| gpatmac | 04-08-2005 05:22 PM |
8.85827"
| ratt_finkel | 04-08-2005 05:26 PM |
[QUOTE=gpatmac]8.85827"[/QUOTE]
Weak, not even close ;)
Weak, not even close ;)
| gpatmac | 04-09-2005 03:18 AM |
Nothing a little online calc couldn't help with.:)
My RS is my autox mobile, but I've wrapped up so much cash into my WRX that I'm going to have to rely on only my skill in G stock for a little while. (read: I won't be winning.)
My RS is my autox mobile, but I've wrapped up so much cash into my WRX that I'm going to have to rely on only my skill in G stock for a little while. (read: I won't be winning.)
| fullup1 | 04-09-2005 12:43 PM |
[QUOTE=ratt_finkel]I can't believe you're running without spacers. In the front I have no clearance issues. But in the rear, if I tired to run without a spacer it would rub all over the strut. Right now I'm getting some rubbing on the spring perch, but it's minimal.
By the way, I picked up my wheels spacers for $10 from a ghetto wheel shop.
I might be able to make it to the above event. All the others are way too far. And as far as I'm aware, there aren't any subaru challenges this year. :([/QUOTE]
No rubbing on the struts or the spring perches, not with the 245/45R16 Victoracers, or any of the 225/50R16s I've run.
Just as a sidenote, the picture I posted was with the stock front swaybar, stock shocks, 245/45R16 Victoracers, and stock alignment.
The Subaru Challenge website hasn't posted the 2005 schedule yet, but I'm optimistic that I'll be able to get to 3 this year, based on the previous events in 2003 and 2004.
By the way, I picked up my wheels spacers for $10 from a ghetto wheel shop.
I might be able to make it to the above event. All the others are way too far. And as far as I'm aware, there aren't any subaru challenges this year. :([/QUOTE]
No rubbing on the struts or the spring perches, not with the 245/45R16 Victoracers, or any of the 225/50R16s I've run.
Just as a sidenote, the picture I posted was with the stock front swaybar, stock shocks, 245/45R16 Victoracers, and stock alignment.
The Subaru Challenge website hasn't posted the 2005 schedule yet, but I'm optimistic that I'll be able to get to 3 this year, based on the previous events in 2003 and 2004.
| ratt_finkel | 04-11-2005 12:32 PM |
That just baffles me. Here are pics of the rear suspension with the 1/8 inch spacer. You didn't rub with the 245's in the rear either?
[img]http://www.hondavision.com/photohosting/data/500/110710_rearsus.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.hondavision.com/photohosting/data/500/110710rearfacingback.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.hondavision.com/photohosting/data/500/110710_rearsus.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.hondavision.com/photohosting/data/500/110710rearfacingback.jpg[/img]
| fullup1 | 04-11-2005 03:01 PM |
Yeah, no rubbing with 225s or 245s. The only location where I had a problem was on the outside lip where the rubber was worn away, but after putting the shocks on that was all fixed.
I'll take a look at the clearance and see if I can find a camera to get a picture or two. I'm also not running stock Subaru rims, although the offset is claimed to be the same as stock.
I'll take a look at the clearance and see if I can find a camera to get a picture or two. I'm also not running stock Subaru rims, although the offset is claimed to be the same as stock.
| ratt_finkel | 04-11-2005 04:21 PM |
Yeah, your offset must be different. When I try to mount my rims wiithout spacers, you can hear the tire rubbing on the strut.
| McGuyver | 04-12-2005 02:07 PM |
Sorry to change the subject, but if you were thinking about running GS with a limited budget would you suggest running the Kumho 710s with AGX struts all around or use the Koni/AGX combination and choose the Victoracers instead?
Thanks,
Chris
Thanks,
Chris
| ratt_finkel | 04-12-2005 03:16 PM |
I would defintely run the 710's. A front bar is also a must. Any shocks will help over the stock ones. The ultimate setup has yet to be determined. Hopefully thats something I and fullup1 can figure out.
I'd also suggest as much seat time as possible.
I'd also suggest as much seat time as possible.
| fullup1 | 04-12-2005 03:31 PM |
I'll second that, the V710s are amazing, and getting lots of seat time is always important.
| 10th Warrior | 04-12-2005 03:38 PM |
budget wise, i'd suggest this progression
Ecsta V700s-->V710s-->22mm front bar-->AGX-->spending captial playing with fancy shocks-->spending more capital doing weight reduction/power increases-->laugh at Chiles and pick up Jacket ;)
Ecsta V700s-->V710s-->22mm front bar-->AGX-->spending captial playing with fancy shocks-->spending more capital doing weight reduction/power increases-->laugh at Chiles and pick up Jacket ;)
| ratt_finkel | 04-12-2005 03:48 PM |
[QUOTE=10th Warrior]budget wise, i'd suggest this progression
Ecsta V700s-->V710s-->22mm front bar-->AGX-->spending captial playing with fancy shocks-->spending more capital doing weight reduction/power increases-->laugh at Chiles and pick up Jacket ;)[/QUOTE]
The last 3 are going to be a PITA!
Ecsta V700s-->V710s-->22mm front bar-->AGX-->spending captial playing with fancy shocks-->spending more capital doing weight reduction/power increases-->laugh at Chiles and pick up Jacket ;)[/QUOTE]
The last 3 are going to be a PITA!
| McGuyver | 04-12-2005 04:16 PM |
I already have the 22mm front bar but I'm not so sure about the laughter thing. With my rudimentary driving skills I think I've got a little ways to go before I start worrying how I'll look in my jacket.
| 10th Warrior | 04-12-2005 04:22 PM |
[QUOTE=ratt_finkel]The last 3 are going to be a PITA![/QUOTE]
well, no one said it would be easy :p hell, i gave up and whored my way into ESP :)
though in your specific case, i would also mention put the hood plates back on and take the strut brace off, or it will be Chiles who laughs at you ;)
well, no one said it would be easy :p hell, i gave up and whored my way into ESP :)
though in your specific case, i would also mention put the hood plates back on and take the strut brace off, or it will be Chiles who laughs at you ;)
| ratt_finkel | 04-12-2005 04:44 PM |
[QUOTE=10th Warrior]well, no one said it would be easy :p hell, i gave up and whored my way into ESP :)
though in your specific case, i would also mention put the hood plates back on and take the strut brace off, or it will be Chiles who laughs at you ;)[/QUOTE]
haha, the strut bar is up for sale. And I'm currently looking for a used hood scoop plate. I have to dig through the garage to find the other two. FYI, I took the bar off for houston, and honestly didn't notice any difference. And I don't think that Mark is capable of laughter.
though in your specific case, i would also mention put the hood plates back on and take the strut brace off, or it will be Chiles who laughs at you ;)[/QUOTE]
haha, the strut bar is up for sale. And I'm currently looking for a used hood scoop plate. I have to dig through the garage to find the other two. FYI, I took the bar off for houston, and honestly didn't notice any difference. And I don't think that Mark is capable of laughter.
| fullup1 | 04-12-2005 05:32 PM |
Please elaborate on the "weight reduction" and "power increases." Inquiring minds would like to know.
As for my wheels, I just looked this up because I was nervous about having the wrong offset (not like anyone will protest last place):
Kazera KZ-U............offset +50mm
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/servlet/CallJsp?target=wheelSearchCloseUp&wheelIndex=10&sizeIndex=0&showRear=no&setIndex=2&filterSize=16&filterFinish=&filterSpecial=Pricing[/url]
Stock wheels...........offset +53mm (at the bottom of the page)
[url]http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/rims/rims.html[/url]
As for my wheels, I just looked this up because I was nervous about having the wrong offset (not like anyone will protest last place):
Kazera KZ-U............offset +50mm
[url]http://www.tirerack.com/servlet/CallJsp?target=wheelSearchCloseUp&wheelIndex=10&sizeIndex=0&showRear=no&setIndex=2&filterSize=16&filterFinish=&filterSpecial=Pricing[/url]
Stock wheels...........offset +53mm (at the bottom of the page)
[url]http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/rims/rims.html[/url]
| ratt_finkel | 04-12-2005 06:33 PM |
Well I only weigh about 120 soaking wet. So I've got a large advantage there. Lighter wheels, and a straight pipe is about all you're going to do for weight. And power, who knows.
| ratt_finkel | 04-13-2005 12:24 PM |
Well I spoke Brian Priebe last night. He never had a chance to expierement with a front bar. And such, has problems with terminal understeer. He did the revalved konis in the front to basically trick the AWD. He made the front supper stiff, which would cause the front to lift, spinning a wheel, and sending power to the rear.
He used the KYB's in the back because he thought they did a better job in the compression department.
He also said have are work cut out for us. And to buy an L and campaign that in HS. ha!
EDIT: Trying to remember the rest of the conversation. He said KYB's would be better all around if you are not going to do DA Koni's in the front. And added that the DA weren't that much quicker on the RS.
He used the KYB's in the back because he thought they did a better job in the compression department.
He also said have are work cut out for us. And to buy an L and campaign that in HS. ha!
EDIT: Trying to remember the rest of the conversation. He said KYB's would be better all around if you are not going to do DA Koni's in the front. And added that the DA weren't that much quicker on the RS.
| makofoto | 04-13-2005 01:10 PM |
>>>front to lift, spinning a wheel, and sending power to the rear<<<
... if you don't have an active center dif ... no extra power will be sent to the rear. You just lose power/acceleration, and heat up the inside of that spinning tire ...
... if you don't have an active center dif ... no extra power will be sent to the rear. You just lose power/acceleration, and heat up the inside of that spinning tire ...
| 10th Warrior | 04-13-2005 02:56 PM |
[quote]And I don't think that Mark is capable of laughter.[/quote]
damn, you picked up GS pretty darn quick :) especially for a Texan :p
[quote]And to buy an L and campaign that in HS[/quote]
97 is the year you want and no, i haven't thought/researched seriously about this ;)
or, you could continue doing what you're doing but then sandbag at Nats and try to get the RS moved down to HS for next year :)
as for weight reduction, basically just wheels and exhaust. as for power, exhaust, air filter, and 'building' the engine. AKA, spending lots of $$$ for not much performance gain :cool:
damn, you picked up GS pretty darn quick :) especially for a Texan :p
[quote]And to buy an L and campaign that in HS[/quote]
97 is the year you want and no, i haven't thought/researched seriously about this ;)
or, you could continue doing what you're doing but then sandbag at Nats and try to get the RS moved down to HS for next year :)
as for weight reduction, basically just wheels and exhaust. as for power, exhaust, air filter, and 'building' the engine. AKA, spending lots of $$$ for not much performance gain :cool:
| fullup1 | 04-13-2005 04:28 PM |
I had already looked into the lightweight wheel subject and this is the best I could come up with. Based on tire weights and wheel weights listed on Tirerack's specifications pages:
Current Setup:
16x7 Kazera KZ-U...........16.5 lbs each
225/50R16 V710.............24 lbs each
Total weight per corner...40.5 lbs
Lightest Setup I could find:
16x7 SSR Comp...............11.0 lbs each
205/45R16 Hoosier...........17.0 lbs each
Total weight per corner.....28.0 lbs
How much is a 12.5 lb reduction per corner worth? SSR Comps are >$300 a piece and the Hoosiers have a slightly smaller tread width, but also a smaller overall diameter.
Current Setup:
16x7 Kazera KZ-U...........16.5 lbs each
225/50R16 V710.............24 lbs each
Total weight per corner...40.5 lbs
Lightest Setup I could find:
16x7 SSR Comp...............11.0 lbs each
205/45R16 Hoosier...........17.0 lbs each
Total weight per corner.....28.0 lbs
How much is a 12.5 lb reduction per corner worth? SSR Comps are >$300 a piece and the Hoosiers have a slightly smaller tread width, but also a smaller overall diameter.
| 10th Warrior | 04-13-2005 05:03 PM |
the 215/40 hoosiers were hell on the car, the 205s would be even worse. if you want to be a contender, you need 225s at least. consider this fairwarning ;)
The SSR's would probably be a good choice if you have the money. there might be lighter wheels out there too. may have to go custom :cool: FWIW, the stockers are only 16lbs.
The SSR's would probably be a good choice if you have the money. there might be lighter wheels out there too. may have to go custom :cool: FWIW, the stockers are only 16lbs.
| ratt_finkel | 04-13-2005 06:05 PM |
I'm sticking with the stockers. Used Volk Te37's can be had farily cheaply if you keep your eyes peeled. I think they are a tad lighter than the SSRs.
[b]makofoto[/b]
This is just what he told me, and what he did to get the car to rotate. Personally, I think the car is fairly neutral the way it is setup right now.
[b]makofoto[/b]
This is just what he told me, and what he did to get the car to rotate. Personally, I think the car is fairly neutral the way it is setup right now.
| fullup1 | 04-17-2005 10:07 PM |
Here's the most recent video of my car going around the right course at the Atlanta ProSolo:
[url]http://filebox.vt.edu/users/pgillett/23%20GS%20-%20ATL%20PRO.AVI[/url]
By the end of the second day I thought the car was moving around quite nicely, with tire pressures at 42F/32R, rear shocks full stiff, front shocks full soft.
Not completely disappointing:
[url]http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/solo-05atlantaps-sun.pdf[/url]
3 Mini's and 1 Celica ahead
3 Mini's and 1 Celica behind
[url]http://filebox.vt.edu/users/pgillett/23%20GS%20-%20ATL%20PRO.AVI[/url]
By the end of the second day I thought the car was moving around quite nicely, with tire pressures at 42F/32R, rear shocks full stiff, front shocks full soft.
Not completely disappointing:
[url]http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/solo-05atlantaps-sun.pdf[/url]
3 Mini's and 1 Celica ahead
3 Mini's and 1 Celica behind
| ratt_finkel | 04-18-2005 10:02 AM |
[QUOTE=fullup1]Here's the most recent video of my car going around the right course at the Atlanta ProSolo:
[url]http://filebox.vt.edu/users/pgillett/23%20GS%20-%20ATL%20PRO.AVI[/url]
By the end of the second day I thought the car was moving around quite nicely, with tire pressures at 42F/32R, rear shocks full stiff, front shocks full soft.
Not completely disappointing:
[url]http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/solo-05atlantaps-sun.pdf[/url]
3 Mini's and 1 Celica ahead
3 Mini's and 1 Celica behind[/QUOTE]
Damn Phillip, just one tenth out of the wood. Looks like you had a close weekend. And thanks for beating Craig, I lost to him in Arkansas.
But man, we have to win in the prosolos. How were the "new" mini's launching?
[url]http://filebox.vt.edu/users/pgillett/23%20GS%20-%20ATL%20PRO.AVI[/url]
By the end of the second day I thought the car was moving around quite nicely, with tire pressures at 42F/32R, rear shocks full stiff, front shocks full soft.
Not completely disappointing:
[url]http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/solo-05atlantaps-sun.pdf[/url]
3 Mini's and 1 Celica ahead
3 Mini's and 1 Celica behind[/QUOTE]
Damn Phillip, just one tenth out of the wood. Looks like you had a close weekend. And thanks for beating Craig, I lost to him in Arkansas.
But man, we have to win in the prosolos. How were the "new" mini's launching?
| fullup1 | 04-18-2005 10:25 AM |
Yeah, if the Subarus are going to hold it down anywhere, it's got to be in ProSolo.
As for the Mini launches, just about every Mini driver had 0.5xx RT's all weekend. I started at 0.7xx, moved down to 0.6xx Saturday afternoon, and finally got a few 0.5xx Sunday morning (including one 0.507, but I screwed up that run by trying to do part of the course in neutral....honestly could have been the difference between 5th and 2nd if I had just run the course normally).
I have a few time slips here from when I was paired up with Mark Bishop (05 Mini), a very nice guy by the way. I'm 23 GS, Mark is 98 GS:
[U]Saturday PM:[/U]
23 GS L - 28.388 ET, 0.669 RT, 2.078 60'
98 GS R - 27.451 ET, 0.631 RT, 2.339 60'
98 GS L - 28.120 ET, 0.575 RT, 2.199 60'
23 GS R - 27.508 ET, 0.656 RT, 2.110 60'
23 GS L - 28.529 ET, 0.604 RT, 1.993 60'
98 GS R - 27.338 ET, 0.578 RT, 2.261 60'
98 GS L - 28.020 ET, 0.683 RT, 2.252 60'
23 GS R - 27.556 ET, 0.635 RT, 2.152 60'
This is how I matched up against Philip Currin, 6 GS, in his Celica:
[U]Saturday AM:[/U]
23 GS L - 28.820 ET, 0.718 RT, 2.006 60'
6 GS R - 28.008 ET, 0.667 RT, 2.452 60'
6 GS L - 28.610 ET, 0.619 RT, 2.333 60'
23 GS R - 27.530 ET, 0.722 RT, 2.079 60'
[U]Sunday AM:[/U]
23 GS L - 28.737 ET, 0.608 RT, 2.114 60'
6 GS R - 28.376 ET, 0.404 RT, 2.695 60' -- RL
6 GS L - 28.560 ET, 0.441 RT, 2.479 60' -- RL
23 GS R - 27.384 ET, 0.618 RT, 2.189 60'
23 GS L - 27.755 ET, 0.578 RT, 2.113 60'
6 GS R - 27.257 ET, 0.697 RT, 2.333 60'
6 GS L - 28.177 ET, 0.702 RT, 2.305 60'
23 GS R - 28.686 ET, 0.507 RT, 2.114 60'
The bottom run where I ran a 28.686 was where I ran part of the course in neutral. I'm not sure if I accidentally hit the car out of 2nd or if it popped out on its own, but one way or another I was going through a sweeper with a free-revving engine. But for my first ProSolo, I've very satisfied.
As for the Mini launches, just about every Mini driver had 0.5xx RT's all weekend. I started at 0.7xx, moved down to 0.6xx Saturday afternoon, and finally got a few 0.5xx Sunday morning (including one 0.507, but I screwed up that run by trying to do part of the course in neutral....honestly could have been the difference between 5th and 2nd if I had just run the course normally).
I have a few time slips here from when I was paired up with Mark Bishop (05 Mini), a very nice guy by the way. I'm 23 GS, Mark is 98 GS:
[U]Saturday PM:[/U]
23 GS L - 28.388 ET, 0.669 RT, 2.078 60'
98 GS R - 27.451 ET, 0.631 RT, 2.339 60'
98 GS L - 28.120 ET, 0.575 RT, 2.199 60'
23 GS R - 27.508 ET, 0.656 RT, 2.110 60'
23 GS L - 28.529 ET, 0.604 RT, 1.993 60'
98 GS R - 27.338 ET, 0.578 RT, 2.261 60'
98 GS L - 28.020 ET, 0.683 RT, 2.252 60'
23 GS R - 27.556 ET, 0.635 RT, 2.152 60'
This is how I matched up against Philip Currin, 6 GS, in his Celica:
[U]Saturday AM:[/U]
23 GS L - 28.820 ET, 0.718 RT, 2.006 60'
6 GS R - 28.008 ET, 0.667 RT, 2.452 60'
6 GS L - 28.610 ET, 0.619 RT, 2.333 60'
23 GS R - 27.530 ET, 0.722 RT, 2.079 60'
[U]Sunday AM:[/U]
23 GS L - 28.737 ET, 0.608 RT, 2.114 60'
6 GS R - 28.376 ET, 0.404 RT, 2.695 60' -- RL
6 GS L - 28.560 ET, 0.441 RT, 2.479 60' -- RL
23 GS R - 27.384 ET, 0.618 RT, 2.189 60'
23 GS L - 27.755 ET, 0.578 RT, 2.113 60'
6 GS R - 27.257 ET, 0.697 RT, 2.333 60'
6 GS L - 28.177 ET, 0.702 RT, 2.305 60'
23 GS R - 28.686 ET, 0.507 RT, 2.114 60'
The bottom run where I ran a 28.686 was where I ran part of the course in neutral. I'm not sure if I accidentally hit the car out of 2nd or if it popped out on its own, but one way or another I was going through a sweeper with a free-revving engine. But for my first ProSolo, I've very satisfied.
| ratt_finkel | 04-18-2005 11:40 AM |
Those are some pretty nice launches by the FWD cars. But obviously you were more consitent. Now if you could've pulled the 1.9 60' every time ;)
Nice job by the way. I really wanted to try prosolo this year. But there none close. So maybe next year. Oh, and hopefully I'll be ordering some AGX's this week. So I'll let you know how those work out. Have you tried running your shock setting opposite of what they are now?
How does the car handle right now? As far as balance wise.
Nice job by the way. I really wanted to try prosolo this year. But there none close. So maybe next year. Oh, and hopefully I'll be ordering some AGX's this week. So I'll let you know how those work out. Have you tried running your shock setting opposite of what they are now?
How does the car handle right now? As far as balance wise.
| fullup1 | 04-18-2005 12:04 PM |
I've tried running the shocks at full stiff all the way around, and I've also tried running half stiff up front and full stiff at the rear, neither of which I particularly cared for. Both ways felt like they were helping to induce understeer, and these were the only changes to the car at the time, aka constant tire pressures.
With these settings, front full soft, rear full stiff, 42F/32R, max front neg camber, neutral toe front and rear, the car likes to square corners and twitch all over the course.
I've been told that dropping or raising pressure in the rear both cause the car to rotate, but that raising the pressure causes the rotation to be more predictable. I personally haven't had any luck with raised pressures, up to 60 psi, so maybe I just haven't set the pressure high enough. Personally I like the twitch caused by the lower rear pressure, but maybe that's just me.
I guess setting toe out at the rear would help the car as well, but right now the car feels very predictable and yet still rotates the way I'd like. I still have to get on the brakes early, the car just gives me a little help getting pointed in the right direction so I don't have to drop as much speed.
With these settings, front full soft, rear full stiff, 42F/32R, max front neg camber, neutral toe front and rear, the car likes to square corners and twitch all over the course.
I've been told that dropping or raising pressure in the rear both cause the car to rotate, but that raising the pressure causes the rotation to be more predictable. I personally haven't had any luck with raised pressures, up to 60 psi, so maybe I just haven't set the pressure high enough. Personally I like the twitch caused by the lower rear pressure, but maybe that's just me.
I guess setting toe out at the rear would help the car as well, but right now the car feels very predictable and yet still rotates the way I'd like. I still have to get on the brakes early, the car just gives me a little help getting pointed in the right direction so I don't have to drop as much speed.
| ratt_finkel | 04-18-2005 12:29 PM |
[QUOTE=fullup1]blah blah blah[/QUOTE]
I had an EVO instructor tell me the same thing. And I've always chosen to run the higher rear pressures. That is something I'm going to be expierementing with this weekend. 37 front, 42 rear most likely. Or a tad lower in the front since it's a low grip ashpault site.
Are you still using stock pads? I'm on 53k mile pads and fluid. And think it's about time for an upgrade.
So do you think the car is neutral, or are you still having understeer problems?
That doesn't make any sense that full stiff in the rear added more understeer. :confused:
I had an EVO instructor tell me the same thing. And I've always chosen to run the higher rear pressures. That is something I'm going to be expierementing with this weekend. 37 front, 42 rear most likely. Or a tad lower in the front since it's a low grip ashpault site.
Are you still using stock pads? I'm on 53k mile pads and fluid. And think it's about time for an upgrade.
So do you think the car is neutral, or are you still having understeer problems?
That doesn't make any sense that full stiff in the rear added more understeer. :confused:
| fullup1 | 04-18-2005 02:44 PM |
Yes, I'm still on the stock pads, but as soon as I have enough money I'll go for either some Carbotech Bobcat brake pads (suggested by Kevin Allen -- Fred), or some Porterfield RS-4's. I was on the stock front pads up until 8K miles ago, and although my car is a 2000, it only has 50K miles on the odometer.
Compared to being bone stock, I would say the car is much closer to neutral, at least for the way I drive. Turning up the rear shocks isn't what induces my understeer, it's pretty much the relative stiffness of the front compared to the rear that does that for me. When the front shocks are turned all the way down I just find that the front turns in a little better than with the front shocks at higher settings.
The reason I don't try other settings in the rear other than full stiff is that I figure I would just be wasting my time, as the relative stiffness from rear to front would just go down, making the car want to understeer anyway.
It's possible that I'm just driving around the understeer, but I can definitely tell the car feels different set up this way than it did before the shocks or swaybar went on.
Thankfully all we have to worry about in stock class is the alignment, tire pressures, shock settings, and front bar sizes, since getting everything together for STS or DSP would make my head spin.
When you get your KYB's on maybe you could just starting where I've got things, and if you find that it doesn't suit your driving style, start dialing up the front settings. Something that helped me out was having a few codrivers at a local test and tune, although we did go through a set of R-comps pretty fast that way. As for tire pressures, I think you might want to set the back much higher to get the rotation you're looking for, Chris Perera put something like 65 psi into Tara's rear tires and only then did they feel the car reacting the way they wanted. I'm not really a fan of overinflating my tires, so I'll stick with lower, it feels nice so far.
Compared to being bone stock, I would say the car is much closer to neutral, at least for the way I drive. Turning up the rear shocks isn't what induces my understeer, it's pretty much the relative stiffness of the front compared to the rear that does that for me. When the front shocks are turned all the way down I just find that the front turns in a little better than with the front shocks at higher settings.
The reason I don't try other settings in the rear other than full stiff is that I figure I would just be wasting my time, as the relative stiffness from rear to front would just go down, making the car want to understeer anyway.
It's possible that I'm just driving around the understeer, but I can definitely tell the car feels different set up this way than it did before the shocks or swaybar went on.
Thankfully all we have to worry about in stock class is the alignment, tire pressures, shock settings, and front bar sizes, since getting everything together for STS or DSP would make my head spin.
When you get your KYB's on maybe you could just starting where I've got things, and if you find that it doesn't suit your driving style, start dialing up the front settings. Something that helped me out was having a few codrivers at a local test and tune, although we did go through a set of R-comps pretty fast that way. As for tire pressures, I think you might want to set the back much higher to get the rotation you're looking for, Chris Perera put something like 65 psi into Tara's rear tires and only then did they feel the car reacting the way they wanted. I'm not really a fan of overinflating my tires, so I'll stick with lower, it feels nice so far.
| ratt_finkel | 04-18-2005 05:43 PM |
[QUOTE=fullup1]Yes, I'm still on the stock pads, but as soon as I have enough money I'll go for either some Carbotech Bobcat brake pads (suggested by Kevin Allen -- Fred), or some Porterfield RS-4's. I was on the stock front pads up until 8K miles ago, and although my car is a 2000, it only has 50K miles on the odometer.
Compared to being bone stock, I would say the car is much closer to neutral, at least for the way I drive. Turning up the rear shocks isn't what induces my understeer, it's pretty much the relative stiffness of the front compared to the rear that does that for me. When the front shocks are turned all the way down I just find that the front turns in a little better than with the front shocks at higher settings.
The reason I don't try other settings in the rear other than full stiff is that I figure I would just be wasting my time, as the relative stiffness from rear to front would just go down, making the car want to understeer anyway.
It's possible that I'm just driving around the understeer, but I can definitely tell the car feels different set up this way than it did before the shocks or swaybar went on.
Thankfully all we have to worry about in stock class is the alignment, tire pressures, shock settings, and front bar sizes, since getting everything together for STS or DSP would make my head spin.
When you get your KYB's on maybe you could just starting where I've got things, and if you find that it doesn't suit your driving style, start dialing up the front settings. Something that helped me out was having a few codrivers at a local test and tune, although we did go through a set of R-comps pretty fast that way. As for tire pressures, I think you might want to set the back much higher to get the rotation you're looking for, Chris Perera put something like 65 psi into Tara's rear tires and only then did they feel the car reacting the way they wanted. I'm not really a fan of overinflating my tires, so I'll stick with lower, it feels nice so far.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I would never go that high. I've ran a tad bit higher than 50 in the past, and was fine. But I'm not going to compromise so expensive rubber. But I think, and hope low 40's will get the rotation back to where I want it.
As far as the shocks, I will consider your settings, but honestly. It's different for everyone, and will do most of my own testing. I'll be setting the front to full-stiff, and work on maximizing grip there before I ever touch the rears.
Not sure what pads I'm going to go with yet :(
Just found out I'm not getting a new job which would've pretty much eliminated any money problems I have. So that sucks.
Compared to being bone stock, I would say the car is much closer to neutral, at least for the way I drive. Turning up the rear shocks isn't what induces my understeer, it's pretty much the relative stiffness of the front compared to the rear that does that for me. When the front shocks are turned all the way down I just find that the front turns in a little better than with the front shocks at higher settings.
The reason I don't try other settings in the rear other than full stiff is that I figure I would just be wasting my time, as the relative stiffness from rear to front would just go down, making the car want to understeer anyway.
It's possible that I'm just driving around the understeer, but I can definitely tell the car feels different set up this way than it did before the shocks or swaybar went on.
Thankfully all we have to worry about in stock class is the alignment, tire pressures, shock settings, and front bar sizes, since getting everything together for STS or DSP would make my head spin.
When you get your KYB's on maybe you could just starting where I've got things, and if you find that it doesn't suit your driving style, start dialing up the front settings. Something that helped me out was having a few codrivers at a local test and tune, although we did go through a set of R-comps pretty fast that way. As for tire pressures, I think you might want to set the back much higher to get the rotation you're looking for, Chris Perera put something like 65 psi into Tara's rear tires and only then did they feel the car reacting the way they wanted. I'm not really a fan of overinflating my tires, so I'll stick with lower, it feels nice so far.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I would never go that high. I've ran a tad bit higher than 50 in the past, and was fine. But I'm not going to compromise so expensive rubber. But I think, and hope low 40's will get the rotation back to where I want it.
As far as the shocks, I will consider your settings, but honestly. It's different for everyone, and will do most of my own testing. I'll be setting the front to full-stiff, and work on maximizing grip there before I ever touch the rears.
Not sure what pads I'm going to go with yet :(
Just found out I'm not getting a new job which would've pretty much eliminated any money problems I have. So that sucks.
| fullup1 | 04-18-2005 10:55 PM |
Sorry to hear about the job situation, I'm still in school right now, so I'm fortunate to have understanding parents to fund my addiction. Although grad school is just around the corner, and I hear the stipend isn't too shabby....
As for car setup, I absolutely agree with you, it's totally up to the driver and driving style. For instance, when I used to have my Volvo 240 in HS, my codriver at local events would use a somewhat more violent driving style, and I had a somewhat more smooth style (these are observations from passengers), and yet there were times when we are separated by only a few tenths.
Let me know how the suspension testing goes, and hopefully we'll get to the same event sooner or later.
As for car setup, I absolutely agree with you, it's totally up to the driver and driving style. For instance, when I used to have my Volvo 240 in HS, my codriver at local events would use a somewhat more violent driving style, and I had a somewhat more smooth style (these are observations from passengers), and yet there were times when we are separated by only a few tenths.
Let me know how the suspension testing goes, and hopefully we'll get to the same event sooner or later.
| 10th Warrior | 04-19-2005 02:40 PM |
you need to launch harder. you should be running 1.9-2.0 60' all day long (heard the start was downhill, too?) with low .5 RT's. the car is very, very easy to launch consistently once you get used to it :) 6k and go :cool:
glad you had fun.
glad you had fun.
| fullup1 | 04-19-2005 04:01 PM |
Thanks for the advice.
Unfortunately the ProSolo folks decided to stop selling practice start tickets 10 minutes early, they were supposed to stop at 5:00 and they stopped at 4:50. Then when I said "isn't it only 4:50" they insisted that it was definitely past 5. So I got back in my car and drove back to the paddock area only to check my car clock, my radio clock, and my cell phone, all of which said it was 4:52 at that point. Needless to say, I didn't get a chance to get any practice starts.
For the 2 weeks leading up to the ProSolo I had been trying to get to a local 1/8th mile track, but everytime they were open for test and tunes a bunch of storms would come through the area. I would say that I'm trying to get to the track this Thursday, but that would jinx it, so I'm NOT going to the track this Thursday.
Bah, it'll probably rain anyway. Stupid Bleaksburg.
Unfortunately the ProSolo folks decided to stop selling practice start tickets 10 minutes early, they were supposed to stop at 5:00 and they stopped at 4:50. Then when I said "isn't it only 4:50" they insisted that it was definitely past 5. So I got back in my car and drove back to the paddock area only to check my car clock, my radio clock, and my cell phone, all of which said it was 4:52 at that point. Needless to say, I didn't get a chance to get any practice starts.
For the 2 weeks leading up to the ProSolo I had been trying to get to a local 1/8th mile track, but everytime they were open for test and tunes a bunch of storms would come through the area. I would say that I'm trying to get to the track this Thursday, but that would jinx it, so I'm NOT going to the track this Thursday.
Bah, it'll probably rain anyway. Stupid Bleaksburg.
| ratt_finkel | 04-19-2005 04:04 PM |
haha, damn Jeff! 6k!?!?
I launch from about 4-5k with an aggressive slip. Of course, I've never been to the track, so who knows that times I'm pulling.
I launch from about 4-5k with an aggressive slip. Of course, I've never been to the track, so who knows that times I'm pulling.
| 10th Warrior | 04-19-2005 04:51 PM |
oh, come on Jeremy. The RS has no motor, its fine :) seriously though, every Pro, rev it up to 6k and hold. just after the last yellow comes on, do a fast slip and aaaway we go :) its fun smoking a Z06 in a drag race (to 60', but who's counting :) ).
anyway, yeah, it just takes a little practice. since there is so little wheelspin, its very easy to be consistent once you get the hang of it.
anyway, yeah, it just takes a little practice. since there is so little wheelspin, its very easy to be consistent once you get the hang of it.
| ratt_finkel | 04-19-2005 06:55 PM |
Eh, I usually bog after about 30-40ft if I try that, and then my clutch is mad at me for 15 minutes.
EDIT: Phillip, I'm still boggled as to how you are not rubbing with either of the tire combo's you ran.
What would my offset be with 1/8 inch spacers on stock RS rims? Would dialing out some negative camber help with rubbing on the spring perch?
EDIT: Phillip, I'm still boggled as to how you are not rubbing with either of the tire combo's you ran.
What would my offset be with 1/8 inch spacers on stock RS rims? Would dialing out some negative camber help with rubbing on the spring perch?
| fullup1 | 04-20-2005 08:37 AM |
Your offset with 1/8 inch spacers should be 53-3.175 or 49.825mm, and since I'm running 50mm that should be just about what I've got. You're allowed to run up to the 1/4 inch spacer, so why not just spring for that if you're going to run spacers at all. Then your offset would be 53-6.35 or 46.65mm.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I'm going to say it's the color. These red ones are just more tolerant to larger tires.
Honestly though, I really don't know why this is the case, sorry. Maybe a 3mm change in offset is enough to alleviate the rubbing on the strut?
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I'm going to say it's the color. These red ones are just more tolerant to larger tires.
Honestly though, I really don't know why this is the case, sorry. Maybe a 3mm change in offset is enough to alleviate the rubbing on the strut?
| ratt_finkel | 04-20-2005 12:05 PM |
HAHA, I knew SRP was special. But not that special!
I need to get longer wheel studs if I'm going to run anything bigger than the current spacer. Unless you want to see a subaru lose a wheel too.
I need to get longer wheel studs if I'm going to run anything bigger than the current spacer. Unless you want to see a subaru lose a wheel too.
| 10th Warrior | 04-20-2005 01:37 PM |
[quote]Unless you want to see a subaru lose a wheel too.[/quote]
seen it, but that was due to 4 lug nuts.
seen it, but that was due to 4 lug nuts.
| Orion | 05-25-2005 04:16 PM |
Hmm, depending on how the Toledo Tour goes, I just might have to try the Pro up there....
Oh yeah, here's an overweight GSer for ya:
IPD 22mm bar with OEM bushings crammed in there!
Noltec front endlinks
Stromung axleback
K&N drop-in
1 set new A3SO4's, 2 sets highly abused Victos, all 225/50-16 on stock wheels
AGX's, broken LF stuck on full soft (thankfully it's not on full stiff)
-1.0 camber both fronts, -1.4 both rears (ugh)
.10" toe out front, /05" toe out rear
carbotech bobcats not installed yet
[img]http://richard.safier.com/OVR/P1/images/dsc_0171.jpg[/img]
Oh yeah, here's an overweight GSer for ya:
IPD 22mm bar with OEM bushings crammed in there!
Noltec front endlinks
Stromung axleback
K&N drop-in
1 set new A3SO4's, 2 sets highly abused Victos, all 225/50-16 on stock wheels
AGX's, broken LF stuck on full soft (thankfully it's not on full stiff)
-1.0 camber both fronts, -1.4 both rears (ugh)
.10" toe out front, /05" toe out rear
carbotech bobcats not installed yet
[img]http://richard.safier.com/OVR/P1/images/dsc_0171.jpg[/img]
| ratt_finkel | 03-09-2006 11:18 AM |
Well I've decided to give the RS another shot this year despite how badly I got my rear kicked at nationals.
I found out that that Addco makes a 1" front bar for the 2nd gen legacy and it's a direct fit for the RS. I'll be ordering that next week. And Also a pair of Koni's for the front.
I need to do everything possible to increase front grip. And need a revalve on the fronts. FYI, I'm currently running the AGX's on full stiff and they are awesome. The car is much more predictable now and it really tightend things up.
How should I get the Koni's revalved? Again, I am trying to acheive max grip in the front. I may also be expiermenting with hoosier's in 245/45 flavor for the front. Assuming Kumho doesn't release that size this year.
I may have asked this in the past, but what are some good endlinks?
EDIT: I ran the Kumho's really low this weekend by accident. 25psi front and 20 rear. I lost some transitional response, but the results speak for themselves. This pax win was actually with a DS pax. As you can see from the pics, there was no roll-over even at these presures. And the car still rotated and did everything else I asked of it.
[url]http://www.houscca.com/solo/results06/06SUB-INDEXED.TXT[/url]
[img]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f26/fastseven90/100_5153.jpg[/img]
And tom, you have PM.
I found out that that Addco makes a 1" front bar for the 2nd gen legacy and it's a direct fit for the RS. I'll be ordering that next week. And Also a pair of Koni's for the front.
I need to do everything possible to increase front grip. And need a revalve on the fronts. FYI, I'm currently running the AGX's on full stiff and they are awesome. The car is much more predictable now and it really tightend things up.
How should I get the Koni's revalved? Again, I am trying to acheive max grip in the front. I may also be expiermenting with hoosier's in 245/45 flavor for the front. Assuming Kumho doesn't release that size this year.
I may have asked this in the past, but what are some good endlinks?
EDIT: I ran the Kumho's really low this weekend by accident. 25psi front and 20 rear. I lost some transitional response, but the results speak for themselves. This pax win was actually with a DS pax. As you can see from the pics, there was no roll-over even at these presures. And the car still rotated and did everything else I asked of it.
[url]http://www.houscca.com/solo/results06/06SUB-INDEXED.TXT[/url]
[img]http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f26/fastseven90/100_5153.jpg[/img]
And tom, you have PM.
| trhoppe | 03-09-2006 11:18 AM |
How about a 28mm whiteline bar? ;)
PM fo info
-Tom
PM fo info
-Tom
| Draken | 03-09-2006 11:39 AM |
After PM'ing Hoppe, I have these suggestion:
Revalve the front konis with substantial low-speed rebound, and de-gas them.
245/45-16 can work on the front, I ran this setup back in 2002. The wider tire help with front grip on typical NT courses with sweepers. It deadended the steering somewhat, compared to 225 front tires, on high transition courses, like Weondover Pro. So, have a set of 225 for all around, and a pair of 245 for sweeper events.
Learn to love rear toe-out. Learn to adjust it between runs.
Make your own end links out of heim joints. Maybe Andy Howe will chime in, he made some.
Good luck,
Chris H.
Revalve the front konis with substantial low-speed rebound, and de-gas them.
245/45-16 can work on the front, I ran this setup back in 2002. The wider tire help with front grip on typical NT courses with sweepers. It deadended the steering somewhat, compared to 225 front tires, on high transition courses, like Weondover Pro. So, have a set of 225 for all around, and a pair of 245 for sweeper events.
Learn to love rear toe-out. Learn to adjust it between runs.
Make your own end links out of heim joints. Maybe Andy Howe will chime in, he made some.
Good luck,
Chris H.
| ratt_finkel | 03-09-2006 12:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]After PM'ing Hoppe, I have these suggestion:
Revalve the front konis with substantial low-speed rebound, and de-gas them.
245/45-16 can work on the front, I ran this setup back in 2002. The wider tire help with front grip on typical NT courses with sweepers. It deadended the steering somewhat, compared to 225 front tires, on high transition courses, like Weondover Pro. So, have a set of 225 for all around, and a pair of 245 for sweeper events.
Learn to love rear toe-out. Learn to adjust it between runs.
Make your own end links out of heim joints. Maybe Andy Howe will chime in, he made some.
Good luck,
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
Chris, who should I call for the revalve. And should I just repeat what you said? About the rebound part? Shouldn't I also increase bound to increase grip. Something with a wide range obviously, I don't want to be stuck with a revalve that won't work. Good idea with the size setup. I'm wondering if I can't make the 245's work on something like this years north course though.
I honestly don't have a problem with rotation, so I'm still going to avoid messting with the toe in the rear. I've ran up 1/4 inch out in the front.
A who what with the what?
Revalve the front konis with substantial low-speed rebound, and de-gas them.
245/45-16 can work on the front, I ran this setup back in 2002. The wider tire help with front grip on typical NT courses with sweepers. It deadended the steering somewhat, compared to 225 front tires, on high transition courses, like Weondover Pro. So, have a set of 225 for all around, and a pair of 245 for sweeper events.
Learn to love rear toe-out. Learn to adjust it between runs.
Make your own end links out of heim joints. Maybe Andy Howe will chime in, he made some.
Good luck,
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
Chris, who should I call for the revalve. And should I just repeat what you said? About the rebound part? Shouldn't I also increase bound to increase grip. Something with a wide range obviously, I don't want to be stuck with a revalve that won't work. Good idea with the size setup. I'm wondering if I can't make the 245's work on something like this years north course though.
I honestly don't have a problem with rotation, so I'm still going to avoid messting with the toe in the rear. I've ran up 1/4 inch out in the front.
A who what with the what?
| 10th Warrior | 03-09-2006 01:31 PM |
[quote]A who what with the what?[/quote]
you know my endlinks? they're Andy's. Cheap, simple, and work really well.
like nyah:
[img]http://www.monstertower.com/images/balljoint.jpg[/img]
FWIW, i liked 1/8" F, 1/4" R toe.
oh, not only do i want to see pictures of a 28mm FSB on an RS, but I want video of you struggling to install it :D
you know my endlinks? they're Andy's. Cheap, simple, and work really well.
like nyah:
[img]http://www.monstertower.com/images/balljoint.jpg[/img]
FWIW, i liked 1/8" F, 1/4" R toe.
oh, not only do i want to see pictures of a 28mm FSB on an RS, but I want video of you struggling to install it :D
| ratt_finkel | 03-09-2006 02:19 PM |
[QUOTE=10th Warrior]you know my endlinks? they're Andy's. Cheap, simple, and work really well.
like nyah:
[img]http://www.monstertower.com/images/balljoint.jpg[/img]
FWIW, i liked 1/8" F, 1/4" R toe.
oh, not only do i want to see pictures of a 28mm FSB on an RS, but I want video of you struggling to install it :D[/QUOTE]
I'll keep you updated on the bar. What size of that thing do I need? I'm assuming I need 2 per side, what goes in the middle? One of those twisty screw things. God I sound like an idiot.
like nyah:
[img]http://www.monstertower.com/images/balljoint.jpg[/img]
FWIW, i liked 1/8" F, 1/4" R toe.
oh, not only do i want to see pictures of a 28mm FSB on an RS, but I want video of you struggling to install it :D[/QUOTE]
I'll keep you updated on the bar. What size of that thing do I need? I'm assuming I need 2 per side, what goes in the middle? One of those twisty screw things. God I sound like an idiot.
| adhowe70 | 03-09-2006 03:25 PM |
I'm going to be making myself another set of endlinks here very shortly... like Sunday. I'll put together a parts list and assembly procedure... its pretty simple, but some of the parts are obscure.
Andy
Andy
| sstrano | 03-09-2006 03:46 PM |
Need any help on that front bar or the shocks, let me know....
FWIW, shocks do not effect grip so long at the shocks aren't so bad the tires bounce off the ground. :) They do effect response and roll rate, but not the amount of roll or the steady-state balance of the car. While massive low-speed rebound will help response, it won't do squat for mechanical grip to help, and could hurt if you over do it with a larger front bar because the outside front tire will get loaded so fast that you can cause it to slide and not bite.
FWIW, compression damping is there to control unsprung weight. It is not a substitute for spring rate. Give me a Koni any day over a KYB AGX, at both ends of the car. And I'm not at all convinced the Koni's need revalved. I have little doubt the reason ratt_finkel likes his AGX's at full stiff is because they give him better transition rate...
FWIW, a bigger front bar does work, as can be attested by those running our 32mm Addco-built FSB on the 02+ Sedans. All about camber curve, and as can easily be seen in many of these pictures the car rolls way into positive camber.... so we stiffen car front roll stiffness, the car rolls less, the strut doesn't tilt out as far and you end up with a larger more useful contact patch.
Suggestion: Try the larger front bar, stay on the AGX's for the time being an see how/what adjustments do what before you jump into Revalving, different shocks and so on. Next step would be to try OTS Koni's, then revalve based on your findings. You run them full stiff, then fine revalve them. If you don't, a premature revalve would have been money wasted at the very least..... MHO.
FWIW, shocks do not effect grip so long at the shocks aren't so bad the tires bounce off the ground. :) They do effect response and roll rate, but not the amount of roll or the steady-state balance of the car. While massive low-speed rebound will help response, it won't do squat for mechanical grip to help, and could hurt if you over do it with a larger front bar because the outside front tire will get loaded so fast that you can cause it to slide and not bite.
FWIW, compression damping is there to control unsprung weight. It is not a substitute for spring rate. Give me a Koni any day over a KYB AGX, at both ends of the car. And I'm not at all convinced the Koni's need revalved. I have little doubt the reason ratt_finkel likes his AGX's at full stiff is because they give him better transition rate...
FWIW, a bigger front bar does work, as can be attested by those running our 32mm Addco-built FSB on the 02+ Sedans. All about camber curve, and as can easily be seen in many of these pictures the car rolls way into positive camber.... so we stiffen car front roll stiffness, the car rolls less, the strut doesn't tilt out as far and you end up with a larger more useful contact patch.
Suggestion: Try the larger front bar, stay on the AGX's for the time being an see how/what adjustments do what before you jump into Revalving, different shocks and so on. Next step would be to try OTS Koni's, then revalve based on your findings. You run them full stiff, then fine revalve them. If you don't, a premature revalve would have been money wasted at the very least..... MHO.
| ratt_finkel | 03-09-2006 04:17 PM |
Sam, thank you very much for the advice. I was hoping you would eventually chime in. You don't have to sell me on the FSB. I upgraded the stock 19mm bar to a boat anchor 22mm iPd bar. Love the difference. Now l need to go bigger.
And yes, they main advantage with the shocks and more importantly, running them full stiff--was the increase in transitional response. They did little to combat body roll, but did wonders for the feel and reaction in the car.
Everyone I've talked to said that OTS Koni's are no better than OTS KYB's. Along the lines of more compression OTS with the KYB's.
FYI, Brian Priebe revalved several sets to arrive on Huge rebound in the front, and his settings once revalved on the rear were nearly identical to OTS KYB's. So he is where I got the info from.
He was never able to get the car to rotate and never tried a bigger fsb and had some odd theories and consequently suspension setup as well.
And yes, they main advantage with the shocks and more importantly, running them full stiff--was the increase in transitional response. They did little to combat body roll, but did wonders for the feel and reaction in the car.
Everyone I've talked to said that OTS Koni's are no better than OTS KYB's. Along the lines of more compression OTS with the KYB's.
FYI, Brian Priebe revalved several sets to arrive on Huge rebound in the front, and his settings once revalved on the rear were nearly identical to OTS KYB's. So he is where I got the info from.
He was never able to get the car to rotate and never tried a bigger fsb and had some odd theories and consequently suspension setup as well.
| McGuyver | 03-09-2006 04:21 PM |
Sam,
Does your 32mm bar fit the 02+ RS as well as the WRX? If I remember correctly, the RS is different because of the location of the headers or subframe but I've never compared two side by side to be sure.
If you want a test vehicle to see if it does fit, I know someone with a 2002 RS sedan who would volunteer to play guineau pig.:)
Thanks,
Chris
2002 2.5RS
Does your 32mm bar fit the 02+ RS as well as the WRX? If I remember correctly, the RS is different because of the location of the headers or subframe but I've never compared two side by side to be sure.
If you want a test vehicle to see if it does fit, I know someone with a 2002 RS sedan who would volunteer to play guineau pig.:)
Thanks,
Chris
2002 2.5RS
| adhowe70 | 03-09-2006 07:41 PM |
Yes, the non-turbo cars have a different header arrangement than the turbo cars. A typical turbo front sway bar will interfere with the stock 2.5L NA header pipes. The sway bar MUST have those funky bends in the middle in order to clear the NA headers.
| trhoppe | 03-09-2006 09:54 PM |
Uh oh, we might have to some issues with this fancy bar I have here. I'll have to check.
-Tom
-Tom
| ratt_finkel | 03-10-2006 11:27 AM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Uh oh, we might have to some issues with this fancy bar I have here. I'll have to check.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Keep me updated!
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Keep me updated!
| BlkWRXWag | 03-10-2006 12:19 PM |
[QUOTE=sstrano]Need any help on that front bar or the shocks, let me know....
FWIW, shocks do not effect grip so long at the shocks aren't so bad the tires bounce off the ground. :) They do effect response and roll rate, but not the amount of roll or the steady-state balance of the car. While massive low-speed rebound will help response, it won't do squat for mechanical grip to help, and could hurt if you over do it with a larger front bar because the outside front tire will get loaded so fast that you can cause it to slide and not bite.
FWIW, compression damping is there to control unsprung weight. It is not a substitute for spring rate. Give me a Koni any day over a KYB AGX, at both ends of the car. And I'm not at all convinced the Koni's need revalved. I have little doubt the reason ratt_finkel likes his AGX's at full stiff is because they give him better transition rate...
FWIW, a bigger front bar does work, as can be attested by those running our 32mm Addco-built FSB on the 02+ Sedans. All about camber curve, and as can easily be seen in many of these pictures the car rolls way into positive camber.... so we stiffen car front roll stiffness, the car rolls less, the strut doesn't tilt out as far and you end up with a larger more useful contact patch.
Suggestion: Try the larger front bar, stay on the AGX's for the time being an see how/what adjustments do what before you jump into Revalving, different shocks and so on. Next step would be to try OTS Koni's, then revalve based on your findings. You run them full stiff, then fine revalve them. If you don't, a premature revalve would have been money wasted at the very least..... MHO.[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity Sam, how many G-stock 2.5RS have you autocrossed?
Hoppe: How's the magic bar? Did it fit?
Chris H.
posting from Max's computer in fontana
FWIW, shocks do not effect grip so long at the shocks aren't so bad the tires bounce off the ground. :) They do effect response and roll rate, but not the amount of roll or the steady-state balance of the car. While massive low-speed rebound will help response, it won't do squat for mechanical grip to help, and could hurt if you over do it with a larger front bar because the outside front tire will get loaded so fast that you can cause it to slide and not bite.
FWIW, compression damping is there to control unsprung weight. It is not a substitute for spring rate. Give me a Koni any day over a KYB AGX, at both ends of the car. And I'm not at all convinced the Koni's need revalved. I have little doubt the reason ratt_finkel likes his AGX's at full stiff is because they give him better transition rate...
FWIW, a bigger front bar does work, as can be attested by those running our 32mm Addco-built FSB on the 02+ Sedans. All about camber curve, and as can easily be seen in many of these pictures the car rolls way into positive camber.... so we stiffen car front roll stiffness, the car rolls less, the strut doesn't tilt out as far and you end up with a larger more useful contact patch.
Suggestion: Try the larger front bar, stay on the AGX's for the time being an see how/what adjustments do what before you jump into Revalving, different shocks and so on. Next step would be to try OTS Koni's, then revalve based on your findings. You run them full stiff, then fine revalve them. If you don't, a premature revalve would have been money wasted at the very least..... MHO.[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity Sam, how many G-stock 2.5RS have you autocrossed?
Hoppe: How's the magic bar? Did it fit?
Chris H.
posting from Max's computer in fontana
| adhowe70 | 03-10-2006 08:18 PM |
[QUOTE=sstrano]
FWIW, shocks do not effect grip so long at the shocks aren't so bad the tires bounce off the ground.[/QUOTE]
Not quite true... shocks do affect the grip in transient motions. Slaloms, corner entry, and corner exit. Shocks do not fix steady state (that 1 second per corner when you're a neutral throttle and holding the wheel steady after the shocks have settled from the corner entry).
Road racers don't use shocks to tune the car (or at least shouldn't!) because their cars are in steady state most of the time. Autocrossers are not generally in steady state and, thus, damping rates CAN significantly affect the grip or balance of the car.
If you're not in stock class, find another way to solve your grip / balance issues, though! Often using damping to cure a problem will end up reducing overall grip. Sam's right on with that one!
Andy H.
FWIW, shocks do not effect grip so long at the shocks aren't so bad the tires bounce off the ground.[/QUOTE]
Not quite true... shocks do affect the grip in transient motions. Slaloms, corner entry, and corner exit. Shocks do not fix steady state (that 1 second per corner when you're a neutral throttle and holding the wheel steady after the shocks have settled from the corner entry).
Road racers don't use shocks to tune the car (or at least shouldn't!) because their cars are in steady state most of the time. Autocrossers are not generally in steady state and, thus, damping rates CAN significantly affect the grip or balance of the car.
If you're not in stock class, find another way to solve your grip / balance issues, though! Often using damping to cure a problem will end up reducing overall grip. Sam's right on with that one!
Andy H.
| sstrano | 03-13-2006 01:51 PM |
Shocks only effect grip if they are way off. And really only cost you grip. For instance if they are too stiff, you tend to skate on turn in. If the shocks are too soft (but not to the point of the tires coming off the road), the mechanical grip of the car car is fine, but the response is slow. That's not a grip thing, but a transition rate thing.
Chris H.... How many RS's have I raced? None. How many have I driven? More than a few @ Evo schools. However, I'm not sure that's relevant. I'm not some fresh of the bus, new to the city punk kid with no credentials...... ;)
McGuyver... I don't believe it will fit a non-turbo car. The only cars I know it will fit for sure are the WRX and STi's.
Chris H.... How many RS's have I raced? None. How many have I driven? More than a few @ Evo schools. However, I'm not sure that's relevant. I'm not some fresh of the bus, new to the city punk kid with no credentials...... ;)
McGuyver... I don't believe it will fit a non-turbo car. The only cars I know it will fit for sure are the WRX and STi's.
| 10th Warrior | 03-13-2006 03:17 PM |
[quote]However, I'm not sure that's relevant. I'm not some fresh of the bus, new to the city punk kid with no credentials.....[/quote]
whatever noob. i looked up some nationals results and found nobody by the name of S. S. Trano ;)
anyway, shock valving isn't the RS's biggest handicap; that's the fact its not an '05 MCS :)
whatever noob. i looked up some nationals results and found nobody by the name of S. S. Trano ;)
anyway, shock valving isn't the RS's biggest handicap; that's the fact its not an '05 MCS :)
| trhoppe | 03-13-2006 03:24 PM |
Bah! Swaybar no go!
But hey, if you swap a turbo cross member, and swap your header out for a turbo, it will fit like a champ.
-Tom
But hey, if you swap a turbo cross member, and swap your header out for a turbo, it will fit like a champ.
-Tom
| Craigs | 03-13-2006 03:38 PM |
[QUOTE=10th Warrior]whatever noob. i looked up some nationals results and found nobody by the name of S. S. Trano ;)
anyway, shock valving isn't the RS's biggest handicap; that's the fact its not an '05 MCS :)[/QUOTE]
Who's the noobie? It ain't the MCS, its the Celica that was our downfall.
anyway, shock valving isn't the RS's biggest handicap; that's the fact its not an '05 MCS :)[/QUOTE]
Who's the noobie? It ain't the MCS, its the Celica that was our downfall.
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