| crystalhelix | 02-01-2007 03:51 PM |
Why not? J-rho's gone easter green...
[img]http://www.chanconsult.com/j_rho/rearsusp.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.chanconsult.com/j_rho/rearsusp.jpg[/img]
| maxQ | 02-01-2007 05:18 PM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;16896086]Why not? J-rho's gone easter green...
[img]http://www.chanconsult.com/j_rho/rearsusp.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
A tie rod on the rear?
I guess it makes it easier to implement HICAS?
Sure is pretty though....
[img]http://www.chanconsult.com/j_rho/rearsusp.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
A tie rod on the rear?
I guess it makes it easier to implement HICAS?
Sure is pretty though....
| crystalhelix | 02-02-2007 10:02 AM |
Anyone have any good advice to installing the super pro LL bushings? I was going to beat them in with a dead blow hammer. The rest are all split bushings and self explanatory.
| RainMaker | 02-02-2007 10:22 AM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;16896086]Why not? J-rho's gone easter green...[/quote]
The dinner-mint-green suspension makes a great point for me.
Kinda reminds me of Immodium AD.
Whats wrong with a nice white... or light grey? Someone once said silver was the lightest paint.
The dinner-mint-green suspension makes a great point for me.
Kinda reminds me of Immodium AD.
Whats wrong with a nice white... or light grey? Someone once said silver was the lightest paint.
| BIGSKYWRX | 02-02-2007 10:46 AM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;16904743]Anyone have any good advice to installing the super pro LL bushings? I was going to beat them in with a dead blow hammer. The rest are all split bushings and self explanatory.[/QUOTE]
Not sure how much they differ form the hardened rubber bushings, I've borked several Grp N bushings not being careful :( (poly might be much more forgiving???)
I use the same cheap Harbor Freight C press that Nick shows in scoobymods- probably have done 20 or so LL sets using it.
Not sure how much they differ form the hardened rubber bushings, I've borked several Grp N bushings not being careful :( (poly might be much more forgiving???)
I use the same cheap Harbor Freight C press that Nick shows in scoobymods- probably have done 20 or so LL sets using it.
| GreasedLightning | 02-02-2007 04:55 PM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;16904743]Anyone have any good advice to installing the super pro LL bushings? I was going to beat them in with a dead blow hammer. The rest are all split bushings and self explanatory.[/QUOTE]
Use a press and a cone shaped adapter or you may tear the flanges.
Use a press and a cone shaped adapter or you may tear the flanges.
| GSRNick | 02-02-2007 07:44 PM |
[QUOTE=sciolist;16896031]^This might also be a Pitt thing.[/QUOTE]
Hey woah not fair!
Just because I painted my kitchen walls bright green and Justin has yellow trailing arms doesn't mean its a Pitt thing...
Although I was thinking about going neon yellow on my wheels this year...
Hey woah not fair!
Just because I painted my kitchen walls bright green and Justin has yellow trailing arms doesn't mean its a Pitt thing...
Although I was thinking about going neon yellow on my wheels this year...
| crystalhelix | 02-02-2007 09:36 PM |
OK...all-nighter update..
I got 1 TA back on the car, 8 LL bushings pressed in succesfully, progress is being made, woot
greased lightning, had a massive failure with the PVC coupling you made, lol.
went to lowes and picked up a 2" steel pipe 4 inches long, worked great so far..
will post as the night goes on...
oh....and Go Pitt!
I got 1 TA back on the car, 8 LL bushings pressed in succesfully, progress is being made, woot
greased lightning, had a massive failure with the PVC coupling you made, lol.
went to lowes and picked up a 2" steel pipe 4 inches long, worked great so far..
will post as the night goes on...
oh....and Go Pitt!
| crystalhelix | 02-03-2007 01:51 AM |
56k=die
bling bling....all done..all in all I'd have to say the superpro bushings make a really tight fit.
[IMG]http://www.spryracing.com/images/cars/subaru/2004STi/20070203PaintedSusp/DSCF5971.JPG[/IMG]
bling bling....all done..all in all I'd have to say the superpro bushings make a really tight fit.
[IMG]http://www.spryracing.com/images/cars/subaru/2004STi/20070203PaintedSusp/DSCF5971.JPG[/IMG]
| burned | 02-03-2007 03:39 AM |
Soory that i found this topic so late and you have allready done it. Whit stock rear control arms (yours are mearly painted) there is great danger that they will break at wealding points! These pices of **** break under force when going really fast on tarmac rallies we have broken three pairs of them they are not engineerd for such forces that come up because of the hard busshings! I would certinly change them or leave the normal ruber in.
| crystalhelix | 02-03-2007 10:34 AM |
I think a lot of people have had success with them for autocross.
| BIGSKYWRX | 02-03-2007 10:45 AM |
Group N cars have pretty good luck with them :)
| Grant | 02-07-2007 03:18 PM |
[QUOTE=burned;16916215]Soory that i found this topic so late and you have allready done it. Whit stock rear control arms (yours are mearly painted) there is great danger that they will break at wealding points! These pices of **** break under force when going really fast on tarmac rallies we have broken three pairs of them they are not engineerd for such forces that come up because of the hard busshings! I would certinly change them or leave the normal ruber in.[/QUOTE]
I'd imagine the breakage only occurs in the rear, correct? MacStruts should be able to tolerate non-compliance bushings (like Delrin) without any binding, but I can see how the rear trailing arm and such things would have issues. Most of the camber and geometery problems are in the front, so it seems like the front LCA bushings would be the ones to make in Derlin. I'd probably buy a set.
I'd imagine the breakage only occurs in the rear, correct? MacStruts should be able to tolerate non-compliance bushings (like Delrin) without any binding, but I can see how the rear trailing arm and such things would have issues. Most of the camber and geometery problems are in the front, so it seems like the front LCA bushings would be the ones to make in Derlin. I'd probably buy a set.
| Patrick Olsen | 02-07-2007 04:30 PM |
The issue of bind with all solid bushings in the rear is pretty interesting. Even if you don't go with solid (Delrin or whatever) bushings there's certainly going to be more bind with poly bushings compared to rubber bushings. Of course, I say that now, but I have to admit I didn't really think of that when I installed all poly bushings in my lateral links and trailing arms. :) I wonder what the difference would be between doing all poly vs. maybe leaving the front trailing arm bushing as rubber (either stock or Group N)? That would allow the trailing arm a little more freedom of movement. Or would it better to leave some rubber in one end of the lateral links? It would be interesting to see some data on wheel rate due to bind as you cycle the suspension with rubber vs. all poly vs. not quite all poly.
[i]Aside: On a somewhat related note, the '79-04 Mustang live axle rear suspension uses a primitive 4-link rear suspension (Ford called it the Quadra-link). Basically, the axle is located side-to-side by angled upper control arms, while the lower control arms were nearly straight fore-and-aft. [URL="http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_rear_control_arms.jpg"][U]Like so[/U][/URL]. A popular modification has always been to replace the rear control arm bushings with poly ones - great for drag racing, horrible for any sort of cornering, because it leads to huge bushing bind and a sharp increase in wheel rate leading to snap oversteer as those 4 non-parallel arms have to try to twist and change length. The corner-carving Mustang crowd refers to the Quadra-link as the Quadra-[i]bind[/i] as a result. Maximum Motorsports, a Mustang tuner, did some testing to show just how bad the wheel rate changes were. I have a torque arm/panhard bar setup back there now, and even with spring rates nearly 3x higher than stock, my rear suspension is more comfortable and articulates more freely because the crappy Quadra-bind geometry is no more. Obviously, Subaru's independent rear suspension geometry isn't nearly as bad, but I'd still be interested to see how pronounced the change is wheel rate is with firm bushings throughout.[/i] (Aside complete)
One thing I noticed with the Powerflex poly bushings that I've installed is that pretty much all of them were too big, such that the bushing was in heavy contact with the suspension mount once the bolt was tightened down on the sleeve. Not sure if that makes any sense, so here's a picture with my awesome MSPaint skillz to hopefully make more sense:
[img]http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/bushing%20bind.jpg[/img]
All the Powerflex bushings looked like the left (BAD) end, so as you tighten the bolt down onto the bushing sleeve, the flange portion of the bushing is getting pretty well pinched/squeezed in there. That creates some bind, even when you lube that face of the bushing up with the provided grease. You really want it to look more like the right (GOOD) end, and actually I could have drawn it a little better, as ideally the bushing won't really be touching the suspension mount at all (or just barely).
Pat
[i]Aside: On a somewhat related note, the '79-04 Mustang live axle rear suspension uses a primitive 4-link rear suspension (Ford called it the Quadra-link). Basically, the axle is located side-to-side by angled upper control arms, while the lower control arms were nearly straight fore-and-aft. [URL="http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_rear_control_arms.jpg"][U]Like so[/U][/URL]. A popular modification has always been to replace the rear control arm bushings with poly ones - great for drag racing, horrible for any sort of cornering, because it leads to huge bushing bind and a sharp increase in wheel rate leading to snap oversteer as those 4 non-parallel arms have to try to twist and change length. The corner-carving Mustang crowd refers to the Quadra-link as the Quadra-[i]bind[/i] as a result. Maximum Motorsports, a Mustang tuner, did some testing to show just how bad the wheel rate changes were. I have a torque arm/panhard bar setup back there now, and even with spring rates nearly 3x higher than stock, my rear suspension is more comfortable and articulates more freely because the crappy Quadra-bind geometry is no more. Obviously, Subaru's independent rear suspension geometry isn't nearly as bad, but I'd still be interested to see how pronounced the change is wheel rate is with firm bushings throughout.[/i] (Aside complete)
One thing I noticed with the Powerflex poly bushings that I've installed is that pretty much all of them were too big, such that the bushing was in heavy contact with the suspension mount once the bolt was tightened down on the sleeve. Not sure if that makes any sense, so here's a picture with my awesome MSPaint skillz to hopefully make more sense:
[img]http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/bushing%20bind.jpg[/img]
All the Powerflex bushings looked like the left (BAD) end, so as you tighten the bolt down onto the bushing sleeve, the flange portion of the bushing is getting pretty well pinched/squeezed in there. That creates some bind, even when you lube that face of the bushing up with the provided grease. You really want it to look more like the right (GOOD) end, and actually I could have drawn it a little better, as ideally the bushing won't really be touching the suspension mount at all (or just barely).
Pat
| BIGSKYWRX | 02-08-2007 09:25 AM |
Interesting.
| crystalhelix | 02-08-2007 09:59 AM |
P.Olsen, this is the same thing I see with the super pro bushings. I can't comment on their effect yet as I have only driven the car 50 feet since I put them in.
I was most concerned about this with regards to the eccentric settings on the toe bushing as to whether it would hold it's position as well. We'll see.
I was most concerned about this with regards to the eccentric settings on the toe bushing as to whether it would hold it's position as well. We'll see.
| Patrick Olsen | 02-08-2007 02:08 PM |
When I had to replace my left rear axle I took the opportunity to shave the bushing faces down a bit on the outer lateral link bushings and the rear trailing arm bushing. Still not perfect, as I did it as kind of an afterthought and didn't fee like investing much time in it, but one of these days I'll pull everything off and do it right. I don't know how much of a difference it really makes, but it certainly can't hurt.
Pat
Pat
| crystalhelix | 02-08-2007 02:52 PM |
I think it keeps 2 piece bushings in place to have those flanges on there, otherwise they would shift, that's my only explanation.
| Calamity Jesus | 02-08-2007 03:06 PM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;16904743]Anyone have any good advice to installing the super pro LL bushings? I was going to beat them in with a dead blow hammer. The rest are all split bushings and self explanatory.[/QUOTE]BIGSKY's advice was solid, but I just wanted to add this for anyone else thinking of 'pounding' them in.
Are you familiar with cornstarch? Urethane bushings act very similarly. Give them a shock load (like a hammer blow) and they'll resist movement. Push with steady pressure and they move easily. I learned this the hard way after 10 minutes of pounding on some Energy Suspension bushings on my Escort years ago.
Are you familiar with cornstarch? Urethane bushings act very similarly. Give them a shock load (like a hammer blow) and they'll resist movement. Push with steady pressure and they move easily. I learned this the hard way after 10 minutes of pounding on some Energy Suspension bushings on my Escort years ago.
| crystalhelix | 02-08-2007 03:48 PM |
thanks BB, I used a "all-thread" contraption I came up with, it was easy but it took a while...
| Patrick Olsen | 02-08-2007 11:06 PM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;16980699]I think it keeps 2 piece bushings in place to have those flanges on there, otherwise they would shift, that's my only explanation.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I'm sure that's why they're shaped that way, and just to clarify I'm not saying you should completely lop off the flange portion of the poly. You just want to shave it down so the metal sleeve in the center of the bushing is what contacts the suspension mount first.
Pat
Oh, I'm sure that's why they're shaped that way, and just to clarify I'm not saying you should completely lop off the flange portion of the poly. You just want to shave it down so the metal sleeve in the center of the bushing is what contacts the suspension mount first.
Pat
| din | 08-17-2007 10:33 PM |
Since this is a problem, have noticed any negative affects due to this problem? or can you also tell me the how this problem affects the car/suspension in the longrun?
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;16968428]The issue of bind with all solid bushings in the rear is pretty interesting. Even if you don't go with solid (Delrin or whatever) bushings there's certainly going to be more bind with poly bushings compared to rubber bushings. Of course, I say that now, but I have to admit I didn't really think of that when I installed all poly bushings in my lateral links and trailing arms. :) I wonder what the difference would be between doing all poly vs. maybe leaving the front trailing arm bushing as rubber (either stock or Group N)? That would allow the trailing arm a little more freedom of movement. Or would it better to leave some rubber in one end of the lateral links? It would be interesting to see some data on wheel rate due to bind as you cycle the suspension with rubber vs. all poly vs. not quite all poly.
[i]Aside: On a somewhat related note, the '79-04 Mustang live axle rear suspension uses a primitive 4-link rear suspension (Ford called it the Quadra-link). Basically, the axle is located side-to-side by angled upper control arms, while the lower control arms were nearly straight fore-and-aft. [URL="http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_rear_control_arms.jpg"][U]Like so[/U][/URL]. A popular modification has always been to replace the rear control arm bushings with poly ones - great for drag racing, horrible for any sort of cornering, because it leads to huge bushing bind and a sharp increase in wheel rate leading to snap oversteer as those 4 non-parallel arms have to try to twist and change length. The corner-carving Mustang crowd refers to the Quadra-link as the Quadra-[i]bind[/i] as a result. Maximum Motorsports, a Mustang tuner, did some testing to show just how bad the wheel rate changes were. I have a torque arm/panhard bar setup back there now, and even with spring rates nearly 3x higher than stock, my rear suspension is more comfortable and articulates more freely because the crappy Quadra-bind geometry is no more. Obviously, Subaru's independent rear suspension geometry isn't nearly as bad, but I'd still be interested to see how pronounced the change is wheel rate is with firm bushings throughout.[/i] (Aside complete)
One thing I noticed with the Powerflex poly bushings that I've installed is that pretty much all of them were too big, such that the bushing was in heavy contact with the suspension mount once the bolt was tightened down on the sleeve. Not sure if that makes any sense, so here's a picture with my awesome MSPaint skillz to hopefully make more sense:
[img]http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/bushing%20bind.jpg[/img]
All the Powerflex bushings looked like the left (BAD) end, so as you tighten the bolt down onto the bushing sleeve, the flange portion of the bushing is getting pretty well pinched/squeezed in there. That creates some bind, even when you lube that face of the bushing up with the provided grease. You really want it to look more like the right (GOOD) end, and actually I could have drawn it a little better, as ideally the bushing won't really be touching the suspension mount at all (or just barely).
Pat[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;16968428]The issue of bind with all solid bushings in the rear is pretty interesting. Even if you don't go with solid (Delrin or whatever) bushings there's certainly going to be more bind with poly bushings compared to rubber bushings. Of course, I say that now, but I have to admit I didn't really think of that when I installed all poly bushings in my lateral links and trailing arms. :) I wonder what the difference would be between doing all poly vs. maybe leaving the front trailing arm bushing as rubber (either stock or Group N)? That would allow the trailing arm a little more freedom of movement. Or would it better to leave some rubber in one end of the lateral links? It would be interesting to see some data on wheel rate due to bind as you cycle the suspension with rubber vs. all poly vs. not quite all poly.
[i]Aside: On a somewhat related note, the '79-04 Mustang live axle rear suspension uses a primitive 4-link rear suspension (Ford called it the Quadra-link). Basically, the axle is located side-to-side by angled upper control arms, while the lower control arms were nearly straight fore-and-aft. [URL="http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_rear_control_arms.jpg"][U]Like so[/U][/URL]. A popular modification has always been to replace the rear control arm bushings with poly ones - great for drag racing, horrible for any sort of cornering, because it leads to huge bushing bind and a sharp increase in wheel rate leading to snap oversteer as those 4 non-parallel arms have to try to twist and change length. The corner-carving Mustang crowd refers to the Quadra-link as the Quadra-[i]bind[/i] as a result. Maximum Motorsports, a Mustang tuner, did some testing to show just how bad the wheel rate changes were. I have a torque arm/panhard bar setup back there now, and even with spring rates nearly 3x higher than stock, my rear suspension is more comfortable and articulates more freely because the crappy Quadra-bind geometry is no more. Obviously, Subaru's independent rear suspension geometry isn't nearly as bad, but I'd still be interested to see how pronounced the change is wheel rate is with firm bushings throughout.[/i] (Aside complete)
One thing I noticed with the Powerflex poly bushings that I've installed is that pretty much all of them were too big, such that the bushing was in heavy contact with the suspension mount once the bolt was tightened down on the sleeve. Not sure if that makes any sense, so here's a picture with my awesome MSPaint skillz to hopefully make more sense:
[img]http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/bushing%20bind.jpg[/img]
All the Powerflex bushings looked like the left (BAD) end, so as you tighten the bolt down onto the bushing sleeve, the flange portion of the bushing is getting pretty well pinched/squeezed in there. That creates some bind, even when you lube that face of the bushing up with the provided grease. You really want it to look more like the right (GOOD) end, and actually I could have drawn it a little better, as ideally the bushing won't really be touching the suspension mount at all (or just barely).
Pat[/QUOTE]
| crystalhelix | 08-18-2007 12:50 AM |
Wtf?5
| Patrick Olsen | 08-18-2007 06:46 PM |
[QUOTE=din;19085489]Since this is a problem, have noticed any negative affects due to this problem? or can you also tell me the how this problem affects the car/suspension in the longrun?[/QUOTE]
As I said initially, the negative effect is that you're adding some unknown amount of wheel rate due to the bind that will be present between the bushing face and the bushing mount. I honestly don't know how pronouned an effect it really is. It's not going to damage your suspension long term or anything like that.
I still have yet to tear apart my rear suspension to "fix" the too-wide bushings. However, I am getting ready to install '04+ STI front control arms with poly front bushings, and I'm taking the time to shave those bushings down so they're not wider than the 55mm bushing sleeves.
Pat
As I said initially, the negative effect is that you're adding some unknown amount of wheel rate due to the bind that will be present between the bushing face and the bushing mount. I honestly don't know how pronouned an effect it really is. It's not going to damage your suspension long term or anything like that.
I still have yet to tear apart my rear suspension to "fix" the too-wide bushings. However, I am getting ready to install '04+ STI front control arms with poly front bushings, and I'm taking the time to shave those bushings down so they're not wider than the 55mm bushing sleeves.
Pat
| Storm | 08-18-2007 11:51 PM |
I can tell you that binding in the rear suspension leads to sideloading of the strut shafts, which can heat up to the point of causing the top seal to fail and/or score the shaft...to the point of bluing (as was the case on one of our Konis a few years back. I just took out a seal on one of my D2 cartridges due to this.
Jay Storm
Jay Storm
| chimchimm5 | 10-25-2007 06:19 PM |
[quote=crystalhelix;16881895]1/31/2007:banana:
After putting together for a more proper analysis here are my results of the lateral link bushings..
I labelled everything a little better and did a better comparison with the 4 "toe" adjustment location bushings I had.
From the results it looks like the group-n bushings are the stiffest in the toe adjust location (inside-rear) in compression.
For an analysis of the outter bushings I only had my stock STi bushings and SuperPro bushings to compare. As you can see the stock STi outer bushings and Poly bushings seem to have similar compression performance. It actually appears the STi stock bushings would have a better pre-loaded condition due to the diameter of the bushings. The inner bushings share the same characteristics.
[B]Also consider that the SuperPro bushings would provide higher torsional stability based on design (no dips at edge of support thus preventing torsional movement), and they will allow the suspension to move more free, this overall may provide a tighter feel and stability of the links so I am going to stick with installing the SuperPro bushings for now[/B]. This data is provided so you can do with it as you please.
One of my biggest questions comes from the stock STi toe bushing stiffness. Both this part and the WRX part are stamped with identical mold markings/numbers. But the data and physically sqeezing the parts shows the STi is softer for some reason (I did 3 blind tests with co-workers, FTW)
Feel free to ask questions,
Justin;)
SpryRacing.com
Bushings:
[URL]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/ToeBushings1.jpg[/URL]
[URL]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/ToeBushings2.jpg[/URL]
[URL]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/Outter_InnerBushings1.jpg[/URL]
[URL]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/Outter_InnerBushings2.jpg[/URL]
Graphical:
[IMG]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/20070131BushingTest2.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
How do you calculate Durometer values from this?
[QUOTE] Stock WRX - 64.2 M (from used car)
Stock 04 STi - 76.8 M (from car with 38,000 miles)
Group N - 71.9 M (brand new)
Super Pro - 72.3 M (brand new)
[/QUOTE]
In the above... the STi was an INNER rear lateral link bushing, while the rest were outer... what would the OUT rear lateral link bushing duro of the stock STi be?
After putting together for a more proper analysis here are my results of the lateral link bushings..
I labelled everything a little better and did a better comparison with the 4 "toe" adjustment location bushings I had.
From the results it looks like the group-n bushings are the stiffest in the toe adjust location (inside-rear) in compression.
For an analysis of the outter bushings I only had my stock STi bushings and SuperPro bushings to compare. As you can see the stock STi outer bushings and Poly bushings seem to have similar compression performance. It actually appears the STi stock bushings would have a better pre-loaded condition due to the diameter of the bushings. The inner bushings share the same characteristics.
[B]Also consider that the SuperPro bushings would provide higher torsional stability based on design (no dips at edge of support thus preventing torsional movement), and they will allow the suspension to move more free, this overall may provide a tighter feel and stability of the links so I am going to stick with installing the SuperPro bushings for now[/B]. This data is provided so you can do with it as you please.
One of my biggest questions comes from the stock STi toe bushing stiffness. Both this part and the WRX part are stamped with identical mold markings/numbers. But the data and physically sqeezing the parts shows the STi is softer for some reason (I did 3 blind tests with co-workers, FTW)
Feel free to ask questions,
Justin;)
SpryRacing.com
Bushings:
[URL]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/ToeBushings1.jpg[/URL]
[URL]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/ToeBushings2.jpg[/URL]
[URL]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/Outter_InnerBushings1.jpg[/URL]
[URL]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/Outter_InnerBushings2.jpg[/URL]
Graphical:
[IMG]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/20070131BushingTest2.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
How do you calculate Durometer values from this?
[QUOTE] Stock WRX - 64.2 M (from used car)
Stock 04 STi - 76.8 M (from car with 38,000 miles)
Group N - 71.9 M (brand new)
Super Pro - 72.3 M (brand new)
[/QUOTE]
In the above... the STi was an INNER rear lateral link bushing, while the rest were outer... what would the OUT rear lateral link bushing duro of the stock STi be?
| crystalhelix | 10-25-2007 11:55 PM |
I took durometer readings on teh surface of the bushing with a durometer gauge.
| zzyzx | 10-26-2007 11:26 AM |
One thing to note...
I wouldn't use material such as Delrin on the rear lateral links.
Explanation:
The rear is a tri-link strut suspension. The trailing arm locates the hub fore/aft (caster), the strut controls the tilt of the wheel (camber) and the lateral links control the toe.
In side view, you can visualize that the rear pivot point of the trailing arm travels in an arc. This indicates that there's is fore/aft movement of the wheel/hub assy. depending on where you are in the arc created by the trailing arm.
Now, if you look from plan view (above), this means that the two lateral links will move fore/aft together. In fact, they act together as a parallelogram to keep the wheel/hub assy. "parallel" as they move fore/aft, controlling toe.
This means that the attachment points of the lateral links move in two axes. The obvious one is in jounce (travel), the not so obvious one is the fore/aft movement. A material such as Delrin would likely cause unwanted binding in the fore/aft axis.
One way to avoid all this unwanted bind is to just use spherical bearings/rod ends like I did. ;)
I wouldn't use material such as Delrin on the rear lateral links.
Explanation:
The rear is a tri-link strut suspension. The trailing arm locates the hub fore/aft (caster), the strut controls the tilt of the wheel (camber) and the lateral links control the toe.
In side view, you can visualize that the rear pivot point of the trailing arm travels in an arc. This indicates that there's is fore/aft movement of the wheel/hub assy. depending on where you are in the arc created by the trailing arm.
Now, if you look from plan view (above), this means that the two lateral links will move fore/aft together. In fact, they act together as a parallelogram to keep the wheel/hub assy. "parallel" as they move fore/aft, controlling toe.
This means that the attachment points of the lateral links move in two axes. The obvious one is in jounce (travel), the not so obvious one is the fore/aft movement. A material such as Delrin would likely cause unwanted binding in the fore/aft axis.
One way to avoid all this unwanted bind is to just use spherical bearings/rod ends like I did. ;)
| crystalhelix | 10-26-2007 01:44 PM |
Not SP legal ;P
| BIGSKYWRX | 10-26-2007 02:50 PM |
nor ST* :)
| speedyHAM | 10-26-2007 09:11 PM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx;19832717]One thing to note...
I wouldn't use material such as Delrin on the rear lateral links.
Explanation:
The rear is a tri-link strut suspension. The trailing arm locates the hub fore/aft (caster), the strut controls the tilt of the wheel (camber) and the lateral links control the toe.
In side view, you can visualize that the rear pivot point of the trailing arm travels in an arc. This indicates that there's is fore/aft movement of the wheel/hub assy. depending on where you are in the arc created by the trailing arm.
Now, if you look from plan view (above), this means that the two lateral links will move fore/aft together. In fact, they act together as a parallelogram to keep the wheel/hub assy. "parallel" as they move fore/aft, controlling toe.
This means that the attachment points of the lateral links move in two axes. The obvious one is in jounce (travel), the not so obvious one is the fore/aft movement. A material such as Delrin would likely cause unwanted binding in the fore/aft axis.
One way to avoid all this unwanted bind is to just use spherical bearings/rod ends like I did. ;)[/QUOTE]
This has been covered several times in this thread.
I wouldn't use material such as Delrin on the rear lateral links.
Explanation:
The rear is a tri-link strut suspension. The trailing arm locates the hub fore/aft (caster), the strut controls the tilt of the wheel (camber) and the lateral links control the toe.
In side view, you can visualize that the rear pivot point of the trailing arm travels in an arc. This indicates that there's is fore/aft movement of the wheel/hub assy. depending on where you are in the arc created by the trailing arm.
Now, if you look from plan view (above), this means that the two lateral links will move fore/aft together. In fact, they act together as a parallelogram to keep the wheel/hub assy. "parallel" as they move fore/aft, controlling toe.
This means that the attachment points of the lateral links move in two axes. The obvious one is in jounce (travel), the not so obvious one is the fore/aft movement. A material such as Delrin would likely cause unwanted binding in the fore/aft axis.
One way to avoid all this unwanted bind is to just use spherical bearings/rod ends like I did. ;)[/QUOTE]
This has been covered several times in this thread.
| BIGSKYWRX | 01-15-2009 07:29 PM |
here's a pic comparing three outer lateral link bushings (need to ignore the inner STi one as it's a different bushing)
while the superpro is firmer than the oe bushing, the Grp N is firmer yet
[IMG]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/20070130BushingTest1.JPG[/IMG]
while the superpro is firmer than the oe bushing, the Grp N is firmer yet
[IMG]http://www.spryracing.com/projects/20070130BushingTest1.JPG[/IMG]
| sr20dehauler | 01-15-2009 07:56 PM |
What about the GrpN LL inner bushings? I tried to press in 2 GrpN LL outer bushings and failed miserably... I think I need to hone out the inside more if I try it again.
| BIGSKYWRX | 01-15-2009 10:31 PM |
you need to go very (very) slowly- if the bushing starts in at all crooked- start again
I use a sand flapper/die grinder to polish the inside, use lots of silicone grease
I use a sand flapper/die grinder to polish the inside, use lots of silicone grease
| Butt Dyno | 01-16-2009 12:01 AM |
Thanks for the bump :)
| williaty | 01-16-2009 12:09 AM |
[QUOTE=sr20dehauler;25207089]What about the GrpN LL inner bushings? I tried to press in 2 GrpN LL outer bushings and failed miserably... I think I need to hone out the inside more if I try it again.[/QUOTE]
Find my lateral link bushing swap tutorial on this forum. It's listed in the DIY Sticky in the suspension forum. It'll show you how to get them in successfully.
Find my lateral link bushing swap tutorial on this forum. It's listed in the DIY Sticky in the suspension forum. It'll show you how to get them in successfully.
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