| Ferg | 03-04-2005 10:46 PM |
Certainly a strange way to start things off... It definately should lead to very exciting race. :D
[QUOTE]Fisichella Fastest in First Qualifying - Australian GP
Saturday March 5th, 2005
By Will Gray
Giancarlo Fisichella set the fastest time in opening qualifying for Sunday's Australian Grand Prix as a mid-session rainstorm helped shuffle the pack and set up the chance of a mixed grid for the season-opening event.
Fisichella set a time of 1:33.171 just seconds before a rainstorm ruined the chances of his rival front-runners and virtually assured him of starting Sunday's race from pole position.
New qualifying rules will see the opening session, which was run in the finishing order from last year's season-ending Brazilian Grand Prix, aggregated with Sunday morning's qualifying laps to decide the grid.
And with second-placed Jarno Trulli 2.099 seconds back in the lead Toyota and Fisichella's main rivals from McLaren and Ferrari much further behind, the new rules look to have thrown things up in the air from the very start.
World champion Michael Schumacher set his lap time in the worst conditions and finished 24.760 seconds off the pace leaving him with little chance of starting and further up than the second last row of the grid.
Australian Mark Webber, who was the sixth driver out in the session, finished third fastest in his Williams but was 3.546 seconds slower than Fisichella as his team-mate Nick Heidfeld finished down in seventh.
Former world champion Jacques Villeneuve finished fourth fastest, 3.813 seconds off the lead pace in his Sauber but his team-mate Felipe Massa was the unlucky driver who hit the downpour just after Fisichella's lap.
Red Bull Racing driver Christian Klien finished fifth fastest, just ahead of his more experienced team-mate David Coulthard after setting their times on a drying track earlier in the session.
Briton Jenson Button finished eighth fastest but was 8.341 seconds behind Fiscihella while Jordan Narain Karthikeyan finished ninth and McLaren driver Kimi Raikkonen finished off the top ten.
Dutchman Christijan Albers was the first man out on a damp track in temperatures of 16 degrees Celsius and he set a time of 1:49.230 in his 2005-spec Minardi, which had to be worked on overnight to meet the regulations.
His Austrian team-mate Patrick Friesacher followed but could not better him and it soon became clear that the two Minardi drivers were suffering from a severe lack of testing on their newly modified car.
Indian Karthikeyan, who crashed his Jordan at the end of morning practice and will be awarded a 10-spot grid penalty after changing his engine, was next out and moved five seconds ahead.
Button, who posted the final retirement of the season in Brazil, was the first lead runner on track and he set a benchmark time of 1:41.512 but with the sun rapidly drying the track suggested his name would soon slip down the timesheets.
German Heidfeld immediately went 1.795 seconds faster than Button, despite losing time when he went wide onto the grass during his lap, and Webber then blew his Williams team-mate's time away by a further three seconds.
Klien continued Red Bull's early pace to slot into second as conditions continued to dry out to leave a mostly dry track with occasional puddles on some of the corners.
Italian Trulli then went fastest but two-time Australian Grand Prix winner Coulthard, a self-proclaimed struggler with single-lap qualifying, complained of oversteer as he finished slower than team-mate Klien.
Villeneuve chose to risk dry tyres on his Sauber but he spun on his out-lap and only just managed to avoid the walls. He was slow in the first section but his gamble paid off on the latter part of the lap and he slotted into third.
The sky began to darken as Fisichella took to the track and he set the fastest time just seconds before a massive rainstorm drenched the track and left all remaining runners with no chance of improving on the Italian's time.
The soaking circuit saw Felipe Massa, the next man out, fail to finish his lap and Takuma Sato, out next, crash his BAR-Honda on his out-lap in turn eight and hit the wall hard.
The session was red-flagged after Schumacher's run to clear the debris from Sato's crash and when it re-started his team-mate Rubens Barrichello finished 12.310 seconds off the pace in the slippery conditions.
Raikkonen managed to finish just ahead of Barrichello to nudge his way into the top ten runners but Montoya, running last after winning in Brazil last year, failed to match his team-mate's pace and finished 11th.
The finishing times will leave Sunday's grid in a topsy-turvey order and, providing there are no unusual weather patterns on Sunday, the finishing order from Saturday's session is likely to remain similar for the grid itself.
Pos Driver Team Time
1. (12) Fisichella Renault (M) 1:33.171
2. (9) Trulli Toyota (M) 1:35.270 + 2.099
3. (7) Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:36.717 + 3.546
4. (11) Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:36.984 + 3.813
5. (8) Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:37.486 + 4.315
6. (10) Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:38.320 + 5.149
7. (6) Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:39.717 + 6.546
8. (5) Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:41.512 + 8.341
9. (3) Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:44.357 + 11.186
10. (19) Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:44.997 + 11.826
11. (20) Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:45.325 + 12.154
12. (18) Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:45.481 + 12.310
13. (4) Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:46.846 + 13.675
14. (17) Alonso Renault (M) 1:47.708 + 14.537
15. (1) Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) 1:49.230 + 16.059
16. (2) Freisacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) 1:50.864 + 17.693
17. (16) R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:51.495 + 18.324
18. (14) M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:57.931 + 24.760
19. (13) Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) No Time
20. (15) Sato BAR-Honda (M) No Time
All Timing Unofficial[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Fisichella Fastest in First Qualifying - Australian GP
Saturday March 5th, 2005
By Will Gray
Giancarlo Fisichella set the fastest time in opening qualifying for Sunday's Australian Grand Prix as a mid-session rainstorm helped shuffle the pack and set up the chance of a mixed grid for the season-opening event.
Fisichella set a time of 1:33.171 just seconds before a rainstorm ruined the chances of his rival front-runners and virtually assured him of starting Sunday's race from pole position.
New qualifying rules will see the opening session, which was run in the finishing order from last year's season-ending Brazilian Grand Prix, aggregated with Sunday morning's qualifying laps to decide the grid.
And with second-placed Jarno Trulli 2.099 seconds back in the lead Toyota and Fisichella's main rivals from McLaren and Ferrari much further behind, the new rules look to have thrown things up in the air from the very start.
World champion Michael Schumacher set his lap time in the worst conditions and finished 24.760 seconds off the pace leaving him with little chance of starting and further up than the second last row of the grid.
Australian Mark Webber, who was the sixth driver out in the session, finished third fastest in his Williams but was 3.546 seconds slower than Fisichella as his team-mate Nick Heidfeld finished down in seventh.
Former world champion Jacques Villeneuve finished fourth fastest, 3.813 seconds off the lead pace in his Sauber but his team-mate Felipe Massa was the unlucky driver who hit the downpour just after Fisichella's lap.
Red Bull Racing driver Christian Klien finished fifth fastest, just ahead of his more experienced team-mate David Coulthard after setting their times on a drying track earlier in the session.
Briton Jenson Button finished eighth fastest but was 8.341 seconds behind Fiscihella while Jordan Narain Karthikeyan finished ninth and McLaren driver Kimi Raikkonen finished off the top ten.
Dutchman Christijan Albers was the first man out on a damp track in temperatures of 16 degrees Celsius and he set a time of 1:49.230 in his 2005-spec Minardi, which had to be worked on overnight to meet the regulations.
His Austrian team-mate Patrick Friesacher followed but could not better him and it soon became clear that the two Minardi drivers were suffering from a severe lack of testing on their newly modified car.
Indian Karthikeyan, who crashed his Jordan at the end of morning practice and will be awarded a 10-spot grid penalty after changing his engine, was next out and moved five seconds ahead.
Button, who posted the final retirement of the season in Brazil, was the first lead runner on track and he set a benchmark time of 1:41.512 but with the sun rapidly drying the track suggested his name would soon slip down the timesheets.
German Heidfeld immediately went 1.795 seconds faster than Button, despite losing time when he went wide onto the grass during his lap, and Webber then blew his Williams team-mate's time away by a further three seconds.
Klien continued Red Bull's early pace to slot into second as conditions continued to dry out to leave a mostly dry track with occasional puddles on some of the corners.
Italian Trulli then went fastest but two-time Australian Grand Prix winner Coulthard, a self-proclaimed struggler with single-lap qualifying, complained of oversteer as he finished slower than team-mate Klien.
Villeneuve chose to risk dry tyres on his Sauber but he spun on his out-lap and only just managed to avoid the walls. He was slow in the first section but his gamble paid off on the latter part of the lap and he slotted into third.
The sky began to darken as Fisichella took to the track and he set the fastest time just seconds before a massive rainstorm drenched the track and left all remaining runners with no chance of improving on the Italian's time.
The soaking circuit saw Felipe Massa, the next man out, fail to finish his lap and Takuma Sato, out next, crash his BAR-Honda on his out-lap in turn eight and hit the wall hard.
The session was red-flagged after Schumacher's run to clear the debris from Sato's crash and when it re-started his team-mate Rubens Barrichello finished 12.310 seconds off the pace in the slippery conditions.
Raikkonen managed to finish just ahead of Barrichello to nudge his way into the top ten runners but Montoya, running last after winning in Brazil last year, failed to match his team-mate's pace and finished 11th.
The finishing times will leave Sunday's grid in a topsy-turvey order and, providing there are no unusual weather patterns on Sunday, the finishing order from Saturday's session is likely to remain similar for the grid itself.
Pos Driver Team Time
1. (12) Fisichella Renault (M) 1:33.171
2. (9) Trulli Toyota (M) 1:35.270 + 2.099
3. (7) Webber Williams-BMW (M) 1:36.717 + 3.546
4. (11) Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas (M) 1:36.984 + 3.813
5. (8) Klien Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:37.486 + 4.315
6. (10) Coulthard Red Bull-Cosworth (M) 1:38.320 + 5.149
7. (6) Heidfeld Williams-BMW (M) 1:39.717 + 6.546
8. (5) Button BAR-Honda (M) 1:41.512 + 8.341
9. (3) Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:44.357 + 11.186
10. (19) Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:44.997 + 11.826
11. (20) Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:45.325 + 12.154
12. (18) Barrichello Ferrari (B) 1:45.481 + 12.310
13. (4) Monteiro Jordan-Toyota (B) 1:46.846 + 13.675
14. (17) Alonso Renault (M) 1:47.708 + 14.537
15. (1) Albers Minardi-Cosworth (B) 1:49.230 + 16.059
16. (2) Freisacher Minardi-Cosworth (B) 1:50.864 + 17.693
17. (16) R.Schumacher Toyota (M) 1:51.495 + 18.324
18. (14) M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:57.931 + 24.760
19. (13) Massa Sauber-Petronas (M) No Time
20. (15) Sato BAR-Honda (M) No Time
All Timing Unofficial[/QUOTE]
| Wr4wrX | 03-04-2005 10:55 PM |
I love that somehow Minardi actually ended up owning Ferrari/Schumi...
| erich_sc | 03-04-2005 11:40 PM |
Maybe I'll put a dollar down on MS because the odds must be million to one for a win now! :)
| Bonzo | 03-05-2005 12:25 AM |
A million to one for a pole maybe. A win for the red cars is still easily in the cards.
Overall with the new rules I am not sure what to think. On one hand I think the FIA has castrated the essence of F1 but on the other it may make for some very interesting late race (worn tire) position changes. The jury is still out.
Overall with the new rules I am not sure what to think. On one hand I think the FIA has castrated the essence of F1 but on the other it may make for some very interesting late race (worn tire) position changes. The jury is still out.
| bemani | 03-05-2005 02:45 AM |
I think its funny that they showed Massa got lapped in qualifying.
| rupertberr | 03-05-2005 08:43 AM |
[QUOTE=johnfelstead]both Minardi's ahead of both Schumachers. :lol:[/QUOTE]
:lol: :eek: :banana:
:lol: :eek: :banana:
| boxered | 03-05-2005 10:28 AM |
MS is sandbagging..don't get your hopes up.
| artkevin | 03-05-2005 11:42 AM |
[QUOTE=boxered]MS is sandbagging..don't get your hopes up.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you can sandbag in a typhoon. We all know he has pace but im starting higher then 10th is highly unlikely.
I don't think you can sandbag in a typhoon. We all know he has pace but im starting higher then 10th is highly unlikely.
| Bonzo | 03-05-2005 12:43 PM |
MS was not sand bagging. MS chose the wrong tire for the changing conditions. I was impressed by the last 4 runners in full wet conditions. All I can say is hairball:eek:
fwiw:
I did some laps at Albert Park last night. The one thing that was obvious to me is corner exit speed and rear traction is key here. Their are about 3 important sections where you're under hard acelleration all the while still exiting a corner. So if your car has oversteer your going slow and battling a beast while watching the wall pass by very close. This was in the dry. The rain just magnifies everything. I was using EA's F1C sim driving Chili Boys, Williams 02 spec car.
fwiw:
I did some laps at Albert Park last night. The one thing that was obvious to me is corner exit speed and rear traction is key here. Their are about 3 important sections where you're under hard acelleration all the while still exiting a corner. So if your car has oversteer your going slow and battling a beast while watching the wall pass by very close. This was in the dry. The rain just magnifies everything. I was using EA's F1C sim driving Chili Boys, Williams 02 spec car.
| Dr. WOT | 03-05-2005 03:08 PM |
He didn't choose the wrong tire, we went out during a monsoon.
| Bonzo | 03-05-2005 03:40 PM |
I thought they said he was on intermediates, not full wets.
| TimStevens | 03-05-2005 03:46 PM |
He was on intermediates, the tread patterns look a lot different.
intermediates = wrong tires.
intermediates = wrong tires.
| BillT | 03-05-2005 07:13 PM |
My guess is that for the time period they had to choose tires, intermediates were correct and that they didn't have the time to change to full wets once the rain started pouring and they had to make their way onto the track.
| WRSport | 03-05-2005 08:37 PM |
Interesting how they are pulling off without even putting down a second qualifying time. Even with a new engine in the ferrari they are that concerned?
| Bonzo | 03-05-2005 11:18 PM |
Micheal, shame on you. It was clearly his fault. MS moved way offline for a block (lame I know) and pushed Webber into the grass and then into MS.
Haha!
Great race tho. The Rennies look fast.
Haha!
Great race tho. The Rennies look fast.
| finnRex | 03-05-2005 11:37 PM |
Bonzo, you are 100% spot on. Michael=teh cack for trying to block Heidfeld. He got what he deserved. I never would have guessed the results in a million years.
My Silver Arrows got some points though, and that's a promising sign(reliability). I'm a bit surprised that JPM did better than Kimi. Then again, Kimi messed up the second round of qualifying. Incredible recovery though;)...I was like :eek:
Mika
My Silver Arrows got some points though, and that's a promising sign(reliability). I'm a bit surprised that JPM did better than Kimi. Then again, Kimi messed up the second round of qualifying. Incredible recovery though;)...I was like :eek:
Mika
| erich_sc | 03-06-2005 12:01 AM |
The engines are designed to last two races, they had better last at least through one. The real test will be how many are still running by the end of the second race.
| mtnbkrcr | 03-06-2005 12:08 AM |
Well, if you aren't in the points running you could do what BAR did and pull both drivers in the pit lane on the last lap and they don't "finish" the race. :rolleyes: That way they can start the next race with brand new engines. I bet F1 officials will figure out a way to make sure this doesn't happen alot.
| johnfelstead | 03-06-2005 12:22 AM |
LOL @ Button/Fry.
cue Button. Why did you pull into the pits Jenson? The team said there was a technical problem so i had to stop.
cue Fry. Why did your BAR cars pull into the pits? It was a tactical decision to allow us to run new engines at the next race.
PMSL, what was it Max said about teams not using the loopholes in the rules? :lol:
MS got what he deserved, what a stupid move cutting off Heidfeld so he had to go on the grass losing all his braking ability.
As to the new rules re tyres and aero packages, what a yawn fest, it doesnt look like we will see much in terms of racing under these new regulations, how many overtaking moves where there? If you want good racing multiply the mechanical grip levels significantly, dont reduce them with rock hard tyres. :rolleyes:
JV, the mobile chicane from hell, he was pretty poor.
DC did a good job, it's nice to see him enjoying the new team, i thought he should have packed it in last year but am changing my mind at the moment, he might just be the right person to sort Red Bull out before the youngsters take over. I bet Jaguar/Ford are reeling from that race result. :o
Oh yeh, and DC beat MW in his old race car, quality. :D
cue Button. Why did you pull into the pits Jenson? The team said there was a technical problem so i had to stop.
cue Fry. Why did your BAR cars pull into the pits? It was a tactical decision to allow us to run new engines at the next race.
PMSL, what was it Max said about teams not using the loopholes in the rules? :lol:
MS got what he deserved, what a stupid move cutting off Heidfeld so he had to go on the grass losing all his braking ability.
As to the new rules re tyres and aero packages, what a yawn fest, it doesnt look like we will see much in terms of racing under these new regulations, how many overtaking moves where there? If you want good racing multiply the mechanical grip levels significantly, dont reduce them with rock hard tyres. :rolleyes:
JV, the mobile chicane from hell, he was pretty poor.
DC did a good job, it's nice to see him enjoying the new team, i thought he should have packed it in last year but am changing my mind at the moment, he might just be the right person to sort Red Bull out before the youngsters take over. I bet Jaguar/Ford are reeling from that race result. :o
Oh yeh, and DC beat MW in his old race car, quality. :D
| sbomm | 03-06-2005 12:23 AM |
With Shumacher and BAR having fresh engines at Maylasia do they have to use them for round 3 while all the others have new engines?
| johnfelstead | 03-06-2005 12:23 AM |
yes, unless they pit on the last lap. :lol:
| Bonzo | 03-06-2005 12:28 AM |
Why do tracks still employ the use of gravel to stop cars? Pave this area so we have no more stuck cars slowing the race and no more laying down gravel on the track after every off.
| BillT | 03-06-2005 08:22 AM |
[QUOTE=johnfelstead]
As to the new rules re tyres and aero packages, what a yawn fest, it doesnt look like we will see much in terms of racing under these new regulations, how many overtaking moves where there? If you want good racing multiply the mechanical grip levels significantly, dont reduce them with rock hard tyres. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly. If you where expecting to see all sorts of passing, then this race was a big disapointment.
As to the new rules re tyres and aero packages, what a yawn fest, it doesnt look like we will see much in terms of racing under these new regulations, how many overtaking moves where there? If you want good racing multiply the mechanical grip levels significantly, dont reduce them with rock hard tyres. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly. If you where expecting to see all sorts of passing, then this race was a big disapointment.
| StuBeck | 03-06-2005 09:16 AM |
Its F1, there has never been tons of passing. I think part of the problem is that the Bridgestone and Michelin thought it would be much warmer so they made harder tires, look at the tires on most of the cars, they were fine at the end of the race. Let people get used to the tires a bit more and it will get better. People were also being conservative because of the engine regulations. I thought it was a great race, and Red Bull doing good was very nice too.
I expect there to be an FIA rule change about the engine changing after the next race if people pull the same crap they did today. MS could have continued and BAR obviously could have, and Mosley already said they would change something if the rules were pushed around like this.
I expect there to be an FIA rule change about the engine changing after the next race if people pull the same crap they did today. MS could have continued and BAR obviously could have, and Mosley already said they would change something if the rules were pushed around like this.
| randy zimmer | 03-06-2005 10:56 AM |
passing
�
�
OK, so I fell asleep in front of the TV.
2nd place started 13th.
Last I saw he was behind JV and got repassed after a lunge.
Did TV show any more of the passes or was it all in the pits?
Rubens moved up too.
(I usually wake up if Hobbs says "Crickey").
rz
2nd place started 13th.
Last I saw he was behind JV and got repassed after a lunge.
Did TV show any more of the passes or was it all in the pits?
Rubens moved up too.
(I usually wake up if Hobbs says "Crickey").
rz
| Bonzo | 03-06-2005 12:06 PM |
Like Stubeck said the tires were made on the safe side, esp for the first race using this rule. I lke the tire rule. It makes the driver think about the whole race. Experience, patience and setup will win races.
As for the engine rule I don't like it. It will change or decide races in a bad way. Winning out of attrition does make a good show. I bet if MS keeps dropping out early this rule will be changed rather quickly. MS out of the race equals bad business for Bernie.
The qual rule can also suck donkey... Too mach can happen ove the course of two days. Qualifying is now a roll of the dice. Before the fastest cars started at the front.
As for the engine rule I don't like it. It will change or decide races in a bad way. Winning out of attrition does make a good show. I bet if MS keeps dropping out early this rule will be changed rather quickly. MS out of the race equals bad business for Bernie.
The qual rule can also suck donkey... Too mach can happen ove the course of two days. Qualifying is now a roll of the dice. Before the fastest cars started at the front.
| HoRo1 | 03-06-2005 12:31 PM |
They should get Calvin Fish into these broadcasts so that we can listen to Calvin and Hobbs.
| BillT | 03-06-2005 01:08 PM |
The TV coverage was pretty bad...they never really showed much of Rubens making his way through the field - they seemed to mostly concentrate on following Michael and Kimi back in pack.
Does anyone know what happened to Trulli?
With MS retiring early and getting a fresh engine for the next race, do you think this will mean the debut of the F2005 for MS a race earlier than expected? The other teams need to be worried about how good the next gen Ferrari will be as Rubens was able to keep pace and get 2nd in the old car with the old engine.
Does anyone know what happened to Trulli?
With MS retiring early and getting a fresh engine for the next race, do you think this will mean the debut of the F2005 for MS a race earlier than expected? The other teams need to be worried about how good the next gen Ferrari will be as Rubens was able to keep pace and get 2nd in the old car with the old engine.
| gtguy | 03-06-2005 01:37 PM |
Schumacher's a putz! How dare he have the corner. He should have moved aside so that Heidfeld could have completed the move. Outrageous. :lol: :lol:
Awesome drive from Fisichella, and DC too, as well as Barrichello. Sad to say that for the TV show, they just changed the car color from red to blue/yellow. Most anti-Ferrari folks will be happy just because of that color change, however. But will the FIA be happy at the quality of the show?
Personally, I think that the FIA is going to be pretty disappointed. Had they just left the bloody cars alone, normal evolution would have done what they tried to do with the regulations, but succeeded only in making F1 more expensive for everyone.
What we have now is the same, only slightly different. Nobody really lost much time because of rubber going bad except for Montoya, something attributable to his driving style.
And sorry to say, for all the antis, but with a normal qualifying, Ferrari almost certainly gets two drivers in the top four, which would have put the FIA right back at square one. As it was, the FIA got lucky with unpredictable weather, in that it put most of the fastest cars (except for the well-timed Renaults) at the back of the grid. This allowed cars that otherwise don't really have the pace (Williams, Red Bull) but are close, to race well. Coulthard drove the wheels off that car. Again, awesome drive from him, and from Barrichello. Alonso would almost certainly have gotten second had the Villeneuve Chicane not been present, but that's life in F1. Good on him for not trying anything crazy, and biding his time.
Pre-spearing, Schumacher was on pace for a top 6, possibly better, as we don't know how hard he would/could have pushed toward the end of the race. Yes, he tried to shut the door kind of late, but if Heidfeld shows a bit of patience (the only way for him to complete that pass would have been for Schumacher to stay off the racing line, and as he is the lead car, why would he do that?), both cars live to fight again.
Meanwhile, the FIA is going to have to do something about that engine rule. How long, particularly if Ferrari and BAR do well, will we begin to see more and more out-of-contention drivers pulling the cars off with "hydraulic failure" or some such bollocks. The good thing is that many predicted this potential loophole. Now it's up to the FIA to close it.
There wasn't as much racing as I'd hoped. Perhaps things will be different in Malaysia, a very hot race that could also see some engine expirations, as well as the demon of excessive tire wear.
I think Ferrari will be heartened by the performance of the F2004M. I think that had they gotten whomped by McLaren and Renault, with Williams nipping at their heels, you probably would have seen the developement pace of the new car accelerated a bit. But with a 19-race season, even if they don't excel at the first four, as long as they get points, they'll be pretty pleased, I think.
Now that the season's here, I can't wait two more weeks, dangit! :lol:
Kevin
Awesome drive from Fisichella, and DC too, as well as Barrichello. Sad to say that for the TV show, they just changed the car color from red to blue/yellow. Most anti-Ferrari folks will be happy just because of that color change, however. But will the FIA be happy at the quality of the show?
Personally, I think that the FIA is going to be pretty disappointed. Had they just left the bloody cars alone, normal evolution would have done what they tried to do with the regulations, but succeeded only in making F1 more expensive for everyone.
What we have now is the same, only slightly different. Nobody really lost much time because of rubber going bad except for Montoya, something attributable to his driving style.
And sorry to say, for all the antis, but with a normal qualifying, Ferrari almost certainly gets two drivers in the top four, which would have put the FIA right back at square one. As it was, the FIA got lucky with unpredictable weather, in that it put most of the fastest cars (except for the well-timed Renaults) at the back of the grid. This allowed cars that otherwise don't really have the pace (Williams, Red Bull) but are close, to race well. Coulthard drove the wheels off that car. Again, awesome drive from him, and from Barrichello. Alonso would almost certainly have gotten second had the Villeneuve Chicane not been present, but that's life in F1. Good on him for not trying anything crazy, and biding his time.
Pre-spearing, Schumacher was on pace for a top 6, possibly better, as we don't know how hard he would/could have pushed toward the end of the race. Yes, he tried to shut the door kind of late, but if Heidfeld shows a bit of patience (the only way for him to complete that pass would have been for Schumacher to stay off the racing line, and as he is the lead car, why would he do that?), both cars live to fight again.
Meanwhile, the FIA is going to have to do something about that engine rule. How long, particularly if Ferrari and BAR do well, will we begin to see more and more out-of-contention drivers pulling the cars off with "hydraulic failure" or some such bollocks. The good thing is that many predicted this potential loophole. Now it's up to the FIA to close it.
There wasn't as much racing as I'd hoped. Perhaps things will be different in Malaysia, a very hot race that could also see some engine expirations, as well as the demon of excessive tire wear.
I think Ferrari will be heartened by the performance of the F2004M. I think that had they gotten whomped by McLaren and Renault, with Williams nipping at their heels, you probably would have seen the developement pace of the new car accelerated a bit. But with a 19-race season, even if they don't excel at the first four, as long as they get points, they'll be pretty pleased, I think.
Now that the season's here, I can't wait two more weeks, dangit! :lol:
Kevin
| Lafora | 03-06-2005 01:47 PM |
Trulli's car ate up the rear tires after the first pitstop
| johnfelstead | 03-06-2005 02:32 PM |
Kevin, you have schmi/ferrari hate too much on the brain. ;)
If anyone else pulled the move MS did i would say they were being stupid too. Heidfeld was going for a pass, MS saw that and rather than fighting the corner out like a good midfield running F1 driver, he took the track away so heidfeld had to go on the grass. Nick was already commited to the pass when MS moved to take the track away, cutting off his track space meant that instead of them going into the corner side by side and racing, they both were taken out because nick couldnt slow down. There isnt much grip on the grass, especially on these new tyres. :)
Put MS in the midfield and you see how his racing talent isnt as developed as his lapping tallent, he usually screws up when in that position these days, we might get to see this more as the year progresses. It's interesting to see his instincts havnt changed though, someones about to pass, ram the bastards off the track is his first reaction. ;) Any other driver would be being investigated by the stewards to see if they had a case to answer for causing an unavoidable crash, as per the new for 2004 rules where you can get penalised at the next race for such an infringement rather than be given a stop go penalty as per 2003.
As to him sitting there beconning marshalls on to push him out of the gravel, that has got to be stopped! Those marshalls should not be put in danger unless absolutely required, he should switch off and get out like every other F1 driver does.
The most disapointing thing about this race is that even with the mixed up grid and superior car/driver combo's in midfield, there was no overtaking worth a comment on. The new rules dont allow you to run close, they have limited that even more by taking away mechanical grip. There is a reason why Formula Ford is more exciting to watch than F3, thats because mechanical grip is all you have in FF so you can race as close as you like everywhere on the track. If we want good racing bring back fat ass slicks, get rid of the front wings aero afect and we might get to see some. Thats never gonna happen whilst Max is about though.
If anyone else pulled the move MS did i would say they were being stupid too. Heidfeld was going for a pass, MS saw that and rather than fighting the corner out like a good midfield running F1 driver, he took the track away so heidfeld had to go on the grass. Nick was already commited to the pass when MS moved to take the track away, cutting off his track space meant that instead of them going into the corner side by side and racing, they both were taken out because nick couldnt slow down. There isnt much grip on the grass, especially on these new tyres. :)
Put MS in the midfield and you see how his racing talent isnt as developed as his lapping tallent, he usually screws up when in that position these days, we might get to see this more as the year progresses. It's interesting to see his instincts havnt changed though, someones about to pass, ram the bastards off the track is his first reaction. ;) Any other driver would be being investigated by the stewards to see if they had a case to answer for causing an unavoidable crash, as per the new for 2004 rules where you can get penalised at the next race for such an infringement rather than be given a stop go penalty as per 2003.
As to him sitting there beconning marshalls on to push him out of the gravel, that has got to be stopped! Those marshalls should not be put in danger unless absolutely required, he should switch off and get out like every other F1 driver does.
The most disapointing thing about this race is that even with the mixed up grid and superior car/driver combo's in midfield, there was no overtaking worth a comment on. The new rules dont allow you to run close, they have limited that even more by taking away mechanical grip. There is a reason why Formula Ford is more exciting to watch than F3, thats because mechanical grip is all you have in FF so you can race as close as you like everywhere on the track. If we want good racing bring back fat ass slicks, get rid of the front wings aero afect and we might get to see some. Thats never gonna happen whilst Max is about though.
| RoninSTI | 03-06-2005 02:51 PM |
johnfelstead - great comments, i couldnt agree more.
| squid_sti | 03-06-2005 03:13 PM |
[QUOTE=grandpa rex]I believe that the concorde agrement specifies that the teams must field a grid of 20 cars.
What's going to happen if Minardi doesn't race? [/QUOTE]
Minardi: will get DNS instead of DNF.
What's going to happen if Minardi doesn't race? [/QUOTE]
Minardi: will get DNS instead of DNF.
| gargleblaster | 03-06-2005 03:15 PM |
*clapping 4 john* :) well stated.
| TimStevens | 03-06-2005 04:11 PM |
Man, I really throught DC was going to get a podium today. I still have no idea when Rubens and Alonso sniped him. Suddenly he was in 2nd instead of 4th and I looked like this :confused:
Great start for Red Bull, anyway, and a promising start for DC's new career.
Great start for Red Bull, anyway, and a promising start for DC's new career.
| AndyRoo | 03-06-2005 06:13 PM |
[QUOTE=johnfelstead]Put MS in the midfield and you see how his racing talent isnt as developed as his lapping tallent, he usually screws up when in that position these days, we might get to see this more as the year progresses.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely!
Anyway, I hope Max doesn't take the credit for the unusual finish order. Nice to see a wide range of cars in the top 10 though.
Yay for Fisi!
- Andrew
Absolutely!
Anyway, I hope Max doesn't take the credit for the unusual finish order. Nice to see a wide range of cars in the top 10 though.
Yay for Fisi!
- Andrew
| gtguy | 03-06-2005 06:29 PM |
We can agree to disagree on Schumacher, John. Whether he was in his position or Heidfeld's, he would have still been in the wrong in many peoples' eyes. That's just how it goes, but why quibble over it.
You're right about the lack of passing. And I don't see that changing. Partly I think that it's tire paranoia, in that everyone is worried about jinking around, trying different lines and thus prematurely wearing out the rubber, leaving them hosed late in the race. Hopefully, now that people see that the tires will last a race distance, and further, can still be fast late in the race, that will relax some.
What's interesting is that the cars are pretty evenly matched when it comes to defensive driving, but once a faster car gets by a slower one, the difference is apparent. Witness Alonso and Villeneuve.
The season is young, and there's much to look forward to. Maybe even that Schumacher guy will learn how to behave like a mid-packer. :lol:
Oh, and don't the rules state that a car can be pushed out of the kitty litter by stewards if it is deemed to be in a "dangerous position?" Sure, the FIA should change that rule, but if a driver takes advantage of it, it is within the rules, yes?
Kevin
You're right about the lack of passing. And I don't see that changing. Partly I think that it's tire paranoia, in that everyone is worried about jinking around, trying different lines and thus prematurely wearing out the rubber, leaving them hosed late in the race. Hopefully, now that people see that the tires will last a race distance, and further, can still be fast late in the race, that will relax some.
What's interesting is that the cars are pretty evenly matched when it comes to defensive driving, but once a faster car gets by a slower one, the difference is apparent. Witness Alonso and Villeneuve.
The season is young, and there's much to look forward to. Maybe even that Schumacher guy will learn how to behave like a mid-packer. :lol:
Oh, and don't the rules state that a car can be pushed out of the kitty litter by stewards if it is deemed to be in a "dangerous position?" Sure, the FIA should change that rule, but if a driver takes advantage of it, it is within the rules, yes?
Kevin
| johnfelstead | 03-06-2005 06:45 PM |
[QUOTE=gtguy]
Oh, and don't the rules state that a car can be pushed out of the kitty litter by stewards if it is deemed to be in a "dangerous position?" Sure, the FIA should change that rule, but if a driver takes advantage of it, it is within the rules, yes?
Kevin[/QUOTE]
Yes they do Kevin, and i am not criticising MS for using the rule, i am saying that rule has to be changed as its clearly being used in a way its not designed to be, and is endangering MS and the marshalls in that process.
Oh, and don't the rules state that a car can be pushed out of the kitty litter by stewards if it is deemed to be in a "dangerous position?" Sure, the FIA should change that rule, but if a driver takes advantage of it, it is within the rules, yes?
Kevin[/QUOTE]
Yes they do Kevin, and i am not criticising MS for using the rule, i am saying that rule has to be changed as its clearly being used in a way its not designed to be, and is endangering MS and the marshalls in that process.
| boxered | 03-06-2005 06:47 PM |
Bleh...there's no way MS should've gotten pushed out.. that's like a get-out-of-jail-free card. I really don't think this race had meaning in the long run. With all the changes it was more of a feeler.
| gtguy | 03-06-2005 10:59 PM |
[QUOTE=johnfelstead]Yes they do Kevin, and i am not criticising MS for using the rule, i am saying that rule has to be changed as its clearly being used in a way its not designed to be, and is endangering MS and the marshalls in that process.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I still remember seeing the one marshal, years ago, get submarined by an off-line car, luckily suffering a broken ankle. Just wish I could remember the race.
Kevin
Agreed. I still remember seeing the one marshal, years ago, get submarined by an off-line car, luckily suffering a broken ankle. Just wish I could remember the race.
Kevin
| artkevin | 03-07-2005 12:05 AM |
I like the little fight going on in here between John and GT. I side with GT on this one. One pass this is worth mention is DC's on Webber. That was simply awsome. I thought there was zero chance of him making that corner. The race was good to show that there are other drivers out there with pace. With the sake up of the grid you could tell that some people were willing their cars to stay in the place they were blessed with (Jaquces and Trulli). The cars didn't have the speed but the drivers were still pushing as hard as they could. Usually that happens but you don't see it on TV.
KP
KP
| johnfelstead | 03-07-2005 07:27 AM |
[QUOTE=gtguy]Agreed. I still remember seeing the one marshal, years ago, get submarined by an off-line car, luckily suffering a broken ankle. Just wish I could remember the race.
Kevin[/QUOTE]
Suzuka, Martin Brundle took out a marshall at 130R exit. He was very lucky not to hit one of those caterpillar recovery mini crane things they use in Japan.
Kevin[/QUOTE]
Suzuka, Martin Brundle took out a marshall at 130R exit. He was very lucky not to hit one of those caterpillar recovery mini crane things they use in Japan.
| artkevin | 03-07-2005 09:32 AM |
[QUOTE=johnfelstead]Suzuka, Martin Brundle took out a marshall at 130R exit. He was very lucky not to hit one of those caterpillar recovery mini crane things they use in Japan.[/QUOTE]
It also happened in the 60's I think. The movie The Quick and the Dead shows some absolutely horrible footage of a marshal in Imola running to help a driver and getting hit by a car at full bore.
KP
It also happened in the 60's I think. The movie The Quick and the Dead shows some absolutely horrible footage of a marshal in Imola running to help a driver and getting hit by a car at full bore.
KP
| Ferg | 03-07-2005 09:54 AM |
Don't forget about poor old Tom Pryce at Kyalami in 1977. He got hit in the head with a marshall's fire extinguisher at 170mph... after the marshall had been already been hit and killed by Ritchie Ginther's car.
Here's a decent read from Renault's head of engineering Pat Symonds regarding the upcoming season.
[QUOTE]
[font=Times New Roman][size=5][b]Analysis: F1 Looks Forward to Tough Title Fight[/b][/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman][size=3][b]Monday March 7th, 2005[/b] [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3][i]By Alan Baldwin[/i] [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Even if Renault's Giancarlo Fisichella made it look easy in Australia at the weekend, Formula One is bracing for a real battle ahead. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"You've got to be careful looking at one race and saying, right that's how the season will go," said Renault's head of engineering Pat Symonds after the French team's resounding victory in Melbourne. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"But there are signs, not just this from race but the testing we've been doing over the winter as well, that this is going to be one of the closest seasons for a while. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"I think that ourselves and McLaren are very, very close. Ferrari are there. Williams and BAR won't be far behind for long," he added. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"Red Bull had a great race and maybe they are joining in." [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]With champions Ferrari leaving their new car at home, possibly until the fifth round in Spain in May, Renault and McLaren were heavily tipped to set the pace in the season-opener. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]In the end, the fickle Melbourne weather proved more decisive than anything. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Fisichella, officially making his debut for a team he knows well since he raced for them under the Benetton name, was favoured by heavy rain falling immediately after his Saturday qualifying lap. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]That left rivals, including both McLaren drivers and Ferrari's seven times World Champion Michael Schumacher, with an insurmountable task and Formula One fans savouring a deep draught of fresh hope for the future. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b]Schumacher Nightmare[/b] [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Schumacher qualified at the back of the grid, and was shunted out during the race, while McLaren's Kimi Raikkonen started from the pitlane. The real measure of who was hot and who was not lay elsewhere. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Brazilian Rubens Barrichello left no doubt that Ferrari, even with their old car, were quick when he went from a midfield position to second place. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"They are going to be a serious challenge right through the year," said Symonds. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"At the last Barcelona test, for example, on the Thursday we were doing a race distance with Ferrari and they were right up there. It might be last year's car but it was a pretty good car last year. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"They were quick today and one assumes their new car will be quicker and better so they are going to be really hard to beat. But at the same time we are constantly developing our car. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"We've got a whole new floor in Malaysia. It's only the second race but we've already got quite a big aero update. You just keep pushing." [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]McLaren showed their pace with Raikkonen storming through to take a point and Juan Pablo Montoya sixth. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"The result may not show this but we have the pace to challenge for victories," said Raikkonen. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"It was circumstances, it wasn't a straightforward race," Symonds agreed. "I'm sure they (McLaren) are as quick as us. I think on some circuits they will be quicker than us, at others we will be a bit quicker than them. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"What I do know is that they are quick and they just had a disastrous weekend. It could just as easily have been the other way round with them first and third. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"It's going to be a good, tough fight right through the year, I'm sure." [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Malaysia, the next round on March 20, will throw more light on where the championship is heading with strategy likely to play a bigger part than on Sunday. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]That race is the hottest of the year, a big test for reliability now that engines must last for two successive races. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]BAR, overall runners-up last year, could come back into the fray after opting to retire their cars in Australia to enable a penalty-free engine change. Briton Jenson Button scored the first podium of his career there last year for BAR.[/QUOTE][/size][/font]
Here's a decent read from Renault's head of engineering Pat Symonds regarding the upcoming season.
[QUOTE]
[font=Times New Roman][size=5][b]Analysis: F1 Looks Forward to Tough Title Fight[/b][/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman][size=3][b]Monday March 7th, 2005[/b] [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3][i]By Alan Baldwin[/i] [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Even if Renault's Giancarlo Fisichella made it look easy in Australia at the weekend, Formula One is bracing for a real battle ahead. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"You've got to be careful looking at one race and saying, right that's how the season will go," said Renault's head of engineering Pat Symonds after the French team's resounding victory in Melbourne. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"But there are signs, not just this from race but the testing we've been doing over the winter as well, that this is going to be one of the closest seasons for a while. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"I think that ourselves and McLaren are very, very close. Ferrari are there. Williams and BAR won't be far behind for long," he added. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"Red Bull had a great race and maybe they are joining in." [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]With champions Ferrari leaving their new car at home, possibly until the fifth round in Spain in May, Renault and McLaren were heavily tipped to set the pace in the season-opener. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]In the end, the fickle Melbourne weather proved more decisive than anything. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Fisichella, officially making his debut for a team he knows well since he raced for them under the Benetton name, was favoured by heavy rain falling immediately after his Saturday qualifying lap. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]That left rivals, including both McLaren drivers and Ferrari's seven times World Champion Michael Schumacher, with an insurmountable task and Formula One fans savouring a deep draught of fresh hope for the future. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3][b]Schumacher Nightmare[/b] [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Schumacher qualified at the back of the grid, and was shunted out during the race, while McLaren's Kimi Raikkonen started from the pitlane. The real measure of who was hot and who was not lay elsewhere. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Brazilian Rubens Barrichello left no doubt that Ferrari, even with their old car, were quick when he went from a midfield position to second place. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"They are going to be a serious challenge right through the year," said Symonds. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"At the last Barcelona test, for example, on the Thursday we were doing a race distance with Ferrari and they were right up there. It might be last year's car but it was a pretty good car last year. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"They were quick today and one assumes their new car will be quicker and better so they are going to be really hard to beat. But at the same time we are constantly developing our car. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"We've got a whole new floor in Malaysia. It's only the second race but we've already got quite a big aero update. You just keep pushing." [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]McLaren showed their pace with Raikkonen storming through to take a point and Juan Pablo Montoya sixth. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"The result may not show this but we have the pace to challenge for victories," said Raikkonen. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"It was circumstances, it wasn't a straightforward race," Symonds agreed. "I'm sure they (McLaren) are as quick as us. I think on some circuits they will be quicker than us, at others we will be a bit quicker than them. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"What I do know is that they are quick and they just had a disastrous weekend. It could just as easily have been the other way round with them first and third. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]"It's going to be a good, tough fight right through the year, I'm sure." [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Malaysia, the next round on March 20, will throw more light on where the championship is heading with strategy likely to play a bigger part than on Sunday. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]That race is the hottest of the year, a big test for reliability now that engines must last for two successive races. [/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]BAR, overall runners-up last year, could come back into the fray after opting to retire their cars in Australia to enable a penalty-free engine change. Briton Jenson Button scored the first podium of his career there last year for BAR.[/QUOTE][/size][/font]
| KoneKiller | 03-07-2005 10:08 AM |
I lost a bit of respect for Schuey.... that was a very amateur move. I examined it frame by frame on my DVR. He should be penalized.
| samboard | 03-07-2005 11:08 AM |
[QUOTE=KoneKiller]I lost a bit of respect for Schuey.... that was a very amateur move. I examined it frame by frame on my DVR. He should be penalized.[/QUOTE]
he was at fault, but everyone makes at least 10 ridiculous moves in racing in their lifetime. that might have been #5 :)
sam
he was at fault, but everyone makes at least 10 ridiculous moves in racing in their lifetime. that might have been #5 :)
sam
| TimStevens | 03-07-2005 11:15 AM |
Maybe, but the moves against Hill and Villeneuve in the 90's count for at least 2-3 each :)
| samboard | 03-07-2005 11:24 AM |
the word "ridiculous" should cover those as one move each, and those moves were included in the five. I've done some ridiculous blocks which i regret in hindsight. two that i can think of immediately. luckily, no one was injured and no equipment damaged.
sam
sam
| ForceFed4 | 03-07-2005 11:47 AM |
I honestly don't understand all the Schumi hate. He was the lead car going into that corner, even if Heidfeld was trying a passing manuever. Why is a car in the lead obligated in any way to deviate from his already commited line to take an obviously poorer line through the corner? The way I saw it was Schumi held his intended line all throughout that corner entrance. It was Heidfeld who tried to dive in under and blasted right into MS's side in a doomed pass attempt when there was no opening whatsoever. MS should not be expected to create openings to allow others to pass him, that's asanine, and not reasonably expected from any other driver on the grid.
Yet to 80% of the people watching this is Schumi's fault? ... right...
I know people don't like him, but jeez... I didn't even think that one was questionable.
If there was anything sketchy it's his "retirement" a few laps later. Of course, that's what the FIA gets for making arbitrary engine rules I guess, serves them right IMO.
Yet to 80% of the people watching this is Schumi's fault? ... right...
I know people don't like him, but jeez... I didn't even think that one was questionable.
If there was anything sketchy it's his "retirement" a few laps later. Of course, that's what the FIA gets for making arbitrary engine rules I guess, serves them right IMO.
| TimStevens | 03-07-2005 11:54 AM |
Watch the replay again. Heidfeld is passing on the inside, and MS jerks the car to the right. Heidfeld goes to the grass to avoid making contact, then of course can't stop because he's on the grass and ultimately hits MS in the corner.
The first time I saw it I thought Heidfeld was being too ambitious, but he was clearly faster and had the corner and it was MS's jink to the right that caused the accident.
And we're not haters, and we're certainly not the only ones thinking this:
[url]http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_sports/view/136133/1/.html[/url]
The first time I saw it I thought Heidfeld was being too ambitious, but he was clearly faster and had the corner and it was MS's jink to the right that caused the accident.
And we're not haters, and we're certainly not the only ones thinking this:
[url]http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_sports/view/136133/1/.html[/url]
| BriDrive | 03-07-2005 12:19 PM |
I think Heidfeld's response to the incident pretty much depicts what happened.
Bottom line...who cares........
Its a mean, competitive, hyper ego sport and survival of the fittest in a game with, at best, enormous gray area where rules might exist. F1 has been INCONSISTENT in applying consequences to any rules, especially driver / line / incident rules...always.
Everyone state their opinion and move on.
Everytime somebody pulls a stunt, generally in the heat of battle, where things are happening at fractions of seconds and a racing incident occurs...we have the world's armchair quarterbacks throwing out a bunch of accusations as if they were the aggrieved party.
As a footnote, for every "incident" we see on the tele, there are a dozen more that we don't see at each race, and these perceived "slights" are racking up in the driver's brains....the classic, "Ok buddy...you want to play eh!...you are going to be called out soon for that one...best regards, Michael" or JPM or KR or JV or JB etc...some more vindictively than others.........
I, for one, thought the GP was a very interesting one on many levels. The qualifying format is definitely going to throw some curves all year long. I like the unpredictability of the format. Comparing fast laps of all the drivers was interesting. The deck shuffled out quite unpredictably and I'm certain topteam STRATEGY will play a very big role this year in who comes out where. Can't blame teams for pulling in cars before checker...blame/shame F1/FIA if they don't close hole.
BriDrive
Bottom line...who cares........
Its a mean, competitive, hyper ego sport and survival of the fittest in a game with, at best, enormous gray area where rules might exist. F1 has been INCONSISTENT in applying consequences to any rules, especially driver / line / incident rules...always.
Everyone state their opinion and move on.
Everytime somebody pulls a stunt, generally in the heat of battle, where things are happening at fractions of seconds and a racing incident occurs...we have the world's armchair quarterbacks throwing out a bunch of accusations as if they were the aggrieved party.
As a footnote, for every "incident" we see on the tele, there are a dozen more that we don't see at each race, and these perceived "slights" are racking up in the driver's brains....the classic, "Ok buddy...you want to play eh!...you are going to be called out soon for that one...best regards, Michael" or JPM or KR or JV or JB etc...some more vindictively than others.........
I, for one, thought the GP was a very interesting one on many levels. The qualifying format is definitely going to throw some curves all year long. I like the unpredictability of the format. Comparing fast laps of all the drivers was interesting. The deck shuffled out quite unpredictably and I'm certain topteam STRATEGY will play a very big role this year in who comes out where. Can't blame teams for pulling in cars before checker...blame/shame F1/FIA if they don't close hole.
BriDrive
| ForceFed4 | 03-07-2005 12:20 PM |
Well, I don't have Tivo, so I only saw the live footage; perhaps I was fooled, but my first impression watching it was "WTH is Heidfeld doi..." <BAM>
MS HAS pulled off deliberate collisions before, the accident this weekend really didn't look like one of those to me. I guess if you do that too many times though, people stop giving you the benefit of the doubt...
MS HAS pulled off deliberate collisions before, the accident this weekend really didn't look like one of those to me. I guess if you do that too many times though, people stop giving you the benefit of the doubt...
| artkevin | 03-07-2005 12:47 PM |
Im not a Shucey hater but I do think the move was a bad one. If anyone else in the feild and tried it the media would be all over it (JPM, Sato even Ralph) as being amatuer. Nick had the line,Micheal chopped him. Its not the first time but its also not the end of the world. If I was Nick or Williams I'd be pissed, since I'n not either I don't really car, racing is racing.
| Bonzo | 03-07-2005 01:24 PM |
As the effwon world turns:p
I am not a hater. I enjoy watching an obviously talented man manipulate a machine to it's fullest.
MS went way offline to block. As in more than a cars width offline. He made a decision in the heat of battle. imho this was not a very prudent move. His decision took 2 cars out of the event. MS had also just exited the pits with now cold tires. If someone would have did that to him (on cold tires), you would never hear the end of it.
Less than 2 weeks away before episode 2 :banana:
I am not a hater. I enjoy watching an obviously talented man manipulate a machine to it's fullest.
MS went way offline to block. As in more than a cars width offline. He made a decision in the heat of battle. imho this was not a very prudent move. His decision took 2 cars out of the event. MS had also just exited the pits with now cold tires. If someone would have did that to him (on cold tires), you would never hear the end of it.
Less than 2 weeks away before episode 2 :banana:
| pio!pio! | 03-07-2005 01:40 PM |
I also was left witha "what happened to Trulli?" feeling..he was P2..after the first round of pit stops he is P4 or P5 and they never explained why it happened...no coverage either..left me very confused
| KoneKiller | 03-07-2005 01:53 PM |
[QUOTE=ForceFed4]Well, I don't have Tivo, so I only saw the live footage; perhaps I was fooled, but my first impression watching it was "WTH is Heidfeld doi..." <BAM>
MS HAS pulled off deliberate collisions before, the accident this weekend really didn't look like one of those to me. I guess if you do that too many times though, people stop giving you the benefit of the doubt...[/QUOTE]
In the live action, I felt the same way you did -- that Heidfeld had made a bonzai move and took Schuey out. When I backed it up to let my wife see, it was clear that MS had moved two car widths inside the natural line just as NH came up on him. I still wasn't sure until I saw other cars taking the correct line later in the race.
When you replay it, it is brutally clear that NH got a much better run off the previous corner and was going to shoot by MS just as they entered the braking zone. If MS hadn't done what he did, we would have called it a brilliant and sportsmanlike pass.
Oh.... and I'm a huge MS fan.
MS HAS pulled off deliberate collisions before, the accident this weekend really didn't look like one of those to me. I guess if you do that too many times though, people stop giving you the benefit of the doubt...[/QUOTE]
In the live action, I felt the same way you did -- that Heidfeld had made a bonzai move and took Schuey out. When I backed it up to let my wife see, it was clear that MS had moved two car widths inside the natural line just as NH came up on him. I still wasn't sure until I saw other cars taking the correct line later in the race.
When you replay it, it is brutally clear that NH got a much better run off the previous corner and was going to shoot by MS just as they entered the braking zone. If MS hadn't done what he did, we would have called it a brilliant and sportsmanlike pass.
Oh.... and I'm a huge MS fan.
| samboard | 03-07-2005 01:58 PM |
^^^^^
perfect analogy, also a huge MS fan, but he pulled a bonehead move.
now, let's all look forward to episode 2 :banana:
sam
perfect analogy, also a huge MS fan, but he pulled a bonehead move.
now, let's all look forward to episode 2 :banana:
sam
| ForceFed4 | 03-07-2005 02:34 PM |
[QUOTE=KoneKiller]In the live action, I felt the same way you did -- that Heidfeld had made a bonzai move and took Schuey out. When I backed it up to let my wife see, it was clear that MS had moved two car widths inside the natural line just as NH came up on him. [/QUOTE]
Well, I guess the live footage was a bit misleading as it was broadcast. It did look like a bonzai move from the portion that I saw, but if Heidfeld really did set Schumi up coming out of the previous corner than it is a shame to see it ending up like it did.
Everything surrounding MS is disproportionate; the praise, the hate, the coverage (even when he DNF from a middling position). It's really a sad state of affairs; he certainly has an amazing amount of talent, but sometimes I feel like F1 would be a better series without him attracting (distracting?) so much of the attention...
Well, I guess the live footage was a bit misleading as it was broadcast. It did look like a bonzai move from the portion that I saw, but if Heidfeld really did set Schumi up coming out of the previous corner than it is a shame to see it ending up like it did.
Everything surrounding MS is disproportionate; the praise, the hate, the coverage (even when he DNF from a middling position). It's really a sad state of affairs; he certainly has an amazing amount of talent, but sometimes I feel like F1 would be a better series without him attracting (distracting?) so much of the attention...
| artkevin | 03-07-2005 02:53 PM |
[QUOTE=pio!pio!]I also was left witha "what happened to Trulli?" feeling..he was P2..after the first round of pit stops he is P4 or P5 and they never explained why it happened...no coverage either..left me very confused[/QUOTE]
Felt the same way about Trulli. I think the Yota just didn't have the pace. Everytime a round of pit stops happened he just dropped a couple of spots and the cameras never picked him up. I like him but that car is a dog.
Felt the same way about Trulli. I think the Yota just didn't have the pace. Everytime a round of pit stops happened he just dropped a couple of spots and the cameras never picked him up. I like him but that car is a dog.
| PaulC | 03-07-2005 02:55 PM |
Trulli had an issue with one of his rear tires, according to a race report I saw.
I was somewhat annoyed that for almost the entire first stint they focused on Alonso trying to get around JV. I guess they figured since Alonso was right up on him that a pass was imminent but I would have liked to see the front runners more.
I was somewhat annoyed that for almost the entire first stint they focused on Alonso trying to get around JV. I guess they figured since Alonso was right up on him that a pass was imminent but I would have liked to see the front runners more.
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