| ralliharri | 02-04-2007 07:26 PM |
Track day car, ITR or M3 or...?
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Been tracking my GGB wagon with extensive mods, mostly suspension (Konis, pinks, lat links, -2.5F/-1.5R camber, swaybars) but also some engine (Cobb stg2) but been thinking of a more dedicated track day car that might be a little cheaper in insurance, tires and fuel. So in my very short list is Honda Integra Type R, BMW M3 ('95 through maybe '97). These will go for around $10-11k range but thinking the ITR is more reliable and cheaper in parts. Which one has the better chassis starting point? I dont wanna spend a ton of money (as I've done w/ the Subie). I'd love to keep the wagon, it is so much fun to pass cars that cost 2-3 times as much but frankly I couldnt afford to have something major happen to it at the track. Or are there other cars I cant think of? Was originally thinking of a Miata but it's simply a little slow against the Corvettes.
Looked at a '97 ITR today in pretty decent shape and they are pretty rare so I'm quite interested in it. So any input guys?
Looked at a '97 ITR today in pretty decent shape and they are pretty rare so I'm quite interested in it. So any input guys?
| REX8 | 02-04-2007 09:23 PM |
The ITR would be a blast, but the E36 is more fun to drive, and has the better balance. Not that the ITR will be any slower than it, but the E36 is the nicer drive for sure.
One of the most beautifully balanced cars to drive at the limit, still to this day.
One of the most beautifully balanced cars to drive at the limit, still to this day.
| r.o.b | 02-04-2007 09:49 PM |
the m3 e36 will definately be a good start. The cars are made for the track and they can be bagged. Parts can be more expensive or the same price as a ITR depending on where you are etc.
If you go with the m3 you will surely be happy with its performance
If you go with the m3 you will surely be happy with its performance
| REX8 | 02-04-2007 09:51 PM |
Brakes and tires are much cheaper on the ITR though...
| STi-MAN | 02-04-2007 09:55 PM |
ITR's get stolen pretty quick also...
| cooleyjb | 02-04-2007 10:18 PM |
E30 M3 would be my only choice ahead of an E36 M3. Performance parts for all cars are expensive so I wouldn't care about looking for that between the M3 and ITR. HOwever you shoould do more research if you are looking at 95-97. Most BMW people I know tend to think the 95 is the obvious choice over the 96-97 for a couple of reasons that I don't necessairly remember.
The M3 was NOT built for the track as many people like to say. It is a luxury sport sedan. It however is a good candidate for the track beign that it is well balanced out of the box and has a very large aftermarket for speed parts. It has a few flaws that are constant among them and are easy to fix and are well documented. It still needs just as much suspension work as any other car you'd get. While the engine is strong out of the box there is always the desire for more power and you'd do the same mods to it as you would for any other car.
The M3 was NOT built for the track as many people like to say. It is a luxury sport sedan. It however is a good candidate for the track beign that it is well balanced out of the box and has a very large aftermarket for speed parts. It has a few flaws that are constant among them and are easy to fix and are well documented. It still needs just as much suspension work as any other car you'd get. While the engine is strong out of the box there is always the desire for more power and you'd do the same mods to it as you would for any other car.
| leecea | 02-04-2007 10:23 PM |
Cau you really get a good ITR for $10-$11K? The ones I've seen for sale have been $5K more.
| Paisan | 02-04-2007 10:38 PM |
Why not cage the subie? We need more subies to start racing!
-mike
-mike
| import111 | 02-04-2007 11:07 PM |
2nd gen MR2 turbo
Light weight, mid engine, RWD, cheap to buy, turbo, Toyota reliability. Can't go wrong....unless you are way tall and just don't fit in 1 or something.
Light weight, mid engine, RWD, cheap to buy, turbo, Toyota reliability. Can't go wrong....unless you are way tall and just don't fit in 1 or something.
| silver arrow | 02-04-2007 11:14 PM |
Okay I'll say it. Spec Miata.
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-04-2007 11:34 PM |
I vote for the ITR but I don't think you'll find one cheap. I sold mine 9 months ago for 17k with 88k miles on it. They are super fun though.
Dave Mac
Dave Mac
| awdftw | 02-04-2007 11:46 PM |
no way should you get an ITR, its fwd FTL.. fwd doesnt = race car.. id go with the m3, or get a wrx.
| nerdydorkus | 02-04-2007 11:50 PM |
I am in the same boat your are. I am planning to do a little de-modding to make my WRX more streetable.
For the speed fixes (since I drive like a granny on the streets) I am purchasing an E30 BMW. This is basically any 1983-91 BMW 3 series. They are easy to work on, parts are easy to find, easy to swap, and handle like little go carts.
And as far as an M3, I think they are dissapointing track cars. For the track, I would much rather have an STI over an M3. But for the streets its M3 hands down. They are WAY to heavy and without some reduction and a few mods they don't perform to the expectation of a car that costs that much. E36>E46
For the speed fixes (since I drive like a granny on the streets) I am purchasing an E30 BMW. This is basically any 1983-91 BMW 3 series. They are easy to work on, parts are easy to find, easy to swap, and handle like little go carts.
And as far as an M3, I think they are dissapointing track cars. For the track, I would much rather have an STI over an M3. But for the streets its M3 hands down. They are WAY to heavy and without some reduction and a few mods they don't perform to the expectation of a car that costs that much. E36>E46
| REX8 | 02-04-2007 11:50 PM |
[QUOTE=awdftw;16931291]no way should you get an ITR, its fwd FTL.. fwd doesnt = race car.. id go with the m3, or get a wrx.[/QUOTE]
And you should get some more motorsports education.
And you should get some more motorsports education.
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-04-2007 11:52 PM |
I guess Randy Pobst, Jeff Altenberg, Pierre Kleinubing aren't real race car drivers then. You obviously haven't driven one very well.
| ralliharri | 02-04-2007 11:52 PM |
[QUOTE=awdftw;16931291]no way should you get an ITR, its fwd FTL.. fwd doesnt = race car.. id go with the m3, or get a wrx.[/QUOTE]
Ummm...I already have an wrx....
Ummm...I already have an wrx....
| Kostamojen | 02-04-2007 11:53 PM |
My goal for my car is to compete with ITR's... So I say get a OG Impreza and do that :)
| ralliharri | 02-04-2007 11:54 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16931170]I vote for the ITR but I don't think you'll find one cheap. I sold mine 9 months ago for 17k with 88k miles on it. They are super fun though.
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
The one i looked at today was asking $11.3k w/ 86k miles on it, unmolested besides an cold-air intake.
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
The one i looked at today was asking $11.3k w/ 86k miles on it, unmolested besides an cold-air intake.
| REX8 | 02-04-2007 11:54 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16931352]I guess Randy Pobst, Jeff Altenberg, Pierre Kleinubing aren't real race car drivers then. You obviously haven't driven one very well.[/QUOTE]
Pobst is a bum! ;) ...but I did catch him in an RX-8 last weekend didn't I?
Pobst is a bum! ;) ...but I did catch him in an RX-8 last weekend didn't I?
| nerdydorkus | 02-04-2007 11:55 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8;16931334]And you should get some more motorsports education.[/QUOTE]
^^^^^+1
ITR's are great track cars. And as far as FWD racecars have you ever heard of Spoon, Realtime, etc.
^^^^^+1
ITR's are great track cars. And as far as FWD racecars have you ever heard of Spoon, Realtime, etc.
| ralliharri | 02-04-2007 11:56 PM |
[QUOTE=import111;16930853]2nd gen MR2 turbo
Light weight, mid engine, RWD, cheap to buy, turbo, Toyota reliability. Can't go wrong....unless you are way tall and just don't fit in 1 or something.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, another car I love, hard to find one for decent price/lo miles/umnmolested.
Light weight, mid engine, RWD, cheap to buy, turbo, Toyota reliability. Can't go wrong....unless you are way tall and just don't fit in 1 or something.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, another car I love, hard to find one for decent price/lo miles/umnmolested.
| nerdydorkus | 02-04-2007 11:57 PM |
[url]http://www.e30tech.com/pictures/matt/019.jpg[/url]
[url]http://www.e30tech.com/pictures/mtriple/010.JPG[/url]
[url]http://www.e30tech.com/pictures/mtriple/006.JPG[/url]
seriously join the E30 community with me :banana:
[url]http://www.e30tech.com/pictures/mtriple/010.JPG[/url]
[url]http://www.e30tech.com/pictures/mtriple/006.JPG[/url]
seriously join the E30 community with me :banana:
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-04-2007 11:57 PM |
BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT. Well, check the oil and spark plugs to look for burnt bits and coolant, then BUY IT. Once you learn how to drive one properly you'll beat many cars on the track, not all of them mind you but quite a few. They are VERY fun too.
Don't ask Leeca though, he hated it when I had mine. LOL
Dave Mac
Don't ask Leeca though, he hated it when I had mine. LOL
Dave Mac
| REX8 | 02-04-2007 11:59 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16931428]BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT. Well, check the oil and spark plugs to look for burnt bits and coolant, then BUY IT. Once you learn how to drive one properly you'll beat many cars on the track, not all of them mind you but quite a few. They are VERY fun too.
Don't ask Leeca though, he hated it when I had mine. LOL
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
I was going to tell him to buy it, sell it for 15, then find another...:D
Don't ask Leeca though, he hated it when I had mine. LOL
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
I was going to tell him to buy it, sell it for 15, then find another...:D
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-05-2007 12:00 AM |
[QUOTE=REX8;16931387]Pobst is a bum! ;) ...but I did catch him in an RX-8 last weekend didn't I?[/QUOTE]
LOL, yeah he is! One of my sponsors was down at Daytona last week and the said the RX-8's sounded like they were jet powered on the NASCAR portions of the track. Randy looked like he was enjoying himself. Maybe you'll see a few of us NASIOC'ers down there in the next two years. Were working on a plan.:devil:
Dave Mac
LOL, yeah he is! One of my sponsors was down at Daytona last week and the said the RX-8's sounded like they were jet powered on the NASCAR portions of the track. Randy looked like he was enjoying himself. Maybe you'll see a few of us NASIOC'ers down there in the next two years. Were working on a plan.:devil:
Dave Mac
| Paisan | 02-05-2007 12:16 AM |
Question for all you subie guys that are moving to other makes for race cars. Any particular reason why you aren't looking at Impreza Ls, RSs, older Legacies, as road race cars? I mean you are on this site, so you are probably into Subies. For me, I've been on here for a long time, always loved subies and when I started road racing, the first thing I thought was "Gotta road race a Subaru" eventually I caged my AWD/AT Impreza L, and while not the best racecar due to the AT and poor cage design(it was overkill on the cage and gave poor visibility) it was great to be out there in a Subaru. Now we are campaigning a 94 Legacy Turbo in NASA's Performance Touring D Class and look forward to doing well in the class.
Impreza Ls can be had for <2K, Legacy Turbos <3k, etc. Why not race em?
-mike
Impreza Ls can be had for <2K, Legacy Turbos <3k, etc. Why not race em?
-mike
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-05-2007 12:47 AM |
Cuz you look like teh big geek in the Legover. LOL J/K Mike.
It's most likely due to the fact that people (even us) don't think of them as "track worthy" cars. It's not that they aren't or can't be made so, it just doesn't come to mind. That said, I'm sure you'll beat quite a few cars out there this year and give people pause and consider a Subie.
Dave Mac
It's most likely due to the fact that people (even us) don't think of them as "track worthy" cars. It's not that they aren't or can't be made so, it just doesn't come to mind. That said, I'm sure you'll beat quite a few cars out there this year and give people pause and consider a Subie.
Dave Mac
| Kostamojen | 02-05-2007 01:33 AM |
Its cheaper to make an old L trackworthy than to buy an ITR and make it trackworthy...
| Paisan | 02-05-2007 02:28 AM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16932006]Cuz you look like teh big geek in the Legover. LOL J/K Mike.
It's most likely due to the fact that people (even us) don't think of them as "track worthy" cars. It's not that they aren't or can't be made so, it just doesn't come to mind. That said, I'm sure you'll beat quite a few cars out there this year and give people pause and consider a Subie.
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the support. I won't even be driving it! Adam will be driving cause he's at least 2 seconds faster than me in the car. I'm sticking to the Car Owner/Manager/Crew spot for the team this year.
Hope to place in the top 10 at the 3 Hour Enduro at VIR in Feb.
-mike
It's most likely due to the fact that people (even us) don't think of them as "track worthy" cars. It's not that they aren't or can't be made so, it just doesn't come to mind. That said, I'm sure you'll beat quite a few cars out there this year and give people pause and consider a Subie.
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the support. I won't even be driving it! Adam will be driving cause he's at least 2 seconds faster than me in the car. I'm sticking to the Car Owner/Manager/Crew spot for the team this year.
Hope to place in the top 10 at the 3 Hour Enduro at VIR in Feb.
-mike
| Butt Dyno | 02-05-2007 08:02 AM |
Old thread praising the ITR:
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1125448&highlight=integra[/url]
Most of the decent ones I've seen on itrca.com have been more like $15K but if you think you can find one for $11K? That sounds like a good deal. I would NOT buy one unless you have a garage though as the theft issues are pretty insane.
BTW, buy a Miata :D Everything is so damn cheap, it'll teach you lots about driving, and won't get stolen.
john
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1125448&highlight=integra[/url]
Most of the decent ones I've seen on itrca.com have been more like $15K but if you think you can find one for $11K? That sounds like a good deal. I would NOT buy one unless you have a garage though as the theft issues are pretty insane.
BTW, buy a Miata :D Everything is so damn cheap, it'll teach you lots about driving, and won't get stolen.
john
| Butt Dyno | 02-05-2007 08:03 AM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16931466]LOL, yeah he is! One of my sponsors was down at Daytona last week and the said the RX-8's sounded like they were jet powered on the NASCAR portions of the track. Randy looked like he was enjoying himself. Maybe you'll see a few of us NASIOC'ers down there in the next two years. Were working on a plan.:devil:[/QUOTE]Randy goes to the November Audi Club events at VIR every year, I think. He went in 2005. I got to give him a point by :)
| Turn in Concepts | 02-05-2007 10:28 AM |
There is a guy with an ITR I have HPDE'd with a few times. He has 2 NSX's, and ITR and a boxster and chooses to drive the ITR for most of his track days. He says it is much more fun than any of the others as it is the most pure and simple.
Tony
Tony
| rbahr | 02-05-2007 11:05 AM |
I have tracked an E36 M3, Porsche 944 TS, and a STi. The E36 is a great track car - it is not the track car the E30 M3 is (an E30 M3 with the E36 M3 motor is a good combination). All of these cars had mods for the track. The 95 M3 is regarded as the best track choice.
NONE of these cars are cheap to run - They all have a bunch of issues that need to be addressed to run on the track.
That said, I prefer my STi which needed a good deal of care and feeding to keep it running...
Ray
NONE of these cars are cheap to run - They all have a bunch of issues that need to be addressed to run on the track.
That said, I prefer my STi which needed a good deal of care and feeding to keep it running...
Ray
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-05-2007 11:22 AM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen;16932417]Its cheaper to make an old L trackworthy than to buy an ITR and make it trackworthy...[/QUOTE]
What do you need to do to an ITR other than brake pads and tires to make it trackworthy?:huh:
What do you need to do to an ITR other than brake pads and tires to make it trackworthy?:huh:
| REX8 | 02-05-2007 12:07 PM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen;16932417]Its cheaper to make an old L trackworthy than to buy an ITR and make it trackworthy...[/QUOTE]
Struggling to find even a tiny bit of truth in that statement.
EDIT: Doogie (PM'd you btw on that rubber) beat me to it
Struggling to find even a tiny bit of truth in that statement.
EDIT: Doogie (PM'd you btw on that rubber) beat me to it
| Kostamojen | 02-05-2007 04:25 PM |
Its cheaper because an ITR costs so damn much still! You can get an L for $1500 or so, and for that $10-14k cost difference you can make it a track beast :)
If you disagree, thats fine, but back when I still had the 1.8 L I HPDE'd with a modded ITR and I was quicker in the corners ;)
If you disagree, thats fine, but back when I still had the 1.8 L I HPDE'd with a modded ITR and I was quicker in the corners ;)
| Paisan | 02-05-2007 05:04 PM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen;16940234]Its cheaper because an ITR costs so damn much still! You can get an L for $1500 or so, and for that $10-14k cost difference you can make it a track beast :)
If you disagree, thats fine, but back when I still had the 1.8 L I HPDE'd with a modded ITR and I was quicker in the corners ;)[/QUOTE]
Right on my brother! I remember once at LRP I had my primered L and I kept getting passed by a vette with the plate "Fast Z06" then it started to drizzle and I lapped him several times and I had R-compounds on to boot, I was like "Fast Z06, except in adverse conditions" haaaaaa
-mike
If you disagree, thats fine, but back when I still had the 1.8 L I HPDE'd with a modded ITR and I was quicker in the corners ;)[/QUOTE]
Right on my brother! I remember once at LRP I had my primered L and I kept getting passed by a vette with the plate "Fast Z06" then it started to drizzle and I lapped him several times and I had R-compounds on to boot, I was like "Fast Z06, except in adverse conditions" haaaaaa
-mike
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-05-2007 05:09 PM |
Now c'mon man. Matched driver for driver it'd be the ITR all the way in the corners. You just drove on the track with some noob in an ITR. It's not like you were driving against Bob Endicott or someone of that caliber.
Dave Mac
Dave Mac
| Kostamojen | 02-05-2007 06:16 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16940896]Now c'mon man. Matched driver for driver it'd be the ITR all the way in the corners. You just drove on the track with some noob in an ITR. It's not like you were driving against Bob Endicott or someone of that caliber.
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
It was my first track day. He had several under his belt... His car pushed and went in the dirt while I stayed on his ass the whole corner. I just had more grip, and that was with my old car which is a bit slower than my current car in the corners ;)
Considering the weight of the two cars was roughly the same, the AWD plus wider tires (he had better tires too) were more than a match for the ITR.
Honestly, I'd be more concerned matching an ITR power wise while staying N/A (you can always WRX/STI swap it, but thats just too easy)
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
It was my first track day. He had several under his belt... His car pushed and went in the dirt while I stayed on his ass the whole corner. I just had more grip, and that was with my old car which is a bit slower than my current car in the corners ;)
Considering the weight of the two cars was roughly the same, the AWD plus wider tires (he had better tires too) were more than a match for the ITR.
Honestly, I'd be more concerned matching an ITR power wise while staying N/A (you can always WRX/STI swap it, but thats just too easy)
| ChrisDP | 02-05-2007 06:49 PM |
I went back to an H/A product for racing because well... less stuff to break, better suspension design, parts are more readily available, and there are tons of people who can make them extremely fast on a smaller budget than it would take to make a Subaru fast, reliable and competitive. I can run Honda Challenge 4 with NASA, Performance Touring if I were so inclined, ITA with SCCA... My WRX just plain started eating parts at a frightening rate when I started approaching race-pace on track. I eventually solved my brake problems with world challenge-spec pads, and 3" brake ducts, at which point I started melting rubber bits in the front end of the car. Spent a ton of money fixing the transmission both times it croaked at VIR. It's a lot cheaper to go as fast/faster in my Integra.
| Draken | 02-05-2007 07:20 PM |
I switched from my '04 STi to a 1972 Fiat 128 for track use. It's not that I couldn't afford to run the STi, more just the thought of the amount of cash I was tossing out for expendibles each event. Fuel, tires, brakes, wheel bearings etc.
I freely admit I'm going way slower in the Fiat though. I was running consistant 2:02s at Thunderhill with the STi, and am now running 2:18s with the Fiat. The Fiat is more relaxing to drive too, especially considering the nap I can take down the front straight and from turn 6 to 9 ;) I should be down in the 2:14 range with slicks and the latest round of weight reductions.
I vote for the ITR. Oh, and a well driven L won't touch a well driven ITR.
Chris H.
I freely admit I'm going way slower in the Fiat though. I was running consistant 2:02s at Thunderhill with the STi, and am now running 2:18s with the Fiat. The Fiat is more relaxing to drive too, especially considering the nap I can take down the front straight and from turn 6 to 9 ;) I should be down in the 2:14 range with slicks and the latest round of weight reductions.
I vote for the ITR. Oh, and a well driven L won't touch a well driven ITR.
Chris H.
| Paisan | 02-05-2007 08:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken;16942546]I switched from my '04 STi to a 1972 Fiat 128 for track use. It's not that I couldn't afford to run the STi, more just the thought of the amount of cash I was tossing out for expendibles each event. Fuel, tires, brakes, wheel bearings etc.
I freely admit I'm going way slower in the Fiat though. I was running consistant 2:02s at Thunderhill with the STi, and am now running 2:18s with the Fiat. The Fiat is more relaxing to drive too, especially considering the nap I can take down the front straight and from turn 6 to 9 ;) I should be down in the 2:14 range with slicks and the latest round of weight reductions.
I vote for the ITR. Oh, and a well driven L won't touch a well driven ITR.
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
But an ITR wouldn't be classed the same as an L, it's all relative.
I guess we just don't push our subies too hard, seeing as I've never broken anything other than brakes and that's just a consumable item as far as I'm concerned.
We'll see, different strokes for different folks.
Anyone running at VIR for the 3hr Enduro?
-mike
I freely admit I'm going way slower in the Fiat though. I was running consistant 2:02s at Thunderhill with the STi, and am now running 2:18s with the Fiat. The Fiat is more relaxing to drive too, especially considering the nap I can take down the front straight and from turn 6 to 9 ;) I should be down in the 2:14 range with slicks and the latest round of weight reductions.
I vote for the ITR. Oh, and a well driven L won't touch a well driven ITR.
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
But an ITR wouldn't be classed the same as an L, it's all relative.
I guess we just don't push our subies too hard, seeing as I've never broken anything other than brakes and that's just a consumable item as far as I'm concerned.
We'll see, different strokes for different folks.
Anyone running at VIR for the 3hr Enduro?
-mike
| Kostamojen | 02-05-2007 09:08 PM |
Brakes, tires, etc. wearing out are far less of an issue with an old L chassis compaired to a WRX or STI, if you are not running a turbo'ed engine of course...
The 500lbs of weight makes a world of difference.
The 500lbs of weight makes a world of difference.
| ralliharri | 02-06-2007 10:57 AM |
Well, looks like I'm getting an ITR, pretty excited to own an icon, even if it's not as fast as it once was. But I believe it can be plenty fast at the track without too much money thrown at it. With the WRX it eats gas and tires as there's no tomorrow, calculated I got 9 mpg at Buttonwillow and I'm sure it's less at Willow Springs, 3 sessions and it tank almost empty. I know, good reason to fill up w/ race gas at the track but at what, $5-6/gal? What I would like now is getting something like an '97-98 RS coupe (think that's the year and model), you know, when they first came to US, those are cool cars, for an daily driver.
| J!M | 02-06-2007 11:59 AM |
FYI, I got about 8-9 mpg at the track with my ITR, so you won't be saving much there.
Jim
Jim
| Warp3 | 02-06-2007 12:04 PM |
[QUOTE=ralliharri;16949155]What I would like now is getting something like an '97-98 RS coupe (think that's the year and model), you know, when they first came to US, those are cool cars, for an daily driver.[/QUOTE]
1998-2001 were the first generation of 2.5RSs. The 99-01s have slightly better engines though and things like cams are cheaper since they are SOHC (vs the DOHC 98 engine).
-Shane
(former 99RS owner)
1998-2001 were the first generation of 2.5RSs. The 99-01s have slightly better engines though and things like cams are cheaper since they are SOHC (vs the DOHC 98 engine).
-Shane
(former 99RS owner)
| JTJ 2.5 | 02-06-2007 12:05 PM |
The RS sedans of the same time are only like 5lbs heavier.
| jasonallenross | 02-06-2007 12:23 PM |
I go to track days with the BMW club so I may be biased, but I would go for the BMW -- there are simply more (aftermarket) options for it.
Plus, the power goes to the correct set of wheels :)
My second choice would be Miata.
Plus, the power goes to the correct set of wheels :)
My second choice would be Miata.
| bignels | 02-06-2007 12:31 PM |
[quote=STi-MAN;16930133]ITR's get stolen pretty quick also...[/quote]
I had a GSR ~> ITR conversion (engine, suspension and all) and it was stolen last June. I only had the car for about 3 years :(
I'm going to go cry now. kbai
I had a GSR ~> ITR conversion (engine, suspension and all) and it was stolen last June. I only had the car for about 3 years :(
I'm going to go cry now. kbai
| Paisan | 02-06-2007 12:59 PM |
[QUOTE=ralliharri;16949155]What I would like now is getting something like an '97-98 RS coupe (think that's the year and model), you know, when they first came to US, those are cool cars, for an daily driver.[/QUOTE]
Makes me want to cry :( The fact that people on this board don't know the heritage of these cars. Back in the day, before the WRX and every kid and their mother had a WRX, all we had was the RS. Heck if it wasn't for the RS coming here in '98 there would be no WRX. Sad sad days :(
-mike
Makes me want to cry :( The fact that people on this board don't know the heritage of these cars. Back in the day, before the WRX and every kid and their mother had a WRX, all we had was the RS. Heck if it wasn't for the RS coming here in '98 there would be no WRX. Sad sad days :(
-mike
| Patrick Olsen | 02-06-2007 01:03 PM |
I feel ya, dawg. I've had someone in an STI next to me in traffic express surprise that my 2.5GT doesn't have a turbo. :rolleyes: (Which is part of the reason why my license plate is now "NO TRBO".)
Pat
Pat
| Patrick Olsen | 02-06-2007 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen;16941758]It was my first track day. He had several under his belt... His car pushed and went in the dirt while I stayed on his ass the whole corner. I just had more grip, and that was with my old car which is a bit slower than my current car in the corners ;) [/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, # of track days and level of on-track driving prowess are not necessarily proportional. If he was pushing so much he was going into the dirt then I would submit that he didn't know how to drive.
Pat
Unfortunately, # of track days and level of on-track driving prowess are not necessarily proportional. If he was pushing so much he was going into the dirt then I would submit that he didn't know how to drive.
Pat
| Paisan | 02-06-2007 01:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;16950876]I feel ya, dawg. I've had someone in an STI next to me in traffic express surprise that my 2.5GT doesn't have a turbo. :rolleyes: (Which is part of the reason why my license plate is now "NO TRBO".)
Pat[/QUOTE]
I stick with AWD 4ME, love my plate, I've had it from my XT6->XT6->SVX->Legacy Turbo
-mike
PS: If they don't know what years the RS coupe was, anyone want to lay odds they have even heard of an XT6 or an SVX????? Haaaaaa
Pat[/QUOTE]
I stick with AWD 4ME, love my plate, I've had it from my XT6->XT6->SVX->Legacy Turbo
-mike
PS: If they don't know what years the RS coupe was, anyone want to lay odds they have even heard of an XT6 or an SVX????? Haaaaaa
| Kostamojen | 02-06-2007 01:50 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;16950980]Unfortunately, # of track days and level of on-track driving prowess are not necessarily proportional. If he was pushing so much he was going into the dirt then I would submit that he didn't know how to drive.
Pat[/QUOTE]
It wasnt an off, but he did get hits front right tire into the dirt after turn 11 at Thunderhill. He basically understeered off the track while I was right behind him (he passed me going into into corner 10) and I easily had 10-15% more grip than him when cornering, and like I said that was my old car which is slower in the corners than my current car... He was a pretty good driver, as it was during the open-track part of the day and he was in the advanced group I believe (while I was with the n00bs).
The only car that passed me that day in a corner was a race-preped miata with r-compounds driven by one of my instructors :p I think AWD + lightweight is more potent than people expect.
Now don't get me wrong, I like Type-R's, but I think old Impreza coupes with the right engine match up very well with them. I've been looking at the specifications of the two cars, and i'm finding a lot of simularities I didnt expect.
Pat[/QUOTE]
It wasnt an off, but he did get hits front right tire into the dirt after turn 11 at Thunderhill. He basically understeered off the track while I was right behind him (he passed me going into into corner 10) and I easily had 10-15% more grip than him when cornering, and like I said that was my old car which is slower in the corners than my current car... He was a pretty good driver, as it was during the open-track part of the day and he was in the advanced group I believe (while I was with the n00bs).
The only car that passed me that day in a corner was a race-preped miata with r-compounds driven by one of my instructors :p I think AWD + lightweight is more potent than people expect.
Now don't get me wrong, I like Type-R's, but I think old Impreza coupes with the right engine match up very well with them. I've been looking at the specifications of the two cars, and i'm finding a lot of simularities I didnt expect.
| ralliharri | 02-06-2007 03:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Paisan;16950815]Makes me want to cry :( The fact that people on this board don't know the heritage of these cars. Back in the day, before the WRX and every kid and their mother had a WRX, all we had was the RS. Heck if it wasn't for the RS coming here in '98 there would be no WRX. Sad sad days :(
-mike[/QUOTE]
Well sorry if I dont keep track of all the US models, first time I wanted an Subaru was when I did a photoshoot for a Swedish Grp N rallyteam for a white WRX and I later got to sit and drive the car around the block, this was in November '98.
-mike[/QUOTE]
Well sorry if I dont keep track of all the US models, first time I wanted an Subaru was when I did a photoshoot for a Swedish Grp N rallyteam for a white WRX and I later got to sit and drive the car around the block, this was in November '98.
| Impreza01 | 02-06-2007 04:32 PM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen;16951572]It wasnt an off, but he did get hits front right tire into the dirt after turn 11 at Thunderhill. He basically understeered off the track while I was right behind him (he passed me going into into corner 10) and I easily had 10-15% more grip than him when cornering, and like I said that was my old car which is slower in the corners than my current car... He was a pretty good driver, as it was during the open-track part of the day and he was in the advanced group I believe (while I was with the n00bs).
The only car that passed me that day in a corner was a race-preped miata with r-compounds driven by one of my instructors :p I think AWD + lightweight is more potent than people expect.
Now don't get me wrong, I like Type-R's, but I think old Impreza coupes with the right engine match up very well with them. I've been looking at the specifications of the two cars, and i'm finding a lot of simularities I didnt expect.[/QUOTE]
Nah, you out drove him (which is a good thing because money buys a better car but money can't buy better skills). I remember watching a race between a DC2 Integra Type R and a GC8 WRX STi Type R version III. The STi murdered the ITR on corner exit acceleration (thanks to AWD and a turbocharger). The ITR beat it in braking and carrying speed through the corners (thanks to 2600 lb weight and double-wishbone suspension all-around). Here's a BM vid: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-kXXHDc6Yw[/url]
Thunderhill is pretty much a handling course. The straightways are pretty short except from Turn 15 to Turn 1 where a WRX can hit 100+mph, so a well-driven Integra Type R can hang well.
OP: If you had the cash, go for the E36 M3. However, I think the ITR will be more reliable as the years wear on the car and probably cheaper if you kept it for the long-term.
The only car that passed me that day in a corner was a race-preped miata with r-compounds driven by one of my instructors :p I think AWD + lightweight is more potent than people expect.
Now don't get me wrong, I like Type-R's, but I think old Impreza coupes with the right engine match up very well with them. I've been looking at the specifications of the two cars, and i'm finding a lot of simularities I didnt expect.[/QUOTE]
Nah, you out drove him (which is a good thing because money buys a better car but money can't buy better skills). I remember watching a race between a DC2 Integra Type R and a GC8 WRX STi Type R version III. The STi murdered the ITR on corner exit acceleration (thanks to AWD and a turbocharger). The ITR beat it in braking and carrying speed through the corners (thanks to 2600 lb weight and double-wishbone suspension all-around). Here's a BM vid: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-kXXHDc6Yw[/url]
Thunderhill is pretty much a handling course. The straightways are pretty short except from Turn 15 to Turn 1 where a WRX can hit 100+mph, so a well-driven Integra Type R can hang well.
OP: If you had the cash, go for the E36 M3. However, I think the ITR will be more reliable as the years wear on the car and probably cheaper if you kept it for the long-term.
| Kostamojen | 02-06-2007 05:53 PM |
I thought thunderhill was a bit too straight :p Only between corners 1-6 is it a handling course, the rest is just a couple turns amongst a lot of straight track :(
| Impreza01 | 02-06-2007 06:11 PM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen;16955179]I thought thunderhill was a bit too straight :p Only between corners 1-6 is it a handling course, the rest is just a couple turns amongst a lot of straight track :([/QUOTE]
Nah, I was talking to the instructors. They agree it's a handling track. The proof they used was the Spec Miatas were beating up the Vette Z06s and pissing off many Vette owners. :devil:
Nah, I was talking to the instructors. They agree it's a handling track. The proof they used was the Spec Miatas were beating up the Vette Z06s and pissing off many Vette owners. :devil:
| Kostamojen | 02-06-2007 09:39 PM |
Vette owners are pussies anyway :p ;)
But yes, a good handling car basically owns everything for the first half of the track, then the fast-in-the straights cars start catching up the last half.
I bet the vettes have an aweful time on that off-camber hill on corner 4, while the spec miatas just eat it up like its not there.
But yes, a good handling car basically owns everything for the first half of the track, then the fast-in-the straights cars start catching up the last half.
I bet the vettes have an aweful time on that off-camber hill on corner 4, while the spec miatas just eat it up like its not there.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 02-06-2007 09:49 PM |
Haven't read the whole thread, but if you have the money to buy a M3 or ITR, why not just keep tracking the Subie?
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