| MD04WRX | 06-19-2005 02:42 PM |
[QUOTE=Bonzo]un fricken belieaveable!!!!!
I put initial blame on Michelin for bringing sub-standard tires.
[/QUOTE]
I agree
I put initial blame on Michelin for bringing sub-standard tires.
[/QUOTE]
I agree
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 02:42 PM |
Points For All!!!!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
| pittspilot | 06-19-2005 02:44 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8]That makes no sense, tires failed in practice! They could fail after VERY few laps... They'd have to stop every lap to be sure. And the teams agreed to give Bridgestone all the points and still run the race....for the fans...FIA still wouldn't budge...[/QUOTE]
There is a huge problem with bypassing the rules to change the track. You can't just bypass rules anytime you want, or the rules become meaningless.
There is a huge problem with bypassing the rules to change the track. You can't just bypass rules anytime you want, or the rules become meaningless.
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 02:44 PM |
JPM's gonna steal the keys on the last lap, push start that piece, and grab 7th.
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 02:47 PM |
[QUOTE=pittspilot]There is a huge problem with bypassing the rules to change the track. You can't just bypass rules anytime you want, or the rules become meaningless.[/QUOTE]
You can bypass them on the rules of safety, which is exactly what Michelin wanted to do.
You can bypass them on the rules of safety, which is exactly what Michelin wanted to do.
| BHawk | 06-19-2005 02:47 PM |
This is bull ****!!! I can't believe this. F1 is so rediculous. Those stuck up ass holes at Ferrari should have agreed to the chicane. Those guys are a bunch of poor sportsmen. I am more disgusted at Ferrari than ever.
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 02:47 PM |
[QUOTE=pittspilot]There is a huge problem with bypassing the rules to change the track. You can't just bypass rules anytime you want, or the rules become meaningless.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100%. But I also feel you need to use sense and reason in extreme circumstances. Risking the reputation of the whole sport is surely one of those times to reexamine the rules.
Its also very dangerous and stupid to live life by black letter law. There are always unforeseen problems that the rulemakers never considered. They are all intelligent people and should be able to reasonably change rules in dire times...
I agree 100%. But I also feel you need to use sense and reason in extreme circumstances. Risking the reputation of the whole sport is surely one of those times to reexamine the rules.
Its also very dangerous and stupid to live life by black letter law. There are always unforeseen problems that the rulemakers never considered. They are all intelligent people and should be able to reasonably change rules in dire times...
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 02:48 PM |
[QUOTE=pittspilot]But that totally caters to Michelin, while ignoring all the development that Bridgestone has put in.
I think the teams and drivers had the obligation to run the race, and make twice the pit stops.[/QUOTE]
No, the teams were told not to run by their tire supplier. They can not run if they believe there is a safety issue.
I think the teams and drivers had the obligation to run the race, and make twice the pit stops.[/QUOTE]
No, the teams were told not to run by their tire supplier. They can not run if they believe there is a safety issue.
| Hotrodguru | 06-19-2005 02:49 PM |
WHOA! good point they just made on Speed. With the resurfacing of Indianapolis, IRL Indy cars had huge problems with their first practice session for the 500 and it actually had to be cancelled. The entire track surface then needed to be regrinded and fixed. Even NASCAR had to postpone their scheduled testing.
Here's the kicker, Firestone (Bridgestone sister company) ran at Indy and learned about the tire problems. Info probably made it's way over to Bridgestone and those sneaky suckers used the data from Firsestone to correct the known issue.
Guru
Here's the kicker, Firestone (Bridgestone sister company) ran at Indy and learned about the tire problems. Info probably made it's way over to Bridgestone and those sneaky suckers used the data from Firsestone to correct the known issue.
Guru
| Hotrodguru | 06-19-2005 02:49 PM |
WHOA! good point they just made on Speed. With the resurfacing of Indianapolis, IRL Indy cars had huge problems with their first practice session for the 500 and it actually had to be cancelled. The entire track surface then needed to be regrinded and fixed. Even NASCAR had to postpone their scheduled testing.
Here's the kicker, Firestone (Bridgestone sister company) ran at Indy and learned about the tire problems. Info probably made it's way over to Bridgestone and those sneaky suckers used the data from Firsestone to correct the known issue.
Guru
Here's the kicker, Firestone (Bridgestone sister company) ran at Indy and learned about the tire problems. Info probably made it's way over to Bridgestone and those sneaky suckers used the data from Firsestone to correct the known issue.
Guru
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 02:49 PM |
[QUOTE=BHawk]This is bull ****!!! I can't believe this. F1 is so rediculous. Those stuck up ass holes at Ferrari should have agreed to the chicane. Those guys are a bunch of poor sportsmen. I am more disgusted at Ferrari than ever.[/QUOTE]
You're a moron. Its not Ferrari who said they couldn't put in the chicane, it was Max Mosley.
You're a moron. Its not Ferrari who said they couldn't put in the chicane, it was Max Mosley.
| M. Hurst | 06-19-2005 02:52 PM |
And Bernie was critical of IMS for not promoting the event enough...
Is the Marion Co. Sheriff to arrest him on fraud charges?
Is the Marion Co. Sheriff to arrest him on fraud charges?
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 02:53 PM |
[QUOTE=M. Hurst]And Bernie was critical of IMS for not promoting the event enough...
Is the Marion Co. Sheriff to arrest him on fraud charges?[/QUOTE]
No...
Is the Marion Co. Sheriff to arrest him on fraud charges?[/QUOTE]
No...
| Gundoo | 06-19-2005 02:53 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]You're a moron. Its not Ferrari who said they couldn't put in the chicane, it was Max Mosley.[/QUOTE]
:lol: well he might be implying that ferrari has the last say in the sport, that they are actually in charge. *looks at member number, its +60k*
nevermind! carry on stubeck!
:lol: well he might be implying that ferrari has the last say in the sport, that they are actually in charge. *looks at member number, its +60k*
nevermind! carry on stubeck!
| TOMMY B | 06-19-2005 02:57 PM |
" You can bypass them on the rules of safety, which is exactly what Michelin wanted to do."
Michelin is to blame on this, The teams & the fans should take it out on them. thay bought some bad tires to the USA F-1 race why should Bridgestone take that crap ??
TOMMY B
RALLY ON ////////////////////////////
Michelin is to blame on this, The teams & the fans should take it out on them. thay bought some bad tires to the USA F-1 race why should Bridgestone take that crap ??
TOMMY B
RALLY ON ////////////////////////////
| Jtree | 06-19-2005 02:58 PM |
..."Fans are seen leaving the car parks in their droves"... frm BBC.
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 02:58 PM |
[QUOTE=Gundoo]:lol: well he might be implying that ferrari has the last say in the sport, that they are actually in charge. *looks at member number, its +60k*
nevermind! carry on stubeck![/QUOTE]
No, he's too much of an anti-ferrari fanboy to backup his stupid statement.
But of course, now that I'm calling him out he'll post something saying he's not in fact retarded.
nevermind! carry on stubeck![/QUOTE]
No, he's too much of an anti-ferrari fanboy to backup his stupid statement.
But of course, now that I'm calling him out he'll post something saying he's not in fact retarded.
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 03:01 PM |
[QUOTE=TOMMY B]" You can bypass them on the rules of safety, which is exactly what Michelin wanted to do."
Michelin is to blame on this, The teams & the fans should take it out on them. thay bought some bad tires to the USA F-1 race why should Bridgestone take that crap ??
TOMMY B
RALLY ON ////////////////////////////[/QUOTE]
First learn how to use the quote feature. Second, where did I state that Bridgestone should take the crap? From what I gather the teams were willing to give Bridgestone the top 6 points and run a non-championship round of the championship.
Michelin is to blame on this, The teams & the fans should take it out on them. thay bought some bad tires to the USA F-1 race why should Bridgestone take that crap ??
TOMMY B
RALLY ON ////////////////////////////[/QUOTE]
First learn how to use the quote feature. Second, where did I state that Bridgestone should take the crap? From what I gather the teams were willing to give Bridgestone the top 6 points and run a non-championship round of the championship.
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 03:01 PM |
[QUOTE=TOMMY B]" You can bypass them on the rules of safety, which is exactly what Michelin wanted to do."
Michelin is to blame on this, The teams & the fans should take it out on them. thay bought some bad tires to the USA F-1 race why should Bridgestone take that crap ??
TOMMY B
RALLY ON ////////////////////////////[/QUOTE]
Read the above posts...for the last time..Michelin agreed to give Bridgestone the points and still run the race...
Michelin is to blame on this, The teams & the fans should take it out on them. thay bought some bad tires to the USA F-1 race why should Bridgestone take that crap ??
TOMMY B
RALLY ON ////////////////////////////[/QUOTE]
Read the above posts...for the last time..Michelin agreed to give Bridgestone the points and still run the race...
| Arioch | 06-19-2005 03:03 PM |
This is ****ing retarded! **** Max, **** Michelin, **** the ****ing ****ers!
Now Bernie has allegedly left the event. What a douche!
I hope this is the end of F1 in Indy, but not in the US.
I also hope that Tony George makes Max pay for all the refunds of the tickets.
I hate F1 today. *fume*
Now Bernie has allegedly left the event. What a douche!
I hope this is the end of F1 in Indy, but not in the US.
I also hope that Tony George makes Max pay for all the refunds of the tickets.
I hate F1 today. *fume*
| Longfury | 06-19-2005 03:04 PM |
Its all Michelins fault that they could not provide a tire that would work. The FIA followed its own rules. So its not a problem with the FIA. Thats all I have to say.
| Longfury | 06-19-2005 03:05 PM |
Its all Michelins fault that they could not provide a tire that would work. The FIA followed its own rules. So its not a problem with the FIA. Thats all I have to say.
| TOMMY B | 06-19-2005 03:05 PM |
I read it, and your right....
But its still Michelin blame 100 %
There is no room for cutting deals in million doller racing
TOMMY B
RALLY ON /////////////////
But its still Michelin blame 100 %
There is no room for cutting deals in million doller racing
TOMMY B
RALLY ON /////////////////
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 03:05 PM |
I'm just almost in tears about this. I love F1, but you know what is going to happen? The same **** that happens whenever something big happens in a sport people don't understand, everyone is going to be pissing and moaning on how F1 is ****. It will take a long long time for people to find F1 interesting again because this is going to be a joke for a long ass time. IT is the same thing that happened in hockey with the Bertuizzi attack. All these ******** who don't understand hockey at all just run their mouth off and destroy the reputation of the sport.
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 03:09 PM |
[QUOTE=TOMMY B]I read it, and your right....
But its still Michelin blame 100 %
There is no room for cutting deals in million doller racing
TOMMY B
RALLY ON /////////////////[/QUOTE]
First off you're ;)
There obviously has to be cutting deals in million doll[b]a[/b]r racing. Otherwise we get **** like this. People would not be pissed if they gave the Bridgestone teams the points and put in a chicane and made it a non-championship round. People would be annoyed, but their reputation would not be destroyed like it is.
But its still Michelin blame 100 %
There is no room for cutting deals in million doller racing
TOMMY B
RALLY ON /////////////////[/QUOTE]
First off you're ;)
There obviously has to be cutting deals in million doll[b]a[/b]r racing. Otherwise we get **** like this. People would not be pissed if they gave the Bridgestone teams the points and put in a chicane and made it a non-championship round. People would be annoyed, but their reputation would not be destroyed like it is.
| Visceral | 06-19-2005 03:10 PM |
[QUOTE=Longfury]Its all Michelins fault that they could not provide a tire that would work. The FIA followed its own rules. So its not a problem with the FIA. Thats all I have to say.[/QUOTE]
It's a problem that the FIA made the one tire rule in the first place. Any tire manufacturer can have problems. Bridgestone had some earlier in the season that resulted in a Ferrari withdrawal.
It's a problem that the FIA made the one tire rule in the first place. Any tire manufacturer can have problems. Bridgestone had some earlier in the season that resulted in a Ferrari withdrawal.
| Choose | 06-19-2005 03:11 PM |
Can't get on [url]http://www.formula1.com/[/url] ...is it just me?
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 03:12 PM |
I can't get the homepage to work either, but the live timing is working for me right now.
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 03:13 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]First off you're ;)
There obviously has to be cutting deals in million doll[b]a[/b]r racing. Otherwise we get **** like this. People would not be pissed if they gave the Bridgestone teams the points and put in a chicane and made it a non-championship round. People would be annoyed, but their reputation would not be destroyed like it is.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, its not the FIA's fault, but they could have gone into damage control mode by giving Bridgestone the points and hold an event to keep F1 alive in the US. There was no reason not to run some kind of event today, points or no points...So in the end, the FIA shot itself in the foot. They had options to salvage the day and still make it fair for all the teams...
There obviously has to be cutting deals in million doll[b]a[/b]r racing. Otherwise we get **** like this. People would not be pissed if they gave the Bridgestone teams the points and put in a chicane and made it a non-championship round. People would be annoyed, but their reputation would not be destroyed like it is.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, its not the FIA's fault, but they could have gone into damage control mode by giving Bridgestone the points and hold an event to keep F1 alive in the US. There was no reason not to run some kind of event today, points or no points...So in the end, the FIA shot itself in the foot. They had options to salvage the day and still make it fair for all the teams...
| TheVampire | 06-19-2005 03:16 PM |
I smell a class action lawsuit from all the people that bought tickets for this "race"
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 03:23 PM |
Oh yeah, cause peole will love to drop thousands on a lawyer instead of eating the few hundred bucks they shelled out...plus there still actually was a race...
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 03:26 PM |
Michael's move on Rubens out of the pits was bull...
| Don Arm | 06-19-2005 03:29 PM |
THIS IS BULL%^&$
Number 1 The track could have changed since a new surface was applied.
Bridgestone would have had advanced information since Firestone ran the 500. Michelin would not have had this information.
Number 2 The FIA and Max Mosley SUX they could have allowed Michelin to bring tires from France (which they were going to do) and wavied the tire rule for this race, for the fans. BECAUSE racing is supported by the fans and their money.
Number 3 Bernie Ecclstone SUXXX BIG horse %^&* and is an A##Hol&. I'm sure this has something to do with the upcoming Concorde situation. I thought it was really interesting to see Bernie and the Ferrari team talking right brfore the race started.
This has just killed F1 at Indy. I left the race as did a lot of other people.
I feel really sorry for all of the people that came from out of town. One guy I just finished talking to drove all night from Canada to get here for the race.
At this point F1 is going the way of CART and the IRL.
There will be NO refunds the race was run, not cancelled !!!!!!!
Number 1 The track could have changed since a new surface was applied.
Bridgestone would have had advanced information since Firestone ran the 500. Michelin would not have had this information.
Number 2 The FIA and Max Mosley SUX they could have allowed Michelin to bring tires from France (which they were going to do) and wavied the tire rule for this race, for the fans. BECAUSE racing is supported by the fans and their money.
Number 3 Bernie Ecclstone SUXXX BIG horse %^&* and is an A##Hol&. I'm sure this has something to do with the upcoming Concorde situation. I thought it was really interesting to see Bernie and the Ferrari team talking right brfore the race started.
This has just killed F1 at Indy. I left the race as did a lot of other people.
I feel really sorry for all of the people that came from out of town. One guy I just finished talking to drove all night from Canada to get here for the race.
At this point F1 is going the way of CART and the IRL.
There will be NO refunds the race was run, not cancelled !!!!!!!
| MD04WRX | 06-19-2005 03:32 PM |
[QUOTE=Longfury]Its all Michelins fault that they could not provide a tire that would work. The FIA followed its own rules. So its not a problem with the FIA. Thats all I have to say.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but it would have been nice if they could have put in a chicane and ran the race (w/o awarding points) for the US F1 fans.
I agree, but it would have been nice if they could have put in a chicane and ran the race (w/o awarding points) for the US F1 fans.
| Hotrodguru | 06-19-2005 03:33 PM |
USGP - How many Michelin commercials have you counted?
�
�
10, 20..about a Bizzillion? How ironic, seems like Michelin bought almost every commercial time spot.
Guru :lol:
Guru :lol:
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 03:37 PM |
Wow, stop talking, seriously.
Michelin brought the tires from France. They had the same problems the other tires did. Bernie Ecclestone had nothing to do with the race being run like it did, it is all the FIA and Max Mosley.
Michelin brought the tires from France. They had the same problems the other tires did. Bernie Ecclestone had nothing to do with the race being run like it did, it is all the FIA and Max Mosley.
| Don Arm | 06-19-2005 03:40 PM |
Oh really you must have some inside line, hummm :rolleyes:
You ahh it's not worth my time. :disco:
You ahh it's not worth my time. :disco:
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 03:41 PM |
I feel really bad for Monterio. Not only did he get his first poduim, but Daly is giving him **** for being happy about it.
| psg | 06-19-2005 03:41 PM |
Is this the part where Ashton Kutcher jumps out and shouts at Monteiro, "YOU GOT PUNKED!"?
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 03:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Don Arm]Oh really you must have some inside line, hummm :rolleyes:
You ahh it's not worth my time. :disco:[/QUOTE]
No, read the thread jackass, its been discussed.
You ahh it's not worth my time. :disco:[/QUOTE]
No, read the thread jackass, its been discussed.
| OnTheGas | 06-19-2005 03:42 PM |
Fake Non-Race Option
�
�
[QUOTE=StuBeck]...People would not be pissed if they gave the Bridgestone teams the points and put in a chicane and made it a non-championship round. People would be annoyed...[/QUOTE] :lol: So people would have been "annoyed", but not "pissed" if FIA jerry-rigged a last minute chicane (Hey! We found a use for all these damned 'Barcelona spec' tires... make a chicane in the short chute!) :lol: and then watched all Michelin teams dog-fight it out on the track all day, even though every single person watching that catastrophe would know that only the Bridgestone teams will take any points for a big, expensive waste of time.
Maybe you would have been only "annoyed", but I, and some others, would still be about as pissed off as I am right now!
Maybe you would have been only "annoyed", but I, and some others, would still be about as pissed off as I am right now!
| OnTheGas | 06-19-2005 03:46 PM |
Michelin Knew This Track
�
�
[QUOTE=Don Arm]THIS IS BULL%^&$
Number 1 The track could have changed since a new surface was applied.
Bridgestone would have had advanced information since Firestone ran the 500. Michelin would not have had this information...[/QUOTE]Michelin would have, and should have obtained some intelligence about the surface of this track... It's not like it was a secret that the track had been resurfaced and the new surface was abrasive...
The blame for this fiasco resides 100% w/Michelin!
Number 1 The track could have changed since a new surface was applied.
Bridgestone would have had advanced information since Firestone ran the 500. Michelin would not have had this information...[/QUOTE]Michelin would have, and should have obtained some intelligence about the surface of this track... It's not like it was a secret that the track had been resurfaced and the new surface was abrasive...
The blame for this fiasco resides 100% w/Michelin!
| StuBeck | 06-19-2005 03:49 PM |
No, but people would have at least seen a race. They did not see that, people are pissed right now. I am too. But if you see 20 cars running around the track for a non-points race it would have been a lot more interesting then what happened out there. With my "annoyed" comment I was trying to say there would be a difference between the anger people have now against F1 in general and the anger for having a non-points race.
| rs6 | 06-19-2005 03:49 PM |
[QUOTE=Hotrodguru]10, 20..about a Bizzillion? How ironic, seems like Michelin bought almost every commercial time spot.
Guru :lol:[/QUOTE]
I was white-knucked watching that piece of sh-t!
Guru :lol:[/QUOTE]
I was white-knucked watching that piece of sh-t!
| OnTheGas | 06-19-2005 03:57 PM |
How Would A Non-points Race Be Run?
�
�
Stu & REX8 - I don't understand how FIA would have "given" points to the Bridgestone teams. Was it that a normal race would be run, but the Michelin teams would not receive any points, no matter where they finished?
If that was the case, then you would have the possibility that a competitor of Ferrari would crash into a Ferrari, and people would say that it was in the interest of the Michelin runner to see the Ferrari tossed off course... which is true!
If that was the case, then you would have the possibility that a competitor of Ferrari would crash into a Ferrari, and people would say that it was in the interest of the Michelin runner to see the Ferrari tossed off course... which is true!
| MD04WRX | 06-19-2005 04:00 PM |
The race was one big negitive commercial for Michelin.
| FiKtIOn | 06-19-2005 04:01 PM |
i ****ing pooped on the michelin tire guy.
I HATE MICHELIN.
I HATE MICHELIN.
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 04:07 PM |
[QUOTE=OnTheGas]Stu & REX8 - I don't understand how FIA would have "given" points to the Bridgestone teams. Was it that a normal race would be run, but the Michelin teams would not receive any points, no matter where they finished?
If that was the case, then you would have the possibility that a competitor of Ferrari would crash into a Ferrari, and people would say that it was in the interest of the Michelin runner to see the Ferrari tossed off course... which is true![/QUOTE]
FIA would award points to the Bridgestone runners in the order they finished, for the first 6 positions, the rest of the field would be either: Fighting for the leftover spots or 2. No additional points would be awarded to any Michelin team. The race would just be "for show". Why is that hard to understand.
And yeah, someone could try and take out a Michelin competitor, but there would be no points to be had for them anyway, plus, that kind of crap can happen at ANY RACE. It wouldn't help any team if Ferrari was knocked out of the race early, because the other cars wouldn't be gaining any points...
If that was the case, then you would have the possibility that a competitor of Ferrari would crash into a Ferrari, and people would say that it was in the interest of the Michelin runner to see the Ferrari tossed off course... which is true![/QUOTE]
FIA would award points to the Bridgestone runners in the order they finished, for the first 6 positions, the rest of the field would be either: Fighting for the leftover spots or 2. No additional points would be awarded to any Michelin team. The race would just be "for show". Why is that hard to understand.
And yeah, someone could try and take out a Michelin competitor, but there would be no points to be had for them anyway, plus, that kind of crap can happen at ANY RACE. It wouldn't help any team if Ferrari was knocked out of the race early, because the other cars wouldn't be gaining any points...
| OnTheGas | 06-19-2005 04:15 PM |
Why Let A Ferrari Finish?
�
�
[QUOTE=REX8]...And yeah, someone could try and take out a Michelin competitor...[/QUOTE]Right! So if I'm racing in a Michelin shod car, I know that if I should do battle on track with a Ferrari, that if the Ferrari finishes, he gets a bunch of points. But, if I run my nose up his butt, and punt him off, he will get no points...
Oops! My foot slipped off the brake pedal! So sorry Michael!
Now Michael gets no points, the same as me!
That is why FIA would not allow that format.
Oops! My foot slipped off the brake pedal! So sorry Michael!
Now Michael gets no points, the same as me!
That is why FIA would not allow that format.
| GotHP? | 06-19-2005 04:18 PM |
Hey F1 - BITE ME!!!
�
�
if you saw the 'farce', 'nuff said....just had to vent :mad:
| Choose | 06-19-2005 04:26 PM |
My 2 cent solution. After all yesterday is just the qualifying session for todays race, why not just let the Michelin teams change their tires and put them last in the qualifying run down. And also let Ferrari, Minardi and Jordan get new tires.
And let them race for points!
And let them race for points!
| driggity | 06-19-2005 04:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Choose]My 2 cent solution. After all yesterday is just the qualifying session for todays race, why not just let the Michelin teams change their tires and put them last in the qualifying run down. And also let Ferrari, Minardi and Jordan get new tires.
And let them race for points![/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing for a while but it has been rumored (and I don't know if this was disproved or not) that the Michelin teams didn't want to run on the new tires that were flown in because they didn't know that they would be any safer. This makes sense to me as last I heard Michelin didn't know what caused the failures on Zonta's and Ralf's cars. And if you don't know why you have a problem I don't know that you can really say you have a solution. Especially with no testing.
The whole situation sucks though and I feel really bad for all the fans in attendance (except for the knuckleheads who thought it would be a good idea to throw stuff on the track).
And let them race for points![/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing for a while but it has been rumored (and I don't know if this was disproved or not) that the Michelin teams didn't want to run on the new tires that were flown in because they didn't know that they would be any safer. This makes sense to me as last I heard Michelin didn't know what caused the failures on Zonta's and Ralf's cars. And if you don't know why you have a problem I don't know that you can really say you have a solution. Especially with no testing.
The whole situation sucks though and I feel really bad for all the fans in attendance (except for the knuckleheads who thought it would be a good idea to throw stuff on the track).
| zoomfactor | 06-19-2005 04:36 PM |
Put the blame where you will...I think Michelin showed some balls to recommend that teams running their tire should not compete. They've been in motorsports for long enough to realize that it certianly did not enhance thier PR immage.
I believe that the race administrators F1/FIA etc. could have done a better job by being flexible in coming up with a solution. This was disrespectful of the fans and those who support motorsports. The FIA seems less interested in selling an exciting entertainment product, than emphasizing their power.
I understand that cost-control seems to be the basis for many of the rule changes, but cost control becomes slightly less of a consideration when sponsers are fighting to participate (see NASCAR ;) ).
I believe that the race administrators F1/FIA etc. could have done a better job by being flexible in coming up with a solution. This was disrespectful of the fans and those who support motorsports. The FIA seems less interested in selling an exciting entertainment product, than emphasizing their power.
I understand that cost-control seems to be the basis for many of the rule changes, but cost control becomes slightly less of a consideration when sponsers are fighting to participate (see NASCAR ;) ).
| Choose | 06-19-2005 04:38 PM |
Good point! At the end of the day screw ups happen and they will happen again. Just too bad they could not agree to a solution. Rules and rules but changes could have been made to make it fair for everybody.
Zoomfactor, I agree Michelin do have balls and they took the right decision. But nobody will ever give them the credit for it. It's just a sport and Safety comes first...just imagine if they would have run anyway and someone would have been in a serious accident.
Zoomfactor, I agree Michelin do have balls and they took the right decision. But nobody will ever give them the credit for it. It's just a sport and Safety comes first...just imagine if they would have run anyway and someone would have been in a serious accident.
| WRSport | 06-19-2005 04:41 PM |
Between the proposed spec series for 08 and todays disaster, bring on the split off series.
Such a sad day for f1. I never thought I would see such a cluster**** as today.
I'm so glad I canceled my trip for this years indy. If I was there I would be livid.
Such a sad day for f1. I never thought I would see such a cluster**** as today.
I'm so glad I canceled my trip for this years indy. If I was there I would be livid.
| prelude/2.5rs | 06-19-2005 04:44 PM |
I agree
| Davenow | 06-19-2005 04:49 PM |
details???
| gleinz | 06-19-2005 04:56 PM |
Michelin said its tires couldn't be used on the banked turn (turn 13) unless speeds were reduced. So all the Michelin teams pulled out of the race. Only 6 cars actually raced.
[url]http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=90188[/url]
[url]http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=90188[/url]
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 05:00 PM |
[QUOTE=OnTheGas]Right! So if I'm racing in a Michelin shod car, I know that if I should do battle on track with a Ferrari, that if the Ferrari finishes, he gets a bunch of points. But, if I run my nose up his butt, and punt him off, he will get no points...
Oops! My foot slipped off the brake pedal! So sorry Michael!
Now Michael gets no points, the same as me!
That is why FIA would not allow that format.[/QUOTE]
Wow, you're really missing the issue. F1 drivers are out there for themselves, always wanting to put up a good showing and prove there speed. Whats to stop Montoya, who's out of the drivers championship, from taking out anyone else to help out Kimi? Nothing. You can't be serious...by your theory, any driver, out of the points in ANY given race, would be gunning for the front runners. Do you see that happening? When Michael or Montoya are out of the points in like 12th during a race, do you see them out "punting" other cars off who are in the points? Of course you don't. Your senario with a driver out of the points happens every race weekend, and no one behaves how you describe...its not Nascar. Your concern would hold true during ANY race and obviously has no bearing on the decision not to run in the USGP. Did you see GCF taking out fellow drivers when his hydraulics started to fail? When a driver has lost a gear, and is completing the race at a snails pace, do you see him taking out other drivers? Your theory is just plain wrong...
Let alone that is the FIA awarded points prior to the race, it would have been on qualifying position, thereofer even if a Bridgestone car didn't finish, they still may have gotten points for the race...
Oops! My foot slipped off the brake pedal! So sorry Michael!
Now Michael gets no points, the same as me!
That is why FIA would not allow that format.[/QUOTE]
Wow, you're really missing the issue. F1 drivers are out there for themselves, always wanting to put up a good showing and prove there speed. Whats to stop Montoya, who's out of the drivers championship, from taking out anyone else to help out Kimi? Nothing. You can't be serious...by your theory, any driver, out of the points in ANY given race, would be gunning for the front runners. Do you see that happening? When Michael or Montoya are out of the points in like 12th during a race, do you see them out "punting" other cars off who are in the points? Of course you don't. Your senario with a driver out of the points happens every race weekend, and no one behaves how you describe...its not Nascar. Your concern would hold true during ANY race and obviously has no bearing on the decision not to run in the USGP. Did you see GCF taking out fellow drivers when his hydraulics started to fail? When a driver has lost a gear, and is completing the race at a snails pace, do you see him taking out other drivers? Your theory is just plain wrong...
Let alone that is the FIA awarded points prior to the race, it would have been on qualifying position, thereofer even if a Bridgestone car didn't finish, they still may have gotten points for the race...
| esteve | 06-19-2005 05:04 PM |
[QUOTE=driggity]The whole situation sucks though and I feel really bad for all the fans in attendance (except for the knuckleheads who thought it would be a good idea to throw stuff on the track).[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the fans got screwed big-time. Since the race was run, no refunds or anything, that's BS. They should somehow be compensated but since the FIA wasn't really at fault, it would be like getting blood from a rock.
I agree with onthegas, it was 100% Michelin's fault. I don't give them any credit for stating their tires were unsafe because that is to be expected, it's their responsibility.
Yeah, the fans got screwed big-time. Since the race was run, no refunds or anything, that's BS. They should somehow be compensated but since the FIA wasn't really at fault, it would be like getting blood from a rock.
I agree with onthegas, it was 100% Michelin's fault. I don't give them any credit for stating their tires were unsafe because that is to be expected, it's their responsibility.
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