| AtomicRacer | 03-30-2006 10:14 AM |
[QUOTE=kursplat] i hung the bar from the middle bushings first. then for the endlinks i installed the bolts from the bottom. stacked everything but the last bushing/washer and used a small floorjack to compress everything. used to do it this way on MOPARS all the time. can't wait to try this on the track.[/QUOTE]
Ok, that sounds like an excellent idea. I will try it this Saturday.
-Paul
Ok, that sounds like an excellent idea. I will try it this Saturday.
-Paul
| silver arrow | 03-30-2006 12:23 PM |
[QUOTE=kursplat] i hung the bar from the middle bushings first. then for the endlinks i installed the bolts from the bottom. stacked everything but the last bushing/washer and used a small floorjack to compress everything. used to do it this way on MOPARS all the time. can't wait to try this on the track.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly how I got mine installed. :)
That's exactly how I got mine installed. :)
| IBAUCLAPlaya | 04-09-2006 01:14 PM |
Just installed mine, just one question. How tight should I make the endlink bolts? I have about 1/4" - 3/8" of thread outside the nut. It feels snug, but not like tight. Is there a torque spec or an amount of thread that should be outside the nut? Car is MY04 WRX.
| AndrewSS | 04-10-2006 01:12 PM |
it seems like showing about 3 threads on the end of the bolt is good... thats what mine are at... Did you use all the washers for your endlinks?
| IBAUCLAPlaya | 04-11-2006 12:36 AM |
Yepp. I have alot more than three threads showing haha. I'm probably going to loosen mine quite a bit.
| McRon | 05-29-2006 06:59 PM |
I was running this bar on my 05 sti. The part of the control arm that the endlink mount attaches to broke off on the drivers side. I did love how the bar made the car feel but I won't be putting it back on. I'm sure the bar is good if its used for what it's intended for, but for my driving style it's no good.
| AndrewSS | 05-29-2006 09:09 PM |
Hey guys, just something I would like to add in for the strano FSB owners.
To start, my car has stock struts and springs on noltec plates (front).
I have the strano bar of course, well yesterday me and a friend were doing a rotation on those noltec plates... well anyway we didnt want to undo the bar again since the thing tensions the suspension so much it makes it a bit hard to work the strut off the hub.
Well, the first side the bar tensioned it so much that when my friend worked the bolts out of the hub/strut the hub flung forward pretty violently...
We didnt know it but that violent action actually "pulled" the axel out of the diff... then on an incline with my nose pointed down about 1-2 quarts of gear oil spilled out... so we had to get the car back on and start over on that side and get it back in there.
Anyway just letting you guys know, that for my car that happened - so keep that in mind when you are gonna take the struts off the hubs... that it can tension it so much that the hub might violently swing outward.
-Andrew
To start, my car has stock struts and springs on noltec plates (front).
I have the strano bar of course, well yesterday me and a friend were doing a rotation on those noltec plates... well anyway we didnt want to undo the bar again since the thing tensions the suspension so much it makes it a bit hard to work the strut off the hub.
Well, the first side the bar tensioned it so much that when my friend worked the bolts out of the hub/strut the hub flung forward pretty violently...
We didnt know it but that violent action actually "pulled" the axel out of the diff... then on an incline with my nose pointed down about 1-2 quarts of gear oil spilled out... so we had to get the car back on and start over on that side and get it back in there.
Anyway just letting you guys know, that for my car that happened - so keep that in mind when you are gonna take the struts off the hubs... that it can tension it so much that the hub might violently swing outward.
-Andrew
| wrxkix | 05-29-2006 09:25 PM |
[QUOTE=McRon]I was running this bar on my 05 sti. The part of the control arm that the endlink mount attaches to broke off on the drivers side. I did love how the bar made the car feel but I won't be putting it back on. I'm sure the bar is good if its used for what it's intended for, but for my driving style it's no good.[/QUOTE]
On my 06 WRX I am at two broken control arms and counting. I am looking to modify or completely make a new endlink for the bar. It is obvious the stock control arm endlink mounting tab cannot stand up to the Strano FSB/endlink setup while utilizing stock springs, and r-comps. Hope to have a solution soon.
On my 06 WRX I am at two broken control arms and counting. I am looking to modify or completely make a new endlink for the bar. It is obvious the stock control arm endlink mounting tab cannot stand up to the Strano FSB/endlink setup while utilizing stock springs, and r-comps. Hope to have a solution soon.
| Arnie | 05-30-2006 03:01 PM |
Can you guys post up pics of your broken control arms?
I'm wondering if the endlink design causes much more lateral or fore/aft tension on the control arm tab since it mounts perpendicular to the swaybar and control arm. The stock endlinks and most endlinks that mount conventionally (OEM like) allow the bar to rotate around the monting bolt/ball joint. The Strano endlink doesn't seem to do this. With this bar, that's seems like a lot of tension on the control arm mounting tab.
I'm wondering if the endlink design causes much more lateral or fore/aft tension on the control arm tab since it mounts perpendicular to the swaybar and control arm. The stock endlinks and most endlinks that mount conventionally (OEM like) allow the bar to rotate around the monting bolt/ball joint. The Strano endlink doesn't seem to do this. With this bar, that's seems like a lot of tension on the control arm mounting tab.
| Arnie | 05-30-2006 03:04 PM |
Here are the pics from the first page.
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]as a side note this is how I installed the Endlinks
Picture with the suspension hanging and the car on a lift.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
Picture of the endlinks with the car on the ground.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranoontheground.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranog.jpg[/IMG]
The bolt going thru the bushings is not at an angle with the car on the ground
Considering the picture included in the instructions shows the bar installed with the angle bracket that holds the endlinks installed backwards and every installation of this bar I have seen has been different.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]as a side note this is how I installed the Endlinks
Picture with the suspension hanging and the car on a lift.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
Picture of the endlinks with the car on the ground.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranoontheground.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranog.jpg[/IMG]
The bolt going thru the bushings is not at an angle with the car on the ground
Considering the picture included in the instructions shows the bar installed with the angle bracket that holds the endlinks installed backwards and every installation of this bar I have seen has been different.[/QUOTE]
| wrxkix | 05-30-2006 07:30 PM |
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pfc2a47a225e1c56e07741905c775276c/eec0c37e.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pb87b28deb8e117e45c9c0f43a2399f13/eec0c25e.jpg[/IMG]
Two pics of my first break.
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pb87b28deb8e117e45c9c0f43a2399f13/eec0c25e.jpg[/IMG]
Two pics of my first break.
| BlueSTI4Me | 05-30-2006 08:27 PM |
wrxkix,
Did it break both sides or just one? How many miles before the first break? second break. I'm curious more than anything.
Thanks,
Darryl
Did it break both sides or just one? How many miles before the first break? second break. I'm curious more than anything.
Thanks,
Darryl
| wrxkix | 05-30-2006 09:12 PM |
Three autoxs then the first one on the drivers side broke. Two more autoxs and the passenger side breaks. I have less than 5000 miles on the car. It is not the road miles that are doing it, it is the autoxing with the R-comps IMHO. I did make it though TT at VIR with no problems between the two breaks. The failure is identical on each side.
| crystalhelix | 05-30-2006 10:56 PM |
I haven't had this issue. Are the cars with control arm issues running stock struts with stock springs or only slightly stiffer than stock? I haven't had any issues for over a year but I run it with coil-overs.
J
J
| kursplat | 05-31-2006 01:09 AM |
on stock spring and struts with original tires. no problems yet, will be keeping an eye on the control arms
| Arnie | 05-31-2006 01:21 AM |
Perhaps variances in torquing or over torquing the endlink nuts might have an effect/influence.
| wrxkix | 05-31-2006 07:48 AM |
[QUOTE=Arnie]Perhaps variances in torquing or over torquing the endlink nuts might have an effect/influence.[/QUOTE]
Overtorquing the endlink nuts is definitely not the issue. I had them snug the first go round and had them not so snug the second time. On my car (06 WRX ), It is the combination of the soft stock springs, r-compounds and autox. I could hear them when they failed. Both times it was during a manuever that put an extreme load on the swaybar. Such as a pivot cone or a really tight slalom.
I have run with the stock tires with no problems at a few autoxs and I have run a track day with r-comps with no issues. The car is daily driven about 2 times a week, and again this has caused no problems.
If you car uses stiffer springs,no R-comps and you do not autox, I think the likelyhood of this happening is less with each item out of the equation. How much less? I could not guess, that would depend on your setup and driving style.
Overtorquing the endlink nuts is definitely not the issue. I had them snug the first go round and had them not so snug the second time. On my car (06 WRX ), It is the combination of the soft stock springs, r-compounds and autox. I could hear them when they failed. Both times it was during a manuever that put an extreme load on the swaybar. Such as a pivot cone or a really tight slalom.
I have run with the stock tires with no problems at a few autoxs and I have run a track day with r-comps with no issues. The car is daily driven about 2 times a week, and again this has caused no problems.
If you car uses stiffer springs,no R-comps and you do not autox, I think the likelyhood of this happening is less with each item out of the equation. How much less? I could not guess, that would depend on your setup and driving style.
| kursplat | 06-01-2006 01:03 AM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]Overtorquing the endlink nuts is definitely not the issue. I had them snug the first go round and had them not so snug the second time. On my car (06 WRX ), It is the combination of the soft stock springs, r-compounds and autox. I could hear them when they failed. Both times it was during a manuever that put an extreme load on the swaybar. Such as a pivot cone or a really tight slalom.
I have run with the stock tires with no problems at a few autoxs and I have run a track day with r-comps with no issues. The car is daily driven about 2 times a week, and again this has caused no problems.
If you car uses stiffer springs,no R-comps and you do not autox, I think the likelyhood of this happening is less with each item out of the equation. How much less? I could not guess, that would depend on your setup and driving style.[/QUOTE]
anyone with LOTS of welding experience want to comment on the possibility of adding some material or replacing the tabs on the control arms to strengthen them ?
mines daily driven with about 40 auto-x runs on street tires. i'll be looking for any obvious deformation or cracking
I have run with the stock tires with no problems at a few autoxs and I have run a track day with r-comps with no issues. The car is daily driven about 2 times a week, and again this has caused no problems.
If you car uses stiffer springs,no R-comps and you do not autox, I think the likelyhood of this happening is less with each item out of the equation. How much less? I could not guess, that would depend on your setup and driving style.[/QUOTE]
anyone with LOTS of welding experience want to comment on the possibility of adding some material or replacing the tabs on the control arms to strengthen them ?
mines daily driven with about 40 auto-x runs on street tires. i'll be looking for any obvious deformation or cracking
| silver arrow | 06-01-2006 09:17 AM |
From what I have gathered, the control arms for STi and 06 WRX are different parts. They have different part numbers and to date I haven't seen any STi's with broken control arms. If I owned a WRX I would be sure to get the STi control arms. They cost twice as much but appear to be stronger.
| VpointVick | 06-01-2006 09:25 AM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]From what I have gathered, the control arms for STi and 06 WRX are different parts. They have different part numbers and to date I haven't seen any STi's with broken control arms. If I owned a WRX I would be sure to get the STi control arms. They cost twice as much but appear to be stronger.[/QUOTE]
Post #306. '05 STi.
Post #306. '05 STi.
| McRon | 06-01-2006 12:43 PM |
I am also on stock springs and struts. I will probably try the bar again if I get springs. Less travel and stiffer springs would probably put less stress on the bar right?
| RedTRex | 06-01-2006 01:44 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]From what I have gathered, the control arms for STi and 06 WRX are different parts. They have different part numbers and to date I haven't seen any STi's with broken control arms. If I owned a WRX I would be sure to get the STi control arms. They cost twice as much but appear to be stronger.[/QUOTE]
Which is fine as long as you are not running Auto-X in Stock Class.......:)
However, since we now have some broken STI arms.....I'm thinking the Strano is just too much W/O some HD aftermarket arms.......
Which is fine as long as you are not running Auto-X in Stock Class.......:)
However, since we now have some broken STI arms.....I'm thinking the Strano is just too much W/O some HD aftermarket arms.......
| makofoto | 06-01-2006 01:48 PM |
or ST class's. No reports of the same problem with any of the other massive front sway bars? Any problems with WRX's using steel A arms?
| Aaron B | 06-01-2006 03:55 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]Any problems with WRX's using steel A arms?[/QUOTE]
Checked mine last night, 5 events (4 on grippy concrete, 1 on low grip coated asphalt) and about 2000 road miles, no signs of any problems yet - except for constantly having to regrease the thing, just been using cheap marine grease.
STX setup - 235/40 'kooks on 17x8 Torques; Koni/GC's 350F/375R; -3.5* front camber; progress rear bar on stiff setting.
I'll continue checking them, I've got a pretty busy month lined up here going into the Milwaukee Nat'l Tour...
Checked mine last night, 5 events (4 on grippy concrete, 1 on low grip coated asphalt) and about 2000 road miles, no signs of any problems yet - except for constantly having to regrease the thing, just been using cheap marine grease.
STX setup - 235/40 'kooks on 17x8 Torques; Koni/GC's 350F/375R; -3.5* front camber; progress rear bar on stiff setting.
I'll continue checking them, I've got a pretty busy month lined up here going into the Milwaukee Nat'l Tour...
| subieworx | 06-01-2006 03:56 PM |
I have never heard of this happening with the large Whiteline bar. Which means either the Strano bar is distributing more force or the endlinks style is causing problems. The Whiteline should be pretty equivalent force wise to the Strano bar.
| AndrewSS | 06-01-2006 06:04 PM |
interesting problem... thats just what I need - more freaking issues with my car... yikes !
| Arnie | 06-01-2006 06:08 PM |
I guess there's a reason people go with proven parts. No sense being part of the test mileage for a company.
| Draken | 06-01-2006 06:35 PM |
i bet "nobody has called me once on this yet"
| Arnie | 06-01-2006 06:49 PM |
:lol:
| silver arrow | 06-01-2006 06:51 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]i bet "nobody has called me once on this yet"[/QUOTE]
If a tree falls in the woods and you weren't there, did it still make a noise? This tread documents several control arms breaking with the bar. They probably didn't call because what are you going to do about it? It is a racing part and comes with risks of installing it. We take the responsiblity for putting race parts on our cars, but we will warn others of possible problems.
i bet you know now. ;)
If a tree falls in the woods and you weren't there, did it still make a noise? This tread documents several control arms breaking with the bar. They probably didn't call because what are you going to do about it? It is a racing part and comes with risks of installing it. We take the responsiblity for putting race parts on our cars, but we will warn others of possible problems.
i bet you know now. ;)
| RedTRex | 06-01-2006 08:09 PM |
I have an 06 WRX with Whiteline 29mm FSB, so far (knock on wood) no problems. will post if something happens.:)
| wrxkix | 06-01-2006 09:18 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]If a tree falls in the woods and you weren't there, did it still make a noise? This tread documents several control arms breaking with the bar. They probably didn't call because what are you going to do about it? It is a racing part and comes with risks of installing it. We take the responsiblity for putting race parts on our cars, but we will warn others of possible problems.
i bet you know now. ;)[/QUOTE]
Just an FYI. I did email Sam when my first arm broke, he said he thought it was probably a casting flaw. He also said I was the first one he heard of having that issue.
I was not and am not looking for him to replace or repair any parts. As you mention, I am fully aware that it is a performance part and there were/are risks installing it. I did want to give Sam some feedback and see if anyone else was having this problem and if he had any ideas on correcting it.
Now that others have come forward with the same problem, I realize it is not a casting flaw, and I hope to take measures to correct the problem at the endlink mounting location.
I thought about emailing Sam again to give him an update, but to be honest, I figured he would chime in on this thread when, or if, he saw the updates on this thread. And yes, I did want to give others feedback on my experience and hopefully come up with a permanent resolution by bouncing ideas off each other.
i bet you know now. ;)[/QUOTE]
Just an FYI. I did email Sam when my first arm broke, he said he thought it was probably a casting flaw. He also said I was the first one he heard of having that issue.
I was not and am not looking for him to replace or repair any parts. As you mention, I am fully aware that it is a performance part and there were/are risks installing it. I did want to give Sam some feedback and see if anyone else was having this problem and if he had any ideas on correcting it.
Now that others have come forward with the same problem, I realize it is not a casting flaw, and I hope to take measures to correct the problem at the endlink mounting location.
I thought about emailing Sam again to give him an update, but to be honest, I figured he would chime in on this thread when, or if, he saw the updates on this thread. And yes, I did want to give others feedback on my experience and hopefully come up with a permanent resolution by bouncing ideas off each other.
| silver arrow | 06-01-2006 09:42 PM |
I am seriously considering switching to Whiteline bar. The only bad part is with these problems with the Stranos bar I won't be able to get any money out of selling it, unless I can get an 02-05 WRX owner to buy it. Haven't heard of any steel arms breaking and I can't sell it to someone with aluminum arms in good conscience unless a solution is found.
| calib17a | 06-01-2006 09:59 PM |
I'm running Apexi N1 Type V coilovers on 18" Work Emotions with Bridgestone S03's. Just ordered the strano today, should I cancel and just get the whitelines on ebay for $338 for 27mm front and 22mm rears?
| silver arrow | 06-01-2006 11:45 PM |
[QUOTE=calib17a]I'm running Apexi N1 Type V coilovers on 18" Work Emotions with Bridgestone S03's. Just ordered the strano today, should I cancel and just get the whitelines on ebay for $338 for 27mm front and 22mm rears?[/QUOTE]
Do you planon autocrossing?
Do you planon autocrossing?
| AndrewSS | 06-02-2006 12:08 AM |
I dunno - lol I used to have the WL bar - thats whats kinda funny... I am also considering going back to it... this really makes me nervous I would be pissed if my control arms broke... especially since other crap has been happening lately... wow!
| calib17a | 06-02-2006 01:05 AM |
Canceled my order.
| z3coupe | 06-02-2006 03:15 AM |
[QUOTE=calib17a]Canceled my order.[/QUOTE]I sure hope he don't blame me this time :lol:
| rankink | 06-02-2006 06:47 AM |
So, we have two cars with broken control arms. One STi and one WRX? Have I missed any more in this thread as it does not seem like a alarming amount at the moment.
| RedTRex | 06-02-2006 07:52 AM |
4 Total. (2 WRXs, 1 STI) - the other WRX is named in the DS thread under here (motorsports), and 1 WRX broke 2 arms on separate occasions.
Enough for it to be a trend for me ........
Enough for it to be a trend for me ........
| Impreza01 | 06-02-2006 08:14 AM |
[QUOTE=RedTRex]4 Total. (2 WRXs, 1 STI) - the other WRX is named in the DS thread under here (motorsports), and 1 WRX broke 2 arms on separate occasions.
Enough for it to be a trend for me ........[/QUOTE]
You mean 3 WRXs and 1 STi. Keep in mind, the 3 of the broken control arms were made from aluminum (2006 WRXs have the V7 STi control arms). 1 WRX is mentioned as a 2003 WRX with the standard steel control arms.
The broken steel control arm is mentioned in this thread in the Suspension forum:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1016740[/url]
Anyone have news on if the 27mm-29mm Whiteline FSB has been resulting in broken control arms?
Enough for it to be a trend for me ........[/QUOTE]
You mean 3 WRXs and 1 STi. Keep in mind, the 3 of the broken control arms were made from aluminum (2006 WRXs have the V7 STi control arms). 1 WRX is mentioned as a 2003 WRX with the standard steel control arms.
The broken steel control arm is mentioned in this thread in the Suspension forum:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1016740[/url]
Anyone have news on if the 27mm-29mm Whiteline FSB has been resulting in broken control arms?
| RedTRex | 06-02-2006 08:17 AM |
Yes....4 aluminum arms broken total.......:)
| Impreza01 | 06-02-2006 08:19 AM |
[QUOTE=RedTRex]Yes....4 aluminum arms broken total.......:)[/QUOTE]
Ok, so 4 aluminum arms (3 2006 WRX and 1 2005 STi) and 1 steel arm (1 2003 WRX). I guess the earlier thread of "if one can go too big in D-stock with a FSB" is coming down to reliability issues and tolerance limits.
Ok, so 4 aluminum arms (3 2006 WRX and 1 2005 STi) and 1 steel arm (1 2003 WRX). I guess the earlier thread of "if one can go too big in D-stock with a FSB" is coming down to reliability issues and tolerance limits.
| RedTRex | 06-02-2006 08:27 AM |
I am not sure where the broken steel one is mentioned, but I am aware of
4 broken Alum.....
1 in this thread, and
3 in the "06 ~ in DS" thread
4 broken Alum.....
1 in this thread, and
3 in the "06 ~ in DS" thread
| Impreza01 | 06-02-2006 08:35 AM |
[QUOTE=RedTRex]I am not sure where the broken steel one is mentioned, but I am aware of
4 broken Alum.....
1 in this thread, and
3 in the "06 ~ in DS" thread[/QUOTE]
:huh: Read my first response to this thread. The link's there.
4 broken Alum.....
1 in this thread, and
3 in the "06 ~ in DS" thread[/QUOTE]
:huh: Read my first response to this thread. The link's there.
| RedTRex | 06-02-2006 09:31 AM |
I see ...... you did a ninja edit on me.......;)
| xrocket21 | 06-02-2006 10:37 AM |
It looks to me like the broken conntrol arms may be the result of AS auto-x rules. If you run stock suspension, with r-comps, and a 32mm front bar, HUGE loads will be placed on that front bar.
| silver arrow | 06-02-2006 11:21 AM |
I'm running 10k/8k springs in STU. I'm hoping that the spring rates are helping me out.
| RedTRex | 06-02-2006 11:30 AM |
[QUOTE=xrocket21] If you run stock suspension, with r-comps, and a 32mm front bar, HUGE loads will be placed on that front bar.[/QUOTE]
Good work detective .............. :p
Good work detective .............. :p
| Draken | 06-02-2006 11:47 AM |
Simply because this is one of the best threads ever, I thought I would chime in again:
The Whiteline uses the stock endlink mounting design, i.e. a ball-socket connection that goes through the control arm tabs hole. As pictured below. Notice that no forces are being directed on the face of the tab, as the ball-socket design is allowed to rotate and twist under lateral forces.
[img] http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/2075000-2075999/2075362_19_full.jpg[/img]
Now, we have the Strano bar. It does away with the stock end link design, and uses a metal angle iron piece that gets bolted to the face of the control arm tab. Any/all compliance is accomplished through the rotation and flexing of the series of rubber bushings. Two interesting points:
Point 1: is that when the bar is unloaded, say inside wheel during hard cornering, it appears that the bushings are allowed to squish to such a degree, that the metal washers can come in contact with the angle iron bracket. If this happens, then quite a bit of force is being transmitted into the face of the tab.
Point 2: notice how all loading from the bar, and we are talking thousands and thousands of pounds of force here, is being transmitting into the metal bracket, at a point roughly 1 to 1.5 inches from the actual stock tab face. So a nice little lever arm, pesky devils, is being created, causing the forces on the stock mounting tab to be rather high.
Here are two pics, one showing with the bar loaded, one with the bar unloaded:
Loaded
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranoontheground.jpg[/img]
Unloaded
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/img]
I�ve always been curious why this hokey ass end link design was used. More curious, why not orient the �flattened� part of the bar 90-degrees compared to how it is. Then use a simple double ball-socket end link, adjustable for proper preloading?
Chris H.
The Whiteline uses the stock endlink mounting design, i.e. a ball-socket connection that goes through the control arm tabs hole. As pictured below. Notice that no forces are being directed on the face of the tab, as the ball-socket design is allowed to rotate and twist under lateral forces.
[img] http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/2075000-2075999/2075362_19_full.jpg[/img]
Now, we have the Strano bar. It does away with the stock end link design, and uses a metal angle iron piece that gets bolted to the face of the control arm tab. Any/all compliance is accomplished through the rotation and flexing of the series of rubber bushings. Two interesting points:
Point 1: is that when the bar is unloaded, say inside wheel during hard cornering, it appears that the bushings are allowed to squish to such a degree, that the metal washers can come in contact with the angle iron bracket. If this happens, then quite a bit of force is being transmitted into the face of the tab.
Point 2: notice how all loading from the bar, and we are talking thousands and thousands of pounds of force here, is being transmitting into the metal bracket, at a point roughly 1 to 1.5 inches from the actual stock tab face. So a nice little lever arm, pesky devils, is being created, causing the forces on the stock mounting tab to be rather high.
Here are two pics, one showing with the bar loaded, one with the bar unloaded:
Loaded
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranoontheground.jpg[/img]
Unloaded
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/img]
I�ve always been curious why this hokey ass end link design was used. More curious, why not orient the �flattened� part of the bar 90-degrees compared to how it is. Then use a simple double ball-socket end link, adjustable for proper preloading?
Chris H.
| GEARHEAD23 | 06-02-2006 12:49 PM |
Whiteline 27mm-29mm bar , stock endlinks, 6 months, 8 events, 44 autox runs,on Falken 615's with no problems at all.
| subieworx | 06-02-2006 02:08 PM |
Draken,
Puttiing it that way with the pics explains perfectly why the CA failures have occurred. That tab is obviously designed for forces along the face (vertically) not for lateral forces against it.
Puttiing it that way with the pics explains perfectly why the CA failures have occurred. That tab is obviously designed for forces along the face (vertically) not for lateral forces against it.
| P40vic | 06-02-2006 03:21 PM |
I was gonna chime in on this yesterday but I was hesitant until I saw Draken's post which is spot on. There are 2 issues here, one, the bar is much stiffer than stock so shear and torsion loads on the tab have to be much higher than stock, assuming that the bar attaches via a stock endlink, which it doesn't. Second, as Draken pointed out, the vertical forces of the bar act about 1.5" inboard of the tab, compared to maybe .5" for a typical endlink (guessing here), so the tab is going to see torsional loads 3 times higher than it would if the bar used normal endlinks. And this is not counting the higher bar force already mentioned.
If I were running one of these I'd be darn sure to put a thick steel backing plate on the nut side of the tab to distribute loads away from the hole. Still no guarantee that you won't shear or torque the tab off but you'll have a better chance if the loads are reduced at the hole.
Also, if this bar is similar in diameter to WL big bars, the effective stiffness of the WL is going to be higher, since the endlinks are further outboard on the lower arm.
Chris
If I were running one of these I'd be darn sure to put a thick steel backing plate on the nut side of the tab to distribute loads away from the hole. Still no guarantee that you won't shear or torque the tab off but you'll have a better chance if the loads are reduced at the hole.
Also, if this bar is similar in diameter to WL big bars, the effective stiffness of the WL is going to be higher, since the endlinks are further outboard on the lower arm.
Chris
| VpointVick | 06-02-2006 03:26 PM |
[QUOTE=P40vic]Also, if this bar is similar in diameter to WL big bars, the effective stiffness of the WL is going to be higher, since the endlinks are further outboard on the lower arm.
Chris[/QUOTE]
Don't open that whole "whose is stiffer" can of worms again.
The Strano bar is hollow 32mm OD, the biggest Whiteline is solid 27mm OD, but can be run with a shorter lever arm making it an effective 29mm. They should be about the same, stiffness wise.
Chris[/QUOTE]
Don't open that whole "whose is stiffer" can of worms again.
The Strano bar is hollow 32mm OD, the biggest Whiteline is solid 27mm OD, but can be run with a shorter lever arm making it an effective 29mm. They should be about the same, stiffness wise.
| AndrewSS | 06-02-2006 03:33 PM |
ugh.... ok well thanks for the posts guys, I appreciate the input - this is quite scary, I bought the bar knowing that it would be loud, and yeah possibly rub that steering rack bracket bolt (which it did) however, I didnt really realize that it would possibly start breaking control arms... yikes - I suppose thats the risk I take with this thing, I might wanna eliminate that risk... it probably wouldnt be worth it! Atleast im on street tires and I will be getting stiffer springs (nice new racecomp "custom" springs, when they come out).
Anyway, I gotta think about going back to the WL bar... lol I used to have it!
Anyway, I gotta think about going back to the WL bar... lol I used to have it!
| P40vic | 06-02-2006 03:49 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]Don't open that whole "whose is stiffer" can of worms again.
The Strano bar is hollow 32mm OD, the biggest Whiteline is solid 27mm OD, but can be run with a shorter lever arm making it an effective 29mm. They should be about the same, stiffness wise.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your comment with regard to the diameters, but I think you're missing my point. The effectiveness of springs or bars at the wheel is a function of the motion ratio squared, ie a small difference in the position of the mounting point on the arm can mean a substantial difference in stiffness at the wheel. Not knowing the exact dimensions of these two bars, I'll decline from further comment on how stiff they are ;)
Cheers,
Chris
The Strano bar is hollow 32mm OD, the biggest Whiteline is solid 27mm OD, but can be run with a shorter lever arm making it an effective 29mm. They should be about the same, stiffness wise.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your comment with regard to the diameters, but I think you're missing my point. The effectiveness of springs or bars at the wheel is a function of the motion ratio squared, ie a small difference in the position of the mounting point on the arm can mean a substantial difference in stiffness at the wheel. Not knowing the exact dimensions of these two bars, I'll decline from further comment on how stiff they are ;)
Cheers,
Chris
| VpointVick | 06-02-2006 03:58 PM |
[QUOTE=P40vic]Not knowing the exact dimensions of these two bars, I'll decline from further comment on how stiff they are ;)
Cheers,
Chris[/QUOTE]
That was my point.
This argument cropped up early on in this thread and went on for pages, and nobody ever came up with dimensions of the two bars so that they could be calc'ed.
Without more accurate data, I think the only safe thing to assume is that they should be ~similar~.
Cheers,
Chris[/QUOTE]
That was my point.
This argument cropped up early on in this thread and went on for pages, and nobody ever came up with dimensions of the two bars so that they could be calc'ed.
Without more accurate data, I think the only safe thing to assume is that they should be ~similar~.
| RedTRex | 06-02-2006 04:21 PM |
I think Draken is on the right track ........ they make the stock end links heim joint like for a reason........
| VpointVick | 06-02-2006 04:25 PM |
[QUOTE=Impreza01]You mean 3 WRXs and 1 STi. Keep in mind, the 3 of the broken control arms were made from aluminum (2006 WRXs have the V7 STi control arms). 1 WRX is mentioned as a 2003 WRX with the standard steel control arms.
The broken steel control arm is mentioned in this thread in the Suspension forum:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1016740[/url]
Anyone have news on if the 27mm-29mm Whiteline FSB has been resulting in broken control arms?[/QUOTE]
Dude in that thread just confirmed that he was told it was an aluminum CA that broke on the 02 WRX. Probably an STi replacement part.
The broken steel control arm is mentioned in this thread in the Suspension forum:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1016740[/url]
Anyone have news on if the 27mm-29mm Whiteline FSB has been resulting in broken control arms?[/QUOTE]
Dude in that thread just confirmed that he was told it was an aluminum CA that broke on the 02 WRX. Probably an STi replacement part.
| leecea | 06-02-2006 05:20 PM |
I don't think the lever arm theory is as simple as described. The force of the WL bar is transmitted tthrough its point of contact with the threaded stud in the top joint of the stock endlink, which is actually quite a good lateral and vertical distance from the tab. Even though the joints can flex, I believe there is still a twisting force on the tab that is proportional to the lateral distance from the end of the bar to the tab. From the pictures, I can't tell what that distance is.
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