| 007 | 10-01-2002 10:46 AM |
Actually i tried the "R2 Q-Rack" also.
They have few cars with the "R2" in them.
On the RS it is 2.4 lock-to-lock. And on the WRX it is 2.3 lock-to-lock.
What is really great, is the amount of R&D that went into this rack. It is very well designed, and assembled. They rebuild your original Rack with all new seals and gaskets, it is also cleaned and painted, or give you a brand new rack (optional...extra cost).
They can also make 2.05 lock-to-lock if you want, the only problem with the 2.05 is that it is a bit too fast for normal road driving. (hence only Race/Rally use)
The "R2 Q-Rack" is well balanced for race/street. It is very easy to drive at HWY speeds, and excelent at tossing the car arround. And it is a bit faster than the JDM RA rack.
Do not want to put anyone alse down or any bad comments but...
As for all others claiming that they have Fast steering racks for sale.... or they can get them....
This is the only one that is available right now.... on demand, as many as you want.
Try and order from someone alse, see when they will be able to get it, or what story will they give you. (perhaps used)
All i am saying is, it is a good product at less than 1/2 the cost of the Prodrive version. Let that speak for it self...
I already have mine "R2" in the works... oh yes, this weekend I will have fun !!!
007
They have few cars with the "R2" in them.
On the RS it is 2.4 lock-to-lock. And on the WRX it is 2.3 lock-to-lock.
What is really great, is the amount of R&D that went into this rack. It is very well designed, and assembled. They rebuild your original Rack with all new seals and gaskets, it is also cleaned and painted, or give you a brand new rack (optional...extra cost).
They can also make 2.05 lock-to-lock if you want, the only problem with the 2.05 is that it is a bit too fast for normal road driving. (hence only Race/Rally use)
The "R2 Q-Rack" is well balanced for race/street. It is very easy to drive at HWY speeds, and excelent at tossing the car arround. And it is a bit faster than the JDM RA rack.
Do not want to put anyone alse down or any bad comments but...
As for all others claiming that they have Fast steering racks for sale.... or they can get them....
This is the only one that is available right now.... on demand, as many as you want.
Try and order from someone alse, see when they will be able to get it, or what story will they give you. (perhaps used)
All i am saying is, it is a good product at less than 1/2 the cost of the Prodrive version. Let that speak for it self...
I already have mine "R2" in the works... oh yes, this weekend I will have fun !!!
007
| BIGSKYWRX | 11-20-2002 12:35 PM |
Dave,
Any more word on this? Seems like enough interest to pursue.
Thanks
Big Sky
Any more word on this? Seems like enough interest to pursue.
Thanks
Big Sky
| TractionCircle | 11-21-2002 01:37 PM |
Hey guys,
Just wanna check my facts.......
US WRX = 16.5:1 ratio, which equals 3.0 turns lock to lock
Rev Lab = ~1200USD, 12.65:1 ration which equals 2.3 turns lock to lock.
Does this sound accurate? If so, I may even pay 1200 for that kind of a ratio.
Someone please tell me I'm wrong before I write a $1200 check :)
Jay
Just wanna check my facts.......
US WRX = 16.5:1 ratio, which equals 3.0 turns lock to lock
Rev Lab = ~1200USD, 12.65:1 ration which equals 2.3 turns lock to lock.
Does this sound accurate? If so, I may even pay 1200 for that kind of a ratio.
Someone please tell me I'm wrong before I write a $1200 check :)
Jay
| Jon Bogert | 11-21-2002 02:34 PM |
I think the main cost issue is that, at $1000+, you start to get into the range where you could get a real hard core racing rack. As has been observed by many, it's a Subaru, not a Ferrari! A stock-quality replacement rack should cost well less than $1000. WELL less. Whichever vendor manages to navigate the treacherous waters of sourcing direct from the manufacturer in Japan will have a great market here.
And don't use a ridiculously priced Prodrive-sourced rack for comparison. You wouldn't comparison shop against a $15,000 a corner WRC suspension, would you?
So if it's worth paying that much to be the first on the block, yet you don't care about the details enough to want adjustable assist, heim joints or any of the other features that you should expect when paying top dollar, then go for it! :)
And don't use a ridiculously priced Prodrive-sourced rack for comparison. You wouldn't comparison shop against a $15,000 a corner WRC suspension, would you?
So if it's worth paying that much to be the first on the block, yet you don't care about the details enough to want adjustable assist, heim joints or any of the other features that you should expect when paying top dollar, then go for it! :)
| 007 | 11-24-2002 02:40 PM |
Jon, as much as i would like to agree with you about certain things such as the price or other posible sources, I can't.
You can NOT get a Qucik Rack from Japan or anywhere alse for that matter with this type of ration (besides Prodrive). Not even close. As for variable assit steering ??? that is controled by the pump, not the Rack. As for the STi RA rack, that is ONLY right hand drive at this time, and it is 2.7 from lock to lock - big difference. If you like you can order a new (right hand drive) one Directly from Japan, it costs about $ US 2000.00+ before shipping. I looked intio it.
As for Prodrive, the cost for a WRC rack is 3695.00 GBP
and for the GroupN rack it is 2895.00 GBP.... so if you convert that as of now you get:
"WRC rack" US $5834.00 ,
"GroupN" US $4571.00
Hmmmmmmm.............
I think that speeks for it self. Oh, you don't get anything with the Prodrive Rack but the Rack its self. No rod ends, nothing.
What it comes down to is, these guys have it, no one alse has it.!! Talk is cheap, product is worth every penny.
just my 2 cents worth.... :devil: :devil:
007
.
You can NOT get a Qucik Rack from Japan or anywhere alse for that matter with this type of ration (besides Prodrive). Not even close. As for variable assit steering ??? that is controled by the pump, not the Rack. As for the STi RA rack, that is ONLY right hand drive at this time, and it is 2.7 from lock to lock - big difference. If you like you can order a new (right hand drive) one Directly from Japan, it costs about $ US 2000.00+ before shipping. I looked intio it.
As for Prodrive, the cost for a WRC rack is 3695.00 GBP
and for the GroupN rack it is 2895.00 GBP.... so if you convert that as of now you get:
"WRC rack" US $5834.00 ,
"GroupN" US $4571.00
Hmmmmmmm.............
I think that speeks for it self. Oh, you don't get anything with the Prodrive Rack but the Rack its self. No rod ends, nothing.
What it comes down to is, these guys have it, no one alse has it.!! Talk is cheap, product is worth every penny.
just my 2 cents worth.... :devil: :devil:
007
.
| MattDell | 11-24-2002 11:02 PM |
Would you incur any Auto-X class changes for installing one of these?
| 007 | 11-24-2002 11:05 PM |
I don't think so... as long you don't tell anyone, no one will be able to tell by looking at it. Mine looks totaly stock.
007
007
| Jon Bogert | 11-24-2002 11:31 PM |
007, your Prodrive prices are off by almost 100%. As, in my opinion, is your assessment of the value of this product. If overpaying for something makes you happy, go for it.
I just hope the people who pay that much don't feel bad when an opportunistic vendor sources one for an appropriate price...
But again, this is just my opinion. There are people out there who spend $2000 for a set of wheels, too, and they sleep soundly with the certain knowledge that they are clever and discerning consumers. Whatever floats your boat. :lol:
I just hope the people who pay that much don't feel bad when an opportunistic vendor sources one for an appropriate price...
But again, this is just my opinion. There are people out there who spend $2000 for a set of wheels, too, and they sleep soundly with the certain knowledge that they are clever and discerning consumers. Whatever floats your boat. :lol:
| johnfelstead | 11-26-2002 08:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]mine is 2.25 turns with the standard TypeRA quickrack, which is the same as the 22B rack. [/B][/QUOTE]
think i said this before somewhere, ;) my STi5 Type RA steering rack is 2.25 turns, as fitted by the factory in japan.
[B]mine is 2.25 turns with the standard TypeRA quickrack, which is the same as the 22B rack. [/B][/QUOTE]
think i said this before somewhere, ;) my STi5 Type RA steering rack is 2.25 turns, as fitted by the factory in japan.
| BIGSKYWRX | 11-27-2002 11:42 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]
think i said this before somewhere, ;) my STi5 Type RA steering rack is 2.25 turns, as fitted by the factory in japan. [/B][/QUOTE]
I guess there are advantages to driving on the "wrong" side of the road:) .
[B]
think i said this before somewhere, ;) my STi5 Type RA steering rack is 2.25 turns, as fitted by the factory in japan. [/B][/QUOTE]
I guess there are advantages to driving on the "wrong" side of the road:) .
| johnfelstead | 11-27-2002 05:32 PM |
Works for me, it's great when the nation that makes our cars is wrong too, stops everyone else from getting their hands on our wrongly configured STi's, 22B's, RA's, S202's...... :lol:
| 007 | 11-27-2002 10:42 PM |
Jon,
If you could get me a WRC steering rack from Prodrive at 1/2 the cost that I said it was, I will take one. I have the pricelist from Prodrive, do you ??? As for your opinion, it is yours to do and say what you want. But don't talk if you haven't tried it (the product). I have.
As for "when an opportunistic vendor sources one for an appropriate price" good luck!!!. (as I said, no one else makes one). I have been in this sport for way too long to know what most people do and have available. (unfortunately most of the products available are all show, but with little or no actual performance parts, unless you go to race shops, and I don't mean "neon powder coated intake manifolds shops that call them self's race shops").
These guys made a good product, and the only one available at a decent price, too bad that you don't recognize that.
Just like you said, just my opinion.... but at least I have something to base it on !!
:) :) :) :)
007
If you could get me a WRC steering rack from Prodrive at 1/2 the cost that I said it was, I will take one. I have the pricelist from Prodrive, do you ??? As for your opinion, it is yours to do and say what you want. But don't talk if you haven't tried it (the product). I have.
As for "when an opportunistic vendor sources one for an appropriate price" good luck!!!. (as I said, no one else makes one). I have been in this sport for way too long to know what most people do and have available. (unfortunately most of the products available are all show, but with little or no actual performance parts, unless you go to race shops, and I don't mean "neon powder coated intake manifolds shops that call them self's race shops").
These guys made a good product, and the only one available at a decent price, too bad that you don't recognize that.
Just like you said, just my opinion.... but at least I have something to base it on !!
:) :) :) :)
007
| PURE EPI | 11-28-2002 08:09 AM |
[QUOTE]These guys made a good product, and the only one available at a decent price, too bad that you don't recognize that.[/QUOTE]
did I miss something here?? :confused:
and how did you get a prodrive pricelist? Damn you Britons!! :lol:
did I miss something here?? :confused:
and how did you get a prodrive pricelist? Damn you Britons!! :lol:
| 007 | 11-28-2002 08:49 AM |
I guess knowing the right people helps... ;) ;)
007
007
| aspera | 11-29-2002 08:21 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 007 [/i]
[B]I guess knowing the right people helps... ;) ;)
007 [/B][/QUOTE]
Did you get it from M or Q?:)
[B]I guess knowing the right people helps... ;) ;)
007 [/B][/QUOTE]
Did you get it from M or Q?:)
| Austin | 11-29-2002 08:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by aspera [/i]
[B]
Did you get it from M or Q?:) [/B][/QUOTE]You just [I]had[/I] to, didn't you...
[B]
Did you get it from M or Q?:) [/B][/QUOTE]You just [I]had[/I] to, didn't you...
| 007 | 11-29-2002 03:23 PM |
hheh hehehe hehe eh.....
Actually it was Octopussy ...
007
Actually it was Octopussy ...
007
| aspera | 11-29-2002 09:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Austin [/i]
[B]You just [I]had[/I] to, didn't you... [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, it seemed like a good way to subscribe to an interesting thread.
The most interesting thing about this thread is how much money people are willing to pay. I mean...it's a steering rack. For a couple of grand I's rather have a custom subframe built and use an OEM Porsche rack or something.
I'm also trying to get a handle on what kind of cars fast steering is suitable. Rally cars and Autocross cars would benefit, but I wouldn't want to give up so much high speed precision on a road car.
Maybe John Felstead could comment on the car being darty at higher speeds.
[B]You just [I]had[/I] to, didn't you... [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, it seemed like a good way to subscribe to an interesting thread.
The most interesting thing about this thread is how much money people are willing to pay. I mean...it's a steering rack. For a couple of grand I's rather have a custom subframe built and use an OEM Porsche rack or something.
I'm also trying to get a handle on what kind of cars fast steering is suitable. Rally cars and Autocross cars would benefit, but I wouldn't want to give up so much high speed precision on a road car.
Maybe John Felstead could comment on the car being darty at higher speeds.
| 007 | 11-29-2002 11:05 PM |
Aspera, I could give you a coment about the feel. The Q-Rack that i put in my car is a good balance between race/street. It is not too twitchy at high speeds, even my wife liked it. (read: she did not complain) I have used it on both HWY and dirt roads. They also make a quicker rack than the one I have, but that is only for race use. I tried the "Super Q-Rack" on one of the Rally cars they were working on, its great...., but not for day-to-day driving.
If you live in the Toronto area, i am sure they would let you try it...
007
If you live in the Toronto area, i am sure they would let you try it...
007
| GoodFinder | 11-30-2002 12:34 AM |
I'm certainly looking forward to upgrading the steering rack in my WRX!
GoodFinder :)
GoodFinder :)
| aspera | 11-30-2002 07:13 AM |
007, thanks for the review
PS. I just saw your movie tonight. Can I have your invisible car?:)
PS. I just saw your movie tonight. Can I have your invisible car?:)
| aspera | 11-30-2002 08:56 AM |
11:1 or 8.25:1!
[url]http://www.daymotorsports.com/product/368/c/9/[/url]
I found this thing. I don't know where you'd put it, but the idea is pretty clever. You just use the steering rack that you already have, but add this planetary reduction gear thingamabob to the system. Next thing you know you've got steering that's TWICE as quick. LOOKOUT! TREEEEEEEEEE!:)
I found this thing. I don't know where you'd put it, but the idea is pretty clever. You just use the steering rack that you already have, but add this planetary reduction gear thingamabob to the system. Next thing you know you've got steering that's TWICE as quick. LOOKOUT! TREEEEEEEEEE!:)
| 007 | 11-30-2002 09:36 AM |
Aspera
Yup, that's an old trick. But if I am not mistaken, it is illegal to use on the street, and I know it is illegal to use in most regulated "sanctioned" motorsport events.
When you put in your car, there are two ways of doing it. It depends what type of a car you have. Generally people cut the steering column and "splice" it in, near the firewall, either on the engine bay side, if you have space (older domestic cars…. That's what these "quickners" were designed for, before there was "modern" rack and pinion), also I have seen them on the inside, just below the dash board. Not a proper way of doing things for me, but a cool idea never less …
And you can have my invisible car, but I forgot where I parked it, and can't find it now……
007
Yup, that's an old trick. But if I am not mistaken, it is illegal to use on the street, and I know it is illegal to use in most regulated "sanctioned" motorsport events.
When you put in your car, there are two ways of doing it. It depends what type of a car you have. Generally people cut the steering column and "splice" it in, near the firewall, either on the engine bay side, if you have space (older domestic cars…. That's what these "quickners" were designed for, before there was "modern" rack and pinion), also I have seen them on the inside, just below the dash board. Not a proper way of doing things for me, but a cool idea never less …
And you can have my invisible car, but I forgot where I parked it, and can't find it now……
007
| Austin | 11-30-2002 11:08 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 007 [/i]
[B]But if I am not mistaken, it is illegal to use on the street
Not a proper way of doing things for me[/B][/QUOTE]Is it illegal just up in Canuck land, or are you saying you know it's illegal down here, too?
Why is it not a proper way of doing things? Seems that as long as you mount it securely enough (and as long as the planetaries are made well enough), it'd hold up.
[B]But if I am not mistaken, it is illegal to use on the street
Not a proper way of doing things for me[/B][/QUOTE]Is it illegal just up in Canuck land, or are you saying you know it's illegal down here, too?
Why is it not a proper way of doing things? Seems that as long as you mount it securely enough (and as long as the planetaries are made well enough), it'd hold up.
| aspera | 11-30-2002 12:07 PM |
Licensed to Ill
Shoot! Why is all the cool stuff illegal!?!
Hrmm, just have to invent around the rules...
Why not replace the hub adapter/steering wheel spacer/quick release that is used when an aftermarket steering wheel is installed? That would be a great place for a small planetary gearset. Of course it would be FRO (for race only).
Hrmm, just have to invent around the rules...
Why not replace the hub adapter/steering wheel spacer/quick release that is used when an aftermarket steering wheel is installed? That would be a great place for a small planetary gearset. Of course it would be FRO (for race only).
| Jon Bogert | 11-30-2002 05:09 PM |
Well, 007, I only know what I was quoted. Directly.
I do not have a current Prodrive pricelist, and I'm not sure that anyone on this board is shopping for Prodrive steering racks anyway. What they do want is a quick ratio steering rack for a reasonable price. I guess your employer's success in the marketplace will be determined by their assessment of that value.
BTW, 007, you talk like you think your opinion matters. Who are you? What's your C.V.? What makes your testimonial credible?
I do not have a current Prodrive pricelist, and I'm not sure that anyone on this board is shopping for Prodrive steering racks anyway. What they do want is a quick ratio steering rack for a reasonable price. I guess your employer's success in the marketplace will be determined by their assessment of that value.
BTW, 007, you talk like you think your opinion matters. Who are you? What's your C.V.? What makes your testimonial credible?
| 007 | 11-30-2002 10:46 PM |
Austin,
The legality of the "planetary gearing steering quickner" depends on the state that you live in, I do not and never have pretended to know all the rules. I just know in some "country's" or "states" it is illegal to cut your steering column. It is also not allowed in Rally Racing and many other motor sports either sanctioned by SCCA or other governing bodies. As for it being proper, that is only my opinion. I do not like to "patch" things just to make them seem to do what I want.
It comes down to "half a** job = half a** finish". Again my opinion. Do you really see any true professional racecar, whether it is F1, Rally racing, stock car……etc. using the planetary steering quickners??. NO you don't…. hence my point .
Aspera, that is a good question, I suppose it has to do with safety.
Jon, Jon, Jon.
I would love to know who quoted you the prices.
As for my employer, I work for a software developer. I do not work for Rev-Lab. I just have their product.
And as for "What makes your testimonial credible" as I said before, I have the product, tried it and use it a lot… you do not even have it !!
Please do not slam other persons product, unless you tried it first …
007
The legality of the "planetary gearing steering quickner" depends on the state that you live in, I do not and never have pretended to know all the rules. I just know in some "country's" or "states" it is illegal to cut your steering column. It is also not allowed in Rally Racing and many other motor sports either sanctioned by SCCA or other governing bodies. As for it being proper, that is only my opinion. I do not like to "patch" things just to make them seem to do what I want.
It comes down to "half a** job = half a** finish". Again my opinion. Do you really see any true professional racecar, whether it is F1, Rally racing, stock car……etc. using the planetary steering quickners??. NO you don't…. hence my point .
Aspera, that is a good question, I suppose it has to do with safety.
Jon, Jon, Jon.
I would love to know who quoted you the prices.
As for my employer, I work for a software developer. I do not work for Rev-Lab. I just have their product.
And as for "What makes your testimonial credible" as I said before, I have the product, tried it and use it a lot… you do not even have it !!
Please do not slam other persons product, unless you tried it first …
007
| aspera | 12-01-2002 12:09 AM |
I talk like I know my opinion doesn't matter.
I'm starting to think that this isn't the real James Bond.:)
Dude, you really should tone it down a bit. James Bond wouldn't say "you do not even have it !!". Trust me, I've seen the movies. :)
Back to the rack...
Ideally, the rack would take care of all ratio problems. That's how it's done in most racecars. The racecars you mentioned also have huge budgets.
The steering quickner is also used in racecars. These cars are built on a much lower budgets. It's easy to look down on dirt track cars, but a lot of the parts that they use are pretty solid. A dirt tracker needs quick steering to drift around an unpaved corner in control. That's why rally cars need it too. You'd see a lot more circle track parts showing up on Import cars if they were metric.
Dude, you really should tone it down a bit. James Bond wouldn't say "you do not even have it !!". Trust me, I've seen the movies. :)
Back to the rack...
Ideally, the rack would take care of all ratio problems. That's how it's done in most racecars. The racecars you mentioned also have huge budgets.
The steering quickner is also used in racecars. These cars are built on a much lower budgets. It's easy to look down on dirt track cars, but a lot of the parts that they use are pretty solid. A dirt tracker needs quick steering to drift around an unpaved corner in control. That's why rally cars need it too. You'd see a lot more circle track parts showing up on Import cars if they were metric.
| Boeleni | 12-01-2002 03:29 AM |
Hi Guys. We havn't chimed in about our rack because last time we did Subie Gal locked our thread :) I guess she forgot that we were one of the vendors that got lost in the "pay or leave" regime, even after we donated a shortshifter for an i-club fundraising raffle.
Anyway, we applied for our vendor status, and Nick says it will be active December 1st. Please look for a post on our steering rack in the classified forums soon. And check out our website for our endlinks, pulleys, and shortshifters and for a demo video of the rack. Those that have purchased from us before can vouch for the quality of our product.
Arthur
[url]www.rev-lab.com[/url]
Anyway, we applied for our vendor status, and Nick says it will be active December 1st. Please look for a post on our steering rack in the classified forums soon. And check out our website for our endlinks, pulleys, and shortshifters and for a demo video of the rack. Those that have purchased from us before can vouch for the quality of our product.
Arthur
[url]www.rev-lab.com[/url]
| Tony | 12-01-2002 10:03 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Cobreth [/i]
[B]Would you incur any Auto-X class changes for installing one of these? [/B][/QUOTE]
According to the SCCA Auto-X rules a quick rack bumps you out of every class excpet for Prepared or Modified. So no Stock, Street Prepared, Street Touring or Street Modified.
Tony
[B]Would you incur any Auto-X class changes for installing one of these? [/B][/QUOTE]
According to the SCCA Auto-X rules a quick rack bumps you out of every class excpet for Prepared or Modified. So no Stock, Street Prepared, Street Touring or Street Modified.
Tony
| JaiMak | 12-04-2002 11:14 AM |
[QUOTE]What they do want is a quick ratio steering rack for a reasonable price.[/QUOTE]
Jon,
I can appreciate you're opinion of what a quick steering rack goes for, and we can admit that ours is not cheap. However, it is the only 13:1 LHD steering rack manufactured on these shores at the moment.
To justify the price, I'll say this. We haven't sold many of these as the rack is brand new. We did however invest a lot of time, effort and money developing and testing the rack to be a good, solid product. After we recoup some development costs I'm sure the price will go to under $1000 USD eventually, but for the time being it is what it is.
I don't think it is fair to accuse 007 of "overpaying" for our product, which in turn accuses us of "overcharging" and I'd appreciate you not doing that.
That being said, you the consumer have every right to shop around, we are not forcing anyone to buy these. Some try it out and see the value in this rack and decide to get one. Even if it is not cheap, for the amount of work we put into it and compared to what other racks go for we certainly believe it is fair.
James McIntosh
[url]www.Rev-Lab.com[/url]
Jon,
I can appreciate you're opinion of what a quick steering rack goes for, and we can admit that ours is not cheap. However, it is the only 13:1 LHD steering rack manufactured on these shores at the moment.
To justify the price, I'll say this. We haven't sold many of these as the rack is brand new. We did however invest a lot of time, effort and money developing and testing the rack to be a good, solid product. After we recoup some development costs I'm sure the price will go to under $1000 USD eventually, but for the time being it is what it is.
I don't think it is fair to accuse 007 of "overpaying" for our product, which in turn accuses us of "overcharging" and I'd appreciate you not doing that.
That being said, you the consumer have every right to shop around, we are not forcing anyone to buy these. Some try it out and see the value in this rack and decide to get one. Even if it is not cheap, for the amount of work we put into it and compared to what other racks go for we certainly believe it is fair.
James McIntosh
[url]www.Rev-Lab.com[/url]
| Jon Bogert | 12-04-2002 12:53 PM |
Hi James, since you guys have done the legwork, maybe you can shed some light on the economics here.
Assuming you are reusing stock components wherever possible but replacing seals and any other wear items, what specific components need to be fabricated to convert a normal rack into a quick ratio rack? I assume the rack itself and the pinion gear, right? Anything else?
Specifically, are there any new parts specific to the Subaru application that you would not find in a cheapo manual steering rack such as are available for Golfs and Escorts for $200-300 (for a complete rack, <$100 for the new rack and pinion alone)? Those prices are fully marked up retail, BTW. I'm not saying the parts are interchangable, just that somebody out there has managed to source the requisite machine work for a really good price compared to you guys.
Unless, of course, you're getting an offensive markup... but you assured us that you're not. :)
If you've got the design, why not contract with someone much less expensive (like Tecrac) to do the work? I bet every Impreza owner on this Forum would buy a $100 r&p...
Assuming you are reusing stock components wherever possible but replacing seals and any other wear items, what specific components need to be fabricated to convert a normal rack into a quick ratio rack? I assume the rack itself and the pinion gear, right? Anything else?
Specifically, are there any new parts specific to the Subaru application that you would not find in a cheapo manual steering rack such as are available for Golfs and Escorts for $200-300 (for a complete rack, <$100 for the new rack and pinion alone)? Those prices are fully marked up retail, BTW. I'm not saying the parts are interchangable, just that somebody out there has managed to source the requisite machine work for a really good price compared to you guys.
Unless, of course, you're getting an offensive markup... but you assured us that you're not. :)
If you've got the design, why not contract with someone much less expensive (like Tecrac) to do the work? I bet every Impreza owner on this Forum would buy a $100 r&p...
| PURE EPI | 12-04-2002 02:19 PM |
I would... :D
| gr8wheels | 12-04-2002 07:56 PM |
Group Buy
Do I hear a 10 person group buy for $900 each!
I am a sales and marketing Guy! And here is the big picture! There are 2 ways to recoup R&D 1.) charge enough to cover the r&d sell a few and then drop price! This can be slow and painful! 2.) Shot gun a group at market rate! Get them out tell friends they multiply as demand goes up raise your prices! Amazon just turned a profit! We make police products! If we did not sell a large group to a few police depts! for a low entry price! We would never penatrate the market!
Products are like Rabits get them out and they will multiply!!
my 2 cents:D :)
I am a sales and marketing Guy! And here is the big picture! There are 2 ways to recoup R&D 1.) charge enough to cover the r&d sell a few and then drop price! This can be slow and painful! 2.) Shot gun a group at market rate! Get them out tell friends they multiply as demand goes up raise your prices! Amazon just turned a profit! We make police products! If we did not sell a large group to a few police depts! for a low entry price! We would never penatrate the market!
Products are like Rabits get them out and they will multiply!!
my 2 cents:D :)
| Austin | 12-04-2002 09:16 PM |
Really!!! That! is Amazing! You! are a! Sales! and Marketing! Guy!
| aspera | 12-05-2002 06:25 PM |
Rabits are rabbits I'm assuming
Exclamation points are like Rabits get them out and they will multiply!!
my 4 cents
my 4 cents
| gr8wheels | 12-05-2002 07:15 PM |
cents
I see your 4 cents and raise you 4 that my 8 cents worth:D
| BIGSKYWRX | 12-05-2002 08:39 PM |
I'll Dave a call, it's pretty apparent he isn't watching this thread.
Big Sky
Big Sky
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-06-2002 12:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BIGSKYWRX [/i]
[B]I'll Dave a call[/B][/QUOTE]
Hello,
funny That is.
Joel
[B]I'll Dave a call[/B][/QUOTE]
Hello,
funny That is.
Joel
| BIGSKYWRX | 12-06-2002 12:34 AM |
give:)
| Karl S. | 12-11-2002 06:06 PM |
Jon,
I have been following this thread for a long time now, and the only thing that I have noticed from you is complaining how much this Q-Rack cost. Also, as for what are the components that have been changed and/or modified on the Q-Rack, well, that is the "development property" (patent pending) of Rev-Lab and Rallitec. You can not actually think that someone would tell you how they make their invention/modification to a existing product, now do you ?? Sorry….
You keep mentioning that someone can do it cheaper, well why don't you do your research and than voice your opinion. As "007" said, Rev-Lab and Rallitec have the product, no one else has it at this time.
As for the price, there is a limited time/quantity offer available from Rev-Lab at this time.
See the post in the "Vendor for Sale" section. They are offering a special right now.
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=286958[/url]
Karl S. :alien: :alien:
I have been following this thread for a long time now, and the only thing that I have noticed from you is complaining how much this Q-Rack cost. Also, as for what are the components that have been changed and/or modified on the Q-Rack, well, that is the "development property" (patent pending) of Rev-Lab and Rallitec. You can not actually think that someone would tell you how they make their invention/modification to a existing product, now do you ?? Sorry….
You keep mentioning that someone can do it cheaper, well why don't you do your research and than voice your opinion. As "007" said, Rev-Lab and Rallitec have the product, no one else has it at this time.
As for the price, there is a limited time/quantity offer available from Rev-Lab at this time.
See the post in the "Vendor for Sale" section. They are offering a special right now.
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=286958[/url]
Karl S. :alien: :alien:
| Jon Bogert | 12-11-2002 09:58 PM |
Is this a different Karl from Toronto than 007, who's also apparently named Karl from Toronto?
Anyway, "now do I"??? :lol:
Well, yes, I think I do. It's a steering rack from a mass produced Japanese car, not a nuclear reactor...
The non-answer is answer enough. The best protected industrial secrets are those that conceal just how cheap and easy it is to produce something. :cool:
Anyway, "now do I"??? :lol:
Well, yes, I think I do. It's a steering rack from a mass produced Japanese car, not a nuclear reactor...
The non-answer is answer enough. The best protected industrial secrets are those that conceal just how cheap and easy it is to produce something. :cool:
| Karl S. | 12-11-2002 10:22 PM |
Jon,
Yup, I am different. Should of put Mississauga. But we did a rack for a guy named Karl also, one of our first customers. Sorry for the confusion.
Not a nuclear reactor, but still the only ones, so get over it.
Happy driving Jon
Karl S.
PS: I am beggining to suspect that you have something against us. ;)
Yup, I am different. Should of put Mississauga. But we did a rack for a guy named Karl also, one of our first customers. Sorry for the confusion.
Not a nuclear reactor, but still the only ones, so get over it.
Happy driving Jon
Karl S.
PS: I am beggining to suspect that you have something against us. ;)
| Austin | 12-11-2002 10:28 PM |
Nuclear reactors have big manuals than go in-depth on how they were designed, how they were built, and how to operate them.
I wish you would just answer Jon's questions.
I wish you would just answer Jon's questions.
| Karl S. | 12-11-2002 10:50 PM |
Austin,
Sure, I can do a write up on how we designed it, tested it, basically all of the R&D. But would that change someone's opinion, probably, probably not. Now you will probably call us (me) stuck up or what ever, but I /we spent a lot of money, time, testing and developing this rack, so for me to give you all the information as how we did it and how it is constructed for free is out of the question (pay me enough, and I will). I can tell you all the technical specs if you are interested, so you can judge for you self of any safety issues and the quality of the materials we are using.
If you are interested or just curious, come over and we can show you the Q-rack. You may also test drive one of the test vehicles to judge for your self.
Consider this, if it was that easy and cheap to develop, there would have been aftermarket quick racks available for a long time.
Karl S.
Sure, I can do a write up on how we designed it, tested it, basically all of the R&D. But would that change someone's opinion, probably, probably not. Now you will probably call us (me) stuck up or what ever, but I /we spent a lot of money, time, testing and developing this rack, so for me to give you all the information as how we did it and how it is constructed for free is out of the question (pay me enough, and I will). I can tell you all the technical specs if you are interested, so you can judge for you self of any safety issues and the quality of the materials we are using.
If you are interested or just curious, come over and we can show you the Q-rack. You may also test drive one of the test vehicles to judge for your self.
Consider this, if it was that easy and cheap to develop, there would have been aftermarket quick racks available for a long time.
Karl S.
| Schwabe | 12-11-2002 11:58 PM |
What's with all the bickering in this thread? If you like it, buy it; if you don't, then don't.
I did a test drive with the Q-Rack, and now have one in my car. I have driven it on highways and in the twisties, on pavement, gravel and snow. I absolutely love this thing. It's much quicker than stock, yet very driveable at highway speeds.
If you're interested, I can only endorse it.
If you don't have the money for it, start saving, but stop bitching about it being too expensive. If you can do it cheaper - go for it.
I did a test drive with the Q-Rack, and now have one in my car. I have driven it on highways and in the twisties, on pavement, gravel and snow. I absolutely love this thing. It's much quicker than stock, yet very driveable at highway speeds.
If you're interested, I can only endorse it.
If you don't have the money for it, start saving, but stop bitching about it being too expensive. If you can do it cheaper - go for it.
| aspera | 12-12-2002 12:47 AM |
I feel like a Southerner in this crowd y'all!:) It would be cheaper for me to buy a Q-rack sight unseen than to stop by and try it out for myself.
I might be better off getting a smaller steering wheel. That would quicken up steering just a bit, but in a different way. I guess it would be lighter too. That reminds me...what are the steering shafts made of? Do you think they can be replaced with lighter weight material? I don't mean to steer the thread off course, I'm just curious.
Y'all have a Merry Christmas up there in the frozen north.
I might be better off getting a smaller steering wheel. That would quicken up steering just a bit, but in a different way. I guess it would be lighter too. That reminds me...what are the steering shafts made of? Do you think they can be replaced with lighter weight material? I don't mean to steer the thread off course, I'm just curious.
Y'all have a Merry Christmas up there in the frozen north.
| Jon Bogert | 12-12-2002 10:36 AM |
[QUOTE](patent pending)[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, I must have missed that the first time. You guys really applied for a patent? What's the number? Or is that just marketing spin?
[QUOTE]PS: I am beggining to suspect that you have something against us.[/QUOTE]
All I know about you or this product is what you posted here. I don't believe we've ever met, have we? Certainly not personal if that's what you mean. Every once in a while, I see something posted here that really makes no sense to me. Like the wavy steel cross-drilled brake rotors. The Amsoil shills holding a love-in in the Service Forum. Or a $1500 steering rack.
[QUOTE]If you don't have the money for it, start saving, but stop bitching about it being too expensive.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's the thing. We don't really know if it's too expensive or not. The available evidence would lead to the conclusion that it's overpriced by somewhere between 100-300%. I asked for some actual indication that this isn't a case of, "we're first, so we got you by the balls" pricing, but none has been forthcoming. You know, industrial secrets and all that. ;) I spend way too much money on rallying and car stuff as it is, so I try to be at least a little bit discerning.
Oh yeah, I must have missed that the first time. You guys really applied for a patent? What's the number? Or is that just marketing spin?
[QUOTE]PS: I am beggining to suspect that you have something against us.[/QUOTE]
All I know about you or this product is what you posted here. I don't believe we've ever met, have we? Certainly not personal if that's what you mean. Every once in a while, I see something posted here that really makes no sense to me. Like the wavy steel cross-drilled brake rotors. The Amsoil shills holding a love-in in the Service Forum. Or a $1500 steering rack.
[QUOTE]If you don't have the money for it, start saving, but stop bitching about it being too expensive.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's the thing. We don't really know if it's too expensive or not. The available evidence would lead to the conclusion that it's overpriced by somewhere between 100-300%. I asked for some actual indication that this isn't a case of, "we're first, so we got you by the balls" pricing, but none has been forthcoming. You know, industrial secrets and all that. ;) I spend way too much money on rallying and car stuff as it is, so I try to be at least a little bit discerning.
| Jon Bogert | 12-12-2002 11:25 AM |
Hmm, Karl S. from Mississauga. You're not Karl Sprongl by any chance are you? (I love aliases--they make conversation so much more... speculative. :rolleyes: )
| minime | 12-12-2002 11:53 AM |
Jon Bogert,
I don't know you, and I hope I never will.... is it that time of a month for ya, or what --- complain, complain, complain, how the heck does someone put up with you, man-o-man, I feel sorry for ya. (and the people around you)
BUDY, get a life!!
I know who Karl is, and he has been involved in Rally since the early '80s. You think you spend money... you have no clue as to what spending money on a Rally car is if you think the Q-Rack is expensive.
You said:
" We don't really know if it's too expensive or not. The available evidence would lead to the conclusion that it's overpriced by somewhere between 100-300%"
Who is we ??
Whos' conclusion ??
What's your available evidence???
The only evidence, as some one said, is, there is only one available, and it is from Prodrive, at 3-4 times what the cost is from Rev-Lab. (we are talking for Subaru here, are we NOT ?, not other brands!!!) So crawl up from under a rock, or go complain how dark it is to someone else.
I think you are just jelous, or perhaps you don't have the brains and means to do what these guys did. So, go buy a "Tempo" and stop compaining.
Who cares if it makes sense to you, fortunately your opinion is NOT worth much, as you have not seen or tested the product.
Dr. Evil
I don't know you, and I hope I never will.... is it that time of a month for ya, or what --- complain, complain, complain, how the heck does someone put up with you, man-o-man, I feel sorry for ya. (and the people around you)
BUDY, get a life!!
I know who Karl is, and he has been involved in Rally since the early '80s. You think you spend money... you have no clue as to what spending money on a Rally car is if you think the Q-Rack is expensive.
You said:
" We don't really know if it's too expensive or not. The available evidence would lead to the conclusion that it's overpriced by somewhere between 100-300%"
Who is we ??
Whos' conclusion ??
What's your available evidence???
The only evidence, as some one said, is, there is only one available, and it is from Prodrive, at 3-4 times what the cost is from Rev-Lab. (we are talking for Subaru here, are we NOT ?, not other brands!!!) So crawl up from under a rock, or go complain how dark it is to someone else.
I think you are just jelous, or perhaps you don't have the brains and means to do what these guys did. So, go buy a "Tempo" and stop compaining.
Who cares if it makes sense to you, fortunately your opinion is NOT worth much, as you have not seen or tested the product.
Dr. Evil
| Jon Bogert | 12-12-2002 11:58 AM |
Oh well, there goes the thread. :rolleyes:
Karl, if you want to chat, PM me.
Karl, if you want to chat, PM me.
| Skyline | 12-12-2002 01:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by minime [/i]
[B]Jon Bogert,
I don't know you, and I hope I never will....[/B][/QUOTE]
What the heck is up with these people coming out of the woodwork saying this and that when Jon's asking some interesting and LEGITIMATE questions?
I for one want to know more about this rack, and why it's $1500. Answer the man's questions or don't post! You're not contributing anything!
:mad:
Btw, IMHO, Jon Bogert has earned respect in these forums. You sir, have not, and will not.
[B]Jon Bogert,
I don't know you, and I hope I never will....[/B][/QUOTE]
What the heck is up with these people coming out of the woodwork saying this and that when Jon's asking some interesting and LEGITIMATE questions?
I for one want to know more about this rack, and why it's $1500. Answer the man's questions or don't post! You're not contributing anything!
:mad:
Btw, IMHO, Jon Bogert has earned respect in these forums. You sir, have not, and will not.
| Ver.III | 12-12-2002 11:34 PM |
:rolleyes:
| thebusiness999 | 12-13-2002 12:13 AM |
In a desperate attempt to save this thread...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Schwabe [/i]
[B]I did a test drive with the Q-Rack, and now have one in my car. I have driven it on highways and in the twisties, on pavement, gravel and snow. I absolutely love this thing. It's much quicker than stock, yet very driveable at highway speeds.
If you're interested, I can only endorse it.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm already set that this will be the next big modification to my car after my ECU reflash...I have a couple questions though:
007 and Schwabe- Which ratio are you using, 13:1 or 12.5:1? Are there ANY downsides or regrets after doing this modification?
Rev-Lab guys- Which ratio has been more popular for your WRX customers and why? I'm having trouble deciding what would be better...The car is daily driven on both streets and highways, but I spend lots of time spent driving in the canyons for fun, some track days, fun off the road, and the ocassional rally-x. Is the 12.5:1 a good choice for me?
Thanks for your help,
Paul
[B]I did a test drive with the Q-Rack, and now have one in my car. I have driven it on highways and in the twisties, on pavement, gravel and snow. I absolutely love this thing. It's much quicker than stock, yet very driveable at highway speeds.
If you're interested, I can only endorse it.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm already set that this will be the next big modification to my car after my ECU reflash...I have a couple questions though:
007 and Schwabe- Which ratio are you using, 13:1 or 12.5:1? Are there ANY downsides or regrets after doing this modification?
Rev-Lab guys- Which ratio has been more popular for your WRX customers and why? I'm having trouble deciding what would be better...The car is daily driven on both streets and highways, but I spend lots of time spent driving in the canyons for fun, some track days, fun off the road, and the ocassional rally-x. Is the 12.5:1 a good choice for me?
Thanks for your help,
Paul
| Schwabe | 12-13-2002 09:46 AM |
Hi Paul,
I have the 12.5:1, which I think is the way to go unless you use your car predominantly for competition.
So far I have no regrets at all. It will take you about 5 minutes and a few corners to get used to the new rack, but after that it's great. When traveling at speed on the highway (which we're not allowed to do anyway on this side of the ocean) you'll need to be a little more cautious with your steering input, or you'll change lanes quickly.:lol:
Seriously though, I think it's a great rack, and so far I have not found any downsides to it. If that changes, I'll let you know.
btw. in case this is of interest, I have a MY00 2.5RS
I have the 12.5:1, which I think is the way to go unless you use your car predominantly for competition.
So far I have no regrets at all. It will take you about 5 minutes and a few corners to get used to the new rack, but after that it's great. When traveling at speed on the highway (which we're not allowed to do anyway on this side of the ocean) you'll need to be a little more cautious with your steering input, or you'll change lanes quickly.:lol:
Seriously though, I think it's a great rack, and so far I have not found any downsides to it. If that changes, I'll let you know.
btw. in case this is of interest, I have a MY00 2.5RS
| BIGSKYWRX | 12-13-2002 12:04 PM |
I was starting to feel guilty reviing this thread:rolleyes: , maybe it's salvagable.
12.5 is definitely quick (compared to oe 16.5:1), I'm wondering if it's too quick for real world driving- I think the option of 13:1 may be more appealing for your "average joe". Any chance of reoffering the the 13:1 or is there too much work (maybe not enough demand?)?
Thanks
Big Sky
12.5 is definitely quick (compared to oe 16.5:1), I'm wondering if it's too quick for real world driving- I think the option of 13:1 may be more appealing for your "average joe". Any chance of reoffering the the 13:1 or is there too much work (maybe not enough demand?)?
Thanks
Big Sky
| Schwabe | 12-13-2002 01:59 PM |
Hehehe, don't worry BIGSKYWRX, I'm just an average Joe. No worries. :D
| Karl S. | 12-13-2002 11:30 PM |
Big Sky,
There is no 13.1:1 , that was only an experimental one. The one that is available at this time is 12.5:1. That is about 2.3 turns from lock-to-lock.
Karl S.
There is no 13.1:1 , that was only an experimental one. The one that is available at this time is 12.5:1. That is about 2.3 turns from lock-to-lock.
Karl S.
| aspera | 12-14-2002 12:49 PM |
Stop complaining and go find a dictionary, BUDY!:)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by minime [/i]
[B] So, go buy a "Tempo" and stop compaining.
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the last straw! Nobody badmouths the Tempo!:)
Seriously, I'd like to see some steering ratios of other cars that are similar in size to the Impreza. For instance, what are the steering ratios of some of the EVOs?
[B] So, go buy a "Tempo" and stop compaining.
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the last straw! Nobody badmouths the Tempo!:)
Seriously, I'd like to see some steering ratios of other cars that are similar in size to the Impreza. For instance, what are the steering ratios of some of the EVOs?
| Gerry | 12-14-2002 04:17 PM |
I think the price your asking is kinda crazy also...Compared to the manual steering rack I bought for $100..I did have to customise the spline to make it work but works fine..I also ordered another rack from Demon Tweeks..I should have it soon to compare.Maybe i'll offer these for sale after I do some R&D ;).I need no patents either..Any info I find will be free also....They should probally be around $3-400..Maybe less...Gerry
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[IMG]http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=1184666[/IMG]
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