| z3coupe | 01-14-2006 08:36 PM |
Possible rubbing problem with the Strano FSB
�
�
Today I had my car at the local Sube dealer. While up on the rack, we discovered that one of the bolts for the power steering bracket on the left side was rubbing up against the Strano FSB! As I have had this one for a few weeks now, and the scratch looked clean, then this must have just happened. Perhaps because the car was on a hoist with the wheels dangling and not under tension, the bar may be moving enough to rub up against the bolt? I sure HOPE that is all it is, because if it IS constantly rubbing up against that bolt, either the bolt head might break off or wear enough you could never get it off again with a socket, or the bolt maybe is harder than the bar metal, and might wear a hole into the bar and weaken it. This is a wee bit disturbing.
I called Max, and he looked under his car, and seen it starting to happen to his as well. He will try to take a pic of this and post it.
I called Max, and he looked under his car, and seen it starting to happen to his as well. He will try to take a pic of this and post it.
| BlkWRXWag | 01-14-2006 08:40 PM |
Here's the picture. I don't know if it possible to loosen the sway bar mounts and move the whole bar slightly forward - there doesn't seem much play there.
[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/blkwrxwag/P1000422.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/blkwrxwag/P1000422.jpg[/IMG]
| BlkWRXWag | 01-14-2006 08:48 PM |
This picture was taken with the suspension under load, not on a lift.
| gc822 | 01-14-2006 11:25 PM |
the pic is kind of confusing....
... that bolt that is resting on that piece of metal..... is that your sway bar?
also what size FSB are you running?
this post probably should be in the brakes, steering, and suspension forum BTW ;)
... that bolt that is resting on that piece of metal..... is that your sway bar?
also what size FSB are you running?
this post probably should be in the brakes, steering, and suspension forum BTW ;)
| BlkWRXWag | 01-14-2006 11:26 PM |
Yes, it is the sway bar. It's a Strano bar which is pretty much motorsports specific, hence this forum.
| z3coupe | 01-14-2006 11:40 PM |
[QUOTE]this post probably should be in the brakes, steering, and suspension forum BTW [/QUOTE]In a way, that is true. But this is in response to the post about AS Front Swaybar that got Max and I very interested in the Strano bar. And the guys most involved with making this bar happen, are in this forum. And this bar is specifically for those of us in Solo II, not just street guys. So hope we can keep this in motorsports, for others may need to know this as well - and hope we can get an answer back from those we need to hear from.
And yes, that is the FSB, 32mm in size. This pic is looking at it from the driver's side towards the passenger side. There is a 2 bolt bracket that connects to the steering gear, and the inboard bolt is rubbing REAL bad in my bar, even gouging it a bit. This COULD be a safety issue that may need action taken fast.
And yes, that is the FSB, 32mm in size. This pic is looking at it from the driver's side towards the passenger side. There is a 2 bolt bracket that connects to the steering gear, and the inboard bolt is rubbing REAL bad in my bar, even gouging it a bit. This COULD be a safety issue that may need action taken fast.
| gc822 | 01-15-2006 12:23 AM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]In a way, that is true. But this is in response to the post about AS Front Swaybar that got Max and I very interested in the Strano bar. And the guys most involved with making this bar happen, are in this forum. And this bar is specifically for those of us in Solo II, not just street guys. So hope we can keep this in motorsports, for others may need to know this as well - and hope we can get an answer back from those we need to hear from.
And yes, that is the FSB, 32mm in size. This pic is looking at it from the driver's side towards the passenger side. There is a 2 bolt bracket that connects to the steering gear, and the inboard bolt is rubbing REAL bad in my bar, even gouging it a bit. This COULD be a safety issue that may need action taken fast.[/QUOTE]
32mm :huh:
Holy carp!!!! that is friggin huge!!
my bad thank you for clarifying
since the car was on a lift, I really don't know what to tell you as far as if it will only hit the bar while hoisted
try putting some slow curing substance on the bar at your next Auto X
after your run see if the substance is on those bolts after your most recent run
that way you'll be able to tell if your bar is hitting those bolts under full load
good luck
-Mac
And yes, that is the FSB, 32mm in size. This pic is looking at it from the driver's side towards the passenger side. There is a 2 bolt bracket that connects to the steering gear, and the inboard bolt is rubbing REAL bad in my bar, even gouging it a bit. This COULD be a safety issue that may need action taken fast.[/QUOTE]
32mm :huh:
Holy carp!!!! that is friggin huge!!
my bad thank you for clarifying
since the car was on a lift, I really don't know what to tell you as far as if it will only hit the bar while hoisted
try putting some slow curing substance on the bar at your next Auto X
after your run see if the substance is on those bolts after your most recent run
that way you'll be able to tell if your bar is hitting those bolts under full load
good luck
-Mac
| z3coupe | 01-15-2006 12:36 AM |
My car was up on a hoist earlier today, and the Sube mechanic was the one who saw it and pointed it out to me. My wheels were in the air, drooping. But I did not have a cam with me, so no pics of that. Max's pic is with his car up on ramps, so there is load on the wheels - yet you STILL can see how close that bolt is, even then. I hope some of the guys we need to see this replies to us soon!
| BlkWRXWag | 01-15-2006 12:36 AM |
The picture IS taken under load.
| gc822 | 01-15-2006 12:59 AM |
get a bolt with a shorter head maybe??
| wm07 | 01-15-2006 01:15 AM |
I will check mine out tomorrow if weather is permitted. I don't remember seeing something that close to the bar, but mine is an 04, so it may be different.
| D_REX | 01-15-2006 01:31 AM |
[QUOTE=gc822]get a bolt with a shorter head maybe??[/QUOTE]
This is a pretty good idea, a socket head cap screw with a washer would probably solve the problem; If not a button head would.
This is a pretty good idea, a socket head cap screw with a washer would probably solve the problem; If not a button head would.
| silver arrow | 01-15-2006 01:47 AM |
I'll look at mine too.
| awesome2.5rs | 01-15-2006 01:50 AM |
yikes, this is a little scary! I just ordered mine last week... keep us posted about this ! Can you get us better pictures cause im still a little unsure where this is....
edit: this is andrewss (has 05 STi) posting accidently as awesome2.5rs
edit: this is andrewss (has 05 STi) posting accidently as awesome2.5rs
| makofoto | 01-15-2006 03:13 AM |
Rocky, Max ... let us know how the bar worked for you at the season opener.
Luckily Karl is only doing a one off in STU !
Luckily Karl is only doing a one off in STU !
| Storm | 01-15-2006 09:57 AM |
I have to ask a question. Just how big of a bar should we be able to fit before we start hitting things? Looking at the 32mm bar...I'd say you need to start making room for it by using 1/2 height head fasteners or possibly a different position for the bar itself.
I would hate to see this become an inflated issue degrading Stranoparts or their customer support. If a bar this large requires custom fasteners for parts in close proximity, lets make that the focal point.
This is really no different that mounting wider wheels and tires and noticing that now the fenders need rolled.
Jay Storm
I would hate to see this become an inflated issue degrading Stranoparts or their customer support. If a bar this large requires custom fasteners for parts in close proximity, lets make that the focal point.
This is really no different that mounting wider wheels and tires and noticing that now the fenders need rolled.
Jay Storm
| thrdeye | 01-15-2006 11:18 AM |
I don't have this bar, but Crash477 seems to have gotten his on an 02 without any issues. You guys may want to hit him up in a pm or something.
| BlkWRXWag | 01-15-2006 11:25 AM |
We're not here to bash the bar or Stranoparts - we're just curious to see if other STI owners have the same issue (if it is even an issue), and what the best remedy is. I like the bar and want to make it work.
| -OneWay- | 01-15-2006 12:59 PM |
The same bolt rubs on my car with the Strano bar installed.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranohit.jpg[/IMG]
as a side note this is how I installed the Endlinks
Picture with the suspension hanging and the car on a lift.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
Picture of the endlinks with the car on the ground.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranoontheground.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranog.jpg[/IMG]
The bolt going thru the bushings is not at an angle with the car on the ground
Considering the picture included in the instructions shows the bar installed with the angle bracket that holds the endlinks installed backwards and every installation of this bar I have seen has been different.
This bar seems really noisey also
P.S.
When I weighed the Strano bar and all the installation hardware it weighed 11.5 lbs
The same as the whiteline FSB is listed at
edit: I forgot the Whiteline does NOT include endlinks.
It was pointed out later on in this thread
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranohit.jpg[/IMG]
as a side note this is how I installed the Endlinks
Picture with the suspension hanging and the car on a lift.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
Picture of the endlinks with the car on the ground.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranoontheground.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranog.jpg[/IMG]
The bolt going thru the bushings is not at an angle with the car on the ground
Considering the picture included in the instructions shows the bar installed with the angle bracket that holds the endlinks installed backwards and every installation of this bar I have seen has been different.
This bar seems really noisey also
P.S.
When I weighed the Strano bar and all the installation hardware it weighed 11.5 lbs
The same as the whiteline FSB is listed at
edit: I forgot the Whiteline does NOT include endlinks.
It was pointed out later on in this thread
| AUTOwrXER | 01-15-2006 07:31 PM |
Perhaps the width of the swaybar mounts is slightly less than earlier designs. You could probably add a washer under the mounting brackets and clear the bolt. Obviously a less intrusive steering rack bolt would also solve the problem.
In any event, that small amount of contact is not nearly enough to hinder the operation of the bar based on the forces the suspension is under. I think the only thing at risk is the finish on the swaybar.
In any event, that small amount of contact is not nearly enough to hinder the operation of the bar based on the forces the suspension is under. I think the only thing at risk is the finish on the swaybar.
| D_REX | 01-15-2006 08:04 PM |
If this actually grooves the swaybar it could lead to early failure at that point. Stresses on the outside of a hollow bar are generally pretty high. If it were me I would just install a different fastener, seems like a no - brainer.
| wm07 | 01-15-2006 08:20 PM |
It looks fine for us '04s.
[IMG]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/237/dsc001978os.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/237/dsc001978os.jpg[/IMG]
| Crash477 | 01-16-2006 01:47 AM |
[QUOTE=thrdeye]I don't have this bar, but Crash477 seems to have gotten his on an 02 without any issues. You guys may want to hit him up in a pm or something.[/QUOTE]
No issues for me, just some customizing of the mounting brackets. I havent checked yet for the rubbing issue discussed in this thread, but I will when I get the chance. but it does rub somwhere, I can hear it.
No issues for me, just some customizing of the mounting brackets. I havent checked yet for the rubbing issue discussed in this thread, but I will when I get the chance. but it does rub somwhere, I can hear it.
| z3coupe | 01-16-2006 05:15 AM |
First off, I want it known that I am NOT trashing the Strano bar! In the AutoX today, it worked GREAT, and the car felt better than it ever did, and in all types of turns or slaloms. And in conjunction with the softer sprung KW V3's, it was just about perfect! Now I need to keep with the same setup for awhile and learn to trust it, and thus drive it better.
So in essence, I WANT this to work, just work right. Now for the ulgy:
[QUOTE]It looks fine for us '04s.[/QUOTE] Of course it would, the 05/06 has different parts in the steering than yours. We have one side that is a solid bolt on, your rack has bushings at both ends. And ours is rubbing on the side with the solid bolt on bracket.
[QUOTE]If this actually grooves the swaybar it could lead to early failure at that point. Stresses on the outside of a hollow bar are generally pretty high.[/QUOTE]That is my point - if it gouges into the bar (and mine was starting too when the tech at the Sube dealer pointed it out to me - but the wheels were in the air and drooping if that might be a partial cause), it could eventually weaken the wall of the hollow bar, and perhaps eventually split, and then BECAUSE of the severe stress this bar has (as was said when someone wanted to drill the mounting brackets to add a zerk fitting), break in half at the wrong time - under severe load while in a turn = OUCH. Or, on the other hand, if the bar is rubbing, or even BANGING on that bolt, what if it shears the head off (if the bar is made of stronger metal???). Would also cause bigger problem while driving.[QUOTE]If it were me I would just install a different fastener, seems like a no - brainer.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Obviously a less intrusive steering rack bolt would also solve the problem.
[/QUOTE]If you mean as in using a smaller head bolt, that could help. But then, would that weaken the strength of the bolt? This IS part of the steering rack. Don't want to skimp on that at all. That would be a major SAFETY issue. And I would imagine SoA used a certain size bolt with a specific tensile strength for a reason in that spot.[QUOTE]You could probably add a washer under the mounting brackets and clear the bolt. [/QUOTE]Again, if drilling to add a zerk would weaken the bracket, would raising the bracket with a washer also cause a weakening of the bracket? It would no longer be solid flat against the metal frame, but raised up a bit in a smaller area (meaning a greater pound per sq in pressure in a smaller area).
So in essence, I WANT this to work, just work right. Now for the ulgy:
[QUOTE]It looks fine for us '04s.[/QUOTE] Of course it would, the 05/06 has different parts in the steering than yours. We have one side that is a solid bolt on, your rack has bushings at both ends. And ours is rubbing on the side with the solid bolt on bracket.
[QUOTE]If this actually grooves the swaybar it could lead to early failure at that point. Stresses on the outside of a hollow bar are generally pretty high.[/QUOTE]That is my point - if it gouges into the bar (and mine was starting too when the tech at the Sube dealer pointed it out to me - but the wheels were in the air and drooping if that might be a partial cause), it could eventually weaken the wall of the hollow bar, and perhaps eventually split, and then BECAUSE of the severe stress this bar has (as was said when someone wanted to drill the mounting brackets to add a zerk fitting), break in half at the wrong time - under severe load while in a turn = OUCH. Or, on the other hand, if the bar is rubbing, or even BANGING on that bolt, what if it shears the head off (if the bar is made of stronger metal???). Would also cause bigger problem while driving.[QUOTE]If it were me I would just install a different fastener, seems like a no - brainer.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Obviously a less intrusive steering rack bolt would also solve the problem.
[/QUOTE]If you mean as in using a smaller head bolt, that could help. But then, would that weaken the strength of the bolt? This IS part of the steering rack. Don't want to skimp on that at all. That would be a major SAFETY issue. And I would imagine SoA used a certain size bolt with a specific tensile strength for a reason in that spot.[QUOTE]You could probably add a washer under the mounting brackets and clear the bolt. [/QUOTE]Again, if drilling to add a zerk would weaken the bracket, would raising the bracket with a washer also cause a weakening of the bracket? It would no longer be solid flat against the metal frame, but raised up a bit in a smaller area (meaning a greater pound per sq in pressure in a smaller area).
| VpointVick | 01-16-2006 06:16 AM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]If you mean as in using a smaller head bolt, that could help. But then, would that weaken the strength of the bolt? This IS part of the steering rack. Don't want to skimp on that at all. That would be a major SAFETY issue. And I would imagine SoA used a certain size bolt with a specific tensile strength for a reason in that spot.[/QUOTE]
Replace it with a socket head cap screw of the same size (allen bolt). The head will be smaller, and the it will be a stronger bolt than the that is there.
Socket head cap screws are rated higher in tensile strength than grade 8.
Replace it with a socket head cap screw of the same size (allen bolt). The head will be smaller, and the it will be a stronger bolt than the that is there.
Socket head cap screws are rated higher in tensile strength than grade 8.
| rankink | 01-16-2006 08:16 AM |
OK, I have the strano bar on my 05 STi. The center of the bar slightly, and I mean ever so slightly hits that same steering rack bolt. All I did was take a dremel and grind down the bolt just a little bit to clear the bar. The bolt is still easily removed witha socket after do this as well. After a month there is no significant wear on the bar from that bolt after grinding it down. I did put grease there as well just in case.
| AUTOwrXER | 01-16-2006 01:59 PM |
[QUOTE=rankink]OK, I have the strano bar on my 05 STi. The center of the bar slightly, and I mean ever so slightly hits that same steering rack bolt. All I did was take a dremel and grind down the bolt just a little bit to clear the bar. The bolt is still easily removed witha socket after do this as well. After a month there is no significant wear on the bar from that bolt after grinding it down. I did put grease there as well just in case.[/QUOTE]
I suppose that technically that would not be legal in AS or BSP, but WTH. If you can sort it out with the mounting bracket then it would be legal. Could it be as simple as turning the steering rack bolt enough so that a flat side is facing the bar?
I suppose that technically that would not be legal in AS or BSP, but WTH. If you can sort it out with the mounting bracket then it would be legal. Could it be as simple as turning the steering rack bolt enough so that a flat side is facing the bar?
| BlkWRXWag | 01-16-2006 02:06 PM |
My bolt has the flat side facing the bar which may be why I see less marks on my bar than z3coupe. Still seems to touch though. It would be cool to mount a camera under there while cornering to see what is happening.
| WRX_orlando | 01-16-2006 02:42 PM |
you may want to space the bar mounts from the chassis a little with alignment shims...should be no problem.
| AUTOwrXER | 01-16-2006 05:33 PM |
[QUOTE=WRX_orlando]you may want to space the bar mounts from the chassis a little with alignment shims...should be no problem.[/QUOTE]
I think we're suggesting the same thing, but I said to try a washer. I don't think it will cause a problem with the strength of the mount.
I think we're suggesting the same thing, but I said to try a washer. I don't think it will cause a problem with the strength of the mount.
| BlkWRXWag | 01-16-2006 06:10 PM |
Wouldn't adding shims/washers between the mounts and the frame effectively make the bar loose within the mount?
| PossumK | 01-16-2006 07:34 PM |
[QUOTE=BlkWRXWag]Wouldn't adding shims/washers between the mounts and the frame effectively make the bar loose within the mount?[/QUOTE]
You can make/bend a shim that contours the original surface that the mount and bushing contact.
You can make/bend a shim that contours the original surface that the mount and bushing contact.
| AUTOwrXER | 01-16-2006 09:12 PM |
[QUOTE=BlkWRXWag]Wouldn't adding shims/washers between the mounts and the frame effectively make the bar loose within the mount?[/QUOTE]
You're only spacing it 1/16", so no.
You're only spacing it 1/16", so no.
| z3coupe | 01-16-2006 11:41 PM |
Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail? And even ordered it specifically for an 05 STi? If it needs modifications like this, why weren't the parts needed in the box? Or instructions on how to make it fit in the (one page poor photocopy) instruction sheet? Let me make this clear - I am NOT bashing this bar!!!!! But I think it went out the door a wee bit premature. I don't mind being a beta tester, as long as I am knowingly signing up to be one.
| White 2.5rs | 01-16-2006 11:53 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]Replace it with a socket head cap screw of the same size (allen bolt). The head will be smaller, and the it will be a stronger bolt than the that is there.
Socket head cap screws are rated higher in tensile strength than grade 8.[/QUOTE]
good idea, but arent grade 8 fasteners named that because of the rating? not because of what they are
we had grade 5 and grade 8 fasteners at the shop i work at
Socket head cap screws are rated higher in tensile strength than grade 8.[/QUOTE]
good idea, but arent grade 8 fasteners named that because of the rating? not because of what they are
we had grade 5 and grade 8 fasteners at the shop i work at
| Storm | 01-17-2006 01:11 AM |
I suppose you've asked this question directly to the people at Stranoparts? While the process you're describing would be nice and thorough, what likely happened is that an amateur enthusiast wanted a 32mm front bar, contacted Strano who in turn took a stock bar and had their supplier make a custom bar. When it proved to work the way it did...more people wanted it, got it and all was well until now. This is a custom part.....the final fit and finish is on YOU. After all, smaller bars will fit just fine. If I am not mistaken it was an 04 model that was involved in the initial order being set up for AS. Is this isolated to the 05s?
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail? And even ordered it specifically for an 05 STi? If it needs modifications like this, why weren't the parts needed in the box? Or instructions on how to make it fit in the (one page poor photocopy) instruction sheet? Let me make this clear - I am NOT bashing this bar!!!!! But I think it went out the door a wee bit premature. I don't mind being a beta tester, as long as I am knowingly signing up to be one.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail? And even ordered it specifically for an 05 STi? If it needs modifications like this, why weren't the parts needed in the box? Or instructions on how to make it fit in the (one page poor photocopy) instruction sheet? Let me make this clear - I am NOT bashing this bar!!!!! But I think it went out the door a wee bit premature. I don't mind being a beta tester, as long as I am knowingly signing up to be one.[/QUOTE]
| VpointVick | 01-17-2006 06:23 AM |
[QUOTE=White 2.5rs]good idea, but arent grade 8 fasteners named that because of the rating? not because of what they are
we had grade 5 and grade 8 fasteners at the shop i work at[/QUOTE]
Grade 5 bolts are rated to a min. 120,000 psi tensile, grade 8 are min. 150,000 psi., and while it's true that socket head cap screws are not called "grade X", they are made with a different alloy, and use a different heat treatment process, and are rated to a min. 170,000 psi.
we had grade 5 and grade 8 fasteners at the shop i work at[/QUOTE]
Grade 5 bolts are rated to a min. 120,000 psi tensile, grade 8 are min. 150,000 psi., and while it's true that socket head cap screws are not called "grade X", they are made with a different alloy, and use a different heat treatment process, and are rated to a min. 170,000 psi.
| CamaroFS34 | 01-17-2006 07:41 AM |
[QUOTE=Storm]I suppose you've asked this question directly to the people at Stranoparts? While the process you're describing would be nice and thorough, what likely happened is that an amateur enthusiast wanted a 32mm front bar, contacted Strano who in turn took a stock bar and had their supplier make a custom bar.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe, if you've [url=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12319616&postcount=27]read previous posts[/url], you'd know that Joel Fehrman -- an '05 STi owner and competitor -- designed the bar and proposed it to Strano and Addco for production? (not directed towards, Jay, but to those who swear they aren't bashing Strano or Addco or whoever, but are still managing to sound like they are bashing....)
Should I complain to Strano that I can't run my 35mm bar (on my Camaro) without the stock swaybar mounts cracking? Or that I can't run it with the stock endlinks? I mean, c'mon, why shouldn't it work with the stock fittings, since I can use it in stock class? :rolleyes:
It's a [i]huge[/i] bar -- what I'm saying is that you can't expect something that is not stock to work perfectly with the stock bolts. If you don't want to do something (add a washer/shim or use a different bolt, as has already been suggested) to make it work, then just come out and say that.
Karen
Or maybe, if you've [url=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12319616&postcount=27]read previous posts[/url], you'd know that Joel Fehrman -- an '05 STi owner and competitor -- designed the bar and proposed it to Strano and Addco for production? (not directed towards, Jay, but to those who swear they aren't bashing Strano or Addco or whoever, but are still managing to sound like they are bashing....)
Should I complain to Strano that I can't run my 35mm bar (on my Camaro) without the stock swaybar mounts cracking? Or that I can't run it with the stock endlinks? I mean, c'mon, why shouldn't it work with the stock fittings, since I can use it in stock class? :rolleyes:
It's a [i]huge[/i] bar -- what I'm saying is that you can't expect something that is not stock to work perfectly with the stock bolts. If you don't want to do something (add a washer/shim or use a different bolt, as has already been suggested) to make it work, then just come out and say that.
Karen
| AUTOwrXER | 01-17-2006 11:21 AM |
Actually I specified what I wanted (O.D., I.D., endlink arrangement, etc.), and Dan Osbourne at Addco did the design. I drove my car to his shop so that he could take all the required measurements, and he did the rest. We had a few prototypes that were off slightly before we reached a final design. That final design fit my '05 STi without rubbing. If the mounting brackets were changed, or if Subaru made a running change to the steering rack arrangement (they made a number of running changes in 2005), that could cause this issue.
I'm sure Stranoparts (distributor/vendor) and Addco (manufacturer) can resolve the problem. I'll send this thread to Sam, but he is the person to speak to about this. I'm just the guy that made this bar happen for my own personal use; I have no financial ties to it.
-Joel
I'm sure Stranoparts (distributor/vendor) and Addco (manufacturer) can resolve the problem. I'll send this thread to Sam, but he is the person to speak to about this. I'm just the guy that made this bar happen for my own personal use; I have no financial ties to it.
-Joel
| Draken | 01-17-2006 12:46 PM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34]
Should I complain to Strano that I can't run my 35mm bar (on my Camaro) without the stock swaybar mounts cracking? Or that I can't run it with the stock endlinks? I mean, c'mon, why shouldn't it work with the stock fittings, since I can use it in stock class? :rolleyes:
It's a [i]huge[/i] bar -- what I'm saying is that you can't expect something that is not stock to work perfectly with the stock bolts. If you don't want to do something (add a washer/shim or use a different bolt, as has already been suggested) to make it work, then just come out and say that.
Karen[/QUOTE]
Honestly, that's a horrible comparison Karen. Your weak stock anti-roll bar mounts not being able to withstand forces of the bigger 35mm bar, has nothing to do with a fitment problem of this bar. And, in my opinion, everyone should fully expect the bar to fit, or at least for there to be instructions detailing how to make it fit should there be interference. Joel should have been the only one dealing wiith fitment issues, as he was working with Addco to produce the product.
All that said, to the owners with rubbing issues, get under the car and space the mount out a tad. If you aren't in a class that dictates the stock steering rack bolt be used, then follow the advice and get a bolt with a smaller head. Or replace the existing flat washer and split lock washer with a wavey lock washer, and gain a little clearance that way. If you document what it takes to solve the issue, then pass it along to Sam/Joel etc., and the subie community will be better for it. Maybe Joel will throw you a cookie for your efforts.
my two cents,
Chris H.
Should I complain to Strano that I can't run my 35mm bar (on my Camaro) without the stock swaybar mounts cracking? Or that I can't run it with the stock endlinks? I mean, c'mon, why shouldn't it work with the stock fittings, since I can use it in stock class? :rolleyes:
It's a [i]huge[/i] bar -- what I'm saying is that you can't expect something that is not stock to work perfectly with the stock bolts. If you don't want to do something (add a washer/shim or use a different bolt, as has already been suggested) to make it work, then just come out and say that.
Karen[/QUOTE]
Honestly, that's a horrible comparison Karen. Your weak stock anti-roll bar mounts not being able to withstand forces of the bigger 35mm bar, has nothing to do with a fitment problem of this bar. And, in my opinion, everyone should fully expect the bar to fit, or at least for there to be instructions detailing how to make it fit should there be interference. Joel should have been the only one dealing wiith fitment issues, as he was working with Addco to produce the product.
All that said, to the owners with rubbing issues, get under the car and space the mount out a tad. If you aren't in a class that dictates the stock steering rack bolt be used, then follow the advice and get a bolt with a smaller head. Or replace the existing flat washer and split lock washer with a wavey lock washer, and gain a little clearance that way. If you document what it takes to solve the issue, then pass it along to Sam/Joel etc., and the subie community will be better for it. Maybe Joel will throw you a cookie for your efforts.
my two cents,
Chris H.
| solo-x | 01-17-2006 01:19 PM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail? And even ordered it specifically for an 05 STi? If it needs modifications like this, why weren't the parts needed in the box? Or instructions on how to make it fit in the (one page poor photocopy) instruction sheet? Let me make this clear - I am NOT bashing this bar!!!!! But I think it went out the door a wee bit premature. I don't mind being a beta tester, as long as I am knowingly signing up to be one.[/QUOTE]
man, i want to live in your world. apparently in your world, every aftermarket part for a car fits perfectly. in my world, that's not true. not even close. i'm STILL looking for a rear bar setup for my civic that isn't some hack modification of the subframe or needs 4 washers on each endlink to get them to line up right. don't get me started on aftermarket exhaust systems....
nate - thinks your expectations may have been a bit high and that if all you need to make it work is a simple shim you should count yourself lucky
man, i want to live in your world. apparently in your world, every aftermarket part for a car fits perfectly. in my world, that's not true. not even close. i'm STILL looking for a rear bar setup for my civic that isn't some hack modification of the subframe or needs 4 washers on each endlink to get them to line up right. don't get me started on aftermarket exhaust systems....
nate - thinks your expectations may have been a bit high and that if all you need to make it work is a simple shim you should count yourself lucky
| CamaroFS34 | 01-17-2006 01:21 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]Honestly, that's a horrible comparison Karen.[/QUOTE]
Well, it wasn't supposed to be directly compared to the fitment issues, just that there was a story behind the cracking swaybar mounts similar to what is evidently going on here (person whose car the bar was "tested" on didn't experience the problems that subsequent people found), but in my annoyance at someone saying they didn't think they were pointing fingers even though they were, I didn't think about the fact that most people here would not know the connection. :(
If there is only one test subject, then I don't think anyone could have known there could be an issue.
Karen
Well, it wasn't supposed to be directly compared to the fitment issues, just that there was a story behind the cracking swaybar mounts similar to what is evidently going on here (person whose car the bar was "tested" on didn't experience the problems that subsequent people found), but in my annoyance at someone saying they didn't think they were pointing fingers even though they were, I didn't think about the fact that most people here would not know the connection. :(
If there is only one test subject, then I don't think anyone could have known there could be an issue.
Karen
| BlkWRXWag | 01-17-2006 01:28 PM |
Look - I'm not trying to point fingers. I'm just trying to get the best resolution and see if other people experienced the same thing, what they did to fix it.
Thanks and sorry if that offended anyone.
Thanks and sorry if that offended anyone.
| zzyzx | 01-17-2006 01:39 PM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail?[/QUOTE]
:lol: This thread is funnAy. I'll bet Sam gets a kick outta these posts.
:lol: This thread is funnAy. I'll bet Sam gets a kick outta these posts.
| CamaroFS34 | 01-17-2006 01:43 PM |
[QUOTE=BlkWRXWag]Look - I'm not trying to point fingers. I'm just trying to get the best resolution and see if other people experienced the same thing, what they did to fix it.
Thanks and sorry if that offended anyone.[/QUOTE]
Rereading through the thread, these two remarks stand out as "fingerpointing" to me (neither are you), and so would be what I'm referring to as "fingerpointing" (bold added by me):
[quote=-OneWay-]Considering the picture included in the instructions shows the bar installed with the angle bracket that holds the endlinks installed backwards and every installation of this bar I have seen has been different to me [b]it seems like Strano/Addco spent all of 5 minutes sketching this FSB out on a paper towel before they decided to produce it and sell it.
They certainly didn't think things thru....[/b]
This bar has been out long enough for them to have corrected the instructions that come with the bar atleast ..[/quote]
[quote=z3coupe]Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail? [/quote]
He says he's not bashing the [i]bar[/i], but both of those posts sure seem to be bashing the [i]source[/i] of the bar, in a forum where these people aren't necessarily going to be able to immediately explain or defend themselves. I know you are friends with z3coupe, so can I just ask this? Why didn't you guys address this with Addco/Strano before posting? If both of you saw evidence of the bolt hitting the bar, then why not bring it to their attention before posting this thread? I've had to deal with Addco before, and they've been nothing but extremely helpful and willing to bend over backwards to make things right. Same thing with Strano. I'd hate to see either of them lose business over something like this, which I'm sure they'd make right in a second [i]if you gave them the chance to[/i]. :(
Karen
Thanks and sorry if that offended anyone.[/QUOTE]
Rereading through the thread, these two remarks stand out as "fingerpointing" to me (neither are you), and so would be what I'm referring to as "fingerpointing" (bold added by me):
[quote=-OneWay-]Considering the picture included in the instructions shows the bar installed with the angle bracket that holds the endlinks installed backwards and every installation of this bar I have seen has been different to me [b]it seems like Strano/Addco spent all of 5 minutes sketching this FSB out on a paper towel before they decided to produce it and sell it.
They certainly didn't think things thru....[/b]
This bar has been out long enough for them to have corrected the instructions that come with the bar atleast ..[/quote]
[quote=z3coupe]Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail? [/quote]
He says he's not bashing the [i]bar[/i], but both of those posts sure seem to be bashing the [i]source[/i] of the bar, in a forum where these people aren't necessarily going to be able to immediately explain or defend themselves. I know you are friends with z3coupe, so can I just ask this? Why didn't you guys address this with Addco/Strano before posting? If both of you saw evidence of the bolt hitting the bar, then why not bring it to their attention before posting this thread? I've had to deal with Addco before, and they've been nothing but extremely helpful and willing to bend over backwards to make things right. Same thing with Strano. I'd hate to see either of them lose business over something like this, which I'm sure they'd make right in a second [i]if you gave them the chance to[/i]. :(
Karen
| KC | 01-17-2006 01:45 PM |
Rocky... use the washer and space out the mount. No big deal.
| BlkWRXWag | 01-17-2006 01:50 PM |
Understood Karen. Since the people installing the bars on Subaru's were on this forum, I just wanted to see if anyone had run across this or whether I had just intalled the bars incorrectly (I installed the bar on my car and on z3coupe's). I specifically told z3coupe to not turn this into a Strano bashing thread which unfortunately seems to have happened. I sincerely apologize for that and would like to reiterate that I would still buy this bar. Some credible solutions have been mentioned and I will try them out this weekend to see if they help.
Thanks, Max.
Thanks, Max.
| AUTOwrXER | 01-17-2006 03:27 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]Honestly, that's a horrible comparison Karen. Your weak stock anti-roll bar mounts not being able to withstand forces of the bigger 35mm bar, has nothing to do with a fitment problem of this bar. And, in my opinion, everyone should fully expect the bar to fit, or at least for there to be instructions detailing how to make it fit should there be interference. Joel should have been the only one dealing wiith fitment issues, as he was working with Addco to produce the product.
All that said, to the owners with rubbing issues, get under the car and space the mount out a tad. If you aren't in a class that dictates the stock steering rack bolt be used, then follow the advice and get a bolt with a smaller head. Or replace the existing flat washer and split lock washer with a wavey lock washer, and gain a little clearance that way. If you document what it takes to solve the issue, then pass it along to Sam/Joel etc., and the subie community will be better for it. Maybe Joel will throw you a cookie for your efforts.
my two cents,
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
Chris,
Just to reiterate, this is not my product, and I am not involved in the manufacturing or resale of the bar. I do not profit from it in any way, and therefore I have no "cookies" to throw to anyone. Sam and Addco would be the correct people to talk to about it. I worked on the initial fitment, and it did fit my 05 STi without rubbing. What has changed since then, and who chooses to use it to gain a competitive advantage, is really not of interest to me.
-Joel
All that said, to the owners with rubbing issues, get under the car and space the mount out a tad. If you aren't in a class that dictates the stock steering rack bolt be used, then follow the advice and get a bolt with a smaller head. Or replace the existing flat washer and split lock washer with a wavey lock washer, and gain a little clearance that way. If you document what it takes to solve the issue, then pass it along to Sam/Joel etc., and the subie community will be better for it. Maybe Joel will throw you a cookie for your efforts.
my two cents,
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
Chris,
Just to reiterate, this is not my product, and I am not involved in the manufacturing or resale of the bar. I do not profit from it in any way, and therefore I have no "cookies" to throw to anyone. Sam and Addco would be the correct people to talk to about it. I worked on the initial fitment, and it did fit my 05 STi without rubbing. What has changed since then, and who chooses to use it to gain a competitive advantage, is really not of interest to me.
-Joel
| silver arrow | 01-17-2006 08:13 PM |
My 05 STi isn't hitting. So that brings us back to the beginning. All cars will have minor variations in dimensions. The bar has a very tight fit and it your car is off by a matter of 1-2 mm in any dimension, it may hit. It is a custom racing part and may require some minor adjustments if your car has a problem fitting the bar. Some cars it has fit fine, others have minor rubbing. If it bothers you, get a smaller FSB. I bought the bar for performance, not ease of installation.
| z3coupe | 01-18-2006 04:48 AM |
[QUOTE]Why didn't you guys address this with Addco/Strano before posting? If both of you saw evidence of the bolt hitting the bar, then why not bring it to their attention before posting this thread?[/QUOTE]Well first off, I had wanted to see if it was just a locally related problem to just our install, or if there were more having the same problem. Then we could have a more proper set of information to present to Strano or Addco for them to see a need to look into. If it were just us 2, then it would be on our shoulders to fix our poor install. If it became more of a common problem found through this post (sort of a central depository for info), then it could be presented to them to perhaps see a common denominator, and then could design an official fix for it from this post. Yes, from what some mentioned about using shims, washers, or different bolts may work. But before doing any of that, I would like to hear Sam or Addco's official thoughts. Reason being, as even karen has mentioned, is that this large bar puts a severe strain on certain parts/areas of the car. So it would be most important to make SURE that what is done, will not cause any premature failure or weakening of structure. So I would prefer to wait for their reply before doing anything on my own. But at least for now, it can be seen that at least on some 05/06 STi's, there can be an issue. 04 seems for the most part imune to it. For the record though, my 05 STi is an early model - bought in late 04.
Sorry if what I had said seemed as bashing, I get carried away sometimes with the moment.
Sorry if what I had said seemed as bashing, I get carried away sometimes with the moment.
| AUTOwrXER | 01-18-2006 09:16 AM |
Forwarding this on behalf of Sam Strano of Stranoparts:
"Let me begin by saying that I CAN NOT reply to, or start any threads on this site. I have contacted the webmaster multiple times, with no answer. I can login, but can't reply to any posts. I have been reading this and the original thread, keeping tabs. Because of this, I cannot help you in anyway unless you contact me directly. The internet is not the end-all answer and it not a replacement for a good old conversation.
I am the retailer for this bar. I did not design the bar, I am the outlet for selling it. I commissioned it, and basically arranged for it to happen to help Joel as well as have a useful product to market. It was a help for both of us. The bar was built and test fitted on Joel's '05 STi, and he has stated no issues with rubbing on this bolt. Further since this thread has begun, I've had cause to speak with two others who have the bar on their STi's. Andy Hohl, and Justin Rothermel. Neither of them have reported any issues. Andy told me yesterday there was no rubbing and he has his car apart for some other work. Justin hasn't looked lately, but hadn't noticed a thing, and I've personally been under his car and looked around very carefully because it was the first opprotunity for me to check out a bar on a car that closely.
The "test mule" and the other two I've asked about have had no issues. This tells me that it's simply not a widespread problem, and easily remedied. Along that line, it was rightly pointed out to me that with the slots in the mouting brackets that the bar can be moved around a bit, which likely would solve the issue. And would explain why this isn't a problem on some cars and not on others. The tolerances are not that great, and the bars are built in a jig.
The biggest complaint I've hear is because of noise. Some folks are insisting on using wierd things for lubes... I recommend synthetic wheel bearing grease, even anti-seize compound. But some noise can still come through, the bar is quite stiff and puts a lot of load into the body mounts. Also a few have had a clunking noise. The bar is isolated in bushings to the body, and uses non-solid endlinks. If all it tight the will not clunk. But I've found some folks don't like to use Loctite on bolts, and the adapter bracket sometimes come loose, again with the stiff bar you get a lot of force. Make sure the brackets are tight, and use some Loctite... :)
While I'm getting this out in the public, allow me to hit some other points... Someone in one of the threads had mentioned the weight of my bar with endlinks was 11.5 pounds which is what the Whiteline bar is speced at. There are two points. 1. Comparing my bar with links to Whiteline's without is not an equal comparison. 2. A Hollow 32 is stiffer than a solid 27 period, adjustable or otherwise. Moving the hole does not shorten the arms enough to make the equivilent of a 2mm change in bar size. It's popular for folks to say it's 27, but acts like 29 if you stiffen it. A 29mm bar is about 25% stiffer than a 27. To do this you'd need to shorten the lever arms around 12% on each side. What's the arm length? 8"???? I don't know offhand, but lets use that for arguments sake.... are you moving the hole 1" on each side of the bar? Does anyone has pics of this bar, because I'd like to see them. We've used some of the smaller Whiteline bars and while they had more than one hole, neither actually shortened the lever arm, which made the "adjustment" holes useless. "
----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Sam
"Let me begin by saying that I CAN NOT reply to, or start any threads on this site. I have contacted the webmaster multiple times, with no answer. I can login, but can't reply to any posts. I have been reading this and the original thread, keeping tabs. Because of this, I cannot help you in anyway unless you contact me directly. The internet is not the end-all answer and it not a replacement for a good old conversation.
I am the retailer for this bar. I did not design the bar, I am the outlet for selling it. I commissioned it, and basically arranged for it to happen to help Joel as well as have a useful product to market. It was a help for both of us. The bar was built and test fitted on Joel's '05 STi, and he has stated no issues with rubbing on this bolt. Further since this thread has begun, I've had cause to speak with two others who have the bar on their STi's. Andy Hohl, and Justin Rothermel. Neither of them have reported any issues. Andy told me yesterday there was no rubbing and he has his car apart for some other work. Justin hasn't looked lately, but hadn't noticed a thing, and I've personally been under his car and looked around very carefully because it was the first opprotunity for me to check out a bar on a car that closely.
The "test mule" and the other two I've asked about have had no issues. This tells me that it's simply not a widespread problem, and easily remedied. Along that line, it was rightly pointed out to me that with the slots in the mouting brackets that the bar can be moved around a bit, which likely would solve the issue. And would explain why this isn't a problem on some cars and not on others. The tolerances are not that great, and the bars are built in a jig.
The biggest complaint I've hear is because of noise. Some folks are insisting on using wierd things for lubes... I recommend synthetic wheel bearing grease, even anti-seize compound. But some noise can still come through, the bar is quite stiff and puts a lot of load into the body mounts. Also a few have had a clunking noise. The bar is isolated in bushings to the body, and uses non-solid endlinks. If all it tight the will not clunk. But I've found some folks don't like to use Loctite on bolts, and the adapter bracket sometimes come loose, again with the stiff bar you get a lot of force. Make sure the brackets are tight, and use some Loctite... :)
While I'm getting this out in the public, allow me to hit some other points... Someone in one of the threads had mentioned the weight of my bar with endlinks was 11.5 pounds which is what the Whiteline bar is speced at. There are two points. 1. Comparing my bar with links to Whiteline's without is not an equal comparison. 2. A Hollow 32 is stiffer than a solid 27 period, adjustable or otherwise. Moving the hole does not shorten the arms enough to make the equivilent of a 2mm change in bar size. It's popular for folks to say it's 27, but acts like 29 if you stiffen it. A 29mm bar is about 25% stiffer than a 27. To do this you'd need to shorten the lever arms around 12% on each side. What's the arm length? 8"???? I don't know offhand, but lets use that for arguments sake.... are you moving the hole 1" on each side of the bar? Does anyone has pics of this bar, because I'd like to see them. We've used some of the smaller Whiteline bars and while they had more than one hole, neither actually shortened the lever arm, which made the "adjustment" holes useless. "
----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Sam
| AUTOwrXER | 01-18-2006 09:19 AM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]For the record though, my 05 STi is an early model - bought in late 04.[/QUOTE]
So is mine. I bought the first one delivered to the dealer. That would point more toward production variances on both the Subaru and the bar/brackets than a running change to the 2005 model.
-Joel
So is mine. I bought the first one delivered to the dealer. That would point more toward production variances on both the Subaru and the bar/brackets than a running change to the 2005 model.
-Joel
| AndrewSS | 01-18-2006 09:33 AM |
[quote]While I'm getting this out in the public, allow me to hit some other points... Someone in one of the threads had mentioned the weight of my bar with endlinks was 11.5 pounds which is what the Whiteline bar is speced at. There are two points. 1. Comparing my bar with links to Whiteline's without is not an equal comparison. 2. A Hollow 32 is stiffer than a solid 27 period, adjustable or otherwise. Moving the hole does not shorten the arms enough to make the equivilent of a 2mm change in bar size. It's popular for folks to say it's 27, but acts like 29 if you stiffen it. A 29mm bar is about 25% stiffer than a 27. To do this you'd need to shorten the lever arms around 12% on each side. What's the arm length? 8"???? I don't know offhand, but lets use that for arguments sake.... are you moving the hole 1" on each side of the bar? Does anyone has pics of this bar, because I'd like to see them. We've used some of the smaller Whiteline bars and while they had more than one hole, neither actually shortened the lever arm, which made the "adjustment" holes useless. "[/quote]
here is a pic of the whiteline x3006 (27-29*adjustable) installed on my car.
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/2075000-2075999/2075362_19_full.jpg[/img]
here is a pic of the whiteline x3006 (27-29*adjustable) installed on my car.
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/2075000-2075999/2075362_19_full.jpg[/img]
| Draken | 01-18-2006 11:33 AM |
[QUOTE=Sam]While I'm getting this out in the public, allow me to hit some other points... Someone in one of the threads had mentioned the weight of my bar with endlinks was 11.5 pounds which is what the Whiteline bar is speced at. There are two points. 1. Comparing my bar with links to Whiteline's without is not an equal comparison. 2. A Hollow 32 is stiffer than a solid 27 period, adjustable or otherwise. Moving the hole does not shorten the arms enough to make the equivilent of a 2mm change in bar size. It's popular for folks to say it's 27, but acts like 29 if you stiffen it. A 29mm bar is about 25% stiffer than a 27. To do this you'd need to shorten the lever arms around 12% on each side. What's the arm length? 8"???? I don't know offhand, but lets use that for arguments sake.... are you moving the hole 1" on each side of the bar? Does anyone has pics of this bar, because I'd like to see them. We've used some of the smaller Whiteline bars and while they had more than one hole, neither actually shortened the lever arm, which made the "adjustment" holes useless. "
----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Sam[/QUOTE]
Ummmm....disputing claims without actually knowing the basic facts?
1 - False. A comparison can be made. The Whiteline does not need aftermarket end links. And for those that run popular stock fitment aftermarket end links, those don't weigh much more than stock either. The 32mm Strano bar does require these end links you have designed.
2a - You, Joel, or Addco are the only ones that can say that, because the public doesn't know the diameter of the "hollow" part to run the calcs. Without knowing the center hollow, or the effective lever arm, I can only guess. But, that's just a guess, not fact.
2b - If you haven't seen or measured the Whiteline X3006 bar, how can you make such comments about its stiffness vs. the 32mm Addco bar? The change in the hole position and effective short lever arm does have a rather good effect on the bar's overall stiffness. It's basic math. I calculate about a 44% increase in stiffness between the Whiteline's soft and stiff hole positions. Yes, a 1" lever arm change on a 5-6" lever arm can produce the stiffness changes mentioned.
Wow, just wow. Smoke and magic it appears...
Joel: i'm sorry if my earlier comment about the cookie came off wrong. i meant the kind of cookie that Hoppe would give someone. Also, thanks for coming up with and helping to prove the theory of the big front bar. Without your effort, this concept wouldn't have had as much basis.
Chris H.
----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Sam[/QUOTE]
Ummmm....disputing claims without actually knowing the basic facts?
1 - False. A comparison can be made. The Whiteline does not need aftermarket end links. And for those that run popular stock fitment aftermarket end links, those don't weigh much more than stock either. The 32mm Strano bar does require these end links you have designed.
2a - You, Joel, or Addco are the only ones that can say that, because the public doesn't know the diameter of the "hollow" part to run the calcs. Without knowing the center hollow, or the effective lever arm, I can only guess. But, that's just a guess, not fact.
2b - If you haven't seen or measured the Whiteline X3006 bar, how can you make such comments about its stiffness vs. the 32mm Addco bar? The change in the hole position and effective short lever arm does have a rather good effect on the bar's overall stiffness. It's basic math. I calculate about a 44% increase in stiffness between the Whiteline's soft and stiff hole positions. Yes, a 1" lever arm change on a 5-6" lever arm can produce the stiffness changes mentioned.
Wow, just wow. Smoke and magic it appears...
Joel: i'm sorry if my earlier comment about the cookie came off wrong. i meant the kind of cookie that Hoppe would give someone. Also, thanks for coming up with and helping to prove the theory of the big front bar. Without your effort, this concept wouldn't have had as much basis.
Chris H.
| trhoppe | 01-18-2006 11:44 AM |
Ok, just one quick comment with no disrespect meant.
Its a 32mm bar people. Its made to fit and stuffed into a spot that was reserved for a stock 19mm bar. Its a MOTORSPORTS part, not a daily driver part (although it *can* be used that way). Expect some noise, expect some clunking, expect some squeaking.
-Tom
(arsehole)
Its a 32mm bar people. Its made to fit and stuffed into a spot that was reserved for a stock 19mm bar. Its a MOTORSPORTS part, not a daily driver part (although it *can* be used that way). Expect some noise, expect some clunking, expect some squeaking.
-Tom
(arsehole)
| BrianGT | 01-18-2006 11:58 AM |
I had the same issue with the power steering bolt in my car when I installed the bar in my wife's car. Here is a picture from my install:
[img]http://mere.darg.net/albums/sti-fsb/pinkfsb_006.sized.jpg[/img]
I tried using clamps to move the mounts to get the bar away from the bolt, but couldn't find a way to do so. I followed Rankink's advice and ground a small portion of the top of the bolt off, and the problem is now non-existant.
I don't mind a bit of extra noise, but before this was done the car would make constant noise when on the highway. (had it this way for a couple of weeks)
We upgraded from the X3006 bar, and there is a significant difference in the 2 bars. I have a comparison picture in my wife's gallery:
[url]http://mere.darg.net/sti-fsb[/url]
--
Brian
[img]http://mere.darg.net/albums/sti-fsb/pinkfsb_006.sized.jpg[/img]
I tried using clamps to move the mounts to get the bar away from the bolt, but couldn't find a way to do so. I followed Rankink's advice and ground a small portion of the top of the bolt off, and the problem is now non-existant.
I don't mind a bit of extra noise, but before this was done the car would make constant noise when on the highway. (had it this way for a couple of weeks)
We upgraded from the X3006 bar, and there is a significant difference in the 2 bars. I have a comparison picture in my wife's gallery:
[url]http://mere.darg.net/sti-fsb[/url]
--
Brian
| VpointVick | 01-18-2006 12:58 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]Ummmm....disputing claims without actually knowing the basic facts?
1 - False. A comparison can be made. The Whiteline does not need aftermarket end links. And for those that run popular stock fitment aftermarket end links, those don't weigh much more than stock either. The 32mm Strano bar does require these end links you have designed.
2a - You, Joel, or Addco are the only ones that can say that, because the public doesn't know the diameter of the "hollow" part to run the calcs. Without knowing the center hollow, or the effective lever arm, I can only guess. But, that's just a guess, not fact.
2b - If you haven't seen or measured the Whiteline X3006 bar, how can you make such comments about its stiffness vs. the 32mm Addco bar? The change in the hole position and effective short lever arm does have a rather good effect on the bar's overall stiffness. It's basic math. I calculate about a 44% increase in stiffness between the Whiteline's soft and stiff hole positions. Yes, a 1" lever arm change on a 5-6" lever arm can produce the stiffness changes mentioned.
Wow, just wow. Smoke and magic it appears...
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
1) He's talking about a [I]weight[/I] comparison, so whether or not the Whiteline bar needs aftermarket endlinks or not is irrelevent. If you weigh the Strano bar with the endlinks, then you need to weigh the Whiteline bar with endlinks also in order to make an apples to apples weight comparison.
2a) Joel stated, in post #11 of the original thread, that the wall thickness of the Strano bar was 3/16", so if someone that has the Strano bar can take a tape measure to it, and tell us what the lever arm measures, you should be able to run the calcs yourself. Sam has stated that it would be equivelent to a 29.6mm iirc.
2b) Whiteline states that, in the stiffest mounting position, their 27mm bar is equivelent to a 29mm bar. Taking that at face value, Sam's is still going to be stiffer if his is equivelent to a 29.6mm bar, isn't it?
Besides, he follows up by saying - "Does anyone has pics of this bar, because I'd like to see them. We've used some of the smaller Whiteline bars and while they had more than one hole, neither actually shortened the lever arm, which made the "adjustment" holes useless."
It seems that he may be basing his suppositions on some previous experience, but is open to enlightenment, so I really don't get the attitude with which you responded. It's made worse by the fact that Sam can't respond to you himself.
I don't see any "smoke and mirrors". No matter how you cut it, the Strano bar is at least as stiff as the Whiteline, and it's lighter as well.
If you are happy with your Whitline bar, fine. It doesn't look to me like anyone is going to think ill of you for your opinion.
1 - False. A comparison can be made. The Whiteline does not need aftermarket end links. And for those that run popular stock fitment aftermarket end links, those don't weigh much more than stock either. The 32mm Strano bar does require these end links you have designed.
2a - You, Joel, or Addco are the only ones that can say that, because the public doesn't know the diameter of the "hollow" part to run the calcs. Without knowing the center hollow, or the effective lever arm, I can only guess. But, that's just a guess, not fact.
2b - If you haven't seen or measured the Whiteline X3006 bar, how can you make such comments about its stiffness vs. the 32mm Addco bar? The change in the hole position and effective short lever arm does have a rather good effect on the bar's overall stiffness. It's basic math. I calculate about a 44% increase in stiffness between the Whiteline's soft and stiff hole positions. Yes, a 1" lever arm change on a 5-6" lever arm can produce the stiffness changes mentioned.
Wow, just wow. Smoke and magic it appears...
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
1) He's talking about a [I]weight[/I] comparison, so whether or not the Whiteline bar needs aftermarket endlinks or not is irrelevent. If you weigh the Strano bar with the endlinks, then you need to weigh the Whiteline bar with endlinks also in order to make an apples to apples weight comparison.
2a) Joel stated, in post #11 of the original thread, that the wall thickness of the Strano bar was 3/16", so if someone that has the Strano bar can take a tape measure to it, and tell us what the lever arm measures, you should be able to run the calcs yourself. Sam has stated that it would be equivelent to a 29.6mm iirc.
2b) Whiteline states that, in the stiffest mounting position, their 27mm bar is equivelent to a 29mm bar. Taking that at face value, Sam's is still going to be stiffer if his is equivelent to a 29.6mm bar, isn't it?
Besides, he follows up by saying - "Does anyone has pics of this bar, because I'd like to see them. We've used some of the smaller Whiteline bars and while they had more than one hole, neither actually shortened the lever arm, which made the "adjustment" holes useless."
It seems that he may be basing his suppositions on some previous experience, but is open to enlightenment, so I really don't get the attitude with which you responded. It's made worse by the fact that Sam can't respond to you himself.
I don't see any "smoke and mirrors". No matter how you cut it, the Strano bar is at least as stiff as the Whiteline, and it's lighter as well.
If you are happy with your Whitline bar, fine. It doesn't look to me like anyone is going to think ill of you for your opinion.
| dowroa | 01-18-2006 01:06 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Ok, just one quick comment with no disrespect meant.
Its a 32mm bar people. Its made to fit and stuffed into a spot that was reserved for a stock 19mm bar. Its a MOTORSPORTS part, not a daily driver part (although it *can* be used that way). Expect some noise, expect some clunking, expect some squeaking.
-Tom
(arsehole)[/QUOTE]
Mine doesn't squeak. In fact, my Strano bar squeaks LESS than the Whiteline bar I had due to the solid endlinks. I was using the stockers, but the Strano bar endlink design is what I like TONS better.
I have been thinking about polyeurathane bushings though... might be too much sheer stress on that bolt though.
- dow
Its a 32mm bar people. Its made to fit and stuffed into a spot that was reserved for a stock 19mm bar. Its a MOTORSPORTS part, not a daily driver part (although it *can* be used that way). Expect some noise, expect some clunking, expect some squeaking.
-Tom
(arsehole)[/QUOTE]
Mine doesn't squeak. In fact, my Strano bar squeaks LESS than the Whiteline bar I had due to the solid endlinks. I was using the stockers, but the Strano bar endlink design is what I like TONS better.
I have been thinking about polyeurathane bushings though... might be too much sheer stress on that bolt though.
- dow
| BlkWRXWag | 01-18-2006 01:09 PM |
I agree - mine is as silent as the stock bar.
| Draken | 01-18-2006 01:26 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]1) He's talking about a [I]weight[/I] comparison, so whether or not the Whiteline bar needs aftermarket endlinks or not is irrelevent. If you weigh the Strano bar with the endlinks, then you need to weigh the Whiteline bar with endlinks also in order to make an apples to apples weight comparison.
2a) Joel stated, in post #11 of the original thread, that the wall thickness of the Strano bar was 3/16", so if someone that has the Strano bar can take a tape measure to it, and tell us what the lever arm measures, you should be able to run the calcs yourself. Sam has stated that it would be equivelent to a 29.6mm iirc.
2b) Whiteline states that, in the stiffest mounting position, their 27mm bar is equivelent to a 29mm bar. Taking that at face value, Sam's is still going to be stiffer if his is equivelent to a 29.6mm bar, isn't it?
Besides, he follows up by saying - "Does anyone has pics of this bar, because I'd like to see them. We've used some of the smaller Whiteline bars and while they had more than one hole, neither actually shortened the lever arm, which made the "adjustment" holes useless."
It seems that he may be basing his suppositions on some previous experience, but is open to enlightenment, so I really don't get the attitude with which you responded. It's made worse by the fact that Sam can't respond to you himself.
I don't see any "smoke and mirrors". No matter how you cut it, the Strano bar is at least as stiff as the Whiteline, and it's lighter as well.
If you are happy with your Whitline bar, fine. It doesn't look to me like anyone is going to think ill of you for your opinion.[/QUOTE]
1 - I agree completely. The weight of the bar and endlinks for both bars is what should be compared. Apples vs. apples. Yes, the bar itself is lighter, however heavier end links are used. Really, we're talking a pound here anyways. So i'll stop blabbing ;)
2a - Thank you, i completely missed the statement of 3/16" wall thickness.
2b - I'm actually not assuming anything. I will be measuring the torsion length and the lever arm of the whiteline when i get home, and runs those calcs. If you wanted to do the same of your Strano bar, then we could simply run the numbers.
Looking at the pics provided in the link by BrianGT, it appears the center torsion length of the bar is roughly 5" longer (2-3" per side guestimate) on the Strano, and lever arm is about 1" less. So based off my quick calcs, I'm thinking the Strano bar is 5-10% stiffer.
And believe me, I think the Strano bar is awesome. I've considered one myself as an upgrade over the Whiteline. But i want to get a few events in on street tires and concrete before i decide. Also, I genuily was/am curious how much stiffer the Strano bar really is.
I just don't want to use assumptions or guesses to base my change off of.
Thank you for your clarification to my post.
Chris H.
2a) Joel stated, in post #11 of the original thread, that the wall thickness of the Strano bar was 3/16", so if someone that has the Strano bar can take a tape measure to it, and tell us what the lever arm measures, you should be able to run the calcs yourself. Sam has stated that it would be equivelent to a 29.6mm iirc.
2b) Whiteline states that, in the stiffest mounting position, their 27mm bar is equivelent to a 29mm bar. Taking that at face value, Sam's is still going to be stiffer if his is equivelent to a 29.6mm bar, isn't it?
Besides, he follows up by saying - "Does anyone has pics of this bar, because I'd like to see them. We've used some of the smaller Whiteline bars and while they had more than one hole, neither actually shortened the lever arm, which made the "adjustment" holes useless."
It seems that he may be basing his suppositions on some previous experience, but is open to enlightenment, so I really don't get the attitude with which you responded. It's made worse by the fact that Sam can't respond to you himself.
I don't see any "smoke and mirrors". No matter how you cut it, the Strano bar is at least as stiff as the Whiteline, and it's lighter as well.
If you are happy with your Whitline bar, fine. It doesn't look to me like anyone is going to think ill of you for your opinion.[/QUOTE]
1 - I agree completely. The weight of the bar and endlinks for both bars is what should be compared. Apples vs. apples. Yes, the bar itself is lighter, however heavier end links are used. Really, we're talking a pound here anyways. So i'll stop blabbing ;)
2a - Thank you, i completely missed the statement of 3/16" wall thickness.
2b - I'm actually not assuming anything. I will be measuring the torsion length and the lever arm of the whiteline when i get home, and runs those calcs. If you wanted to do the same of your Strano bar, then we could simply run the numbers.
Looking at the pics provided in the link by BrianGT, it appears the center torsion length of the bar is roughly 5" longer (2-3" per side guestimate) on the Strano, and lever arm is about 1" less. So based off my quick calcs, I'm thinking the Strano bar is 5-10% stiffer.
And believe me, I think the Strano bar is awesome. I've considered one myself as an upgrade over the Whiteline. But i want to get a few events in on street tires and concrete before i decide. Also, I genuily was/am curious how much stiffer the Strano bar really is.
I just don't want to use assumptions or guesses to base my change off of.
Thank you for your clarification to my post.
Chris H.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét