| Kostamojen | 02-06-2007 10:28 PM |
[QUOTE=Impreza01;16953921][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-kXXHDc6Yw[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Thats interesting. It was the braking when I gained the most, and of course he outguned me out of the 2nd corner because I only had the 1.8... I think they key is that I was on 225's and my car weighed ~150lbs less than that GC In the vid.
[/QUOTE]
Thats interesting. It was the braking when I gained the most, and of course he outguned me out of the 2nd corner because I only had the 1.8... I think they key is that I was on 225's and my car weighed ~150lbs less than that GC In the vid.
| ralliharri | 02-06-2007 10:28 PM |
[QUOTE=DILLIGAF Racing;16958128]Haven't read the whole thread, but if you have the money to buy a M3 or ITR, why not just keep tracking the Subie?[/QUOTE]
Just do the math like posted in the beginning. I think a 4th grader can do the math, WRX= $24000 + racewheels + Konis + Cobb stg 2 + various other mods + insurance ($750/6 mo's) etc; ITR or M3, around $11k + racewheels...do I need to say more?
Just do the math like posted in the beginning. I think a 4th grader can do the math, WRX= $24000 + racewheels + Konis + Cobb stg 2 + various other mods + insurance ($750/6 mo's) etc; ITR or M3, around $11k + racewheels...do I need to say more?
| Paisan | 02-06-2007 10:31 PM |
[QUOTE=ralliharri;16958636]Just do the math like posted in the beginning. I think a 4th grader can do the math, WRX= $24000 + racewheels + Konis + Cobb stg 2 + various other mods + insurance ($750/6 mo's) etc; ITR or M3, around $11k + racewheels...do I need to say more?[/QUOTE]
What WRX is 24k? Used ones go for 10k-11k max.
-mike
What WRX is 24k? Used ones go for 10k-11k max.
-mike
| DILLIGAF Racing | 02-06-2007 10:37 PM |
[QUOTE=ralliharri;16958636]Just do the math like posted in the beginning. I think a 4th grader can do the math, WRX= $24000 + racewheels + Konis + Cobb stg 2 + various other mods + insurance ($750/6 mo's) etc; ITR or M3, around $11k + racewheels...do I need to say more?[/QUOTE]
wow, you can do math but can't read. What part of "I didn't read the whole thread" didn't you understand?
wow, you can do math but can't read. What part of "I didn't read the whole thread" didn't you understand?
| dsm02c | 02-06-2007 10:42 PM |
I know its OT but Spec Miata?
| DickWRX | 02-06-2007 10:54 PM |
Miata, Lightweight, cheap parts. More fun to drive.
| Paisan | 02-06-2007 10:57 PM |
Perhaps we should divert this discussion to Honda-Tech.com, BimmerForums.com or Specmiata.net instead of [SIZE="6"][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]NASIOC.com?????[/COLOR][/SIZE]
-mike
-mike
| Butt Dyno | 02-07-2007 08:43 AM |
[QUOTE=Paisan;16958965]Perhaps we should divert this discussion to Honda-Tech.com, BimmerForums.com or Specmiata.net instead of [SIZE="6"][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]NASIOC.com?????[/COLOR][/SIZE]
-mike[/QUOTE]I'd rather ask a Miata question on here than ask it on Miata.net :lol:
-mike[/QUOTE]I'd rather ask a Miata question on here than ask it on Miata.net :lol:
| JMS Landshark | 02-07-2007 10:19 AM |
Spec miatas often beat much "faster" cars around the track.
For bimmers, Spec E30 and Spec E36 would both be ALOT of fun. You don't need a M3 to make a good track car.
Personally, I would take a rwd track car over a fwd. Thats just preference.
For bimmers, Spec E30 and Spec E36 would both be ALOT of fun. You don't need a M3 to make a good track car.
Personally, I would take a rwd track car over a fwd. Thats just preference.
| Scoobie Doogie | 02-07-2007 12:46 PM |
[QUOTE=Paisan;16950815]Makes me want to cry :( The fact that people on this board don't know the heritage of these cars. Back in the day, before the WRX and every kid and their mother had a WRX, all we had was the RS. Heck if it wasn't for the RS coming here in '98 there would be no WRX. Sad sad days :(
-mike[/QUOTE]
I guess we're being infiltrated by "poser Subaru enthuiasts". Don't get your shorts all in a bunch Mike. Remember today is "back-in-the-day" for some enthuiasts just getting to know Subaru. Sounds like you should write a book (or web page) on Subaru's history in America. It'd be a nice contribution to help educate the unwashed masses. Give em' some time they'll get to know when they want to know.
Dave Mac
-mike[/QUOTE]
I guess we're being infiltrated by "poser Subaru enthuiasts". Don't get your shorts all in a bunch Mike. Remember today is "back-in-the-day" for some enthuiasts just getting to know Subaru. Sounds like you should write a book (or web page) on Subaru's history in America. It'd be a nice contribution to help educate the unwashed masses. Give em' some time they'll get to know when they want to know.
Dave Mac
| JoBoo | 02-07-2007 02:08 PM |
Interesting question...
I dont know much about the ITR and what it costs to run it, but I think we can all do the math. Other things that you might want to consider in your math, is what series you want to run the car in? What are the class rules, if any? How much you're willing to spend to be competative in each car. Most importantly how long you plan on owning the car? Factor the costs over that period of time and what if any residual value will be in the car after that time.
I assume you wouldnt be insuring it as its your 2nd car. Gotta also factor in replacement parts for things that WILL break on top of what you'll spend fixin'er up to begin with. Bimmers are damm expansive for parts, E36 parts are easier to come by than E30's. Subaru parts are getting cheaper (a bonus that most imprezas use almost all teh same parts)
Since your suub is getting on in age (relatively that is) you can also consider getting a less expensive DD, and tracking/racing the subaru. probably not what you want, but something to consider.
And the most difficult thing to put a value to is how much enjoyment you will have floggin the bish! Its just as important as $$$ if you're dropping that much cake to start with.
And if you still cant decide, then what option will you have to spend the least amount of time fighting 'old crusty car' syndrome :furious: :D
And if this is just for lapping/track days get a car you're gonna have fun driving & learning, not wrenching on (unless your into that sort of thing.. it gets old tho) getting a car that is already sorted is ALWAYS gonna be cheaper and less hassle than you doing it.
(been through this same argument a couple of times... and probably will do it again soon. I chose the STi FWIW)
I dont know much about the ITR and what it costs to run it, but I think we can all do the math. Other things that you might want to consider in your math, is what series you want to run the car in? What are the class rules, if any? How much you're willing to spend to be competative in each car. Most importantly how long you plan on owning the car? Factor the costs over that period of time and what if any residual value will be in the car after that time.
I assume you wouldnt be insuring it as its your 2nd car. Gotta also factor in replacement parts for things that WILL break on top of what you'll spend fixin'er up to begin with. Bimmers are damm expansive for parts, E36 parts are easier to come by than E30's. Subaru parts are getting cheaper (a bonus that most imprezas use almost all teh same parts)
Since your suub is getting on in age (relatively that is) you can also consider getting a less expensive DD, and tracking/racing the subaru. probably not what you want, but something to consider.
And the most difficult thing to put a value to is how much enjoyment you will have floggin the bish! Its just as important as $$$ if you're dropping that much cake to start with.
And if you still cant decide, then what option will you have to spend the least amount of time fighting 'old crusty car' syndrome :furious: :D
And if this is just for lapping/track days get a car you're gonna have fun driving & learning, not wrenching on (unless your into that sort of thing.. it gets old tho) getting a car that is already sorted is ALWAYS gonna be cheaper and less hassle than you doing it.
(been through this same argument a couple of times... and probably will do it again soon. I chose the STi FWIW)
| TubeDriver | 02-07-2007 04:09 PM |
Another vote for Miata. Super cheap to run, extremely tough with no real weakpoints and easy to work on.
My SOLO and street cars are all MUCH faster than my Miata but getting point-bys while instructing for SVTOA for example on Shenandoah goes a long way.
I would like to prep a S2000 for HC H1 and use it for DE as well but that is double the $$$ that I have in my Miata.
The list of good track cars is pretty long (spec Miata, spec E30, E36s, ITR, 944, etc). It really comes down to your budget. I personally prefer RWD (although I have owned a couple of integra and CRXs). I really did not warm up my STI on the track, maybe because I am used to much lighter cars.
My SOLO and street cars are all MUCH faster than my Miata but getting point-bys while instructing for SVTOA for example on Shenandoah goes a long way.
I would like to prep a S2000 for HC H1 and use it for DE as well but that is double the $$$ that I have in my Miata.
The list of good track cars is pretty long (spec Miata, spec E30, E36s, ITR, 944, etc). It really comes down to your budget. I personally prefer RWD (although I have owned a couple of integra and CRXs). I really did not warm up my STI on the track, maybe because I am used to much lighter cars.
| TubeDriver | 02-07-2007 04:10 PM |
[QUOTE=TubeDriver;16968124]Another vote for Miata. Super cheap to run, extremely tough with no real weakpoints and easy to work on.
My SOLO and street cars are all MUCH faster than my Miata but getting point-bys while instructing for SVTOA for example on Shenandoah goes a long way.
I would like to prep a S2000 for HC H1 and use it for DE as well but that is double the $$$ that I have in my Miata.
The list of good track cars is pretty long (spec Miata, spec E30, E36s, ITR, 944, etc). It really comes down to your budget. I personally prefer RWD (although I have owned a couple of integra and CRXs). I really did not warm up my STI on the track, maybe because I am used to much lighter cars.[/QUOTE]
[edit] oh yea, if you get a ITR it will get stolen, it is not an "if" but a "when".
My SOLO and street cars are all MUCH faster than my Miata but getting point-bys while instructing for SVTOA for example on Shenandoah goes a long way.
I would like to prep a S2000 for HC H1 and use it for DE as well but that is double the $$$ that I have in my Miata.
The list of good track cars is pretty long (spec Miata, spec E30, E36s, ITR, 944, etc). It really comes down to your budget. I personally prefer RWD (although I have owned a couple of integra and CRXs). I really did not warm up my STI on the track, maybe because I am used to much lighter cars.[/QUOTE]
[edit] oh yea, if you get a ITR it will get stolen, it is not an "if" but a "when".
| Paisan | 02-07-2007 04:37 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16965059]I guess we're being infiltrated by "poser Subaru enthuiasts". Don't get your shorts all in a bunch Mike. Remember today is "back-in-the-day" for some enthuiasts just getting to know Subaru. Sounds like you should write a book (or web page) on Subaru's history in America. It'd be a nice contribution to help educate the unwashed masses. Give em' some time they'll get to know when they want to know.
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
I hear yah, always trying to edumacate people. I only wish I still had my first XT6 still!
-mike
Dave Mac[/QUOTE]
I hear yah, always trying to edumacate people. I only wish I still had my first XT6 still!
-mike
| Jack | 02-07-2007 04:48 PM |
Some things you can consider:
Instead of an Integra type-R, which will be expensive to find, join the crowd and get an EG Civic Hatch with a swap already done, or do one yourself. A JDM B16 with LSD cable tranny from HMotors is about $1600. There are B18c1 swaps out there (gsr engine) and with a B16 head, you end up with better cam profile and higher compression....bingo...Type R setup. I currently have the B18c1 sitting on my garage floor to go into a 1600 pound 1st gen CRX racecar that I've raced for the past 4 years. I can tell you that stuff for these cars are Cheap! New rotors are $12. I just bought new/leftover Hoosier R3S05's for $116 each (225-45-13). The Hoosiers typically go hard before they wear out. A set of Carbotech XP8's are on their 3rd year and look new. I was able to go 2 full years without a brake fluid change.
Lots of local guys with subies are going to Honda track cars. The shelf life of head gaskets on STi's seems to be just short of 2 years of regular track use. In 4 years with the CRX, I don't think I've spent $10k...including the cost of the car!
jack
Instead of an Integra type-R, which will be expensive to find, join the crowd and get an EG Civic Hatch with a swap already done, or do one yourself. A JDM B16 with LSD cable tranny from HMotors is about $1600. There are B18c1 swaps out there (gsr engine) and with a B16 head, you end up with better cam profile and higher compression....bingo...Type R setup. I currently have the B18c1 sitting on my garage floor to go into a 1600 pound 1st gen CRX racecar that I've raced for the past 4 years. I can tell you that stuff for these cars are Cheap! New rotors are $12. I just bought new/leftover Hoosier R3S05's for $116 each (225-45-13). The Hoosiers typically go hard before they wear out. A set of Carbotech XP8's are on their 3rd year and look new. I was able to go 2 full years without a brake fluid change.
Lots of local guys with subies are going to Honda track cars. The shelf life of head gaskets on STi's seems to be just short of 2 years of regular track use. In 4 years with the CRX, I don't think I've spent $10k...including the cost of the car!
jack
| TubeDriver | 02-07-2007 04:50 PM |
My street beater is a 91 Legacy wagon (with 63k miles and hail damage).
[QUOTE=Paisan;16968538]I hear yah, always trying to edumacate people. I only wish I still had my first XT6 still!
-mike[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paisan;16968538]I hear yah, always trying to edumacate people. I only wish I still had my first XT6 still!
-mike[/QUOTE]
| Butt Dyno | 02-07-2007 10:47 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16965059]Sounds like you should write a book (or web page) on Subaru's history in America. [/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Where-Suckers-Moon-Advertising-Campaign/dp/0679740422[/url]
That's a good start :)
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Where-Suckers-Moon-Advertising-Campaign/dp/0679740422[/url]
That's a good start :)
| All4bSpinnin | 02-07-2007 11:05 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow;16930928]Okay I'll say it. Spec Miata.[/QUOTE]
the miatas are nasty, 50/50 weight ratio.... i watched a supercharged miata own every car at the last autox... even an sti with slicks and a fully built suspension...
Miata FTW
the miatas are nasty, 50/50 weight ratio.... i watched a supercharged miata own every car at the last autox... even an sti with slicks and a fully built suspension...
Miata FTW
| REX8 | 02-07-2007 11:18 PM |
[QUOTE=TubeDriver;16968124]Another vote for Miata. Super cheap to run, extremely tough with no real weakpoints and easy to work on.
My SOLO and street cars are all MUCH faster than my Miata but getting point-bys while instructing for SVTOA for example on Shenandoah goes a long way.
I would like to prep a S2000 for HC H1 and use it for DE as well but that is double the $$$ that I have in my Miata.
The list of good track cars is pretty long (spec Miata, spec E30, E36s, ITR, 944, etc). It really comes down to your budget. I personally prefer RWD (although I have owned a couple of integra and CRXs). I really did not warm up my STI on the track, maybe because I am used to much lighter cars.[/QUOTE]
The S2000 really struggles in H1. They're not close enough down the straights...its a shame because I'd like to see more of them in there.
My SOLO and street cars are all MUCH faster than my Miata but getting point-bys while instructing for SVTOA for example on Shenandoah goes a long way.
I would like to prep a S2000 for HC H1 and use it for DE as well but that is double the $$$ that I have in my Miata.
The list of good track cars is pretty long (spec Miata, spec E30, E36s, ITR, 944, etc). It really comes down to your budget. I personally prefer RWD (although I have owned a couple of integra and CRXs). I really did not warm up my STI on the track, maybe because I am used to much lighter cars.[/QUOTE]
The S2000 really struggles in H1. They're not close enough down the straights...its a shame because I'd like to see more of them in there.
| Hornswoggler | 02-08-2007 12:50 AM |
Will this be a street car at all or completely gutted and trailered?
If this will be a dual purpose street/track car, its not even a fair contest. I own both a 97 M3 and a 95 Integra GS-R sedan and the level of refinement between the two is night and day. Many ppl these days like to knock the e36 as being a simple interior, but everything, to this day, just "fits" right. Lots of things I take for granted in my e36 M3 until I hop in my Integra. I can elaborate, or you can take my word it's night and day. I would pick my e36 all day, every day (except in the snow, lol).
As most here have pointed out already, if given the choice, RWD FTW! While FWD , RWD, and even AWD can all be hustled around the track and make good laptimes in the right hands, nothing will provide the rewarding driving dynamics of RWD. And we do this for fun, right??? Fighting the steering wheel with FWD torque steer or corner exit understeer under power is not nearly as rewarding as throttle steering. If you had a choice between a FWD go-kart and a RWD go-kart... which would be more fun? We do track stuff for fun and enjoyment, not to fight wrong wheel drive.
e36 chassis has a solid racing background and very good aftermarket. It might not be honda or mustang huge, but there are some well designed and high quality parts for the e36 M3 that actually work and come with installation instructions. Not always the cheapest, but usually the same discriminating customer who buys an M3 will recognize the extra effort and quality that goes into a good aftermarket part (and is willing to pay a small premium). Both cars being naturally aspirated, its not as easy as increasing the boost so both cars will cost a pretty penny to add power.
I havent really looked into mods for my 95 Integra, but i couldnt ask for a better selection on the e36. I love both cars, they both serve a different purpose for me (GS-R = beater, e36 = summer pimp ride and track car), but if given teh choice for a "fun" car, e36 is a great choice. It's not the only choice, and I don;t want to come off like its the best car eva made... but it would be my pick for under $17k.
BTW, get a 97-99. There were improvements with every year and only got better. If anybody says 95 is best, their only argument is the ease of custom tuning but anything you need done to OBD-II you can buy a chip for ~$300 anyways. A naturally apirated 95 (3.0L) may have similar HP curve than my 97 (3.2 liter), but they will NEVER make the same torque. The 3.0L will always be about 10-20 ft-lbs down on power. 96+ had better front suspension, 97+ had a better water pump, 96+ had rear subframe reinforcements and front shock tower reinforcements, plus numerous other improvements.
Drive them both and report back! :-)
If this will be a dual purpose street/track car, its not even a fair contest. I own both a 97 M3 and a 95 Integra GS-R sedan and the level of refinement between the two is night and day. Many ppl these days like to knock the e36 as being a simple interior, but everything, to this day, just "fits" right. Lots of things I take for granted in my e36 M3 until I hop in my Integra. I can elaborate, or you can take my word it's night and day. I would pick my e36 all day, every day (except in the snow, lol).
As most here have pointed out already, if given the choice, RWD FTW! While FWD , RWD, and even AWD can all be hustled around the track and make good laptimes in the right hands, nothing will provide the rewarding driving dynamics of RWD. And we do this for fun, right??? Fighting the steering wheel with FWD torque steer or corner exit understeer under power is not nearly as rewarding as throttle steering. If you had a choice between a FWD go-kart and a RWD go-kart... which would be more fun? We do track stuff for fun and enjoyment, not to fight wrong wheel drive.
e36 chassis has a solid racing background and very good aftermarket. It might not be honda or mustang huge, but there are some well designed and high quality parts for the e36 M3 that actually work and come with installation instructions. Not always the cheapest, but usually the same discriminating customer who buys an M3 will recognize the extra effort and quality that goes into a good aftermarket part (and is willing to pay a small premium). Both cars being naturally aspirated, its not as easy as increasing the boost so both cars will cost a pretty penny to add power.
I havent really looked into mods for my 95 Integra, but i couldnt ask for a better selection on the e36. I love both cars, they both serve a different purpose for me (GS-R = beater, e36 = summer pimp ride and track car), but if given teh choice for a "fun" car, e36 is a great choice. It's not the only choice, and I don;t want to come off like its the best car eva made... but it would be my pick for under $17k.
BTW, get a 97-99. There were improvements with every year and only got better. If anybody says 95 is best, their only argument is the ease of custom tuning but anything you need done to OBD-II you can buy a chip for ~$300 anyways. A naturally apirated 95 (3.0L) may have similar HP curve than my 97 (3.2 liter), but they will NEVER make the same torque. The 3.0L will always be about 10-20 ft-lbs down on power. 96+ had better front suspension, 97+ had a better water pump, 96+ had rear subframe reinforcements and front shock tower reinforcements, plus numerous other improvements.
Drive them both and report back! :-)
| rbahr | 02-08-2007 10:46 AM |
Hornswoggler raises some good points. I had a 95 M3 which I tracked and liked it a lot, and at the time I got it, folks felt that this was the best handling year - out of the box. Trouble is we never leave well enough alone... so things can be embellished...
That said, the other IMPORTANT thing is that some of these cars are getting pretty old and the old adage of getting the best example you can afford is a good one. Miata parts (consumable and otherwise) are cheap and available, some Subaru parts are cheap - the short block is ~$1700... but the consumables can be expensive, I have a friend who went from a STi as a track car to a 996 as a track car and felt that the 996 was a lot less in maintenance costs... (not sure if I agree). Lots of other choices out there.
the other point Hornswoggler made that was completely appropriate was this is all about having fun - when it becomes a chore its time to move on... (my $0.02) - Important questions to answer include do you like to wrench in which case an older car is not a problem, if you like lots of torque as opposed to lots of handling then maybe an old Mustang is a good option, if you like handling then perhaps the Miata can be a good choice...
Good luck in your decision
Ray
That said, the other IMPORTANT thing is that some of these cars are getting pretty old and the old adage of getting the best example you can afford is a good one. Miata parts (consumable and otherwise) are cheap and available, some Subaru parts are cheap - the short block is ~$1700... but the consumables can be expensive, I have a friend who went from a STi as a track car to a 996 as a track car and felt that the 996 was a lot less in maintenance costs... (not sure if I agree). Lots of other choices out there.
the other point Hornswoggler made that was completely appropriate was this is all about having fun - when it becomes a chore its time to move on... (my $0.02) - Important questions to answer include do you like to wrench in which case an older car is not a problem, if you like lots of torque as opposed to lots of handling then maybe an old Mustang is a good option, if you like handling then perhaps the Miata can be a good choice...
Good luck in your decision
Ray
| Crystal STI | 02-08-2007 11:07 AM |
I found this one on eBay that sells for only 12.5K, and it's S/Ced!
[url=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-Integra-USA-Type-R-1-8-VTEC-w-Supercharger_W0QQitemZ220080312572QQihZ012QQcategoryZ5335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem]===>eBay[/url]
EDITED; nevermind, it's salvaged title.
[url=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-Integra-USA-Type-R-1-8-VTEC-w-Supercharger_W0QQitemZ220080312572QQihZ012QQcategoryZ5335QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem]===>eBay[/url]
EDITED; nevermind, it's salvaged title.
| TubeDriver | 02-08-2007 11:49 AM |
I think as used S2000 prices come down and more people attempt to run it that they will change the rules to make it a little more competetive with the hybrids. Right now the rules clearly favor hybrids.
[QUOTE=REX8;16973295]The S2000 really struggles in H1. They're not close enough down the straights...its a shame because I'd like to see more of them in there.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=REX8;16973295]The S2000 really struggles in H1. They're not close enough down the straights...its a shame because I'd like to see more of them in there.[/QUOTE]
| Subaru_555 | 02-08-2007 06:39 PM |
[QUOTE=cooleyjb;16930349]E30 M3 would be my only choice ahead of an E36 M3. Performance parts for all cars are expensive so I wouldn't care about looking for that between the M3 and ITR. HOwever you shoould do more research if you are looking at 95-97. Most BMW people I know tend to think the 95 is the obvious choice over the 96-97 for a couple of reasons that I don't necessairly remember.
The M3 was NOT built for the track as many people like to say. It is a luxury sport sedan. It however is a good candidate for the track beign that it is well balanced out of the box and has a very large aftermarket for speed parts. It has a few flaws that are constant among them and are easy to fix and are well documented. It still needs just as much suspension work as any other car you'd get. While the engine is strong out of the box there is always the desire for more power and you'd do the same mods to it as you would for any other car.[/QUOTE]
The first E30 M3 was a homologation special that was built in limited numbers for the road solely to allow BMW to race in Touring Car competition.
The M3 was NOT built for the track as many people like to say. It is a luxury sport sedan. It however is a good candidate for the track beign that it is well balanced out of the box and has a very large aftermarket for speed parts. It has a few flaws that are constant among them and are easy to fix and are well documented. It still needs just as much suspension work as any other car you'd get. While the engine is strong out of the box there is always the desire for more power and you'd do the same mods to it as you would for any other car.[/QUOTE]
The first E30 M3 was a homologation special that was built in limited numbers for the road solely to allow BMW to race in Touring Car competition.
| boosted_rs | 02-08-2007 09:54 PM |
[QUOTE=Impreza01;16953921]I remember watching a race between a DC2 Integra Type R and a GC8 WRX STi Type R version III. The STi murdered the ITR on corner exit acceleration (thanks to AWD and a turbocharger). The ITR beat it in braking and carrying speed through the corners (thanks to 2600 lb weight and double-wishbone suspension all-around). Here's a BM vid: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-kXXHDc6Yw[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Now that was a nice battle :banana:
[/QUOTE]
Now that was a nice battle :banana:
| Impreza01 | 02-08-2007 10:29 PM |
[QUOTE=boosted_rs;16986179]Now that was a nice battle :banana:[/QUOTE]
Yup! It was also very amusing hearing Gan-san in the DC2 Integra Type R say "Bakayaro" (translates to dumb eff) when the GC8 WRX STi Type R Version III beat out out of the last corner to the checkered flag.
Yup! It was also very amusing hearing Gan-san in the DC2 Integra Type R say "Bakayaro" (translates to dumb eff) when the GC8 WRX STi Type R Version III beat out out of the last corner to the checkered flag.
| Patrick Olsen | 02-08-2007 11:04 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie;16965059]Sounds like you should write a book (or web page) on Subaru's history in America. It'd be a nice contribution to help educate the unwashed masses. Give em' some time they'll get to know when they want to know.[/QUOTE]
[url]www.cars101.com[/url] - A pretty comprehensive site, I find myself going there pretty frequently to check specs, standard and optional equipment, etc etc.
[QUOTE=Hornswoggler;16974298]Will this be a street car at all or completely gutted and trailered?[/quote]
I was wondering the same thing. If it's going to be a dual-purpose car the options to be considered will be quite a bit different than what one might look at for a durable, relatively inexpensive, track-only car.
[quote=Hornswoggler]e36 chassis has a solid racing background and very good aftermarket. It might not be honda or mustang huge...[/QUOTE]
Speaking of Mustangs... :) If it's going to be a track-only car, a Fox-body or even SN95 Mustang can be a nice choice. Or, if you want to be a bit off the beaten path, pick up a '78-85 Ford Fairmont or Mercury Zephyr. Same Fox platform as the '79-93 Mustangs, but with a 5" longer wheelbase. Mustang suspension, brakes, and drivetrain will bolt right in, and the early stripper Fairmonts only weighed about 2600# from the factory. I plan to go that route in a couple years, once my Mustang is "done" and it's time for a new project.
[QUOTE=rbahr;16977207]Miata parts (consumable and otherwise) are cheap and available, some Subaru parts are cheap - the short block is ~$1700...[/quote]
Man, if a $1700 shortblock is your idea of "cheap" I'd hate to know what "expensive" is! ;)
[quote=rbahr]Important questions to answer include do you like to wrench in which case an older car is not a problem, if you like lots of torque as opposed to lots of handling then maybe an old Mustang is a good option, if you like handling then perhaps the Miata can be a good choice...[/QUOTE]
Hey, now! While a Mustang will never be a Miata, it is entirely possible to have a Mustang that handles [i]and[/i] has lots of torque. It just doesn't come that way out of the box like the Miata does.
I think [URL="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16949155&postcount=44"][U]ralliharri already decided back on page 2 of this thread[/U][/URL], so the rest of us are just typing because we like the way our words look on the screen. :)
Pat
[url]www.cars101.com[/url] - A pretty comprehensive site, I find myself going there pretty frequently to check specs, standard and optional equipment, etc etc.
[QUOTE=Hornswoggler;16974298]Will this be a street car at all or completely gutted and trailered?[/quote]
I was wondering the same thing. If it's going to be a dual-purpose car the options to be considered will be quite a bit different than what one might look at for a durable, relatively inexpensive, track-only car.
[quote=Hornswoggler]e36 chassis has a solid racing background and very good aftermarket. It might not be honda or mustang huge...[/QUOTE]
Speaking of Mustangs... :) If it's going to be a track-only car, a Fox-body or even SN95 Mustang can be a nice choice. Or, if you want to be a bit off the beaten path, pick up a '78-85 Ford Fairmont or Mercury Zephyr. Same Fox platform as the '79-93 Mustangs, but with a 5" longer wheelbase. Mustang suspension, brakes, and drivetrain will bolt right in, and the early stripper Fairmonts only weighed about 2600# from the factory. I plan to go that route in a couple years, once my Mustang is "done" and it's time for a new project.
[QUOTE=rbahr;16977207]Miata parts (consumable and otherwise) are cheap and available, some Subaru parts are cheap - the short block is ~$1700...[/quote]
Man, if a $1700 shortblock is your idea of "cheap" I'd hate to know what "expensive" is! ;)
[quote=rbahr]Important questions to answer include do you like to wrench in which case an older car is not a problem, if you like lots of torque as opposed to lots of handling then maybe an old Mustang is a good option, if you like handling then perhaps the Miata can be a good choice...[/QUOTE]
Hey, now! While a Mustang will never be a Miata, it is entirely possible to have a Mustang that handles [i]and[/i] has lots of torque. It just doesn't come that way out of the box like the Miata does.
I think [URL="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16949155&postcount=44"][U]ralliharri already decided back on page 2 of this thread[/U][/URL], so the rest of us are just typing because we like the way our words look on the screen. :)
Pat
| heet | 02-08-2007 11:37 PM |
[QUOTE=Jack ffr1846;16968679]Some things you can consider:
Instead of an Integra type-R, which will be expensive to find, join the crowd and get an EG Civic Hatch with a swap already done, or do one yourself. A JDM B16 with LSD cable tranny from HMotors is about $1600. There are B18c1 swaps out there (gsr engine) and with a B16 head, you end up with better cam profile and higher compression....bingo...Type R setup. I currently have the B18c1 sitting on my garage floor to go into a 1600 pound 1st gen CRX racecar that I've raced for the past 4 years. I can tell you that stuff for these cars are Cheap! New rotors are $12. I just bought new/leftover Hoosier R3S05's for $116 each (225-45-13). The Hoosiers typically go hard before they wear out. A set of Carbotech XP8's are on their 3rd year and look new. I was able to go 2 full years without a brake fluid change.
Lots of local guys with subies are going to Honda track cars. The shelf life of head gaskets on STi's seems to be just short of 2 years of regular track use. In 4 years with the CRX, I don't think I've spent $10k...including the cost of the car!
jack[/QUOTE]
I've seen these at track days and they are really quick. They are easy on tires and gas, too.
Instead of an Integra type-R, which will be expensive to find, join the crowd and get an EG Civic Hatch with a swap already done, or do one yourself. A JDM B16 with LSD cable tranny from HMotors is about $1600. There are B18c1 swaps out there (gsr engine) and with a B16 head, you end up with better cam profile and higher compression....bingo...Type R setup. I currently have the B18c1 sitting on my garage floor to go into a 1600 pound 1st gen CRX racecar that I've raced for the past 4 years. I can tell you that stuff for these cars are Cheap! New rotors are $12. I just bought new/leftover Hoosier R3S05's for $116 each (225-45-13). The Hoosiers typically go hard before they wear out. A set of Carbotech XP8's are on their 3rd year and look new. I was able to go 2 full years without a brake fluid change.
Lots of local guys with subies are going to Honda track cars. The shelf life of head gaskets on STi's seems to be just short of 2 years of regular track use. In 4 years with the CRX, I don't think I've spent $10k...including the cost of the car!
jack[/QUOTE]
I've seen these at track days and they are really quick. They are easy on tires and gas, too.
| ralliharri | 02-09-2007 12:08 AM |
Well, the deal fell through, the guy took my offer of $10500 and we were going to meet at the bank, 4 hours later he's on his way to OC to sell the car for 12 grand! Didn even call me back for me to counteroffer. So looks like I'm on the lookout for an M3. Thanks everybody for your inputs, it is going to be a streetable car. And since I live in the most expensive place in US ($1400 rent for one-bedroomers, median houseprices are 1.1 million), I dont have a garage so all work is been done in driveway so no big projects. I thought about a Miata earlier but feel it's a little slow, some of my trackdays are at Willow Springs. The ITR would've been nice, it's an icon after all, sure it's a FWD but at least it has an LSD. I did learn to drive with RWD (Volvo Amazon 123 GT, VW bug 1300cc and BMW 2800CS ) so they've always been my first love until my first AWD, Mitsu Eclipse GSX. Thanks Hornswoggler for your E36 inputs. Of course if I could afford it I'd have an STi or EVO for trackday and and my GGB for DD.
| estefania_rous | 02-09-2007 03:43 AM |
That's a good start :)
yes! that's really a good start dude :banana:
yes! that's really a good start dude :banana:
| JMS Landshark | 02-09-2007 07:29 AM |
wth the M3, one thing to keep an eye out for is the cooling system. If you have a car about 100k miles with the original cooling system then it will need some love. Need a new radiator, thermostat, waterpump, go ahead and get a aluminum thermostat housing, etc. The stock system gets tired and the radiator cracks.
Don't bother with big brake upgrades or anything unless you get pretty heavy into it, a second set of track pads will get plenty of performance out of the stock system.
Don't bother with big brake upgrades or anything unless you get pretty heavy into it, a second set of track pads will get plenty of performance out of the stock system.
| DILLIGAF Racing | 02-09-2007 10:47 AM |
[QUOTE=JMS Landshark;16989193]wth the M3, one thing to keep an eye out for is the cooling system. If you have a car about 100k miles with the original cooling system then it will need some love. Need a new radiator, thermostat, waterpump, go ahead and get a aluminum thermostat housing, etc. The stock system gets tired and the radiator cracks.
Don't bother with big brake upgrades or anything unless you get pretty heavy into it, a second set of track pads will get plenty of performance out of the stock system.[/QUOTE]
also make sure to replace the rear trailing arm bushings (I think its that one). They are always bad.
Don't bother with big brake upgrades or anything unless you get pretty heavy into it, a second set of track pads will get plenty of performance out of the stock system.[/QUOTE]
also make sure to replace the rear trailing arm bushings (I think its that one). They are always bad.
| JMS Landshark | 02-09-2007 11:16 AM |
[QUOTE=DILLIGAF Racing;16990666]also make sure to replace the rear trailing arm bushings (I think its that one). They are always bad.[/QUOTE]
there is a list!
Check the buibo as well. Thats the flex disk between the tranny and driveshaft. With age and loading it starts to crack and should be replaced. The performance of the car will be good, but bushings and that type of stuff doesnt start to get sloppy with age. It's no show stopper, but there are lots of little things that need to be replaced to drive a high mileage car hard.
there is a list!
Check the buibo as well. Thats the flex disk between the tranny and driveshaft. With age and loading it starts to crack and should be replaced. The performance of the car will be good, but bushings and that type of stuff doesnt start to get sloppy with age. It's no show stopper, but there are lots of little things that need to be replaced to drive a high mileage car hard.
| Hornswoggler | 02-09-2007 01:10 PM |
List here:
[url=http://www.edgemotorworks.com/checke36.htm]Edge Motorworks 75k mile list[/url]
+1 on the coolant system if it has not been addressed by previous owner.
[url=http://www.edgemotorworks.com/checke36.htm]Edge Motorworks 75k mile list[/url]
+1 on the coolant system if it has not been addressed by previous owner.
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