| PDXTuning | 12-05-2005 05:44 AM |
Congratulations to all involved!
A tremendous amount of effort went into this car, enough so that it is hard to hear it called a hastily sorted car. Marshal from ART should be singled out as the one person who made sure that project happened.
We knew the car was going to be fast when it put down 450+whp on the Gruppe-S dyno, but this is better than we dared to dream.
Conratulations to ART, TC Design and ESX, it was a pleasure to be involved.
PDXTuning
A tremendous amount of effort went into this car, enough so that it is hard to hear it called a hastily sorted car. Marshal from ART should be singled out as the one person who made sure that project happened.
We knew the car was going to be fast when it put down 450+whp on the Gruppe-S dyno, but this is better than we dared to dream.
Conratulations to ART, TC Design and ESX, it was a pleasure to be involved.
PDXTuning
| mnavarro | 12-05-2005 11:38 AM |
[QUOTE=PDXTuning]Congratulations to all involved!
A tremendous amount of effort went into this car, enough so that it is hard to hear it called a hastily sorted car. Marshal from ART should be singled out as the one person who made sure that project happened.
We knew the car was going to be fast when it put down 450+whp on the Gruppe-S dyno, but this is better than we dared to dream.
Conratulations to ART, TC Design and ESX, it was a pleasure to be involved.
PDXTuning[/QUOTE]
Speed wasn't the primary concern as longevity of the engine. The car ran at 9psi the whole race. The car suffered very few issues as I understand, a fan failed and replaced a washer to fix a leaky power steering fluid line. I was there when I overheard the discussion if they could push the car towards the end and the decision was to keep the car going at it's rate, they were so many laps down and it wasn't worth the risk.
It was clear that car wasn't completely dialed in, but it still performed very well do to all the hardwork from the professionals associated with this effort.
A tremendous amount of effort went into this car, enough so that it is hard to hear it called a hastily sorted car. Marshal from ART should be singled out as the one person who made sure that project happened.
We knew the car was going to be fast when it put down 450+whp on the Gruppe-S dyno, but this is better than we dared to dream.
Conratulations to ART, TC Design and ESX, it was a pleasure to be involved.
PDXTuning[/QUOTE]
Speed wasn't the primary concern as longevity of the engine. The car ran at 9psi the whole race. The car suffered very few issues as I understand, a fan failed and replaced a washer to fix a leaky power steering fluid line. I was there when I overheard the discussion if they could push the car towards the end and the decision was to keep the car going at it's rate, they were so many laps down and it wasn't worth the risk.
It was clear that car wasn't completely dialed in, but it still performed very well do to all the hardwork from the professionals associated with this effort.
| GarySheehan | 12-05-2005 03:34 PM |
Hey everyone,
I'm still tired and a little sore. The race was amazing. To finish in 3rd place overall in an STi, which was the car's first race, just blows my mind. In addition, we were only 6 laps behind the leader and 2 laps behind second place. It was a very close race!
We qualified the car at a 1:58.7, which translates to a 106mph lap.
I did a 1 1/2 hour stint at the start of the race, a 1 1/2 hour stint at 2:30am and a 4 hour stint for the end of the race. The car was consistent and fast the entire time.
What a blast!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
I'm still tired and a little sore. The race was amazing. To finish in 3rd place overall in an STi, which was the car's first race, just blows my mind. In addition, we were only 6 laps behind the leader and 2 laps behind second place. It was a very close race!
We qualified the car at a 1:58.7, which translates to a 106mph lap.
I did a 1 1/2 hour stint at the start of the race, a 1 1/2 hour stint at 2:30am and a 4 hour stint for the end of the race. The car was consistent and fast the entire time.
What a blast!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| MPME | 12-05-2005 04:21 PM |
I don't know how many of you have met Gary Sheehan or worked with him, but any that have him in their presence or in their car are in for a suprise.
I had a bunch of pro's on my team--those that have won ALMS prototype races, touring car specialists, formula car champions, young formula car guns;Gary was the only one I entrusted to qualifying the car, starting the race (when a lot of stupid moves are made by others), driving it in the most precarious early am time slot (when all teams/drivers start to suffer brain/sleep fade), and to bring the car home for the last 4 hours at speed, but while saving the tires/brakes/gearbox/etc.
Pure class, the first guy to jump in and get his hands dirty, spent countless late nights (into the early morning forsaking his beautiful wife and 8mo. old daughter) helping us to prepare the car (along with his USTCC super chief mechanic Joel Gat), a favorite of the crew, always giving you a hard time, and brilliantly fast.
Whatever I do with the ART/ESX Subaru STi road race car in the future will have Gary in it. Period.
I had a bunch of pro's on my team--those that have won ALMS prototype races, touring car specialists, formula car champions, young formula car guns;Gary was the only one I entrusted to qualifying the car, starting the race (when a lot of stupid moves are made by others), driving it in the most precarious early am time slot (when all teams/drivers start to suffer brain/sleep fade), and to bring the car home for the last 4 hours at speed, but while saving the tires/brakes/gearbox/etc.
Pure class, the first guy to jump in and get his hands dirty, spent countless late nights (into the early morning forsaking his beautiful wife and 8mo. old daughter) helping us to prepare the car (along with his USTCC super chief mechanic Joel Gat), a favorite of the crew, always giving you a hard time, and brilliantly fast.
Whatever I do with the ART/ESX Subaru STi road race car in the future will have Gary in it. Period.
| Rally_wgn | 12-05-2005 04:31 PM |
^^^Agreed! I met Joel and Gary at Summit Point and they were very gracious and alot of fun. Even managed to wedge my 6 foot 230 lb frame into Gary's car. Thanks for the opportunity Gary and hope to see you racing more soon.
Oh and congrats on the little girl!
Oh and congrats on the little girl!
| BriDrive | 12-05-2005 05:18 PM |
Congrats! to G Sheehan et al...
Wish I could've been there.
BriDrive
Wish I could've been there.
BriDrive
| Arnie | 12-05-2005 05:23 PM |
Great work you guys!
So what do you guys think is the deciding difference between your STi and the first two placed cars? Power? Chassis Setup? Aero?
So what do you guys think is the deciding difference between your STi and the first two placed cars? Power? Chassis Setup? Aero?
| pio!pio! | 12-05-2005 05:42 PM |
so what will it take to make that motor survive full boost for 25 hours?
| MPME | 12-05-2005 06:16 PM |
Tires, to be honest (but I don't mean that in a bad way.) I still have a solid 5 days of engineering to do--we had one day at Thill in the rain on 11/07, and one day in cold/light drizze at Sears Point. The Sears test was the first on our Toyo Tires, and perfecting the chassis to them just requires time.
The other main element is that I believe we were the first place finisher amongst DOT R-compond street tires--the winning Porsche was on slicks, as was the 2nd place BMW. The final component is tire width--with the monster Ohlins Prodive Tarmac dampers (3" spring ID), the clearance between the wheel/tire/shocks is VERY tight. Camber plates will help, but a bit of custom machining on the plates is required to run them with Ohlins--I ran out of time to pull this off. The Ohlins, while the best damper made for motorsports (they aren't paying me, I've worked with all the major brands and found this as my own answer), they require a lot of spcail tools to work with--also not in my immediate budget. So taking them apart to do the work with the plates was logistically impossible. You can adjust camber on the shocks through their eccentric shims, but risk grinding the shock against the wheels if you run too much negative camper--this is where the plates would mitigate the problem.
with that done, I could run something wider than the 225.40/18's. On 265's or so, she'd be much faster. On the 225's, we're VERY under-tired. No slicks and relatively narrow tires were the big differece. Power tuned by PDX wasn't a problem--we had maps in the AVC-R providing anything from 271-456whp for the event, brakes from StopTech were perfect, etc. I love the toyos--the teams I run in World Challenge are much faster with them that the other tires they used to have in the series. For next year, I'll have widened the fenders, installed the camper plates, and found wider wheels to compliment the car. 1st place in the 25hr (and whatever else we decide to run the car in) shouldn't be too much of a stretch.
The other main element is that I believe we were the first place finisher amongst DOT R-compond street tires--the winning Porsche was on slicks, as was the 2nd place BMW. The final component is tire width--with the monster Ohlins Prodive Tarmac dampers (3" spring ID), the clearance between the wheel/tire/shocks is VERY tight. Camber plates will help, but a bit of custom machining on the plates is required to run them with Ohlins--I ran out of time to pull this off. The Ohlins, while the best damper made for motorsports (they aren't paying me, I've worked with all the major brands and found this as my own answer), they require a lot of spcail tools to work with--also not in my immediate budget. So taking them apart to do the work with the plates was logistically impossible. You can adjust camber on the shocks through their eccentric shims, but risk grinding the shock against the wheels if you run too much negative camper--this is where the plates would mitigate the problem.
with that done, I could run something wider than the 225.40/18's. On 265's or so, she'd be much faster. On the 225's, we're VERY under-tired. No slicks and relatively narrow tires were the big differece. Power tuned by PDX wasn't a problem--we had maps in the AVC-R providing anything from 271-456whp for the event, brakes from StopTech were perfect, etc. I love the toyos--the teams I run in World Challenge are much faster with them that the other tires they used to have in the series. For next year, I'll have widened the fenders, installed the camper plates, and found wider wheels to compliment the car. 1st place in the 25hr (and whatever else we decide to run the car in) shouldn't be too much of a stretch.
| MARKGSTI | 12-05-2005 06:30 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME] For next year, I'll have widened the fenders, installed the camper plates, and found wider wheels to compliment the car. 1st place in the 25hr (and whatever else we decide to run the car in) shouldn't be too much of a stretch.[/QUOTE]
The bad finish last year by the C&D/Vishnu car had a effect on the Subaru/EVO interest on this race....this likewise will have an effect..this time it will be a good one.
The bad finish last year by the C&D/Vishnu car had a effect on the Subaru/EVO interest on this race....this likewise will have an effect..this time it will be a good one.
| psg | 12-05-2005 06:31 PM |
Congrats on the great finish to Marshall, Gary, Jamie, the team, and everyone else involved in the preparation of the car. I'm sure you guys will get a nice write-up in the March issue of C&D. :)
| MPME | 12-05-2005 06:44 PM |
Thanks so much--seems like there was a major poo-storm only 2 months ago about how much the car/shop/team/etc sucked... ;-)
Amazing what positivity and good people can bring about--from Joel to Jamie from ESX, I had some brilliant minds and hands at my disposal. Makes freezing at driver Dave McEntee's Sears Point karting shop at 3am night after night (using portable lights to see) worth while.
Amazing what positivity and good people can bring about--from Joel to Jamie from ESX, I had some brilliant minds and hands at my disposal. Makes freezing at driver Dave McEntee's Sears Point karting shop at 3am night after night (using portable lights to see) worth while.
| Arnie | 12-05-2005 06:51 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]Tires, to be honest (but I don't mean that in a bad way.) I still have a solid 5 days of engineering to do--we had one day at Thill in the rain on 11/07, and one day in cold/light drizze at Sears Point. The Sears test was the first on our Toyo Tires, and perfecting the chassis to them just requires time.
The other main element is that I believe we were the first place finisher amongst DOT R-compond street tires--the winning Porsche was on slicks, as was the 2nd place BMW. The final component is tire width--with the monster Ohlins Prodive Tarmac dampers (3" spring ID), the clearance between the wheel/tire/shocks is VERY tight. Camber plates will help, but a bit of custom machining on the plates is required to run them with Ohlins--I ran out of time to pull this off. The Ohlins, while the best damper made for motorsports (they aren't paying me, I've worked with all the major brands and found this as my own answer), they require a lot of spcail tools to work with--also not in my immediate budget. So taking them apart to do the work with the plates was logistically impossible. You can adjust camber on the shocks through their eccentric shims, but risk grinding the shock against the wheels if you run too much negative camper--this is where the plates would mitigate the problem.
with that done, I could run something wider than the 225.40/18's. On 265's or so, she'd be much faster. On the 225's, we're VERY under-tired. No slicks and relatively narrow tires were the big differece. Power tuned by PDX wasn't a problem--we had maps in the AVC-R providing anything from 271-456whp for the event, brakes from StopTech were perfect, etc. I love the toyos--the teams I run in World Challenge are much faster with them that the other tires they used to have in the series. For next year, I'll have widened the fenders, installed the camper plates, and found wider wheels to compliment the car. 1st place in the 25hr (and whatever else we decide to run the car in) shouldn't be too much of a stretch.[/QUOTE]
thanks for the input! were you required by sponsors, etc. to run the toyos as opposed to full slicks? Or other restrictions? Wouldn't slicks at this narrower size be a sizeable advantage over a street compound?
The other main element is that I believe we were the first place finisher amongst DOT R-compond street tires--the winning Porsche was on slicks, as was the 2nd place BMW. The final component is tire width--with the monster Ohlins Prodive Tarmac dampers (3" spring ID), the clearance between the wheel/tire/shocks is VERY tight. Camber plates will help, but a bit of custom machining on the plates is required to run them with Ohlins--I ran out of time to pull this off. The Ohlins, while the best damper made for motorsports (they aren't paying me, I've worked with all the major brands and found this as my own answer), they require a lot of spcail tools to work with--also not in my immediate budget. So taking them apart to do the work with the plates was logistically impossible. You can adjust camber on the shocks through their eccentric shims, but risk grinding the shock against the wheels if you run too much negative camper--this is where the plates would mitigate the problem.
with that done, I could run something wider than the 225.40/18's. On 265's or so, she'd be much faster. On the 225's, we're VERY under-tired. No slicks and relatively narrow tires were the big differece. Power tuned by PDX wasn't a problem--we had maps in the AVC-R providing anything from 271-456whp for the event, brakes from StopTech were perfect, etc. I love the toyos--the teams I run in World Challenge are much faster with them that the other tires they used to have in the series. For next year, I'll have widened the fenders, installed the camper plates, and found wider wheels to compliment the car. 1st place in the 25hr (and whatever else we decide to run the car in) shouldn't be too much of a stretch.[/QUOTE]
thanks for the input! were you required by sponsors, etc. to run the toyos as opposed to full slicks? Or other restrictions? Wouldn't slicks at this narrower size be a sizeable advantage over a street compound?
| MPME | 12-05-2005 06:59 PM |
All about the $. The Toyos rock--seriously. The car was built to the World Challenge GT rules, and these are the spec tire. I still have the work mentioned to fit wider wheels/tires. On slicks, I'm afraid such narrow tires would wear faster--they have more weight to carry and thus heat up faster/wear faster. Kinda like a fat guy riding a bike with a skinny tire...
| Arnie | 12-05-2005 07:00 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]Thanks so much--seems like there was a major poo-storm only 2 months ago about how much the car/shop/team/etc sucked... ;-)
[/QUOTE]
don't worry, we still think you suck! ;) :p :banana:
[/QUOTE]
don't worry, we still think you suck! ;) :p :banana:
| Arnie | 12-05-2005 07:02 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]All about the $. The Toyos rock--seriously. The car was built to the World Challenge GT rules, and these are the spec tire. I still have the work mentioned to fit wider wheels/tires. On slicks, I'm afraid such narrow tires would wear faster--they have more weight to carry and thus heat up faster/wear faster. Kinda like a fat guy riding a bike with a skinny tire...[/QUOTE]
So how do you think this car would stack up against the other World Challenge cars if it were to run in this series?
Actually, how much negative camber were you guys running F/R? I saw that pic of the corded tire, was that just wear or wacked out alignment?
So how do you think this car would stack up against the other World Challenge cars if it were to run in this series?
Actually, how much negative camber were you guys running F/R? I saw that pic of the corded tire, was that just wear or wacked out alignment?
| psg | 12-05-2005 07:11 PM |
So, any hi-resolution pictures available for wallpapers? :)
| mnavarro | 12-05-2005 07:14 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]All about the $. The Toyos rock--seriously. The car was built to the World Challenge GT rules, and these are the spec tire. I still have the work mentioned to fit wider wheels/tires. On slicks, I'm afraid such narrow tires would wear faster--they have more weight to carry and thus heat up faster/wear faster. Kinda like a fat guy riding a bike with a skinny tire...[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the wear and tear on the wheel bearings. A few guys who where running slicks had issues with bearings.
Not to mention the wear and tear on the wheel bearings. A few guys who where running slicks had issues with bearings.
| Arnie | 12-05-2005 07:22 PM |
[QUOTE=mnavarro]Not to mention the wear and tear on the wheel bearings. A few guys who where running slicks had issues with bearings.[/QUOTE]
I guess that's the difference in running a production based vehicle and a true race car. I think the Spec C that they ran at the 24h of the N�rburgring had to do a bearing swap, though not sure which one.
I guess that's the difference in running a production based vehicle and a true race car. I think the Spec C that they ran at the 24h of the N�rburgring had to do a bearing swap, though not sure which one.
| MattGC8 | 12-05-2005 07:40 PM |
Big congrats on the finish to the entire team and special kudos to Gary. The last time I watched him race was in that Grand-Am Audi. No need to open that old wound(I still think you were robbed! :furious: ), yet I'm so glad everything went damn near flawless! Like others, I'm still holding out for a WCGT Sti. Will it be possible? After watching Irish Mike having every ounce of bad luck all season long, I'm still holding out to see a boxer house a pushrod at my home away from home...Limerock. A Dream Come True! Please.....
| makofoto | 12-05-2005 08:00 PM |
2 front bearing changes at the 24hrs @ the Ring
| MPME | 12-05-2005 08:09 PM |
"don't worry, we still think you suck!"
Some things never change...:p
In all seriousness, ESX/Ali/Jamie were instrumental in the car/event happening--while there were a lot of other equally important contributors, this *3rd place in the longest endurance race in the world in the car's racing debut STi* is the same car from the C/D Challenge. Props to Ali/Jamie and Subaru.
Some things never change...:p
In all seriousness, ESX/Ali/Jamie were instrumental in the car/event happening--while there were a lot of other equally important contributors, this *3rd place in the longest endurance race in the world in the car's racing debut STi* is the same car from the C/D Challenge. Props to Ali/Jamie and Subaru.
| MPME | 12-05-2005 08:12 PM |
[QUOTE=Arnie]So how do you think this car would stack up against the other World Challenge cars if it were to run in this series?
Actually, how much negative camber were you guys running F/R? I saw that pic of the corded tire, was that just wear or wacked out alignment?[/QUOTE]
We had a hole/cut in the sidewall--big enough to fit a sharpie through--Joel Gat found it--the car did a few laps on that flat tire--our driver at the time was too new to feel the pressure lowering. Never had another problem like it the rest of the way.
Actually, how much negative camber were you guys running F/R? I saw that pic of the corded tire, was that just wear or wacked out alignment?[/QUOTE]
We had a hole/cut in the sidewall--big enough to fit a sharpie through--Joel Gat found it--the car did a few laps on that flat tire--our driver at the time was too new to feel the pressure lowering. Never had another problem like it the rest of the way.
| Evil STI | 12-05-2005 08:19 PM |
What car(s) was your toughest competition during the event?
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-05-2005 08:25 PM |
Hello,
Wow... 6 hours or so of sleep in total from Wednesday morning to Sunday 4pm (when we finally finished packing up after the event) really, really sucks! It took me almost 8 hours to drive home, 150 miles away. I even ended up pulling off in Berkeley, looking for a reasonably well lit (ie, safe) area, and sleeping with only 5 miles to go before getting home. :p
But it was so worth it! From Saturday 11-am to Sunday 12-noon, I was on an adrenaline/caffeine high. At the pit wall, we had a great crew. People who knew they weren't immediately needed often went into motor homes to catch an hour of sleep or so (fuel stops happened every 1.5 hours, so most of the crew was at the wall every hour and a half). Marshall had an air horn that he LOVED to blast to get the whole crew assembled if a pit stop was imminent. I think he reveled in the idea of blasting the horn when someone, already at the pit wall, wasn't paying attention to him. 120 db of blasting noise is able to get people to jump out of their skin and through the canopy top!
Some of us, though, were needed at a moment's notice. Marshall sat, often wrapped head to toe in blankets, with a headset on his head, for all but a few minutes of the race, right at the wall (even when he dozed off!). I think the only time he was away from the wall was bathroom breaks.
Jaime (from Easy Street), Tony and Joe (from TC Design), and I made up the rest of our constantly-at-the-wall team. Joe has an amazing ability to close his eyes and fall asleep. He fell asleep a dozen times, probably never longer than 10 minutes, some lasting only a minute. Tony actually left the wall for two half hour sleeps, curled around spare parts, in the middle of the car-strap-down area of the smaller ESX trailer. Who would have thunk a solid, cold floor would look so inviting? I guess shelter from the 30 degree wind was nice?
I think I actually saw Jaime fill our fueling rig (we would pass 5-gallon containers up a ladder to the top guy who would pour them into the fuelling rig), close the top latch, and then fall asleep at the top of the ladder, face / nose touching the fuel latch. Nothing a little coffee couldn't cure!
I tried to sleep a couple times. I drifted off to never never land and within a minute or two, I could hear voices calling out "Joel! We need you to get up! Joel! Wake up!" I jumped out of my seat, heart pounding at 180 bpm, hands clawing at my face to remove my beanie which I had stretched over my eyes to make sleep easier. When the world came back into focus and my contact lenses cleared, I could see that everyone around me was asleep, too, except Navid, who was dutifully telling the then-current driver what his lap times were, every lap, and responding to any questions or concerns the driver had. Even my "dreams" we 100% alert pit stops. :p That happened once or twice. I think I got about 15 minutes total. I even forgot to go to the bathroom! I would talk tire or brakes strategy, then talk other shop related things, then do a pit stop, then remember I wanted to go to the bathroom, then talk more tire and brake wear and rotation thoughts, and then next thing I new it was the next pit stop.
I think Tony had to make the executive decision to order me to go after I forgot to go 2-3 pitstops in a row. He said "wait until the car passes by again and you know you'll have two minutes.... GO!" :)
Of course, since we expected them to be at 100% full alert status during their stints, some drivers drove to a near by hotel and got real sleep, even. Gary mentioned a 4 hour sleep stint with a shower... At that point, I stank so bad and had so much brake dust on my face, that I so so so wanted to hug him to punish him for the luxurious life style he was living!
I know all the previous and all the future posts will do a great job of thanking the crew or the drivers or the team manager (Marshall), so I really want to thank two members of the crew in particular. Tony and Jamie. Before the race, Tony was instrumental to setting up the car. He knew how to interpret the comments the drivers made and really understand what was going on. I've always had the problem of believing what the driver says. If the driver says the car was getting upset when it hit a berm, I would work on the suspension reaction to the berm (adjusting high speed compression or whatever needs to be done). Tony, however, has long ago figured out that drivers don't always know what they're talking about. He asked the right questions and really worked with the drivers. Then he would make changes that surprised me. Car isn't working right at the berms? Adjust low speed compression damping. Why? From the driver's description of the actual problem event, Tony realized it was not the reaction to the berm, but the time it was taking for the chassis to settle in AFTER the berm...
At the race, Tony did a great job with overall mechanical management. He was very good at reading tires, brakes, suspension, etc., and was very good at deciding what needed to be done during each pit stop, making contingency-trees - if we see A, then do B, but if we see C, then do D. We had too few tires for this race but with Tony's careful tire management decisions (rotate front right to rear left, pull in this old rear right, etc), we were able to save an entire set of shaved tires for Gary's final 4 hour stint to keep and hold 3rd while having enough go-power and traction in reserve to fend off any encroaching competitors.
Jamie, from Easy Street, was totally not who I expected. We all know the reputation the ESX name carries outside the drag racing world. I had my own bias and the super tuner shootout certainly didn't help my opinion of ESX, despite my knowing who else was involved in the project. The first time I met Jamie was during the build phase. I only came into this project a couple weeks before the event, and the first time Jamie saw the car was about the same weekend. He was quite resourceful and was able to fabricate and fix things very efficiently. I thought "he's a damn good mechanic and fabricator."
But Jamie was a real champ at the pit wall. He came to us knowing nothing about road racing. He knew Subarus very well, and Subaru engines and drivelines, like no one else. It was almost fun to ask him the most trivial questions - how far is it from the centerline of the wrist pin to the first oil ring on a USDM STi motor? And on a 1997 JDM STi motor?
But Jamie has a great crew presence. The entire crew worked well with him. As he became more comfortable in the road racing environment (from a crew / mechanical standpoint, is any form of racing really that different? Something needs to get done, someone needs to figure out how to do it, and people need to implement it), he became more comfortable directing the crew, despite the crew's more intimate familiarity with road racing.
Jamie helped his reputation with the crew with creative solutions, that's certainly true. We had a fueling rig with no way to hold it up in the air to shoot the fuel into the car quickly. The fueling rig didn't come with legs! We had some legs brought in, but the legs had an OD of 2" and the fueling rig leg-holders had an ID of 2.5". I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to be standing beneath 150 gallons (1000 pounds) of fuel that was standing on rickety, mismatched legs!
Between Jamie and me, we found some old fence posts at the track, tracked down the appropriate track officials, and had 2.5" OD fence posts cut to 7 foot lengths. Then we found a thicker gate post (ie, a gate in that same fence had 3" OD posts that it swung on) that coincidentally had a 2.5" ID. Jamie ground some of the galvanizing / mud / etc., off the posts while I got the big 3" OD post sliced (we didn't have a cut-off wheel). Jamie finished the job by welding the big gate rings onto the fence posts and for $40, we had 4 legs that were strong enough to keep a car from crossing a fence, and strong enough to hold 1000 pounds of fuel 7 feet into the air!
By the end of the weekend, Jamie was in full crew management form. We (the rest of us) had pretty much given up on the idea of a pit stop that included a driver change, swapping all four tires for new tires, adding oil, adjusting the gas pedal stop (if you get over 100% throttle position, the STi limps you home, and some of our drivers overenthusiastically used the gas pedal :p), swapping radios, taping down the hood and adjusting the hood pins (because of damage from a front end tap), and adding some 25-30 gallons of gas, without losing at least 4 laps to the competition. That would put us within striking distance of the 4th place Porsche team... We had to get Gary into the final driver's seat and rely on him beating the crap out of the car to keep ahead of the Porsche.
Jamie said he'd be right back. He came back a couple minutes later with an extra floor jack (we had three, now we had 4) and an extra 18-volt Snap-on impact gun (we now had 4 18-volts instead of 3 18-volts and two 14.4-volts).
Jamie pulled together the entire pit crew and several drivers who were done with their driving stints. The whole lot of us listened in. The plan was to jump the wall and get the fuel into the car. While that happens, the only other work allowed by NASA is a driver's change and cleaning the windshield. As soon as the fuel was done going into the car, the fuel man was to shout to Jamie. The 4 jack people would have already gotten the jacks into position and would get the car into the air at all 4 corners. The wheels would get swapped, the brakes checked (visually), the oil added, the hood taped down, and the gas pedal stop fixed, after which, Jamie would instruct one side down, then the other, then clear the car, and tell the driver to go.
16 people over the wall (4 jack, 4 tire (including Tony and I, so we could do brake pad inspections at the same time), 2 fuel (fueller and fire extinguisher guy - both in head-to-toe nomex with helmets), 2 driver change assistants, 2 drivers, Marshall, and Navid (managers)) and the entire list of tasks took 3 minutes 43 seconds. We pushed the car to get it rolling while Gary started driving and out the pits he went. I think he had a bit of adrenaline in his system from our massive pit effort, so Marshall quickly reminded Gary on the radio that the pit limit was 25 mph.
What an awesome event and what an incredible time!
I went to sleep around 2 am and woke up at 3 pm today. I dunno how the rest of the crew was planning on working today...
Joel, happy and yet still tired... (err, and celebrating with some beer :))
Wow... 6 hours or so of sleep in total from Wednesday morning to Sunday 4pm (when we finally finished packing up after the event) really, really sucks! It took me almost 8 hours to drive home, 150 miles away. I even ended up pulling off in Berkeley, looking for a reasonably well lit (ie, safe) area, and sleeping with only 5 miles to go before getting home. :p
But it was so worth it! From Saturday 11-am to Sunday 12-noon, I was on an adrenaline/caffeine high. At the pit wall, we had a great crew. People who knew they weren't immediately needed often went into motor homes to catch an hour of sleep or so (fuel stops happened every 1.5 hours, so most of the crew was at the wall every hour and a half). Marshall had an air horn that he LOVED to blast to get the whole crew assembled if a pit stop was imminent. I think he reveled in the idea of blasting the horn when someone, already at the pit wall, wasn't paying attention to him. 120 db of blasting noise is able to get people to jump out of their skin and through the canopy top!
Some of us, though, were needed at a moment's notice. Marshall sat, often wrapped head to toe in blankets, with a headset on his head, for all but a few minutes of the race, right at the wall (even when he dozed off!). I think the only time he was away from the wall was bathroom breaks.
Jaime (from Easy Street), Tony and Joe (from TC Design), and I made up the rest of our constantly-at-the-wall team. Joe has an amazing ability to close his eyes and fall asleep. He fell asleep a dozen times, probably never longer than 10 minutes, some lasting only a minute. Tony actually left the wall for two half hour sleeps, curled around spare parts, in the middle of the car-strap-down area of the smaller ESX trailer. Who would have thunk a solid, cold floor would look so inviting? I guess shelter from the 30 degree wind was nice?
I think I actually saw Jaime fill our fueling rig (we would pass 5-gallon containers up a ladder to the top guy who would pour them into the fuelling rig), close the top latch, and then fall asleep at the top of the ladder, face / nose touching the fuel latch. Nothing a little coffee couldn't cure!
I tried to sleep a couple times. I drifted off to never never land and within a minute or two, I could hear voices calling out "Joel! We need you to get up! Joel! Wake up!" I jumped out of my seat, heart pounding at 180 bpm, hands clawing at my face to remove my beanie which I had stretched over my eyes to make sleep easier. When the world came back into focus and my contact lenses cleared, I could see that everyone around me was asleep, too, except Navid, who was dutifully telling the then-current driver what his lap times were, every lap, and responding to any questions or concerns the driver had. Even my "dreams" we 100% alert pit stops. :p That happened once or twice. I think I got about 15 minutes total. I even forgot to go to the bathroom! I would talk tire or brakes strategy, then talk other shop related things, then do a pit stop, then remember I wanted to go to the bathroom, then talk more tire and brake wear and rotation thoughts, and then next thing I new it was the next pit stop.
I think Tony had to make the executive decision to order me to go after I forgot to go 2-3 pitstops in a row. He said "wait until the car passes by again and you know you'll have two minutes.... GO!" :)
Of course, since we expected them to be at 100% full alert status during their stints, some drivers drove to a near by hotel and got real sleep, even. Gary mentioned a 4 hour sleep stint with a shower... At that point, I stank so bad and had so much brake dust on my face, that I so so so wanted to hug him to punish him for the luxurious life style he was living!
I know all the previous and all the future posts will do a great job of thanking the crew or the drivers or the team manager (Marshall), so I really want to thank two members of the crew in particular. Tony and Jamie. Before the race, Tony was instrumental to setting up the car. He knew how to interpret the comments the drivers made and really understand what was going on. I've always had the problem of believing what the driver says. If the driver says the car was getting upset when it hit a berm, I would work on the suspension reaction to the berm (adjusting high speed compression or whatever needs to be done). Tony, however, has long ago figured out that drivers don't always know what they're talking about. He asked the right questions and really worked with the drivers. Then he would make changes that surprised me. Car isn't working right at the berms? Adjust low speed compression damping. Why? From the driver's description of the actual problem event, Tony realized it was not the reaction to the berm, but the time it was taking for the chassis to settle in AFTER the berm...
At the race, Tony did a great job with overall mechanical management. He was very good at reading tires, brakes, suspension, etc., and was very good at deciding what needed to be done during each pit stop, making contingency-trees - if we see A, then do B, but if we see C, then do D. We had too few tires for this race but with Tony's careful tire management decisions (rotate front right to rear left, pull in this old rear right, etc), we were able to save an entire set of shaved tires for Gary's final 4 hour stint to keep and hold 3rd while having enough go-power and traction in reserve to fend off any encroaching competitors.
Jamie, from Easy Street, was totally not who I expected. We all know the reputation the ESX name carries outside the drag racing world. I had my own bias and the super tuner shootout certainly didn't help my opinion of ESX, despite my knowing who else was involved in the project. The first time I met Jamie was during the build phase. I only came into this project a couple weeks before the event, and the first time Jamie saw the car was about the same weekend. He was quite resourceful and was able to fabricate and fix things very efficiently. I thought "he's a damn good mechanic and fabricator."
But Jamie was a real champ at the pit wall. He came to us knowing nothing about road racing. He knew Subarus very well, and Subaru engines and drivelines, like no one else. It was almost fun to ask him the most trivial questions - how far is it from the centerline of the wrist pin to the first oil ring on a USDM STi motor? And on a 1997 JDM STi motor?
But Jamie has a great crew presence. The entire crew worked well with him. As he became more comfortable in the road racing environment (from a crew / mechanical standpoint, is any form of racing really that different? Something needs to get done, someone needs to figure out how to do it, and people need to implement it), he became more comfortable directing the crew, despite the crew's more intimate familiarity with road racing.
Jamie helped his reputation with the crew with creative solutions, that's certainly true. We had a fueling rig with no way to hold it up in the air to shoot the fuel into the car quickly. The fueling rig didn't come with legs! We had some legs brought in, but the legs had an OD of 2" and the fueling rig leg-holders had an ID of 2.5". I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to be standing beneath 150 gallons (1000 pounds) of fuel that was standing on rickety, mismatched legs!
Between Jamie and me, we found some old fence posts at the track, tracked down the appropriate track officials, and had 2.5" OD fence posts cut to 7 foot lengths. Then we found a thicker gate post (ie, a gate in that same fence had 3" OD posts that it swung on) that coincidentally had a 2.5" ID. Jamie ground some of the galvanizing / mud / etc., off the posts while I got the big 3" OD post sliced (we didn't have a cut-off wheel). Jamie finished the job by welding the big gate rings onto the fence posts and for $40, we had 4 legs that were strong enough to keep a car from crossing a fence, and strong enough to hold 1000 pounds of fuel 7 feet into the air!
By the end of the weekend, Jamie was in full crew management form. We (the rest of us) had pretty much given up on the idea of a pit stop that included a driver change, swapping all four tires for new tires, adding oil, adjusting the gas pedal stop (if you get over 100% throttle position, the STi limps you home, and some of our drivers overenthusiastically used the gas pedal :p), swapping radios, taping down the hood and adjusting the hood pins (because of damage from a front end tap), and adding some 25-30 gallons of gas, without losing at least 4 laps to the competition. That would put us within striking distance of the 4th place Porsche team... We had to get Gary into the final driver's seat and rely on him beating the crap out of the car to keep ahead of the Porsche.
Jamie said he'd be right back. He came back a couple minutes later with an extra floor jack (we had three, now we had 4) and an extra 18-volt Snap-on impact gun (we now had 4 18-volts instead of 3 18-volts and two 14.4-volts).
Jamie pulled together the entire pit crew and several drivers who were done with their driving stints. The whole lot of us listened in. The plan was to jump the wall and get the fuel into the car. While that happens, the only other work allowed by NASA is a driver's change and cleaning the windshield. As soon as the fuel was done going into the car, the fuel man was to shout to Jamie. The 4 jack people would have already gotten the jacks into position and would get the car into the air at all 4 corners. The wheels would get swapped, the brakes checked (visually), the oil added, the hood taped down, and the gas pedal stop fixed, after which, Jamie would instruct one side down, then the other, then clear the car, and tell the driver to go.
16 people over the wall (4 jack, 4 tire (including Tony and I, so we could do brake pad inspections at the same time), 2 fuel (fueller and fire extinguisher guy - both in head-to-toe nomex with helmets), 2 driver change assistants, 2 drivers, Marshall, and Navid (managers)) and the entire list of tasks took 3 minutes 43 seconds. We pushed the car to get it rolling while Gary started driving and out the pits he went. I think he had a bit of adrenaline in his system from our massive pit effort, so Marshall quickly reminded Gary on the radio that the pit limit was 25 mph.
What an awesome event and what an incredible time!
I went to sleep around 2 am and woke up at 3 pm today. I dunno how the rest of the crew was planning on working today...
Joel, happy and yet still tired... (err, and celebrating with some beer :))
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-05-2005 09:20 PM |
[QUOTE=Evil STI]What car(s) was your toughest competition during the event?[/QUOTE]
Hello,
The Porsches and one of the BMWs.
The Porsches were almost unstoppable. The Porsche that was leading the race by the time darkness settled in, was ahead of second place by 13 laps, I believe. From what I hear, the crew was constantly telling the driver to slow down. They were turning between 1:50 and 1:57 constantly, while we had a fast lap of 1:58 and typical laps of 2:05 +/- 2 seconds. Unfortunately, while "cruising" at the lead, going too fast for what was necessary, that Porsche took itself out of the race. The driver was either tapped or had a mechanical issue (rumors fly in the paddock, so unless you see the car, the driver, and talk to the folks who witnessed it from outside, you'll never know the real story). He flew off track, his nose dug in, and he did an end-over-end flip. Witnesses said they could see the car over the 20 ft tall fence at that side of the track. Some 50-70 feet up the hill, the flipping Porsche hit the ground for the second time (this time, rear side landed), and then did another flip. Some distance later, there was a crash impact mark on the hill and then evidence of a barrel roll that lasted through several complete rolls of the car.
When emergency crews arrived, the driver was outside of the car, surveying the damage. The car had a crushed front end corner where it had dug into the ground, a crushed rear corner where it landed from its first flip, and then crumpled sheet metal throughout. The cockpit, however, was 100% perfect, aside from slightly wrinkled sheet metal. The cage held up 100%.
I wanted to go check out the cage construction, but an hour after the crash, that team was completely packed and gone from the track!
We finished behind a Porsche and a BMW, and 4th place was a Porsche that was hunting us down. They suffered some kind of major mechanical break down and were forced to sit out quite a while to fix it. Once they got back on track, they started hunting us down again, going from 15th place to 4th place, I believe (but I'm not sure of the exact place they started - they may have been further back after their long pit), while doing consistent 1:57s, slowly catching up.
Going fast doesn't mean anything if you can't keep it together at that fast speed, though... The last 4 hours of the race involved Gary turning consistent laps of 2:01 to 2:05, depending on what Marshall asked him to do, while conserving fuel, conserving tires, conserving brakes, etc., to minimize the pits necessary. Marshall had Gary do various things - none of which seemed to slow G-dawg down. Marshall brought the shifts down to 6k rpms when we saw that Gary could do 2:02s without stressing the motor or the fuel. As tires became more of an issue, Gary slowed his corner speeds and increased his braking efforts. Still, more of the same laps.
The funny thing was, I think Gary was bored while doing a 4 hour stint in "conservation mode." He became the reporter in the field. He would tell us about the condition of other cars, his thoughts on their problems, etc. He mentioned one of the RX7s seemed to have a floating axle - the body would move about 6 inches left or right over the axle!), another car seemed to have a blown shock, etc.
Anyway, yeah, it's hard to beat a RWD Porsche or BMW in an open class that allows almost any modifications you want. Those guys had real tire sizes and a simple formula to follow. We had to draw on what we knew from super strict USTCC modded car experience, Jamies drag racing experience, and significant general racing experience (non AWD, non Subaru) for the rest of the team.
Next year, those Porsches and BMWs don't stand a chance :D
Joel
Hello,
The Porsches and one of the BMWs.
The Porsches were almost unstoppable. The Porsche that was leading the race by the time darkness settled in, was ahead of second place by 13 laps, I believe. From what I hear, the crew was constantly telling the driver to slow down. They were turning between 1:50 and 1:57 constantly, while we had a fast lap of 1:58 and typical laps of 2:05 +/- 2 seconds. Unfortunately, while "cruising" at the lead, going too fast for what was necessary, that Porsche took itself out of the race. The driver was either tapped or had a mechanical issue (rumors fly in the paddock, so unless you see the car, the driver, and talk to the folks who witnessed it from outside, you'll never know the real story). He flew off track, his nose dug in, and he did an end-over-end flip. Witnesses said they could see the car over the 20 ft tall fence at that side of the track. Some 50-70 feet up the hill, the flipping Porsche hit the ground for the second time (this time, rear side landed), and then did another flip. Some distance later, there was a crash impact mark on the hill and then evidence of a barrel roll that lasted through several complete rolls of the car.
When emergency crews arrived, the driver was outside of the car, surveying the damage. The car had a crushed front end corner where it had dug into the ground, a crushed rear corner where it landed from its first flip, and then crumpled sheet metal throughout. The cockpit, however, was 100% perfect, aside from slightly wrinkled sheet metal. The cage held up 100%.
I wanted to go check out the cage construction, but an hour after the crash, that team was completely packed and gone from the track!
We finished behind a Porsche and a BMW, and 4th place was a Porsche that was hunting us down. They suffered some kind of major mechanical break down and were forced to sit out quite a while to fix it. Once they got back on track, they started hunting us down again, going from 15th place to 4th place, I believe (but I'm not sure of the exact place they started - they may have been further back after their long pit), while doing consistent 1:57s, slowly catching up.
Going fast doesn't mean anything if you can't keep it together at that fast speed, though... The last 4 hours of the race involved Gary turning consistent laps of 2:01 to 2:05, depending on what Marshall asked him to do, while conserving fuel, conserving tires, conserving brakes, etc., to minimize the pits necessary. Marshall had Gary do various things - none of which seemed to slow G-dawg down. Marshall brought the shifts down to 6k rpms when we saw that Gary could do 2:02s without stressing the motor or the fuel. As tires became more of an issue, Gary slowed his corner speeds and increased his braking efforts. Still, more of the same laps.
The funny thing was, I think Gary was bored while doing a 4 hour stint in "conservation mode." He became the reporter in the field. He would tell us about the condition of other cars, his thoughts on their problems, etc. He mentioned one of the RX7s seemed to have a floating axle - the body would move about 6 inches left or right over the axle!), another car seemed to have a blown shock, etc.
Anyway, yeah, it's hard to beat a RWD Porsche or BMW in an open class that allows almost any modifications you want. Those guys had real tire sizes and a simple formula to follow. We had to draw on what we knew from super strict USTCC modded car experience, Jamies drag racing experience, and significant general racing experience (non AWD, non Subaru) for the rest of the team.
Next year, those Porsches and BMWs don't stand a chance :D
Joel
| zoomfactor | 12-05-2005 09:40 PM |
Congratulations and thanks to everyone for a nice informative write-up!
| MPME | 12-05-2005 09:40 PM |
"[I]What an awesome even and what an incredible time!
I went to sleep around 2 am and woke up at 3 pm today. I dunno how the rest of the crew was planning on working today...[/I]"
Joel--thanks for all your incredible help. I know I pushed you VERY hard, and challenged some of our discussions, but you never skipped a beat. You were an immediate choice for my MVP of the weekend award, along with all the managers and drivers.
As for me, I rolled into work at 9:30, had my boss (a company Director) stare at me, start to ask why I was late, stopped, and commented--"You look like ****!" I thanked him for helping me to understand that I looked like I felt. 25hrs in 30ish degree weather will do that to you.
I went to sleep around 2 am and woke up at 3 pm today. I dunno how the rest of the crew was planning on working today...[/I]"
Joel--thanks for all your incredible help. I know I pushed you VERY hard, and challenged some of our discussions, but you never skipped a beat. You were an immediate choice for my MVP of the weekend award, along with all the managers and drivers.
As for me, I rolled into work at 9:30, had my boss (a company Director) stare at me, start to ask why I was late, stopped, and commented--"You look like ****!" I thanked him for helping me to understand that I looked like I felt. 25hrs in 30ish degree weather will do that to you.
| Evil STI | 12-05-2005 09:46 PM |
Thanks for the reply. Great job representing Subaru, and especially the potential and durability of the STI.
| RyanRLaMothe | 12-05-2005 11:18 PM |
[QUOTE=Arnie]I guess that's the difference in running a production based vehicle and a true race car..[/QUOTE] :rolleyes:
Anyways, Congratulations Gary and everyone!!! :D
Anyways, Congratulations Gary and everyone!!! :D
| Arnie | 12-05-2005 11:31 PM |
Thanks for more war stories, esp Joel. I miss your huge monologues of the racing action. Now I want to hear Gary's as well. I really miss those days of the huge play by play of a race. I'd like to hear more from the other driver's, what they thought of the other cars, what could be improved in the car, etc.
| Arnie | 12-05-2005 11:40 PM |
[QUOTE=RyanRLaMothe]:rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
What's up with this comment? Its a fact. That STi is a bought-from-the-showroom-and-then-modified-with-bolt-on's car. Its not a factory built race car. The difference between a production car and race car is huge. Just compare a standard Porsche GT3 and the GT3 RSR. Huge difference in spec. it would be the difference between buying a stock STi and Group A car built by Prodrive.
[/QUOTE]
What's up with this comment? Its a fact. That STi is a bought-from-the-showroom-and-then-modified-with-bolt-on's car. Its not a factory built race car. The difference between a production car and race car is huge. Just compare a standard Porsche GT3 and the GT3 RSR. Huge difference in spec. it would be the difference between buying a stock STi and Group A car built by Prodrive.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-06-2005 12:03 AM |
Hello,
[QUOTE=Arnie]Thanks for more war stories, esp Joel. I miss your huge monologues of the racing action.[/quote]
This one is hard... I see Jamie posted a couple times when he went to the trailer. I pretty much used any down time I had to eat. I think I gained 5 pounds while not sleeping over the whole weekend :p Need energy to stay awake...
But it's only a day later and I'm already forgetting details. The whole 5-day almost sleepless period kinda sapped my memory and brain. I don't remember the drive home - just the three blissful sleeps, the 2nd of which was interrupted by a cop who was more than happy to see that I wasn't drunk or doing drugs, just sleeping - "hey, a tired driver is worse than a drunk driver, so feel free to keep sleeping as long as you need."
[quote]what they thought of the other cars,[/quote]
Mazdaspeed was there with the new Pro-Spec Miata. Talk about fast! Those Miatas were turning 2:06 fairly consistently. If anyone has been to Thunderhill, even with the bypass, that's fast! 2:07 was the Spec Miata record and that was already insane. Now doing regular 2:06s... wow!
I believe 5th and 6th place were the Honda Research and Development Civics. The Honda factory cars were insanely fast for little motor, non-boosted Civics!
Aside from that, I think a lot of cars had huge power and not enough reliability to keep up with their power. There were many cars that were much faster than we were.... but they blew up. :) We ran our low boost setting (260-275 hp at the wheels, practically stock power) for pretty much the entire race, including Gary's 1:58 and his last 4 hours.
[quote]what could be improved in the car, etc.[/QUOTE]
Another week of suspension development. Smaller OD struts so that wider wheels can be fit and common sized springs can be used. Camber plates. More durability mods so that we don't have to be so worried about parts failing (we made aluminum shields for tie rod bushings, but I'd like to see something better than what I can make at the track). Brake ducts. Brake ducts are a big one. The StopTech brakes worked wonderfully all weekend long, especially considering that they had no air ducted to them. We used 1.5 sets of endurance pads in the rear, and 1 set of endurance, 1 set of higher friction, and then finished the race on 1 more set of endurance pads in the front. The fronts lasted ok, but we had to tell drivers to go easy on the brakes. I'd like the drivers not to have to think about that and be able to drive as hard as they need. Heat management would do that.
Bigger Tires. We ran on 225s. That's tiny. Miatas run 205s. Street STis run 245-255. A full blown race car should run on at least 255s... I know wheel bearings MIGHT have been a problem, so if we'd had more time, we should have tested and figured out what makes the bearings weak. Gary and I drove the USTCC car on way more power during the Open Track Challenge, with Hoosiers. We ran many races on the same wheel bearings, so I know with proper heat management and good lubricants, like Krytox, the bearings can last well. We need a chance to test this car with krytox and brake ducts to see if it can handle 25 hours of racing on the stock bearings. OF course, custom fabricated uprights would be cool, but that goes beyond what most rules allow :p
I'm sure there are more things... but those are off the top of my head.
Joel
[QUOTE=Arnie]Thanks for more war stories, esp Joel. I miss your huge monologues of the racing action.[/quote]
This one is hard... I see Jamie posted a couple times when he went to the trailer. I pretty much used any down time I had to eat. I think I gained 5 pounds while not sleeping over the whole weekend :p Need energy to stay awake...
But it's only a day later and I'm already forgetting details. The whole 5-day almost sleepless period kinda sapped my memory and brain. I don't remember the drive home - just the three blissful sleeps, the 2nd of which was interrupted by a cop who was more than happy to see that I wasn't drunk or doing drugs, just sleeping - "hey, a tired driver is worse than a drunk driver, so feel free to keep sleeping as long as you need."
[quote]what they thought of the other cars,[/quote]
Mazdaspeed was there with the new Pro-Spec Miata. Talk about fast! Those Miatas were turning 2:06 fairly consistently. If anyone has been to Thunderhill, even with the bypass, that's fast! 2:07 was the Spec Miata record and that was already insane. Now doing regular 2:06s... wow!
I believe 5th and 6th place were the Honda Research and Development Civics. The Honda factory cars were insanely fast for little motor, non-boosted Civics!
Aside from that, I think a lot of cars had huge power and not enough reliability to keep up with their power. There were many cars that were much faster than we were.... but they blew up. :) We ran our low boost setting (260-275 hp at the wheels, practically stock power) for pretty much the entire race, including Gary's 1:58 and his last 4 hours.
[quote]what could be improved in the car, etc.[/QUOTE]
Another week of suspension development. Smaller OD struts so that wider wheels can be fit and common sized springs can be used. Camber plates. More durability mods so that we don't have to be so worried about parts failing (we made aluminum shields for tie rod bushings, but I'd like to see something better than what I can make at the track). Brake ducts. Brake ducts are a big one. The StopTech brakes worked wonderfully all weekend long, especially considering that they had no air ducted to them. We used 1.5 sets of endurance pads in the rear, and 1 set of endurance, 1 set of higher friction, and then finished the race on 1 more set of endurance pads in the front. The fronts lasted ok, but we had to tell drivers to go easy on the brakes. I'd like the drivers not to have to think about that and be able to drive as hard as they need. Heat management would do that.
Bigger Tires. We ran on 225s. That's tiny. Miatas run 205s. Street STis run 245-255. A full blown race car should run on at least 255s... I know wheel bearings MIGHT have been a problem, so if we'd had more time, we should have tested and figured out what makes the bearings weak. Gary and I drove the USTCC car on way more power during the Open Track Challenge, with Hoosiers. We ran many races on the same wheel bearings, so I know with proper heat management and good lubricants, like Krytox, the bearings can last well. We need a chance to test this car with krytox and brake ducts to see if it can handle 25 hours of racing on the stock bearings. OF course, custom fabricated uprights would be cool, but that goes beyond what most rules allow :p
I'm sure there are more things... but those are off the top of my head.
Joel
| driggity | 12-06-2005 12:36 PM |
Was the decision to run at lower power levels just to keep up engine reliability or was it to also put less wear on the other components of the car? And with the other limiting factors on the car (mainly tires it sounds like) would the extra power really have made that big of a difference in a race like this?
Its awesome to see the car make such a great finish in its first race, and I guess also the first race for this team. Hopefully this car/team will be showing up in many more places together.
Its awesome to see the car make such a great finish in its first race, and I guess also the first race for this team. Hopefully this car/team will be showing up in many more places together.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-06-2005 02:08 PM |
Hello,
Well, the decision was ultimately Marshall's decision, but I can probably say a little about it. The biggest factor was that if we didn't need all that power, we shouldn't risk using it all. Jamie has built motors that make this thing look like a baby, so we trusted his feeling that the motor would run all day making the 460 whp it made on high boost. What we didn't know and had never tested is what components fail after 25 hours of 460 hp. The motor was slightly suspect, the clutch and tranny were suspect, the diffs and axles were suspect, the brakes (since there was no ducting) would have been put through the ringer (imagine what an extra 200 hp would do for acceleration... now imagine that the brakes have to haul all that mass down from higher speeds at every corner including the two long straights), and most certainly, the tires would have been further destroyed. If the tires did nothing different aside from dealt with greater braking events, they would have been toast, especially along their inside edges.
[quote=driggity]Its awesome to see the car make such a great finish in its first race, and I guess also the first race for this team. Hopefully this car/team will be showing up in many more places together.[/quote]
We hope so, too. And we'd like to spend a bunch of time wringing the car around the track at the high hp levels, without fixing anything that's currently "sad", to see what breaks first. We need to establish limits for all the parts. We need to tune the suspension for real tires (fatter, stickier tires) and then see what breaks. There are many things left to do...
Heh... everyone needs to let Ali know how awesome it is to see ESX in road racing, tearing things up with a Subaru. Then we can be certain he'll continue these efforts :)
Joel
Well, the decision was ultimately Marshall's decision, but I can probably say a little about it. The biggest factor was that if we didn't need all that power, we shouldn't risk using it all. Jamie has built motors that make this thing look like a baby, so we trusted his feeling that the motor would run all day making the 460 whp it made on high boost. What we didn't know and had never tested is what components fail after 25 hours of 460 hp. The motor was slightly suspect, the clutch and tranny were suspect, the diffs and axles were suspect, the brakes (since there was no ducting) would have been put through the ringer (imagine what an extra 200 hp would do for acceleration... now imagine that the brakes have to haul all that mass down from higher speeds at every corner including the two long straights), and most certainly, the tires would have been further destroyed. If the tires did nothing different aside from dealt with greater braking events, they would have been toast, especially along their inside edges.
[quote=driggity]Its awesome to see the car make such a great finish in its first race, and I guess also the first race for this team. Hopefully this car/team will be showing up in many more places together.[/quote]
We hope so, too. And we'd like to spend a bunch of time wringing the car around the track at the high hp levels, without fixing anything that's currently "sad", to see what breaks first. We need to establish limits for all the parts. We need to tune the suspension for real tires (fatter, stickier tires) and then see what breaks. There are many things left to do...
Heh... everyone needs to let Ali know how awesome it is to see ESX in road racing, tearing things up with a Subaru. Then we can be certain he'll continue these efforts :)
Joel
| MPME | 12-06-2005 02:44 PM |
The limiting factor here is that no one has ever run this exact motor with the turbo/cooler configuration for more than an hour straight. No matter how much HP or experience othersmight have, and no matter hom much I trust Jaime's vast knowledge, none of us can claim to have run a 460whp 2.5L motor for 25 hours straight. Fact is, I think we are the first!
In the endurance racing game, no matter how big your resources are (big HP, big brakes, etc), winning at the slowest speed possible is the game. We didn't win, came close, and have learned a ton for next year.
With some of those lessons applied, I think I might let Jaime talk me into a few more ponies... ;-)
In the endurance racing game, no matter how big your resources are (big HP, big brakes, etc), winning at the slowest speed possible is the game. We didn't win, came close, and have learned a ton for next year.
With some of those lessons applied, I think I might let Jaime talk me into a few more ponies... ;-)
| driggity | 12-06-2005 02:48 PM |
Yep, good to see ESX putting their name behind a road racing venture. Now, if only they'd put something about this on their website ;) Although to be fair I think that Car and Driver may be the only member of "Team Alphabet" with something about the race on their site.
Oh, and another question. Was the Stoptech setup just one of their off the shelf brake kits? And if so, which size.
Oh, and another question. Was the Stoptech setup just one of their off the shelf brake kits? And if so, which size.
| MPME | 12-06-2005 02:55 PM |
Our event partner, [url]www.justracing.com[/url] has coverage of the event--a TON more coverage will be up this week--in-car footage of Gary's first hour in the car, driver diaries, 1hr of Dale's night driving, and a bunch of other things. Thanks for the interest--we're hoping all of the positive press and interest will help manifest into $ to go WCGT with the car next year...all it takes is money!
| MPME | 12-06-2005 03:00 PM |
[QUOTE=driggity]Yep, good to see ESX putting their name behind a road racing venture. Now, if only they'd put something about this on their website ;) Although to be fair I think that Car and Driver may be the only member of "Team Alphabet" with something about the race on their site.
Oh, and another question. Was the Stoptech setup just one of their off the shelf brake kits? And if so, which size.[/QUOTE]
Thier standard 355mm front big brake kit, and a prototype rear 322mm setup (stock calipers, meaty discs, custom rotor hats). A dear friend of mine (Troy Stevens, former Indycar Cheif Mechanic and master fabricator) did the fab work on the stock rear Subie uprights--moved the caliper tabs out 3mm to make the custom rear kit work).
Man, talk about awesome--brake bias wasn't affected, stopping power was greatly increased, and wear was extended like crazy. I ran out of time to create/install proper brake ducting to the car for the race (my fault)--the strength of StopTech's products saved my arse BIG TIME--the car hit the track with about 50 line items left to do that I ran out of time for--brake ducting was at the top of the list.
Most teams would be wary about trying out a new rear braking setup going into a 25hr race with no real endurance testing before---I never even thought about it--I knew I was in good hands.
Oh, and another question. Was the Stoptech setup just one of their off the shelf brake kits? And if so, which size.[/QUOTE]
Thier standard 355mm front big brake kit, and a prototype rear 322mm setup (stock calipers, meaty discs, custom rotor hats). A dear friend of mine (Troy Stevens, former Indycar Cheif Mechanic and master fabricator) did the fab work on the stock rear Subie uprights--moved the caliper tabs out 3mm to make the custom rear kit work).
Man, talk about awesome--brake bias wasn't affected, stopping power was greatly increased, and wear was extended like crazy. I ran out of time to create/install proper brake ducting to the car for the race (my fault)--the strength of StopTech's products saved my arse BIG TIME--the car hit the track with about 50 line items left to do that I ran out of time for--brake ducting was at the top of the list.
Most teams would be wary about trying out a new rear braking setup going into a 25hr race with no real endurance testing before---I never even thought about it--I knew I was in good hands.
| MPME | 12-06-2005 03:06 PM |
HiRes Pics
�
�
Wallpaper, no commerical use, please--from our team photographer David Leong.
[url]http://www.dleong.org/2005/Track/25hr/66/66.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.dleong.org/2005/Track/25hr/66/66.htm[/url]
| psg | 12-06-2005 03:13 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]Wallpaper, no commerical use, please--from our team photographer David Leong.[/Quote]
You guys rock. :)
You guys rock. :)
| driggity | 12-06-2005 03:31 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]Thier standard 355mm front big brake kit, and a prototype rear 322mm setup (stock calipers, meaty discs, custom rotor hats).[/QUOTE]
Very impressive that their stock front brake setup was able to handle a 25hr enduro race.
And thanks for the links to the pictures.
Very impressive that their stock front brake setup was able to handle a 25hr enduro race.
And thanks for the links to the pictures.
| NeoteriX | 12-06-2005 03:42 PM |
Any choice wallpaper pics out of the selection>?
| BROKENWRX | 12-06-2005 03:52 PM |
Well it has been almost 48 hours since the finish of the race, and I can still see the car out there cutting laps. I am still thinking of how to make the pit stops faster, how the car is doing, looking at the timing board wondering what we need to do to keep third but still looking ahead at 2nd, were can we make up those laps???, could I have done something else previously?? I need to relise that it is over, there is 362 days till we do it again.
I must thank every one involved directly and indirectly in this event. It was with out dough the most for filling and proudest moment in my small motor sports career. I don�t believe that you can fully understand what it takes or what it is like to do something like this, until you have been involved.
I will be the first to put my hand up in the air and say that I had my dough�s about this car. I called it the "2 hour car", up until the Friday of the race, when Marshall, Tony, Joel, Gary, Navide and the others all put the collective minds together and started to set the car up for the track. Once I saw the talent of the group all working together, things in my mind started to change. People started to click; we all became a team, not a group of individuals. We were all now working to a common goal. Once the car hit the track for its first test session we all new we had a race car.
I can not say enough about the team, what a group of guys.
I will end this useless ramble with a quote from my self as the checkered flag dropped "I am now officially retiring from drag racing, where do I sign up for more of this #@*&!".
I must thank every one involved directly and indirectly in this event. It was with out dough the most for filling and proudest moment in my small motor sports career. I don�t believe that you can fully understand what it takes or what it is like to do something like this, until you have been involved.
I will be the first to put my hand up in the air and say that I had my dough�s about this car. I called it the "2 hour car", up until the Friday of the race, when Marshall, Tony, Joel, Gary, Navide and the others all put the collective minds together and started to set the car up for the track. Once I saw the talent of the group all working together, things in my mind started to change. People started to click; we all became a team, not a group of individuals. We were all now working to a common goal. Once the car hit the track for its first test session we all new we had a race car.
I can not say enough about the team, what a group of guys.
I will end this useless ramble with a quote from my self as the checkered flag dropped "I am now officially retiring from drag racing, where do I sign up for more of this #@*&!".
| MPME | 12-06-2005 04:54 PM |
[QUOTE=driggity]Very impressive that their stock front brake setup was able to handle a 25hr enduro race.
And thanks for the links to the pictures.[/QUOTE]
You bet--all keep checking back to [url]www.justracing.com[/url] for more 25hr updates. We're going to fill up the site with everything possible. Can't wait!
And thanks for the links to the pictures.[/QUOTE]
You bet--all keep checking back to [url]www.justracing.com[/url] for more 25hr updates. We're going to fill up the site with everything possible. Can't wait!
| GarySheehan | 12-06-2005 05:16 PM |
[QUOTE=driggity]Oh, and another question. Was the Stoptech setup just one of their off the shelf brake kits? And if so, which size.[/QUOTE]
As I've said before, the Stoptech ST-40 calipers and Aerorotors that we raced with on the USTCC car and on the ESX car are the very same ones sold in their BBK's. They truly are brakes that are at home on the track as well as the street.
The rears are not part of a kit, since there are fitment issues with the STi. So Stoptech made us some prototypes as Marshall pointed out.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
As I've said before, the Stoptech ST-40 calipers and Aerorotors that we raced with on the USTCC car and on the ESX car are the very same ones sold in their BBK's. They truly are brakes that are at home on the track as well as the street.
The rears are not part of a kit, since there are fitment issues with the STi. So Stoptech made us some prototypes as Marshall pointed out.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| MPME | 12-06-2005 10:07 PM |
Read Gary's Press Release here:
�
�
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11906865[/url]
Nice! Almost makes me sound like I know what I'm doing! :D
Nice! Almost makes me sound like I know what I'm doing! :D
| makofoto | 12-06-2005 11:13 PM |
While "his" car was doing so well at Thunder Hill ... Ali was at his 1st Annual Subaru Nationals at Los Angeles County Race Way.
[IMG]http://images14.fotki.com/v256/photos/4/43793/2933276/CUWide-vi.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images14.fotki.com/v244/photos/4/43793/2933276/HighWide-vi.jpg[/IMG]
Team Blew hosted an Auto Cross ... creating future Subaru road racers! ;)
[IMG]http://images14.fotki.com/v256/photos/4/43793/2933276/CUWide-vi.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images14.fotki.com/v244/photos/4/43793/2933276/HighWide-vi.jpg[/IMG]
Team Blew hosted an Auto Cross ... creating future Subaru road racers! ;)
| GarySheehan | 12-06-2005 11:37 PM |
Yup. That trailer and rig was up with us until about 1:30am Sunday morning. They stayed with us as long as they could, providing a warm and VERY comfortable decompression area for the drivers and crew. Then they hauled butt to get down to LA to be there for that event as well! Busy guys!!!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| makofoto | 12-06-2005 11:43 PM |
Oh ... that's why they arrived "late." Cool that they gave you all that support!
ESX help support our STU STI guys by giving them GREAT deals on wheels and tires! ESX stock is rising!
ESX help support our STU STI guys by giving them GREAT deals on wheels and tires! ESX stock is rising!
| bemani | 12-06-2005 11:44 PM |
So when can we buy the race-proven fender wings? :D
| cdvma | 12-06-2005 11:54 PM |
[QUOTE=AlpineFD]there are wings on the fender?[/QUOTE]
Yea can anyone from the team comment on these? Interesting as I've never seen them on any car like that before.
Yea can anyone from the team comment on these? Interesting as I've never seen them on any car like that before.
| MPME | 12-07-2005 12:22 AM |
[QUOTE=cdvma]Yea can anyone from the team comment on these? Interesting as I've never seen them on any car like that before.[/QUOTE]
They are from a 2001 CART Indycar--in my former life as an Indycar Team Manager and Engineer, aerodynamics were my favorite discipline. Knowing some of the inherent understeer characteristics in the STi (most 4WD cars, for that matter), I opted to use some air to solve the problem along with a number of engineering/setup work. The Perrin PSRS pieces also helped, but I wanted to adopt some of my experience to an STi as no one has ever seen. They aren't for looks (although I knew they'd freak people out), do work, and provide a known amount of downforce and drag at specific speeds the vehicle operates at. At the 25hrs, some of the press started calling the car *The Flying Nun*...
I have and Indycar rear wing I wanted to mount, but without time to work on some underbody areodynamics, I would have only induced greater understeer--that wing makes BIG downforce.
I have an article in this months TPR ([url]www.tprmag.com[/url]) on street/strip aero, and have the 2nd part on road racing aero due tomorrow night.
ART is supposed to be a manifestation of knowledge learned in coslty series, distilled down to something the average racer can use to their benefit, but also can't find anywhere else, be it parts or engineering and design services. That's not a plug, just what we're about.
They are from a 2001 CART Indycar--in my former life as an Indycar Team Manager and Engineer, aerodynamics were my favorite discipline. Knowing some of the inherent understeer characteristics in the STi (most 4WD cars, for that matter), I opted to use some air to solve the problem along with a number of engineering/setup work. The Perrin PSRS pieces also helped, but I wanted to adopt some of my experience to an STi as no one has ever seen. They aren't for looks (although I knew they'd freak people out), do work, and provide a known amount of downforce and drag at specific speeds the vehicle operates at. At the 25hrs, some of the press started calling the car *The Flying Nun*...
I have and Indycar rear wing I wanted to mount, but without time to work on some underbody areodynamics, I would have only induced greater understeer--that wing makes BIG downforce.
I have an article in this months TPR ([url]www.tprmag.com[/url]) on street/strip aero, and have the 2nd part on road racing aero due tomorrow night.
ART is supposed to be a manifestation of knowledge learned in coslty series, distilled down to something the average racer can use to their benefit, but also can't find anywhere else, be it parts or engineering and design services. That's not a plug, just what we're about.
| GarySheehan | 12-07-2005 01:19 AM |
[QUOTE=Rally_wgn]...Oh and congrats on the little girl![/QUOTE]
Thanks! Here she is, enjoying her first race with daddy. She LOVED it!!
[img]http://teamsmr.com/images/25%20Hour%20Web%206.jpg[/img]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Thanks! Here she is, enjoying her first race with daddy. She LOVED it!!
[img]http://teamsmr.com/images/25%20Hour%20Web%206.jpg[/img]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| makofoto | 12-07-2005 01:22 AM |
Cute "driving" suit ... :-) Auston Harris better watch out ... the next generation will be on the move soon.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-07-2005 03:24 AM |
[QUOTE=cdvma]Yea can anyone from the team comment on these? Interesting as I've never seen them on any car like that before.[/QUOTE]
Hello,
I found the wings to make great cell phone and tools holders while working under the hood, but, unfortunately, they also made great causers of pain to the forehead every time I stood up from working on the brakes... :)
Joel
Hello,
I found the wings to make great cell phone and tools holders while working under the hood, but, unfortunately, they also made great causers of pain to the forehead every time I stood up from working on the brakes... :)
Joel
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-07-2005 12:33 PM |
Hello,
[QUOTE=BROKENWRX]I will be the first to put my hand up in the air and say that I had my dou[i]bt[/i]s about this car. I called it the "2 hour car", up until the Friday of the race, when Marshall, Tony, Joel, Gary, Navide and the others all put the collective minds together and started to set the car up for the track. Once I saw the talent of the group all working together, things in my mind started to change. People started to click; we all became a team, not a group of individuals. We were all now working to a common goal. Once the car hit the track for its first test session we all new we had a race car.[/quote]
Hahah... yeah, I think that's about the time that you told us all "If it lasts 4 hours, it's a major success." :D
[quote=BROKENWRX]I can not say enough about the team, what a group of guys.[/quote]
Amen!
[quote=BROKENWRX]I will end this useless ramble with a quote from my self as the checkered flag dropped "I am now officially retiring from drag racing, where do I sign up for more of this #@*&!".[/QUOTE]
I wish we could have recorded the cheer that spread through the pit when Jamie said that. I think I asked him something about crewing for a drag racing event and he replied with his above-quoted statement. Someone overheard (Steven or Marco, maybe?) and shouted to everyone, and everyone erupted into massive cheers. We'd converted Jamie to road racing!
He helped ESX win ten Wallys, he's got the dedication and skill necessary, so here's to Jamie (and the rest of our crew and drivers and etc...) bringing more national fame in road racing to ESX in 2006!
Cheers!
Joel
[QUOTE=BROKENWRX]I will be the first to put my hand up in the air and say that I had my dou[i]bt[/i]s about this car. I called it the "2 hour car", up until the Friday of the race, when Marshall, Tony, Joel, Gary, Navide and the others all put the collective minds together and started to set the car up for the track. Once I saw the talent of the group all working together, things in my mind started to change. People started to click; we all became a team, not a group of individuals. We were all now working to a common goal. Once the car hit the track for its first test session we all new we had a race car.[/quote]
Hahah... yeah, I think that's about the time that you told us all "If it lasts 4 hours, it's a major success." :D
[quote=BROKENWRX]I can not say enough about the team, what a group of guys.[/quote]
Amen!
[quote=BROKENWRX]I will end this useless ramble with a quote from my self as the checkered flag dropped "I am now officially retiring from drag racing, where do I sign up for more of this #@*&!".[/QUOTE]
I wish we could have recorded the cheer that spread through the pit when Jamie said that. I think I asked him something about crewing for a drag racing event and he replied with his above-quoted statement. Someone overheard (Steven or Marco, maybe?) and shouted to everyone, and everyone erupted into massive cheers. We'd converted Jamie to road racing!
He helped ESX win ten Wallys, he's got the dedication and skill necessary, so here's to Jamie (and the rest of our crew and drivers and etc...) bringing more national fame in road racing to ESX in 2006!
Cheers!
Joel
| MPME | 12-07-2005 02:28 PM |
[QUOTE=Joel Gat, 1.8L]Hello,
Hahah... yeah, I think that's about the time that you told us all "If it lasts 4 hours, it's a major success." :D
Amen!
I wish we could have recorded the cheer that spread through the pit when Jamie said that. I think I asked him something about crewing for a drag racing event and he replied with his above-quoted statement. Someone overheard (Steven or Marco, maybe?) and shouted to everyone, and everyone erupted into massive cheers. We'd converted Jamie to road racing!
He helped ESX win ten Wallys, he's got the dedication and skill necessary, so here's to Jamie (and the rest of our crew and drivers and etc...) bringing more national fame in road racing to ESX in 2006!
Cheers!
Joel[/QUOTE]
Amen--and to finding the $500K I need to complete the build and field the car for a season of WCGT... ;-)
Hahah... yeah, I think that's about the time that you told us all "If it lasts 4 hours, it's a major success." :D
Amen!
I wish we could have recorded the cheer that spread through the pit when Jamie said that. I think I asked him something about crewing for a drag racing event and he replied with his above-quoted statement. Someone overheard (Steven or Marco, maybe?) and shouted to everyone, and everyone erupted into massive cheers. We'd converted Jamie to road racing!
He helped ESX win ten Wallys, he's got the dedication and skill necessary, so here's to Jamie (and the rest of our crew and drivers and etc...) bringing more national fame in road racing to ESX in 2006!
Cheers!
Joel[/QUOTE]
Amen--and to finding the $500K I need to complete the build and field the car for a season of WCGT... ;-)
| endeavor | 12-07-2005 03:06 PM |
[QUOTE=NeoteriX]Any choice wallpaper pics out of the selection>?[/QUOTE]
DSC_627lg.jpg
DSC_6302lg.jpg
DSC_6313lg.jpg
DSC_6418lg.jpg
DSC_6447lg.jpg
DSC_6479lg.jpg
DSC_6496lg.jpg
DSC_6522lg.jpg
DSC_6569lg.jpg
DSC_6575lg.jpg
DSC_6676alg.jpg
DSC_6737lg.jpg
DSC_6757lg.jpg
DSC_6974lg.jpg
Great showing guys. I can't wait to see the car in WCGT ;) :D
DSC_627lg.jpg
DSC_6302lg.jpg
DSC_6313lg.jpg
DSC_6418lg.jpg
DSC_6447lg.jpg
DSC_6479lg.jpg
DSC_6496lg.jpg
DSC_6522lg.jpg
DSC_6569lg.jpg
DSC_6575lg.jpg
DSC_6676alg.jpg
DSC_6737lg.jpg
DSC_6757lg.jpg
DSC_6974lg.jpg
Great showing guys. I can't wait to see the car in WCGT ;) :D
| ride5000 | 12-07-2005 04:34 PM |
wow, great thread, great results... makes me proud all around.
congratulations to you guys--job well done!
HUZZAH!!!
:banana:
congratulations to you guys--job well done!
HUZZAH!!!
:banana:
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