| ricochet | 10-05-2004 03:20 PM |
SCCA kills rally program
�
�
D'oh!
[url]http://www.drivingsports.com/a/templates/?a=43&z=1[/url]
[url]http://www.drivingsports.com/a/templates/?a=43&z=1[/url]
| KC | 10-05-2004 03:30 PM |
"We are in negotiations to transition SCCA�s elements of the stage-based rally activity to Rally America, a longtime partner and participant in the sport of rally"
Now the SCCA can move aside and let things happen... hopefully. :)
Now the SCCA can move aside and let things happen... hopefully. :)
| dch | 10-05-2004 03:39 PM |
Oh it's far from dead. Now the real work begins...
Cheers,
-Doug
Cheers,
-Doug
| Jon Bogert | 10-05-2004 03:48 PM |
[QUOTE=dch]Oh it's far from dead. Now the real work begins...[/QUOTE]Spoken like a guy who's got a lot more wrapped up in it than most of us. ;)
| MNbiker | 10-05-2004 03:53 PM |
Hopefully, this will all work itself out for the better in the long run.
For the short-term, it leaves me in a lurch, as our EM for the autox this weekend resigned his position with the SCCA, upon hearing the announcement. Me thinks rally-centric SCCA Regions (like mine) are going to take a big hit as a result of this move.
-Steve
For the short-term, it leaves me in a lurch, as our EM for the autox this weekend resigned his position with the SCCA, upon hearing the announcement. Me thinks rally-centric SCCA Regions (like mine) are going to take a big hit as a result of this move.
-Steve
| PHATsuby | 10-05-2004 03:53 PM |
dch-you have a yellow STi? i havent seen you around MN, have you hung out with the subaru crew on university? you should:)
Ben
Ben
| MNbiker | 10-05-2004 03:59 PM |
[QUOTE=PHATsuby]dch-you have a yellow STi? i havent seen you around MN, have you hung out with the subaru crew on university? you should:)
Ben[/QUOTE]
Doug's STi tends to spend most of it's time playing in the dirt! ;)
Ben[/QUOTE]
Doug's STi tends to spend most of it's time playing in the dirt! ;)
| Tizzle | 10-05-2004 04:00 PM |
huh, Interesting news
| ricochet | 10-05-2004 04:03 PM |
I actually think this could be good for the sport. Still, re-orienting could end up being a bit of a mess.
| dch | 10-05-2004 04:07 PM |
Oiy! I don't drive the rally car on the roads any more than I have to. Too noisey, too hard to see what's behind/beside me, too much risk of wrinkling the car due to no fault of my own. Plus I'm going to be extra busy for a while... :D
Cheers,
-Doug
Cheers,
-Doug
| PHATsuby | 10-05-2004 04:10 PM |
thats ok, roll out in the daily driver sometime:) you gonna be busy rallying? sweetness.
Ben
Ben
| rogue | 10-05-2004 04:13 PM |
[url]http://www.scca.com/News/News.asp[/url]
Whee.
Hope we don't lose the whole sport. Stupid americans. :)
Whee.
Hope we don't lose the whole sport. Stupid americans. :)
| 10th Warrior | 10-05-2004 04:16 PM |
i'd heard this may very well happen last week. its still a tough pill to swallow. it does make me wonder if i should continue to sink time and money into the Golf though. i guess i should have brought this up with Kim on Sunday, but Doug, or anybody else who might be in the know, will the 04 CRNC still happen as scheduled. Its in February, its under 04 rules, and IIRC the insurance cycle restarts March 1, so maybe? eh, i'm just thinking out loud. time to make some phone calls.
| zoomfactor | 10-05-2004 04:28 PM |
"...due to increasing risk exposure..."
Legal liability once again rears its ugly head :rolleyes:
[QUOTE]Hope we don't lose the whole sport. Stupid lawsuit-happy americans.[/QUOTE] ...fixed it for you:)
Legal liability once again rears its ugly head :rolleyes:
[QUOTE]Hope we don't lose the whole sport. Stupid lawsuit-happy americans.[/QUOTE] ...fixed it for you:)
| mykrrrr | 10-05-2004 04:34 PM |
Good luck to the future governing body of rally in the United States. :)
Perhaps rally will get it's fair shake out of this. :D
-mykr.
Perhaps rally will get it's fair shake out of this. :D
-mykr.
| Chromer | 10-05-2004 04:47 PM |
NASA has already come out with a statement that they will continue to sanction events in '05. That was fast. Internet time is weird sometimes...
Guess I need to DL the NASA rulebook now.
I wonder what will happen to the NER rallycross series in '05? I was planning on running the whole series next year. :mad:
Guess I need to DL the NASA rulebook now.
I wonder what will happen to the NER rallycross series in '05? I was planning on running the whole series next year. :mad:
| driggity | 10-05-2004 04:49 PM |
According to the Press Release the SCCA rallycross events won't be affected.
| Kha0S | 10-05-2004 04:50 PM |
[QUOTE=dch]Oh it's far from dead. Now the real work begins...
[/QUOTE]
If you guys need some muscle in the New England area, you know who to call.
I'm very, very excited to see RA step up to the plate on this one, and I know that there's a bunch of us up here in The Other White North who'd love to help.
/Andrew
[/QUOTE]
If you guys need some muscle in the New England area, you know who to call.
I'm very, very excited to see RA step up to the plate on this one, and I know that there's a bunch of us up here in The Other White North who'd love to help.
/Andrew
| Chromer | 10-05-2004 04:58 PM |
[QUOTE=driggity]According to the Press Release the SCCA rallycross events won't be affected.[/QUOTE]
Whups, yeah. Missed that. That's kind of weird given Rallycross is a chapter of the Performance Rally rulebook.
Whups, yeah. Missed that. That's kind of weird given Rallycross is a chapter of the Performance Rally rulebook.
| mike270 | 10-05-2004 04:58 PM |
Good luck Doug. I hope you get something going for next year. :( I'm still looking forward to going to the Cog Rally again next year. :(
I will support whatever happens for next years rally series.
I will support whatever happens for next years rally series.
| Subie Gal | 10-05-2004 05:16 PM |
[i] please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE [/i] [b]dont raise the fees......[/b]
they are bad enough as it is :(
they are bad enough as it is :(
| ricochet | 10-05-2004 05:21 PM |
Shall we start taking bets on whether or not the entry fees actually go down? :lol:
| RoundtheBend | 10-05-2004 05:22 PM |
[QUOTE=Subie Gal][i] please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE please PLEASE [/i] [b]dont raise the fees......[/b]
they are bad enough as it is :([/QUOTE]
What she said.
they are bad enough as it is :([/QUOTE]
What she said.
| DrBiggly | 10-05-2004 05:25 PM |
Glad to see folks willing to step up and fill the role.
There is no great loss without some small gain. :)
There is no great loss without some small gain. :)
| Kha0S | 10-05-2004 05:33 PM |
[QUOTE=ricochet]Shall we start taking bets on whether or not the entry fees actually go down? :lol:[/QUOTE]
Heh. I bet they will... at least at the club level.
/Andrew
Heh. I bet they will... at least at the club level.
/Andrew
| mattjb | 10-05-2004 05:56 PM |
I guess that puts the rally car on hold for the time being.
:(
I'm now very sad; shame on you whoever started this thread...
:(
I'm now very sad; shame on you whoever started this thread...
| outback2.5HO | 10-05-2004 06:00 PM |
I heard about it first thing this morning.. :(
It's unfortunate right now, but it will be much better for the sport in the long run. There are many, many people that want to help make it better (including me). ;)
SO...with that being said, if you need any help, in any aspect, out in the NW, we're here to help any way possible.
Agree with Jamie on the entry fee issue, but first thing's first...Let's make sure we have an organization to govern it before trying to make it better. ;)
Oh, BTW, DCH, GREAT run at Cog! :D
Rally On!:banana: :disco:
B---
It's unfortunate right now, but it will be much better for the sport in the long run. There are many, many people that want to help make it better (including me). ;)
SO...with that being said, if you need any help, in any aspect, out in the NW, we're here to help any way possible.
Agree with Jamie on the entry fee issue, but first thing's first...Let's make sure we have an organization to govern it before trying to make it better. ;)
Oh, BTW, DCH, GREAT run at Cog! :D
Rally On!:banana: :disco:
B---
| dch | 10-05-2004 06:08 PM |
Apparently there is a bit of misconception about what the SCCA press release actually means. They're not killing or abandoning or shutting down anything- they're working with Rally America to finalize the details in handing off Pro and Club rally [b]so they both can continue on in 2005 and beyond.[/b] It's a bit premature to speak of exact details as there's a huge mountain of work to be done to get the dust settled on all fronts, but everybody should fully expect that all events including the CRNC will happen. I know I do.
It was a very difficult business decision for the SCCA to make, but obviously they need to look after all of their programs as well as rally. It is my intention to do whatever I need to do in order to make sure that the sport of rally, which the SCCA fostered for so many years, not only continues, but prospers into the future. It's not an easy task by any means. It's going to be a huge challenge to take care of everybody from the first time rallyist on a shoestring budget through the manufacturers and future sponsors of not only the events themselves, but individual teams as well. But with a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck, I believe it can be done.
As for competitor fees, at least know that I understand where you're coming from and will be doing the best I can, with the help of a number of other good people, to put forth a program that works for everyone.
Cheers,
-Doug
It was a very difficult business decision for the SCCA to make, but obviously they need to look after all of their programs as well as rally. It is my intention to do whatever I need to do in order to make sure that the sport of rally, which the SCCA fostered for so many years, not only continues, but prospers into the future. It's not an easy task by any means. It's going to be a huge challenge to take care of everybody from the first time rallyist on a shoestring budget through the manufacturers and future sponsors of not only the events themselves, but individual teams as well. But with a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck, I believe it can be done.
As for competitor fees, at least know that I understand where you're coming from and will be doing the best I can, with the help of a number of other good people, to put forth a program that works for everyone.
Cheers,
-Doug
| Subie Gal | 10-05-2004 06:17 PM |
I got faith in you Douggie...
take a breath.... and then go kick some arse for us Rally Types.
we believe in ya! (and thanks for taking this on... or so it would seem!)
cheers,
Jam~
take a breath.... and then go kick some arse for us Rally Types.
we believe in ya! (and thanks for taking this on... or so it would seem!)
cheers,
Jam~
| ibis | 10-05-2004 06:19 PM |
Well, NASA called us today to confirm that we would still be showing up to RIM of the WORLD as a vendor, we confirmed that we wanted the same booth site, so we will be there just the same :)
Justin
COBB Tuning
[url]www.cobbtuning.com[/url]
Justin
COBB Tuning
[url]www.cobbtuning.com[/url]
| dch | 10-05-2004 06:37 PM |
One more thing (expect to see that phrase a lot in the near future :D). Don't go get your SCCA membership or Rally License refunded, because they'll be honored by Rally America during the transition period while we get up to speed on all that red tape stuff. Just chill out for a bit and we'll do our best to take care of you.
Cheers,
-Doug
Cheers,
-Doug
| johnfelstead | 10-05-2004 06:47 PM |
Best of luck with this Doug.
| RB5 Clone | 10-05-2004 06:57 PM |
Rally fans, don't give up yet!
�
�
This does NOT mean that the "sky is falling" it means that the sky is opening up! Rally America people have tons of talent. Ditto NASA. They will not let rally go down the tubes.
I'd like to see a true "clubman's" rally series emerge from this...a regional affordable series that becomes a feeder series to a credible national (heck even a North American) Championship.
This is not out of the realm of reality, given the support of mover-shakers like dch, Rally America, NASA and such. I got just one question...what can I (and our team, active supporters of SCCA RallyX, SCCA Pro, and CARS National series) do to help make all this good stuff come true? ciao, Dave G
I'd like to see a true "clubman's" rally series emerge from this...a regional affordable series that becomes a feeder series to a credible national (heck even a North American) Championship.
This is not out of the realm of reality, given the support of mover-shakers like dch, Rally America, NASA and such. I got just one question...what can I (and our team, active supporters of SCCA RallyX, SCCA Pro, and CARS National series) do to help make all this good stuff come true? ciao, Dave G
| jcroy66 | 10-05-2004 07:00 PM |
[QUOTE=10th Warrior]IIRC the insurance cycle restarts March 1[/QUOTE]
Not positive on this, but I think they said at the Townhall meeting at Nationals that the insurance cycle is now calendar year (Jan -> Dec).
Not positive on this, but I think they said at the Townhall meeting at Nationals that the insurance cycle is now calendar year (Jan -> Dec).
| JC_595 | 10-05-2004 07:24 PM |
Go Doug! Anything we can do, let us know.
JC
[url]http://www.rally-tv.com[/url]
[url]http://www.gnimotorsports.com[/url]
JC
[url]http://www.rally-tv.com[/url]
[url]http://www.gnimotorsports.com[/url]
| Jens | 10-05-2004 07:31 PM |
SCCA did NOT kill PRO RALLY.....
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�
.... but I know who did.
It is especially funny to read posts here and elsewhere from the same people who waved the 1998 proposal and the subsequent "vision statement" as a battle standard.
Follow these same people again like lemmings and rally in the U.S. will die forever (regardless of what organization is sanctioning it).
It is especially funny to read posts here and elsewhere from the same people who waved the 1998 proposal and the subsequent "vision statement" as a battle standard.
Follow these same people again like lemmings and rally in the U.S. will die forever (regardless of what organization is sanctioning it).
| travmn | 10-05-2004 07:35 PM |
[QUOTE=dch]One more thing (expect to see that phrase a lot in the near future :D). Don't go get your SCCA membership or Rally License refunded, because they'll be honored by Rally America during the transition period while we get up to speed on all that red tape stuff. Just chill out for a bit and we'll do our best to take care of you.
Cheers,
-Doug[/QUOTE]
That's reassuring to hear... I've got to renew my membership & license before LSPR, although, honestly, I would be much more comfortable if I can ditch the sportscar subscription and know most of that money would go to Rally America.
I hope the entry fees go back down to a better level as well, but I think during this transition period, and until event speeds go down a little bit, we won't be seeing any decreases in price.
This change will hopefully give Rally the chance it needs in the US. 2005 should be interesting.
Cheers,
-Doug[/QUOTE]
That's reassuring to hear... I've got to renew my membership & license before LSPR, although, honestly, I would be much more comfortable if I can ditch the sportscar subscription and know most of that money would go to Rally America.
I hope the entry fees go back down to a better level as well, but I think during this transition period, and until event speeds go down a little bit, we won't be seeing any decreases in price.
This change will hopefully give Rally the chance it needs in the US. 2005 should be interesting.
| nate49509 | 10-05-2004 07:36 PM |
You want this
[IMG]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/buttons/reply.gif[/IMG]
not this
[IMG]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/buttons/newthread.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/buttons/reply.gif[/IMG]
not this
[IMG]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/buttons/newthread.gif[/IMG]
| Rallycarperson | 10-05-2004 07:42 PM |
Its things like this that piss me off....
What benefits will the little switch-a-roo have?
-Mark
[url="http://www.MAPmotors.com"]www.MAPmotors.com[/url]
What benefits will the little switch-a-roo have?
-Mark
[url="http://www.MAPmotors.com"]www.MAPmotors.com[/url]
| thechickencow | 10-05-2004 07:44 PM |
I'm looking at this as a good thing. If there's anything I can do to help out Doug, let me know.
Everybody thats saying this puts their plans on hold, keep them rolling! I can't wait for next year now, even MORE than last year.
Jay
#583 G5
[url]www.step2racing.com[/url]
Everybody thats saying this puts their plans on hold, keep them rolling! I can't wait for next year now, even MORE than last year.
Jay
#583 G5
[url]www.step2racing.com[/url]
| dch | 10-05-2004 08:21 PM |
[QUOTE=Rallycarperson]Its things like this that piss me off....
What benefits will the little switch-a-roo have?
-Mark
[url="http://www.MAPmotors.com"]www.MAPmotors.com[/url][/QUOTE]I believe the proper question would be, "What benefits would you like the little switch-a-roo to have?"
The SCCA didn't just arbitrarily decide to not support Rally anymore, they had reasons for wanting to get out, and reasons for wanting it to continue. Hopefully both lines of reasoning will be satisfied, and we will all get to continue rallying well into the future.
Cheers,
-Doug
What benefits will the little switch-a-roo have?
-Mark
[url="http://www.MAPmotors.com"]www.MAPmotors.com[/url][/QUOTE]I believe the proper question would be, "What benefits would you like the little switch-a-roo to have?"
The SCCA didn't just arbitrarily decide to not support Rally anymore, they had reasons for wanting to get out, and reasons for wanting it to continue. Hopefully both lines of reasoning will be satisfied, and we will all get to continue rallying well into the future.
Cheers,
-Doug
| Greg555 | 10-05-2004 08:41 PM |
???Rules???
�
�
Any thoughts yet on rules? Will you stick to SCCA rules or adapt FIA ones for good. Now that FIA is doing that 2.0 NA rule how does that translate to us? What about US spec cars? Reece? It'll be interesting to see a new rulebook.
I think this is going to be a good change for the Rally in US since the ProRally people weren't always as passionate about the sport and we were always kinda in the shadow of their main operations.
Greg
I think this is going to be a good change for the Rally in US since the ProRally people weren't always as passionate about the sport and we were always kinda in the shadow of their main operations.
Greg
| Keith | 10-05-2004 08:43 PM |
hey greg, reply to my PMs.
thanks.
Keith
thanks.
Keith
| Greg555 | 10-05-2004 08:46 PM |
Sorry Keith, my Yahoo mail has been compromised by some dick and I don't get the notifications about the messages. I have been busy with new rallycar construction and spent little time in front of my PC lately.
Check your PM's in few mins.
Greg
Check your PM's in few mins.
Greg
| TSDScooby | 10-05-2004 09:20 PM |
question
�
�
I understand NASA will continue organizing events. Now, what exactly is Rally America? Do you have a website or something that talks more about it as an organization?
Also, I'm curious. If the libaility is an issue for the SCCA, why isn't it an issue for NASA/RallyAmerica? Is their insurance coverage less than SCCA "umbrealla" (i don't know if it is the right technical term) insurance?
I read a post that he/she won't build a rally car because of this. I don't think this should stop that person. I was handed out the keys to my PGT car not too long ago and I intend to run on NASA events (e.g., Rally NY Nov 5-6). You also have Canada. Rally America will apparently take over duties.. so there will be plenty of racing it seems.. I'm not worried I guess, but then again i don't know much about the behind the scenes action happening.
Cheers,
Emilio
-TSDScooby
Also, I'm curious. If the libaility is an issue for the SCCA, why isn't it an issue for NASA/RallyAmerica? Is their insurance coverage less than SCCA "umbrealla" (i don't know if it is the right technical term) insurance?
I read a post that he/she won't build a rally car because of this. I don't think this should stop that person. I was handed out the keys to my PGT car not too long ago and I intend to run on NASA events (e.g., Rally NY Nov 5-6). You also have Canada. Rally America will apparently take over duties.. so there will be plenty of racing it seems.. I'm not worried I guess, but then again i don't know much about the behind the scenes action happening.
Cheers,
Emilio
-TSDScooby
| Chromer | 10-05-2004 09:21 PM |
Any chance you could be a little less cryptic? Not all of us here were around the scene in '98.
| Greg555 | 10-05-2004 09:23 PM |
http://www.rally-america.com
�
�
WOW
[URL=http://www.rally-america.com]http://www.rally-america.com[/URL]
[URL=http://www.rally-america.com]http://www.rally-america.com[/URL]
| WRXMaster | 10-05-2004 09:28 PM |
About time someone took over the prorally series............ its one huge mess.... Is this going to just be prorally with a different name? or is it actually going to have marketing support and actually be professional? How long till any info will be released? Rally could be a very profitable industry if someone marketed it correctly... Good luck doug with all of this :disco:
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-05-2004 09:29 PM |
[QUOTE=TSDScooby]I understand NASA will continue organizing events. Now, what exactly is Rally America? Do you have a website or something that talks more about it as an organization?
Also, I'm curious. If the libaility is an issue for the SCCA, why isn't it an issue for NASA/RallyAmerica? Is their insurance coverage less than SCCA "umbrealla" (i don't know if it is the right technical term) insurance?
I read a post that he/she won't build a rally car because of this. I don't think this should stop that person. I was handed out the keys to my PGT car not too long ago and I intend to run on NASA events (e.g., Rally NY Nov 5-6). You also have Canada. Rally America will apparently take over duties.. so there will be plenty of racing it seems.. I'm not worried I guess, but then again i don't know much about the behind the scenes action happening.
Cheers,
Emilio
-TSDScooby[/QUOTE]
Rally America has been helping out with scoring and timing at SCCA Pro Rally events. They entered into some arrangement with the SCCA in the past, but details were not made public.
Also, I'm curious. If the libaility is an issue for the SCCA, why isn't it an issue for NASA/RallyAmerica? Is their insurance coverage less than SCCA "umbrealla" (i don't know if it is the right technical term) insurance?
I read a post that he/she won't build a rally car because of this. I don't think this should stop that person. I was handed out the keys to my PGT car not too long ago and I intend to run on NASA events (e.g., Rally NY Nov 5-6). You also have Canada. Rally America will apparently take over duties.. so there will be plenty of racing it seems.. I'm not worried I guess, but then again i don't know much about the behind the scenes action happening.
Cheers,
Emilio
-TSDScooby[/QUOTE]
Rally America has been helping out with scoring and timing at SCCA Pro Rally events. They entered into some arrangement with the SCCA in the past, but details were not made public.
| rallynutdon | 10-05-2004 10:12 PM |
[QUOTE=Chromer]Whups, yeah. Missed that. That's kind of weird given Rallycross is a chapter of the Performance Rally rulebook.[/QUOTE]
But Rallycross and TSD rally don't pay out anything in insurance claims like stage rallying, not nearly the liability. So, (not to be too negative) they keep the cash cow (not that it's much cash) and get rid of the liability. Makes perfect sense.
But Rallycross and TSD rally don't pay out anything in insurance claims like stage rallying, not nearly the liability. So, (not to be too negative) they keep the cash cow (not that it's much cash) and get rid of the liability. Makes perfect sense.
| rallynutdon | 10-05-2004 10:14 PM |
[QUOTE=10th Warrior]i'd heard this may very well happen last week. its still a tough pill to swallow. it does make me wonder if i should continue to sink time and money into the Golf though. i guess i should have brought this up with Kim on Sunday, but Doug, or anybody else who might be in the know, will the 04 CRNC still happen as scheduled. Its in February, its under 04 rules, and IIRC the insurance cycle restarts March 1, so maybe? eh, i'm just thinking out loud. time to make some phone calls.[/QUOTE]
So you don't think there's anybody else other than SCCA that can sanction rallying in the USA ?????????? They'll still be plenty of rallies. RA will be a good thing but we need to be patient and give them time and not ask or demand so many answers so soon.
So you don't think there's anybody else other than SCCA that can sanction rallying in the USA ?????????? They'll still be plenty of rallies. RA will be a good thing but we need to be patient and give them time and not ask or demand so many answers so soon.
| Jon Bogert | 10-05-2004 11:13 PM |
For all of you that weren't around for the beginning of the end, here's the "SCCA Master Plan" (1.4MB):
[url]http://www.rallystuff.com/images/SCCA%20master%20plan.pdf[/url]
You might want to right click and "Save As" since it's not optimized for web viewing.
[url]http://www.rallystuff.com/images/SCCA%20master%20plan.pdf[/url]
You might want to right click and "Save As" since it's not optimized for web viewing.
| Rallychic | 10-05-2004 11:40 PM |
Doug,
You have a lot of people that are behind you and hope this is a great step in the right direction for rally.
If you need any help with anything in the future, I would love to work with everyone again.
Tina
You have a lot of people that are behind you and hope this is a great step in the right direction for rally.
If you need any help with anything in the future, I would love to work with everyone again.
Tina
| digitalpimp | 10-06-2004 12:09 AM |
[QUOTE=rallynutdon]RA will be a good thing but we need to be patient and give them time and not ask or demand so many answers so soon.[/QUOTE]
exactly. i have NEVER heard of doug letting anybody down...
and somebody please change the title of the post to: scca passes rally program to rally america. needless to say nobody killed anything
exactly. i have NEVER heard of doug letting anybody down...
and somebody please change the title of the post to: scca passes rally program to rally america. needless to say nobody killed anything
| WRXedUSA | 10-06-2004 12:11 AM |
Gzus. What is the sport coming to?
In any event what shakes out over winter, I'll be out supporting where I can.
In any event what shakes out over winter, I'll be out supporting where I can.
| Jens | 10-06-2004 12:12 AM |
[QUOTE=Chromer]Any chance you could be a little less cryptic? Not all of us here were around the scene in '98.[/QUOTE]
Less cryptic, eh? Okay
Kurt Spitzner orchestrated the demise of PRO RALLY while a significant group of his supporters defended his destruction of PRO RALLY primarily because they thought there would be a pay off for them (bigger rallies, FIA involvement, big name drivers). What they were either too blind, too stupid, too drugged, or hypnotized to recognize that U.S. rally has always been a low profile sport for many reasons. Trying to raise its profile was reckless (aw heck... more frankly... it was idiotic). Count the body bags.
Now there are people calling Rally America their saviour. Rally America is populated by Spitzner supporters from the northern Midwest. Perhaps some think this is a good thing. I don't.
NASA rally appears, though I cannot confirm, to be profit driven. There is nothhing wrong with that. But, a profit motivation does not equal longevity.
Neither Rally America nor NASA have the membership numbers to have any politcal influence.
How will this turn out? I don't have my crystal ball, but my best guess is U.S. rally is in its death throws and will be over in 5 years.
Get out there and prove me wrong, but don't mortgage your house doing it.
Jens Larsen
Flying Kiwi Racing
ProRally car# 112
Less cryptic, eh? Okay
Kurt Spitzner orchestrated the demise of PRO RALLY while a significant group of his supporters defended his destruction of PRO RALLY primarily because they thought there would be a pay off for them (bigger rallies, FIA involvement, big name drivers). What they were either too blind, too stupid, too drugged, or hypnotized to recognize that U.S. rally has always been a low profile sport for many reasons. Trying to raise its profile was reckless (aw heck... more frankly... it was idiotic). Count the body bags.
Now there are people calling Rally America their saviour. Rally America is populated by Spitzner supporters from the northern Midwest. Perhaps some think this is a good thing. I don't.
NASA rally appears, though I cannot confirm, to be profit driven. There is nothhing wrong with that. But, a profit motivation does not equal longevity.
Neither Rally America nor NASA have the membership numbers to have any politcal influence.
How will this turn out? I don't have my crystal ball, but my best guess is U.S. rally is in its death throws and will be over in 5 years.
Get out there and prove me wrong, but don't mortgage your house doing it.
Jens Larsen
Flying Kiwi Racing
ProRally car# 112
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-06-2004 12:47 AM |
[QUOTE=digitalpimp]and somebody please change the title of the post to: scca passes rally program to rally america. needless to say nobody killed anything[/QUOTE]
That's a bit too much spin for me.
Clearly this is a big blow to rallying (and maybe an opportunity in disguise).
But we have cars prepped to a set of rules, a rulebook, logbooks, inspections, memberships, licenses, regional organizations, .....
Glenn
That's a bit too much spin for me.
Clearly this is a big blow to rallying (and maybe an opportunity in disguise).
But we have cars prepped to a set of rules, a rulebook, logbooks, inspections, memberships, licenses, regional organizations, .....
Glenn
| dch | 10-06-2004 01:24 AM |
[QUOTE=Glenn Wallace]Rally America has been helping out with scoring and timing at SCCA Pro Rally events. They entered into some arrangement with the SCCA in the past, but details were not made public.[/QUOTE]Hiya Glenn. Actually, the details were available, just not highly publicized I guess. Year one (which would be 2003 I believe), Rally America showed up and tested the water with live Internet updates but not in a real serious fashion and purely on my own funding. Towards the end of that year, we developed some software to do scoring and acquired some timing gear to address a need we saw at a number of events, again on my own dime. Apparently we were able to do a good enough job with what we had to warrant the SCCA, the organizers and the manufacturers bringing us in as part of the ProRally partnership program. That program used money from the manufacturers, which boiled down to Subaru and the Air Force Reserve (kudos for them delivering on their promise of funding even though they chose not to contest any events by the way), and paid each organizer that opted to take advantage of the program $3,000 and paid Rally America $3,000 to handle timing and scoring on behalf of the organizer. Now if you think that $3,000 is a lot of money for the services provided at an event, don't forget to take into account 2 bodies for scoring operations proper, two that assist with MTC operation (critical for scoring, you know), one for course opening to assure that all gear is set up and operating correctly as well as training workers, plus equipment maintenance, batteries, travel and lodging expenses and so on. Basically we operated 2004 at a loss (Rally America has no employees by the way, everyone out there was a volunteer that had their basic expenses covered), but I feel we were successful in helping out the SCCA and the organizers and bringing some much needed consistency to the series as a whole as well as providing information to those who could not attend the events.
So we've been under-promising and over-delivering in an attempt to help out rally here in the US for the last two years now, albeit on a shoestring budget. When I learned the SCCA was in a bind with the rally program, I had a tough decision to make. Was I or was I not willing to commit massive amounts of time, money and effort towards continuing the relationships I had begun with the organizers and everyone involved in rally as a whole. The answer was of course "Yes I was".
It was a fairly natural fit for Rally America, the SCCA, and the organizers to have us take the ball and run with it. All that remains is to step up from a group of well intentioned volunteers, to a well intentioned properly funded business, and set about making it all happen (or continue to happen that is). I guess that's what I'd call the "hard part". :D
Cheers,
-Doug
P.S. - How would [b]you[/b] handle a seamless conversion from the existing rules, logbooks, licenses etc. to whatever it all might become in the future? Transition period perhaps? Good idea! ;)
So we've been under-promising and over-delivering in an attempt to help out rally here in the US for the last two years now, albeit on a shoestring budget. When I learned the SCCA was in a bind with the rally program, I had a tough decision to make. Was I or was I not willing to commit massive amounts of time, money and effort towards continuing the relationships I had begun with the organizers and everyone involved in rally as a whole. The answer was of course "Yes I was".
It was a fairly natural fit for Rally America, the SCCA, and the organizers to have us take the ball and run with it. All that remains is to step up from a group of well intentioned volunteers, to a well intentioned properly funded business, and set about making it all happen (or continue to happen that is). I guess that's what I'd call the "hard part". :D
Cheers,
-Doug
P.S. - How would [b]you[/b] handle a seamless conversion from the existing rules, logbooks, licenses etc. to whatever it all might become in the future? Transition period perhaps? Good idea! ;)
| dch | 10-06-2004 01:46 AM |
Hello Jens. A couple of observations I'd like to share...
It's not possible to go back in time. Therefore, I choose to start from here and now and do the best I can. If the worst you can come up with about Rally America is to call us "Spitzner supporters" then I guess we're not doing so bad, eh?
I don't suppose it would make any difference to you that I firmly believe a solid, affordable, entry level rally program is every bit as if not more important than a (for lack of a more well recognized term at the moment) "Pro" level program would it? Personally I think we can have both.
Anyhow, if you have any suggestions on how best to meet the needs of either end or both ends of the spectrum of competitors, please feel free to share them with me and we'll see what we can do.
Cheers,
-Doug
It's not possible to go back in time. Therefore, I choose to start from here and now and do the best I can. If the worst you can come up with about Rally America is to call us "Spitzner supporters" then I guess we're not doing so bad, eh?
I don't suppose it would make any difference to you that I firmly believe a solid, affordable, entry level rally program is every bit as if not more important than a (for lack of a more well recognized term at the moment) "Pro" level program would it? Personally I think we can have both.
Anyhow, if you have any suggestions on how best to meet the needs of either end or both ends of the spectrum of competitors, please feel free to share them with me and we'll see what we can do.
Cheers,
-Doug
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-06-2004 01:55 AM |
[QUOTE=dch]Hiya Glenn. Actually, the details were available, just not highly publicized I guess. [/quote]
I asked the SCCA at some point, but never received the details. Oh well, water under the bridge.
[quote]
and paid each organizer that opted to take advantage of the program $3,000 and paid Rally America $3,000 to handle timing and scoring on behalf of the organizer. Now if you think that $3,000 is a lot of money for the services provided at an event, don't forget to take into account 2 bodies for scoring o
[/quote]
That actually sounds like a pretty good deal for the SCCA (ie cheap).
[quote]It was a fairly natural fit for Rally America, the SCCA, and the organizers to have us take the ball and run with it. All that remains is to step up from a group of well intentioned volunteers, to a well intentioned properly funded business, and set about making it all happen (or continue to happen that is). I guess that's what I'd call the "hard part". :D
[/quote]
Right, well as you know the insurance/sanctioning is the tough part. You also know the challenges the organizers face. Thank you for trying to help make it better.
[quote]P.S. - How would [b]you[/b] handle a seamless conversion from the existing rules, logbooks, licenses etc. to whatever it all might become in the future? Transition period perhaps? Good idea! ;)[/QUOTE]
Err, that sounds hard!
Of course I have my own hidden agendas:
* switch to pace notes, dump stage notes
* drop open class, make Grp N the championship
* encourage a Historic class to flourish
* support single make or "formula" classes
Glenn
PS let's not forget that Doug and Sue are presumably out of a job at some point...
I asked the SCCA at some point, but never received the details. Oh well, water under the bridge.
[quote]
and paid each organizer that opted to take advantage of the program $3,000 and paid Rally America $3,000 to handle timing and scoring on behalf of the organizer. Now if you think that $3,000 is a lot of money for the services provided at an event, don't forget to take into account 2 bodies for scoring o
[/quote]
That actually sounds like a pretty good deal for the SCCA (ie cheap).
[quote]It was a fairly natural fit for Rally America, the SCCA, and the organizers to have us take the ball and run with it. All that remains is to step up from a group of well intentioned volunteers, to a well intentioned properly funded business, and set about making it all happen (or continue to happen that is). I guess that's what I'd call the "hard part". :D
[/quote]
Right, well as you know the insurance/sanctioning is the tough part. You also know the challenges the organizers face. Thank you for trying to help make it better.
[quote]P.S. - How would [b]you[/b] handle a seamless conversion from the existing rules, logbooks, licenses etc. to whatever it all might become in the future? Transition period perhaps? Good idea! ;)[/QUOTE]
Err, that sounds hard!
Of course I have my own hidden agendas:
* switch to pace notes, dump stage notes
* drop open class, make Grp N the championship
* encourage a Historic class to flourish
* support single make or "formula" classes
Glenn
PS let's not forget that Doug and Sue are presumably out of a job at some point...
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