Thứ Năm, 3 tháng 11, 2016

Can we get a "fix those rattles" thread going? part 11

joshjames 12-21-2010 05:58 PM

I have a rattle or friction sound coming from the passenger side, base of the a pilar. It doesn't seem to be just the vent. I haven't had a chance to open it up. Rip a brand new car apart.....to find a rattle.

Doe the panels at the very sides of the dash come off without too much trouble? Couldn't see any visible screws, blanks or clips.
lilstahlly22 12-22-2010 02:08 AM

I have a high pitched squeak/ rattle coming from the front left fender. If I knock the fender up by the headlight i can hear it rattle. It's like a bolt or two is loose in the fender but I have no clue where to start greasing/ tightening bolts. Anyone had this or know how to take off a fender??
clbd39 12-30-2010 06:51 PM

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feDvi2_ONE0"]YouTube - 2002 WRX 3rd Gear Problem[/ame]

I was just driving and heard some clicking, stopped, didn't see anything and continued. The sound got a bit worse and then I noticed 3rd gear made it 10 x's louder and the shifter shakes pretty bad in 3rd gear, it doesn't slip out of gear and I can go, but it just doesn't sound good at all.

No it's NOT a heat shield, if you pay attention to the video you can hear it when i'm coasting in neutral and you can hear it slightly in 2nd gear

2002 WRX by the way, stock tranny, ACT Street modified clutch (1 year old)
lilstahlly22 12-30-2010 07:36 PM

[quote=clbd39;32873296][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feDvi2_ONE0"]YouTube - 2002 WRX 3rd Gear Problem[/URL]

I was just driving and heard some clicking, stopped, didn't see anything and continued. The sound got a bit worse and then I noticed 3rd gear made it 10 x's louder and the shifter shakes pretty bad in 3rd gear, it doesn't slip out of gear and I can go, but it just doesn't sound good at all.

No it's NOT a heat shield, if you pay attention to the video you can hear it when i'm coasting in neutral and you can hear it slightly in 2nd gear

2002 WRX by the way, stock tranny, ACT Street modified clutch (1 year old)[/quote]
Had the same problem. pop off your trim around your shift nob. The 6 allen wrench style "screws" that look like they hold on that piece of trim have nuts that hold them on the bottom. I found that all of those nuts had fallen off and were getting wedged between the bottom shaft of the shifter so it sounded like grinding. Took them all out and retightened them on the bolts. Could be something more serious but honestly give this a try man look up how to pry off that piece its a super easy check and could be the problem! Good luck let me know if that was it!
clbd39 12-30-2010 11:10 PM

Any photos of what they might be? I found this PDF that seems to show the underside decently
[url]http://www.twmperformance.com/manuals/2002%20Subaru%20Impreza%20WRX%20and%20RS.pdf[/url]
clbd39 12-30-2010 11:11 PM

[quote=lilstahlly22;32873652]Had the same problem. pop off your trim around your shift nob. The 6 allen wrench style "screws" that look like they hold on that piece of trim have nuts that hold them on the bottom. I found that all of those nuts had fallen off and were getting wedged between the bottom shaft of the shifter so it sounded like grinding. Took them all out and retightened them on the bolts. Could be something more serious but honestly give this a try man look up how to pry off that piece its a super easy check and could be the problem! Good luck let me know if that was it![/quote]

Well that's pretty good news! But would it make that sound louder JUST in third?
lilstahlly22 12-31-2010 08:03 AM

[quote=clbd39;32875035]Well that's pretty good news! But would it make that sound louder JUST in third?[/quote]
It would just mean that the nuts are wedged in between the shifter where third gear is. For me 4th gear was the bad one so the nuts were wedged on the other side. Like I said its an easy check and wort a shot
little johnny 12-31-2010 09:11 AM

Hmm..
if something rattles.. ->yank it out!

..weight reduction :D
clbd39 12-31-2010 01:51 PM

I have an 02 wrx by the way, no trim around my shifter knob like an STI...
jdmeg693 01-03-2011 05:39 PM

[quote=carbs18;32756690]Has anyone tried to pop the driver's side defroster vent out on a 2009 Impreza?

Mine squeaks like crazy, I've been cranking the heat even in the summer to get it to stop!

thanks much:D[/quote]

ive got the same issue on my 06. rattles and squeaks a lot. driving me nuts
hugheser 01-06-2011 10:59 AM

At least we know the value of the car is in the powertrain and not the lovely abundance of cheap plastic. Ive had a tech reapply the weatherstripping on my driver's side window twice and it still howls, but at least it drowns out the rattling of the driver's side air vent :D
elizerkim 01-07-2011 07:39 AM

i get a noticable clunking noise from the rear when driving at low speeds. like someones throwing a padded brick around the trunk. Anyone have something similar
gmhracer 02-05-2011 07:57 PM

just put in a sub, and when its hitting, which isn't too hard, there is a rattle on where the 3rd brake light is but on the driver side of the panel. I know its that little carpeted panel because when I rest my hand on it, it stops. anyone have suggestion on what to do to stop it?

also when standing outside the car I hear a noise on each side of the car in the rear. I located it to these little vents in each of the rear corners that have like rubber flaps on them. One is behind where the jack is located. Does anyone know how to shut those up as well?

Thanks!
sans meaning 02-05-2011 08:01 PM

[quote=elizerkim;32938037]i get a noticable clunking noise from the rear when driving at low speeds. like someones throwing a padded brick around the trunk. Anyone have something similar[/quote]

I would guess rear struts.
draco159 02-05-2011 08:09 PM

[quote=gmhracer;33219150]just put in a sub, and when its hitting, which isn't too hard, there is a rattle on where the 3rd brake light is but on the driver side of the panel. I know its that little carpeted panel because when I rest my hand on it, it stops. anyone have suggestion on what to do to stop it?

also when standing outside the car I hear a noise on each side of the car in the rear. I located it to these little vents in each of the rear corners that have like rubber flaps on them. One is behind where the jack is located. Does anyone know how to shut those up as well?

Thanks![/quote]

Those flaps are to equalize the air pressure in the car when you shut the door....might want to keep them open
gmhracer 02-05-2011 08:11 PM

[quote=draco159;33219239]Those flaps are to equalize the air pressure in the car when you shut the door....might want to keep them open[/quote]

I planned on keepin them open. Just didn't know if I could quiet them up some how.
carbs18 02-07-2011 02:15 PM

vent
[quote=jdmeg693;32901203]ive got the same issue on my 06. rattles and squeaks a lot. driving me nuts[/quote]

So i have since popped out both defroster vents, covered them with felt and popped them back in, and it STILL squeaks, maybe a different squeak but that didnt' fix it.

I've put business cards in the crack along the pillar and the dash. That fixed the passenger side, but the driver's side still squeaks (but it IS definitely much better).

I'm going to try between the windshield and the dash next, since it seems other's have had that issue too.

The business cards don't look pretty but once i find that squeak i plan on replacing them with something that blends in better :-)
txl146 02-07-2011 04:18 PM

Passenger side makes really loud squeaking noise when someone sits on it. It's annoying.
shredthegnarnia 02-07-2011 07:43 PM

what about the clock/dash rattle?
carcassxd 02-08-2011 12:13 PM

I've got a little rattle/buzz issue with my 2011 wrx hatch. Maybe someone can help. It's definitely coming from the passenger side and its more of a buzz then rattle. Not too loud but it's annoying. It almost sounds like it's coming from underneath the glovebox. I tried emptying out the box and ride with it open, same thing. More noticeable over bumps and rough road. I cant totally rule out the passenger door though, maybe its coming from there. Hard to tell in the car by yourself. I've only got 1700 miles but would like to avoid the dealer as they trashed the last car I brought them.
sti* fan 02-09-2011 03:42 AM

[quote=haberkorn;32413187]I just fixed a rattle that has been driving me ape **** for the last 1 and a half years. It's a clicking/clacking coming from what seemed like the strut tower on the passanger side rear. After stuffing a buddy in the pass through in the backseat and driving around, we isolated the noise to a bolt that holds two panels together below the plastic cover on the rear decklid.

After tightening the crap out of the bolt the noise was not nearly as prevalent but was still there over big bumps. I bought a roll of RaamMat and did the entire underside of the rear decklid and I haven't heard a sound since.

I was ready to sell the car because of this rattle.[/quote]

I want to give what you did a try but I'm not exactly clear on where the bolt is you mentioned. do you have to remove any panels, seats, etc to find it? is it accessed through the passenger seating area or the trunk? did you dynamat the actual decklid or the package shelf? thanks a bunch in advance
Makrel 02-10-2011 12:16 PM

THIS.

THIS is what a Forum Thread should look like. No harassing, bragging, BS, unintelligible slang or lazy helplessness.

This is THE most informative post I've ever seen on here. It's perfect.
Problems and Solutions.

It's awesome.

***Please keep this up***
sti* fan 02-10-2011 02:42 PM

[quote=sti* fan;33249288]I want to give what you did a try but I'm not exactly clear on where the bolt is you mentioned. do you have to remove any panels, seats, etc to find it? is it accessed through the passenger seating area or the trunk? did you dynamat the actual decklid or the package shelf? thanks a bunch in advance[/quote]

UPDATE:

The rattle I was dealing with was the "rapid tapping noise" in the rear of the car that sounds like fingernails tapping. My rear coilover apparently can make the exact same sound. I removed wheel sprayed some wd40 at the highest point of coilover and the sound is gone for now. I will probably try a thicker grease later down the road, possibly lithium grease.
sc00biehead 02-14-2011 02:06 AM

Third Brake light in my 2006 WRX is driving me nuts in the rear. Keeps vibrating against the window as my subwoofer is banging. Any ideas?

I was thinking of putting some sort of gasket around the outside. Not too much or looks tacky
CanadaBeau 02-14-2011 03:32 PM

For any two surfaces that rattle against each other due to a slight gap between them, try putting a layer or two of electrical tape in the gap. Cut the tape to shape if you want it to be discreet. Take the surfaces apart, then put tape on one surface, the other surface will just touch the tape and it should provide some vibration dampening due to it being rubbery. I've fixed many vibrations like this and it works well for a long time, as long as the tape stays sandwiched between the two surfaces.

Sc00biehead, this would probably work for you if you can take the light completely out and then put tape on it where you can't see it, then put the light back in its place.
mikerulzu 02-14-2011 04:08 PM

I took my 2011 into the dealer to get the door & rear deck rattles fixed. It took about 90 minutes, and they fixed both for me without asking any questions. Very nice being able to take my bass above -3 and not hear crazy rattles in the passenger door.
RAzevedo330 02-14-2011 04:11 PM

I have a rattle coming from my back seats rear window area for my 2011 WRX sedan. any ideas on what it could be?
nobletea 02-14-2011 04:45 PM

[quote=carcassxd;33241291]I've got a little rattle/buzz issue with my 2011 wrx hatch. Maybe someone can help. It's definitely coming from the passenger side and its more of a buzz then rattle. Not too loud but it's annoying. It almost sounds like it's coming from underneath the glovebox. I tried emptying out the box and ride with it open, same thing. More noticeable over bumps and rough road. I cant totally rule out the passenger door though, maybe its coming from there. Hard to tell in the car by yourself. I've only got 1700 miles but would like to avoid the dealer as they trashed the last car I brought them.[/quote]

You got a center console armrest extension?
mikkels 02-14-2011 09:55 PM

rattle/vibrating noise when driving in heavy rain help
i get this when i'm driving highway 60-65mph in heavy rain. And i have had it happen around town in the winter on slushy roads at about 30mph. Any help would be appreciated. Oh one is with summer tires the other is with winter tires.
gannerboy 02-15-2011 03:19 AM

Summary of how I removed a bunch of rattles/clicks from my rear hatch in my 2011 STi hatch.

Removed all plastic panels on the hatch, padded and taped down all plastic wire clips with electrical tape and foam insulation.

Some plastic pieces were lightly tapping the metal of the hatch, so I put some sticky window foam insulators under it.

My privacy shield roll-up thingy was causing major creaking, so I took it apart, unwound it, and used electrical tape inside the end caps (taped a square around the aluminum that sits inside the cap)

Seems to have gotten rid of all my noises coming from the rear.
riderome 02-15-2011 01:58 PM

My dash goes insane on my 05 sti. A light rattle from the left near the door card and another right where the cluster meets the underpanel. A bird like tweet. Anyone else?
ragejed 02-18-2011 08:53 AM

[quote=riderome;33307644]My dash goes insane on my 05 sti. A light rattle from the left near the door card and another right where the cluster meets the underpanel. A bird like tweet. Anyone else?[/quote]

Same crap on my 05wrx. Good luck... been trying to quiet that **** for years :mad:
foolycooly 02-18-2011 08:58 AM

I fixed a HUGE rattle that had been bothering me for days...by removing my garage door opener from my passenger side visor. :unamused:

Now just left with the two legit ones: speaker buzz (both sides on loud/certain bass frequency music) and the rear decklid (this is the only one that is fairly consistent).
RAzevedo330 02-18-2011 12:29 PM

[quote=mikerulzu;33298563]I took my 2011 into the dealer to get the door & rear deck rattles fixed. It took about 90 minutes, and they fixed both for me without asking any questions. Very nice being able to take my bass above -3 and not hear crazy rattles in the passenger door.[/quote]

Any idea what they did?
Tigerotor77W 02-20-2011 01:39 PM

[quote=foolycooly;33337312]I fixed a HUGE rattle that had been bothering me for days...by removing my garage door opener from my passenger side visor. :unamused:

Now just left with the two legit ones: speaker buzz (both sides on loud/certain bass frequency music) and the rear decklid (this is the only one that is fairly consistent).[/quote]

The latter is easily addressed by your dealer.
dsmtweaker 02-21-2011 04:36 PM

Well, called the dealer last week about getting an appointment for the door rattle. They said they "can't find any information on it" but I could bring it in today for them to look at.

Brought it in today, they claim there is nothing wrong, and all the noises are perfectly normal.
Tigerotor77W 02-27-2011 04:45 PM

How long did they look at it?

For the chirping around my center console, my dealer warned me that beyond what they've already tried, they'd need to remove the entire dash -- but they still offered to do it. If it bothers you enough, I'd recommend either pushing for a fix (they honestly should be able to address the issue) or following the DIY fix that's been posted here.
kariusvega 03-11-2011 08:14 PM

2005 wrx sti rattle upon turbo spool
2005 wrx sti, when i rolled it off the lot there was a rattle once the turbo would spool. dealership (gmc) said it was only the turbo winding up.. but it didn't really sound right.

took it to a legit subie dealer for a tune up and the noise was gone after i left there. they made it sound like something was loose? not really sure what it was though.

now it seems like it is creeping back. anyone have an idea of what this rattle may be coming from? sounds like an easy adjustment to fix it.
mikerulzu 03-12-2011 01:12 AM

[quote=RAzevedo330;33339459]Any idea what they did?[/quote]

For the passenger side door, they said there was a small piece of plastic that was rattling, which has been addressed in a couple DIY threads here before. I was too lazy to do it myself, and the dealership is on my way to work with wifi in the waiting room, so I just got it done there.

For the hatch noises, they took it all apart and resecured it, I guess, but the noise came back within a couple weeks. I just stuck a bunch of padded tape along the edges and made sure the clips were all secure. I think it was mostly one of the side panels that popped out that was causing most of the noise, and it's gone again.
foolycooly 03-18-2011 03:02 PM

aside from the rear decklid one that I still plan on having the dealership look at during my first oil change, a new extremely annoying rattle has started.

it seems to be located where both a-pillars meet the front dash (one on the driver's side and one on the passenger side). It clicks every time I go over a bump (even a pretty small one) and is louder than other ones i've dealt with.

Anyone have any experience with this or had a dealer look at it? I'd assume the only way to fix it is to take the entire dash off.
pastaq 03-19-2011 07:54 PM

I had an issue with a wiper blade that was rattling on my 04 wrx. I just found/fixed it today so i figured i would add to this post.

Over time one of the bolts for holding the base of the wiper link to the chassis unscrewed and eventually came off completely. This caused my right side wiper to perform poorly at a stop or slow speeds and be pretty much useless at highway speed as the tension that was supposed to hold the wiper to the windshield was now pushing the wiper link vertically. The washer and the wiper arm both made a very loud rattle when i was in low rpm at wither 4th or 5th gear. Fixing it was a little difficult. In order to get to the bolt that had come out you needed to remove the cowl and wiper arms. Unfortunately the way the arms are designed they use the stability that bolt provides when to shimmy the arms off the bolts that rotate the wiper. The cowl covers the bolt however and can only be removed after the wiper arms. I had to lift up the cowl and then push down on the base so i could remove the arm. A bit of a pain since it is in the middle of the car. I damaged the cowl a little bit where the wiper arm connects and broke off one of the clips that holds the cowl down. If i had to do it again i would not have lifted the cowl so high that it started to go up the arm as that was what caused the damage.
joecoolly14 03-19-2011 11:24 PM

I have a dash rattle thats been driving me NUTS lately, It seems to come from my two center vents below the radio, I have a '11 wrx sedan omg its horrible, if I press anything like the radio or the vents themselves the rattle stops but then comes right back. I cant figure it out for the life of me
04furesterXT 03-21-2011 05:17 PM

Do you have a Homelink mirror? I swore my rattle was in the dash near the center vents until I touched the mirror once and the rattle stopped...
cnoz 03-21-2011 10:41 PM

[quote=04furesterXT;33635540]Do you have a Homelink mirror? I swore my rattle was in the dash near the center vents until I touched the mirror once and the rattle stopped...[/quote]

I have that REALLY bad too. It got way worse when I got my windshield replaced. I think they did a crappy job gluing it back on.
jeanluconze 03-22-2011 01:07 PM

2011 WRX rear deck lid - check trunk cables!
[quote=RAzevedo330;33298590]I have a rattle coming from my back seats rear window area for my 2011 WRX sedan. any ideas on what it could be?[/quote]

I had the same problem - sounded a lot like the rear deck lid vibrating against the rear window. I shoved a bunch of foam up under the deck lid to put pressure on it, but still had the noise.

I found out that it was actually the emergency trunk release cable and handle, both of which are flopping around inside the trunk lid. Pull off the felt liner to the trunk lid and put foam tape on the body panels where this cable touches. No more rattles!
SierraScoob 03-29-2011 12:45 AM

New rattle

Low speeds when letting off the clutch or pulling into driveway/parking spot. Sounds like it is coming from the pedal area or around there and it just kinda sounds like my keys rubbing the steering column but they aren't. Pretty faint but SUPER annoying.
Spec_Ops2087 04-07-2011 09:34 AM

Does anyone have the center console / arm rest rattle in a 2011 wrx / sti? The seam where the arm rest latches to rattles like crazy and drives me NUTS. I tres shoving a bunch of electrical tape in there and also took apart the whole console only to have it come back. Any ideas???
vapore0n 04-11-2011 12:32 PM

Was the driver side A-Pillar rattle noise coming from the air vent ever fixed?

Here is how I fixed (hopefully permanent fix) mine.

1. Take the gauge panel plastic cover off. Its 2 screws up on top and 2 clips on bottom. Just remove the 2 screws and then just pull it out.
2. Re-insert the top vent duct to the vent outlet. Seems like it would rattle if not properly installed.
3. Put some insulation or tape or other material around the top air duct. This would prevent it from moving around and making contact with the bottom duct, which seems to be noise we hear.
4. Put everything back.

Did this yesterday. That noise drove me crazy to the point where i wanted to sell the car. Now its gone, and I like my car once more :D

Plan on doing the same thing with the passenger side. Just to make sure.
vapore0n 04-11-2011 12:32 PM

removed.
double post
WR20X 04-11-2011 04:20 PM

08+ wrx need to find a way to stop the windshield wipers from clicking every time the wipe.
mrkyle3 04-14-2011 08:19 PM

After installing my shortshifter I have a rattle/squeak that's caused by the silver plastic piece that the shift boot is attached to rubbing up against the dash when I go over bumpy roads.

I just took it out and reseated it and hope that fixes the problem but if it doesn't I'll probably go buy some foam "feet" (those little circles with adhesive on one side) and put them where it rubs and hope that fixes it.
gustagen 05-02-2011 07:36 PM

My "new" 02 WRX wagon is pretty rattle-free, but I had one annoying high pitched buzzing sound that I couldn't quite pinpoint. I read through this entire thread looking for someone with the same sound but no luck.

In the driver's seat, it sounds like its coming from the driver's door. Front passengers also agree to that location. After a trip around the neighborhood with the door panel removed, I concluded it wasn't in the door. If I moved my head down and leaned toward the door, the sound "moved" toward the steering column or center dash area. Very strange.

The sound usually started about 3-5 minutes after starting the car and driving, and would persist during movement and even at idle. Sounds like a constant high-pitched bird chirp.

Today during a long trip on the highway I finally found it--[B]the driver's oh sh** handle![/B] I lightly pressed on it and the noise went away. I pulled the handle to the "open" position and that seemed to reduce it. I'll be pulling the plastic covers off to see if the bolts are loose or what. Hope this helps someone else.

[B]EDIT:[/B] I removed the handle and drove around a bit and the noise is still there. Seems the front mount for the handle is actually loose from the roof. I can wiggle it around about 1/8" in all directions, unlike the rear mount. Gonna pull the headliner and see what the deal is.

[B]EDIT 2: Finally found the source of the noise. The front bolt of the oh sh** handle mount was MIA.[/B]
jonklein611 05-05-2011 07:31 AM

For those of you with a 2011 WRX Hatch that has a squeak coming from the rear hatch cover, there's now a TSB to fix that! Hooray!

Service Bulletin # 12-126-11
Pages: 3

Bulletin Description: If you encounter a customer complaint that there is a squeak type sound heard coming from the tonneau cover when driving on bumpy roads and/or when opening or closing the cover, the right hand holder may need to be replaced. A modification was made to the holder to eliminate the sound. In lieu of replacing the tonneau cover, the holder is now available as a service part. Refer to the service procedure listed for replacing the holder.
oyoquem 05-05-2011 12:55 PM

[quote="jonklein611"]For those of you with a 2011 WRX Hatch that has a squeak coming from the rear hatch cover, there's now a TSB to fix that! Hooray!

Service Bulletin # 12-126-11
Pages: 3

Bulletin Description: If you encounter a customer complaint that there is a squeak type sound heard coming from the tonneau cover when driving on bumpy roads and/or when opening or closing the cover, the right hand holder may need to be replaced. A modification was made to the holder to eliminate the sound. In lieu of replacing the tonneau cover, the holder is now available as a service part. Refer to the service procedure listed for replacing the holder.[/quote]

Sweet. Thanks.
kariusvega 05-05-2011 02:20 PM

[quote=kariusvega;33549997]2005 wrx sti, when i rolled it off the lot there was a rattle once the turbo would spool. dealership (gmc) said it was only the turbo winding up.. but it didn't really sound right.

took it to a legit subie dealer for a tune up and the noise was gone after i left there. they made it sound like something was loose? not really sure what it was though.

now it seems like it is creeping back. anyone have an idea of what this rattle may be coming from? sounds like an easy adjustment to fix it.[/quote]

So after white smoke began coming out of my exhaust, blow off valve, and from my turbo followed by talking to 5 professionals apparently my turbo seal is broken which means I have to replace the turbo and flush the intercooler due to oil being all up in the plumbing. Guess we solved that one!

1200 dollars later I'm considering dropping another 4grand and taking my sti to forged performance.. Hmm

In it to win it. Feels like I bought a lemon even though I could crack 400 horses. Car only has 28000 miles on it.. :taco:
Pineapple Devil 05-05-2011 03:49 PM

2011 in/on the dash somewhere in the middle between the top of the radio and the clock. i think it is the plastic in front of the clock but unsure
oyoquem 05-08-2011 09:04 PM

[quote=Pineapple Devil;34025258]2011 in/on the dash somewhere in the middle between the top of the radio and the clock. i think it is the plastic in front of the clock but unsure[/quote]
I had a rattle coming from my clock on my 2011 WRX. I took the stereo out and found a loose screw that holds the clock to the dash. Tightened it up and it got rid of the rattle.
Imprezzive23 05-08-2011 09:58 PM

[quote=nick04263;11947170]I have been having a noise which seems to be coming from between my windshield and dashboard. I knwo it is from the cold weather. Anyone else?[/quote]
oh God yes...so freaking annoying
SWP impreza GH 05-12-2011 10:32 PM

What is the Service bulletin # for 2011 wrx door rattles when the music is on?
805scooby 06-02-2011 12:24 AM

i had them all on my 04 STi: cruise control button, rear window, glove box, passenger door, vin plate, behind stereo. Then once a month or so a new rattle would pop up then go away. so anyways the fix was to sell the rattle trap and buy a car with a proper interior. The damn interior drove me crazy and was my main reason for selling. subaru really needs to step up and start taking more time when putting an interior together, especially when the cars suspension is gunna be as stiff as an sti...Now I know why they call it a **** box

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