| trhoppe | 05-10-2006 01:27 PM |
I'll try to get some screenshots of the suspension modeling together.
-Tom
who on one hand wants to share as much as possible about these, but on the other hand doesn't want people stealing the idea/design :)
-Tom
who on one hand wants to share as much as possible about these, but on the other hand doesn't want people stealing the idea/design :)
| drees | 05-10-2006 02:26 PM |
I've love to see some plots on what the bumpsteer looks like stock and after installing the BJE + TRE (Ball Joint Extender + Tie Rod Extender).
| BIGSKYWRX | 05-10-2006 03:25 PM |
Interesting- never thought about lowering actually increasing track, but makes perfect sense as the arms go towards parallel they would indeed increase track (guessing very, very slightly).
Bumpsteer graph would be nice :) I've read that in stock form the new age mpreza has very little bumpsteer- I know the GC/GF's had some and in the UK they made a pretty big deal about a bumpsteer fix (think they shimmed the steering rack), when they got a new age in they said it wasn't worth as it was so low (bumpsteer).
Bumpsteer graph would be nice :) I've read that in stock form the new age mpreza has very little bumpsteer- I know the GC/GF's had some and in the UK they made a pretty big deal about a bumpsteer fix (think they shimmed the steering rack), when they got a new age in they said it wasn't worth as it was so low (bumpsteer).
| BIGSKYWRX | 05-17-2006 10:47 AM |
bump for pics of the tie rod "fix" :)
| trhoppe | 05-17-2006 11:17 AM |
Javid, you got anything?
I know that the designs are finalized and the thing is on the CNC machine I think today, but I will Javid (the engineering side of our business) speak for sure.
-Tom
I know that the designs are finalized and the thing is on the CNC machine I think today, but I will Javid (the engineering side of our business) speak for sure.
-Tom
| javid | 05-17-2006 12:01 PM |
We finalized the prototype design yesterday. They are going on the lathe today / tomorrow.
| BIGSKYWRX | 05-17-2006 02:40 PM |
pics whenever you get a chance- sounds like things are rolling right along :)
| Turn in Concepts | 05-17-2006 02:42 PM |
GAH!!! Would you guys quit teasing me!!
| AUTOwrXER | 05-17-2006 02:48 PM |
Javid and Tom - I have a new source for doing the CNC prototype work (and maybe the production) that you may be interested in. Give me a shout when you have the need.
| javid | 05-17-2006 03:09 PM |
I will give you a buzz tonight, bud.
| gc835 | 05-17-2006 04:43 PM |
i need these fing things sick stuff guys cheers
| deebee8 | 05-23-2006 12:13 PM |
I need a set ASAP!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE LET ME KNOW IMMEDIETLY!!
| AUTOwrXER | 05-23-2006 03:55 PM |
Tom and Javid - just out of curiosity, are you going to sell these to anyone with a member # greater than 100k? Just curious. It may be a bad idea.
| Porter | 05-23-2006 06:52 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER]Tom and Javid - just out of curiosity, are you going to sell these to anyone with a member # greater than 100k? Just curious. It may be a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
Very good point.
The last thing anybody should want is a damn Agency Power (or other horrible knockoff) version of these things floating around.
Very good point.
The last thing anybody should want is a damn Agency Power (or other horrible knockoff) version of these things floating around.
| trhoppe | 05-23-2006 09:24 PM |
The patent will take care of that ;)
-Tom
-Tom
| BIGSKYWRX | 05-23-2006 10:47 PM |
pics of the tie rod "fix" yet?
| javid | 05-23-2006 10:54 PM |
No pics in hand, but the prototypes are finaly officially done. :banana:
| remowgn | 05-24-2006 01:53 AM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]The patent will take care of that ;)
-Tom[/QUOTE]
No disrespect, but how can you patent something somebody else already sells?
-Tom[/QUOTE]
No disrespect, but how can you patent something somebody else already sells?
| nhluhr | 05-24-2006 01:57 AM |
if somebody else sold it, then I would already have one.
Remember, tom's setup is not a complete balljoint. . .
Remember, tom's setup is not a complete balljoint. . .
| remowgn | 05-24-2006 02:27 AM |
Back when I did HDPE's with my 16V GTI (about 5 years ago), I almost bought a set for that car that looked almost exactly like these. The company was charging about $300 a set for them at the time and I was pretty poor at the time, but yeah... they've been around.
| javid | 05-24-2006 10:40 AM |
Pics will be up once I get back from the shop tonight!
| subieworx | 05-24-2006 11:34 AM |
[QUOTE=nhluhr]if somebody else sold it, then I would already have one.
Remember, tom's setup is not a complete balljoint. . .[/QUOTE]
These have been around for years, that's for sure. Just not for Subarus.
Is a patent even worth the time or effort given the price of these and the fact that they are already marketed to most other cars that can use them?
Remember, tom's setup is not a complete balljoint. . .[/QUOTE]
These have been around for years, that's for sure. Just not for Subarus.
Is a patent even worth the time or effort given the price of these and the fact that they are already marketed to most other cars that can use them?
| nhluhr | 05-24-2006 01:26 PM |
so you make your patent a subaru-application specific one. They issue patents for far less original things. I do agree with you that a patent is totally not worth it, considering you spend about $10,000 through attorney and fees to get a patent, not to mention, the thing holds 0 power unless you are willing to litigate, which costs $$$$ too.
| trhoppe | 05-24-2006 02:39 PM |
We spoke to an attorney and it was going to be FAR less, but still not really worth it. I have a feeling these will take over the ALKs as the "thing to have". We see how many versions of those there are :)
-Tom
-Tom
| LastResort | 05-24-2006 03:26 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]We spoke to an attorney and it was going to be FAR less, but still not really worth it. I have a feeling these will take over the ALKs as the "thing to have". We see how many versions of those there are :)
-Tom[/QUOTE]
I figured that it wouldn't be worth it, as the cheap Chinese knock-off companies don't give a five about US patent law. But, you will have a loyal NASIOC following....
-Tom[/QUOTE]
I figured that it wouldn't be worth it, as the cheap Chinese knock-off companies don't give a five about US patent law. But, you will have a loyal NASIOC following....
| trhoppe | 05-24-2006 03:47 PM |
Cheap knockoffs of strut tower bars are one thing. I'll leave it up to others whether to trust a cheap knockoff of a part that is integral to your suspension ;) :)
-Tom
-Tom
| javid | 05-24-2006 08:37 PM |
THe eagle has landed. :D
| trhoppe | 05-24-2006 08:45 PM |
The chicken has hatched. I repeat, the egg is in the oven. Over.
-Tom
-Tom
| trhoppe | 05-25-2006 10:39 AM |
Balljoint extenders and tie rod extenders went on the dAng mobile last night. They fit like a champ and we took a bunch of pics that we'll upload as soon as they are off the camera. You *might* be able to fit these under 16" wheels, but 17s clear by right around an inch with plenty of room. We are making two small changes to the prototypes today at the machine shop, and then the load testing/fea analysis/track testing begins :)
btw, these things are BEEFY. If I hit javid over the head with one of these, it would be over.
-Tom
btw, these things are BEEFY. If I hit javid over the head with one of these, it would be over.
-Tom
| GotWRX03 | 05-25-2006 10:40 AM |
thanks Tom! that's definitely good news! pics!
| remowgn | 05-25-2006 08:05 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Balljoint extenders and tie rod extenders went on the dAng mobile last night. They fit like a champ and we took a bunch of pics that we'll upload as soon as they are off the camera. You *might* be able to fit these under 16" wheels, but 17s clear by right around an inch with plenty of room. We are making two small changes to the prototypes today at the machine shop, and then the load testing/fea analysis/track testing begins :)
btw, these things are BEEFY. If I hit javid over the head with one of these, it would be over.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
For me personally, non-fitment under 16" wheels would be a huge showstopper. I know a lot of folks use 17's for everything, but my race tires are on 16" wheels and probably will be for a long time. Considering the benefits of these things will really start to show on the track, it would be a shame if they didn't fit. :)
btw, these things are BEEFY. If I hit javid over the head with one of these, it would be over.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
For me personally, non-fitment under 16" wheels would be a huge showstopper. I know a lot of folks use 17's for everything, but my race tires are on 16" wheels and probably will be for a long time. Considering the benefits of these things will really start to show on the track, it would be a shame if they didn't fit. :)
| Templar | 05-25-2006 10:18 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe] btw, these things are BEEFY. If I hit javid over the head with one of these, it would be over.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
By "it would be over" does that mean Javid would kick you out of the house? :devil:
By the way...talk to the other housemate about the other test car for these he currently has in his possesion.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
By "it would be over" does that mean Javid would kick you out of the house? :devil:
By the way...talk to the other housemate about the other test car for these he currently has in his possesion.
| Patrick Olsen | 05-25-2006 11:07 PM |
[QUOTE=remowgn]For me personally, non-fitment under 16" wheels would be a huge showstopper. I know a lot of folks use 17's for everything, but my race tires are on 16" wheels and probably will be for a long time.[/QUOTE]
That's a good point. I have 15"s and 16"s for auto-x and open track, so that would be a bummer if these were a no-go.
Pat
That's a good point. I have 15"s and 16"s for auto-x and open track, so that would be a bummer if these were a no-go.
Pat
| LastResort | 05-25-2006 11:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen]That's a good point. I have 15"s and 16"s for auto-x and open track, so that would be a bummer if these were a no-go.
Pat[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming that these would do the same as ALK's as far as changing class?
BTW alk+these would still be a safe combination, or am I confused?
Pat[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming that these would do the same as ALK's as far as changing class?
BTW alk+these would still be a safe combination, or am I confused?
| trhoppe | 05-26-2006 12:09 AM |
There is no way for 15s. There isn't ANY room to move a balljoint down at all for 15s. The 16s might clear and we have to test them. We currently have an STi, so there is no go on testing 16s. We will get these on a WRX with 16s soon to try. They look like they will fit, but it will be close.
-Tom
-Tom
| petawabit | 05-26-2006 12:30 AM |
looks good! It's been awhile since someone has come out with nice suspension piece for the subaru. You have my business:-)
| InfernoSTi | 05-26-2006 07:54 AM |
[QUOTE=petawabit]looks good! It's been awhile since someone has come out with nice suspension piece for the subaru. You have my business:-)[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Thanks for the updates. I look forward to pictures and test results!
Agreed. Thanks for the updates. I look forward to pictures and test results!
| petawabit | 05-29-2006 06:07 AM |
bump for updates
| DMS North America | 05-29-2006 09:05 AM |
I made some of these up last year as a test, they ended up DESTROYING the ball joints every time. The increase leverage on the ball joints was too much. I went through 3 different designs to try and get them to last, just didn't work. I wish you the best, if it works, I will be happy to promote them.
-mark
[url]www.mooresport.com[/url]
-mark
[url]www.mooresport.com[/url]
| WJM | 05-29-2006 04:49 PM |
[QUOTE=DMS North America]I made some of these up last year as a test, they ended up DESTROYING the ball joints every time. The increase leverage on the ball joints was too much. I went through 3 different designs to try and get them to last, just didn't work. I wish you the best, if it works, I will be happy to promote them.
-mark
[url]www.mooresport.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Quoted because this was something that came up when I was designing the RX's new control arm today.
-mark
[url]www.mooresport.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Quoted because this was something that came up when I was designing the RX's new control arm today.
| alcrudojr #00 | 05-29-2006 05:09 PM |
Saludos,
We just arrived this week from building, tunning and track testing the EDO Performance TT STI. We did put the zerosports ball joint extender wich everybody knows they distribute them. Let me tell you the feeling on the car, turning in, maintaining speed thru the corner and exit was very sharp. The car was very constant thru diferent type of turns and low/high speed turns. We did 4 25min sessions with out any failure or wear characteristic.
Tomorrow we will be posting a full report on the assembly/ tunning and track testing of this car wich be competing on NASA TT and Super Street Time Attack! It was all done from stock to finish on 6 days!
We just arrived this week from building, tunning and track testing the EDO Performance TT STI. We did put the zerosports ball joint extender wich everybody knows they distribute them. Let me tell you the feeling on the car, turning in, maintaining speed thru the corner and exit was very sharp. The car was very constant thru diferent type of turns and low/high speed turns. We did 4 25min sessions with out any failure or wear characteristic.
Tomorrow we will be posting a full report on the assembly/ tunning and track testing of this car wich be competing on NASA TT and Super Street Time Attack! It was all done from stock to finish on 6 days!
| D_REX | 05-29-2006 08:38 PM |
[QUOTE=DMS North America]I made some of these up last year as a test, they ended up DESTROYING the ball joints every time. The increase leverage on the ball joints was too much.[/QUOTE]
I'm confused as to the source of the extra leverage. Ideally, the farther the pivot point of the ball joint is from the centerline of the axle the lower the forces exerted are. In addition on a lowered car the extender should put the ball joint closer to the neutral position reducing the likeliehood for binding due to suspension travel.
Is my analysis inherently flawed or is there something that complicates the system so that this simple analysis doesn't apply?
Thanks,
Dustin
I'm confused as to the source of the extra leverage. Ideally, the farther the pivot point of the ball joint is from the centerline of the axle the lower the forces exerted are. In addition on a lowered car the extender should put the ball joint closer to the neutral position reducing the likeliehood for binding due to suspension travel.
Is my analysis inherently flawed or is there something that complicates the system so that this simple analysis doesn't apply?
Thanks,
Dustin
| trhoppe | 05-30-2006 12:50 AM |
Sorry, I've been at the race track from last thurs to about 10 mins ago. I'll yell at Javid to get the pictures off of the camera and get them posted on here ASAP. The prototypes went back to the machine shop for 1 slight improvement and they should be back full force in a few days.
-Tom
-Tom
| alcrudojr #00 | 05-30-2006 04:37 PM |
here's the car in wich we tested them: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1015045[/url]
| Calamity Jesus | 05-30-2006 05:00 PM |
I'm glad to see that Tom has already yelled at them about the Cusco Guillotine, so the rest of us don't have to.
| javid | 05-31-2006 04:37 PM |
Hoppe has da pics and will be hosting them shortly. :)
| trhoppe | 05-31-2006 04:45 PM |
We got a couple of pics up and hosted. I'll get the rest taken care of when I get home later.
[img]http://www.6gunracing.com/misc_pics/install1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.6gunracing.com/misc_pics/install2.jpg[/img]
:)
edit: oops, can you spot the other "prototyping" 6 gun part thats also on the car? ;)
-Tom
[img]http://www.6gunracing.com/misc_pics/install1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.6gunracing.com/misc_pics/install2.jpg[/img]
:)
edit: oops, can you spot the other "prototyping" 6 gun part thats also on the car? ;)
-Tom
| pio!pio! | 05-31-2006 05:32 PM |
iz it ze brake duct?
| trhoppe | 05-31-2006 05:34 PM |
zeee ducting it is :)
-Tom
-Tom
| remowgn | 05-31-2006 05:51 PM |
Whoa, now that's beefy! It looks like it will be pretty close on the 16" wheel fitment, but from that angle it looks like it should clear.
| pio!pio! | 05-31-2006 05:52 PM |
now u just need fan blade rims to blow the air out of the wheel area :P:P:P
| javid | 05-31-2006 05:55 PM |
I just realized that there is more custom / aftermarket / or 05 parts in the top pic than there are 04 OEM parts. :lol: I wonder if SOA would warrenty anything outside my tranny.
| javid | 05-31-2006 05:57 PM |
[QUOTE=remowgn]Whoa, now that's beefy! It looks like it will be pretty close on the 16" wheel fitment, but from that angle it looks like it should clear.[/QUOTE]
On those rims, 5Zigen Fn01R-C 17x10 ET35 there was ~1" of clearance. On a 16" you should have half that for clearance or 1/2" but.... not all wheels are made equal....
On those rims, 5Zigen Fn01R-C 17x10 ET35 there was ~1" of clearance. On a 16" you should have half that for clearance or 1/2" but.... not all wheels are made equal....
| S.G.D | 05-31-2006 10:34 PM |
very very cool.
what are the impressions on the track so far?
what are the impressions on the track so far?
| javid | 06-01-2006 09:25 AM |
Haven't been on track yet... will update soon.
| subieworx | 06-01-2006 09:48 AM |
[QUOTE=javid]On those rims, 5Zigen Fn01R-C 17x10 ET35 there was ~1" of clearance. On a 16" you should have half that for clearance or 1/2" but.... not all wheels are made equal....[/QUOTE]
I can test on my 16's when we get a set.
I can test on my 16's when we get a set.
| petawabit | 06-03-2006 04:25 AM |
if we have tie rods that control and adjust bump steer, would those be able to mimick the effect of your bump-steer-correction devices or are there more functions of it? just wondering what I would need to get from you guys
| BIGSKYWRX | 06-03-2006 10:25 AM |
^ do you already have the Baer units? I don't see them for sale anymore for the WRX????
| petawabit | 06-03-2006 03:19 PM |
yeah. I'll see if I can find the part number.
| javid | 06-05-2006 09:08 AM |
[QUOTE=petawabit]if we have tie rods that control and adjust bump steer, would those be able to mimick the effect of your bump-steer-correction devices or are there more functions of it? just wondering what I would need to get from you guys[/QUOTE]
You would just need the ball joint adapter provided the tie rod piece taht you have can extend out to 1.25" aka 32mm. Where can we purchase what you have?
You would just need the ball joint adapter provided the tie rod piece taht you have can extend out to 1.25" aka 32mm. Where can we purchase what you have?
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