| BIGSKYWRX | 06-05-2006 09:25 AM |
[QUOTE=javid]You would just need the ball joint adapter provided the tie rod piece taht you have can extend out to 1.25" aka 32mm. Where can we purchase what you have?[/QUOTE]
He's got the Baer end rods- nice adjustable setup, but haven't seen them around of late. I've got a email into Baer.
[IMG]http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/100/136/136-tierods.jpg[/IMG]
He's got the Baer end rods- nice adjustable setup, but haven't seen them around of late. I've got a email into Baer.
[IMG]http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/100/136/136-tierods.jpg[/IMG]
| trhoppe | 06-05-2006 08:15 PM |
So we did some more calculations of bump steer tonight on the suspension modeling software. With that, we have 1 slight tweak to our prototype of about 2mm.
[b]Stock Bump Steer Numbers[/b]
Bump steer degree mm
100.00 bump 0.11 0.66 toe in
80.00 bump 0.05 0.30 toe in
60.00 bump 0.02 0.11 toe in
40.00 bump 0.00 0.02
20.00 bump 0.00 0.00
Static 0.00 0.00
20.00 droop 0.00 0.00
40.00 droop 0.00 0.03
60.00 droop 0.02 0.12 toe out
80.00 droop 0.05 0.30 toe out
100.00 droop 0.10 0.60 toe out
[b]Here is what you get with the ZeroSports balljoint[/b] :eek: :huh:
Bump steer degree mm
100.00 bump 2.99 17.22 toe in
80.00 bump 2.34 13.50 toe in
60.00 bump 1.74 10.00 toe in
40.00 bump 1.15 6.63 toe in
20.00 bump 0.58 3.31 toe in
Static 0.00 0.00
20.00 droop 0.59 3.38 toe out
40.00 droop 1.20 6.89 toe out
60.00 droop 1.84 10.60 toe out
80.00 droop 2.53 14.59 toe out
100.00 droop 3.29 18.94 toe out
And look at these beautiful numbers with the [b]6 Gun Racing Balljoint adapter and tie rod adapter Kit[/b]
Bump steer degree mm
100.00 bump 0.02 0.13 toe out
80.00 bump 0.03 0.16 toe out
60.00 bump 0.02 0.14 toe out
40.00 bump 0.01 0.08 toe out
20.00 bump 0.00 0.03
Static 0.00 0.00
20.00 droop 0.00 0.03
40.00 droop 0.02 0.14 toe out
60.00 droop 0.06 0.36 toe out
80.00 droop 0.13 0.72 toe out
100.00 droop 0.22 1.28 toe out
:banana:
-Tom
[b]Stock Bump Steer Numbers[/b]
Bump steer degree mm
100.00 bump 0.11 0.66 toe in
80.00 bump 0.05 0.30 toe in
60.00 bump 0.02 0.11 toe in
40.00 bump 0.00 0.02
20.00 bump 0.00 0.00
Static 0.00 0.00
20.00 droop 0.00 0.00
40.00 droop 0.00 0.03
60.00 droop 0.02 0.12 toe out
80.00 droop 0.05 0.30 toe out
100.00 droop 0.10 0.60 toe out
[b]Here is what you get with the ZeroSports balljoint[/b] :eek: :huh:
Bump steer degree mm
100.00 bump 2.99 17.22 toe in
80.00 bump 2.34 13.50 toe in
60.00 bump 1.74 10.00 toe in
40.00 bump 1.15 6.63 toe in
20.00 bump 0.58 3.31 toe in
Static 0.00 0.00
20.00 droop 0.59 3.38 toe out
40.00 droop 1.20 6.89 toe out
60.00 droop 1.84 10.60 toe out
80.00 droop 2.53 14.59 toe out
100.00 droop 3.29 18.94 toe out
And look at these beautiful numbers with the [b]6 Gun Racing Balljoint adapter and tie rod adapter Kit[/b]
Bump steer degree mm
100.00 bump 0.02 0.13 toe out
80.00 bump 0.03 0.16 toe out
60.00 bump 0.02 0.14 toe out
40.00 bump 0.01 0.08 toe out
20.00 bump 0.00 0.03
Static 0.00 0.00
20.00 droop 0.00 0.03
40.00 droop 0.02 0.14 toe out
60.00 droop 0.06 0.36 toe out
80.00 droop 0.13 0.72 toe out
100.00 droop 0.22 1.28 toe out
:banana:
-Tom
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-05-2006 11:39 PM |
Very nice :) Always wanted to see stock bump steer.
I think Zerosport had the right idea to look at helping w/ the roll center, but didn't fully carry through w/o addressesing the tie rod. Looks like you guys did :D
I think Zerosport had the right idea to look at helping w/ the roll center, but didn't fully carry through w/o addressesing the tie rod. Looks like you guys did :D
| javid | 06-06-2006 12:27 AM |
The shop finished the mods and I have a set of these on the TT car. Everything went on well and the car performed well on the street tires and camber. I need to get some grade 8 bolts from McMaster Carr (who delivers to our shop daily :D ) tomorrow and the kits will head out to the other testers tomorrow night.
We still have a lot of work to do but I feel :banana: :D
We still have a lot of work to do but I feel :banana: :D
| drees | 06-06-2006 02:20 AM |
Thanks for posting the numbers. What's the reference point for "Static"? Is that stock ride height? Do you have the hub-fender measurement you're using for "Static"?
| MRF582 | 06-06-2006 05:32 AM |
Thanks for posting accurate test data. It's nice to see #'s. I fully applaud this kind engineering/marketing.
| Turn in Concepts | 06-06-2006 08:09 AM |
Now I really can't wait to get a set on the car.
| trhoppe | 06-06-2006 09:07 AM |
I should really post the camber data ;) :lol:
"Static" was also at "stock" ride height.
-Tom
"Static" was also at "stock" ride height.
-Tom
| javid | 06-06-2006 09:35 AM |
FYI for a lowered car, the bump steer just comes sooner or later.... For a lowered car, start reading data at some % of bump. A mild drop might be in the 40% range, an aggressive drop would be 60%, ESX is probably running 80% to 100%. It is some what hard to remodel the car for a lower hieght beyond just using the bump. However you can still roll the car at full bump to simulate a car turning when lowered, aka read the camber curve at a variety of different ride hieghts from stock to slammed.
We will try to post some data tonight, last night we were surprised to find the control arm drop would actually be useful for a stock ride hieght car, mainly because it is going to roll so much. For a heavily lower car it is extremely useful.
We will try to post some data tonight, last night we were surprised to find the control arm drop would actually be useful for a stock ride hieght car, mainly because it is going to roll so much. For a heavily lower car it is extremely useful.
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-06-2006 09:38 AM |
[QUOTE=javid]The shop finished the mods and I have a set of these on the TT car. Everything went on well and the car performed well on the street tires and camber. I need to get some grade 8 bolts from McMaster Carr (who delivers to our shop daily :D ) tomorrow and the kits will head out to the other testers tomorrow night.
We still have a lot of work to do but I feel :banana: :D[/QUOTE]
If you can get JIS sized bolts that would be a plus - "regular" metric the next best. I like to keep my tools to a minmum.
We still have a lot of work to do but I feel :banana: :D[/QUOTE]
If you can get JIS sized bolts that would be a plus - "regular" metric the next best. I like to keep my tools to a minmum.
| javid | 06-06-2006 01:22 PM |
The grade 5 bolts I used from home depot had 17mm heads. I believe that I ordered the same from McMasterCarr just now but will double check when they get in this afternoon.
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-06-2006 02:24 PM |
17mm will be perfect :) Looking forward to the camber curves as well.
| drees | 06-06-2006 02:36 PM |
Had to plot the bumpsteer :) Yes, the Zerosports setup is bad.
[URL=http://img289.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6gunbumpsteer3gk.jpg][IMG]http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/6931/6gunbumpsteer3gk.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img289.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6gunbumpsteer3gk.jpg][IMG]http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/6931/6gunbumpsteer3gk.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
| D_REX | 06-06-2006 02:41 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]I should really post the camber data ;) :lol:
[/QUOTE]
A camber change vs. travel comparison of the 6 gun system versus stock would be very valuable marketing material :D
[/QUOTE]
A camber change vs. travel comparison of the 6 gun system versus stock would be very valuable marketing material :D
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-06-2006 03:03 PM |
drees- thanks for the graph :) very dramatic.
| javid | 06-06-2006 03:26 PM |
[QUOTE=D_REX]A camber change vs. travel comparison of the 6 gun system versus stock would be very valuable marketing material :D[/QUOTE]
The curves are fun to look at, Tom and I were giggling last night when we started playing with stock and various ride hieghts in the model. :)
The curves are fun to look at, Tom and I were giggling last night when we started playing with stock and various ride hieghts in the model. :)
| duncangrant | 06-06-2006 05:23 PM |
What modelling software are you using Javid?
| javid | 06-06-2006 05:28 PM |
I forget, something funky like 'suspro', I can check tonight.
What do you use? If for some reason you can export the impreza front geometry in a ME / CAD / ATOM freindly package I would mail you a beer or two for it :D
What do you use? If for some reason you can export the impreza front geometry in a ME / CAD / ATOM freindly package I would mail you a beer or two for it :D
| FatStraws | 06-06-2006 08:28 PM |
[QUOTE=drees]Had to plot the bumpsteer :) Yes, the Zerosports setup is bad.
[URL=http://img289.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6gunbumpsteer3gk.jpg][IMG]http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/6931/6gunbumpsteer3gk.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]
i am curious to know how this data was obtained. can you provide some detail with how you went about mapping this information, choosing the variables, and how you designed the 'experiment.' as of right now, i am curious to know the validity of that graph...
[URL=http://img289.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6gunbumpsteer3gk.jpg][IMG]http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/6931/6gunbumpsteer3gk.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]
i am curious to know how this data was obtained. can you provide some detail with how you went about mapping this information, choosing the variables, and how you designed the 'experiment.' as of right now, i am curious to know the validity of that graph...
| crystalhelix | 06-06-2006 08:36 PM |
I a subscribing even though I can't do this mod in BSP..it's cool what you guys are up too..
| drees | 06-06-2006 09:20 PM |
[QUOTE=FatStraws]i am curious to know how this data was obtained. can you provide some detail with how you went about mapping this information, choosing the variables, and how you designed the 'experiment.' as of right now, i am curious to know the validity of that graph...[/QUOTE]My plot was generated using the data that trhoppe posted a few posts up.
I have nothing to do with 6-gun racing except that I am interested in their product.
I have nothing to do with 6-gun racing except that I am interested in their product.
| MRF582 | 06-06-2006 09:30 PM |
[url]http://www.bevenyoung.com.au/suswin.htm[/url]
SusProg3D: Suspension By Design
For Windows 95, 98, Me, NT4, 2000 and XP
SusProg3D is the premier kinematic suspension design and analysis tool
$A330.00 inc AUSTRALIAN GST PLUS POSTAGE
6gun racing - Do you plan to buy this software when you've made $A330 in profit?
SusProg3D: Suspension By Design
For Windows 95, 98, Me, NT4, 2000 and XP
SusProg3D is the premier kinematic suspension design and analysis tool
$A330.00 inc AUSTRALIAN GST PLUS POSTAGE
6gun racing - Do you plan to buy this software when you've made $A330 in profit?
| MRF582 | 06-06-2006 09:37 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]I should really post the camber data ;) :lol:
"Static" was also at "stock" ride height.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Please, please post that data. :banana:
"Static" was also at "stock" ride height.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Please, please post that data. :banana:
| trhoppe | 06-06-2006 09:54 PM |
[QUOTE=FatStraws]i am curious to know how this data was obtained. can you provide some detail with how you went about mapping this information, choosing the variables, and how you designed the 'experiment.' as of right now, i am curious to know the validity of that graph...[/QUOTE]
We are using the Evaluation version of Susprog3D build 4.73.
What did you *think* would happen if you dropped the control arm and not touch the steering arm geometry?
-Tom
We are using the Evaluation version of Susprog3D build 4.73.
What did you *think* would happen if you dropped the control arm and not touch the steering arm geometry?
-Tom
| trhoppe | 06-06-2006 09:55 PM |
[QUOTE=MRF582][url]http://www.bevenyoung.com.au/suswin.htm[/url]
SusProg3D: Suspension By Design
For Windows 95, 98, Me, NT4, 2000 and XP
SusProg3D is the premier kinematic suspension design and analysis tool
$A330.00 inc AUSTRALIAN GST PLUS POSTAGE
6gun racing - Do you plan to buy this software when you've made $A330 in profit?[/QUOTE]
Yup! Up until this project I have been using this software as a "fun, lets look at stuff" tool, but now that we are using it for a business use, we will be purchasing this software :)
-Tom
SusProg3D: Suspension By Design
For Windows 95, 98, Me, NT4, 2000 and XP
SusProg3D is the premier kinematic suspension design and analysis tool
$A330.00 inc AUSTRALIAN GST PLUS POSTAGE
6gun racing - Do you plan to buy this software when you've made $A330 in profit?[/QUOTE]
Yup! Up until this project I have been using this software as a "fun, lets look at stuff" tool, but now that we are using it for a business use, we will be purchasing this software :)
-Tom
| Turn in Concepts | 06-06-2006 10:02 PM |
You know, I've been thinking about the zerosports vs this set up for a little while. Here's what I've come up with.
This is from a cost of ownership point of view. I'll admit it. I'm cheap. I tend to keep things for a long time, and like to make them last through maintaining them.
With the zerosports you get a WHOLE new ball joint. So if it ever goes bad you have to replace it with a WHOLE new zerosports ball joint. Last I checked they're kinda hard to get, and cost a nice bit.
With the 6GR version you use the stock ball joint. Those are what, $40? Cool. Now, folks could argue that the adapter itself could fail. In that case I refer you to two things. First, take a look at those bad boys. Second, think about the fact they they had them destructively tested. The adapters are not going to fail.
Maybe I'm just voicing something everyone already knows, but then again, maybe I'm not...
This is from a cost of ownership point of view. I'll admit it. I'm cheap. I tend to keep things for a long time, and like to make them last through maintaining them.
With the zerosports you get a WHOLE new ball joint. So if it ever goes bad you have to replace it with a WHOLE new zerosports ball joint. Last I checked they're kinda hard to get, and cost a nice bit.
With the 6GR version you use the stock ball joint. Those are what, $40? Cool. Now, folks could argue that the adapter itself could fail. In that case I refer you to two things. First, take a look at those bad boys. Second, think about the fact they they had them destructively tested. The adapters are not going to fail.
Maybe I'm just voicing something everyone already knows, but then again, maybe I'm not...
| trhoppe | 06-06-2006 10:04 PM |
Here are the numbers that we came up with for a 1.5" lowered Impreza.
Stock
Outer wheel (LH)
camber
0.00 roll -2.28
1.00 roll -1.61
2.00 roll -0.91
3.00 roll -0.18
4.00 roll 0.60
5.00 roll 1.42
6.00 roll 2.28
6Gun Racing Balljoint Adapter Kit
Outer wheel (LH)
camber
0.00 roll -2.28
1.00 roll -1.72
2.00 roll -1.14
3.00 roll -0.53
4.00 roll 0.11
5.00 roll 0.78
6.00 roll 1.48
Through 6 degrees of body roll, you retain right around 0.80 camber :)
-Tom
Stock
Outer wheel (LH)
camber
0.00 roll -2.28
1.00 roll -1.61
2.00 roll -0.91
3.00 roll -0.18
4.00 roll 0.60
5.00 roll 1.42
6.00 roll 2.28
6Gun Racing Balljoint Adapter Kit
Outer wheel (LH)
camber
0.00 roll -2.28
1.00 roll -1.72
2.00 roll -1.14
3.00 roll -0.53
4.00 roll 0.11
5.00 roll 0.78
6.00 roll 1.48
Through 6 degrees of body roll, you retain right around 0.80 camber :)
-Tom
| trhoppe | 06-06-2006 10:13 PM |
Here are the numbers that we came up with for a 3" lowered Impreza *coughESXcough*
Stock
Outer wheel (LH)
camber
0.00 roll -2.49
1.00 roll -1.68
2.00 roll -0.82
3.00 roll 0.09
4.00 roll 1.07
5.00 roll 2.12
6.00 roll 3.25
6Gun Racing Balljoint Adapter Kit
Outer wheel (LH)
camber
0.00 roll -2.49
1.00 roll -1.82
2.00 roll -1.12
3.00 roll -0.37
4.00 roll 0.41
5.00 roll 1.23
6.00 roll 2.10
Through 6 degrees of body roll you will retain almost 1.2 degrees camber.
-Tom
Stock
Outer wheel (LH)
camber
0.00 roll -2.49
1.00 roll -1.68
2.00 roll -0.82
3.00 roll 0.09
4.00 roll 1.07
5.00 roll 2.12
6.00 roll 3.25
6Gun Racing Balljoint Adapter Kit
Outer wheel (LH)
camber
0.00 roll -2.49
1.00 roll -1.82
2.00 roll -1.12
3.00 roll -0.37
4.00 roll 0.41
5.00 roll 1.23
6.00 roll 2.10
Through 6 degrees of body roll you will retain almost 1.2 degrees camber.
-Tom
| MRF582 | 06-06-2006 10:21 PM |
Do you have any data on how many degrees a car will roll during maximum weight transfer to one side? maybe data with a certain spring rate (or wheel rate) and ultra sticky street tires and ultra sticky race compound.
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-06-2006 11:08 PM |
very interesting indeed-thanks for posting that :)
How do things change when you lower the static camber- say to oe-ish levels ~ -1.0 on the 1.5" lowering example? Assuming you go positive quicker- just curious how quicker- would be nice to show the "S-tech-like" crowd.
How do things change when you lower the static camber- say to oe-ish levels ~ -1.0 on the 1.5" lowering example? Assuming you go positive quicker- just curious how quicker- would be nice to show the "S-tech-like" crowd.
| javid | 06-07-2006 01:04 AM |
Different static camber will just adjust the camber at each roll angle by the same amount. Well, for static camber changes using a camber bolt it would be a direct shift in the numbers, changes at the strut top would be slightly different but still very close to just offsetting each number.
As for roll, a stockish like car may roll up to 8 deg. Stiff suspension will reduce that and r-comps will increase that. Most auto-xers swear there is a minimum hieght to drop but it really matters how much static camber you want to run. With stock geometry a 3" drop is fine if you run -4 camber and don't roll more than 5 deg.
As for roll, a stockish like car may roll up to 8 deg. Stiff suspension will reduce that and r-comps will increase that. Most auto-xers swear there is a minimum hieght to drop but it really matters how much static camber you want to run. With stock geometry a 3" drop is fine if you run -4 camber and don't roll more than 5 deg.
| drees | 06-07-2006 02:52 AM |
I love charts. :) Camber curve graphs:
[URL=http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6guncambercurve4rh.jpg][IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8678/6guncambercurve4rh.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Btw, if anyone wants the spreadsheet I'm using to generate these plots, just ask, they're pretty simple.
[URL=http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=6guncambercurve4rh.jpg][IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8678/6guncambercurve4rh.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Btw, if anyone wants the spreadsheet I'm using to generate these plots, just ask, they're pretty simple.
| AtomicRacer | 06-07-2006 09:51 AM |
I don't recall what the stock ride height was. So what would -1.5" and -3.0" equate to in ride height? i.e hub center to fender.
-Paul
-Paul
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-07-2006 10:03 AM |
[QUOTE=AtomicRacer]I don't recall what the stock ride height was. So what would -1.5" and -3.0" equate to in ride height? i.e hub center to fender.
-Paul[/QUOTE]
Depends which car- WRX sedan is 396/376, WRX wagon 387/376, STi 386/366 (all in mm)
-Paul[/QUOTE]
Depends which car- WRX sedan is 396/376, WRX wagon 387/376, STi 386/366 (all in mm)
| coolcougar | 06-07-2006 10:07 AM |
[QUOTE=BIGSKYWRX]Depends which car- WRX sedan is 15.59/14.80, WRX wagon 15.24/14.80, STi 15.20/14.41 (all in inches)[/QUOTE]
For the metric challenged :D
For the metric challenged :D
| remowgn | 06-07-2006 12:03 PM |
[QUOTE=coolcougar]For the metric challenged :D[/QUOTE]
at 15.6/14.8 for stock, a 3" drop would equate to 12.6 / 11.8 :eek: and you'd STILL have better than stock camber curves. That's just plain awesome.
Now I just need to find some bump travel somewhere. :lol: :lol:
at 15.6/14.8 for stock, a 3" drop would equate to 12.6 / 11.8 :eek: and you'd STILL have better than stock camber curves. That's just plain awesome.
Now I just need to find some bump travel somewhere. :lol: :lol:
| trhoppe | 06-07-2006 12:04 PM |
[QUOTE=remowgn]at 15.6/14.8 for stock, a 3" drop would equate to 12.6 / 11.8 :eek: and you'd STILL have better than stock camber curves. That's just plain awesome.
Now I just need to find some bump travel somewhere. :lol: :lol:[/QUOTE]
Not quite, but close. Notice that the #s we posted are for "Stock control arms", but 1.5" lower on the car. We'll post stock control arm and stock height numbers tonight.
-Tom
Now I just need to find some bump travel somewhere. :lol: :lol:[/QUOTE]
Not quite, but close. Notice that the #s we posted are for "Stock control arms", but 1.5" lower on the car. We'll post stock control arm and stock height numbers tonight.
-Tom
| remowgn | 06-07-2006 12:06 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Not quite, but close. Notice that the #s we posted are for "Stock control arms", but 1.5" lower on the car. We'll post stock control arm and stock height numbers tonight.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Oops, missed that. Still impressive nonetheless.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Oops, missed that. Still impressive nonetheless.
| AtomicRacer | 06-07-2006 12:06 PM |
Damn, I wish this was ST* legal. I would do it in a heart beat. This would become a "must have" mod.
-Paul
-Paul
| petawabit | 06-08-2006 01:11 AM |
here's the part numbers for the baers-
3851001
3851001
| MRF582 | 06-08-2006 02:01 AM |
sweet!
Here's the link for the lazy.
[url]http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=20310[/url]
Here's the link for the lazy.
[url]http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=20310[/url]
| javid | 06-08-2006 12:25 PM |
Bump for Ricer Review:
last week I pulled a good 0.5 to 0.75 deg of camber out of the front end. I had been running around with my dry track setup of 3-3.25 deg camber and was tired of wearing the tires on the street.
The prototypes have been on for a few days of putting around town. Yesterday, I put the track wheels back on (17x10s w/ 255 615s)for a photoshoot. Part of the shoot included closing down a twisty road for some action shots and the street cambered car felt as good or better than the old dry camber settings.
A number of experianced drivers who rode alone thought I was on r-comps :lol:
The above is a rice review and not intended to 'proove' anything; it is mainly just to explain how happy I am with the project. :D
last week I pulled a good 0.5 to 0.75 deg of camber out of the front end. I had been running around with my dry track setup of 3-3.25 deg camber and was tired of wearing the tires on the street.
The prototypes have been on for a few days of putting around town. Yesterday, I put the track wheels back on (17x10s w/ 255 615s)for a photoshoot. Part of the shoot included closing down a twisty road for some action shots and the street cambered car felt as good or better than the old dry camber settings.
A number of experianced drivers who rode alone thought I was on r-comps :lol:
The above is a rice review and not intended to 'proove' anything; it is mainly just to explain how happy I am with the project. :D
| WRX8XB | 06-08-2006 12:28 PM |
we need to make this legal in BSP!!
(i know i know wont happen, looks like SM is in the future!)
(i know i know wont happen, looks like SM is in the future!)
| AUTOwrXER | 06-08-2006 01:14 PM |
[QUOTE=javid]Bump for Ricer Review:
last week I pulled a good 0.5 to 0.75 deg of camber out of the front end. I had been running around with my dry track setup of 3-3.25 deg camber and was tired of wearing the tires on the street. [/QUOTE]
Javid,
I'm willing to bet that it was a toe issue that wore your tires out on the inside. Camber is much more livable. I've run through a few sets of street tires with about 3 degrees neg. with even wear. When my co-driver spun in Jacksonville in 2001 and went off course, the toe change ate the tires on the drive back to Atlanta. I bet you had more toe out than you thought.
I talked to Kevin last night and he was going to call you about getting on the rack. If you don't hear from him soon then give him another ring. He's been busy getting the 600+ HP Honda drag car together.
last week I pulled a good 0.5 to 0.75 deg of camber out of the front end. I had been running around with my dry track setup of 3-3.25 deg camber and was tired of wearing the tires on the street. [/QUOTE]
Javid,
I'm willing to bet that it was a toe issue that wore your tires out on the inside. Camber is much more livable. I've run through a few sets of street tires with about 3 degrees neg. with even wear. When my co-driver spun in Jacksonville in 2001 and went off course, the toe change ate the tires on the drive back to Atlanta. I bet you had more toe out than you thought.
I talked to Kevin last night and he was going to call you about getting on the rack. If you don't hear from him soon then give him another ring. He's been busy getting the 600+ HP Honda drag car together.
| AUTOwrXER | 06-08-2006 01:16 PM |
[QUOTE=WRX8XB]we need to make this legal in BSP!!
(i know i know wont happen, looks like SM is in the future!)[/QUOTE]
Write a letter to the SEB and copy me (apexlater "at" hotmail "dot" com). I'll make sure the SPAC discusses it. I doubt it would fly, but you never know.
Joel
(i know i know wont happen, looks like SM is in the future!)[/QUOTE]
Write a letter to the SEB and copy me (apexlater "at" hotmail "dot" com). I'll make sure the SPAC discusses it. I doubt it would fly, but you never know.
Joel
| javid | 06-08-2006 01:17 PM |
cool, cool, Yeah I know I had some toe out but bringing the plates in reduced what ever I had.
I just need to get it alighned....
I just need to get it alighned....
| crystalhelix | 06-08-2006 01:34 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Javid,
I'm willing to bet that it was a toe issue that wore your tires out on the inside. Camber is much more livable. I've run through a few sets of street tires with about 3 degrees neg. with even wear. When my co-driver spun in Jacksonville in 2001 and went off course, the toe change ate the tires on the drive back to Atlanta. I bet you had more toe out than you thought.
I talked to Kevin last night and he was going to call you about getting on the rack. If you don't hear from him soon then give him another ring. He's been busy getting the 600+ HP Honda drag car together.[/QUOTE]
+1 - I hit the streets with my track camber, no issues pittsburgh to peru and back..
Also - Javid I left joo a message...on that cell phone thing you carry..
I'm willing to bet that it was a toe issue that wore your tires out on the inside. Camber is much more livable. I've run through a few sets of street tires with about 3 degrees neg. with even wear. When my co-driver spun in Jacksonville in 2001 and went off course, the toe change ate the tires on the drive back to Atlanta. I bet you had more toe out than you thought.
I talked to Kevin last night and he was going to call you about getting on the rack. If you don't hear from him soon then give him another ring. He's been busy getting the 600+ HP Honda drag car together.[/QUOTE]
+1 - I hit the streets with my track camber, no issues pittsburgh to peru and back..
Also - Javid I left joo a message...on that cell phone thing you carry..
| ToddStratton | 06-08-2006 01:51 PM |
If you're interested in getting these tested at the Nurburgring, I'm your man. I'll even throw in some ring stickers for you.
Todd
Todd
| trs | 06-10-2006 10:46 AM |
You've got another customer here as soon as these are made available. Will be used on my dropped '05 Legacy GT.
| silver arrow | 06-10-2006 02:37 PM |
What class are these legal for in ax? I assume SM or production classes. I know not for S, ST, SP.
| GotWRX03 | 06-10-2006 06:51 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]What class are these legal for in ax? I assume SM or production classes. I know not for S, ST, SP.[/QUOTE]
SM and above.
SM and above.
| Samurai Jack | 06-10-2006 07:31 PM |
[QUOTE=LastResort]BTW alk+these would still be a safe combination, or am I confused?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=javid]On a 16" you should have half that for clearance or 1/2" but.... not all wheels are made equal....[/quote]
[quote=subieworx]I can test on my 16's when we get a set.[/quote]
I, probably like many others, would like to know the answers to the above.
1. What do you think would be the result of mixing the ALKs w/the 6GR extenders?
2. When you test on your 16's, let us know which 16's you tested on, since "not all wheels are made equal".
[quote=javid]We will try to post some data tonight, last night we were surprised to find the control arm drop would actually be useful for a stock ride hieght car, mainly because it is going to roll so much[/quote]
For those of us who are less informed, could you elaborate on this? Are you saying that this even works well on stock ride height cars because it helps maintain proper camber alignment?
[QUOTE=javid]On a 16" you should have half that for clearance or 1/2" but.... not all wheels are made equal....[/quote]
[quote=subieworx]I can test on my 16's when we get a set.[/quote]
I, probably like many others, would like to know the answers to the above.
1. What do you think would be the result of mixing the ALKs w/the 6GR extenders?
2. When you test on your 16's, let us know which 16's you tested on, since "not all wheels are made equal".
[quote=javid]We will try to post some data tonight, last night we were surprised to find the control arm drop would actually be useful for a stock ride hieght car, mainly because it is going to roll so much[/quote]
For those of us who are less informed, could you elaborate on this? Are you saying that this even works well on stock ride height cars because it helps maintain proper camber alignment?
| javid | 06-10-2006 07:39 PM |
alk and this kit will work fine. They are moving/doing different things and won't effect each other.
As for stockish cars these would still be worth while. Even though the car isn't lowered and the geometry isn't 'changed/negatively impacted' a stock car has a significant amount of roll (soft springs and sways). When we modeled it, we assumed 8 deg of roll for a stock car and the kit retained 0.6 deg of camber vs stock. So, using these on a stock car will essentially get you some extra camber (which most stock / lightly modified cars need any ways).
As for stockish cars these would still be worth while. Even though the car isn't lowered and the geometry isn't 'changed/negatively impacted' a stock car has a significant amount of roll (soft springs and sways). When we modeled it, we assumed 8 deg of roll for a stock car and the kit retained 0.6 deg of camber vs stock. So, using these on a stock car will essentially get you some extra camber (which most stock / lightly modified cars need any ways).
| pio!pio! | 06-10-2006 08:04 PM |
are there any negatives of this? I mean if it helps a stock car...then why not design it that way from the factory?
| Samurai Jack | 06-11-2006 10:26 AM |
[QUOTE=javid]alk and this kit will work fine. They are moving/doing different things and won't effect each other.
As for stockish cars these would still be worth while. ....[/QUOTE]
Thanks. (Reading up more on Impreza Roll Center and closely awaiting/watching product testing/release)
As for stockish cars these would still be worth while. ....[/QUOTE]
Thanks. (Reading up more on Impreza Roll Center and closely awaiting/watching product testing/release)
| jamal | 06-13-2006 02:13 AM |
[QUOTE=pio!pio!]are there any negatives of this? I mean if it helps a stock car...then why not design it that way from the factory?[/QUOTE]
The only thing I can come up with is the wheel clearance thing. All the control arms, balljoints, and spindles have basically been the same for the last 16 years. Of course, they could have just made the cross member a bit different.
Oh well. Anyway these things are very cool. Hopefully they work with Subaru 16s.
The only thing I can come up with is the wheel clearance thing. All the control arms, balljoints, and spindles have basically been the same for the last 16 years. Of course, they could have just made the cross member a bit different.
Oh well. Anyway these things are very cool. Hopefully they work with Subaru 16s.
| burnera | 06-13-2006 03:06 AM |
how about:
because the car wasn't designed to be 4" off the ground
because the car wasn't designed to be 4" off the ground
| D_REX | 06-13-2006 06:54 AM |
[QUOTE=burnera]how about:
because the car wasn't designed to be 4" off the ground[/QUOTE]
What is this in response to?
because the car wasn't designed to be 4" off the ground[/QUOTE]
What is this in response to?
| InfernoSTi | 06-13-2006 07:09 AM |
[QUOTE=D_REX]What is this in response to?[/QUOTE]
Does this help?
[QUOTE=pio!pio!]I mean if it helps a stock car...then why not design it that way from the factory?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=burnera]how about:
because the car wasn't designed to be 4" off the ground[/QUOTE]
Does this help?
[QUOTE=pio!pio!]I mean if it helps a stock car...then why not design it that way from the factory?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=burnera]how about:
because the car wasn't designed to be 4" off the ground[/QUOTE]
| javid | 06-13-2006 09:06 AM |
[QUOTE=pio!pio!]are there any negatives of this? I mean if it helps a stock car...then why not design it that way from the factory?[/QUOTE]
They have used the same design for 15+ years.
They have used the same design for 15+ years.
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