| TimStevens | 04-03-2006 09:18 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]I don't really see that as an issue, Schumacher storming off through another teams garage seemed much worse (stealing team secrets comes to mind) to me. I don't see why the marshall wanted to do anything with him anyways since he's out of the race anyways.[/QUOTE]
If it were a one-time thing that'd be something, but he just has an attitude that bugs me. Have you seen the video of him screaming at a photographer after Montoya himself walked into his lens? It reminded me of that.
And given the Schumacher brothers and that their pits are next to each other, I'll bet MS is seen in the Toyota garage quite a bit.
If it were a one-time thing that'd be something, but he just has an attitude that bugs me. Have you seen the video of him screaming at a photographer after Montoya himself walked into his lens? It reminded me of that.
And given the Schumacher brothers and that their pits are next to each other, I'll bet MS is seen in the Toyota garage quite a bit.
| artkevin | 04-03-2006 09:30 AM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]I don't really see that as an issue, Schumacher storming off through another teams garage seemed much worse (stealing team secrets comes to mind) to me. I don't see why the marshall wanted to do anything with him anyways since he's out of the race anyways.[/QUOTE]
That was quite strange. I was thinking the Ralf was already out of the race and MS was going to talk to him. Turns out he just wanted to take a short cut to the loo or something. Strange how the Speed guys didn't say a word about it.
As far as JPM, not the nicest guy, that�s a given. One of the things he said that made me go :confused: was in the pre-race when Windsor asked him about the Merc engines. He said something to the effect of them being not the best but it seems pretty biting.
The camera man situation you brought up Tim is over blown IMO. He got run into/ran himself into a pretty stout piece of equipment. He lost his temper I don't know many guys that wouldn't get at least slightly pissed if the same thing happened to them. He also didn't do anything. He didn't punch they guy, he didn't sure him, he got pissed and his hot wife calmed him down.
That was quite strange. I was thinking the Ralf was already out of the race and MS was going to talk to him. Turns out he just wanted to take a short cut to the loo or something. Strange how the Speed guys didn't say a word about it.
As far as JPM, not the nicest guy, that�s a given. One of the things he said that made me go :confused: was in the pre-race when Windsor asked him about the Merc engines. He said something to the effect of them being not the best but it seems pretty biting.
The camera man situation you brought up Tim is over blown IMO. He got run into/ran himself into a pretty stout piece of equipment. He lost his temper I don't know many guys that wouldn't get at least slightly pissed if the same thing happened to them. He also didn't do anything. He didn't punch they guy, he didn't sure him, he got pissed and his hot wife calmed him down.
| TimStevens | 04-03-2006 09:39 AM |
It wasn't the camera issue or the marshal issue alone, just a lot of little things combined :)
| enduroshark | 04-03-2006 10:01 AM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens]His actions as much as what he says. This weekend the way he was waving off the marshal without looking at him like he was a fly buzzing in his ear, for example.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the marshall said "You suck!"
Maybe the marshall said "You suck!"
| skuttledude | 04-03-2006 10:11 AM |
Anyone have a good pic of Button's huge Ka-Blam-O at the last turn?
That afterburner would make a F-15 tremble.
That afterburner would make a F-15 tremble.
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 10:22 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]As far as JPM, not the nicest guy, that�s a given. One of the things he said that made me go :confused: was in the pre-race when Windsor asked him about the Merc engines. He said something to the effect of them being not the best but it seems pretty biting.[/QUOTE]
Why does Juan say stuff like that? Does he really think he's going to get better backing after he says stuff like that? He didn't exactly help himself out by spinning pre-race, and by going off-track and disabling his car.
That's just one of the reasons I don't care much for JPM. He is a good driver, but he lacks consistency. He can have a brilliant drive one weekend, and the next weekend do something completely gooberific.
Mika
Why does Juan say stuff like that? Does he really think he's going to get better backing after he says stuff like that? He didn't exactly help himself out by spinning pre-race, and by going off-track and disabling his car.
That's just one of the reasons I don't care much for JPM. He is a good driver, but he lacks consistency. He can have a brilliant drive one weekend, and the next weekend do something completely gooberific.
Mika
| artkevin | 04-03-2006 10:58 AM |
[QUOTE=Davis K Powers]Anyone have a good pic of Button's huge Ka-Blam-O at the last turn?
That afterburner would make a F-15 tremble.[/QUOTE]
Can't find any shots of the fire ball so this is as close as I can get.
[IMG]http://www.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/36497_2.jpg[/IMG]
Mika, I think Monto is honest and doesn't really couch his words. He should, but if you ask him a direct question you'll most likely get a direct answer. Seems not to be part of the McLaren mold. He tends to say things that are true but that he maybe should just pleed the 5th (fisith!) on.
That afterburner would make a F-15 tremble.[/QUOTE]
Can't find any shots of the fire ball so this is as close as I can get.
[IMG]http://www.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/36497_2.jpg[/IMG]
Mika, I think Monto is honest and doesn't really couch his words. He should, but if you ask him a direct question you'll most likely get a direct answer. Seems not to be part of the McLaren mold. He tends to say things that are true but that he maybe should just pleed the 5th (fisith!) on.
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 11:02 AM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens]His actions as much as what he says. This weekend the way he was waving off the marshal without looking at him like he was a fly buzzing in his ear, for example.[/QUOTE]
Funny, kind of like Kimi when he assaulted them??? :rolleyes:
You must be kidding me...
I agree about his brain lapses on the track though. He's very hit or miss. This weekend looked like a hit for a while there...
Kimi damaged his car too remember...he just got a little luckier than JPM.
But as far as running his mouth. JPM has been 100% better from the end of last season to now.
Preferential treatment statements??? Many times he's noted, especially at the end of last year, that he would be helping Kimi is he could. It seems to me that lately, he's accepted his position as the 2nd driver...
I really see a lot of other drivers making more inappropriate statements these days then JPM. He's definately more settled than ever...
(sidenote: JPM was trying to talk to his teammate/engineer after teh incident....if the Marshal got in Schumi's way in the same situation, you can be sure the same result would follow...he was off the track, out of the way...I certainly didn't see anything wrong with what happened.)
Funny, kind of like Kimi when he assaulted them??? :rolleyes:
You must be kidding me...
I agree about his brain lapses on the track though. He's very hit or miss. This weekend looked like a hit for a while there...
Kimi damaged his car too remember...he just got a little luckier than JPM.
But as far as running his mouth. JPM has been 100% better from the end of last season to now.
Preferential treatment statements??? Many times he's noted, especially at the end of last year, that he would be helping Kimi is he could. It seems to me that lately, he's accepted his position as the 2nd driver...
I really see a lot of other drivers making more inappropriate statements these days then JPM. He's definately more settled than ever...
(sidenote: JPM was trying to talk to his teammate/engineer after teh incident....if the Marshal got in Schumi's way in the same situation, you can be sure the same result would follow...he was off the track, out of the way...I certainly didn't see anything wrong with what happened.)
| monzon | 04-03-2006 11:12 AM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens]According to racing-live.com he said to DC "Go F**K yourself." Ouch. I want to like Speed too, but jeebus, that's retarded.
And I don't like the corporate air of a lot of drivers either, but Montoya's attitude drives me nuts.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually starting to like Scott Speed more and more! Unfortunately, as his career goes on, odds are he'll lose his tendency towards these outbursts.
I think it gives the rivalries a little more dimension.
:devil:
And I don't like the corporate air of a lot of drivers either, but Montoya's attitude drives me nuts.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually starting to like Scott Speed more and more! Unfortunately, as his career goes on, odds are he'll lose his tendency towards these outbursts.
I think it gives the rivalries a little more dimension.
:devil:
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 11:12 AM |
Monte was probably still a little pissed that he gave up 3 spots (and 3rd) because of kimi's long pit stop... :lol: They were only a second apart going into that yellow period...
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 11:13 AM |
Kimi pushes a marshall, its all good...
Juan gives one a dirty look and he's an arse...
You guys are funny... ;)
I do hope JPM gets some consistency going...it would certainly make for some better racing up front...
Alonso's pace over Kimi was a little concerning too...hope MM picks it up in a few weeks...
Juan gives one a dirty look and he's an arse...
You guys are funny... ;)
I do hope JPM gets some consistency going...it would certainly make for some better racing up front...
Alonso's pace over Kimi was a little concerning too...hope MM picks it up in a few weeks...
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 11:22 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]Mika, I think Monto is honest and doesn't really couch his words. He should, but if you ask him a direct question you'll most likely get a direct answer. Seems not to be part of the McLaren mold. He tends to say things that are true but that he maybe should just pleed the 5th (fisith!) on.[/QUOTE]
I agree that JPM is honest and is one that calls it how he sees it. McLaren, on the other hand, want someone to be politically correct and be as positive as possible, even during bad times. I'll be the first to tell you that I hate PC. But when big $$$ is concerned(McLaren contract), I'd do what it takes to keep my boss happy.
I do feel bad for the pit stop mishap. I wouldn't be too happy either, losing 3 spots during a pit.
If JPM is so willing to help Kimi out, how come he spun out last year during one of the last races(can't remember)? Sorry, I don't buy the "I'm gonna help Kimi out". If that was the case, how come he didn't give Kimi a bit of room in the first few corners? Either he's helping Kimi out, or he's trying to win himself. You decide.
Mika
I agree that JPM is honest and is one that calls it how he sees it. McLaren, on the other hand, want someone to be politically correct and be as positive as possible, even during bad times. I'll be the first to tell you that I hate PC. But when big $$$ is concerned(McLaren contract), I'd do what it takes to keep my boss happy.
I do feel bad for the pit stop mishap. I wouldn't be too happy either, losing 3 spots during a pit.
If JPM is so willing to help Kimi out, how come he spun out last year during one of the last races(can't remember)? Sorry, I don't buy the "I'm gonna help Kimi out". If that was the case, how come he didn't give Kimi a bit of room in the first few corners? Either he's helping Kimi out, or he's trying to win himself. You decide.
Mika
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 11:26 AM |
[QUOTE=REX8]Kimi pushes a marshall, its all good...
Juan gives one a dirty look and he's an arse...
You guys are funny... ;)
I do hope JPM gets some consistency going...it would certainly make for some better racing up front...
Alonso's pace over Kimi was a little concerning too...hope MM picks it up in a few weeks...[/QUOTE]
I agree that with JPM up front that it'd be a more exciting race. He's one of the few guys that has the balls to pass people when he probably shouldn't. It'd make for a better team, too. Last year McLaren could have had the constructors championship...
Alonso had his A game on, and his car was spot on. I don't think there was a whole lot that Kimi could have done. Beginning part of the race Kimi lost a ballast or a piece under his front wing, and that caused him to lose some time each lap. But after the nose change, I think his pace was still off.
Mika
Juan gives one a dirty look and he's an arse...
You guys are funny... ;)
I do hope JPM gets some consistency going...it would certainly make for some better racing up front...
Alonso's pace over Kimi was a little concerning too...hope MM picks it up in a few weeks...[/QUOTE]
I agree that with JPM up front that it'd be a more exciting race. He's one of the few guys that has the balls to pass people when he probably shouldn't. It'd make for a better team, too. Last year McLaren could have had the constructors championship...
Alonso had his A game on, and his car was spot on. I don't think there was a whole lot that Kimi could have done. Beginning part of the race Kimi lost a ballast or a piece under his front wing, and that caused him to lose some time each lap. But after the nose change, I think his pace was still off.
Mika
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 11:27 AM |
[QUOTE=finnRex]
If JPM is so willing to help Kimi out, how come he spun out last year during one of the last races(can't remember)? Sorry, I don't buy the "I'm gonna help Kimi out". If that was the case, how come he didn't give Kimi a bit of room in the first few corners? Either he's helping Kimi out, or he's trying to win himself. You decide.
Mika[/QUOTE]
He's trying to win, thats his job....but he was very open, later in the season, when he was out of the running, that if he was given the chance, he would be helping his teammate.
I'm not sure what your talking about...JPM spinning Kimi, that surely didn't happen later in the year, when JPM was out of the fight.
You expect a 2nd driver, who is still in the championship fight, to back off for a teamate? Not going to happen...JPM is occationally faster than kimi, and if he's in the fight for the championship, of course he's not going to fall back...
There were PLENTY of times last year that saw Kimi 1st and JPM second...without a challenge for teh lead...
That alone shows his willingness...
If JPM is so willing to help Kimi out, how come he spun out last year during one of the last races(can't remember)? Sorry, I don't buy the "I'm gonna help Kimi out". If that was the case, how come he didn't give Kimi a bit of room in the first few corners? Either he's helping Kimi out, or he's trying to win himself. You decide.
Mika[/QUOTE]
He's trying to win, thats his job....but he was very open, later in the season, when he was out of the running, that if he was given the chance, he would be helping his teammate.
I'm not sure what your talking about...JPM spinning Kimi, that surely didn't happen later in the year, when JPM was out of the fight.
You expect a 2nd driver, who is still in the championship fight, to back off for a teamate? Not going to happen...JPM is occationally faster than kimi, and if he's in the fight for the championship, of course he's not going to fall back...
There were PLENTY of times last year that saw Kimi 1st and JPM second...without a challenge for teh lead...
That alone shows his willingness...
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 11:36 AM |
[QUOTE=REX8]When Kimi was in position to win the Championship, you think JPM spun him out???? What??? When???
He's trying to win, thats his job....but he was very open, later in the season, when he was out of the running, that if he was given the chance, he would be helping his teammate.
I'm not sure what your talking about...JPM spinning Kimi, that surely didn't happen later in the year, when JPM was out of the fight.
In the first few rounds, JPM obviously wouldn't be helping Kimi All drivers are trying to win. You think he was hit on purpose? Get real.
You expect a 2nd driver, who is still in the championship fight, to back off for a teamate? Not going to happen...
I guess he should have handed all his wins/podiums last year to Kimi too?[/QUOTE]
I was referring to one of the last races where JPM was running 2nd, and it could have been a 1-2 McLaren win. JPM spins out, hands points over to Renault. He wasn't being pressured or anything. He has a tendency to make these bonehead moves.
As far as last season goes, he had at least one chance to "help" Kimi out, at Brazil. Did he? No. He won the race, and Kimi came in second. Looking back at it now it wouldn't have mattered, but if Ferrari does it, why not McLaren?
I'll ask you again. Is JPM trying to win, or is he trying to help Kimi? It's one or the other. Quit trying to portray JPM as a team player, when he's just as greedy as the next guy(Kimi).
Mika
He's trying to win, thats his job....but he was very open, later in the season, when he was out of the running, that if he was given the chance, he would be helping his teammate.
I'm not sure what your talking about...JPM spinning Kimi, that surely didn't happen later in the year, when JPM was out of the fight.
In the first few rounds, JPM obviously wouldn't be helping Kimi All drivers are trying to win. You think he was hit on purpose? Get real.
You expect a 2nd driver, who is still in the championship fight, to back off for a teamate? Not going to happen...
I guess he should have handed all his wins/podiums last year to Kimi too?[/QUOTE]
I was referring to one of the last races where JPM was running 2nd, and it could have been a 1-2 McLaren win. JPM spins out, hands points over to Renault. He wasn't being pressured or anything. He has a tendency to make these bonehead moves.
As far as last season goes, he had at least one chance to "help" Kimi out, at Brazil. Did he? No. He won the race, and Kimi came in second. Looking back at it now it wouldn't have mattered, but if Ferrari does it, why not McLaren?
I'll ask you again. Is JPM trying to win, or is he trying to help Kimi? It's one or the other. Quit trying to portray JPM as a team player, when he's just as greedy as the next guy(Kimi).
Mika
| artkevin | 04-03-2006 11:40 AM |
What Mika is talking about is the Hungarian race last year. After he was punted by Tiago he spun the following lap because his diffuser was broken. OR maybe he is talking about Spa when Pizza boy on dry tires spun into and took out JPM. Either way I don't agree with him. JPM was pushing and tyring to bring home as many points as he could to help the team AND Kimi.
Although I agree 100% w/ what you are saying REX8 I don't think Tim ever said anything pro-Kimi when he was talking about Monto.
Although I agree 100% w/ what you are saying REX8 I don't think Tim ever said anything pro-Kimi when he was talking about Monto.
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 11:50 AM |
[QUOTE=finnRex]I was referring to one of the last races where JPM was running 2nd, and it could have been a 1-2 McLaren win. JPM spins out, hands points over to Renault. He wasn't being pressured or anything. He has a tendency to make these bonehead moves.
As far as last season goes, he had at least one chance to "help" Kimi out, at Brazil. Did he? No. He won the race, and Kimi came in second. Looking back at it now it wouldn't have mattered, but if Ferrari does it, why not McLaren?
I'll ask you again. Is JPM trying to win, or is he trying to help Kimi? It's one or the other. Quit trying to portray JPM as a team player, when he's just as greedy as the next guy(Kimi).
Mika[/QUOTE]
So Montoya spins...and thats what you're basing your argument on for him not helping out his teammate?
Yeah, there's about 100 reasons you wouldn't want to spin, one being helping your teammate...
Thats a VERY weak example to use of not being a team player...because he made a mistake! :rolleyes:
As far as last season goes, he had at least one chance to "help" Kimi out, at Brazil. Did he? No. He won the race, and Kimi came in second. Looking back at it now it wouldn't have mattered, but if Ferrari does it, why not McLaren?
I'll ask you again. Is JPM trying to win, or is he trying to help Kimi? It's one or the other. Quit trying to portray JPM as a team player, when he's just as greedy as the next guy(Kimi).
Mika[/QUOTE]
So Montoya spins...and thats what you're basing your argument on for him not helping out his teammate?
Yeah, there's about 100 reasons you wouldn't want to spin, one being helping your teammate...
Thats a VERY weak example to use of not being a team player...because he made a mistake! :rolleyes:
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 11:52 AM |
You're thinking of Turkey Kev. :)
It's not in Montoya's contract to "help" his teammate, that's not the way McLaren as a team go racing.
It's not in Montoya's contract to "help" his teammate, that's not the way McLaren as a team go racing.
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 11:52 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]
Although I agree 100% w/ what you are saying REX8 I don't think Tim ever said anything pro-Kimi when he was talking about Monto.[/QUOTE]
True, I just lumped him in.... ;)
Anyway...
Best race of the year IMHO. Great racing, even though it wasn't for the lead...
Lots of passing and dueling, yet somehow, certain parties managed to keep themselves from contact...
Great fun...
Although I agree 100% w/ what you are saying REX8 I don't think Tim ever said anything pro-Kimi when he was talking about Monto.[/QUOTE]
True, I just lumped him in.... ;)
Anyway...
Best race of the year IMHO. Great racing, even though it wasn't for the lead...
Lots of passing and dueling, yet somehow, certain parties managed to keep themselves from contact...
Great fun...
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 11:53 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]What Mika is talking about is the Hungarian race last year. After he was punted by Tiago he spun the following lap because his diffuser was broken. OR maybe he is talking about Spa when Pizza boy on dry tires spun into and took out JPM. Either way I don't agree with him. JPM was pushing and tyring to bring home as many points as he could to help the team AND Kimi.
[/QUOTE]
I was referring to the Hungarian(was it Turkey?) race last year, Kevin. You're right. So you think it's ok to cut in front of a backmarker(which I'll be the first to admit that he should have moved out of the way, but didn't), and slam on the brakes? Ya know, sometimes ya gotta use your head. Wait another corner or two and then find a better opening. I believe Alonso(may have been Fisi) was behind about 7-8 seconds, so there wasn't any pressure on JPM. So to force yourself into a difficult situation when it wasn't necessary is a good move?
It's moves like that that frustrate me. If JPM was consistent, he could be just as good as Kimi(maybe even better, dare I say). But unfortunately, I feel that he is going to be a good driver, instead of one of the greats. When JPM is on, he is ON. He just has too many off times.
Mika
[/QUOTE]
I was referring to the Hungarian(was it Turkey?) race last year, Kevin. You're right. So you think it's ok to cut in front of a backmarker(which I'll be the first to admit that he should have moved out of the way, but didn't), and slam on the brakes? Ya know, sometimes ya gotta use your head. Wait another corner or two and then find a better opening. I believe Alonso(may have been Fisi) was behind about 7-8 seconds, so there wasn't any pressure on JPM. So to force yourself into a difficult situation when it wasn't necessary is a good move?
It's moves like that that frustrate me. If JPM was consistent, he could be just as good as Kimi(maybe even better, dare I say). But unfortunately, I feel that he is going to be a good driver, instead of one of the greats. When JPM is on, he is ON. He just has too many off times.
Mika
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 11:55 AM |
[QUOTE=finnRex]I was referring to the Hungarian(was it Turkey?) race last year, Kevin. You're right. So you think it's ok to cut in front of a backmarker(which I'll be the first to admit that he should have moved out of the way, but didn't), and slam on the brakes? Ya know, sometimes ya gotta use your head. Wait another corner or two and then find a better opening. I believe Alonso(may have been Fisi) was behind about 7-8 seconds, so there wasn't any pressure on JPM. So to force yourself into a difficult situation when it wasn't necessary is a good move?
It's moves like that that frustrate me. If JPM was consistent, he could be just as good as Kimi(maybe even better, dare I say). But unfortunately, I feel that he is going to be a good driver, instead of one of the greats. When JPM is on, he is ON. He just has too many off times.
Mika[/QUOTE]
I agree with his sporatic driving at times...I just relate that to bad driving, and not bad intentions with helping his teammate thats all.
It's moves like that that frustrate me. If JPM was consistent, he could be just as good as Kimi(maybe even better, dare I say). But unfortunately, I feel that he is going to be a good driver, instead of one of the greats. When JPM is on, he is ON. He just has too many off times.
Mika[/QUOTE]
I agree with his sporatic driving at times...I just relate that to bad driving, and not bad intentions with helping his teammate thats all.
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 11:57 AM |
[QUOTE=finnRex]Ya know, sometimes ya gotta use your head. Wait another corner or two and then find a better opening. I believe Alonso(may have been Fisi) was behind about 7-8 seconds, so there wasn't any pressure on JPM. So to force yourself into a difficult situation when it wasn't necessary is a good move?[/QUOTE]
You mean just like Raikonnen did at the Nurburgring...pushing when he didn't need to past a backmarker (JV), having a mighty lockup, flat spotting his tire, and ending up against the armco on the final lap?
Racing drivers make mistakes, even the great ones (we saw that Sunday eh Schu?) and to sit there and slag off a driver like Montoya for making slightly more mistakes than Raikonnen is completely pointless.
Montoya is a hot head for sure, the best always are.
You mean just like Raikonnen did at the Nurburgring...pushing when he didn't need to past a backmarker (JV), having a mighty lockup, flat spotting his tire, and ending up against the armco on the final lap?
Racing drivers make mistakes, even the great ones (we saw that Sunday eh Schu?) and to sit there and slag off a driver like Montoya for making slightly more mistakes than Raikonnen is completely pointless.
Montoya is a hot head for sure, the best always are.
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 12:00 PM |
I think JPM could be in the runnings VERY easily with Kimi and Alonso, if he had more consistent results. But that's DAMN hard with McLaren!;)
I dunno, I guess I feel that he makes bonehead moves, and in the process hurts McLaren and Kimi. I don't necessarily think that he is a team player, but on the same token neither is Kimi.
Mika
I dunno, I guess I feel that he makes bonehead moves, and in the process hurts McLaren and Kimi. I don't necessarily think that he is a team player, but on the same token neither is Kimi.
Mika
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 12:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg]You mean just like Raikonnen did at the Nurburgring...pushing when he didn't need to past a backmarker (JV), having a mighty lockup, flat spotting his tire, and ending up against the armco on the final lap?
Racing drivers make mistakes, even the great ones (we saw that Sunday eh Schu?) and to sit there and slag off a driver like Montoya for making slightly more mistakes than Raikonnen is completely pointless.
Montoya is a hot head for sure, the best always are.[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong, but wasn't Alonso on Kimi's tail too?
Mika
Racing drivers make mistakes, even the great ones (we saw that Sunday eh Schu?) and to sit there and slag off a driver like Montoya for making slightly more mistakes than Raikonnen is completely pointless.
Montoya is a hot head for sure, the best always are.[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong, but wasn't Alonso on Kimi's tail too?
Mika
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 12:09 PM |
Sure, but only after Raikonnen had flat spotted the tire. Kimi had a nice gap when he got himself crossed up under braking.
Alonso applied just enough pressure to make the McLaren crack.
Alonso applied just enough pressure to make the McLaren crack.
| artkevin | 04-03-2006 12:12 PM |
Well I have to disagree with you on the Tiago thing in Turkey (Ferg's right, that part of the world confuses me :) ). Monto could have made the pass later but I to this day think Tiago knew that had to happen there. When JPM pulled out to make the pass Tiago had to have known that he was going to have to put his car there so he should have backed off. A back marker should not make himself change the outcome of the front runners race IMO.
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 12:12 PM |
I thought for some reason Alonso was/had been on Kimi's tail the whole time. My bad...
Mika
Mika
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 12:14 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]Well I have to disagree with you on the Tiago thing in Turkey (Ferg's right, that part of the world confuses me :) ). Monto could have made the pass later but I to this day think Tiago knew that had to happen there. When JPM pulled out to make the pass Tiago had to have known that he was going to have to put his car there so he should have backed off. A back marker should not make himself change the outcome of the front runners race IMO.[/QUOTE]
It's all good. I agree 100% that Tiago should have moved over. It sucks that a backmarker changes the outcome of the front runners, like you said. But he didn't, and well, you know the rest...
Mika
It's all good. I agree 100% that Tiago should have moved over. It sucks that a backmarker changes the outcome of the front runners, like you said. But he didn't, and well, you know the rest...
Mika
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 12:23 PM |
Enough with the bickering, we sound like old ladies :lol:
There's a bit of a break until Imola (April 23rd) thankfully, and it looks like Speed won't be covering San Marino. Was it ABC or CBS that did the network broadcast last year?
Also Speed is going to be showing the first two rounds of the GP2 series, Valencia (which actually takes place on the 9th...) and Imola the weekend of the 23rd. Valencia on Saturday, Imola on Sunday morning. Soemthing to keep an eye out for. :)
[B]Ah good, I found it, CBS sports will be showing the San Marino Grand Prix at 8:00am Eastern.[/B]
:D
There's a bit of a break until Imola (April 23rd) thankfully, and it looks like Speed won't be covering San Marino. Was it ABC or CBS that did the network broadcast last year?
Also Speed is going to be showing the first two rounds of the GP2 series, Valencia (which actually takes place on the 9th...) and Imola the weekend of the 23rd. Valencia on Saturday, Imola on Sunday morning. Soemthing to keep an eye out for. :)
[B]Ah good, I found it, CBS sports will be showing the San Marino Grand Prix at 8:00am Eastern.[/B]
:D
| TimStevens | 04-03-2006 12:29 PM |
I never said I liked Kimi any more than Montoya...
| TimStevens | 04-03-2006 12:29 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg]Enough with the bickering, we sound like old ladies :lol:
There's a bit of a break until Imola (April 23rd) thankfully, and it looks like Speed won't be covering San Marino. Was it ABC or CBS that did the network broadcast last year?
Also Speed is going to be showing the first two rounds of the GP2 series, Valencia (which actually takes place on the 9th...) and Imola the weekend of the 23rd. Valencia on Saturday, Imola on Sunday morning. Soemthing to keep an eye out for. :)
[B]Ah good, I found it, CBS sports will be showing the San Marino Grand Prix at 8:00am Eastern.[/B]
:D[/QUOTE]
It was nice of Bob Varsha to spoil the results of the GP2 race for those of us who'll wait to watch it :mad:
There's a bit of a break until Imola (April 23rd) thankfully, and it looks like Speed won't be covering San Marino. Was it ABC or CBS that did the network broadcast last year?
Also Speed is going to be showing the first two rounds of the GP2 series, Valencia (which actually takes place on the 9th...) and Imola the weekend of the 23rd. Valencia on Saturday, Imola on Sunday morning. Soemthing to keep an eye out for. :)
[B]Ah good, I found it, CBS sports will be showing the San Marino Grand Prix at 8:00am Eastern.[/B]
:D[/QUOTE]
It was nice of Bob Varsha to spoil the results of the GP2 race for those of us who'll wait to watch it :mad:
| artkevin | 04-03-2006 12:30 PM |
8am?!?!? What the hell kind of time is that? It's on tape delay but lets not but it on in the afternoon!
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 12:32 PM |
[QUOTE=TimStevens]It was nice of Bob Varsha to spoil the results of the GP2 race for those of us who'll wait to watch it :mad:[/QUOTE]
Que?
The GP2 season hasn't started yet. Did he do this last year? It certainly sounds like a Varsha move...
This starts me thinking about all the fantastic racing going on this weekend that we don't get to see living the US..
DTM at Hockenheim
BTCC at Brands Hatch
Euro F3 at Hockenheim
LeMans Series at Instanbul (I think Speed will show these in the fall..)
WRC in France
We do get to watch Champ Car at Long Beach and NASCAR at Texas...so you know, I guess we get [i]something[/i]. :o
Que?
The GP2 season hasn't started yet. Did he do this last year? It certainly sounds like a Varsha move...
This starts me thinking about all the fantastic racing going on this weekend that we don't get to see living the US..
DTM at Hockenheim
BTCC at Brands Hatch
Euro F3 at Hockenheim
LeMans Series at Instanbul (I think Speed will show these in the fall..)
WRC in France
We do get to watch Champ Car at Long Beach and NASCAR at Texas...so you know, I guess we get [i]something[/i]. :o
| TimStevens | 04-03-2006 12:34 PM |
Ohhh... maybe it was F3 he spoiled? Hrm...
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 12:43 PM |
Got ya!
You must be thinking of the Australian Formula 3 race that Bruno Senna won.
Stu dropped that one back on page two of this thread I think, so Varsha's not alone! :lol:
You must be thinking of the Australian Formula 3 race that Bruno Senna won.
Stu dropped that one back on page two of this thread I think, so Varsha's not alone! :lol:
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 12:48 PM |
I dont' really want to fuel the Montoya/Raikonnen debate any longer, but this is pretty good stuff.
[QUOTE][B]Montoya questions McLaren's tactics[/B]
By Jonathan Noble Monday, April 3rd 2006, 16:36 GMT
Juan Pablo Montoya may have had plenty of reasons to chastise himself after an incident-filled Australian Grand Prix, but afterwards he openly pointed fire at his team and teammate Kimi Raikkonen.
Although the McLaren driver spun on the warm-up lap, then behind the Safety Car early in the race before finally running wide across a kerb to end his afternoon, the Colombian's biggest disappointment was with Raikkonen and the team management.
He said he was pretty unimpressed with Raikkonen's aggression towards him on the opening lap of the race, when they nearly banged wheels at both the first corner and then the quick chicane out the back of the circuit.
"Yeah, the last race was the same," he said. "He threw the car at me and he did the same here. But it doesn't matter - we are racing. I am not going to sit down and cry about it."
Montoya also said he was baffled about why Raikkonen put in the fastest lap of the race on the final tour.
"It was Kimi being heroic on the last lap and putting the fastest lap in, because it was half a second quicker than any other lap he did in the race. So he was either slow or thinking about something else other than driving except on the last lap.
"If you think about it, how do you go half a second quicker on the last lap? What do you gain out of it? It is not going to be a circuit record because the circuit record is 1m24s for Michael (Schumacher), so what are you risking? Going off on the last corner? I don't know."
When asked why there appeared to be an increased level of tension between himself and Raikkonen compared to last year, Montoya said: "I think (because) I am in a good position. Last year I wasn't in a position to fight him so I don't think he felt threatened by me."
Montoya's frustrations also boiled over towards the team after the race, claiming he was 'shocked' that the team opted to change Raikkonen's damaged nose at the final Safety Car pitstop because Montoya was stacked up behind him.
"I was kind of shocked the team did that," he said. "When you are doing stacked pitstops and you can put both cars on the podium, they decide to change Kimi's nose.
"Yes, he did damage the endplate but the end result was that I ended up going up over a kerb, the car ended up shutting itself off and that cost us points. If they wouldn't have done that (changed Raikkonen's nose) then I wouldn't have been behind Ralf (Schumacher) at any point."
Montoya confirmed that he had spoken to team boss Ron Dennis about the matter after the race, but he still believed it was the wrong decision.
"Ron said that Kimi had the pace to win the race and it turns out that he didn't. So we ended up with him finishing second and me not finishing so for the constructors' (championship) that cost us at least six points."
Speaking about his own exit from the race, when he ran wide at the final corner across a kerb, Montoya said: "I went on the kerb and bringing the car back it just turned itself off. It was just flapping from side to side when it shut itself off.
"It seemed like the system reset itself and went off. When the systems all came back on, the car was in neutral but everything else was off.
"It is a shame because the car was good. Renault was a bit quicker than us, but not much. I think I was a little bit quicker than Kimi, so I think we would have been okay (without the spins). I think Fernando would have beaten us, but I think we had a good enough pace."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][B]Montoya questions McLaren's tactics[/B]
By Jonathan Noble Monday, April 3rd 2006, 16:36 GMT
Juan Pablo Montoya may have had plenty of reasons to chastise himself after an incident-filled Australian Grand Prix, but afterwards he openly pointed fire at his team and teammate Kimi Raikkonen.
Although the McLaren driver spun on the warm-up lap, then behind the Safety Car early in the race before finally running wide across a kerb to end his afternoon, the Colombian's biggest disappointment was with Raikkonen and the team management.
He said he was pretty unimpressed with Raikkonen's aggression towards him on the opening lap of the race, when they nearly banged wheels at both the first corner and then the quick chicane out the back of the circuit.
"Yeah, the last race was the same," he said. "He threw the car at me and he did the same here. But it doesn't matter - we are racing. I am not going to sit down and cry about it."
Montoya also said he was baffled about why Raikkonen put in the fastest lap of the race on the final tour.
"It was Kimi being heroic on the last lap and putting the fastest lap in, because it was half a second quicker than any other lap he did in the race. So he was either slow or thinking about something else other than driving except on the last lap.
"If you think about it, how do you go half a second quicker on the last lap? What do you gain out of it? It is not going to be a circuit record because the circuit record is 1m24s for Michael (Schumacher), so what are you risking? Going off on the last corner? I don't know."
When asked why there appeared to be an increased level of tension between himself and Raikkonen compared to last year, Montoya said: "I think (because) I am in a good position. Last year I wasn't in a position to fight him so I don't think he felt threatened by me."
Montoya's frustrations also boiled over towards the team after the race, claiming he was 'shocked' that the team opted to change Raikkonen's damaged nose at the final Safety Car pitstop because Montoya was stacked up behind him.
"I was kind of shocked the team did that," he said. "When you are doing stacked pitstops and you can put both cars on the podium, they decide to change Kimi's nose.
"Yes, he did damage the endplate but the end result was that I ended up going up over a kerb, the car ended up shutting itself off and that cost us points. If they wouldn't have done that (changed Raikkonen's nose) then I wouldn't have been behind Ralf (Schumacher) at any point."
Montoya confirmed that he had spoken to team boss Ron Dennis about the matter after the race, but he still believed it was the wrong decision.
"Ron said that Kimi had the pace to win the race and it turns out that he didn't. So we ended up with him finishing second and me not finishing so for the constructors' (championship) that cost us at least six points."
Speaking about his own exit from the race, when he ran wide at the final corner across a kerb, Montoya said: "I went on the kerb and bringing the car back it just turned itself off. It was just flapping from side to side when it shut itself off.
"It seemed like the system reset itself and went off. When the systems all came back on, the car was in neutral but everything else was off.
"It is a shame because the car was good. Renault was a bit quicker than us, but not much. I think I was a little bit quicker than Kimi, so I think we would have been okay (without the spins). I think Fernando would have beaten us, but I think we had a good enough pace."[/QUOTE]
| artkevin | 04-03-2006 01:02 PM |
I agree w/ everything JPM said but I don't think he should blame the team for him going over the kerb. Yes, if he wasn't behind Ralf he probably wouldn't have to push as hard but it was still driver's error.
See, I can disagree with Montoya!
See, I can disagree with Montoya!
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 01:12 PM |
I didn't want to touch this subject in fear of continuing the "bickering old ladies" segment of this thread;).
BUT, since he mentioned Kimi "throwing the car" at him, I'd have to say, tough S. Any other driver would do that too, close the door. If the roles were reversed, I could bet you $$$ that JPM would have done the exact same thing to Kimi.
I'm on the fence about the nose change for Kimi. They couldn't have changed noses before, 'cuz then Kimi would have lost too many places(more than the 3 JPM lost). But at the same time it put JPM in the bind that he was in. Tough call no matter how you look at it.
Mika
BUT, since he mentioned Kimi "throwing the car" at him, I'd have to say, tough S. Any other driver would do that too, close the door. If the roles were reversed, I could bet you $$$ that JPM would have done the exact same thing to Kimi.
I'm on the fence about the nose change for Kimi. They couldn't have changed noses before, 'cuz then Kimi would have lost too many places(more than the 3 JPM lost). But at the same time it put JPM in the bind that he was in. Tough call no matter how you look at it.
Mika
| ralliharri | 04-03-2006 01:31 PM |
[QUOTE=John__Gotti]What a crazy race, can't remember the last time so many retirements happened. And Button, 2nd to last corner his engine gives way what luck. Speed scores points holdong off DC. I think this has been the best race this season by far. Nice to also see both the BMW/Sauber cars finish and in the points no less even with Villi's 10 spot penalty for an engine change. Alonso still seems unstoppable on his way to consecutive world titles. Big finish for Toyota aswell, I believe this is there best finish ever.[/QUOTE]
Spa 2004 comes immediately to mind, all the flat tires from carbon fiber laying on track and what not, 10 or so finishers.
Spa 2004 comes immediately to mind, all the flat tires from carbon fiber laying on track and what not, 10 or so finishers.
| KAX | 04-03-2006 01:33 PM |
I also agree with everything except blaming the team. Just because your back there, doesnt give you an excuse to end your race, it was still his fault for going too fast exiting the corner and running wide.
For the nose change, if they had gotten it on the car on the first attempt, montoya would have been fine, he wasnt back there until the were done fueling, but they would have had the nose on before the fueling ended, had they not sucked at it. He shouldnt blame the team for changing the nose, it had to be done. He can blame the pit crew for messing it up, that was what costed him the 3 positions and eventually the race.
For the nose change, if they had gotten it on the car on the first attempt, montoya would have been fine, he wasnt back there until the were done fueling, but they would have had the nose on before the fueling ended, had they not sucked at it. He shouldnt blame the team for changing the nose, it had to be done. He can blame the pit crew for messing it up, that was what costed him the 3 positions and eventually the race.
| sbomm | 04-03-2006 01:35 PM |
[img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/phatfil/505bf857.jpg[/img]
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 01:39 PM |
Sbomm, thanks for the ka-blamm-0 pic:).
KAX, I forgot about that. The crew had a tough time putting the nose on the first time. They eventually had to hit it to get it on, right?
Mika
KAX, I forgot about that. The crew had a tough time putting the nose on the first time. They eventually had to hit it to get it on, right?
Mika
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 01:44 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]For the nose change, if they had gotten it on the car on the first attempt, montoya would have been fine, he wasnt back there until the were done fueling, but they would have had the nose on before the fueling ended, had they not sucked at it.[/QUOTE]
Well to be honest we don't know exactly how long Montoya was sitting behind Kimi. The camera didn't cut away from the overhead shot until they finished with the nose change, then it was like, "Hey! There's a second McLaren!"
Montoya was right behind Raikonnen on the track, and since they entered the pits at the same time chances are JPM was sitting behind Kimi for the majority of his stop.
I agree with what everyone has said though, it was a hard decision for the team to make and I don't blame Montoya for feeling pissy about it. Had the roles been revered and it was Kimi waiting for Montoya (well first of all the Kimi supporters would be up in arms and calling for blood) I wouldn't be surprised to hear similar comments from Raikonnen.
Well to be honest we don't know exactly how long Montoya was sitting behind Kimi. The camera didn't cut away from the overhead shot until they finished with the nose change, then it was like, "Hey! There's a second McLaren!"
Montoya was right behind Raikonnen on the track, and since they entered the pits at the same time chances are JPM was sitting behind Kimi for the majority of his stop.
I agree with what everyone has said though, it was a hard decision for the team to make and I don't blame Montoya for feeling pissy about it. Had the roles been revered and it was Kimi waiting for Montoya (well first of all the Kimi supporters would be up in arms and calling for blood) I wouldn't be surprised to hear similar comments from Raikonnen.
| Bonzo | 04-03-2006 02:15 PM |
I enjoyed the cajoling by Flav basically saying Fisi was slow. :lol:
imho I don't think that's the best way to get results from your driver. As an owner he needs to give his driver a package to achieve. If he is'nt then find out why. Don't indescriminately throw the fact that he's 2 seconds slower. Heck just about the whole field was 2 seconds slower. [ /armchair team owner] :p
Alonso spanked everyone. Alonso was also the one doing the most vigorous tire warming when not in race conditions. iirc he said he worked harder on PC laps then he did on race laps. FA wants to and will do anything to win. The rest imho were a bit lazy if they cry cold tires. [cough(button)cough]
imho I don't think that's the best way to get results from your driver. As an owner he needs to give his driver a package to achieve. If he is'nt then find out why. Don't indescriminately throw the fact that he's 2 seconds slower. Heck just about the whole field was 2 seconds slower. [ /armchair team owner] :p
Alonso spanked everyone. Alonso was also the one doing the most vigorous tire warming when not in race conditions. iirc he said he worked harder on PC laps then he did on race laps. FA wants to and will do anything to win. The rest imho were a bit lazy if they cry cold tires. [cough(button)cough]
| TimStevens | 04-03-2006 02:42 PM |
[quote=Montoya]It was Kimi being heroic on the last lap and putting the fastest lap in, because it was half a second quicker than any other lap he did in the race. So he was either slow or thinking about something else other than driving except on the last lap.[/quote]
Let's run that through the McLaren corporate translatomometer...
[quote=Montoya]
Fire me, Ron!
[/quote]
Let's run that through the McLaren corporate translatomometer...
[quote=Montoya]
Fire me, Ron!
[/quote]
| Ferg | 04-03-2006 02:57 PM |
Facts and Stats from Australia. :D
[QUOTE][B]2006 Australian GP: facts & Stats[/B]
[I]Sean Kelly analyses the results and the stats from the Australian Grand Prix, and he offers perspective on the performance of the drivers and teams
By Sean Kelly
autosport.com writer[/I]
Another weekend of incidents and surprise around the roads of Albert Park produced a similar effect on the record books.
Fernando Alonso's tenth Grand Prix victory makes him the first new driver into double-figures in the wins column since David Coulthard took his tenth win at the 2001 Brazilian Grand Prix.
The Spaniard's ninth successive podium is now tied for the second longest streak ever, behind Michael Schumacher's 19-race run that began at Indianapolis in 2001 and ended at Suzuka in 2002.
Alonso and Raikkonen have exactly the same ratio of podiums-to-starts (1 in every 2.8 races) and were totally dominant on pace in Melbourne - no other drivers got to within 0.991 seconds of Alonso and Raikkonen's best times.
While he didn't win the race, Raikkonen had the consolation of yet another fastest lap, and as at the 2005 British GP, he set it on the final lap of the race.
This takes the Finn's career tally to 17 fastest laps - one behind Coulthard for second place on the current active list, and only two behind Ayrton Senna's career total.
Lap Alonso Raikkonen Gap
27 1:28.595 1:29.604 +14.263
28 1:28.306 1:29.306 +15.263
29 1:27.488 1:29.243 +17.018
30 1:27.236 1:29.737 +19.519
31 1:27.289 1:29.560 +21.790
32 1:27.732 1:29.288 +23.346
33 1:27.648 1:29.127 +24.825
Raikkonen experienced a crucial drop in pace around mid-distance, as between laps 27-33 he didn't manage a single lap below 1m29s (relative to his fastest lap of 1:26.045), while Alonso was mostly in the 1m27s.
It would have continued in this manner, but Kimi was saved by the bell when the Safety Car was deployed on lap 34 because of Michael Schumacher's accident.
This allowed McLaren to change the front wing on Raikkonen's car, after it developed a fracture in one of its footplates, most probably as a result of vibrations stemming from the flat-spot the Finn developed on his right front tyre while passing Jenson Button on lap 10.
All this gave Alonso track position as well as the ability to control the restarts, and in the final few laps he could afford to lap around 1.3 seconds slower than Raikkonen. The additional strain that the Finn exerted on his engine toward the end of the race may come back to haunt him at Imola.
Ralf Schumacher benefited from the mistakes of others to take a rare podium finish, his third in Australia.
Since the Belgian Grand Prix of 2002, the Toyota man has started 52 Grands Prix, but this was only the seventh time he's climbed the rostrum in that time-span.
Meanwhile, Jarno Trulli had a promising weekend ruined by a collision with David Coulthard - the 14th time in the Italian's F1 career that he has found himself on the sidelines before the end of the first lap.
Nick Heidfeld's pace in Malaysia was proven to be no fluke with his run to fourth place. At one point in the race he was as high as second, and might have finished on the podium but for a mistake at turn 6, which allowed Raikkonen and Ralf Schumacher to pass him. He matched his last finish in Australia, when he scored his first career points back in 2001.
By leading laps 21 and 22, Mark Webber became the first Australian to lead his home Grand Prix since it became a world championship event. It was only his second time at the head of the field, having previously been there for Jaguar at the 2003 United States GP. Curiously, as happened Sunday, he retired from that race after spending the previous two laps in the lead.
With his retirement at the opening corner, teammate Nico Rosberg has only done six laps in the last two races, combined. Given that he received a fresh engine for the Melbourne meeting, and only competed 175 kms in practice and qualifying, look for the team to try and salvage that relatively fresh engine for Imola.
As Williams come to terms with back-to-back double retirements in Sepang and Melbourne, Ferrari are also feeling the double-DNF blues. Felipe Massa's afternoon ended at the first turn for the second time in four Australian GP starts, and things went from bad to worse when Schumacher joined him at the end of lap 33.
Only one race out of the last 125 finished without a Ferrari being involved. That race, the 2003 Brazilian GP, was also the last time Michael Schumacher crashed out of a race on his own, until Sunday.
Another similarity between that race and Sunday's GP was the multiple appearances of the Safety Car, with four being the most we've seen since the record-setting five appearances in Brazil, three years ago. However, on that day, the race both started and finished behind the Safety Car.
Until a 25-second penalty dropped him down the order, Scott Speed was briefly the 302nd driver to score world championship points, and Toro Rosso become the 76th team to do so. Speed was joining some illustrious company in the One Point Club - Derek Bell and Alex Zanardi are two big names with but a solitary point to their names.
Takuma Sato's Melbourne race will provide him a lot of satisfaction from running as high as 12th place, while fending off the Honda of his replacement Rubens Barrichello for the first 22 laps. Once again he was far quicker than his teammate Yuji Ide, whose best lap was a mammoth 3.163 seconds slower than his team leader's.
At the 2005 Australian GP, the BARs of Sato and Jenson Button both avoided taking the chequered flag in order to allow a penalty-free engine change after the race. On Sunday, the same two drivers again found themselves coming up short on the final lap.
In Sato's case, a wheel problem meant he finished his day in the pits, while for Button, frustration came in the form of his engine lunching itself, and subsequent team order to stop before the line. While that meant the loss of three certain points (and the end of his 12-race points-scoring streak), the upside is that, like last year, he will leave Australia able to change his engine without penalty - something that would have been denied to him had he crossed the line.
For whatever reason, Button struggled all afternoon with his speed, most noticeably after the Safety Car periods. Starting from Honda's first pole position since the 1968 Italian GP, he lost the lead to Alonso at the first restart on lap 3, before Raikkonen jumped him after the second SC period on lap 10. Then, to rub salt into the wound, Ralf Schumacher and Juan-Pablo Montoya both passed him at the lap 38 restart.
The pace simply wasn't there for Button in this race, as demonstrated by his fastest lap, which was a tenth slower than teammate Barrichello - who spent much of his race stuck in the midfield.
The chief beneficiary of Button's last lap maladies was Fisichella, who had given the Englishman a considerable head start by stalling on the grid, relegating himself to pitlane. Beginning an afternoon on the pit road doesn't seem to affect matters in Melbourne - in 2003, Raikkonen pitted at the end of the parade lap, and only a drive-through penalty later on prevented him from winning the race.
Jacques Villeneuve's day was overshadowed by another star drive from his teammate, but the Canadian did achieve a small personal triumph - Malaysia and Australia were his first back-to-back points finishes since the Japanese and Malaysian Grands Prix of 2000. Not a bad return, considering his 10-position grid penalty for changing his engine before qualifying.
Ensuring bragging rights for at least the next three weeks, the BMW factory team are currently ahead of their old partners Williams in the constructors' championship.
Down at the tail end of the field, Tiago Monteiro failed the make it to the finish for only the second time in his 22-race career, while on the flipside, Yuji Ide scored his first F1 finish, three laps down.
Alonso leaves Australia 14 points to the good in the championship battle, an even bigger gap than he had at the same stage last season. It might seem a lot, but Raikkonen himself could caution him against complacency.
After three rounds in 2003, the Finn was 16 points ahead of Michael Schumacher (who was then languishing in 8th place in the table), but the Ferrari driver beat him to the championship at the final race in Suzuka. There's everything to play for as the European leg of the season approaches.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][B]2006 Australian GP: facts & Stats[/B]
[I]Sean Kelly analyses the results and the stats from the Australian Grand Prix, and he offers perspective on the performance of the drivers and teams
By Sean Kelly
autosport.com writer[/I]
Another weekend of incidents and surprise around the roads of Albert Park produced a similar effect on the record books.
Fernando Alonso's tenth Grand Prix victory makes him the first new driver into double-figures in the wins column since David Coulthard took his tenth win at the 2001 Brazilian Grand Prix.
The Spaniard's ninth successive podium is now tied for the second longest streak ever, behind Michael Schumacher's 19-race run that began at Indianapolis in 2001 and ended at Suzuka in 2002.
Alonso and Raikkonen have exactly the same ratio of podiums-to-starts (1 in every 2.8 races) and were totally dominant on pace in Melbourne - no other drivers got to within 0.991 seconds of Alonso and Raikkonen's best times.
While he didn't win the race, Raikkonen had the consolation of yet another fastest lap, and as at the 2005 British GP, he set it on the final lap of the race.
This takes the Finn's career tally to 17 fastest laps - one behind Coulthard for second place on the current active list, and only two behind Ayrton Senna's career total.
Lap Alonso Raikkonen Gap
27 1:28.595 1:29.604 +14.263
28 1:28.306 1:29.306 +15.263
29 1:27.488 1:29.243 +17.018
30 1:27.236 1:29.737 +19.519
31 1:27.289 1:29.560 +21.790
32 1:27.732 1:29.288 +23.346
33 1:27.648 1:29.127 +24.825
Raikkonen experienced a crucial drop in pace around mid-distance, as between laps 27-33 he didn't manage a single lap below 1m29s (relative to his fastest lap of 1:26.045), while Alonso was mostly in the 1m27s.
It would have continued in this manner, but Kimi was saved by the bell when the Safety Car was deployed on lap 34 because of Michael Schumacher's accident.
This allowed McLaren to change the front wing on Raikkonen's car, after it developed a fracture in one of its footplates, most probably as a result of vibrations stemming from the flat-spot the Finn developed on his right front tyre while passing Jenson Button on lap 10.
All this gave Alonso track position as well as the ability to control the restarts, and in the final few laps he could afford to lap around 1.3 seconds slower than Raikkonen. The additional strain that the Finn exerted on his engine toward the end of the race may come back to haunt him at Imola.
Ralf Schumacher benefited from the mistakes of others to take a rare podium finish, his third in Australia.
Since the Belgian Grand Prix of 2002, the Toyota man has started 52 Grands Prix, but this was only the seventh time he's climbed the rostrum in that time-span.
Meanwhile, Jarno Trulli had a promising weekend ruined by a collision with David Coulthard - the 14th time in the Italian's F1 career that he has found himself on the sidelines before the end of the first lap.
Nick Heidfeld's pace in Malaysia was proven to be no fluke with his run to fourth place. At one point in the race he was as high as second, and might have finished on the podium but for a mistake at turn 6, which allowed Raikkonen and Ralf Schumacher to pass him. He matched his last finish in Australia, when he scored his first career points back in 2001.
By leading laps 21 and 22, Mark Webber became the first Australian to lead his home Grand Prix since it became a world championship event. It was only his second time at the head of the field, having previously been there for Jaguar at the 2003 United States GP. Curiously, as happened Sunday, he retired from that race after spending the previous two laps in the lead.
With his retirement at the opening corner, teammate Nico Rosberg has only done six laps in the last two races, combined. Given that he received a fresh engine for the Melbourne meeting, and only competed 175 kms in practice and qualifying, look for the team to try and salvage that relatively fresh engine for Imola.
As Williams come to terms with back-to-back double retirements in Sepang and Melbourne, Ferrari are also feeling the double-DNF blues. Felipe Massa's afternoon ended at the first turn for the second time in four Australian GP starts, and things went from bad to worse when Schumacher joined him at the end of lap 33.
Only one race out of the last 125 finished without a Ferrari being involved. That race, the 2003 Brazilian GP, was also the last time Michael Schumacher crashed out of a race on his own, until Sunday.
Another similarity between that race and Sunday's GP was the multiple appearances of the Safety Car, with four being the most we've seen since the record-setting five appearances in Brazil, three years ago. However, on that day, the race both started and finished behind the Safety Car.
Until a 25-second penalty dropped him down the order, Scott Speed was briefly the 302nd driver to score world championship points, and Toro Rosso become the 76th team to do so. Speed was joining some illustrious company in the One Point Club - Derek Bell and Alex Zanardi are two big names with but a solitary point to their names.
Takuma Sato's Melbourne race will provide him a lot of satisfaction from running as high as 12th place, while fending off the Honda of his replacement Rubens Barrichello for the first 22 laps. Once again he was far quicker than his teammate Yuji Ide, whose best lap was a mammoth 3.163 seconds slower than his team leader's.
At the 2005 Australian GP, the BARs of Sato and Jenson Button both avoided taking the chequered flag in order to allow a penalty-free engine change after the race. On Sunday, the same two drivers again found themselves coming up short on the final lap.
In Sato's case, a wheel problem meant he finished his day in the pits, while for Button, frustration came in the form of his engine lunching itself, and subsequent team order to stop before the line. While that meant the loss of three certain points (and the end of his 12-race points-scoring streak), the upside is that, like last year, he will leave Australia able to change his engine without penalty - something that would have been denied to him had he crossed the line.
For whatever reason, Button struggled all afternoon with his speed, most noticeably after the Safety Car periods. Starting from Honda's first pole position since the 1968 Italian GP, he lost the lead to Alonso at the first restart on lap 3, before Raikkonen jumped him after the second SC period on lap 10. Then, to rub salt into the wound, Ralf Schumacher and Juan-Pablo Montoya both passed him at the lap 38 restart.
The pace simply wasn't there for Button in this race, as demonstrated by his fastest lap, which was a tenth slower than teammate Barrichello - who spent much of his race stuck in the midfield.
The chief beneficiary of Button's last lap maladies was Fisichella, who had given the Englishman a considerable head start by stalling on the grid, relegating himself to pitlane. Beginning an afternoon on the pit road doesn't seem to affect matters in Melbourne - in 2003, Raikkonen pitted at the end of the parade lap, and only a drive-through penalty later on prevented him from winning the race.
Jacques Villeneuve's day was overshadowed by another star drive from his teammate, but the Canadian did achieve a small personal triumph - Malaysia and Australia were his first back-to-back points finishes since the Japanese and Malaysian Grands Prix of 2000. Not a bad return, considering his 10-position grid penalty for changing his engine before qualifying.
Ensuring bragging rights for at least the next three weeks, the BMW factory team are currently ahead of their old partners Williams in the constructors' championship.
Down at the tail end of the field, Tiago Monteiro failed the make it to the finish for only the second time in his 22-race career, while on the flipside, Yuji Ide scored his first F1 finish, three laps down.
Alonso leaves Australia 14 points to the good in the championship battle, an even bigger gap than he had at the same stage last season. It might seem a lot, but Raikkonen himself could caution him against complacency.
After three rounds in 2003, the Finn was 16 points ahead of Michael Schumacher (who was then languishing in 8th place in the table), but the Ferrari driver beat him to the championship at the final race in Suzuka. There's everything to play for as the European leg of the season approaches.[/QUOTE]
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 05:17 PM |
I'm not really agreeing with Monty on blaming the team either...
If he wants to talk about how he got behind Ralf, you could really look no further than qualifying, when he blew his pole lap.
Again, for the sake of the team, I hope for good battles all year long.
MM needs more race-pace though...
If he wants to talk about how he got behind Ralf, you could really look no further than qualifying, when he blew his pole lap.
Again, for the sake of the team, I hope for good battles all year long.
MM needs more race-pace though...
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 05:20 PM |
Kimi called Juan a "Meatball" the other day...
Aren't they cute?! :lol:
Aren't they cute?! :lol:
| finnRex | 04-03-2006 05:24 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8]Kimi called Juan a "Meatball" the other day...
Aren't they cute?! :lol:[/QUOTE]
I can't help but laugh at this stuff, ya know?:lol: Kinda like grumpy old men...
Mika
Aren't they cute?! :lol:[/QUOTE]
I can't help but laugh at this stuff, ya know?:lol: Kinda like grumpy old men...
Mika
| MattDell | 04-03-2006 05:57 PM |
I know this is a dumb question, but... I thought each driver had their own set of mechanics in the pits, not just one set for each time. For example, I would think that JPM and Raikkonen would be able to enter the pits at the same time and get changed at the same time.
-Matt
-Matt
| artkevin | 04-03-2006 05:58 PM |
Only 1 pit stall. The team has 1 set of mechanics and 2 sets of engineers.
| StuBeck | 04-03-2006 08:33 PM |
[QUOTE=MattDell]I know this is a dumb question, but... I thought each driver had their own set of mechanics in the pits, not just one set for each time. For example, I would think that JPM and Raikkonen would be able to enter the pits at the same time and get changed at the same time.
-Matt[/QUOTE]
That is ChampCar and the IRL.
-Matt[/QUOTE]
That is ChampCar and the IRL.
| endeavor | 04-04-2006 01:07 AM |
Finally got around to watching the race tonight. All I can say is WOW. That was great entertainment, if not great racing.
Poor Jenson. Go Scott Speed! Alonso doesn't have many fanbois outside of Spain, but he should -- the guy is on an entirely different plane of existence. If he didn't look like he was dominating the 2nd half of last season it is probably because he was toying with everyone else :lol:
Oh.. and poor emasculated Fisi :eek:
Poor Jenson. Go Scott Speed! Alonso doesn't have many fanbois outside of Spain, but he should -- the guy is on an entirely different plane of existence. If he didn't look like he was dominating the 2nd half of last season it is probably because he was toying with everyone else :lol:
Oh.. and poor emasculated Fisi :eek:
| endeavor | 04-04-2006 01:14 AM |
[QUOTE=Ferg]Well to be honest we don't know exactly how long Montoya was sitting behind Kimi.[/QUOTE]
Sucks to be watching USDM TV coverage ;) they replayed it on ITV :banana:
JPM lost about 8 seconds while queued up behind Kimi.
Sucks to be watching USDM TV coverage ;) they replayed it on ITV :banana:
JPM lost about 8 seconds while queued up behind Kimi.
| finnRex | 04-04-2006 01:17 AM |
Definitely the best race so far this season. It should only get better.
Mika
Mika
| StuBeck | 04-04-2006 01:12 PM |
[QUOTE=endeavor]Sucks to be watching USDM TV coverage ;) they replayed it on ITV :banana:
JPM lost about 8 seconds while queued up behind Kimi.[/QUOTE]
Yea, they showed the replay on Speed TV during replay, it was about 8 seconds. I don't think Juan knew Kimi's nose was being changed so that is why he was wonderring why it took so long.
JPM lost about 8 seconds while queued up behind Kimi.[/QUOTE]
Yea, they showed the replay on Speed TV during replay, it was about 8 seconds. I don't think Juan knew Kimi's nose was being changed so that is why he was wonderring why it took so long.
| enduroshark | 04-04-2006 02:27 PM |
[QUOTE=Ferg]Well to be honest we don't know exactly how long Montoya was sitting behind Kimi. The camera didn't cut away from the overhead shot until they finished with the nose change, then it was like, "Hey! There's a second McLaren!"
Montoya was right behind Raikonnen on the track, and since they entered the pits at the same time chances are JPM was sitting behind Kimi for the majority of his stop.
I agree with what everyone has said though, it was a hard decision for the team to make and I don't blame Montoya for feeling pissy about it. Had the roles been revered and it was Kimi waiting for Montoya (well first of all the Kimi supporters would be up in arms and calling for blood) I wouldn't be surprised to hear similar comments from Raikonnen.[/QUOTE]
To me, if they knew that they were going to swap Kimi's nosecone, they should have told Kimi to let JPM bye and pit first.
Montoya was right behind Raikonnen on the track, and since they entered the pits at the same time chances are JPM was sitting behind Kimi for the majority of his stop.
I agree with what everyone has said though, it was a hard decision for the team to make and I don't blame Montoya for feeling pissy about it. Had the roles been revered and it was Kimi waiting for Montoya (well first of all the Kimi supporters would be up in arms and calling for blood) I wouldn't be surprised to hear similar comments from Raikonnen.[/QUOTE]
To me, if they knew that they were going to swap Kimi's nosecone, they should have told Kimi to let JPM bye and pit first.
| Chromer | 04-04-2006 02:29 PM |
[QUOTE=enduroshark]To me, if they knew that they were going to swap Kimi's nosecone, they should have told Kimi to let JPM bye and pit first.[/QUOTE]
They showed a replay later. He was held up two or three seconds. Had they not had the trouble getting the new nose to latch, he wouldn't have been held up at all.
They showed a replay later. He was held up two or three seconds. Had they not had the trouble getting the new nose to latch, he wouldn't have been held up at all.
| Ferg | 04-04-2006 02:30 PM |
We've already established from a few people that Montoya was held up for at least eight seconds.
Not the first time Montoya has been bitten by McLaren pit strategy..Canada last year wasn't exactly smooth.
Tough call for any team to make.
Not the first time Montoya has been bitten by McLaren pit strategy..Canada last year wasn't exactly smooth.
Tough call for any team to make.
| Dussander | 04-04-2006 08:41 PM |
Also, JPM lost a couple of spots before one of the restarts because of a spin that did not make it on tv. I recall going... "how the hell did Nick and Ralf get in front of Juan?"
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