| eclip5e | 11-05-2004 07:24 PM |
Attn: Caged WRX owners
�
�
I've been bumped into Street Prepared for the COM track days. This means I need a cage.
Anyone have pics of your back seat with a cage installed? I'd like to see how useless the back seat will really become.
Anyone have pics of your back seat with a cage installed? I'd like to see how useless the back seat will really become.
| smorris | 11-06-2004 10:29 AM |
With a cage in your car it is really unsafe to have persons riding in the back due to thier exsposure to the cage itself. I have a cage in mine and just went ahead and reemoved the back seats so I would not be tempted to put someone back there. But, there is enough room to put a smal person back there.
| ChrisDP | 11-06-2004 02:06 PM |
Do you need a full 6-point rollcage? or will a 4-point rollbar work for your rules?
I don't have a cage in my car, but I know a bit about cages and have seen a few different caged WRXs... The rearmost tubes will pretty much require you to bend the upper seat back cushion around them. The outer edges will need to squish around them, and the outer seatback mounting points probably won't get clicked into place. You might be able to wrestle them in.
As for rear seat usage, groceries are pretty much the only thing the backseat will be useful for. As far back as the WRX front seats sit, the harness bar would basically be in the face of any rear seat passengers, and they'd have solid metal running right beside their head on the rear downtubes.
I don't have a cage in my car, but I know a bit about cages and have seen a few different caged WRXs... The rearmost tubes will pretty much require you to bend the upper seat back cushion around them. The outer edges will need to squish around them, and the outer seatback mounting points probably won't get clicked into place. You might be able to wrestle them in.
As for rear seat usage, groceries are pretty much the only thing the backseat will be useful for. As far back as the WRX front seats sit, the harness bar would basically be in the face of any rear seat passengers, and they'd have solid metal running right beside their head on the rear downtubes.
| Innovative Tuning | 11-06-2004 07:58 PM |
PM sent
| xstar | 11-06-2004 10:27 PM |
[QUOTE=eclip5e]I've been bumped into Street Prepared for the COM track days. This means I need a cage.
Anyone have pics of your back seat with a cage installed? I'd like to see how useless the back seat will really become.[/QUOTE]
Why are you in SPB?
Anyone have pics of your back seat with a cage installed? I'd like to see how useless the back seat will really become.[/QUOTE]
Why are you in SPB?
| CTKAG | 11-07-2004 08:34 PM |
If you are in SPB, you will also need a fire suit and a SA rated helmet.
SPB allows rear seat removal. It's pretty much impossible to get into the back seat anyway with the roll bar installed. I have the Autopower bolt-in bar.
-Keith-
SPB # 116
SPB allows rear seat removal. It's pretty much impossible to get into the back seat anyway with the roll bar installed. I have the Autopower bolt-in bar.
-Keith-
SPB # 116
| eclip5e | 11-08-2004 02:20 AM |
[QUOTE=xstar]Why are you in SPB?[/QUOTE]
According to the rule book, Any power modifications put me in SP. I've done an uppipe, downpipe and ECU. My HP is over stock now.
According to the rule book, Any power modifications put me in SP. I've done an uppipe, downpipe and ECU. My HP is over stock now.
| santofontana | 11-11-2004 01:46 PM |
I need a rollbar for SP too, and I have a wagon. Where can I get one?
| Gravel Girl | 11-11-2004 02:17 PM |
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428869[/url]
How to build a cage
How to build a cage
| Georgethefierce | 11-11-2004 02:17 PM |
[QUOTE=eclip5e]According to the rule book, Any power modifications put me in SP. I've done an uppipe, downpipe and ECU. My HP is over stock now.[/QUOTE]
You are in ST1 with the rest of us
You are in ST1 with the rest of us
| Georgethefierce | 11-11-2004 02:17 PM |
Alex Joe and I all have similar mods to yours and all run in ST1
| elgorey | 11-11-2004 03:53 PM |
[QUOTE=Gravel Girl][url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428869[/url]
How to build a cage[/QUOTE]
I hope you are kidding. That cage is an absolute joke. Scratch that, the entire [i]car[/i] is a joke.
How to build a cage[/QUOTE]
I hope you are kidding. That cage is an absolute joke. Scratch that, the entire [i]car[/i] is a joke.
| Gravel Girl | 11-11-2004 04:13 PM |
[QUOTE=elgorey]I hope you are kidding. That cage is an absolute joke. Scratch that, the entire [i]car[/i] is a joke.[/QUOTE]
:huh: If you seriously think that... YOU are a joke. :rolleyes:
:huh: If you seriously think that... YOU are a joke. :rolleyes:
| Gravel Girl | 11-11-2004 04:16 PM |
:rolleyes: yeah... a real joke... :rolleyes:
[IMG]http://www.speedoptions.com/articles/4553/pic00.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.speedoptions.com/articles/4553/pic39.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.speedoptions.com/articles/4553/pic01.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.speedoptions.com/articles/4553/index.php?pg=2[/url]
[IMG]http://www.speedoptions.com/articles/4553/pic00.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.speedoptions.com/articles/4553/pic39.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.speedoptions.com/articles/4553/pic01.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.speedoptions.com/articles/4553/index.php?pg=2[/url]
| Gravel Girl | 11-11-2004 04:18 PM |
[QUOTE=elgorey]I hope you are kidding. That cage is an absolute joke. Scratch that, the entire [i]car[/i] is a joke.[/QUOTE]
I bet you prefer a 'bolt in' cage. :rolleyes:
You're an idiot. :rolleyes:
I bet you prefer a 'bolt in' cage. :rolleyes:
You're an idiot. :rolleyes:
| Gravel Spray | 11-11-2004 04:19 PM |
That car is pretty funny.
| Subie Gal | 11-11-2004 04:29 PM |
this shows how useless a rear seat is with a real cage in place
[img]http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/painted1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/painted.jpg[/img]
but I would Imagine, if you did have to go into this class you'd just need a 4 point or a bolt in harness bar? - those are much less obtrusive when done correctly.
Sounds like, from what the guys are saying... you dont need one tho :)
hope this helps.
[url=http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/final%20preparation.htm][b]More Cage Photos here <---[/b][/url]
jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
[img]http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/painted1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/painted.jpg[/img]
but I would Imagine, if you did have to go into this class you'd just need a 4 point or a bolt in harness bar? - those are much less obtrusive when done correctly.
Sounds like, from what the guys are saying... you dont need one tho :)
hope this helps.
[url=http://www.subiegal.com/sgracing/wrx%20wagon/final%20preparations/final%20preparation.htm][b]More Cage Photos here <---[/b][/url]
jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
| Chaste Automotive | 11-11-2004 05:14 PM |
If you are going to do a roll cage get it done correctly. A roll cage can be more of a hazard if it is not done properly since you may have a flase sense of security. To get an idea of cage design check out our website there is a list of subaru roll cage kits in the safety section. You can see the diagram that should give you an idea.
| sunnynw | 11-11-2004 05:19 PM |
There are a lot of good cage pictures here:
[url]http://cages.jive.net/gallery/albums.php[/url]
And check out Specialstage.com for other helpful cage tips. ;)
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=1322&forum=DCForumID8[/url]
[url]http://cages.jive.net/gallery/albums.php[/url]
And check out Specialstage.com for other helpful cage tips. ;)
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=1322&forum=DCForumID8[/url]
| eclip5e | 11-12-2004 11:37 AM |
[QUOTE=Georgethefierce]Alex Joe and I all have similar mods to yours and all run in ST1[/QUOTE]
any of you guys have rollbars I could check out?
any of you guys have rollbars I could check out?
| akuhner | 11-12-2004 12:56 PM |
[QUOTE=Gravel Girl]:huh: If you seriously think that... YOU are a joke. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Sorry, that car is a joke no matter how much you covet it. :lol: I'm sure those guys are now capable of building a real cage, but they lost all their credibility putting a seat in the back and making room for amps and sound. And that stupid curved tube coming out of the front of the strut tower, what does that do?
One thing nobody has mentioned is that once you put a cage in you can no longer use a stock 3pt seat belt, you must use a 5 or 6pt. And you must put both the lap belts and BOTH shoulder belts on every time. You have to keep yourself in the seat and away from the cage at all costs. It's not really safe to drive a caged car with no helmet, but some times there's no way around that. Rally cars do transits without helmets, and some people have no choice but to drive their caged cars on the street, but it's less than ideal. Cage padding should be the super high density foam, which feels like a brick to your head, but in an accident with your helmet on it will really soften the impact. If your cage padding gives to the touch, it's useless.
Alex
One thing nobody has mentioned is that once you put a cage in you can no longer use a stock 3pt seat belt, you must use a 5 or 6pt. And you must put both the lap belts and BOTH shoulder belts on every time. You have to keep yourself in the seat and away from the cage at all costs. It's not really safe to drive a caged car with no helmet, but some times there's no way around that. Rally cars do transits without helmets, and some people have no choice but to drive their caged cars on the street, but it's less than ideal. Cage padding should be the super high density foam, which feels like a brick to your head, but in an accident with your helmet on it will really soften the impact. If your cage padding gives to the touch, it's useless.
Alex
| gswrx | 11-12-2004 01:25 PM |
Call rally innovations.
Rallyinnovations.com
G
Rallyinnovations.com
G
| InfamousDX | 11-12-2004 02:07 PM |
Yea....
[QUOTE=recce02]This car is our Rally teams show car it will be used for shows and for demonstration purposes. And it will race a couple of rally-x. The cage is not fully legal to do real stages.
metal flake? We don't need a friggin bass boat runnin around.:lol:[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=recce02]This car is our Rally teams show car it will be used for shows and for demonstration purposes. And it will race a couple of rally-x. The cage is not fully legal to do real stages.
metal flake? We don't need a friggin bass boat runnin around.:lol:[/QUOTE]
| Georgethefierce | 11-12-2004 05:38 PM |
[QUOTE=eclip5e]any of you guys have rollbars I could check out?[/QUOTE]
nope none of us are caged
YET!
nope none of us are caged
YET!
| Recce01 | 11-12-2004 06:53 PM |
i guess you are right....
�
�
[QUOTE=Car #187]Sorry, that car is a joke no matter how much you covet it. :lol: I'm sure those guys are now capable of building a real cage, but they lost all their credibility putting a seat in the back and making room for amps and sound. And that stupid curved tube coming out of the front of the strut tower, what does that do?
One thing nobody has mentioned is that once you put a cage in you can no longer use a stock 3pt seat belt, you must use a 5 or 6pt. And you must put both the lap belts and BOTH shoulder belts on every time. You have to keep yourself in the seat and away from the cage at all costs. It's not really safe to drive a caged car with no helmet, but some times there's no way around that. Rally cars do transits without helmets, and some people have no choice but to drive their caged cars on the street, but it's less than ideal. Cage padding should be the super high density foam, which feels like a brick to your head, but in an accident with your helmet on it will really soften the impact. If your cage padding gives to the touch, it's useless.
Alex[/QUOTE]
My car is a joke, as well as my racing record, and my credibility as a cage builder.......you are right!
One thing nobody has mentioned is that once you put a cage in you can no longer use a stock 3pt seat belt, you must use a 5 or 6pt. And you must put both the lap belts and BOTH shoulder belts on every time. You have to keep yourself in the seat and away from the cage at all costs. It's not really safe to drive a caged car with no helmet, but some times there's no way around that. Rally cars do transits without helmets, and some people have no choice but to drive their caged cars on the street, but it's less than ideal. Cage padding should be the super high density foam, which feels like a brick to your head, but in an accident with your helmet on it will really soften the impact. If your cage padding gives to the touch, it's useless.
Alex[/QUOTE]
My car is a joke, as well as my racing record, and my credibility as a cage builder.......you are right!
| Recce01 | 11-12-2004 07:00 PM |
..........
�
�
[QUOTE=Car #187] And that stupid curved tube coming out of the front of the strut tower, what does that do?
[/QUOTE]
It connects the front stru....um, actually, it is obviously too complicated, so nevermind. It is a useless tube we had laying around the shop and it fit there, so we welded it in. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
It connects the front stru....um, actually, it is obviously too complicated, so nevermind. It is a useless tube we had laying around the shop and it fit there, so we welded it in. :rolleyes:
| Gravel Girl | 11-12-2004 07:01 PM |
Yeah... I guess placing first at every event you've competed in, and the fact that you have people hounding you non-stop to build cages for them, and the fact that you car has been featured in at least two national magazines including a 5 page spread in car audio and electronics� just doesn�t count for a thing!
| Gravel Girl | 11-12-2004 07:04 PM |
[QUOTE=elgorey]I hope you are kidding. That cage is an absolute joke. Scratch that, the entire [i]car[/i] is a joke.[/QUOTE]
Oh... since you're the expert and all... why don't you post pics of the car [I]you[/I] caged.... or have you??? :rolleyes:
Oh... since you're the expert and all... why don't you post pics of the car [I]you[/I] caged.... or have you??? :rolleyes:
| Gravel Girl | 11-12-2004 07:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Recce01]It connects the front stru....um, actually, it is obviously too complicated, so nevermind. It is a useless tube we had laying around the shop and it fit there, so we welded it in. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Maybe next time we can invite Car#187 & elgorey over for them to edjumacate us on how to do it properly :rolleyes: :lol: :rolleyes:
Maybe next time we can invite Car#187 & elgorey over for them to edjumacate us on how to do it properly :rolleyes: :lol: :rolleyes:
| Recce01 | 11-12-2004 07:11 PM |
leave them alone
| Gravel Girl | 11-12-2004 07:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Recce01]leave them alone[/QUOTE]
You're right... they couldn't recognize 'cool' if they fell into the Arctic.
You're right... they couldn't recognize 'cool' if they fell into the Arctic.
| sunnynw | 11-12-2004 07:28 PM |
Wow...sounds like OT in here.
| akuhner | 11-12-2004 07:57 PM |
[QUOTE=Recce01]It connects the front stru....um, actually, it is obviously too complicated, so nevermind. It is a useless tube we had laying around the shop and it fit there, so we welded it in. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] :lol: ...still
| Recce01 | 11-12-2004 07:59 PM |
..
�
�
[QUOTE=Car #187]:lol: ...still[/QUOTE]
yeah it is..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
yeah it is..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
| akuhner | 11-12-2004 08:07 PM |
The poor guy who started this thread asked about a cage for a specific form of competition, and Gravel Girl posted a link to a cage that was built for show. That doesn't do the guy any service at all. The fact that you rally-x that car is irrelevant, I've seen cars towed from junkards, and rental cars do rally-x and do just fine. Good for you if you are fast, but your cage is still pretty funny. Calling it a "recce car" is all well and good, but means nothing. None of it is relevant to this guys request for information about a competition spec cage. A Pinto with an SCCA or FIA spec cage would be more relevant to the question....
| Rallycarperson | 11-12-2004 08:37 PM |
:lol:
-Mark
MAPmotors.com
-Mark
MAPmotors.com
| Gravel Spray | 11-12-2004 08:54 PM |
:lol: still, as long as this thread is up here, I'm :lol:
| drivinswine | 11-12-2004 10:47 PM |
fwiw, here is my bar in progress, bolt in, x brace to be done by January, its for open road racing so prob not SCCA etc
[IMG]http://home.comcast.net/~jkyle99/image/Bar.JPG[/IMG] compliant
[IMG]http://home.comcast.net/~jkyle99/image/Bar.JPG[/IMG] compliant
| ChrisDP | 11-13-2004 11:02 AM |
drivinswine,
what rulebook is it being built around? The bends in the rear hoop supports concern me.
what rulebook is it being built around? The bends in the rear hoop supports concern me.
| Gravel Spray | 11-13-2004 12:07 PM |
:lol: :lol: :lol:
| sabaka95 | 11-13-2004 06:56 PM |
[QUOTE=ChrisDP]drivinswine,
what rulebook is it being built around? The bends in the rear hoop supports concern me.[/QUOTE]
It concerns me too. If you want the cage to be correct make sure you go to someone that can TIG weld chrome moly.
My Sti has a race cage in it and it runs along the roof line and just short of the back window through the deck into the trunk.
There is just as much room in the back seat as ever. If you are 6'4 there was never enough room in the back seat anyway.
NHRA rules are that the cage has to be padded any where it can come in contact with your head.
[IMG]http://img129.exs.cx/img129/138/newinterior.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img129.exs.cx/img129/605/newinterior1.jpg[/IMG]
what rulebook is it being built around? The bends in the rear hoop supports concern me.[/QUOTE]
It concerns me too. If you want the cage to be correct make sure you go to someone that can TIG weld chrome moly.
My Sti has a race cage in it and it runs along the roof line and just short of the back window through the deck into the trunk.
There is just as much room in the back seat as ever. If you are 6'4 there was never enough room in the back seat anyway.
NHRA rules are that the cage has to be padded any where it can come in contact with your head.
[IMG]http://img129.exs.cx/img129/138/newinterior.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img129.exs.cx/img129/605/newinterior1.jpg[/IMG]
| Zephyr | 11-13-2004 07:43 PM |
[QUOTE=eclip5e]This means I need a cage.[/QUOTE]
Do you need a roll bar or a roll cage? It sounds like for what you are doing you just need roll over protection and therefore a simple roll bar should be all that is needed. Since you have a GM8 you're going to have to get a custom one done since no one makes a bolt in unit.
Here are some pictures of mine that I had done last year. I have Sparco belts in there too. [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434890]Roll bar pictures[/URL]
Z
Do you need a roll bar or a roll cage? It sounds like for what you are doing you just need roll over protection and therefore a simple roll bar should be all that is needed. Since you have a GM8 you're going to have to get a custom one done since no one makes a bolt in unit.
Here are some pictures of mine that I had done last year. I have Sparco belts in there too. [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434890]Roll bar pictures[/URL]
Z
| Zephyr | 11-13-2004 07:48 PM |
[QUOTE=drivinswine]fwiw, here is my bar in progress, bolt in, x brace to be done by January, its for open road racing so prob not SCCA etc
[IMG]http://home.comcast.net/~jkyle99/image/Bar.JPG[/IMG] compliant[/QUOTE]
This bar is not compliant for any roadracing events. According to both the NASA and SCCA CCR's the downtubes can NOT have bends in them as yours do. You might want to correct that before you show up to an event and have to go home because you don't pass tech.
Z
[IMG]http://home.comcast.net/~jkyle99/image/Bar.JPG[/IMG] compliant[/QUOTE]
This bar is not compliant for any roadracing events. According to both the NASA and SCCA CCR's the downtubes can NOT have bends in them as yours do. You might want to correct that before you show up to an event and have to go home because you don't pass tech.
Z
| drivinswine | 11-13-2004 10:07 PM |
That is correct, I am having an x pattern bolt in brace made in the next month or two, its for open road racing but I think with the x brace from hoop to rear mounts I should be in compliance
| elgorey | 11-13-2004 11:09 PM |
[QUOTE=Gravel Girl]:huh: If you seriously think that... YOU are a joke. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
First thing Gravel Girl, take a look at where you are. [b]Motorsports Forum[/b]
[QUOTE=Gravel Girl]you car has been featured in at least two national magazines including a [b]5 page spread in car audio and electronics[/b]� just doesn�t count for a thing![/QUOTE]
Its not "Tiiite I.C.E Forum y0!" That means we talk about real racing here. With real racecars and driving on real racetracks. NOT some riced out abominations with subz, TVs and jungle gym "roll cages"
Tell me, what [i]motorsport[/i] class is your car built for?
But lets go ahead and pick apart your thread about your car anyway. Thread is located in the [b]Car Audio, Video & Security [/b] forum. (file under: obvious foreshadowing. I should have seen it coming)
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428869&page=1&pp=25[/url]
thinking at first that I am infact reading a thread on a worthwhile cage buildup, I look at one of the first pics of the tubing and think "gee, thats really narrow tubing. must just be a rally thing, they do some goofy things with cages sometimes. no worries"
[img]http://kamikazeracing.com/gc/17.jpg[/img]
read along, fab work looks pretty good, not as aligned as close to the car as I would have it done, but no big deal. No harness bar, but see above.
Then some goofy crap about sub boxes and stereos. Im sure they arent talking about the same car, right?
Oh no, I was wrong. This is where it goes downhill, and fast
[img]http://kamikazeracing.com/gc/207.jpg[/img]
skimmed over the rest of the garbage, as it only gets worse.
here we have a [i]backseat[/i] mounted in the middle, with a TV screen (y0!)
passenger sitting in the middle of the cage.
I would point out that there is no rear diagonal, but that would be pretty redundant at this point
[img]http://kamikazeracing.com/gc/320.jpg[/img] can you say "amusement park ride" ?
and as if that didnt seal the deal right there, here it is straight from you
[QUOTE=recce02]This car is our Rally teams [b]show car[/b] it will be [b]used for shows and for demonstration purposes.[/b] And it will race a couple of rally-x. [b]The cage is not fully legal[/b] to do real stages.[/QUOTE]
and there we have it.
another reminder: this is the [i]motorsports[/i] forum.
look, no one cares if you want to spend your money on this type of thing, but if you try to pass this garbage off as a real rollcage in a motorsports forum you are going to get called on it for spreading misinformation to a guy who is researching cages.
Keep it in the appearance, or audio, or whatever forum. Bottom line: someone shows up to the track with a cage like that, they get laughed all the way back out.
First thing Gravel Girl, take a look at where you are. [b]Motorsports Forum[/b]
[QUOTE=Gravel Girl]you car has been featured in at least two national magazines including a [b]5 page spread in car audio and electronics[/b]� just doesn�t count for a thing![/QUOTE]
Its not "Tiiite I.C.E Forum y0!" That means we talk about real racing here. With real racecars and driving on real racetracks. NOT some riced out abominations with subz, TVs and jungle gym "roll cages"
Tell me, what [i]motorsport[/i] class is your car built for?
But lets go ahead and pick apart your thread about your car anyway. Thread is located in the [b]Car Audio, Video & Security [/b] forum. (file under: obvious foreshadowing. I should have seen it coming)
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428869&page=1&pp=25[/url]
thinking at first that I am infact reading a thread on a worthwhile cage buildup, I look at one of the first pics of the tubing and think "gee, thats really narrow tubing. must just be a rally thing, they do some goofy things with cages sometimes. no worries"
[img]http://kamikazeracing.com/gc/17.jpg[/img]
read along, fab work looks pretty good, not as aligned as close to the car as I would have it done, but no big deal. No harness bar, but see above.
Then some goofy crap about sub boxes and stereos. Im sure they arent talking about the same car, right?
Oh no, I was wrong. This is where it goes downhill, and fast
[img]http://kamikazeracing.com/gc/207.jpg[/img]
skimmed over the rest of the garbage, as it only gets worse.
here we have a [i]backseat[/i] mounted in the middle, with a TV screen (y0!)
passenger sitting in the middle of the cage.
I would point out that there is no rear diagonal, but that would be pretty redundant at this point
[img]http://kamikazeracing.com/gc/320.jpg[/img] can you say "amusement park ride" ?
and as if that didnt seal the deal right there, here it is straight from you
[QUOTE=recce02]This car is our Rally teams [b]show car[/b] it will be [b]used for shows and for demonstration purposes.[/b] And it will race a couple of rally-x. [b]The cage is not fully legal[/b] to do real stages.[/QUOTE]
and there we have it.
another reminder: this is the [i]motorsports[/i] forum.
look, no one cares if you want to spend your money on this type of thing, but if you try to pass this garbage off as a real rollcage in a motorsports forum you are going to get called on it for spreading misinformation to a guy who is researching cages.
Keep it in the appearance, or audio, or whatever forum. Bottom line: someone shows up to the track with a cage like that, they get laughed all the way back out.
| akuhner | 11-13-2004 11:51 PM |
[QUOTE=drivinswine]That is correct, I am having an x pattern bolt in brace made in the next month or two, its for open road racing but I think with the x brace from hoop to rear mounts I should be in compliance[/QUOTE] What is "open road racing?" I'm starting to think you don't mean you'll be on a track. It is not a good idea to put any type of cage in that's not compliant with rules of at least one sactioning body - even if you will never have to pass tech don't you want your "cage" to be engineered to protect you the best it can? If not, what's the point?
| akuhner | 11-13-2004 11:58 PM |
Recce01 and I have taken this offline and made good, BUT seeing that picture of the back seat again, I just have to say something. I know you've used it successfully and nobody has been hurt YET, but I'd hate to see someone die back there when you have an accident. I'm sure you are aware that harnesses have give, and they have more give than the distance from that guy's face to the cage. The belts will stretch enough for his head to play pinball with those bars! If the rear passenger doesn't die when you eventually roll or challenge a tree, he better at least have some really good dental insurance!! :eek:
Alex
Alex
| drivinswine | 11-13-2004 11:59 PM |
[QUOTE=Car #187]What is "open road racing?" I'm starting to think you don't mean you'll be on a track. It is not a good idea to put any type of cage in that's not compliant with rules of at least one sactioning body - even if you will never have to pass tech don't you want your "cage" to be engineered to protect you the best it can? If not, what's the point?[/QUOTE]
Its a work in progress, as I move up in speed classes I will make it a full cage, all it takes is $$, and I won't race until May. It will have the proper rear bracing by then, track days are fun but Im still driving the car almost daily and the track takes a pretty heavy toll on the car.
[URL=http://www.openroadracing.com/]http://www.openroadracing.com/[/URL]
Its a work in progress, as I move up in speed classes I will make it a full cage, all it takes is $$, and I won't race until May. It will have the proper rear bracing by then, track days are fun but Im still driving the car almost daily and the track takes a pretty heavy toll on the car.
[URL=http://www.openroadracing.com/]http://www.openroadracing.com/[/URL]
| Zephyr | 11-14-2004 11:32 AM |
[QUOTE=drivinswine]That is correct, I am having an x pattern bolt in brace made in the next month or two, its for open road racing but I think with the x brace from hoop to rear mounts I should be in compliance[/QUOTE]
The problem is that the down tubes from the hoop have a bend in them which is not allowed with either the NASA or SCCA rules.
From the NASA CCR's
15.5.11 Rear Braces
The main hoop must have two (2) braces extending to the rear. The braces shall be attached as near as possible to the top of the main hoop, and no more than six (6) inches below the top. The braces must not contain any bends. There must be at least 30 degrees between the plane of the main hoop and the plane of the rear braces. The main hoop rear braces shall be installed to form no more than a one hundred five (105) degree angle or no less than a seventy (75) degree angle with the main hoop when viewed from the top. The main hoop braces may be mounted at the rear shock mounts or suspension pickup points (providing that the braces remain in compliance with
all other sections of the CCR). They may go through any rear bulkheads provided the bulkhead is sealed around the cage braces.
This is your life that this cage is going to be protecting. Don't go about it half assed.
Z
The problem is that the down tubes from the hoop have a bend in them which is not allowed with either the NASA or SCCA rules.
From the NASA CCR's
15.5.11 Rear Braces
The main hoop must have two (2) braces extending to the rear. The braces shall be attached as near as possible to the top of the main hoop, and no more than six (6) inches below the top. The braces must not contain any bends. There must be at least 30 degrees between the plane of the main hoop and the plane of the rear braces. The main hoop rear braces shall be installed to form no more than a one hundred five (105) degree angle or no less than a seventy (75) degree angle with the main hoop when viewed from the top. The main hoop braces may be mounted at the rear shock mounts or suspension pickup points (providing that the braces remain in compliance with
all other sections of the CCR). They may go through any rear bulkheads provided the bulkhead is sealed around the cage braces.
This is your life that this cage is going to be protecting. Don't go about it half assed.
Z
| Redneck Ricer | 11-14-2004 12:49 PM |
Cages are a pain in the butt for daily driving. It is why I barely drove my Subie and why I ended up taking the cage out. (do you have a second car to drive daily?)
LIke Keith said, look into just the four point instead of the 6 point like I had.
You cannot take the door bars out, and are climbing over it all the time. Back seat is useless and not safe and should be removed(weight savings!!)
Basically, you end up with a race car that is streetable or a street car that is racable. Cant have it both ways :(
But with your mods, if you are on the stock turbo, I believe you will sitll be in ST1 and not have to worry about this anyways. Keith got bumped to SPB due to turbo, IC, injectors, etc.
If I continue to do track, it wont be in the STI, because I would need a full cage (again) along with more.
In hindsight though, if I were to do a full cage again, it would all be welded in, not bolt in.
I will post some pics of my cage front and back when I get home so you can have an idea, ok?
Another option (the one I am considering) is just another car. Think about it. Cage and labor a MINIMUM or $1000+, racing suit $400+, Nomex Helmet, $350+, Nomex gloves, underwear, head sock, etc, $100+, Nomex Shoes, $150+ And this is on top of all the other stuff for your car (wheels, tires, brakes, etc.)
I am htinking of a miata. Yeah, it has 1/4 the power of my STI, but I can pick up a use done, with a rebuilt engine, roll bar, hardtop, spare wheels, race wheels and tires, ready to track, for $3500. Street legal too in case you wanna drive it to the track.
One thing I learnt, as much as I love teh STI, it is a lot easier to drive a fast car fast than a slow car fast. I need to become a better driver :). I believe GTF is looking to do the same thing as well... Just a thought....
Barry
LIke Keith said, look into just the four point instead of the 6 point like I had.
You cannot take the door bars out, and are climbing over it all the time. Back seat is useless and not safe and should be removed(weight savings!!)
Basically, you end up with a race car that is streetable or a street car that is racable. Cant have it both ways :(
But with your mods, if you are on the stock turbo, I believe you will sitll be in ST1 and not have to worry about this anyways. Keith got bumped to SPB due to turbo, IC, injectors, etc.
If I continue to do track, it wont be in the STI, because I would need a full cage (again) along with more.
In hindsight though, if I were to do a full cage again, it would all be welded in, not bolt in.
I will post some pics of my cage front and back when I get home so you can have an idea, ok?
Another option (the one I am considering) is just another car. Think about it. Cage and labor a MINIMUM or $1000+, racing suit $400+, Nomex Helmet, $350+, Nomex gloves, underwear, head sock, etc, $100+, Nomex Shoes, $150+ And this is on top of all the other stuff for your car (wheels, tires, brakes, etc.)
I am htinking of a miata. Yeah, it has 1/4 the power of my STI, but I can pick up a use done, with a rebuilt engine, roll bar, hardtop, spare wheels, race wheels and tires, ready to track, for $3500. Street legal too in case you wanna drive it to the track.
One thing I learnt, as much as I love teh STI, it is a lot easier to drive a fast car fast than a slow car fast. I need to become a better driver :). I believe GTF is looking to do the same thing as well... Just a thought....
Barry
| eclip5e | 11-14-2004 03:11 PM |
[QUOTE=Zephyr250]Do you need a roll bar or a roll cage? It sounds like for what you are doing you just need roll over protection and therefore a simple roll bar should be all that is needed. Since you have a GM8 you're going to have to get a custom one done since no one makes a bolt in unit.
Here are some pictures of mine that I had done last year. I have Sparco belts in there too. [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434890]Roll bar pictures[/URL]
Z[/QUOTE]
I have a GDB. And since i'll be in ST1, I'm thinking I'll just do the rollbar for now.
Here are some pictures of mine that I had done last year. I have Sparco belts in there too. [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434890]Roll bar pictures[/URL]
Z[/QUOTE]
I have a GDB. And since i'll be in ST1, I'm thinking I'll just do the rollbar for now.
| eclip5e | 11-14-2004 03:17 PM |
[QUOTE=Redneck Ricer]
One thing I learnt, as much as I love teh STI, it is a lot easier to drive a fast car fast than a slow car fast. I need to become a better driver :). I believe GTF is looking to do the same thing as well... Just a thought....
Barry[/QUOTE]
I was thinking of that, but I really want to drive this on the track. If i get another car, it would be the daily driver. My current plan is to keep this car in ST1 and run BMW and com days until a few things happen:
1. I become a better driver
2. I get my SCCA competition licence.
2. I can afford to get a decent daily driver and turn the WRX into a 100% track car.
3. The WRX is paid off.
I figure it will be about 2 years. At that point, i'll be turning the WRX into a track car, with racing slicks, full cage, injectors, turbo, bigger IC, coilovers, nomex setup, proper helmet. Then i'll get getting into serious time trials, and hell, even SCCA club racing.
Thats the plan. For now, I'm going to get the rollbar, and looking at what options I have. Autopower makes a nice one. Any other suggestions?
One thing I learnt, as much as I love teh STI, it is a lot easier to drive a fast car fast than a slow car fast. I need to become a better driver :). I believe GTF is looking to do the same thing as well... Just a thought....
Barry[/QUOTE]
I was thinking of that, but I really want to drive this on the track. If i get another car, it would be the daily driver. My current plan is to keep this car in ST1 and run BMW and com days until a few things happen:
1. I become a better driver
2. I get my SCCA competition licence.
2. I can afford to get a decent daily driver and turn the WRX into a 100% track car.
3. The WRX is paid off.
I figure it will be about 2 years. At that point, i'll be turning the WRX into a track car, with racing slicks, full cage, injectors, turbo, bigger IC, coilovers, nomex setup, proper helmet. Then i'll get getting into serious time trials, and hell, even SCCA club racing.
Thats the plan. For now, I'm going to get the rollbar, and looking at what options I have. Autopower makes a nice one. Any other suggestions?
| sabaka95 | 11-14-2004 06:37 PM |
[QUOTE=Redneck Ricer]Cages are a pain in the butt for daily driving. It is why I barely drove my Subie and why I ended up taking the cage out. (do you have a second car to drive daily?)
LIke Keith said, look into just the four point instead of the 6 point like I had.
You cannot take the door bars out, and are climbing over it all the time. Back seat is useless and not safe and should be removed(weight savings!!)
Basically, you end up with a race car that is streetable or a street car that is racable. Cant have it both ways :(
But with your mods, if you are on the stock turbo, I believe you will sitll be in ST1 and not have to worry about this anyways. Keith got bumped to SPB due to turbo, IC, injectors, etc.
If I continue to do track, it wont be in the STI, because I would need a full cage (again) along with more.
In hindsight though, if I were to do a full cage again, it would all be welded in, not bolt in.
I will post some pics of my cage front and back when I get home so you can have an idea, ok?
Another option (the one I am considering) is just another car. Think about it. Cage and labor a MINIMUM or $1000+, racing suit $400+, Nomex Helmet, $350+, Nomex gloves, underwear, head sock, etc, $100+, Nomex Shoes, $150+ And this is on top of all the other stuff for your car (wheels, tires, brakes, etc.)
I am htinking of a miata. Yeah, it has 1/4 the power of my STI, but I can pick up a use done, with a rebuilt engine, roll bar, hardtop, spare wheels, race wheels and tires, ready to track, for $3500. Street legal too in case you wanna drive it to the track.
One thing I learnt, as much as I love teh STI, it is a lot easier to drive a fast car fast than a slow car fast. I need to become a better driver :). I believe GTF is looking to do the same thing as well... Just a thought....
Barry[/QUOTE]
Exactly what are you talking about? There is no problem with getting a race legal 6pt cage in the car with breakaway bars in the doors.
Now I admit that if you are only going to pay 1000 for a 6pt race cage you will probably get crap since some bolt in cages are more than 1000.
But hey what do I know I just posted the pics of the cage in my STI with breakaway door bars that are never in the way and the back seat is completely open for two passengers in the back.
If people want real information about racing cages call cage builders, not just welders who tell you that they will put one in your car in their spare time.
Anybody needing a cage of any kind living in the New York area should call
Montana Brothers Race Cars. :eek:
LIke Keith said, look into just the four point instead of the 6 point like I had.
You cannot take the door bars out, and are climbing over it all the time. Back seat is useless and not safe and should be removed(weight savings!!)
Basically, you end up with a race car that is streetable or a street car that is racable. Cant have it both ways :(
But with your mods, if you are on the stock turbo, I believe you will sitll be in ST1 and not have to worry about this anyways. Keith got bumped to SPB due to turbo, IC, injectors, etc.
If I continue to do track, it wont be in the STI, because I would need a full cage (again) along with more.
In hindsight though, if I were to do a full cage again, it would all be welded in, not bolt in.
I will post some pics of my cage front and back when I get home so you can have an idea, ok?
Another option (the one I am considering) is just another car. Think about it. Cage and labor a MINIMUM or $1000+, racing suit $400+, Nomex Helmet, $350+, Nomex gloves, underwear, head sock, etc, $100+, Nomex Shoes, $150+ And this is on top of all the other stuff for your car (wheels, tires, brakes, etc.)
I am htinking of a miata. Yeah, it has 1/4 the power of my STI, but I can pick up a use done, with a rebuilt engine, roll bar, hardtop, spare wheels, race wheels and tires, ready to track, for $3500. Street legal too in case you wanna drive it to the track.
One thing I learnt, as much as I love teh STI, it is a lot easier to drive a fast car fast than a slow car fast. I need to become a better driver :). I believe GTF is looking to do the same thing as well... Just a thought....
Barry[/QUOTE]
Exactly what are you talking about? There is no problem with getting a race legal 6pt cage in the car with breakaway bars in the doors.
Now I admit that if you are only going to pay 1000 for a 6pt race cage you will probably get crap since some bolt in cages are more than 1000.
But hey what do I know I just posted the pics of the cage in my STI with breakaway door bars that are never in the way and the back seat is completely open for two passengers in the back.
If people want real information about racing cages call cage builders, not just welders who tell you that they will put one in your car in their spare time.
Anybody needing a cage of any kind living in the New York area should call
Montana Brothers Race Cars. :eek:
| akuhner | 11-14-2004 09:05 PM |
[QUOTE=sabaka95]Anybody needing a cage of any kind living in the New York area should call Montana Brothers Race Cars. :eek:[/QUOTE] Montana Brothers? In New York? :confused: I'm taking my car to [URL=http://www.rallispec.com]RalliSpec[/URL] for my RallyAmerica/former-SCCA/CARS rally legal PGT cage. I drive the car once a month or so, and I want to start rally sprints and hill climbs, so I don't care how much of a pain it is on the street - the door bars are going to be permanent and they are going to be high! ;)
Now I understand what open road racing is:
[QUOTE]A. Open Road Racing is a high-speed automotive rally event held on closed highways from 50 to 84 miles in length, in two legs, with total distances ranging from 97 to 131 miles. Cars compete in solo runs against the clock in speed classes ranging from 85 MPH to 170 MPH, with the objective being to average your target speed EXACTLY. You can race by yourself, or share the fun with a co-driver or navigator to help keep the time and watch the course notes.[/QUOTE]
Do they have published cage safety rules that you are following? It sounds like you have interest in SCCA stuff too, so you should make sure it's compliant for those rules as well.
Alex
Now I understand what open road racing is:
[QUOTE]A. Open Road Racing is a high-speed automotive rally event held on closed highways from 50 to 84 miles in length, in two legs, with total distances ranging from 97 to 131 miles. Cars compete in solo runs against the clock in speed classes ranging from 85 MPH to 170 MPH, with the objective being to average your target speed EXACTLY. You can race by yourself, or share the fun with a co-driver or navigator to help keep the time and watch the course notes.[/QUOTE]
Do they have published cage safety rules that you are following? It sounds like you have interest in SCCA stuff too, so you should make sure it's compliant for those rules as well.
Alex
| Redneck Ricer | 11-14-2004 11:48 PM |
Let me rephrase then
The auto power 6 point roll cage that I had in my car does not have easily removable door bars. you can remove them, but then it leaves two 4" pieces of exposed piping. not exactly what you want to do. He had asked me before about the auto power roll bar, this is what I am referring to.
As in your pics, the exposed piping is sticking out. I personally do not consider this safe.
Also, form your pics, it looks as if the rar bars are bent with the roofline, making it not legal for SCCA, NASA, NHRA and others.
The autopower rollcage is both SCCA and NHRA legal for competition.
Now yes, you can make one that you can 'safely' remove the door bars from. i agree.
as for price. the autopower 6 point bolt in roll cage cost $650. much less than $1000.
Barry
The auto power 6 point roll cage that I had in my car does not have easily removable door bars. you can remove them, but then it leaves two 4" pieces of exposed piping. not exactly what you want to do. He had asked me before about the auto power roll bar, this is what I am referring to.
As in your pics, the exposed piping is sticking out. I personally do not consider this safe.
Also, form your pics, it looks as if the rar bars are bent with the roofline, making it not legal for SCCA, NASA, NHRA and others.
The autopower rollcage is both SCCA and NHRA legal for competition.
Now yes, you can make one that you can 'safely' remove the door bars from. i agree.
as for price. the autopower 6 point bolt in roll cage cost $650. much less than $1000.
Barry
| sabaka95 | 11-15-2004 06:27 AM |
[QUOTE=Redneck Ricer]Let me rephrase then
The auto power 6 point roll cage that I had in my car does not have easily removable door bars. you can remove them, but then it leaves two 4" pieces of exposed piping. not exactly what you want to do. He had asked me before about the auto power roll bar, this is what I am referring to.
As in your pics, the exposed piping is sticking out. I personally do not consider this safe.
Also, form your pics, it looks as if the rar bars are bent with the roofline, making it not legal for SCCA, NASA, NHRA and others.
The autopower rollcage is both SCCA and NHRA legal for competition.
Now yes, you can make one that you can 'safely' remove the door bars from. i agree.
as for price. the autopower 6 point bolt in roll cage cost $650. much less than $1000.
Barry[/QUOTE]
Certainly glad you are not teching cars at competition since you no nothing about regulations for cages. Saying that they shouldnt follow the roof line is just a stupid comment. Of course those cheap bolt in cages dont follow the roofline because they are not custom. They are inferior metal with thick tubing and heavier weight. You get what you pay for and as for 650 let me know how much it costs installed and since its MIG welded we know its cheaper quality metal.
Just for your information, my cage is teched legal for 8.50 in NHRA which is more than legal any other competition. Like one of the other quotes said earlier it about how much you want to spend for safety and have comfort in the car. Spend more money on the cage so later on you dont feel encased in a metal interior.
The auto power 6 point roll cage that I had in my car does not have easily removable door bars. you can remove them, but then it leaves two 4" pieces of exposed piping. not exactly what you want to do. He had asked me before about the auto power roll bar, this is what I am referring to.
As in your pics, the exposed piping is sticking out. I personally do not consider this safe.
Also, form your pics, it looks as if the rar bars are bent with the roofline, making it not legal for SCCA, NASA, NHRA and others.
The autopower rollcage is both SCCA and NHRA legal for competition.
Now yes, you can make one that you can 'safely' remove the door bars from. i agree.
as for price. the autopower 6 point bolt in roll cage cost $650. much less than $1000.
Barry[/QUOTE]
Certainly glad you are not teching cars at competition since you no nothing about regulations for cages. Saying that they shouldnt follow the roof line is just a stupid comment. Of course those cheap bolt in cages dont follow the roofline because they are not custom. They are inferior metal with thick tubing and heavier weight. You get what you pay for and as for 650 let me know how much it costs installed and since its MIG welded we know its cheaper quality metal.
Just for your information, my cage is teched legal for 8.50 in NHRA which is more than legal any other competition. Like one of the other quotes said earlier it about how much you want to spend for safety and have comfort in the car. Spend more money on the cage so later on you dont feel encased in a metal interior.
| Redneck Ricer | 11-15-2004 07:24 AM |
First, I am glad I am not eching cars as well. would not want that job. I know my cage passed for SCCA, NHRA, and BMWCCA. works for me.
From the NASA CCR's
15.5.11 Rear Braces
The main hoop must have two (2) braces extending to the rear. The braces shall be attached as near as possible to the top of the main hoop, and no more than six (6) inches below the top. [COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Courier New]The braces must not contain any bends.[/FONT][/COLOR] There must be at least 30 degrees between the plane of the main hoop and the plane of the rear braces. The main hoop rear braces shall be installed to form no more than a one hundred five (105) degree angle or no less than a seventy (75) degree angle with the main hoop when viewed from the top. The main hoop braces may be mounted at the rear shock mounts or suspension pickup points (providing that the braces remain in compliance with
all other sections of the CCR). They may go through any rear bulkheads provided the bulkhead is sealed around the cage braces
I guess I am confused how it is legal. You braces contain a huge bend to follow the roof line after the main hoop, instead of going straight down.
Yes, the main hoops and cage part surrounding the passengers should follow the roofline, as even the bolt in cage does, but the rear support legs are not suppose to have bends in them, according to SCCA and others.
Now, I highlighted the NASA rules above as I cannot find the NHRA rules, but I cannot picture them being hugely different. Please post the 8.50 rule showing it is legal to have bends in the rear support bars, and I will consider myself corrected.
Barry
From the NASA CCR's
15.5.11 Rear Braces
The main hoop must have two (2) braces extending to the rear. The braces shall be attached as near as possible to the top of the main hoop, and no more than six (6) inches below the top. [COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Courier New]The braces must not contain any bends.[/FONT][/COLOR] There must be at least 30 degrees between the plane of the main hoop and the plane of the rear braces. The main hoop rear braces shall be installed to form no more than a one hundred five (105) degree angle or no less than a seventy (75) degree angle with the main hoop when viewed from the top. The main hoop braces may be mounted at the rear shock mounts or suspension pickup points (providing that the braces remain in compliance with
all other sections of the CCR). They may go through any rear bulkheads provided the bulkhead is sealed around the cage braces
I guess I am confused how it is legal. You braces contain a huge bend to follow the roof line after the main hoop, instead of going straight down.
Yes, the main hoops and cage part surrounding the passengers should follow the roofline, as even the bolt in cage does, but the rear support legs are not suppose to have bends in them, according to SCCA and others.
Now, I highlighted the NASA rules above as I cannot find the NHRA rules, but I cannot picture them being hugely different. Please post the 8.50 rule showing it is legal to have bends in the rear support bars, and I will consider myself corrected.
Barry
| Gravel Spray | 11-15-2004 11:53 AM |
:lol: :lol: :lol:
It gets even worse!?!?!?!?!?
It gets even worse!?!?!?!?!?
| sabaka95 | 11-15-2004 02:25 PM |
[QUOTE=Redneck Ricer]First, I am glad I am not eching cars as well. would not want that job. I know my cage passed for SCCA, NHRA, and BMWCCA. works for me.
From the NASA CCR's
15.5.11 Rear Braces
The main hoop must have two (2) braces extending to the rear. The braces shall be attached as near as possible to the top of the main hoop, and no more than six (6) inches below the top. [COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Courier New]The braces must not contain any bends.[/FONT][/COLOR] There must be at least 30 degrees between the plane of the main hoop and the plane of the rear braces. The main hoop rear braces shall be installed to form no more than a one hundred five (105) degree angle or no less than a seventy (75) degree angle with the main hoop when viewed from the top. The main hoop braces may be mounted at the rear shock mounts or suspension pickup points (providing that the braces remain in compliance with
all other sections of the CCR). They may go through any rear bulkheads provided the bulkhead is sealed around the cage braces
I guess I am confused how it is legal. You braces contain a huge bend to follow the roof line after the main hoop, instead of going straight down.
Yes, the main hoops and cage part surrounding the passengers should follow the roofline, as even the bolt in cage does, but the rear support legs are not suppose to have bends in them, according to SCCA and others.
Now, I highlighted the NASA rules above as I cannot find the NHRA rules, but I cannot picture them being hugely different. Please post the 8.50 rule showing it is legal to have bends in the rear support bars, and I will consider myself corrected.
Barry[/QUOTE]
I can tell that the problem we are having is you are talking about SCCA and I am talking about NHRA. Since I am not going to rally my car I am not concerned with SCCA rules. As fas as NHRA there is not bolt-in cage on the market that is legal at 8.50. The rules state that the front where the cage is welded must be almost even with the feet. In other words cages that are just bolted into the floor just ahead of the front seat are only legal for 11.50 runs in the NHRA. If you look in any cars that have really run fast times the front part of the cage goes through the dash. You can only get that in custom.
Those bolt in cages that loop just in front of the dash are not legal and if you go under 10.50 you cant use it, or you can do like others and hope to get away with it until someone call you on it.
The way it works is that SCCA and other rally are concerned with the straight pieces behind the hoop. NHRA is concerned with stiffness as far forward as possible. The faster you go the the farther forward the front hoop has to be welded. My front front hoop is through the dash to the firewall.
Lets just leave it at that since my car is already certified at 8.50 I know that it is good.
Whatever you need to certify yours for I hope you are legal when you have to run it. Because if you win someone will look for a reason to call you on it.
From the NASA CCR's
15.5.11 Rear Braces
The main hoop must have two (2) braces extending to the rear. The braces shall be attached as near as possible to the top of the main hoop, and no more than six (6) inches below the top. [COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Courier New]The braces must not contain any bends.[/FONT][/COLOR] There must be at least 30 degrees between the plane of the main hoop and the plane of the rear braces. The main hoop rear braces shall be installed to form no more than a one hundred five (105) degree angle or no less than a seventy (75) degree angle with the main hoop when viewed from the top. The main hoop braces may be mounted at the rear shock mounts or suspension pickup points (providing that the braces remain in compliance with
all other sections of the CCR). They may go through any rear bulkheads provided the bulkhead is sealed around the cage braces
I guess I am confused how it is legal. You braces contain a huge bend to follow the roof line after the main hoop, instead of going straight down.
Yes, the main hoops and cage part surrounding the passengers should follow the roofline, as even the bolt in cage does, but the rear support legs are not suppose to have bends in them, according to SCCA and others.
Now, I highlighted the NASA rules above as I cannot find the NHRA rules, but I cannot picture them being hugely different. Please post the 8.50 rule showing it is legal to have bends in the rear support bars, and I will consider myself corrected.
Barry[/QUOTE]
I can tell that the problem we are having is you are talking about SCCA and I am talking about NHRA. Since I am not going to rally my car I am not concerned with SCCA rules. As fas as NHRA there is not bolt-in cage on the market that is legal at 8.50. The rules state that the front where the cage is welded must be almost even with the feet. In other words cages that are just bolted into the floor just ahead of the front seat are only legal for 11.50 runs in the NHRA. If you look in any cars that have really run fast times the front part of the cage goes through the dash. You can only get that in custom.
Those bolt in cages that loop just in front of the dash are not legal and if you go under 10.50 you cant use it, or you can do like others and hope to get away with it until someone call you on it.
The way it works is that SCCA and other rally are concerned with the straight pieces behind the hoop. NHRA is concerned with stiffness as far forward as possible. The faster you go the the farther forward the front hoop has to be welded. My front front hoop is through the dash to the firewall.
Lets just leave it at that since my car is already certified at 8.50 I know that it is good.
Whatever you need to certify yours for I hope you are legal when you have to run it. Because if you win someone will look for a reason to call you on it.
| Chaste Automotive | 11-15-2004 03:02 PM |
Guys here is how a proper cage should fit and this is a fairl common and a well proven design. IF you have never built a cage then do not comment on what is effective and what isn't.
[IMG]http://www.chasteauto.com/productpics/pics/cage2kothe.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chasteauto.com/productpics/pics/cage3kothe.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chasteauto.com/productpics/pics/cage4kothe.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chasteauto.com/productpics/pics/cage2kothe.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chasteauto.com/productpics/pics/cage3kothe.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chasteauto.com/productpics/pics/cage4kothe.jpg[/IMG]
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