| AZ-GT | 08-24-2005 07:37 PM |
If you go the Miscellaneous For Sale forum on EvolutionM they have a group buy showing on them for under $200
| b00st3d | 08-25-2005 12:49 AM |
[QUOTE=AZ-GT]If you go the Miscellaneous For Sale forum on EvolutionM they have a group buy showing on them for under $200[/QUOTE]
the evo version may not fit the impreza though?
the evo version may not fit the impreza though?
| leeden | 08-25-2005 01:54 PM |
[QUOTE=CreoWRX]If you use 3M Automotive Tape and prepare the surfaces correctly, it should hold just fine. The rear lip spoiler on the trunk of the BMW M3 (E46) is held on with double-sided tape.
-Mike-[/QUOTE]
How is the surface prepared? By removing the wax?
-Mike-[/QUOTE]
How is the surface prepared? By removing the wax?
| yaggi | 08-25-2005 03:20 PM |
So where can we buy this?
| jmanrex | 08-25-2005 06:55 PM |
[QUOTE=leeden]How is the surface prepared? By removing the wax?[/QUOTE]
use a little iso alcohol to take of the wax and contaminants and then just use a little promotor for the 3m tape and it will stick
use a little iso alcohol to take of the wax and contaminants and then just use a little promotor for the 3m tape and it will stick
| Alizarin | 08-25-2005 11:35 PM |
[QUOTE=b00st3d]the evo version may not fit the impreza though?[/QUOTE]
You might have to fab a bit, but I'm sure it would be pretty close. The cars don't seem to be THAT horribly different in terms of roof shape.
You might have to fab a bit, but I'm sure it would be pretty close. The cars don't seem to be THAT horribly different in terms of roof shape.
| itjustWoRX | 08-26-2005 12:32 AM |
yeah...i was like the second or third poster in this thread...
how bout an update?
is this piece for sale anywhere yet?
---TOM
how bout an update?
is this piece for sale anywhere yet?
---TOM
| singletrack | 08-27-2005 08:10 PM |
[QUOTE=AZ-GT][url]http://forum.scoobywales.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=437[/url][/QUOTE]
Man, I love that wing too.
Man, I love that wing too.
| tjhksig | 08-27-2005 09:45 PM |
Replicas are on Ebay right now for like $150
| WuWrx | 08-28-2005 12:42 AM |
[QUOTE=tjhksig]Replicas are on Ebay right now for like $150[/QUOTE]
link??? thanks
link??? thanks
| WuWrx | 08-28-2005 01:05 AM |
i just checked ebay and it said (carbon look)... i dont think its made out of real carbonfiber...
| jmanrex | 08-28-2005 08:39 AM |
they have carbon look, white abs, or black abs
[URL=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-05-Subaru-Impreza-WRX-Sti-Roof-Fin-ABS-White_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42611QQitemZ4570442903QQrdZ1]here is the link[/URL]
[URL=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-05-Subaru-Impreza-WRX-Sti-Roof-Fin-ABS-White_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42611QQitemZ4570442903QQrdZ1]here is the link[/URL]
| Smelli Bugatti | 08-28-2005 01:46 PM |
I love it, but would want it world rally blue
| STi-MAN | 08-28-2005 02:28 PM |
no thanks on the replicas ill prob wait till the charge speeds come in.
| BlackedOut REX | 08-28-2005 05:24 PM |
[QUOTE=ittybitty_STI]Those are hot! how would that look with the rear window visor? how would you go about to purchace one of those?? and those carbon brake duct?[/QUOTE]
They sell rear window visor's for our car? or do u mean just a tint visor?
They sell rear window visor's for our car? or do u mean just a tint visor?
| supermarkus | 08-29-2005 03:05 PM |
What do you guys think of this one?
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/img]
| Twisted STi | 08-29-2005 03:27 PM |
I'd put it on my car :)
| shogun90 | 08-29-2005 03:48 PM |
I ordered one
�
�
[QUOTE=supermarkus]What do you guys think of this one?
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I ordered one from them. It was supposed to ship around 8/20 but I haven't heard from them since they sent me a second email to confirm the shipping address. Let's cross our fingers and hope all is ok. It is supposed to come from Taiwan.
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I ordered one from them. It was supposed to ship around 8/20 but I haven't heard from them since they sent me a second email to confirm the shipping address. Let's cross our fingers and hope all is ok. It is supposed to come from Taiwan.
| MidnightSti05 | 08-29-2005 03:56 PM |
[QUOTE=Homerisking]yeah those are nice...i'll take the lip and the duct$....mmmmm
[IMG]http://www.chargespeed.com/photo/bonnet/gdb_b_duct_1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I don't think those fog covers will fit with the USDM bumper beam, at least I had a problem trying to fit Syms fog covers which are similiar and very JDM. If these fit the USDM front bumpber I would paint them and buy them in a second!
I want that lip! :disco:
[IMG]http://www.chargespeed.com/photo/bonnet/gdb_b_duct_1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I don't think those fog covers will fit with the USDM bumper beam, at least I had a problem trying to fit Syms fog covers which are similiar and very JDM. If these fit the USDM front bumpber I would paint them and buy them in a second!
I want that lip! :disco:
| typer_126 | 08-29-2005 04:04 PM |
FYI, for everyone who may be interested in a group buy, Adam from Z1 has agreed to help us out. I've started a new thread to gather names here:
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10879913#post10879913]Chargespeed Roof Fin GB[/URL]
Mike
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10879913#post10879913]Chargespeed Roof Fin GB[/URL]
Mike
| WuWrx | 08-29-2005 04:34 PM |
[QUOTE=shogun90]I ordered one from them. It was supposed to ship around 8/20 but I haven't heard from them since they sent me a second email to confirm the shipping address. Let's cross our fingers and hope all is ok. It is supposed to come from Taiwan.[/QUOTE]
can you tell me how much you got it for after tax and shipping thanks
can you tell me how much you got it for after tax and shipping thanks
| shogun90 | 08-29-2005 07:18 PM |
It cost just over $200, that included shipping.
[QUOTE=WuWrx]can you tell me how much you got it for after tax and shipping thanks[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=WuWrx]can you tell me how much you got it for after tax and shipping thanks[/QUOTE]
| yaggi | 08-29-2005 07:28 PM |
shogun90....that piece looks just as nice as the chargespeed!! and much cheaper in price. What was the website address that you ordered it from. Also, let us know when you get an update on your order so we can make sure this place is legit.
Thanks
Thanks
| shogun90 | 08-29-2005 07:31 PM |
[QUOTE=yaggi]shogun90....that piece looks just as nice as the chargespeed!! and much cheaper in price. What was the website address that you ordered it from. Also, let us know when you get an update on your order so we can make sure this place is legit.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
The fins look a little taller than the chargespeed one. Hope it comes out ok.
I bought it off ebay. I went with the carbon fiber looking on, almost went for the metallic black one before they had the carbon fiber option. I will post any updates on this thread.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
The fins look a little taller than the chargespeed one. Hope it comes out ok.
I bought it off ebay. I went with the carbon fiber looking on, almost went for the metallic black one before they had the carbon fiber option. I will post any updates on this thread.
| typer_126 | 08-29-2005 07:40 PM |
Yep the fins are a little larger and there's 6 instead of the 7 that are on the Chargespeed.
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chargespeed.com/photo/bonnet/gdb_roof_1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chargespeed.com/photo/bonnet/gdb_roof_2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chargespeed.com/photo/bonnet/gdb_roof_1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.chargespeed.com/photo/bonnet/gdb_roof_2.jpg[/IMG]
| WRX Ver.7 | 08-29-2005 07:57 PM |
I was thinking about purchasing one of these but I am afraid that with the rear cab visor, it would look to gawdy. I dont know what I will do about it now. May order, place on car, see if I like it then go from there.
| Whiplash | 08-29-2005 11:55 PM |
I wonder how one of these would look if it was painted. It would probably be a little more subtle that way.
| b00st3d | 08-30-2005 01:41 AM |
is that thing real carbon fiber? it may just be the angle but it looks like that painted carbon fiber stuff...
| typer_126 | 08-30-2005 01:46 AM |
The Chargespeed is genuine carbon fiber. The Ebay piece is not. It's carbon "look", much like the factory carbon interior trim. That alone accounts for the large price difference ;)
| Phy6 | 08-30-2005 01:54 AM |
[QUOTE=supermarkus]What do you guys think of this one?
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
This same seller just put a load of these on eBay, in white abs and "carbon look". FWIW, between the chargespeed and this one, they probably weigh the same. I highly doubt it's solid ABS.
[url]http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkakumeiQ2dmotorsports[/url]
I need a photoshop of this with a roof scoop! :D
BTW the one shown here:
[url]http://forum.scoobywales.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=437[/url]
has 6 fins AND it's carbon fiber. Not sure who makes it though.
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
This same seller just put a load of these on eBay, in white abs and "carbon look". FWIW, between the chargespeed and this one, they probably weigh the same. I highly doubt it's solid ABS.
[url]http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkakumeiQ2dmotorsports[/url]
I need a photoshop of this with a roof scoop! :D
BTW the one shown here:
[url]http://forum.scoobywales.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=437[/url]
has 6 fins AND it's carbon fiber. Not sure who makes it though.
| Phy6 | 08-30-2005 01:58 AM |
Or you could get 7 of these:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NISSAN-MAXIMA-ALTIMA-REAL-CARBON-FIBER-ROOF-SHARK-FIN_W0QQitemZ7995757831QQcategoryZ33639QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
[IMG]http://i17.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/06/fa/b5_1_b.JPG[/IMG]
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NISSAN-MAXIMA-ALTIMA-REAL-CARBON-FIBER-ROOF-SHARK-FIN_W0QQitemZ7995757831QQcategoryZ33639QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
[IMG]http://i17.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/06/fa/b5_1_b.JPG[/IMG]
| typer_126 | 08-30-2005 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE=Phy6]BTW the one shown here:
[url]http://forum.scoobywales.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=437[/url]
has 6 fins AND it's carbon fiber. Not sure who makes it though.[/QUOTE]
Accoring to the text, it's from the FQ400 Evo. ;)
[url]http://forum.scoobywales.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=437[/url]
has 6 fins AND it's carbon fiber. Not sure who makes it though.[/QUOTE]
Accoring to the text, it's from the FQ400 Evo. ;)
| yaggi | 08-31-2005 06:02 PM |
just to let you guys know....I emailed the ebay vendor about the weight of their roof fin and they said it is ABS plastic and is around 600 grams = 1.3lbs. I'm not sure how this compares to the all carbon fiber piece from chargespeed, but it's got to be pretty similar.
| engineerx | 08-31-2005 06:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Phy6]
BTW the one shown here:
[url]http://forum.scoobywales.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=437[/url]
has 6 fins AND it's carbon fiber. Not sure who makes it though.[/QUOTE]
I asked the shop that customized that car for the price on their roof VG [url]http://www.osaka-autodesign.com/[/url]
they said
[QUOTE=Osaka Autodesign]
�450.00 PLUS SHIPPING TO THE USA
kind regards
kash amin
[/QUOTE]
:eek: about $800 !
Nice piece however..... just wish it was cheaper!
BTW the one shown here:
[url]http://forum.scoobywales.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=437[/url]
has 6 fins AND it's carbon fiber. Not sure who makes it though.[/QUOTE]
I asked the shop that customized that car for the price on their roof VG [url]http://www.osaka-autodesign.com/[/url]
they said
[QUOTE=Osaka Autodesign]
�450.00 PLUS SHIPPING TO THE USA
kind regards
kash amin
[/QUOTE]
:eek: about $800 !
Nice piece however..... just wish it was cheaper!
| shogun90 | 09-06-2005 08:22 PM |
Diffuser is here!!!
�
�
I got the Kakumei vortex generator on Friday. It looks like the one pictured below. The fit was ok, could have been a little better. There were no instructions nor mounting tape. I used some 3M tape all along the perimeter and in between each of the fins, just in case. We'll see how it works out. The fins actually seem to have a nice flow to the roof line. It changes the profile of the WRX. I don't know what I think of it yet. It would probably look better with a higher wing (i.e. STI) than my stock WRX one but hey, it's something different. They said it shipped around 8/20 from Taiwan and I received it 9/3, not too bad. I'll post pics when I can. By the way, I also had an STI exhaust installed. Got a great deal from a guy I met at XX Tuning during the Cobb Meet on 8/27.
[QUOTE=supermarkus]What do you guys think of this one?
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=supermarkus]What do you guys think of this one?
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x388-1125195028roof_fin2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://homepage.mac.com/supermarkus/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-05%2020.23.58%20-0700/kakumei_motors-img600x362-1125195061roof_fin1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
| shogun90 | 09-15-2005 09:44 PM |
Installed
�
�
What do you think? Ended up trading for an STI wing, because I think body lines flowed better with the STI than the WRX wing. I guess it's not bad for $200. Fitment was just a little off. Seems like it could have been 1/8 inch wider for a better fit.
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/scooby2091405.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/scooby1091405.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/DSCN0499.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/DSCN0500.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/scooby2091405.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/scooby1091405.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/DSCN0499.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/DSCN0500.jpg[/IMG]
| Phy6 | 09-15-2005 10:46 PM |
From that distance the "CF look" looks good to me! I also have a silver 04, so I'm glad to see it looks good on it. If I did get one, i thought i might have to paint it black or PSM.
| jmanrex | 09-17-2005 07:50 PM |
shogun,
i just recieved mine the other day as well-- i got the black version and i am getting it satin clearcoated first but i was wondering if it sat flush on the front edge when you run the 3m tape across the front--if it doesn't i was thinking of some rubber edge guard or something
i just recieved mine the other day as well-- i got the black version and i am getting it satin clearcoated first but i was wondering if it sat flush on the front edge when you run the 3m tape across the front--if it doesn't i was thinking of some rubber edge guard or something
| shogun90 | 09-17-2005 08:16 PM |
[QUOTE=jmanrex]shogun,
i just recieved mine the other day as well-- i got the black version and i am getting it satin clearcoated first but i was wondering if it sat flush on the front edge when you run the 3m tape across the front--if it doesn't i was thinking of some rubber edge guard or something[/QUOTE]
I put the 3M tape back a little so that the front sits flat.
i just recieved mine the other day as well-- i got the black version and i am getting it satin clearcoated first but i was wondering if it sat flush on the front edge when you run the 3m tape across the front--if it doesn't i was thinking of some rubber edge guard or something[/QUOTE]
I put the 3M tape back a little so that the front sits flat.
| WRblueX_Guy | 09-17-2005 11:59 PM |
Shogun, that looks really good.
I really want to get one, but I don't know if it would look good with my white wingless WRX. I have 20% tint on the rear windows, so the black & white colors would be kind of nice and contrasty. I just don't know how it would look on a wingless Impreza. :(
You guys be the judge....
[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2038000-2038999/2038344_5_full.jpg[/IMG]
I really want to get one, but I don't know if it would look good with my white wingless WRX. I have 20% tint on the rear windows, so the black & white colors would be kind of nice and contrasty. I just don't know how it would look on a wingless Impreza. :(
You guys be the judge....
[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2038000-2038999/2038344_5_full.jpg[/IMG]
| Jonnyfilmboy | 09-18-2005 02:12 AM |
If anyone is interested in knowing what a vortex generator ACTUALLY does, here it is plain and simple:
There's a low pressure area directly behind any large part of the car that blocks the wind. For example, directly behind the cockpit and directly behind the car. Low pressure areas above the car are bad because they cause lift. Low pressure areas behind the car are bad because they cause drag and reduce your fuel ecomony. Anything you do to "spoil" the airflow causing these problems will help reduce these low pressure areas.
If you have a rear element used to spoil that airflow, such as a rear spoiler or wing, this is good for catching some air and increasing the air pressure in that area (helping reduce lift or add downforce). Because there is a large cockpit area on a sedan such as the WRX, the air in this area is pushed up and over the rear of the car. You need to either bring that air back down toward the trunk or you need a wing tall enough to catch the air going over the rear of the car. That's why the STI wing is tall, to catch this air. The regular WRX rear wing is far less effective than the STI stock wing because it is too short to catch the airflow. However, more can be done to make rear wings more effective. That's where vortexes come in.
A vortex generator is an aerodynamic device that does one thing. Causes vortexes. It doesn't diffuse air (like an underbody venturi diffuser), it doesn't contribute to lift or downforce, and it has a very small drag penalty. If you have seen a tornado on TV, you know what a vortex is. And if you have seen an F1 car in humid air, you might have seen little tornados coming off the rear sides of their rear wings. It's tumbling air. The inverted delta wing of a vortex generator causes air behind it to tumble (in a vortex). This does several things. It disturbs the airflow going over the car in a twisting cone shape effectively bringing air above the car closer to the car and bringing air from the sides in closer to the middle of the vortex (depending on the rotation direction of the vortex). This newly incoming air fills in the low pressure area behind the car and causes more air to go over the rear wing. It effectively makes the rear wing "more effective" resulting in higher pressure on the wing and less lift on the rear of the vehicle.
The effectiveness of the rear wing has everything to do with the resulting lowering of lift or increase in downforce. If the rear wing is set neutrally (no lift or downforce), or if you have no rear wing, then the vortex generators will have no effect on downforce. They could possibly increase your gas milage since the area behind your car will be filled in more quickly with air. Other than that, they just sit there disturbing the airflow behind your roof. However, if you have a more agressive rear wing than the STI wing such as the Zerosports or the adjustable S203 wing, then the effect will be much greater. It's the combination of the two, the vortex generator and the agressive rear wing, which leads to rear end downforce.
As a side note, the new winglet on the rear of the new 2006 STI is also trying to make the rear wing more effective by directing air toward it. However, this new element adds it's own surface area and bulk to the airflow increasing drag. On the other hand, it might be more effective than the vortex generators. But I'm not the one in the wind tunnel. Only Subaru and Mitsubishi know for sure.
I hope this helps. A great great source for info on aerodynamics is:
"Downforce without Wings"
Yuping Li
Maria del Carmen Fernandez Visiedo
Hector Vallejo Paz
Luciano Rafael Bello de Aranaga
12-05-2000
Very well written, simple, and it's all about racing with pics and graphics to help understand what they are talking about. I'll see if I can find my copy and upload it.
There's a low pressure area directly behind any large part of the car that blocks the wind. For example, directly behind the cockpit and directly behind the car. Low pressure areas above the car are bad because they cause lift. Low pressure areas behind the car are bad because they cause drag and reduce your fuel ecomony. Anything you do to "spoil" the airflow causing these problems will help reduce these low pressure areas.
If you have a rear element used to spoil that airflow, such as a rear spoiler or wing, this is good for catching some air and increasing the air pressure in that area (helping reduce lift or add downforce). Because there is a large cockpit area on a sedan such as the WRX, the air in this area is pushed up and over the rear of the car. You need to either bring that air back down toward the trunk or you need a wing tall enough to catch the air going over the rear of the car. That's why the STI wing is tall, to catch this air. The regular WRX rear wing is far less effective than the STI stock wing because it is too short to catch the airflow. However, more can be done to make rear wings more effective. That's where vortexes come in.
A vortex generator is an aerodynamic device that does one thing. Causes vortexes. It doesn't diffuse air (like an underbody venturi diffuser), it doesn't contribute to lift or downforce, and it has a very small drag penalty. If you have seen a tornado on TV, you know what a vortex is. And if you have seen an F1 car in humid air, you might have seen little tornados coming off the rear sides of their rear wings. It's tumbling air. The inverted delta wing of a vortex generator causes air behind it to tumble (in a vortex). This does several things. It disturbs the airflow going over the car in a twisting cone shape effectively bringing air above the car closer to the car and bringing air from the sides in closer to the middle of the vortex (depending on the rotation direction of the vortex). This newly incoming air fills in the low pressure area behind the car and causes more air to go over the rear wing. It effectively makes the rear wing "more effective" resulting in higher pressure on the wing and less lift on the rear of the vehicle.
The effectiveness of the rear wing has everything to do with the resulting lowering of lift or increase in downforce. If the rear wing is set neutrally (no lift or downforce), or if you have no rear wing, then the vortex generators will have no effect on downforce. They could possibly increase your gas milage since the area behind your car will be filled in more quickly with air. Other than that, they just sit there disturbing the airflow behind your roof. However, if you have a more agressive rear wing than the STI wing such as the Zerosports or the adjustable S203 wing, then the effect will be much greater. It's the combination of the two, the vortex generator and the agressive rear wing, which leads to rear end downforce.
As a side note, the new winglet on the rear of the new 2006 STI is also trying to make the rear wing more effective by directing air toward it. However, this new element adds it's own surface area and bulk to the airflow increasing drag. On the other hand, it might be more effective than the vortex generators. But I'm not the one in the wind tunnel. Only Subaru and Mitsubishi know for sure.
I hope this helps. A great great source for info on aerodynamics is:
"Downforce without Wings"
Yuping Li
Maria del Carmen Fernandez Visiedo
Hector Vallejo Paz
Luciano Rafael Bello de Aranaga
12-05-2000
Very well written, simple, and it's all about racing with pics and graphics to help understand what they are talking about. I'll see if I can find my copy and upload it.
| STi-MAN | 09-18-2005 01:35 PM |
also you can increase down force of your car my smoothing out the under carriage.
| jmanrex | 09-19-2005 07:55 PM |
thanks for sharing the info jonny
at least now people won't think that it is just rice
at least now people won't think that it is just rice
| el_bobbo | 09-29-2005 10:16 AM |
what grounding kit is that...never seen that before....
[QUOTE=singletrack]Man, I love that wing too.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=singletrack]Man, I love that wing too.[/QUOTE]
| el_bobbo | 09-29-2005 10:20 AM |
any chance i can see that in person? i live in mass, but my gf lives in ko. kinston...i am in RI all the time. might have actually met you when the group of us from MA/RI drove up to the WBSM in NH a few months back....
shoot me an email [email][email�protected][/email]
bobby
[QUOTE=shogun90]What do you think? Ended up trading for an STI wing, because I think body lines flowed better with the STI than the WRX wing. I guess it's not bad for $200. Fitment was just a little off. Seems like it could have been 1/8 inch wider for a better fit.
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/scooby2091405.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/scooby1091405.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/DSCN0499.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/DSCN0500.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
shoot me an email [email][email�protected][/email]
bobby
[QUOTE=shogun90]What do you think? Ended up trading for an STI wing, because I think body lines flowed better with the STI than the WRX wing. I guess it's not bad for $200. Fitment was just a little off. Seems like it could have been 1/8 inch wider for a better fit.
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/scooby2091405.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/scooby1091405.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/DSCN0499.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/shogun90/wrx/DSCN0500.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
| bushflyr | 09-29-2005 02:01 PM |
I don't think, regardless of what Mitsu and the sellers call them, that these qualify as vortex generators. They're really more like stall fences. A vortex generator looks very similar but is placed at an angle to the direction of travel, usually either toed in or alternated toe in, toe out. Since they're little sideways wings they create little sideways wingtip vortecies. Hence the name "vortex generator". These vortecies, since they're already disturbed, are much more amenable to following the coutour of whatever surface they're attached to thus preventing flow separation and stall. (On a wing)
These units are much more like stall fences, which are similar in appearance but lack the AOA. What these do is simply prevent spanwise flow. If the air isn't falling off the end of the wing it's doing it's job, which is creating lift, be it up or down. In the case of these stick on "vortex generators" the fins are just preventing the air from splitting and falling off the side of the car. If the air isn't falling off the side of the car, more smooth air is available for the wing to fly in, increasing downforce.
I think actual vortex generators would probably be more effective than the guide vanes in reducing drag from the low pressure area behind the window, but less effective in the downforce department because the wing would then be flying in turbulent air. If someone has one of those large scale models it would be a facinating project to build a little home wind tunnel and look at the flow pattern.
[size=1]Standard disclaimers apply. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.[/size]
These units are much more like stall fences, which are similar in appearance but lack the AOA. What these do is simply prevent spanwise flow. If the air isn't falling off the end of the wing it's doing it's job, which is creating lift, be it up or down. In the case of these stick on "vortex generators" the fins are just preventing the air from splitting and falling off the side of the car. If the air isn't falling off the side of the car, more smooth air is available for the wing to fly in, increasing downforce.
I think actual vortex generators would probably be more effective than the guide vanes in reducing drag from the low pressure area behind the window, but less effective in the downforce department because the wing would then be flying in turbulent air. If someone has one of those large scale models it would be a facinating project to build a little home wind tunnel and look at the flow pattern.
[size=1]Standard disclaimers apply. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.[/size]
| engineerx | 09-29-2005 05:53 PM |
I'm very skeptical about the ACTUAL benefits that these eBay, or any other JDM or otherwise manufactured VG's without the benefit of CFD modeling. You can't simply slap a triangular shape of arbitrary size on top of a car's roof and call it a proper VG or claim any lift reduction or airfoil downforce efficiency improvement !
There are just too many variables to consider: You need to know each particular car model's boundary layer thickness, so that you can design the optimum VG shape and height! Else you may end up with some nice airbrakes :lol: - well, that's exageration on my part - but they may end up generating more drag instead of creating useful vortices. The whole purpose of the VG's is to maintain the airstream close to the rear of the car thus directing more air to the rear wing, producing more downforce. This also helps reducing lift caused by early airstream separation once air flows past the roof.
Furthermore, not only you need to design the height and shape of the VG's but you also need to determine where is the best place to locate them! Do you place them all the way to the rear of the roof? Or do you determine where the flow separation occurs in the roof and place them slightly ahead? The location alone with respect to flow separation will determine whether the VG's are just Bling or actually functional !
Those eBay VG's seem to be a little large than 30mm. That's just my guess from the pictures.
Anyone interested in learning more, read this excellent technical paper from Mitsubishi :
[url]http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/pdf/2004/16E_03.pdf[/url]
That said....
I liked the look the VG's add to the profile of the WRX's - I liked them when I first saw them in the EVO MR's - and the fact that they're functional adds to my liking.
The induced drag shouldn't be all that much that you will see some crazy fuel efficiency decreases. But if you do - let us know!
I will most likely buy the ChargeSpeed carbon fiber piece, the VG's are smaller in height and even if they were not wind-tunnel or CFD designed, I just like the way they look on the car!
There are just too many variables to consider: You need to know each particular car model's boundary layer thickness, so that you can design the optimum VG shape and height! Else you may end up with some nice airbrakes :lol: - well, that's exageration on my part - but they may end up generating more drag instead of creating useful vortices. The whole purpose of the VG's is to maintain the airstream close to the rear of the car thus directing more air to the rear wing, producing more downforce. This also helps reducing lift caused by early airstream separation once air flows past the roof.
Furthermore, not only you need to design the height and shape of the VG's but you also need to determine where is the best place to locate them! Do you place them all the way to the rear of the roof? Or do you determine where the flow separation occurs in the roof and place them slightly ahead? The location alone with respect to flow separation will determine whether the VG's are just Bling or actually functional !
Those eBay VG's seem to be a little large than 30mm. That's just my guess from the pictures.
Anyone interested in learning more, read this excellent technical paper from Mitsubishi :
[url]http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/pdf/2004/16E_03.pdf[/url]
That said....
I liked the look the VG's add to the profile of the WRX's - I liked them when I first saw them in the EVO MR's - and the fact that they're functional adds to my liking.
The induced drag shouldn't be all that much that you will see some crazy fuel efficiency decreases. But if you do - let us know!
I will most likely buy the ChargeSpeed carbon fiber piece, the VG's are smaller in height and even if they were not wind-tunnel or CFD designed, I just like the way they look on the car!
| jmanrex | 09-29-2005 07:57 PM |
i think it would be nice if you guys would research your ideas before posting like jonnyfilmboy did above==both of you have some misinformation in your statements about how a vortex generator--anyone can find information about something just make sure you copy it correctly
bushflyr(i think you should have stayed at the holiday inn) you claim that the ebay ones are stick on fences how do you think the chargespeed version and the evolution version attach to the car
and
engineerx you claim that you can't just make a version without windtest and claim that they are just bling versions which maybe true but then you say you will buy one because of that fact
bottom line with the vortex generators is to reduce the lift in rear of the car by reducing the air pressure==whether or not the ebay or chargespeed versions do that --who cares because 90% of the people who buy them do not take their car to the track every weekend to find out
don't hate on product that is made very well and is a cheaper(moneywise) than another--i can't wait till it warms up so i can put mine on(i got the black version)
EBAY VERSION ROCKS
bushflyr(i think you should have stayed at the holiday inn) you claim that the ebay ones are stick on fences how do you think the chargespeed version and the evolution version attach to the car
and
engineerx you claim that you can't just make a version without windtest and claim that they are just bling versions which maybe true but then you say you will buy one because of that fact
bottom line with the vortex generators is to reduce the lift in rear of the car by reducing the air pressure==whether or not the ebay or chargespeed versions do that --who cares because 90% of the people who buy them do not take their car to the track every weekend to find out
don't hate on product that is made very well and is a cheaper(moneywise) than another--i can't wait till it warms up so i can put mine on(i got the black version)
EBAY VERSION ROCKS
| engineerx | 09-29-2005 10:44 PM |
[QUOTE=jmanrex]
engineerx you claim that you can't just make a version without windtest and claim that they are just bling versions which maybe true but then you say you will buy one because of that fact
[/QUOTE]
:lol:
exactly !
I doubt these have been actually designed and proven to keep the airflow from separating off the roof line. If they do generate nice vortices and keep the airflow stuck to the rear glass for longer distance, then awesome and I bet it was coincidental.
Yep- I will buy one just because I like the way it looks and keeping in mind that it may or may not actually do what the makers of these pieces say... unless they show me some CFD modeling data.... I'm skeptical that way :D
and yes - I've read about this subject.
and No I don't claim - I know!
when you build things there's is a very important step: design, that's where you use the applied sciences to come up with an efficient design.
engineerx you claim that you can't just make a version without windtest and claim that they are just bling versions which maybe true but then you say you will buy one because of that fact
[/QUOTE]
:lol:
exactly !
I doubt these have been actually designed and proven to keep the airflow from separating off the roof line. If they do generate nice vortices and keep the airflow stuck to the rear glass for longer distance, then awesome and I bet it was coincidental.
Yep- I will buy one just because I like the way it looks and keeping in mind that it may or may not actually do what the makers of these pieces say... unless they show me some CFD modeling data.... I'm skeptical that way :D
and yes - I've read about this subject.
and No I don't claim - I know!
when you build things there's is a very important step: design, that's where you use the applied sciences to come up with an efficient design.
| bushflyr | 09-30-2005 03:23 AM |
[QUOTE=jmanrex]bushflyr(i think you should have stayed at the holiday inn) you claim that the ebay ones are stick on fences how do you think the chargespeed version and the evolution version attach to the car
....
don't hate on product that is made very well and is a cheaper(moneywise) than another--i can't wait till it warms up so i can put mine on(i got the black version)
EBAY VERSION ROCKS[/QUOTE]
I wasn't making any comment on the attachment method. I'm all about duct tape. :D The "stick on" comment was merely descriptive.
Vortex generator = AOA
Stall fence = no AOA
I do think they look cool though.
....
don't hate on product that is made very well and is a cheaper(moneywise) than another--i can't wait till it warms up so i can put mine on(i got the black version)
EBAY VERSION ROCKS[/QUOTE]
I wasn't making any comment on the attachment method. I'm all about duct tape. :D The "stick on" comment was merely descriptive.
Vortex generator = AOA
Stall fence = no AOA
I do think they look cool though.
| Fizz Autosports | 10-12-2005 06:33 PM |
Charge Speed
�
�
Charge Speed Carbon Fiber Roof Wing(Vortex Generator),
Front Lips Type1/2, and brake ducts.
We should have by next week.
Give us a call or email me
Tel(718)631-4001
[email][email�protected][/email]
[url]www.fizzautosports.com[/url]
Front Lips Type1/2, and brake ducts.
We should have by next week.
Give us a call or email me
Tel(718)631-4001
[email][email�protected][/email]
[url]www.fizzautosports.com[/url]
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