| jslegacy | 03-18-2005 02:38 PM |
i just got back to the media center from talking to those guys. Man they are stoked and couldnt be happier. I will try and post some photos if i have time.
-jeremy
-jeremy
| dwx | 03-18-2005 03:24 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]15th definetly works. Good Job!
I had a conversation with some of the guys helping with the car last night and they mentioned that they were having a lot of problems with the brakes that are very directly affecting the car's handling. Pretty much nothing suspension wise can be worked on until they fix the brake issues.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
If you saw the interior shots of the car, they are using a floor mounted pedal box with different MC and a bias valve. Definitely a custom setup, but brakes aren't that complex, shouldn't be that hard to diagnose.
I believe they were one of the few teams that ran faster in the race than in the practice sessions.
I had a conversation with some of the guys helping with the car last night and they mentioned that they were having a lot of problems with the brakes that are very directly affecting the car's handling. Pretty much nothing suspension wise can be worked on until they fix the brake issues.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
If you saw the interior shots of the car, they are using a floor mounted pedal box with different MC and a bias valve. Definitely a custom setup, but brakes aren't that complex, shouldn't be that hard to diagnose.
I believe they were one of the few teams that ran faster in the race than in the practice sessions.
| Chaste Automotive | 03-18-2005 03:46 PM |
They are not using Motec they are using EFI for engine management. All the cars are being policed with a stack data logger and a host of sensors. Sebring is a good track for AWD hopefully they can keep it up.
| pio!pio! | 03-18-2005 04:15 PM |
Results are out...don't wanna spoil it for anyone
But the two turbo cars (WRX, SRT4) did respectably well for themselves considering their start positions.
But the two turbo cars (WRX, SRT4) did respectably well for themselves considering their start positions.
| GarySheehan | 03-18-2005 04:19 PM |
[QUOTE=CMJ]What is the diff. in cost between the two series?[/QUOTE]
A Grand Am Cup ST car is roughly half the cost to build as a World Challenge TC.
We have also decided to pursue Grand Am Cup over World Challenge. The GAC race cars are much closer related to the cars on street, GAC is growing rapidly and the series it supports (Grand Am Rolex) is doing extremely well and teams like Turner Motorsport also see the value in competing in GAC. They are running in both the ST class as well as the GS class in GAC!
Gary (who needs to find a way back into GAC!)
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
A Grand Am Cup ST car is roughly half the cost to build as a World Challenge TC.
We have also decided to pursue Grand Am Cup over World Challenge. The GAC race cars are much closer related to the cars on street, GAC is growing rapidly and the series it supports (Grand Am Rolex) is doing extremely well and teams like Turner Motorsport also see the value in competing in GAC. They are running in both the ST class as well as the GS class in GAC!
Gary (who needs to find a way back into GAC!)
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| ratt_finkel | 03-18-2005 05:02 PM |
Very nice job for a very underprepped car.
| lukerussell | 03-18-2005 05:23 PM |
my only complaint w/ GAC is after sitting down for 3 hours to watch the last race, they showed no more than 10 seconds of the ST race. It would be much more interesting to me if they could figure out how to do a seperate ST race.
luke
luke
| Scooby South | 03-18-2005 05:38 PM |
[QUOTE=Chaste Automotive]They are not using Motec they are using EFI for engine management. All the cars are being policed with a stack data logger and a host of sensors. Sebring is a good track for AWD hopefully they can keep it up.[/QUOTE]
hmmmmmm....Mike told me it was MOTEC....with a stack Data logger...unless you have different info than I do...(I sell parts to him)... :confused: Either way its tuned indivually per cylnder...
Bill
hmmmmmm....Mike told me it was MOTEC....with a stack Data logger...unless you have different info than I do...(I sell parts to him)... :confused: Either way its tuned indivually per cylnder...
Bill
| Scooby South | 03-18-2005 05:40 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]A Grand Am Cup ST car is roughly half the cost to build as a World Challenge TC.
We have also decided to pursue Grand Am Cup over World Challenge. The GAC race cars are much closer related to the cars on street, GAC is growing rapidly and the series it supports (Grand Am Rolex) is doing extremely well and teams like Turner Motorsport also see the value in competing in GAC. They are running in both the ST class as well as the GS class in GAC!
Gary (who needs to find a way back into GAC!)
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Gary...How competitive would your old car have been in this event....yes with all the stuff you had done...Just curious..
Bill
We have also decided to pursue Grand Am Cup over World Challenge. The GAC race cars are much closer related to the cars on street, GAC is growing rapidly and the series it supports (Grand Am Rolex) is doing extremely well and teams like Turner Motorsport also see the value in competing in GAC. They are running in both the ST class as well as the GS class in GAC!
Gary (who needs to find a way back into GAC!)
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Gary...How competitive would your old car have been in this event....yes with all the stuff you had done...Just curious..
Bill
| GarySheehan | 03-18-2005 05:58 PM |
Tough to say. I don't know what kind of power IM's car is making, plus our car was 200 - 500lbs heavier than that, depending on how late in the season it was.
Our car was still stock suspension geometry. To get a WRX to be quick through the corners, the lower pickup points need to be raised to lower the car and keep an optimal camber curve.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Our car was still stock suspension geometry. To get a WRX to be quick through the corners, the lower pickup points need to be raised to lower the car and keep an optimal camber curve.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| jblaine | 03-18-2005 09:19 PM |
Where can one find info about GAC?
| dwx | 03-18-2005 09:52 PM |
[QUOTE=ratt_finkel]Very nice job for a very underprepped car.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call the car "very underprepped" by any means. It's a very well prepared car for what's allowed currently. Sure the car is new and may have some gremlins but the foundation is there.
I wouldn't call the car "very underprepped" by any means. It's a very well prepared car for what's allowed currently. Sure the car is new and may have some gremlins but the foundation is there.
| kwak | 03-18-2005 11:05 PM |
[QUOTE=jblaine]Where can one find info about GAC?[/QUOTE][URL]http://www.grand-am.com/[/URL]
| Chaste Automotive | 03-19-2005 06:54 AM |
Gary if you are serious about GAC give me a call about the second seat. FYI it will be running in GS we are finalizing the spec currently with GAC but we have a lot of ideas and a stack of parts they want us there. Call me or email me [email][email�protected][/email]
909 868 0609
909 868 0609
| [email�protected] | 03-19-2005 10:37 PM |
hey guys,
just wanted to thank you for the support, and hope we can keep it up. We are going to do the next two races, St. Pete and Atlanta, but we are skipping the west coast run do to funds.
We do hope to do all east coast events this year and if the car gets more competitive then we may come out with the second car and new driver before years end.
Now for Sebring, the truth, we had major engine issues going from n/a to turbo, so the lack of testing is evident. We pretty much changed every aspect of the car compared to last years, i.e. brakes, fuel cell, electrical, seating, steering and the obvious 04 frt clip. But we did do some testing in Savanah.
Here were the problems we had to overcome: a map sensor, fuel pump, and amplifier for our wide band. All on monday and tuesday, not to mention the brakes. And to the one guy yes brakes should be a easy fix, but sometimes even the easiest thing can bite you in the a**!
thank you for the advise on handling, we actually have it handling really well right now, just the brake issue caused the car to be upset through out. We have altered the the pick up points to a point, but have really started to understand and get comfortable with it here recently. I was already aware of the rear being lower than the front, actually about 1/2" lower, but we had it for a reason. Our car from ground to center of fender well is average 24"-24 1/2" on any given event. I can not give any info on settings but its being dialed in.
As for the rules in world challenge for us (FI) we are working with SCCA on the improvments we need as we speak.
We did start 26th and ended up 15th, so we are very pleased and confident that the wrx will be competitive, and a top runner by years end.
Would like to thank all of you for the support, and hope to get the Subie up front soon.
Scott, Irish Mikes Racing
Our new sponser ________GP Moto! Thank You!
just wanted to thank you for the support, and hope we can keep it up. We are going to do the next two races, St. Pete and Atlanta, but we are skipping the west coast run do to funds.
We do hope to do all east coast events this year and if the car gets more competitive then we may come out with the second car and new driver before years end.
Now for Sebring, the truth, we had major engine issues going from n/a to turbo, so the lack of testing is evident. We pretty much changed every aspect of the car compared to last years, i.e. brakes, fuel cell, electrical, seating, steering and the obvious 04 frt clip. But we did do some testing in Savanah.
Here were the problems we had to overcome: a map sensor, fuel pump, and amplifier for our wide band. All on monday and tuesday, not to mention the brakes. And to the one guy yes brakes should be a easy fix, but sometimes even the easiest thing can bite you in the a**!
thank you for the advise on handling, we actually have it handling really well right now, just the brake issue caused the car to be upset through out. We have altered the the pick up points to a point, but have really started to understand and get comfortable with it here recently. I was already aware of the rear being lower than the front, actually about 1/2" lower, but we had it for a reason. Our car from ground to center of fender well is average 24"-24 1/2" on any given event. I can not give any info on settings but its being dialed in.
As for the rules in world challenge for us (FI) we are working with SCCA on the improvments we need as we speak.
We did start 26th and ended up 15th, so we are very pleased and confident that the wrx will be competitive, and a top runner by years end.
Would like to thank all of you for the support, and hope to get the Subie up front soon.
Scott, Irish Mikes Racing
Our new sponser ________GP Moto! Thank You!
| Homemade WRX | 03-19-2005 11:37 PM |
that car could use some serious aero work...you would be amazed what a few mods could do to the drag on that car....after playing with the Chase Daytona Prototype in the Langley full scale tunnel this past week I have seen first how how the most minute mirror design can have tremendous effects on drag and available hp at speed
| RaceComp Engineering | 03-20-2005 12:17 AM |
[QUOTE=STiTuner]Mikes RS motor made plenty of HP for a NA motor, but NO TORQUE. TWE did a good job helping him with that motor but there isn't much R&D done on RS, not half as much support for that as there is for the WRX anyway.
I give it about 3-4 races before SCCA starts lifting some of the restrictions on the WRX VTS[/QUOTE]
StiTUNER.....what damper are they using on that car, and are they 2 way, 3 way or the latest 4 way adjustable?
[email�protected]
I give it about 3-4 races before SCCA starts lifting some of the restrictions on the WRX VTS[/QUOTE]
StiTUNER.....what damper are they using on that car, and are they 2 way, 3 way or the latest 4 way adjustable?
[email�protected]
| [email�protected] | 03-20-2005 12:39 AM |
there is not a lot we are allowed to do with aero packages, we had mirrors also, but the rules state: must run stock body (and mirrors) unless scca approves it.
really the only thing aero that is legal is the wing (which is limited to 2 or 3 designs) and a splitter ( which has to have a minimum height of 3" from ground.)
Aero package will be the last thing we really press for because there is so much more products needed performance and RELIABLITY <got to stay together>
dampers are Dynamics-triple adj. ( hi, low bump, and rebound) total 48 adj. each
They are very good and are very similar to Penske. We just had them re-valved and it made a world of difference, agian I feel strong about our handling, its other areas that need the most attention. I have plenty of data from each track to feel comfortable.
Thank you, Scott, IMRacing
really the only thing aero that is legal is the wing (which is limited to 2 or 3 designs) and a splitter ( which has to have a minimum height of 3" from ground.)
Aero package will be the last thing we really press for because there is so much more products needed performance and RELIABLITY <got to stay together>
dampers are Dynamics-triple adj. ( hi, low bump, and rebound) total 48 adj. each
They are very good and are very similar to Penske. We just had them re-valved and it made a world of difference, agian I feel strong about our handling, its other areas that need the most attention. I have plenty of data from each track to feel comfortable.
Thank you, Scott, IMRacing
| Impreza01 | 03-20-2005 08:24 AM |
Scott (@ IMRacing)
Is the VTS up-to-date on the front and rear differentials (it's listed that the diffs have to be open for front and rear)? If so, how's the AWD doing in terms of wheelspin when accelerating out of corners?
Is the VTS up-to-date on the front and rear differentials (it's listed that the diffs have to be open for front and rear)? If so, how's the AWD doing in terms of wheelspin when accelerating out of corners?
| Homemade WRX | 03-20-2005 09:20 AM |
[[email�protected]]there is not a lot we are allowed to do with aero packages, we had mirrors also, but the rules state: must run stock body (and mirrors) unless scca approves it.
[/QUOTE]
by stock body, I'm asssuming they are talking hood and windshield inclination (like trans am series), stock bumpers front and rear, sideskirts too? (or can you lower them?), and how about an undertray...tests done have shown up to .1 Cd drop...that is huge...and also lowering your front valance too low can actually increase your drag, so there is a fine point there...
[/QUOTE]
by stock body, I'm asssuming they are talking hood and windshield inclination (like trans am series), stock bumpers front and rear, sideskirts too? (or can you lower them?), and how about an undertray...tests done have shown up to .1 Cd drop...that is huge...and also lowering your front valance too low can actually increase your drag, so there is a fine point there...
| pio!pio! | 03-20-2005 04:07 PM |
I've seen WCTC cars w/ CF hoods...lots of cars have modified bumpers to provide a large splitter area...
I say the SCCA is very generous on the body mods..just need to get them approved...it's more than getting them approved though..part of the rules say that in order for you to run alternate bodywork, that bodywork has to be available to any other teams running the same car..and it has to be able to be delivered to that team within 3 days of purchase
I say the SCCA is very generous on the body mods..just need to get them approved...it's more than getting them approved though..part of the rules say that in order for you to run alternate bodywork, that bodywork has to be available to any other teams running the same car..and it has to be able to be delivered to that team within 3 days of purchase
| johnfelstead | 03-20-2005 04:21 PM |
Thanks for the very informative post Scott, and congratulations on getting the car through the race. It's always tough trying to find problems when you want to be out getting track time and setup information. Good luck for the rest of the year and keep us informed with progress if you can.
| [email�protected] | 03-20-2005 08:16 PM |
vts is current. You can get approved to run carbon body panels, but there has to be a good reason. But we have to maintain a 58/42 weight dist.. And that is were we are, so lightening stuff can be tricky, and to remain at legal weight.
vts states open diffs, frt and rear, last year we ran Quaifes frt and rear with Cusco tarmac 35/65, this year a little different. Same center diff (legal), but stock WRX frt and rear ( front open, rear visc.) by any means not a lsd for racing. ( there is no open rear diff for wrx off shelf that is specified for wrx.)
We actually like the open diff in the frt, it does not want to plow any more, but will be asking for a clutch type rear soon.
Also looking to get bigger (STI scoop), and different tranny ( STI 6 speed), we are light on weight and this is a good,STRONG balist.
vts states open diffs, frt and rear, last year we ran Quaifes frt and rear with Cusco tarmac 35/65, this year a little different. Same center diff (legal), but stock WRX frt and rear ( front open, rear visc.) by any means not a lsd for racing. ( there is no open rear diff for wrx off shelf that is specified for wrx.)
We actually like the open diff in the frt, it does not want to plow any more, but will be asking for a clutch type rear soon.
Also looking to get bigger (STI scoop), and different tranny ( STI 6 speed), we are light on weight and this is a good,STRONG balist.
| CMJ | 03-20-2005 09:27 PM |
[[email�protected]]vts is current. You can get approved to run carbon body panels, but there has to be a good reason. But we have to maintain a 58/42 weight dist.. And that is were we are, so lightening stuff can be tricky, and to remain at legal weight.
[/QUOTE]
Wouldn�t it be better to run a hood that has a 5-8lbs. reduction and then take the weight that has been removed and add it back to the car as low as possible? You would maintain the 58/42 distribution and lower the CG.
[/QUOTE]
Wouldn�t it be better to run a hood that has a 5-8lbs. reduction and then take the weight that has been removed and add it back to the car as low as possible? You would maintain the 58/42 distribution and lower the CG.
| Homemade WRX | 03-21-2005 12:48 AM |
[QUOTE=CMJ]Wouldn�t it be better to run a hood that has a 5-8lbs. reduction and then take the weight that has been removed and add it back to the car as low as possible? You would maintain the 58/42 distribution and lower the CG.[/QUOTE]
you would need to move the weight just lower in the front...adding it to the rear would only further offset the weight distribution...
you would need to move the weight just lower in the front...adding it to the rear would only further offset the weight distribution...
| CMJ | 03-21-2005 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE=Homemade WRX]you would need to move the weight just lower in the front...adding it to the rear would only further offset the weight distribution...[/QUOTE]
Re-read what I posted ;)
I never said add the weight back to the rear of the car.
Re-read what I posted ;)
I never said add the weight back to the rear of the car.
| driggity | 03-21-2005 02:07 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]Well one thing I can say is the car is well north of 240 AWHP...;)[/QUOTE]
With which intake restrictor in there?
With which intake restrictor in there?
| D_REX | 03-21-2005 03:18 PM |
[[email�protected]]We have altered the the pick up points to a point[/QUOTE]
Any chance you can share a picture of your modification? I understand if it's proprietary or protected information.
Thanks,
Dustin
Any chance you can share a picture of your modification? I understand if it's proprietary or protected information.
Thanks,
Dustin
| [email�protected] | 03-21-2005 08:35 PM |
sorry guys, no pics or info on the motor/tranny set up, and no exacting detail on suspension set up.
But thanks for the advice and ideas, its always good to hear different ideas. Some work and some dont.
Stay tuned we are setting up for St. Pete. ( with the back end higher, enough phone calls, already) j/k.
Thanks for the help
Scott, Irish Mikes Racing
But thanks for the advice and ideas, its always good to hear different ideas. Some work and some dont.
Stay tuned we are setting up for St. Pete. ( with the back end higher, enough phone calls, already) j/k.
Thanks for the help
Scott, Irish Mikes Racing
| Storm | 03-21-2005 10:19 PM |
Good luck Scott.....Hope y'all get things sorted quickly!
Jay Storm
Jay Storm
| Homemade WRX | 03-22-2005 02:05 AM |
[QUOTE=CMJ]Re-read what I posted ;)
I never said add the weight back to the rear of the car.[/QUOTE]
lol...I see now...
I never said add the weight back to the rear of the car.[/QUOTE]
lol...I see now...
| kfoote | 03-22-2005 09:39 AM |
It was good to see the WRX out there and running competitively, being the highest finishing turbo car out there. I did get to talk to Mike a bit on Wednesday when he came over to look at the car we had for sale there, and he definitely seemed more upbeat than when he had been running the RS. Though, I think we all would have liked it better if he finished where we did, and we had moved up one spot, though :D
In World Challenge, where the suspension mounting points are moved to is IMO the single biggest setup change that can improve your car compared to the other cars of the same make, and is most definitely proprietary info, though having Bill Auberlen drive helps, too.
In World Challenge, where the suspension mounting points are moved to is IMO the single biggest setup change that can improve your car compared to the other cars of the same make, and is most definitely proprietary info, though having Bill Auberlen drive helps, too.
| D_REX | 03-22-2005 09:54 AM |
I understand that exact locations will certainly be proprietary. I was hoping that the methods for relocation were not. Specifically I was hoping to see how they moved the rear LCA pivot point higher up. Are you allowed to replace the LCA in WC? Probably the easiest way to move the pivot point is to reduce the size of the bushing (or bearing) and offset the pin from the LCA.
| kfoote | 03-22-2005 10:29 AM |
[QUOTE=D_REX]I understand that exact locations will certainly be proprietary. I was hoping that the methods for relocation were not. Specifically I was hoping to see how they moved the rear LCA pivot point higher up. Are you allowed to replace the LCA in WC? Probably the easiest way to move the pivot point is to reduce the size of the bushing (or bearing) and offset the pin from the LCA.[/QUOTE]
Offset bushings are the easiest way to do it, and are what we use on the BMW's. Each individual mount is allowed to be moved up to 20mm, and in many cases, and offset bushing is enough to push the limits of that allowed 20mm.
Offset bushings are the easiest way to do it, and are what we use on the BMW's. Each individual mount is allowed to be moved up to 20mm, and in many cases, and offset bushing is enough to push the limits of that allowed 20mm.
| Homemade WRX | 03-22-2005 08:25 PM |
so you get to play with CG and roll points fo the cars...I never knew that...that gives lots of leadway for improvement....including now playing with rake for downforce and mechanical grip of the car....
| goto_racing | 03-23-2005 01:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]Gary...How competitive would your old car have been in this event....yes with all the stuff you had done...Just curious..
Bill[/QUOTE]
1:54.839 was our best time at the opening USTCC round on the GAC configuration of Cal speedway. If anyone can find laps times from the last GAC event there, you could compare. Keep in mind though that the car is actually less powerful than when Gary owned it. We have since been mandated to remove all aftermarket engine bolts ons, which included our intercooler, our headers, and our downpipe, and replace them with stock pieces, as well as return the car to stock gearing.
Jeff Lepper fielded last years GAC-ST Dodge SRT-4 for that race, and only managed a 1:55. We finished 2 seconds behind him in the 40 minute main event, and still had half a tank of fuel. I think that with GAC ruleset, being able to make only one stop, we could have the car running very competitively in the GAC field. But you have to convince GA that it is an ST car first :).
Bill[/QUOTE]
1:54.839 was our best time at the opening USTCC round on the GAC configuration of Cal speedway. If anyone can find laps times from the last GAC event there, you could compare. Keep in mind though that the car is actually less powerful than when Gary owned it. We have since been mandated to remove all aftermarket engine bolts ons, which included our intercooler, our headers, and our downpipe, and replace them with stock pieces, as well as return the car to stock gearing.
Jeff Lepper fielded last years GAC-ST Dodge SRT-4 for that race, and only managed a 1:55. We finished 2 seconds behind him in the 40 minute main event, and still had half a tank of fuel. I think that with GAC ruleset, being able to make only one stop, we could have the car running very competitively in the GAC field. But you have to convince GA that it is an ST car first :).
| GarySheehan | 03-23-2005 04:18 PM |
Front running GAC GS cars were in the 1:47's. Front ST cars were in the 1:52's.
We about killed ourselves in the Lexus IS300's turning 1:55's and 1:56's. Those cars were really showing their age that race.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
We about killed ourselves in the Lexus IS300's turning 1:55's and 1:56's. Those cars were really showing their age that race.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| slickvic | 03-23-2005 05:20 PM |
[[email�protected]]
As for the rules in world challenge for us (*****ty) we are working with SCCA on the improvments we need as we speak.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it seems ever since the mistake SCCA made with the caddy's (Letting them be way to dominant) the are really limiting incoming cars. Take the S60 R's which are factory backed and almost dead last (They sounded awesome though).
I watched you guys around turn 11(not sure its the right hander onto the back straight) i believe it was and you looked quite strong coming out of it and held pretty well down that straight.
Good luck this season.
There are also many things worse that can happen than finishing where you did, the team I work(in GT class) for was out after the fifth lap.
As for the rules in world challenge for us (*****ty) we are working with SCCA on the improvments we need as we speak.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it seems ever since the mistake SCCA made with the caddy's (Letting them be way to dominant) the are really limiting incoming cars. Take the S60 R's which are factory backed and almost dead last (They sounded awesome though).
I watched you guys around turn 11(not sure its the right hander onto the back straight) i believe it was and you looked quite strong coming out of it and held pretty well down that straight.
Good luck this season.
There are also many things worse that can happen than finishing where you did, the team I work(in GT class) for was out after the fifth lap.
| PA04STI | 03-24-2005 04:10 AM |
A STi would be cool to run in this class...Wonder why they went with a WRX???? Man would be cool if Subaru sponsored a team...I think it would do very good.
| Impreza01 | 03-24-2005 08:05 AM |
[QUOTE=PA04STI]A STi would be cool to run in this class...Wonder why they went with a WRX???? Man would be cool if Subaru sponsored a team...I think it would do very good.[/QUOTE]
The WRX is in the Touring Car class. The STi is placed in the GT car class.
If you already knew that, then the reason why the STi isn't campaigned is the STi would get butchered in the GT class unless very heavy modifications were allowed to the car.
The WRX is in the Touring Car class. The STi is placed in the GT car class.
If you already knew that, then the reason why the STi isn't campaigned is the STi would get butchered in the GT class unless very heavy modifications were allowed to the car.
| Homemade WRX | 03-24-2005 09:15 AM |
[QUOTE=Impreza01]The WRX is in the Touring Car class. The STi is placed in the GT car class.
If you already knew that, then the reason why the STi isn't campaigned is the STi would get butchered in the GT class unless very heavy modifications were allowed to the car.[/QUOTE]
yup...the STi would get a relentless beating up there
If you already knew that, then the reason why the STi isn't campaigned is the STi would get butchered in the GT class unless very heavy modifications were allowed to the car.[/QUOTE]
yup...the STi would get a relentless beating up there
| kfoote | 03-24-2005 09:56 AM |
For a good example of how a SPEED World Challenge GT STi factory backed team would do with world-class drivers, I'd say they would be very close to the World Ghallenge GT Volvo S60 factory backed team has done with Derek Bell driving, that is to say, not very good with tons of teething problems resulting from having to use components that weren't designed to handle 500HP.
| dwx | 03-24-2005 10:08 AM |
The only people I see making a GT STI competitive is Prodrive, and I don't think they have any plans to do so. If you gave them a car to build a GT car and put a good driver in it, they would be more than competitive. The STI imho is a much better starting platform than the S60, so I don't know if I'd compare it to that car.
| GarySheehan | 03-24-2005 11:25 AM |
[QUOTE=dwx]The only people I see making a GT STI competitive is Prodrive, and I don't think they have any plans to do so. If you gave them a car to build a GT car and put a good driver in it, they would be more than competitive.[/QUOTE]
There are plenty of U.S. based racing teams that could prepare an STi to it's maximum capabilities. Prodrive is a good shop, but they are not by any means the only shop of that caliber.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
There are plenty of U.S. based racing teams that could prepare an STi to it's maximum capabilities. Prodrive is a good shop, but they are not by any means the only shop of that caliber.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| SolbergWRCfan | 03-24-2005 11:56 AM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]There are plenty of U.S. based racing teams that could prepare an STi to it's maximum capabilities. Prodrive is a good shop, but they are not by any means the only shop of that caliber.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Just wondering who you would compare Gary. PTG and Champion, and Pratt and Miller come to mind, but I am having a hard time thinking of other teams. Maybe Penske or Roush?
Jon
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Just wondering who you would compare Gary. PTG and Champion, and Pratt and Miller come to mind, but I am having a hard time thinking of other teams. Maybe Penske or Roush?
Jon
| kfoote | 03-24-2005 12:25 PM |
[QUOTE=SolbergWRCfan]Just wondering who you would compare Gary. PTG and Champion, and Pratt and Miller come to mind, but I am having a hard time thinking of other teams. Maybe Penske or Roush?
Jon[/QUOTE]
Brumos
Ganassi
Hendrick (remember the GTP Corvettes?)
Dyson
Alex Job Racing
Dick Barbour Racing
Crawford
Rocketsports
SunTrust Racing
The Racer's Group
Flying Lizard
To name a few teams that are not currently in World Challenge.
In addition to the teams mentioned above, with the proper backing 3R, At Speed (Volvos), Realtime, Tri-Point, and (shameless plug) Turner Motorsport, could field cars of ANY make to their competitive limits in World Challenge. The problem is that unless major changes are allowed, the STi will not be a competitive starting platform, and SCCA will not allow those changes until someone puts up the $200k it would take to build a car that pushes the current GT limits.
Jon[/QUOTE]
Brumos
Ganassi
Hendrick (remember the GTP Corvettes?)
Dyson
Alex Job Racing
Dick Barbour Racing
Crawford
Rocketsports
SunTrust Racing
The Racer's Group
Flying Lizard
To name a few teams that are not currently in World Challenge.
In addition to the teams mentioned above, with the proper backing 3R, At Speed (Volvos), Realtime, Tri-Point, and (shameless plug) Turner Motorsport, could field cars of ANY make to their competitive limits in World Challenge. The problem is that unless major changes are allowed, the STi will not be a competitive starting platform, and SCCA will not allow those changes until someone puts up the $200k it would take to build a car that pushes the current GT limits.
| dwx | 03-24-2005 12:40 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]There are plenty of U.S. based racing teams that could prepare an STi to it's maximum capabilities. Prodrive is a good shop, but they are not by any means the only shop of that caliber.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
I guess I could rephrase that as a competitive car in a shorter amount of time. Most race shops in the US would look at a STI and not know where to begin with it. Prodrive has been developing them for a decade now and would be way ahead in terms of making the car competitive, especially in regards to engine and suspension development. Most shops specialize in certain cars and Prodrive is no different.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
I guess I could rephrase that as a competitive car in a shorter amount of time. Most race shops in the US would look at a STI and not know where to begin with it. Prodrive has been developing them for a decade now and would be way ahead in terms of making the car competitive, especially in regards to engine and suspension development. Most shops specialize in certain cars and Prodrive is no different.
| GarySheehan | 03-24-2005 02:40 PM |
Aasco and Bell Motorsports are a couple more that come to mind.
[QUOTE=dwx]I guess I could rephrase that as a competitive car in a shorter amount of time. Most race shops in the US would look at a STI and not know where to begin with it. Prodrive has been developing them for a decade now and would be way ahead in terms of making the car competitive, especially in regards to engine and suspension development. Most shops specialize in certain cars and Prodrive is no different.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. To the top race prep organizations, it's just a car. Apply the rules to the car, go testing, make changes, go testing, etc. There is only so much you can do given the rules and the chassis/engine/driveline combination you are working with.
As a matter of fact, I probably wouldn't look to ProDrive as my first choice. I would want more focus on my program than ProDrive could probably offer. Also having a base of ops right here in the US of A is critical.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
[QUOTE=dwx]I guess I could rephrase that as a competitive car in a shorter amount of time. Most race shops in the US would look at a STI and not know where to begin with it. Prodrive has been developing them for a decade now and would be way ahead in terms of making the car competitive, especially in regards to engine and suspension development. Most shops specialize in certain cars and Prodrive is no different.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. To the top race prep organizations, it's just a car. Apply the rules to the car, go testing, make changes, go testing, etc. There is only so much you can do given the rules and the chassis/engine/driveline combination you are working with.
As a matter of fact, I probably wouldn't look to ProDrive as my first choice. I would want more focus on my program than ProDrive could probably offer. Also having a base of ops right here in the US of A is critical.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| MattGC8 | 03-24-2005 04:51 PM |
I know Cobb was a big sponsor for you in USTCC Gary, do they have the technical prowess for GAC or WC?
| GarySheehan | 03-24-2005 04:59 PM |
[QUOTE=MattGC8]I know Cobb was a big sponsor for you in USTCC Gary, do they have the technical prowess for GAC or WC?[/QUOTE]
I think they could handle the engine program, but they would be on an extremely steep learning curve for the chassis. They don't have the decades of experience in road racing that the above mentioned race prep shops do.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
I think they could handle the engine program, but they would be on an extremely steep learning curve for the chassis. They don't have the decades of experience in road racing that the above mentioned race prep shops do.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| mw1029h | 03-28-2005 05:36 AM |
No one mentioned team Orca? They did a great job on preparing the viper a few years back.
| kfoote | 03-28-2005 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE=mw1029h]No one mentioned team Orca? They did a great job on preparing the viper a few years back.[/QUOTE]
Team Oreca is based in France, not the US. They are a top level team, but the discussiuon was for US-based teams, which is why they didn't get mentioned.
Team Oreca is based in France, not the US. They are a top level team, but the discussiuon was for US-based teams, which is why they didn't get mentioned.
| BriDrive | 03-28-2005 01:49 PM |
Frankly, I think the reason you won't see a full-on GT spec STI anytime soon from private teams is because of this: They will say WHY? There's no incentive to dump a small fortune into developing the platform. There are already better/proven/developed/tested cars to start from. (Think Porsche )(Think factory backed CTS-V development) (Think Dodge Viper factory development) See the trend, no cynisism implied.
It will take Subaru of America jack to launch this platform...and I just don't see it happening...unfortunately. Subaru needs to take the initial financial plunge for the "GT STI's" baby steps...then let professional raceteam / organizations springboard from their R&D and 1~2 year rules bullet biting.
Its a foregone conclusion that MANY US based teams easily have the infrastructure to race the car...but they race cars that have a reasonable shot at "return on investment" for THEM and their SPONSORS.....
A reasonable analogy to what happens is this: (Well funded mind you, and top notch drivers Brabham/Kox) The Krohn-Barbour Murcielago R-GT effort that failed miserably in ALMS...why...it takes 'lotsa cash, lotsa years, and lotsa patience and perserverence to bring a new horse into the race...Krohn-Barbour had/have better ways to push there brand, especially after just "LIMITED" support from Lamborghini USA.
BriDrive
It will take Subaru of America jack to launch this platform...and I just don't see it happening...unfortunately. Subaru needs to take the initial financial plunge for the "GT STI's" baby steps...then let professional raceteam / organizations springboard from their R&D and 1~2 year rules bullet biting.
Its a foregone conclusion that MANY US based teams easily have the infrastructure to race the car...but they race cars that have a reasonable shot at "return on investment" for THEM and their SPONSORS.....
A reasonable analogy to what happens is this: (Well funded mind you, and top notch drivers Brabham/Kox) The Krohn-Barbour Murcielago R-GT effort that failed miserably in ALMS...why...it takes 'lotsa cash, lotsa years, and lotsa patience and perserverence to bring a new horse into the race...Krohn-Barbour had/have better ways to push there brand, especially after just "LIMITED" support from Lamborghini USA.
BriDrive
| STiTuner | 03-28-2005 02:32 PM |
I think TechSport could probably do a pretty damn good job at it, if they didn't have prior arrangements with AFReserve. Andy Brown and his crew do some amazing prep work on race cars, and with his prior knowledge from Prodrive/WRC I think he could deffinatly help put together a tough team.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 03-28-2005 03:48 PM |
Hello,
I think Bri hit the nail on the head. Your sponsors want you to make them look good. If they don't care about the car you're using, you'll use a car that is easier to win with. If they care about the car you use, you'll chose the car they want, and if it needs more development than other cars, those sponsors will be paying for it.
Who wants to pay for the development of a Subaru? Well, I can think of one company... Subaru. Everyone else (who has the millions it takes), couldn't care less about developing a Subaru.
So it will take Subaru stepping up to the plate to get a Subaru to the top of this caliber of professional racing. Well, either that or some REALLY deep pockets at a private team.
Like I said by email, [email�protected] Mikes, feel free to ask about my thoughts on anything. You guys have one heck of an uphill battle to do this without factory support. I hope the differentials discussion was useful.
Joel
I think Bri hit the nail on the head. Your sponsors want you to make them look good. If they don't care about the car you're using, you'll use a car that is easier to win with. If they care about the car you use, you'll chose the car they want, and if it needs more development than other cars, those sponsors will be paying for it.
Who wants to pay for the development of a Subaru? Well, I can think of one company... Subaru. Everyone else (who has the millions it takes), couldn't care less about developing a Subaru.
So it will take Subaru stepping up to the plate to get a Subaru to the top of this caliber of professional racing. Well, either that or some REALLY deep pockets at a private team.
Like I said by email, [email�protected] Mikes, feel free to ask about my thoughts on anything. You guys have one heck of an uphill battle to do this without factory support. I hope the differentials discussion was useful.
Joel
| dmitrik4 | 03-28-2005 05:20 PM |
it should be interesting to see how the rules regarding the WRX change as the seaosn progresses.
for that matter, it will be interesting to see how the tri-point cars progress. too bad for pobst--some bad luck there, but i think altenburg showed how good the 6 might be....
for that matter, it will be interesting to see how the tri-point cars progress. too bad for pobst--some bad luck there, but i think altenburg showed how good the 6 might be....
| PaulC | 03-28-2005 05:39 PM |
[QUOTE=dmitrik4]it should be interesting to see how the rules regarding the WRX change as the seaosn progresses.
for that matter, it will be interesting to see how the tri-point cars progress. too bad for pobst--some bad luck there, but i think altenburg showed how good the 6 might be....[/QUOTE]
Well he showed them too well, they got slapped with an intake restrictor shortly after the race.
for that matter, it will be interesting to see how the tri-point cars progress. too bad for pobst--some bad luck there, but i think altenburg showed how good the 6 might be....[/QUOTE]
Well he showed them too well, they got slapped with an intake restrictor shortly after the race.
| zzyzx | 03-28-2005 05:46 PM |
[QUOTE=PaulC]Well he showed them too well, they got slapped with an intake restrictor shortly [b]before[/b] the race.[/QUOTE]
Fixed that for you.
Fixed that for you.
| pio!pio! | 03-28-2005 05:48 PM |
and the Mazda was still creeping on the BMW's on the straights..maybe it was drafting though?
| baileypicks24 | 03-28-2005 05:48 PM |
[QUOTE=PaulC]Well he showed them too well, they got slapped with an intake restrictor shortly after the race.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I heard the 6s got slapped with a restrictor BEFORE the event, and now ANOTHER one AFTER? Jesus...
Gotta keep em competetive somehow eh?
Wow, I heard the 6s got slapped with a restrictor BEFORE the event, and now ANOTHER one AFTER? Jesus...
Gotta keep em competetive somehow eh?
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