| dwx | 02-19-2004 02:30 PM |
[url]http://www.rsracing.com/rscatalog/asppages/rt-rrwet.asp[/url] . They have a picture of the dirt stockers and some pricing for them. You'd really want to run a 15" version and unfortunately there are very few 15" rims that'll fit over Subaru brakes. I have a set of 15x7 Speedline 2118 rally wheels though that I'm contemplating taking the rally tires off of and putting some 205/50/15 dirt stockers on, especially if I'm going to do more national events. I think most of the higher HP cars that ran them in Atlanta went through a set of them during the weekend though, very soft compound.
It'll be interesting to see if the AS04 rain tires are better than the Dirt Stockers.
Phil
It'll be interesting to see if the AS04 rain tires are better than the Dirt Stockers.
Phil
| Eric1855 | 02-19-2004 05:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SUV-ETR [/i]
[B]Well, that was with the Radials in the first session when I lined up against the black WRX (was that you, BlackWerks?).
[/B][/QUOTE]
That was me :D
I love to launch it off the line, but that damn hill...I was using the e-brake to stop the car from rolling and controlling my launches that way.
[B]Well, that was with the Radials in the first session when I lined up against the black WRX (was that you, BlackWerks?).
[/B][/QUOTE]
That was me :D
I love to launch it off the line, but that damn hill...I was using the e-brake to stop the car from rolling and controlling my launches that way.
| nate49509 | 02-19-2004 11:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BlackWerks [/i]
[B] ya gotta love gettin your ass tapped in your own car [/B][/QUOTE]
:devil:
[B] ya gotta love gettin your ass tapped in your own car [/B][/QUOTE]
:devil:
| mywrx2002 | 02-20-2004 01:14 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]If an STX competitor was running 104, he was illegal :)
Just because someone did something, doesn't mean its legal. An STX competitor last year ran w/o fog lights and roof rails at nationals. It was illegal, but because he finished low, no one protested him......
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
False !!
It states a D.O T approved fuel
MOTORSPORT 103
Motorsport 103 is VP's name for its street legal gasoline, designed for maximum power and throttle response. Motorsport 103 is an unleaded fuel of high octane that provides the power and protection equal to some leaded racing fuels. Meets California RFG Requirements. Recommended for: high performance street cars, boats, snowmobiles, personal water craft, motorcycles and high performance import cars. Spec fuel for Professional SportsCar in 1999.
� Color: Clear
� Unleaded
� R+M/2: 103
� Motor Octane: 99
� Specific Gravity: .743 at 60� F
here is just a FYI as it comes out of a normal gas station pump also carrying a Federal, state, and D.O.T compliance certificate
Secondly I saw some one post this .....albeit I'm a bit late here it is "I didnt realize that aftermarket BOVs are disallowed in STX, i thought for sure they WERE allowed in STX. "
The reason being from a protest form here ,where I had a person protest my car at a divisonal event after some questions about a GFB BOV that vents just like a O.E. unit were raised at a national event . It was found after he basicly picked himself off the tarmac from laughing so hard that is has about the "same effect as a miata having it's tow hooks turned 180 degrees around for performance " CLAIM DENIED !!
Now with that said I want to go out on a level playing field and have nice compatition, some people read way too much into rules and thats why I guess we have lawyers and the like to interpet them. Also if you can show me font on page that addresses either of these exactly and nothing else please post it up as I wnat to play nice this year when I get to finaly make it to an event
thanks :)
[B]If an STX competitor was running 104, he was illegal :)
Just because someone did something, doesn't mean its legal. An STX competitor last year ran w/o fog lights and roof rails at nationals. It was illegal, but because he finished low, no one protested him......
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
False !!
It states a D.O T approved fuel
MOTORSPORT 103
Motorsport 103 is VP's name for its street legal gasoline, designed for maximum power and throttle response. Motorsport 103 is an unleaded fuel of high octane that provides the power and protection equal to some leaded racing fuels. Meets California RFG Requirements. Recommended for: high performance street cars, boats, snowmobiles, personal water craft, motorcycles and high performance import cars. Spec fuel for Professional SportsCar in 1999.
� Color: Clear
� Unleaded
� R+M/2: 103
� Motor Octane: 99
� Specific Gravity: .743 at 60� F
here is just a FYI as it comes out of a normal gas station pump also carrying a Federal, state, and D.O.T compliance certificate
Secondly I saw some one post this .....albeit I'm a bit late here it is "I didnt realize that aftermarket BOVs are disallowed in STX, i thought for sure they WERE allowed in STX. "
The reason being from a protest form here ,where I had a person protest my car at a divisonal event after some questions about a GFB BOV that vents just like a O.E. unit were raised at a national event . It was found after he basicly picked himself off the tarmac from laughing so hard that is has about the "same effect as a miata having it's tow hooks turned 180 degrees around for performance " CLAIM DENIED !!
Now with that said I want to go out on a level playing field and have nice compatition, some people read way too much into rules and thats why I guess we have lawyers and the like to interpet them. Also if you can show me font on page that addresses either of these exactly and nothing else please post it up as I wnat to play nice this year when I get to finaly make it to an event
thanks :)
| MNbiker | 02-20-2004 06:45 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mywrx2002 [/i]
[B]False !!
It states a D.O T approved fuel
MOTORSPORT 103
Motorsport 103 is VP's name for its street legal gasoline, designed for maximum power and throttle response........[/B][/QUOTE]
umm....Tom didn't say anything about Motorsport 103 - he specifically mentioned 104, which is NOT intended for street use, at least not in the formulations I'm familiar with. Sunoco offers two high-octane unleaded racing fuels: GT100, which is 100 octane and street legal. This is totally legal for STX; GT Plus, which is 104 octane and NOT legal for STX.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mywrx2002 [/i]
[B]The reason being from a protest form here ,where I had a person protest my car at a divisonal event after some questions about a GFB BOV that vents just like a O.E. unit were raised at a national event . It was found after he basicly picked himself off the tarmac from laughing so hard that is has about the "same effect as a miata having it's tow hooks turned 180 degrees around for performance " CLAIM DENIED !![/B][/QUOTE]
I wouldn't recommend trying that at a National event.:rolleyes:
The issue is that some cars use the blow-off valve for boost control. This issue has been before the Protest Committee at least a couple times, and non-stock BOV's were ruled illegal. This is a BIG issue in the DSM camp, as stock BOV's are known to shorten the life of certain models, when aftermarket exhausts are used. Go post something on SCCAForums, and watch how fast JToby shows up to rant about how unfair the rules are for DSM's.:p
-Steve
[B]False !!
It states a D.O T approved fuel
MOTORSPORT 103
Motorsport 103 is VP's name for its street legal gasoline, designed for maximum power and throttle response........[/B][/QUOTE]
umm....Tom didn't say anything about Motorsport 103 - he specifically mentioned 104, which is NOT intended for street use, at least not in the formulations I'm familiar with. Sunoco offers two high-octane unleaded racing fuels: GT100, which is 100 octane and street legal. This is totally legal for STX; GT Plus, which is 104 octane and NOT legal for STX.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mywrx2002 [/i]
[B]The reason being from a protest form here ,where I had a person protest my car at a divisonal event after some questions about a GFB BOV that vents just like a O.E. unit were raised at a national event . It was found after he basicly picked himself off the tarmac from laughing so hard that is has about the "same effect as a miata having it's tow hooks turned 180 degrees around for performance " CLAIM DENIED !![/B][/QUOTE]
I wouldn't recommend trying that at a National event.:rolleyes:
The issue is that some cars use the blow-off valve for boost control. This issue has been before the Protest Committee at least a couple times, and non-stock BOV's were ruled illegal. This is a BIG issue in the DSM camp, as stock BOV's are known to shorten the life of certain models, when aftermarket exhausts are used. Go post something on SCCAForums, and watch how fast JToby shows up to rant about how unfair the rules are for DSM's.:p
-Steve
| KC | 02-20-2004 07:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mywrx2002[/i]
[B] False !!
It states a D.O T approved fuel
MOTORSPORT 103
Motorsport 103 is VP's name for its street legal gasoline, designed for maximum power and throttle response. Motorsport 103 is an unleaded fuel of high octane that provides the power and protection equal to some leaded racing fuels. [/B][/QUOTE]
Where can you find this fuel?
[B] False !!
It states a D.O T approved fuel
MOTORSPORT 103
Motorsport 103 is VP's name for its street legal gasoline, designed for maximum power and throttle response. Motorsport 103 is an unleaded fuel of high octane that provides the power and protection equal to some leaded racing fuels. [/B][/QUOTE]
Where can you find this fuel?
| mywrx2002 | 02-20-2004 09:14 AM |
KC;
It's at one of those "mom and pop" ( sorry no offence here it's a nice little place) stores with the 2 pumps out front and the one on the side of the building. I do have to travel a substancial distance to get it that way there are some places that have it either pre packaged in 5 gallon fuel cells and or out of drums I think.
[url]http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html?mgiToken=0C15B7C83689E6597B[/url]
^^^ Is a link to their website as I researched their product before I went on my quest for fuel :) :)
thanks
Jamey
It's at one of those "mom and pop" ( sorry no offence here it's a nice little place) stores with the 2 pumps out front and the one on the side of the building. I do have to travel a substancial distance to get it that way there are some places that have it either pre packaged in 5 gallon fuel cells and or out of drums I think.
[url]http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html?mgiToken=0C15B7C83689E6597B[/url]
^^^ Is a link to their website as I researched their product before I went on my quest for fuel :) :)
thanks
Jamey
| MNbiker | 02-20-2004 09:17 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Where can you find this fuel? [/B][/QUOTE]
Not quite as easy to find as Sunoco, but dealers are around. Real popular with the NHRA crowd. (More for their C16 than the 103)
[URL=http://www.vpracingfuels.com/]VP Racing Fuels[/URL]
Pretty spendy, compared to GT100. Are 3 octane points worth the extra $2-$4/gallon?
-Steve
[B]Where can you find this fuel? [/B][/QUOTE]
Not quite as easy to find as Sunoco, but dealers are around. Real popular with the NHRA crowd. (More for their C16 than the 103)
[URL=http://www.vpracingfuels.com/]VP Racing Fuels[/URL]
Pretty spendy, compared to GT100. Are 3 octane points worth the extra $2-$4/gallon?
-Steve
| mywrx2002 | 02-20-2004 09:18 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker [/i]
[B]umm....Tom didn't say anything about Motorsport 103 - he specifically mentioned 104, which is NOT intended for street use, at least not in the formulations I'm familiar with. Sunoco offers two high-octane unleaded racing fuels: GT100, which is 100 octane and street legal. This is totally legal for STX; GT Plus, which is 104 octane and NOT legal for STX.
I wouldn't recommend trying that at a National event.:rolleyes:
The issue is that some cars use the blow-off valve for boost control. This issue has been before the Protest Committee at least a couple times, and non-stock BOV's were ruled illegal. This is a BIG issue in the DSM camp, as stock BOV's are known to shorten the life of certain models, when aftermarket exhausts are used. Go post something on SCCAForums, and watch how fast JToby shows up to rant about how unfair the rules are for DSM's.:p
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Well Steve I better not post over there, I don't want anyones feathers ruffled. I just kinda find it silly that this was installed on a EDM car because the factory BOV was leaking and the price differential was all but nothing between a O.E piece of ok quality and this GFB one of exceptional quality and ease of repair, to me it seemed like a no brainer
[B]umm....Tom didn't say anything about Motorsport 103 - he specifically mentioned 104, which is NOT intended for street use, at least not in the formulations I'm familiar with. Sunoco offers two high-octane unleaded racing fuels: GT100, which is 100 octane and street legal. This is totally legal for STX; GT Plus, which is 104 octane and NOT legal for STX.
I wouldn't recommend trying that at a National event.:rolleyes:
The issue is that some cars use the blow-off valve for boost control. This issue has been before the Protest Committee at least a couple times, and non-stock BOV's were ruled illegal. This is a BIG issue in the DSM camp, as stock BOV's are known to shorten the life of certain models, when aftermarket exhausts are used. Go post something on SCCAForums, and watch how fast JToby shows up to rant about how unfair the rules are for DSM's.:p
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Well Steve I better not post over there, I don't want anyones feathers ruffled. I just kinda find it silly that this was installed on a EDM car because the factory BOV was leaking and the price differential was all but nothing between a O.E piece of ok quality and this GFB one of exceptional quality and ease of repair, to me it seemed like a no brainer
| KC | 02-20-2004 09:35 AM |
So it's branded as 'Racing Gas' since it's from VP "Racing" Fuels.
If I were you, I'd get a rulebook and look up the terminology about what constitues pump gas vs. racing gas. There's actually something in the rule book IIRC (don't have it handy) that states gas like this actually [I]isn't[/I] legal.
Anyone got a 2004 rulebook handy? It's not part of the the Stock classing, but a previous section... I'm thinking seciton 3 or something like that.
--kC
If I were you, I'd get a rulebook and look up the terminology about what constitues pump gas vs. racing gas. There's actually something in the rule book IIRC (don't have it handy) that states gas like this actually [I]isn't[/I] legal.
Anyone got a 2004 rulebook handy? It's not part of the the Stock classing, but a previous section... I'm thinking seciton 3 or something like that.
--kC
| jbrennen | 02-20-2004 09:49 AM |
From the online Moutons site ([url]http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/misc.html[/url]) we have:
[quote]
A. Stock Class vehicles will use service station pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is "Federally approved for use on public highways". This does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at service station pumps.
[/quote]
So whether it's available at the pump is irrelevant. It must be federally approved for use on public highways -- which really means that it is taxed as gasoline for all purposes. Leaded fuels (or other fuels) not legal for highway use aren't subject to the same tax structure.
Based on the VP Racing Fuels site, they say that Motorsport 103 is "street legal gasoline" -- which I would guess means that it is federally approved.
[quote]
A. Stock Class vehicles will use service station pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is "Federally approved for use on public highways". This does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at service station pumps.
[/quote]
So whether it's available at the pump is irrelevant. It must be federally approved for use on public highways -- which really means that it is taxed as gasoline for all purposes. Leaded fuels (or other fuels) not legal for highway use aren't subject to the same tax structure.
Based on the VP Racing Fuels site, they say that Motorsport 103 is "street legal gasoline" -- which I would guess means that it is federally approved.
| KC | 02-20-2004 10:30 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jbrennen[/i]
[B] This does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at service station pumps.
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the line I was looking for. Thanks.
What's everyones take on this? It's sold and marketed as a 'racing type fuel available at service station pumps'.
It's available at a service station, sure it's federally approved, but the last line is the fly in the ointmnet.... but to me, it's clearly a 'racing-type fuel.' It's made by VP [I]RACING[/I] Fuels. At that mom & pop place mentioned earlier... what's the main brand of gasoline? Can you get VP 89? 91? 93?
--kC
[B] This does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at service station pumps.
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the line I was looking for. Thanks.
What's everyones take on this? It's sold and marketed as a 'racing type fuel available at service station pumps'.
It's available at a service station, sure it's federally approved, but the last line is the fly in the ointmnet.... but to me, it's clearly a 'racing-type fuel.' It's made by VP [I]RACING[/I] Fuels. At that mom & pop place mentioned earlier... what's the main brand of gasoline? Can you get VP 89? 91? 93?
--kC
| dwx | 02-20-2004 10:46 AM |
I just don't think it's worth debating. The gain you are going to see using 100 versus 103/104 on a STX car is going to be minimal at best.
| jbrennen | 02-20-2004 10:49 AM |
I interpreted the sentence ("...does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at ... pumps") to indicate that the actual method of dispensing the fuel is not really relevant.
In other words, if a service station sells non federally approved gasoline from a pump, it's still not "pump fuel", because they specifically define pump fuel as "federally approved..."
I think someone using federally approved highway gasoline is legal based on the first two sentences of 3.6.A. If we choose to believe that the third sentence outlaws gasoline which is marketed as a "racing-type fuel", then we end up with a silly situation where a fuel supplier can only sell 103 octane gasoline to Stock and ST class competitors if he doesn't actually market the product as competition fuel.
In other words, if a service station sells non federally approved gasoline from a pump, it's still not "pump fuel", because they specifically define pump fuel as "federally approved..."
I think someone using federally approved highway gasoline is legal based on the first two sentences of 3.6.A. If we choose to believe that the third sentence outlaws gasoline which is marketed as a "racing-type fuel", then we end up with a silly situation where a fuel supplier can only sell 103 octane gasoline to Stock and ST class competitors if he doesn't actually market the product as competition fuel.
| jbrennen | 02-20-2004 10:51 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dwx [/i]
[B]I just don't think it's worth debating. The gain you are going to see using 100 versus 103/104 on a STX car is going to be minimal at best. [/B][/QUOTE]
People have been successfully protested over smaller issues than this one. :o
[B]I just don't think it's worth debating. The gain you are going to see using 100 versus 103/104 on a STX car is going to be minimal at best. [/B][/QUOTE]
People have been successfully protested over smaller issues than this one. :o
| mywrx2002 | 02-20-2004 11:23 AM |
Heck guys didn't mean to cause such a stir, as I said earlier we almost all need a lawyer with us.
The thing I want to say though is since this is pump fuel, carries a dept. of Trans. tax stamp I would almost find it impossible to argue that you can't classify this as a standard road fuel. Oh, and yes they make lower octanes although they don't sell well due to being like specialy liquors they are "small batch"
THe only reason I would run it is as alot of people know the #3 cyl. leans out badly and throws a CEL and this should prevent it
The thing I want to say though is since this is pump fuel, carries a dept. of Trans. tax stamp I would almost find it impossible to argue that you can't classify this as a standard road fuel. Oh, and yes they make lower octanes although they don't sell well due to being like specialy liquors they are "small batch"
THe only reason I would run it is as alot of people know the #3 cyl. leans out badly and throws a CEL and this should prevent it
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