| Scooby South | 02-21-2005 11:02 AM |
ESP Guys...Where are you in the Scheme of things
�
�
Competing in my first event of the new year ...just trying to gauge where you guys are in the overall scheme of things...FTD???...Top in PAX...Where are your times comparativly....What class is faster than you..or what car(s) are faster than you on a consistant basis......just curious about other regions...
I searched online last night..and it seems that most ESP cars are about 1-2 secs behind FTD...(No Karts, A Mod, or B Mod cars...) just cars..
I drove decently...but definately can't wait to get my suspension in...Car didn't feel smooth...at all...suspension wise...Suspension=Stock cept Eibach Pro kit... coilovers coming..
Where are you guys at locally in ESP compared to the field...I was 6th OA and 9th in Pax out of123 drivers... FTD was 64.3xx (Gary Mease. 04 S2000 with Hoosiers in AS)my time was a 66.4xx
thanks
Bill
I searched online last night..and it seems that most ESP cars are about 1-2 secs behind FTD...(No Karts, A Mod, or B Mod cars...) just cars..
I drove decently...but definately can't wait to get my suspension in...Car didn't feel smooth...at all...suspension wise...Suspension=Stock cept Eibach Pro kit... coilovers coming..
Where are you guys at locally in ESP compared to the field...I was 6th OA and 9th in Pax out of123 drivers... FTD was 64.3xx (Gary Mease. 04 S2000 with Hoosiers in AS)my time was a 66.4xx
thanks
Bill
| Draken | 02-21-2005 11:12 AM |
I only ran one local New England Region event before nationals with my ESP setup. I ran in SM, cause it was 15-20 cars, as opposed to 3 car ESP class.
---
Pos. Car # Driver Car Model Time Difference From 1st
1m am 38 William Goodale Yellow F1 25.165 0.000 0.000
2m cm 146 Mark Daddio Silver 26.393 1.228 1.228
3m cm 46 Tyson Sawyer Silver Reynard 26.709 0.316 1.544
4m am 164 Bill Gendron CK/Dragon 26.980 0.271 1.815
5m am 64 Robert Barone CK/Dragon 27.438 0.458 2.273
6m am 18 Jerry Shields Blue/Yellow SuperVee 27.687 0.249 2.522
7m fsae 75 Robert I. Eisele RPI 27.724 0.037 2.559
8m fm 5 Bob Jordan Red Z22 28.611 0.887 3.446
9m fm 75 John T MacDonald Flamed D13S 28.799 0.188 3.634
10m ep 145 Brian Levesque Black/White Skunk 28.927 0.128 3.762
11m ap 10 Charles Levesque White 1500 29.145 0.218 3.980
12m fsae 175 Tyler Feralio RPI 29.155 0.010 3.990
13m f125 159 Paul Bowin Silver Sprint 29.370 0.215 4.205
14m sm 3 Chris Hartman Silver STI 29.454 0.084 4.289
15m ss 19 Matt Murray Red Carerra 29.664 0.210 4.499
---
Basically, top time for a non Mod or Prep car. The course was fairly tight too.
Chris H.
---
Pos. Car # Driver Car Model Time Difference From 1st
1m am 38 William Goodale Yellow F1 25.165 0.000 0.000
2m cm 146 Mark Daddio Silver 26.393 1.228 1.228
3m cm 46 Tyson Sawyer Silver Reynard 26.709 0.316 1.544
4m am 164 Bill Gendron CK/Dragon 26.980 0.271 1.815
5m am 64 Robert Barone CK/Dragon 27.438 0.458 2.273
6m am 18 Jerry Shields Blue/Yellow SuperVee 27.687 0.249 2.522
7m fsae 75 Robert I. Eisele RPI 27.724 0.037 2.559
8m fm 5 Bob Jordan Red Z22 28.611 0.887 3.446
9m fm 75 John T MacDonald Flamed D13S 28.799 0.188 3.634
10m ep 145 Brian Levesque Black/White Skunk 28.927 0.128 3.762
11m ap 10 Charles Levesque White 1500 29.145 0.218 3.980
12m fsae 175 Tyler Feralio RPI 29.155 0.010 3.990
13m f125 159 Paul Bowin Silver Sprint 29.370 0.215 4.205
14m sm 3 Chris Hartman Silver STI 29.454 0.084 4.289
15m ss 19 Matt Murray Red Carerra 29.664 0.210 4.499
---
Basically, top time for a non Mod or Prep car. The course was fairly tight too.
Chris H.
| Scooby South | 02-21-2005 11:31 AM |
looking at a couple of events and the Nationals from last year heres the #'s
Fort Meyer
SS. 95.6
AS. 95.9
BS. 94.5
ASP.91.8
ESP. 95.2
SM. 98.1
Peru:
SS. 117.9
AS. 122.4
BS. 120.2
ASP. 117.1
ESP. 119.1
SM. 119.8
Nationals:
SS. 93.3
AS. 98.4
BS. 97.8
ASP. 93.2
ESP. 97.2
SM. 95.6
Interesting stats....I did Beat Ian Stewart too..:)
Fort Meyer
SS. 95.6
AS. 95.9
BS. 94.5
ASP.91.8
ESP. 95.2
SM. 98.1
Peru:
SS. 117.9
AS. 122.4
BS. 120.2
ASP. 117.1
ESP. 119.1
SM. 119.8
Nationals:
SS. 93.3
AS. 98.4
BS. 97.8
ASP. 93.2
ESP. 97.2
SM. 95.6
Interesting stats....I did Beat Ian Stewart too..:)
| Scooby South | 02-22-2005 03:06 PM |
no one else???
Bill
Bill
| Fred | 02-22-2005 08:32 PM |
I'll be trying out my wagon with a somewhat weak ESP setup this weekend. THSCC test & tune at Laurinburg - the HUGE airport with lots of grippy concrete. :)
It's going to be Prodrive/Koni, 20mm rear bar, endlinks, kca375's, front crash bolts & much camber, and 225/50/16 RA-1's on stock 01 2.5RS wheels. Otherwise stock.
I expect that I'll set FTD... if it rains. :lol:
Actually, I'm just hoping to be a second faster than all the STi's - two of them are good drivers, but they're on STU tires.
It's going to be Prodrive/Koni, 20mm rear bar, endlinks, kca375's, front crash bolts & much camber, and 225/50/16 RA-1's on stock 01 2.5RS wheels. Otherwise stock.
I expect that I'll set FTD... if it rains. :lol:
Actually, I'm just hoping to be a second faster than all the STi's - two of them are good drivers, but they're on STU tires.
| ingrahamm | 02-23-2005 12:59 PM |
perhaps I'll have a chance to cross swords with you, Fred.
I am also about to go with a weak ESP setup on the STi. Prodrives, camber bolts, and a big, fat rear sway. V700s on OEM wheels.
I'm running the blue ridge event in Lynchburg this weekend, though.
I am also about to go with a weak ESP setup on the STi. Prodrives, camber bolts, and a big, fat rear sway. V700s on OEM wheels.
I'm running the blue ridge event in Lynchburg this weekend, though.
| Fred | 02-23-2005 01:16 PM |
Were you one of the STi drivers at the NASA autox in December? I was in the CGM WRX wagon there.
| ingrahamm | 02-23-2005 01:59 PM |
I was borrowing cars then--IIRC I co-drove Rod McGeorge's car at that event (ESP STi but on streets). Ran within .7 of him IIRC. OTOH I may also have been driving an FP 240Z at that event--I can't remember which one I drove at that event.
| dowroa | 02-24-2005 08:47 AM |
[QUOTE=Fred]I'll be trying out my wagon with a somewhat weak ESP setup this weekend. THSCC test & tune at Laurinburg - the HUGE airport with lots of grippy concrete. :)
It's going to be Prodrive/Koni, 20mm rear bar, endlinks, kca375's, front crash bolts & much camber, and 225/50/16 RA-1's on stock 01 2.5RS wheels. Otherwise stock.
I expect that I'll set FTD... if it rains. :lol:
Actually, I'm just hoping to be a second faster than all the STi's - two of them are good drivers, but they're on STU tires.[/QUOTE]
* subscribe
It's going to be Prodrive/Koni, 20mm rear bar, endlinks, kca375's, front crash bolts & much camber, and 225/50/16 RA-1's on stock 01 2.5RS wheels. Otherwise stock.
I expect that I'll set FTD... if it rains. :lol:
Actually, I'm just hoping to be a second faster than all the STi's - two of them are good drivers, but they're on STU tires.[/QUOTE]
* subscribe
| mx_9 | 02-24-2005 09:01 AM |
[QUOTE=dowroa]* subscribe[/QUOTE]
12345 DITTO 12345
12345 DITTO 12345
| Draken | 02-24-2005 09:19 AM |
I'm not sure this thread is going to be whipping along at a furious pace quite yet. Most of the ESP drivers from last year that ran nationals, were basically STU guys who threw on Hooseirs or V710 Kumhos. I know that both Kikoo and myself had legal STU cars, with minimal time on our race tires. Hell, I ran all of three 30 second runs (those posted above) on my Hoosiers before going to nationals. I had never driven my car on concrete, let alone with Hoosiers on concrete. That's what hurt me on first day's runs...I was fighting a loose condition and inexperience. Managed some quick and clean runs on second day,clean being the key words.
Maybe Joel or Hoppe will jump in with some new ESP setup info. Here is/was my setup for nationals:
2004 STi
Stone Mountain Racing Headers (bought used and cheap off a friend)
HKS catless downpipe
Tanabe something something ricer exhaust (bought used and cheap off a friend)
Injen Intake (traded for a 12-pack of beer)
Tein Flex coilovers (10K front 8K rear rates)
22mm front cusco anti-roll bar
20-24mm rear cusco rear anti-roll bar
Cheap ass free STi replica strut tower bars
Enkei RFP1 17x8 wheels (purchased for use with 245 azenis for stu)
275/40-17 Hoosiers
Other then that...stock seats, battery, added stereo with speakers and amp. My car weighed 3,108# at nationals, and my driveway corner-weight setup was damn near perfect.
Hope this proves useful to someone.
Chris H.
[url]www.subrew.com[/url]
Maybe Joel or Hoppe will jump in with some new ESP setup info. Here is/was my setup for nationals:
2004 STi
Stone Mountain Racing Headers (bought used and cheap off a friend)
HKS catless downpipe
Tanabe something something ricer exhaust (bought used and cheap off a friend)
Injen Intake (traded for a 12-pack of beer)
Tein Flex coilovers (10K front 8K rear rates)
22mm front cusco anti-roll bar
20-24mm rear cusco rear anti-roll bar
Cheap ass free STi replica strut tower bars
Enkei RFP1 17x8 wheels (purchased for use with 245 azenis for stu)
275/40-17 Hoosiers
Other then that...stock seats, battery, added stereo with speakers and amp. My car weighed 3,108# at nationals, and my driveway corner-weight setup was damn near perfect.
Hope this proves useful to someone.
Chris H.
[url]www.subrew.com[/url]
| Scooby South | 02-24-2005 09:43 AM |
I was 1.4 secs faster than a STu BMW *Ian Stewart*...and 1.9 Secs faster that a WELL prepped STi with 245 MX's, coilovers, and some other things...I know alot of it is tires..I have a friend that shot my runs from the sidelines....my car was NOT smooth at all...transitions sucked, Dive and lift sucked...The only good things were the tires...
1/3 worn Hoosiers...303 compound...once my suspension goes in....I expect it to be a whole lot better...gonna stick with the stock bars for now...just to guage the "one mod at a time thing"...Car was fast enough...so I don't plan on any other Motor stuff cept a inlet pipe...
With some of the cars competing in ESP...(cobra's, Camaro's, Supra's, Twin Z's.) I hope to run with them... One thing I did learn for sure was that more power makes the car more twitchy...when applying said HP...especially coming off the corners...apply the power...( matting the gas)...like I did in my RS...results in a squirrely rear end...I am hoping that the suspension takes care of most of that....
Dow...You running ESP Also????
Bill
1/3 worn Hoosiers...303 compound...once my suspension goes in....I expect it to be a whole lot better...gonna stick with the stock bars for now...just to guage the "one mod at a time thing"...Car was fast enough...so I don't plan on any other Motor stuff cept a inlet pipe...
With some of the cars competing in ESP...(cobra's, Camaro's, Supra's, Twin Z's.) I hope to run with them... One thing I did learn for sure was that more power makes the car more twitchy...when applying said HP...especially coming off the corners...apply the power...( matting the gas)...like I did in my RS...results in a squirrely rear end...I am hoping that the suspension takes care of most of that....
Dow...You running ESP Also????
Bill
| Scooby South | 02-24-2005 09:55 AM |
my setup is/will be:
Catless TBE
Prototype intake....which caused a CEL now replaced by a [email�protected] typhoon system
LW Pullys
Inlet pipe coming
suspension:
Rear strut bar
D2 D/A coilovers with front and rear plates 6,7 8 and 10 springs...
Swaybars if needed.
Energy Bushings
SS lines
Motul RBF600
17x9 5 Zigen wheels
275x40x17 711's or 295's...we'll see
thats about it.
theres lots more I can do...but I don't think it will be necessary....YET..
Depends on how bad I get my hindend stomped with what I got...
I thought about a ECU reflash...don't think I am even going to touch it...till I see where the car and I stand...With current motor stuff...I am getting *Stock boost* up to 16 psi with no modification at all...
Guess we'll see...
Bill
Catless TBE
Prototype intake....which caused a CEL now replaced by a [email�protected] typhoon system
LW Pullys
Inlet pipe coming
suspension:
Rear strut bar
D2 D/A coilovers with front and rear plates 6,7 8 and 10 springs...
Swaybars if needed.
Energy Bushings
SS lines
Motul RBF600
17x9 5 Zigen wheels
275x40x17 711's or 295's...we'll see
thats about it.
theres lots more I can do...but I don't think it will be necessary....YET..
Depends on how bad I get my hindend stomped with what I got...
I thought about a ECU reflash...don't think I am even going to touch it...till I see where the car and I stand...With current motor stuff...I am getting *Stock boost* up to 16 psi with no modification at all...
Guess we'll see...
Bill
| Corey | 02-24-2005 10:15 AM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]I was 1.4 secs faster than a STu BMW *Ian Stewart*...and 1.9 Secs faster that a WELL prepped STi with 245 MX's, coilovers, and some other things...
Bill[/QUOTE]
Links please... Not that I don't believe you, but if you quote results, you gotta link em' so we can get a bigger picture of the story.
Corey #89 STS
Bill[/QUOTE]
Links please... Not that I don't believe you, but if you quote results, you gotta link em' so we can get a bigger picture of the story.
Corey #89 STS
| Scooby South | 02-24-2005 10:25 AM |
[QUOTE=Corey]Links please... Not that I don't believe you, but if you quote results, you gotta link em' so we can get a bigger picture of the story.
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
OK...will do as soon as CFR posts them...;)...
They will be [URL=http://www.cfrsolo2.com/2005/index.html]HERE[/URL] once they are posted
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
OK...will do as soon as CFR posts them...;)...
They will be [URL=http://www.cfrsolo2.com/2005/index.html]HERE[/URL] once they are posted
| Fred | 02-24-2005 10:36 AM |
[QUOTE]* subscribe[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm basing my projections off being a second slower with my WRX than Courtney was in Rod's STi at VMP. Courtney > than dowroa, and R compounds > RE070's, so if I'm not a second faster than you with my R compounds, I'll be very disappointed. :)
(No offense intended)
Well, I'm basing my projections off being a second slower with my WRX than Courtney was in Rod's STi at VMP. Courtney > than dowroa, and R compounds > RE070's, so if I'm not a second faster than you with my R compounds, I'll be very disappointed. :)
(No offense intended)
| dowroa | 02-24-2005 11:56 AM |
Hope you like disappointment....
(No offense intended)
[quote]Dow...You running ESP Also????[/quote]
Due to the overwhelming local population being in ESP as well, yes, but I am prepped for STU, not ESP (read: Not R-compound love).
- dow
(No offense intended)
[quote]Dow...You running ESP Also????[/quote]
Due to the overwhelming local population being in ESP as well, yes, but I am prepped for STU, not ESP (read: Not R-compound love).
- dow
| trhoppe | 02-24-2005 12:06 PM |
Wow, look at Fred getting a little cocky! Do I need to come back up to NC and whoop your ass again? :lol: :lol: :devil:
-Tom
-Tom
| Scooby South | 02-24-2005 12:17 PM |
DAYAUM....Tom throwing it down to poor Kevin...Just for S and G's....I will pull for Kevin..;)...
Besides that...I hear your not even going to play in AutoX this year...;)..
coughspecmiatacough
Bill
Besides that...I hear your not even going to play in AutoX this year...;)..
coughspecmiatacough
Bill
| Fred | 02-24-2005 12:23 PM |
Well, if Tom was going to show up at the test&tune, and he was running a "real" ESP STi including R compounds, my goal would = to be within 2 seconds of him.
:lol:
Maybe I have unrealistic expectations of what the wagon can do with RA-1's, but I guess we'll see on Sunday... :p
Oh, btw, one of Tom's goals last year was to FTPAX by over a second at all the local events. So don't call me cocky, beach! :p As far as whooping my ass, bring it - as long as we're co-driving the same car.
:lol:
Maybe I have unrealistic expectations of what the wagon can do with RA-1's, but I guess we'll see on Sunday... :p
Oh, btw, one of Tom's goals last year was to FTPAX by over a second at all the local events. So don't call me cocky, beach! :p As far as whooping my ass, bring it - as long as we're co-driving the same car.
| Scooby South | 02-24-2005 12:28 PM |
:eek: :eek: :lol: :lol: :p :p :D :D
| Fred | 02-24-2005 12:34 PM |
Also wanted to clarify - if dowroa was on R compounds, I'd be hoping to be WITHIN A SECOND of him, not a second AHEAD of him. :)
| trhoppe | 02-24-2005 01:06 PM |
:lol: Just givin you **** there chief ;)
When is the TNT again? If I get some fun runs, I might just make the drive out there.
Bill, the rumor mill is churning, but not exactly correct ;)
-Tom
who is cocky and won't deny it
When is the TNT again? If I get some fun runs, I might just make the drive out there.
Bill, the rumor mill is churning, but not exactly correct ;)
-Tom
who is cocky and won't deny it
| dowroa | 02-24-2005 01:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred]Also wanted to clarify - if dowroa was on R compounds, I'd be hoping to be WITHIN A SECOND of him, not a second AHEAD of him. :)[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter to me either way if you are on R-compounds or not. :)
You PAX reign has ended!
- dow
* - Member of the elitest bastards autoX org since 2002.
Doesn't matter to me either way if you are on R-compounds or not. :)
You PAX reign has ended!
- dow
* - Member of the elitest bastards autoX org since 2002.
| DrBiggly | 02-24-2005 01:30 PM |
I have to remember to send in my Tarheel membership dues for '05; I keep forgetting.
Do they have PayPal online for that somewhere?
Do they have PayPal online for that somewhere?
| Draken | 02-24-2005 01:31 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]
-Tom
who is cocky and won't deny it[/QUOTE]
I heard its gonna be the fastest FSP VW Jetta III on the planet. With illegal brake shields to boot!
Stickboy
-Tom
who is cocky and won't deny it[/QUOTE]
I heard its gonna be the fastest FSP VW Jetta III on the planet. With illegal brake shields to boot!
Stickboy
| Scooby South | 02-24-2005 01:39 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]I heard its gonna be the fastest FSP VW Jetta III on the planet. With illegal brake shields to boot!
Stickboy[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :eek: :lol: :lol:
Maybe him and KC are co-driving the BUGGY...;)
Bill
Stickboy[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :eek: :lol: :lol:
Maybe him and KC are co-driving the BUGGY...;)
Bill
| trhoppe | 02-24-2005 02:19 PM |
[quote]I have to remember to send in my Tarheel membership dues for '05; I keep forgetting.[/quote] Yea, thats what I said for 04 as well :lol:
-Tom
-Tom
| AUTOwrXER | 02-24-2005 02:52 PM |
Bill,
We talked about some of the setup already. Here's a good part of it (save for a few experimental things I'm trying), which will later be published:
Suspension
Advance Design double adjustable coilovers with custom valving
Firm front springs
Very firm rear springs
Stock front swaybar
Rear sway bar and mounts deleted
High-durometer suspension bushings
Performance alignment (parameters change based on tire selection and course configuration)
Engine
UTEC engine management system w/ multiple fuel maps (boost control bypassed in wiring harness)
GP Moto 2-piece header with Jet Hot coating
Turbo XS turbo back exhaust with 4� bellmouth downpipe and 3� piping throughout (catless)
Unorthodox Racing lightweight underdrive engine pulleys
Turbo XS �shorty� air intake
Aquamist water injection system
Drivetrain
Prototype rear differential with clutch-type pre loading
Spec Stage 3 clutch
Spec lightweight flywheel
High-durometer differential support bushings
STi severe duty transmission mount
High-durometer gearbox cross-member bushings
Wheels/Tires
CCW 18�x10.5� wheels with Hoosier A3SO4 285/30/18 tires for dry conditions
Volk TE37 17�x8.5� wheels with Hoosier Wet Radial 245/40/17 tires for wet conditions
Brakes
Goodrich stainless steel brake lines
Carbotech Panther Plus brake pads
Castrol SRF brake fluid
Speed Bleeders
Other
Bumper and fender modifications to accommodate large tires
Upgraded fuel pump
Braille lightweight battery
Lightweight Corbeau racing seats (driver and passenger side)
Sparco steering wheel
Regards,
Joel
We talked about some of the setup already. Here's a good part of it (save for a few experimental things I'm trying), which will later be published:
Suspension
Advance Design double adjustable coilovers with custom valving
Firm front springs
Very firm rear springs
Stock front swaybar
Rear sway bar and mounts deleted
High-durometer suspension bushings
Performance alignment (parameters change based on tire selection and course configuration)
Engine
UTEC engine management system w/ multiple fuel maps (boost control bypassed in wiring harness)
GP Moto 2-piece header with Jet Hot coating
Turbo XS turbo back exhaust with 4� bellmouth downpipe and 3� piping throughout (catless)
Unorthodox Racing lightweight underdrive engine pulleys
Turbo XS �shorty� air intake
Aquamist water injection system
Drivetrain
Prototype rear differential with clutch-type pre loading
Spec Stage 3 clutch
Spec lightweight flywheel
High-durometer differential support bushings
STi severe duty transmission mount
High-durometer gearbox cross-member bushings
Wheels/Tires
CCW 18�x10.5� wheels with Hoosier A3SO4 285/30/18 tires for dry conditions
Volk TE37 17�x8.5� wheels with Hoosier Wet Radial 245/40/17 tires for wet conditions
Brakes
Goodrich stainless steel brake lines
Carbotech Panther Plus brake pads
Castrol SRF brake fluid
Speed Bleeders
Other
Bumper and fender modifications to accommodate large tires
Upgraded fuel pump
Braille lightweight battery
Lightweight Corbeau racing seats (driver and passenger side)
Sparco steering wheel
Regards,
Joel
| dwx | 02-24-2005 02:55 PM |
How do you like the Spec lightweight flywheel? I've been looking at flywheels for my SM car, and didn't want to go with the Fidanza 9.5 lb one. The Spec I think is 10.5 and the Unorthodox Racing one is 11.5, I was trying to decide between those two.
| trhoppe | 02-24-2005 02:56 PM |
I don't think the car has moved since the clutch/flywheel went in :lol: Correct me if I'm wrong.
We were going with the UR unit, but either way, I'm a little hesitant about a lightweight flywheel in the car. Should make launching even more of a PITA.
-Tom
We were going with the UR unit, but either way, I'm a little hesitant about a lightweight flywheel in the car. Should make launching even more of a PITA.
-Tom
| dwx | 02-24-2005 03:02 PM |
That's why I don't want to go too light. Last year I used the STI 6MT flywheel, which is 15.8 lbs versus the stock JDM 6MT one which is around 19.5. But that's meant to be used with a 2L engine. I'm selling that 6MT one for cheap if anyone wants it, $150 plus shipping, about 10k miles of use, babied of course. :)
Right now the UR one at 11.5 seems to be the best bet but it's about $100 more than the SPEC one. I know exedy uses them in their clutch setups, but they don't seem to sell them seperately.
Right now the UR one at 11.5 seems to be the best bet but it's about $100 more than the SPEC one. I know exedy uses them in their clutch setups, but they don't seem to sell them seperately.
| AUTOwrXER | 02-24-2005 04:31 PM |
The car has been on jack stands since we put the clutch and flywheel in. I should be able to give you a good review after March 12th and 13th, however. They are good looking pieces, FWIW.
| Scooby South | 02-25-2005 12:06 PM |
Thanks Joel...preciate it...
water injection....wow ...hardcore...
since this is my daily driver...I guess I will have to suffer for some things...(not going extreme on motor...)....so I will be down 30hp or so...
Bill
water injection....wow ...hardcore...
since this is my daily driver...I guess I will have to suffer for some things...(not going extreme on motor...)....so I will be down 30hp or so...
Bill
| dowroa | 02-27-2005 09:05 PM |
[quote=Fred]Well, I'm basing my projections off being a second slower with my WRX than Courtney was in Rod's STi at VMP. Courtney > than dowroa, and R compounds > RE070's, so if I'm not a second faster than you with my R compounds, I'll be very disappointed.
(No offense intended)[/quote]
So, how disappointed were you?
:D
I may be a scrub, but I am a fast scrub ;)
"It's mostly the car." I agree :)
- dow
(No offense intended)[/quote]
So, how disappointed were you?
:D
I may be a scrub, but I am a fast scrub ;)
"It's mostly the car." I agree :)
- dow
| Got Pink? | 02-27-2005 11:21 PM |
Interesting sway bar choices, I guess with much firmer than stock springs stiff sways are not needed and can cause inside rear wheel lifting?
Also no group n engine mounts you listed other bushings in there but not any engine mounts so are they worth the hassle?
Overall your parts list makes me grateful that STU exists in my region and will hopefully be a national class sometime in the future when I am hopefully good enough to care.
So if i am going with coilovers for STU should I wait on sways until after i run with the coilovers and find out how it handles?
Thanks,
Nate
Also no group n engine mounts you listed other bushings in there but not any engine mounts so are they worth the hassle?
Overall your parts list makes me grateful that STU exists in my region and will hopefully be a national class sometime in the future when I am hopefully good enough to care.
So if i am going with coilovers for STU should I wait on sways until after i run with the coilovers and find out how it handles?
Thanks,
Nate
| DrBiggly | 02-28-2005 01:07 AM |
Nate,
You've got it all backwards as to what helps and why. Get the sways first and then worry about the coilovers or stiffer springs. Who cares if in a super-fast transition you lift an inside rear wheel? It matters not. :)
You've got it all backwards as to what helps and why. Get the sways first and then worry about the coilovers or stiffer springs. Who cares if in a super-fast transition you lift an inside rear wheel? It matters not. :)
| wrx2.0 555 | 02-28-2005 06:09 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Nate,
You've got it all backwards as to what helps and why. Get the sways first and then worry about the coilovers or stiffer springs. Who cares if in a super-fast transition you lift an inside rear wheel? It matters not. :)[/QUOTE]
I beg to differ...................[I]and so would Superman[/I] ;)
You've got it all backwards as to what helps and why. Get the sways first and then worry about the coilovers or stiffer springs. Who cares if in a super-fast transition you lift an inside rear wheel? It matters not. :)[/QUOTE]
I beg to differ...................[I]and so would Superman[/I] ;)
| dwx | 02-28-2005 09:04 AM |
I'd agree with doing the swaybars on the WRX because it doesn't really matter a whole lot, but the STI does some strange stuff sometimes when you try and get back on the gas with one of the rear wheels in the air.
| Scooby South | 02-28-2005 09:12 AM |
k...my results are up...
[URL=http://www.cfrsolo2.com/2005/gir-02-20-2005-recon_fin_.htm]results here[/URL]
Ian Stewart was in a S2000...running STu.. difference was only .5 secs..and Ken Marion was FTD ..not Gary Mease...
so I was 6th OA...and 9th in pax ....still not to shabby IMO considering the only suspension mod I have is a Rear Strut bar, Eibach Pro's and Hoosiers...
God I can't wait to get my suspension...:D
Bill
[URL=http://www.cfrsolo2.com/2005/gir-02-20-2005-recon_fin_.htm]results here[/URL]
Ian Stewart was in a S2000...running STu.. difference was only .5 secs..and Ken Marion was FTD ..not Gary Mease...
so I was 6th OA...and 9th in pax ....still not to shabby IMO considering the only suspension mod I have is a Rear Strut bar, Eibach Pro's and Hoosiers...
God I can't wait to get my suspension...:D
Bill
| Fred | 02-28-2005 09:21 AM |
I was pretty disappointed - in the tires, not the fun factor of the car. :eek: (the more experienced guys did a lot of high-speed drifting & playing this weekend - we actually had a guy giving scores for style :lol: )
Can't remember if dowroa got a clean run, but with slightly-dirty runs in the full course & the timed slalom (start, accelerate, slalom, offset, pivot, offset, back through slalom & accelerate to finish), his raw times were a second faster in the STi with RE070's than the WRX wagon's clean runs with RA-1's. Comparing them on setup day, I could tell a LITTLE difference between RE070's & RA-1's, but it wasn't a holy shiite-type difference. The street tires were easier to drift through the slower corners, though - with the RA-1's a few times I ended up drifting through the dirt on the edge of the taxiway before continuing the course. :lol: (so did dowroa - wish I could've seen me, because his was sweet)
There was a LOT of full-throttle acceleration on these elements, though - I was at top of 2nd gear a lot & he was in 3rd & 4th gear. :eek: On a tighter, more driver-oriented course I think the times would've been about even. Or if the wagon wasn't completely stock-powered, I might've been able to drop most of a second on acceleration.
I think I'm going to save the free RA-1's for playing at the schools and test & tunes, and just run STX. :cool:
The STi is definitely nothing to trifle with... :lol:
Can't remember if dowroa got a clean run, but with slightly-dirty runs in the full course & the timed slalom (start, accelerate, slalom, offset, pivot, offset, back through slalom & accelerate to finish), his raw times were a second faster in the STi with RE070's than the WRX wagon's clean runs with RA-1's. Comparing them on setup day, I could tell a LITTLE difference between RE070's & RA-1's, but it wasn't a holy shiite-type difference. The street tires were easier to drift through the slower corners, though - with the RA-1's a few times I ended up drifting through the dirt on the edge of the taxiway before continuing the course. :lol: (so did dowroa - wish I could've seen me, because his was sweet)
There was a LOT of full-throttle acceleration on these elements, though - I was at top of 2nd gear a lot & he was in 3rd & 4th gear. :eek: On a tighter, more driver-oriented course I think the times would've been about even. Or if the wagon wasn't completely stock-powered, I might've been able to drop most of a second on acceleration.
I think I'm going to save the free RA-1's for playing at the schools and test & tunes, and just run STX. :cool:
The STi is definitely nothing to trifle with... :lol:
| Fred | 02-28-2005 09:33 AM |
One more thing - I noticed that dowroa has become a lot less smooth in the STi than he was in the WRX. Back when he had the STX WRX he was very smooth & really made the course flow. Does the STi reward smoothness, or does it not really matter? Even on the "choppy" run through the slalom when I rode with him, he was still very fast.
I remember when I drove his car at a previous autox (after driving my 2.5RS all day) it was hard as Hell to control when I used my 2.5RS driving style. Is there a really fine line that you have to walk when driving the STi, or is it one of those things where once you get used to it, it's pretty easy & you can be smooth again?
I remember when I drove his car at a previous autox (after driving my 2.5RS all day) it was hard as Hell to control when I used my 2.5RS driving style. Is there a really fine line that you have to walk when driving the STi, or is it one of those things where once you get used to it, it's pretty easy & you can be smooth again?
| DrBiggly | 02-28-2005 09:58 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]I'd agree with doing the swaybars on the WRX because it doesn't really matter a whole lot, but the STI does some strange stuff sometimes when you try and get back on the gas with one of the rear wheels in the air.[/QUOTE]
Ah, I missed the whole STi bit. :o
Ah, I missed the whole STi bit. :o
| wrx2.0 555 | 02-28-2005 10:13 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Ah, I missed the whole STi bit. :o[/QUOTE]
Mine and MK's are/were WRX's and I stick to my previous comment. ;)
Biggly...Do you really think sways are necessary when running such high spring rates?
Scott
Mine and MK's are/were WRX's and I stick to my previous comment. ;)
Biggly...Do you really think sways are necessary when running such high spring rates?
Scott
| Scooby South | 02-28-2005 10:20 AM |
[QUOTE=Fred]One more thing - I noticed that dowroa has become a lot less smooth in the STi than he was in the WRX. Back when he had the STX WRX he was very smooth & really made the course flow. Does the STi reward smoothness, or does it not really matter? Even on the "choppy" run through the slalom when I rode with him, he was still very fast.
I remember when I drove his car at a previous autox (after driving my 2.5RS all day) it was hard as Hell to control when I used my 2.5RS driving style. Is there a really fine line that you have to walk when driving the STi, or is it one of those things where once you get used to it, it's pretty easy & you can be smooth again?[/QUOTE]
I am sure that running smooth on the STi would be rewarded...From what I can tell The STi is way more choppy than my RS...Power factor plays a Big part of this...once you learn to be smooth in the STi ...I am sure it will be even faster....the power delivery is imediate so timing is different than a RS or WRX...which results in Faster times yes...But with all the things going on, on the STi ...Diffs.. Better Brakes...it will just take some (seat)time to sort..the STi doesn't transition like my RS did for sure...so theres a learning curve...so Kevin..to answer your question....Yes..;)
Bill
I remember when I drove his car at a previous autox (after driving my 2.5RS all day) it was hard as Hell to control when I used my 2.5RS driving style. Is there a really fine line that you have to walk when driving the STi, or is it one of those things where once you get used to it, it's pretty easy & you can be smooth again?[/QUOTE]
I am sure that running smooth on the STi would be rewarded...From what I can tell The STi is way more choppy than my RS...Power factor plays a Big part of this...once you learn to be smooth in the STi ...I am sure it will be even faster....the power delivery is imediate so timing is different than a RS or WRX...which results in Faster times yes...But with all the things going on, on the STi ...Diffs.. Better Brakes...it will just take some (seat)time to sort..the STi doesn't transition like my RS did for sure...so theres a learning curve...so Kevin..to answer your question....Yes..;)
Bill
| CamaroFS34 | 02-28-2005 10:20 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]...the STI does some strange stuff sometimes when you try and get back on the gas with one of the rear wheels in the air.[/QUOTE]
I can attest to that! (and so can a timer :eek:)
Karen
:cool:
I can attest to that! (and so can a timer :eek:)
Karen
:cool:
| KC | 02-28-2005 10:22 AM |
[QUOTE=Fred]One more thing - I noticed that dowroa has become a lot less smooth in the STi than he was in the WRX. Back when he had the STX WRX he was very smooth & really made the course flow. Does the STi reward smoothness, or does it not really matter? Even on the "choppy" run through the slalom when I rode with him, he was still very fast.
I remember when I drove his car at a previous autox (after driving my 2.5RS all day) it was hard as Hell to control when I used my 2.5RS driving style. Is there a really fine line that you have to walk when driving the STi, or is it one of those things where once you get used to it, it's pretty easy & you can be smooth again?[/QUOTE]
Not really haven driven an STi on an auto-x, I would say, as a whole, the smoother you drive a car, the faster you'll be. Choppiness comes from trying to react to the car, as in it does things you weren't expecting. Seat time will cure that. :)
--kC
I remember when I drove his car at a previous autox (after driving my 2.5RS all day) it was hard as Hell to control when I used my 2.5RS driving style. Is there a really fine line that you have to walk when driving the STi, or is it one of those things where once you get used to it, it's pretty easy & you can be smooth again?[/QUOTE]
Not really haven driven an STi on an auto-x, I would say, as a whole, the smoother you drive a car, the faster you'll be. Choppiness comes from trying to react to the car, as in it does things you weren't expecting. Seat time will cure that. :)
--kC
| Draken | 02-28-2005 10:29 AM |
I actually ran with my rear bar disconnected (ESP '04 STi) on the second day at nats, trying to overcome some problems assocciated with inside rear wheel lifting. Helped take away quite a bit of on throttle jerkiness. I actually found a better setup for my liking, without the rear bar, and a touch of toe-out in the rear. Similar overall balance, slightly different feel.
Chris H.
Chris H.
| DrBiggly | 02-28-2005 10:36 AM |
[QUOTE=wrx2.0 555]Mine and MK's are/were WRX's and I stick to my previous comment. ;)
Biggly...Do you really think sways are necessary when running such high spring rates?
Scott[/QUOTE]
Define "high rates." I was aiming for advice based on a novice-style post. The post sounded like that of one of the latest in quite a bumper crop of coilover fanboys so that's how I was approaching it.
If my springs would ever come in, I would definitely change my setup. However, they still aren't in and I am still waiting. Not that it matters a whole lot as I only have 2 or 3 events this year to tackle and one of them is this coming weekend.
Biggly...Do you really think sways are necessary when running such high spring rates?
Scott[/QUOTE]
Define "high rates." I was aiming for advice based on a novice-style post. The post sounded like that of one of the latest in quite a bumper crop of coilover fanboys so that's how I was approaching it.
If my springs would ever come in, I would definitely change my setup. However, they still aren't in and I am still waiting. Not that it matters a whole lot as I only have 2 or 3 events this year to tackle and one of them is this coming weekend.
| Got Pink? | 02-28-2005 11:14 AM |
I am not a novice coilover fanboy but I understand there is a lot of that around here, I have been autoxing frequently since I bought my STi in august and occassionally before that occassionally in a miata while i was in college. I had koni yellows on the miata and from the first autox in my STi i hated how I no longer had the means to adjust the car with more than just tire pressure. If the STi was competitive in AS and there were off the shelf konis or similar shocks available i would be there but that is not the case so naturally coilovers are a must if you want to be able to adjust dampers. I am not the best driver yet but I am getting better quickly with more seat time and hopefully a few evo schools in the spring. So I did not want to buy sway bars now and then have them not work well with coilovers setup for autox. I am considering KW V3, Advance Design and Koni DA(custom) as I am interested in a real autox setup.
Thanks,
Nate
Thanks,
Nate
| wrx2.0 555 | 02-28-2005 11:30 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Define "high rates." I was aiming for advice based on a novice-style post. The post sounded like that of one of the latest in quite a bumper crop of coilover fanboys so that's how I was approaching it.
If my springs would ever come in, I would definitely change my setup. However, they still aren't in and I am still waiting. Not that it matters a whole lot as I only have 2 or 3 events this year to tackle and one of them is this coming weekend.[/QUOTE]
I wasnt implying anything...dont take offense...It was more or less just a general question...
Scott
If my springs would ever come in, I would definitely change my setup. However, they still aren't in and I am still waiting. Not that it matters a whole lot as I only have 2 or 3 events this year to tackle and one of them is this coming weekend.[/QUOTE]
I wasnt implying anything...dont take offense...It was more or less just a general question...
Scott
| DrBiggly | 02-28-2005 11:57 AM |
Nate,
Glad to know that you're not one of those! Guess I've been answering too many n00b questions in the Suspension forum for too long. My apologies; I shouldn't have assumed so much. :o
It depends on just where you want to go with your suspension as to what I'd do with bars vs. coilovers; some folks prefer a little more bar than others but the general trend that I've seen for current development is something along the lines of this:
Big-medium front bar
Stock or removed rear bar
Stiff front springs
Very stiff rear springs
Whereas before the general concensus was to have a little less spring and a good bit more bar (especially in the rear) it seems now as though folks are finding a better setup with a very minimal amount of rear bar. Why? I have no clue but it's definitely something I intend to test myself.
There are still those that prefer a softer coilover that's more streetable than a serious autox setup and just compensate that with bigger bars in order to deal with the car better on a day-to-day basis and still keep body roll (and more importantly camber change) in check. It's really more about deciding just how dedicated you really want to be for autox vs. your daily driving; it's how you want to use your vehicle. :)
(Scott, not offended; I just didn't put as smiley in there like usual.) :)
Glad to know that you're not one of those! Guess I've been answering too many n00b questions in the Suspension forum for too long. My apologies; I shouldn't have assumed so much. :o
It depends on just where you want to go with your suspension as to what I'd do with bars vs. coilovers; some folks prefer a little more bar than others but the general trend that I've seen for current development is something along the lines of this:
Big-medium front bar
Stock or removed rear bar
Stiff front springs
Very stiff rear springs
Whereas before the general concensus was to have a little less spring and a good bit more bar (especially in the rear) it seems now as though folks are finding a better setup with a very minimal amount of rear bar. Why? I have no clue but it's definitely something I intend to test myself.
There are still those that prefer a softer coilover that's more streetable than a serious autox setup and just compensate that with bigger bars in order to deal with the car better on a day-to-day basis and still keep body roll (and more importantly camber change) in check. It's really more about deciding just how dedicated you really want to be for autox vs. your daily driving; it's how you want to use your vehicle. :)
(Scott, not offended; I just didn't put as smiley in there like usual.) :)
| trhoppe | 02-28-2005 12:02 PM |
I bet an 05 STi driven right could win AS.
From my experience its harder to be smoother with an STi then a WRX because everything happens so much faster. In Miranda's STi, once you get on the gas, the car just tears ass out of the corner and "feels" jerky since it throws you into the seat.
Also with the STi, the car is doing a lot for you with the diff. It almost feels as if the car is driving itself and you are just along for the ride :)
-Tom
From my experience its harder to be smoother with an STi then a WRX because everything happens so much faster. In Miranda's STi, once you get on the gas, the car just tears ass out of the corner and "feels" jerky since it throws you into the seat.
Also with the STi, the car is doing a lot for you with the diff. It almost feels as if the car is driving itself and you are just along for the ride :)
-Tom
| Draken | 02-28-2005 12:08 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]
Whereas before the general concensus was to have a little less spring and a good bit more bar (especially in the rear) it seems now as though folks are finding a better setup with a very minimal amount of rear bar. Why? I have no clue but it's definitely something I intend to test myself.[/QUOTE]
I think it is important that setups for STX WRXs and ESP STis not be confused. The talk of bar sizes and spring rates, imo, will not be shared between the two cars. They are completely different animals.
Again, just my opinion/experience.
Hoppe: in your case, it was just the car doing all the work. You suck.
Chris H.
Whereas before the general concensus was to have a little less spring and a good bit more bar (especially in the rear) it seems now as though folks are finding a better setup with a very minimal amount of rear bar. Why? I have no clue but it's definitely something I intend to test myself.[/QUOTE]
I think it is important that setups for STX WRXs and ESP STis not be confused. The talk of bar sizes and spring rates, imo, will not be shared between the two cars. They are completely different animals.
Again, just my opinion/experience.
Hoppe: in your case, it was just the car doing all the work. You suck.
Chris H.
| zzyzx | 02-28-2005 12:11 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Whereas before the general concensus was to have a little less spring and a good bit more bar (especially in the rear) it seems now as though folks are finding a better setup with a very minimal amount of rear bar. Why? I have no clue but it's definitely something I intend to test myself.
[/QUOTE]
Wheel lift. Plain and simple. It matters not whether it's an STi, WRX or RS.
You simply cannot put 100% of your power to the ground if any one wheel is not on the ground. It kills powering out of the corners.
As KC noted, driving smoother will reward those on concrete with big sticky R-compunds.
Either way, you don't want to be going around corners like this:
[img]http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/images/intro/flsh2.jpg[/img]
Makes for a good picture, though.
- Steve
[/QUOTE]
Wheel lift. Plain and simple. It matters not whether it's an STi, WRX or RS.
You simply cannot put 100% of your power to the ground if any one wheel is not on the ground. It kills powering out of the corners.
As KC noted, driving smoother will reward those on concrete with big sticky R-compunds.
Either way, you don't want to be going around corners like this:
[img]http://zzyzxmotorsports.com/images/intro/flsh2.jpg[/img]
Makes for a good picture, though.
- Steve
| dwx | 02-28-2005 12:16 PM |
Yeah when I first started driving my SM car last year I wasn't sure how the hell I could drive it. It was a completely different car than anything I had driven in autocross because everything happened so fast there was little time to react. I let a couple people drive the car over the course of the year and usually after the first run was over they'd ask "What just happened?"
Now I just want more speed. :)
Steve I thought you didn't use swaybars? Or at least had tried that in the past? I got the Real racing rims with Jay Storm, they are very wide. :)
I installed a Kaaz rear LSD in my car and it made the rear wheel lift less of an issue, but it's still not an optimal thing.
Now I just want more speed. :)
Steve I thought you didn't use swaybars? Or at least had tried that in the past? I got the Real racing rims with Jay Storm, they are very wide. :)
I installed a Kaaz rear LSD in my car and it made the rear wheel lift less of an issue, but it's still not an optimal thing.
| zzyzx | 02-28-2005 12:25 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Steve I thought you didn't use swaybars? Or at least had tried that in the past?
[/quote]
I don't. Haven't for years now. The pic is a good example of lots of grip, minimal rebound damping on the shock [b]and[/b] significant wheel lift. Suffice to say swaybars would only make this worse...
[QUOTE=dwx]
I got the Real racing rims with Jay Storm, they are very wide. :)
[/quote]
No problem. I plan to stay with the 16s at this point.
[QUOTE=dwx]
I installed a Kaaz rear LSD in my car and it made the rear wheel lift less of an issue, but it's still not an optimal thing.[/QUOTE]
PM sent. :)
- Steve
[/quote]
I don't. Haven't for years now. The pic is a good example of lots of grip, minimal rebound damping on the shock [b]and[/b] significant wheel lift. Suffice to say swaybars would only make this worse...
[QUOTE=dwx]
I got the Real racing rims with Jay Storm, they are very wide. :)
[/quote]
No problem. I plan to stay with the 16s at this point.
[QUOTE=dwx]
I installed a Kaaz rear LSD in my car and it made the rear wheel lift less of an issue, but it's still not an optimal thing.[/QUOTE]
PM sent. :)
- Steve
| Got Pink? | 02-28-2005 12:27 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Yeah when I first started driving my SM car last year I wasn't sure how the hell I could drive it. It was a completely different car than anything I had driven in autocross because everything happened so fast there was little time to react. I let a couple people drive the car over the course of the year and usually after the first run was over they'd ask "What just happened?"
Now I just want more speed. :)
Steve I thought you didn't use swaybars? Or at least had tried that in the past? I got the Real racing rims with Jay Storm, they are very wide. :)
I installed a Kaaz rear LSD in my car and it made the rear wheel lift less of an issue, but it's still not an optimal thing.[/QUOTE]
That is how I was switching for a good handling but slow miata to a stock STi last fall. It took a while to get the hang of being able to steer with the throttle and like Tom said it sometimes seems like the car is driving itself and you are just along for the ride! But its a very fun car to autox and now that I am spoiled with plenty of power I just need to make it handle. Maybe I should have stayed in AS but oh well is too late now :)
So what do you guys think of the KW's for an STi?
Now I just want more speed. :)
Steve I thought you didn't use swaybars? Or at least had tried that in the past? I got the Real racing rims with Jay Storm, they are very wide. :)
I installed a Kaaz rear LSD in my car and it made the rear wheel lift less of an issue, but it's still not an optimal thing.[/QUOTE]
That is how I was switching for a good handling but slow miata to a stock STi last fall. It took a while to get the hang of being able to steer with the throttle and like Tom said it sometimes seems like the car is driving itself and you are just along for the ride! But its a very fun car to autox and now that I am spoiled with plenty of power I just need to make it handle. Maybe I should have stayed in AS but oh well is too late now :)
So what do you guys think of the KW's for an STi?
| Scooby South | 02-28-2005 01:07 PM |
[QUOTE=Got Pink?]That is how I was switching for a good handling but slow miata to a stock STi last fall. It took a while to get the hang of being able to steer with the throttle and like Tom said it sometimes seems like the car is driving itself and you are just along for the ride! But its a very fun car to autox and now that I am spoiled with plenty of power I just need to make it handle. Maybe I should have stayed in AS but oh well is too late now :)
So what do you guys think of the KW's for an STi?[/QUOTE]
That my thought too....Definately a different animal...
Bill
So what do you guys think of the KW's for an STi?[/QUOTE]
That my thought too....Definately a different animal...
Bill
| trhoppe | 02-28-2005 01:11 PM |
On a side note, I don't think you will ever be able to prevent rear wheel lift on the impreza. Even if you go with no bar, there is a lot of rebound dampening in the rear shocks and not a lot of droop travel out of a linear rate spring.
-Tom
-Tom
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