 5 lbs a corner. The CF driveshaft barely gets 6 lbs, and I've always been annoyed by how many things (croupe in children, collick in babies, blindness in old people) the CF driveshaft fans say the thing fixes.
Weight up high is definitely worse as well. I think I'll spring for the Spec-C trunk and bail on the WRX wing for the summer season and see if I can remove the upper 06+ wing with either some small "plugs" or something similar. I've got a friend who paints on the side and I need him to do a new front-bumper skin for me anyways. It's only money ;)
I know I can probably not win nationally with a dual-use vehicle, and for now there's no way in he|| I'm going to be competitive without a few [i]years[/i] of driving work, but I think a community discussion of "value" weight savers would be helpful. I know folks have listed out weights galore... but "All weight is not equal", so it's probably a discussion worth having.
This is also a great "Subaru" drivers region, (Oregon). Lots of folks doing good things openly with Imprezas. I'm sure everyone will have updates at the Feb 11th opening party :) Maybe I can get some good ideas for Ryan, James, yourself, etc...
The aluminum calipers are a nice thought. They save weight and I dont use the car for track days. Unsprung weight is a bad thing (tm). But thats $1000+ for 5 lbs a corner. The CF driveshaft barely gets 6 lbs, and I've always been annoyed by how many things (croupe in children, collick in babies, blindness in old people) the CF driveshaft fans say the thing fixes.
Weight up high is definitely worse as well. I think I'll spring for the Spec-C trunk and bail on the WRX wing for the summer season and see if I can remove the upper 06+ wing with either some small "plugs" or something similar. I've got a friend who paints on the side and I need him to do a new front-bumper skin for me anyways. It's only money ;)
I know I can probably not win nationally with a dual-use vehicle, and for now there's no way in he|| I'm going to be competitive without a few [i]years[/i] of driving work, but I think a community discussion of "value" weight savers would be helpful. I know folks have listed out weights galore... but "All weight is not equal", so it's probably a discussion worth having.
This is also a great "Subaru" drivers region, (Oregon). Lots of folks doing good things openly with Imprezas. I'm sure everyone will have updates at the Feb 11th opening party :) Maybe I can get some good ideas for Ryan, James, yourself, etc...
| Homemade WRX | 02-04-2007 09:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Uber Wagon;16928133]With the higher weight limits does it start to make sense to consider a GD chassis since it is a bit stiffer than the GC chassis cars? [/QUOTE]
not really looking at all the aftermarket (much stronger) stiffening I can do on the lighter chassis to meet the same weight.
not really looking at all the aftermarket (much stronger) stiffening I can do on the lighter chassis to meet the same weight.
| Homemade WRX | 02-04-2007 09:59 PM |
[QUOTE=RainMaker;16929805]I've spent awhile thinking about the R160 actually, but I really like the DCCD, and it's nice to know that I have an essentially bulletproof 6 speed. There are probably ways to get 125 lbs off with less hassle than that.[/QUOTE]
well, I'd keep the r180 for strength and get a built five speed for bet0ter gearing and less weight. There are dccd units for the 5 speeds too ;
well, I'd keep the r180 for strength and get a built five speed for bet0ter gearing and less weight. There are dccd units for the 5 speeds too ;
| wrrrx | 02-04-2007 10:31 PM |
[QUOTE=RainMaker;16929401]I spend alot of time staring at that number (2873), and I can't think of too many ways to get there cheaply within the SM rule-set.[/QUOTE]
Ha ha haaaa, you and me both, Chris!
FWIW, I saw a sub-2900 lb STi over Xmas, but it wasn't close to being SM-legal.
I've been looking around for other ideas, but as you pointed out, there's only so much you can do and (realistically) keep it as a DD. :(
I'm sure you've seen this on iwsti;
[url]http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65805[/url]
Many aren't applicable to the SM ruleset, but there are a lot of ideas there anyway.
I too, have thought about the Spec C trunk. But then, I'm not willing to give up my wing, so how dedicated am I really? :lol: :lol:
Russ R
Ha ha haaaa, you and me both, Chris!
FWIW, I saw a sub-2900 lb STi over Xmas, but it wasn't close to being SM-legal.
I've been looking around for other ideas, but as you pointed out, there's only so much you can do and (realistically) keep it as a DD. :(
I'm sure you've seen this on iwsti;
[url]http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65805[/url]
Many aren't applicable to the SM ruleset, but there are a lot of ideas there anyway.
I too, have thought about the Spec C trunk. But then, I'm not willing to give up my wing, so how dedicated am I really? :lol: :lol:
Russ R
| RainMaker | 02-04-2007 10:33 PM |
[QUOTE=wrrrx;16930468]so how dedicated am I really? :lol: :lol:
Russ R[/QUOTE]
You are only as dedicated as your attendence :p :banana: :lol:
We going to see you on the 11th for the opening gig? First race isnt until the 24/25 of March... but we'd like to see you at the pre-season party :)
Chris
Russ R[/QUOTE]
You are only as dedicated as your attendence :p :banana: :lol:
We going to see you on the 11th for the opening gig? First race isnt until the 24/25 of March... but we'd like to see you at the pre-season party :)
Chris
| adhowe70 | 02-04-2007 11:00 PM |
Can someone show me where swapping trunks is legal? I must have missed that in the rules.
| Chiketkd | 02-05-2007 12:54 PM |
^
I don't see it specifically mentioned in the rules either (only front and rear fascias, hood, etc... However, you are allowed weight reduction to a specific amount (based on engine size and drivetrain layout), and as long as the Spec C trunk is of the same material as the stock trunk, it should be a permissable modification.
I don't see it specifically mentioned in the rules either (only front and rear fascias, hood, etc... However, you are allowed weight reduction to a specific amount (based on engine size and drivetrain layout), and as long as the Spec C trunk is of the same material as the stock trunk, it should be a permissable modification.
| adhowe70 | 02-05-2007 01:26 PM |
Not true! You are not allowed to reduce weight in any imaginable way to achieve the minimums. You are ONLY allowed to reduce weight with legal mods. If the trunk isn't listed, its not a legal swap.
Taking the hardline interpretation of the rules. If there's a performance advantage for it, you can't have it.
Taking the hardline interpretation of the rules. If there's a performance advantage for it, you can't have it.
| RainMaker | 02-05-2007 02:17 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16937439]Not true! You are not allowed to reduce weight in any imaginable way to achieve the minimums. You are ONLY allowed to reduce weight with legal mods. If the trunk isn't listed, its not a legal swap.
Taking the hardline interpretation of the rules. If there's a performance advantage for it, you can't have it.[/QUOTE]
I went through the rules again with a comb and you are right... not allowed as far as I read.
Its also worth more than 1 lb, the allowable "If you are doing something allowable and it effects somethign that isnt, you cant reduce it by more than 1lb" rule doesnt apply here. It's not being done to acheive an "allowable mod". Though the "wing" is free, you could get another trunk lid and if it wasnt more than 1 lb lighter, you *might* have an angle.
Of course if it wasnt more than 1 lb lighter than the steel trunk, it wouldnt be worth the $400 or whatever plus paint that it costs.
On to other things. Brakes are squarely in the crosshairs, but brakes make me nervous. Im not all that good at braking systems, and my experience is that they are awefully easy to futz up. An old BMW 2002tii that I raced in ITB for awhile comes to mind. :( Not a pleasant memory.
Taking the hardline interpretation of the rules. If there's a performance advantage for it, you can't have it.[/QUOTE]
I went through the rules again with a comb and you are right... not allowed as far as I read.
Its also worth more than 1 lb, the allowable "If you are doing something allowable and it effects somethign that isnt, you cant reduce it by more than 1lb" rule doesnt apply here. It's not being done to acheive an "allowable mod". Though the "wing" is free, you could get another trunk lid and if it wasnt more than 1 lb lighter, you *might* have an angle.
Of course if it wasnt more than 1 lb lighter than the steel trunk, it wouldnt be worth the $400 or whatever plus paint that it costs.
On to other things. Brakes are squarely in the crosshairs, but brakes make me nervous. Im not all that good at braking systems, and my experience is that they are awefully easy to futz up. An old BMW 2002tii that I raced in ITB for awhile comes to mind. :( Not a pleasant memory.
| Scooby South | 02-05-2007 02:54 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16930789]Can someone show me where swapping trunks is legal? I must have missed that in the rules.[/QUOTE]
For which class???? SM...Anything is legal...look @ Vic's car that has a fiberglass trunk..and CF hood...
for SP...not legal unless it came on a model here in the states...
See...here is one thing I am sure..
The KA motor is no problem...But what if he choose to put a SR20T motor in...those were NEVER in the states....on a Factory car...therefore makeing that particular swap illegal in SM...but since the KA motor was in a 240....then turbo'ing that is legal...in SM..
Bill
For which class???? SM...Anything is legal...look @ Vic's car that has a fiberglass trunk..and CF hood...
for SP...not legal unless it came on a model here in the states...
See...here is one thing I am sure..
The KA motor is no problem...But what if he choose to put a SR20T motor in...those were NEVER in the states....on a Factory car...therefore makeing that particular swap illegal in SM...but since the KA motor was in a 240....then turbo'ing that is legal...in SM..
Bill
| Scooby South | 02-05-2007 02:58 PM |
oh...forgot to mention...in the letter of the rules...How many cars have "secret" mods that the owner may or maynot know is legal or not.....oh..you think they are going to tell ya...:lol:....Hence why I doing my BSP thread to learn what the other guys CAN do...legal or not..;)..Oh yeah..if you can tell a lightweight trunk over a stock one just by looking at it...your my hero....otherwise..Structurely and physically you can not tell the difference between a group N Spec C Trunk or a OEM STi Trunk...they look EXACTLY the same...just a little bit of a Weight difference..;)
Bill
Bill
| j-rho | 02-05-2007 03:00 PM |
[QUOTE=adhowe70;16900455]Yes, he pays attention to details. You have to if you want to play in SM. I don't think he's doing anything that the rest of the top builders haven't done.[/QUOTE]Well, I did leave out the part about the satanic goat sacrifices carried out in the garage. Somehow I doubt Vic and Bob go to all the trouble of filling their tires with the dying gasps of wretched bovines, even if it is worth a tenth or two...
| afpdl | 02-05-2007 03:00 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16938802]For which class???? SM...Anything is legal...look @ Vic's car that has a fiberglass trunk..and CF hood...
for SP...not legal unless it came on a model here in the states...
See...here is one thing I am sure..
The KA motor is no problem...But what if he choose to put a SR20T motor in...those were NEVER in the states....on a Factory car...therefore makeing that particular swap illegal in SM...but since the KA motor was in a 240....then turbo'ing that is legal...in SM..
Bill[/QUOTE]
A carbon fiber hood is perfectly legal, changing the trunk puts you into prepared. Its not in the SM rule book there is no way around that.
for SP...not legal unless it came on a model here in the states...
See...here is one thing I am sure..
The KA motor is no problem...But what if he choose to put a SR20T motor in...those were NEVER in the states....on a Factory car...therefore makeing that particular swap illegal in SM...but since the KA motor was in a 240....then turbo'ing that is legal...in SM..
Bill[/QUOTE]
A carbon fiber hood is perfectly legal, changing the trunk puts you into prepared. Its not in the SM rule book there is no way around that.
| solo-x | 02-05-2007 03:03 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16938802]For which class???? SM...Anything is legal...look @ Vic's car that has a fiberglass trunk..and CF hood...
for SP...not legal unless it came on a model here in the states...
See...here is one thing I am sure..
The KA motor is no problem...But what if he choose to put a SR20T motor in...those were NEVER in the states....on a Factory car...therefore makeing that particular swap illegal in SM...but since the KA motor was in a 240....then turbo'ing that is legal...in SM..
Bill[/QUOTE]
teh r00lb00k pwn3z j00! The SR20DET is perfectly legal for SM.
for SP...not legal unless it came on a model here in the states...
See...here is one thing I am sure..
The KA motor is no problem...But what if he choose to put a SR20T motor in...those were NEVER in the states....on a Factory car...therefore makeing that particular swap illegal in SM...but since the KA motor was in a 240....then turbo'ing that is legal...in SM..
Bill[/QUOTE]
teh r00lb00k pwn3z j00! The SR20DET is perfectly legal for SM.
| Scooby South | 02-05-2007 03:12 PM |
[QUOTE=solo-x;16938958]teh r00lb00k pwn3z j00! [/QUOTE]
nice ninja edit...:lol: :lol:
nice ninja edit...:lol: :lol:
| Scooby South | 02-05-2007 03:30 PM |
[QUOTE=solo-x;16938958]teh r00lb00k pwn3z j00! The SR20DET is perfectly legal for SM.[/QUOTE]
Oh ...I guess a front mount is legal on a STi in SM also...:rolleyes:
Oh ...I guess a front mount is legal on a STi in SM also...:rolleyes:
| afpdl | 02-05-2007 03:32 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South;16938877]Structurely and physically you can not tell the difference between a group N Spec C Trunk or a OEM STi Trunk...they look EXACTLY the same...just a little bit of a Weight difference..;)
[/QUOTE]
They may look the same, but it takes about 2 secs to prove that someone has a spec c trunk.
And what does the sr20 not being in a us production car have to do with anything? That is explicity allowed in the rule book. The only reason it would be illegal is if you have to do an illegal modification to the car to get it to fit (like you do for a fmic)
[/QUOTE]
They may look the same, but it takes about 2 secs to prove that someone has a spec c trunk.
And what does the sr20 not being in a us production car have to do with anything? That is explicity allowed in the rule book. The only reason it would be illegal is if you have to do an illegal modification to the car to get it to fit (like you do for a fmic)
| Scooby South | 02-05-2007 03:49 PM |
[QUOTE]1. Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and
badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for
that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the
manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. [B]Swaps
involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents.[/B] Models produced as a joint venture
between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any
partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the
desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular
model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from
Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks
manufactured as production units for sale in other countries
such as Japan or Germany.[/QUOTE]
This DOES not say you can use a motor that was NOT sold in the US...
Bill
badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for
that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the
manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. [B]Swaps
involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents.[/B] Models produced as a joint venture
between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any
partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the
desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular
model (e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from
Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks
manufactured as production units for sale in other countries
such as Japan or Germany.[/QUOTE]
This DOES not say you can use a motor that was NOT sold in the US...
Bill
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