| fastwrx | 02-23-2004 07:36 PM |
USAA Insurance - Don't ask, don't tell
�
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Hi all,
Well.. I made the mistake of asking USAA about coverage during HPDE events. "No good deed goes unpunished." "It's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission." And the conventional wisdom to avoid being forthright with insurance companies is definitely true.
Bottom line... I got cancelled!! They are not renewing my policy. This is what I get for being honest and having integrity. Furthermore, this is how they treat a 20-year member who has never had a speeding ticket or a collision. I've never filed a claim.
I went round and round with them on the phone today. I already made arrangments for other insurance. I have supplemental HPDE insurance from American Collectors.
Here is the letter I'm sending to USAA:
[i]USAA
Auto Policy Division
9800 Fredericksburg Road
San Antonio, TX 78288-0001
To Whom It May Concern:
Your company recently cancelled my auto insurance policy for the stated reason, �We will not insure cars that are used on a race track.�
Several months ago, I inquired about coverage for use in �Drivers Education� or �Car Control Clinic� events. I explained that these events are NOT racing events. There are no prizes, timed laps, nor is there �wheel to wheel� racing. These events are organized by car clubs to improve driver skills under very controlled conditions and strict rules. They are held on tracks and large parking lots. Drivers are accompanied by driving instructors. Your representative went to your underwriting committee to inquire.
Your representative called me back and offered the following finding: �We recommend you do not do that.� I hear similar advice from my mother on a number of issues. I expected a bit more from an insurance company. I replied that I thought that was a non-answer and rather than scolding me like a child, I�d prefer to just know what USAA�s policy is. She countered that in the event of damage during one of the events, I would not be covered. I accepted that, and told her there is a company that offers supplemental insurance for just such situations. I inquired with this particular company and was surprised when they asked me if I was a USAA member. It turns out they �partner� with you! I got my supplemental policy and went on my merry way. This was around October of last year.
Then, a week ago, I received your letter notifying me of non-renewal. I was shocked. I cannot see the logic of how your absence of risk, via the track damage exclusion as was explained to me, affects your risk when I�m driving legally on public roads. As an aside� A few months ago, the car control skills I learned saved me (and you) from a probably total loss of my car. An elderly gentleman turned left in front of me on a two-lane road. He didn�t turn until just before I got to the intersection. It was if I was invisible. It was the closest I�ve come to a major car collision in my life. My learned skills got me out of that situation without a scratch. I think I lost some more hair, though! J
I am contacting you, not to beg for reinstatement. I wouldn�t consider it if even offered or if I never participated in another Drivers Ed event. I�ve already arranged for another policy. I called, and am now writing, because I have had such a great previous experience with USAA. I have nothing to gain by writing you at this point, but after being a member for 20 years, I feel a bit obligated to share my feelings. My father has been a member for 40 years! USAA is the only company I�ve known and would have never previously considered another company regardless of price.
Your reputation has always been far and above all other companies. Knowing that was worth a higher premium. I wanted you to know that you are losing a customer with a 20-year history with USAA. I would have been a customer for decades more. I�m 40 years old, and I�ve never had a single traffic ticket. I�ve never had a collision. And, more importantly, I�ve never filed a single claim with USAA. I�ve certainly demonstrated that I am a �good risk� for USAA.
While I could successfully argue the merits of club-sponsored car control clinics, it becomes a moot point upon examining the termination of our relationship a little further. The issue no longer is whether such activity is actually �racing� or whether I would have insurance coverage for those activities. Your representative told me that damages incurred at one of these courses would not be covered. This I accepted and even understand without further question. However, most importantly, your representative did NOT inform me that such participation would put me in a position such that I would LOSE my policy altogether. Had such information been given, I may have altered my decision to participate. Certainly, there is more to consider if I�d lose my policy altogether vs. not having coverage on the track.
All the above was discussed today with Ms. XXXXX. She listened but failed to see my points. She confirmed USAA�s position that any activity on a track or off a public road was RACING. She did apologize for USAA not informing me that I would lose my policy. I explained that my integrity and honesty is what led me to ask USAA about my policy in the first place. No doubt, my honesty was rewarded, or perhaps better said, punished. I would have been better off not inquiring at all and silently obtaining supplemental coverage. I have also learned that USAA Auto is no different than the other companies. Ultimately, I got annoyed at our circular arguments and I had to hang up with Ms. Clark. I had patients waiting for me, and I had no desire to pursue coverage through USAA. The offer to obtain coverage through USAA�s �General Agency� in your non-renewal letter was laughable. Surely, you don�t expect me to reward such poor service with more business with one of your subsidiaries?
While I have already obtained coverage from another company to take effect upon termination of my USAA policy, I am very disappointed about this situation. I really believe USAA should have informed me properly of the consequences BEFOREHAND.
[/i]
What a crock, eh? So all you USAA members... don't breathe a word about HPDE, auto-x, or any other drivers ed courses. I suppose they would rather you street race and get your jollies drifting around corners on public roads.
I would have been better off if I had kept my mouth shut. They would be none the wiser.
Don't ask. Don't tell!
fastwrx
Well.. I made the mistake of asking USAA about coverage during HPDE events. "No good deed goes unpunished." "It's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission." And the conventional wisdom to avoid being forthright with insurance companies is definitely true.
Bottom line... I got cancelled!! They are not renewing my policy. This is what I get for being honest and having integrity. Furthermore, this is how they treat a 20-year member who has never had a speeding ticket or a collision. I've never filed a claim.
I went round and round with them on the phone today. I already made arrangments for other insurance. I have supplemental HPDE insurance from American Collectors.
Here is the letter I'm sending to USAA:
[i]USAA
Auto Policy Division
9800 Fredericksburg Road
San Antonio, TX 78288-0001
To Whom It May Concern:
Your company recently cancelled my auto insurance policy for the stated reason, �We will not insure cars that are used on a race track.�
Several months ago, I inquired about coverage for use in �Drivers Education� or �Car Control Clinic� events. I explained that these events are NOT racing events. There are no prizes, timed laps, nor is there �wheel to wheel� racing. These events are organized by car clubs to improve driver skills under very controlled conditions and strict rules. They are held on tracks and large parking lots. Drivers are accompanied by driving instructors. Your representative went to your underwriting committee to inquire.
Your representative called me back and offered the following finding: �We recommend you do not do that.� I hear similar advice from my mother on a number of issues. I expected a bit more from an insurance company. I replied that I thought that was a non-answer and rather than scolding me like a child, I�d prefer to just know what USAA�s policy is. She countered that in the event of damage during one of the events, I would not be covered. I accepted that, and told her there is a company that offers supplemental insurance for just such situations. I inquired with this particular company and was surprised when they asked me if I was a USAA member. It turns out they �partner� with you! I got my supplemental policy and went on my merry way. This was around October of last year.
Then, a week ago, I received your letter notifying me of non-renewal. I was shocked. I cannot see the logic of how your absence of risk, via the track damage exclusion as was explained to me, affects your risk when I�m driving legally on public roads. As an aside� A few months ago, the car control skills I learned saved me (and you) from a probably total loss of my car. An elderly gentleman turned left in front of me on a two-lane road. He didn�t turn until just before I got to the intersection. It was if I was invisible. It was the closest I�ve come to a major car collision in my life. My learned skills got me out of that situation without a scratch. I think I lost some more hair, though! J
I am contacting you, not to beg for reinstatement. I wouldn�t consider it if even offered or if I never participated in another Drivers Ed event. I�ve already arranged for another policy. I called, and am now writing, because I have had such a great previous experience with USAA. I have nothing to gain by writing you at this point, but after being a member for 20 years, I feel a bit obligated to share my feelings. My father has been a member for 40 years! USAA is the only company I�ve known and would have never previously considered another company regardless of price.
Your reputation has always been far and above all other companies. Knowing that was worth a higher premium. I wanted you to know that you are losing a customer with a 20-year history with USAA. I would have been a customer for decades more. I�m 40 years old, and I�ve never had a single traffic ticket. I�ve never had a collision. And, more importantly, I�ve never filed a single claim with USAA. I�ve certainly demonstrated that I am a �good risk� for USAA.
While I could successfully argue the merits of club-sponsored car control clinics, it becomes a moot point upon examining the termination of our relationship a little further. The issue no longer is whether such activity is actually �racing� or whether I would have insurance coverage for those activities. Your representative told me that damages incurred at one of these courses would not be covered. This I accepted and even understand without further question. However, most importantly, your representative did NOT inform me that such participation would put me in a position such that I would LOSE my policy altogether. Had such information been given, I may have altered my decision to participate. Certainly, there is more to consider if I�d lose my policy altogether vs. not having coverage on the track.
All the above was discussed today with Ms. XXXXX. She listened but failed to see my points. She confirmed USAA�s position that any activity on a track or off a public road was RACING. She did apologize for USAA not informing me that I would lose my policy. I explained that my integrity and honesty is what led me to ask USAA about my policy in the first place. No doubt, my honesty was rewarded, or perhaps better said, punished. I would have been better off not inquiring at all and silently obtaining supplemental coverage. I have also learned that USAA Auto is no different than the other companies. Ultimately, I got annoyed at our circular arguments and I had to hang up with Ms. Clark. I had patients waiting for me, and I had no desire to pursue coverage through USAA. The offer to obtain coverage through USAA�s �General Agency� in your non-renewal letter was laughable. Surely, you don�t expect me to reward such poor service with more business with one of your subsidiaries?
While I have already obtained coverage from another company to take effect upon termination of my USAA policy, I am very disappointed about this situation. I really believe USAA should have informed me properly of the consequences BEFOREHAND.
[/i]
What a crock, eh? So all you USAA members... don't breathe a word about HPDE, auto-x, or any other drivers ed courses. I suppose they would rather you street race and get your jollies drifting around corners on public roads.
I would have been better off if I had kept my mouth shut. They would be none the wiser.
Don't ask. Don't tell!
fastwrx
| tee_rexx | 02-23-2004 07:57 PM |
I think there is a disclaimer in all auto insurance policies about racing....not a good idea to bring that up, as you found out. Anyway, I started a thread in Gen. Comm. regarding insurance companies.....check it out. It's called "New AAA insurance rating". There is a guy in there called Buckeye that is quite knowledgeable in this area. See what he has to say about it.
| fastwrx | 02-23-2004 08:35 PM |
At this point it doesn't really matter. I have a new policy, and mum's the word! I have a supplemental policy for DE events. I've learned my lesson about being forthright with insurance companies. I was stupid for looking into it.
I just wanted to warn others here. I know there are a bunch of USAA members. I'm sure the same advice would apply to any other ins. co.
It's sad USAA saw no value in a 20-year member who would likely be a member for 40+ more years.
Mike
I just wanted to warn others here. I know there are a bunch of USAA members. I'm sure the same advice would apply to any other ins. co.
It's sad USAA saw no value in a 20-year member who would likely be a member for 40+ more years.
Mike
| LJG33 | 02-23-2004 09:21 PM |
This may or may not be true, but I was once told drivers with perfect records for such a long time are often in danger of being dropped by their insurance companies. The reasoning for this was because the law of averages says that they are very due for an accident and the insurance compaies don't want to deal with that, so they will notify the driver that they are going to drop you, but you should be alright as long as you get another policy before the company officially drops you, because once you get dropped then you are in a bad situation. I was told this by my drivers ed teacher and it is really the only thing i remember coming out of his mouth. I did find this to be a complete load of deuce, but now I guess he might have actually been telling the truth about this situation. Who knows, but it is sad they would just drop such a loyal customer for either the reason I gave or for you inquiring about the extra coverage.
| A_Train | 02-23-2004 09:50 PM |
I can't believe my insurance company would do something like this. USAA has always treated me and my family well, but appartently they have no loyalty to good customers
| kevinsUBARU | 02-23-2004 10:20 PM |
USAA has always been good to me and my family....wow:o
| jcholak718 | 02-23-2004 10:26 PM |
Wow this is really disappointing. I just purchased my first auto policy on my own from USAA. My father has been a member for a minimum of 30 years and I've been a member for about 10. While I never had any problems with them during my teenage years, nor with the purchase of my new STi, your unfortunate situation will force me to cast a wary eye on them. It's a shame things had to turn out like this for you.
| Aaron'z 2.5RS | 02-23-2004 11:00 PM |
USAA fukked me over, i wackked a deer, had my car "fixxed" 3 times and the fukkin shop never got things right....... after the 3rd time they sed "THEY" were satisified with the repair.....complete bull****e.......
seeing how noone else will cover me with my tickets, i gotta deal with it i guess, who knows maybe they will drop me and then i'll really be fukked.......them bastiches.... if only i lived in Tx.....i'dd be burrinin down the house.....
seeing how noone else will cover me with my tickets, i gotta deal with it i guess, who knows maybe they will drop me and then i'll really be fukked.......them bastiches.... if only i lived in Tx.....i'dd be burrinin down the house.....
| Buckeye Kid | 02-24-2004 12:05 AM |
There is no coverage for any type of racing event written into your auto insurance policy automatically, so regardless of if you tell your insurance company or not about the events, if you have a claim arise from the event it will not be covered and you will be cancelled. ALWAYS buy supplemental insurance for this. I can't imagine how many people must be autocrossing without coverage and not realize this. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but the insurance company MUST protect itself from this type of heightened risk. A standard insurance policy is written for the normal communting/pleasure driver, not an amateur race car driver. If the policy extended coverage to racing-type events, everyone's rate would increase to cover the added cost of paying claims arising from these situations.
I wanted to verify this information, and I pulled out an insurance policy contract from Progressive auto insurance company. On page 8 of the policy contract this is stated:
Quote
'Coverage under this Part 1, including our duty to defend, does not apply to:
... bodily injury or property damage resulting from any pre-arranged or organized racing, speed or demolition contest, stunting activity, or in practice or preparation for any such contest or acitivty...'
Endquote
This may not be your insurance company, but I am 100% sure every insurance company out there has a provision for this in their contract. Sorry.
I wanted to verify this information, and I pulled out an insurance policy contract from Progressive auto insurance company. On page 8 of the policy contract this is stated:
Quote
'Coverage under this Part 1, including our duty to defend, does not apply to:
... bodily injury or property damage resulting from any pre-arranged or organized racing, speed or demolition contest, stunting activity, or in practice or preparation for any such contest or acitivty...'
Endquote
This may not be your insurance company, but I am 100% sure every insurance company out there has a provision for this in their contract. Sorry.
| tee_rexx | 02-24-2004 12:34 AM |
Elvis has entered the building......
| fastwrx | 02-24-2004 12:40 AM |
Buckeye,
I understand that. But, this has gone beyond that. They are dropping me entirely MERELY for asking. If they want to exclude any kind of DE event by calling it "racing," that's fine. I not only understand that but expected it. I got supplemental insurance. But, to drop my policy completely is incomprehensible. How does my DE participation increase my risk as a legal driver on public roads? It simply doesn't. Furthermore, my history is PERFECT. No tickets, no collisions, no claims for the 24 years I've been driving since I got my first license. All 24 of those years insured with USAA.
Do NOT tell your insurance company EVEN if you have supplemental insurance. Don't tell. Don't ask.
Mike
I understand that. But, this has gone beyond that. They are dropping me entirely MERELY for asking. If they want to exclude any kind of DE event by calling it "racing," that's fine. I not only understand that but expected it. I got supplemental insurance. But, to drop my policy completely is incomprehensible. How does my DE participation increase my risk as a legal driver on public roads? It simply doesn't. Furthermore, my history is PERFECT. No tickets, no collisions, no claims for the 24 years I've been driving since I got my first license. All 24 of those years insured with USAA.
Do NOT tell your insurance company EVEN if you have supplemental insurance. Don't tell. Don't ask.
Mike
| Shikamaru | 02-24-2004 07:06 AM |
ya that's some bullsheet
| Calamity Jesus | 02-24-2004 09:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Buckeye Kid[/i]
[B]I can't imagine how many people must be autocrossing without coverage and not realize this.[/B][/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: The whole reason I autocross is because of the low risk factor. There's no way I'd pay for supplemental insurance for 3 minutes spent dodging cones one weekend a month.
[B]I can't imagine how many people must be autocrossing without coverage and not realize this.[/B][/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: The whole reason I autocross is because of the low risk factor. There's no way I'd pay for supplemental insurance for 3 minutes spent dodging cones one weekend a month.
| reks | 02-24-2004 09:45 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by LJG33 [/i]
[B]This may or may not be true, but I was once told drivers with perfect records for such a long time are often in danger of being dropped by their insurance companies. The reasoning for this was because the law of averages says that they are very due for an accident and the insurance compaies don't want to deal with that, so they will notify the driver that they are going to drop you, but you should be alright as long as you get another policy before the company officially drops you, because once you get dropped then you are in a bad situation. I was told this by my drivers ed teacher and it is really the only thing i remember coming out of his mouth. I did find this to be a complete load of deuce, but now I guess he might have actually been telling the truth about this situation. Who knows, but it is sad they would just drop such a loyal customer for either the reason I gave or for you inquiring about the extra coverage. [/B][/QUOTE]
That makes absolutely no sense. If you flip a coin 10 times and get 10 heads in a row, your chance of getting a head on the 11th flip is still 50%.
Since part of your % chance to get into a car accident is the way you drive a long clean driving record would indicate that your chance is actually lower. So, statistically, you're less likely to get into a car accident on any given day.
Just because you haven't gotten into an accident doesn't mean you are 'due'. That's like saying your 11th flip has to be tails.
I suppose you never know, but I'd be surprised if any educated analyst held this position.
[B]This may or may not be true, but I was once told drivers with perfect records for such a long time are often in danger of being dropped by their insurance companies. The reasoning for this was because the law of averages says that they are very due for an accident and the insurance compaies don't want to deal with that, so they will notify the driver that they are going to drop you, but you should be alright as long as you get another policy before the company officially drops you, because once you get dropped then you are in a bad situation. I was told this by my drivers ed teacher and it is really the only thing i remember coming out of his mouth. I did find this to be a complete load of deuce, but now I guess he might have actually been telling the truth about this situation. Who knows, but it is sad they would just drop such a loyal customer for either the reason I gave or for you inquiring about the extra coverage. [/B][/QUOTE]
That makes absolutely no sense. If you flip a coin 10 times and get 10 heads in a row, your chance of getting a head on the 11th flip is still 50%.
Since part of your % chance to get into a car accident is the way you drive a long clean driving record would indicate that your chance is actually lower. So, statistically, you're less likely to get into a car accident on any given day.
Just because you haven't gotten into an accident doesn't mean you are 'due'. That's like saying your 11th flip has to be tails.
I suppose you never know, but I'd be surprised if any educated analyst held this position.
| DoctorBob | 02-24-2004 09:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by reks[/i]
[B]I suppose you never know, but I'd be surprised if any educated analyst held this position. [/B][/QUOTE]
They don't. Actuaries are really good at math.
Good suggestions on the supplemental coverage, though. I'd never thought of that (nor needed it yet) and now I do.
[B]I suppose you never know, but I'd be surprised if any educated analyst held this position. [/B][/QUOTE]
They don't. Actuaries are really good at math.
Good suggestions on the supplemental coverage, though. I'd never thought of that (nor needed it yet) and now I do.
| Buckeye Kid | 02-24-2004 10:16 AM |
Unfortunately, the insurance company is just trying to protect itself in today's litigious society. Many times an insurance company has been sued for coverage that was specifically excluded in its insurance company and been forced to pay the claim for various reasons. It is because of this insurance companies are quick to cancel any risk they deem 'higher than normal'.
While I can understand the insurance company's decision, I feel they made a big mistake canceling you. They should have looked at your policy and noticed you have been a very profitable client for many years. They should have required you to file a copy of your supplemental insurance policy each year with your agent to show there is indeed another insurance company who is covering these events. Simply canceling you was a decision made by an underwriter who wasn't thinking about the 'big picture'.
You should have a talk with your local insurance professional. They should understand your situation and possibly 'make a few phone calls' to see if they can have anything done, unless you are completely fed up with USAA as an insurance company. I feel that could have happened to you at any insurance company, and its unfair to blame USAA for the cancellation.
While I can understand the insurance company's decision, I feel they made a big mistake canceling you. They should have looked at your policy and noticed you have been a very profitable client for many years. They should have required you to file a copy of your supplemental insurance policy each year with your agent to show there is indeed another insurance company who is covering these events. Simply canceling you was a decision made by an underwriter who wasn't thinking about the 'big picture'.
You should have a talk with your local insurance professional. They should understand your situation and possibly 'make a few phone calls' to see if they can have anything done, unless you are completely fed up with USAA as an insurance company. I feel that could have happened to you at any insurance company, and its unfair to blame USAA for the cancellation.
| Buckeye Kid | 02-24-2004 10:24 AM |
[QUOTE]This may or may not be true, but I was once told drivers with perfect records for such a long time are often in danger of being dropped by their insurance companies.[/QUOTE]
This is completely untrue. Insurance companies even give big discounts to long time clients who have been profitable to try and keep them. People who have had no claims in the past are MUCH more likely to not have a claim in the future, which has been proven many times through statistical studies.
Smack your driver's ed teacher for me next time you see him for spreading a lie to such open-minded youths :)
This is completely untrue. Insurance companies even give big discounts to long time clients who have been profitable to try and keep them. People who have had no claims in the past are MUCH more likely to not have a claim in the future, which has been proven many times through statistical studies.
Smack your driver's ed teacher for me next time you see him for spreading a lie to such open-minded youths :)
| ExitVisa | 02-24-2004 10:38 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Buckeye Kid [/i]
[B]
I feel that could have happened to you at any insurance company, and its unfair to blame USAA for the cancellation. [/B][/QUOTE]
Why is that? USAA is the company that is cancelling his coverage.
What ever happened to being accountable for your actions? I feel that USAA provided terrible service and should suffer the consequences.
[B]
I feel that could have happened to you at any insurance company, and its unfair to blame USAA for the cancellation. [/B][/QUOTE]
Why is that? USAA is the company that is cancelling his coverage.
What ever happened to being accountable for your actions? I feel that USAA provided terrible service and should suffer the consequences.
| emulous | 02-24-2004 10:40 AM |
That's really interesting, I've had 7 cars insured by USAA in the past 12 years and I have noticed quite a few changes in how they run their insurance business and their customer service, needless to say it has all been down hill. I'm still a customer, but other companies look better and better all the time.
When I purchased and SVT Focus and called to insure it, the first question out of USAA was "Do you intend to do any racing with this vehicle?" My reply was "Not that I'm aware of", but when I called to put an EVO on my policy, all I heard was "Oh, a race car" I simply asked for some lube before they gave me the quote.
I wasn't aware that there was supplemental insurance for amateur racing. You mentioned an affiliation with the supplemental insurance company and USAA, I wonder if the "partner" terms are just to inform USAA of the supplemental insurance and that the supplemental policy you had with them is what in fact lead to your USAA policy being cancelled.
When I purchased and SVT Focus and called to insure it, the first question out of USAA was "Do you intend to do any racing with this vehicle?" My reply was "Not that I'm aware of", but when I called to put an EVO on my policy, all I heard was "Oh, a race car" I simply asked for some lube before they gave me the quote.
I wasn't aware that there was supplemental insurance for amateur racing. You mentioned an affiliation with the supplemental insurance company and USAA, I wonder if the "partner" terms are just to inform USAA of the supplemental insurance and that the supplemental policy you had with them is what in fact lead to your USAA policy being cancelled.
| nathansvt | 02-24-2004 11:36 AM |
Where did you get the supplemental DE insurance?
| myracle | 02-24-2004 11:48 AM |
Why let your conscience screw you? #1 reason why people get caught in a crime or get in trouble is because of their need to talk. What someone doesn't know... wil not hurt them. I am not saying be extremely shady... but c'mon, we all know how insurance companies are.
I know you just inquired but still.... why inquire? Inquiring mind want to know? Do you tell everything to your wife/girlfriend?I would hope not. but if so.. ask her.. "Hun, what would you think if I slept with another woman?" I am sure most wouldn't react too highly to that inquiry... although it still is only an inquiry, yah?
Point is... do research and keep things quiet.. especially if you aren't sure about the reprocussions.
* I still think that company cancelling you sucks.. but I am sure you had no problem finding another fast ..
I know you just inquired but still.... why inquire? Inquiring mind want to know? Do you tell everything to your wife/girlfriend?I would hope not. but if so.. ask her.. "Hun, what would you think if I slept with another woman?" I am sure most wouldn't react too highly to that inquiry... although it still is only an inquiry, yah?
Point is... do research and keep things quiet.. especially if you aren't sure about the reprocussions.
* I still think that company cancelling you sucks.. but I am sure you had no problem finding another fast ..
| C-daleRidr | 02-24-2004 12:01 PM |
I'm surprised. I would think that you could get this resolved with USAA. They've always been great with us. Best of luck getting this taken care of. There are certainly other insurance companies out there, but few offer the level of service for the money that USAA does.
Well, until they cancel you for no reason, I suppose. Good luck man.
Well, until they cancel you for no reason, I suppose. Good luck man.
| craigmp50 | 02-24-2004 12:20 PM |
This is now common in the industry. If you make the mistake of calling your homeowners insurance company to inquire about coverage under your policy, they enter it on a central data base, and I understand that it can count against you the same as a claim would have. They reason that if you find out that a potential claim is under the deductable threshold, you may elect to not have it fixed.
| Nargaredama | 02-24-2004 01:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Buckeye Kid[/i]
[B] ALWAYS buy supplemental insurance for this. I can't imagine how many people must be autocrossing without coverage and not realize this. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but the insurance company MUST protect itself from this type of heightened risk. A standard insurance policy is written for the normal communting/pleasure driver, not an amateur race car driver. If the policy extended coverage to racing-type events, everyone's rate would increase to cover the added cost of paying claims arising from these situations.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Have any suggestions for companies that sell supplemental track day or auto-x nsurance? What does it cost?
Thanks
Scott
[B] ALWAYS buy supplemental insurance for this. I can't imagine how many people must be autocrossing without coverage and not realize this. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but the insurance company MUST protect itself from this type of heightened risk. A standard insurance policy is written for the normal communting/pleasure driver, not an amateur race car driver. If the policy extended coverage to racing-type events, everyone's rate would increase to cover the added cost of paying claims arising from these situations.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Have any suggestions for companies that sell supplemental track day or auto-x nsurance? What does it cost?
Thanks
Scott
| fastwrx | 02-24-2004 01:39 PM |
The supplemental policy is American Collectors Insurance, I think. They insure collector cars and are recommended by USAA for that. They just have a "referral relationship," I believe. I don't believe they inform each other of clients' policies. In fact, that would be a violation of privacy.
The only reason USAA dropped me was because I asked about coverage on the track. I know this to be true, because they told me as much.
Mike
PS. Here's the link to American Collectors Insurance:
[url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_quali.htm[/url]
The only reason USAA dropped me was because I asked about coverage on the track. I know this to be true, because they told me as much.
Mike
PS. Here's the link to American Collectors Insurance:
[url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_quali.htm[/url]
| sonicblue | 02-24-2004 02:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by reks[/i]
[B] That makes absolutely no sense. If you flip a coin 10 times and get 10 heads in a row, your chance of getting a head on the 11th flip is still 50%.
Since part of your % chance to get into a car accident is the way you drive a long clean driving record would indicate that your chance is actually lower. So, statistically, you're less likely to get into a car accident on any given day.
Just because you haven't gotten into an accident doesn't mean you are 'due'. That's like saying your 11th flip has to be tails.
I suppose you never know, but I'd be surprised if any educated analyst held this position. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoctorBob[/i]
[B] They don't. Actuaries are really good at math.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Hi, there, actuary here! Let's say you have 9 years of history, a "0" is no claim/accident in a year a "1" means there was. If each is equally likely, the string of "000000000" is about a 1 in 500 shot. Now, the 10th year. Yes, it's equally likely to have "0000000001" or "0000000000," but think of it this way instead: there are 10 ways to have 10 years of history with only one year with a claim ("1000000000," "01000000000," etc...)., so it's 10x more likely you'd have a claim this year rather than go without yet again. This isn't exactly how insurance works, but it is how conditional probabilities work. Because auto insurance is priced on multi-year, long-term bases, it does have some sense of this theory so it really can become the "you're due" philosophy.
However, I would still be surprised that you would get dropped from lack of activity. Worst case, you'd lose a claims-free discount or such.
NOTE: in practice, if you got heads 10 times in a row on a fair quarter, you'd revise your opinion of whether the quarter was fair or not, which is akin to a "good driver" discount, but the above conditional probability logic would still say you were more likely to have a claim.
[B] That makes absolutely no sense. If you flip a coin 10 times and get 10 heads in a row, your chance of getting a head on the 11th flip is still 50%.
Since part of your % chance to get into a car accident is the way you drive a long clean driving record would indicate that your chance is actually lower. So, statistically, you're less likely to get into a car accident on any given day.
Just because you haven't gotten into an accident doesn't mean you are 'due'. That's like saying your 11th flip has to be tails.
I suppose you never know, but I'd be surprised if any educated analyst held this position. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DoctorBob[/i]
[B] They don't. Actuaries are really good at math.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Hi, there, actuary here! Let's say you have 9 years of history, a "0" is no claim/accident in a year a "1" means there was. If each is equally likely, the string of "000000000" is about a 1 in 500 shot. Now, the 10th year. Yes, it's equally likely to have "0000000001" or "0000000000," but think of it this way instead: there are 10 ways to have 10 years of history with only one year with a claim ("1000000000," "01000000000," etc...)., so it's 10x more likely you'd have a claim this year rather than go without yet again. This isn't exactly how insurance works, but it is how conditional probabilities work. Because auto insurance is priced on multi-year, long-term bases, it does have some sense of this theory so it really can become the "you're due" philosophy.
However, I would still be surprised that you would get dropped from lack of activity. Worst case, you'd lose a claims-free discount or such.
NOTE: in practice, if you got heads 10 times in a row on a fair quarter, you'd revise your opinion of whether the quarter was fair or not, which is akin to a "good driver" discount, but the above conditional probability logic would still say you were more likely to have a claim.
| LotusDriftx | 02-24-2004 02:34 PM |
wow that supplemental insurance seems like a great deal for peice of mind. Too bad its not available in VA.
Thanks for the heads up, and I am pretty upset with USAA for it, but now they will never find out I am a better than average driver thanks to my time spent on the track.
Thanks for the heads up, and I am pretty upset with USAA for it, but now they will never find out I am a better than average driver thanks to my time spent on the track.
| fledis | 02-24-2004 05:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by emulous [/i]
[B]the first question out of USAA was "Do you intend to do any racing with this vehicle?" [/B][/QUOTE]
I've been asked this exact question by USAA when insuring my past several vehicles. When I called to insure my wife's Bravada, I actually asked the representative if anyone has ever said yes and she said that she's heard that 1 guy said yes and that he was subsequently not offered coverage. I would never have considered asking that question when calling about my Supra TT or STi....would raise way too many eyebrows:eek:
Sorry to hear about your situation.
BTW, I've been a USAA member for ~17 years.
[B]the first question out of USAA was "Do you intend to do any racing with this vehicle?" [/B][/QUOTE]
I've been asked this exact question by USAA when insuring my past several vehicles. When I called to insure my wife's Bravada, I actually asked the representative if anyone has ever said yes and she said that she's heard that 1 guy said yes and that he was subsequently not offered coverage. I would never have considered asking that question when calling about my Supra TT or STi....would raise way too many eyebrows:eek:
Sorry to hear about your situation.
BTW, I've been a USAA member for ~17 years.
| CirrusWRX | 05-18-2004 04:23 PM |
I currently have Amica and made the mistake of inquiring about their coverage for AutoX/HPDE's a few weeks ago. I was contacted yesterday that after a discussion with one of the underwriters, not only would they NOT cover damage during driver education events, but that they were considering dropping me altogether :eek:
Fortunately, they seem like a good company. My parents have had them for home owners/auto for MANY MANY years, and I've been with them since I started driving 6 years ago, clean record, one claim last year on my WRX for a hit and run fender/bumper replacement. After speaking with a rep and explaining that I think there has been a terrible misunderstanding about AutoX/HPDE, I offered to write a document explaining them in the best detail that I could. It ended up being 5 pages in length, but my conclusions, obviously biased towards AutoX/HPDE, basically came to the following:
Racing != AutoX/HPDE
Associating racing or dangerous �street behavior� with AutoX/HPDE is like associating stabbings with a culinary institute.
I'm awaiting to hear back their final judgement on the matter, but I encouraged anybody who was interested to ACTUALLY ATTEND an event before blindly labeling it a "dangerous activity."
Fortunately, they seem like a good company. My parents have had them for home owners/auto for MANY MANY years, and I've been with them since I started driving 6 years ago, clean record, one claim last year on my WRX for a hit and run fender/bumper replacement. After speaking with a rep and explaining that I think there has been a terrible misunderstanding about AutoX/HPDE, I offered to write a document explaining them in the best detail that I could. It ended up being 5 pages in length, but my conclusions, obviously biased towards AutoX/HPDE, basically came to the following:
Racing != AutoX/HPDE
Associating racing or dangerous �street behavior� with AutoX/HPDE is like associating stabbings with a culinary institute.
I'm awaiting to hear back their final judgement on the matter, but I encouraged anybody who was interested to ACTUALLY ATTEND an event before blindly labeling it a "dangerous activity."
| ChrisF | 05-18-2004 06:08 PM |
Wow. I'm really shocked to hear this. I've been a member for 15 years. Funny thing is, last February I did a track event with our EVO and called USAA before it to ask them:
"What is USAA's position on driver education and performance driving clinics and coverage?"
At the time the woman was very nice and informed me that there would be no coverage in the event of loss and that they considered these events tantamount to racing. I said "thank you" and hung up. She did not ask if I was going to actually do one.
Our policy has since come up since then and our coverage continued. We now have both and EVO and an STi under coverage. Based on what I've read, I'm going to start considering other options. That's absolutely horrible. I can definitely live with being responsible if our cars were damaged at the track, but come on - to drop my coverage because I "might" race?
The dividends just don't make it worth it anymore.
"What is USAA's position on driver education and performance driving clinics and coverage?"
At the time the woman was very nice and informed me that there would be no coverage in the event of loss and that they considered these events tantamount to racing. I said "thank you" and hung up. She did not ask if I was going to actually do one.
Our policy has since come up since then and our coverage continued. We now have both and EVO and an STi under coverage. Based on what I've read, I'm going to start considering other options. That's absolutely horrible. I can definitely live with being responsible if our cars were damaged at the track, but come on - to drop my coverage because I "might" race?
The dividends just don't make it worth it anymore.
| wrrrx | 05-19-2004 12:46 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by LotusDrift [/i]
[B]wow that supplemental insurance seems like a great deal for peice of mind. Too bad its not available in VA. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah- or 37 other states!! :mad:
I wrote these guys within the last year, looking for coverage and got a nice reply basically saying "maybe someday".
I cannot find any coverage for "HPDE" events anywhere- what the hell do people in the "other 38" states do??
Ugh.
I like USAA (26 year member), but this one factor really pisses me off!
Russ R
[B]wow that supplemental insurance seems like a great deal for peice of mind. Too bad its not available in VA. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah- or 37 other states!! :mad:
I wrote these guys within the last year, looking for coverage and got a nice reply basically saying "maybe someday".
I cannot find any coverage for "HPDE" events anywhere- what the hell do people in the "other 38" states do??
Ugh.
I like USAA (26 year member), but this one factor really pisses me off!
Russ R
| Nikko | 05-19-2004 04:28 AM |
The only thing you need to remember is that insurance companies RAPE you. Period.
| Mike Wevrick | 05-19-2004 09:32 AM |
:rolleyes: They just want to minimize their risks like most companies.
| CirrusWRX | 05-21-2004 09:57 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mike Wevrick [/i]
[B]:rolleyes: They just want to minimize their risks like most companies. [/B][/QUOTE]
Obviously, but when their entire business is BASED around risk, there is one simple solution: raise the rates appropriately. Instead, they simply choose to put their heads in the sand.
Spoke with Amica again today, and they will be cancelling my policy. They're still deciding whether I will get 60 days or the remaining 12 months :rolleyes: I put together a document outlining it, and they still say they are not willing to keep me. I said I'd be more than willing to provide supplemental insurance for the events and they said there was no way that would make any difference to them :rolleyes:
So of course I asked how often this has happened, being as they are supposedly a small insurance group, and they stated this was the first time. I also protested to the fact that there was absolutely NO mention of this kind of behavior either implicitly or EXPLICITLY NOT being covered, which is why I called and asked in the first place. So let that be a lesson to you all that was stated- In order to find out the truth about your companies policy, simply have a random person and hypothetically ask them since if you apparently ask them yourself, you're done :rolleyes:
I'd gladly pay a premium to cover my so-called "behavior" but that's not even in their interest. They'd rather lose a driver with a clean record than to accomodate. They don't advertise and all their business is supposedly via word of mouth. I'm not going to go out of my way to bad mouth Amica, but I surely won't be recommending them or using them ever again in my life. It's rather unfortunate, but if they don't feel like they're losing anything (though the woman on the phone profusely appoligized to me over and over again...) then I guess I don't either.
I asked them to clarify what, if any, research, statistics, investigation etc. was done involving AutoX/HPDE, and their answer, as I suspsected was none. It's somewhat embarassing to me for a company that insures automobiles to write in their policy several instances of coverage during nuclear war and states of anarchy, yet they fail to mention anything about driver education events one way or the other.
Thus at this point forward, regardless if they keep my policy for two months or 12, I'll be looking for new insurance. Anybody have any recommendations?
[B]:rolleyes: They just want to minimize their risks like most companies. [/B][/QUOTE]
Obviously, but when their entire business is BASED around risk, there is one simple solution: raise the rates appropriately. Instead, they simply choose to put their heads in the sand.
Spoke with Amica again today, and they will be cancelling my policy. They're still deciding whether I will get 60 days or the remaining 12 months :rolleyes: I put together a document outlining it, and they still say they are not willing to keep me. I said I'd be more than willing to provide supplemental insurance for the events and they said there was no way that would make any difference to them :rolleyes:
So of course I asked how often this has happened, being as they are supposedly a small insurance group, and they stated this was the first time. I also protested to the fact that there was absolutely NO mention of this kind of behavior either implicitly or EXPLICITLY NOT being covered, which is why I called and asked in the first place. So let that be a lesson to you all that was stated- In order to find out the truth about your companies policy, simply have a random person and hypothetically ask them since if you apparently ask them yourself, you're done :rolleyes:
I'd gladly pay a premium to cover my so-called "behavior" but that's not even in their interest. They'd rather lose a driver with a clean record than to accomodate. They don't advertise and all their business is supposedly via word of mouth. I'm not going to go out of my way to bad mouth Amica, but I surely won't be recommending them or using them ever again in my life. It's rather unfortunate, but if they don't feel like they're losing anything (though the woman on the phone profusely appoligized to me over and over again...) then I guess I don't either.
I asked them to clarify what, if any, research, statistics, investigation etc. was done involving AutoX/HPDE, and their answer, as I suspsected was none. It's somewhat embarassing to me for a company that insures automobiles to write in their policy several instances of coverage during nuclear war and states of anarchy, yet they fail to mention anything about driver education events one way or the other.
Thus at this point forward, regardless if they keep my policy for two months or 12, I'll be looking for new insurance. Anybody have any recommendations?
| hunts | 05-21-2004 12:30 PM |
fastwrx: sorry they cancelled your insurance. That's really not nice of them at all. But I must say that is a very well written letter you have there!
| 2004STiGuy | 05-23-2004 09:45 AM |
USAA homeowner's insurance doesn't cover floods, but you can buy supplemental insurance for flood damage. Seems like the same thing to me. They wouldn't drop your homeowner's coverage if you bought flood insurance because the two things aren't related. If a flood happens, the supplemental covers it and not the primary. Should be the same for regular driving and DE. It's funny that USAA actually recommended motorcycle DE when I had a motorcycle insured with them and that they actually dropped my rates when I provided proof that I had taken the class (like the military gave me any choice in taking the class or not). Seems to be a disconnect here. While some things about USAA have been good (like they replaced the windshield in my wife's Pathfinder three times with no hassle and no increase in rates), I have never really shopped around. I have just continued to use them for the last decade for just about everything. Some things lately have led me to question their true committment to me as the customer. Maybe it's time to call around...
On a side note, I guess I won't be calling to ask if I buy a trampoline, will it affect my homeowner's rates.
On a side note, I guess I won't be calling to ask if I buy a trampoline, will it affect my homeowner's rates.
| Mike Wevrick | 05-23-2004 10:12 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CirrusWRX [/i]
[B]Obviously, but when their entire business is BASED around risk, there is one simple solution: raise the rates appropriately. Instead, they simply choose to put their heads in the sand.
Thus at this point forward, regardless if they keep my policy for two months or 12, I'll be looking for new insurance. Anybody have any recommendations? [/B][/QUOTE]
I sympathize with you, but it is their choice whether to cover you or not. They don't have to give you a logical reason.
I like Liberty Mutual; no idea what their policy is on track events though.
[B]Obviously, but when their entire business is BASED around risk, there is one simple solution: raise the rates appropriately. Instead, they simply choose to put their heads in the sand.
Thus at this point forward, regardless if they keep my policy for two months or 12, I'll be looking for new insurance. Anybody have any recommendations? [/B][/QUOTE]
I sympathize with you, but it is their choice whether to cover you or not. They don't have to give you a logical reason.
I like Liberty Mutual; no idea what their policy is on track events though.
| Buckeye Kid | 05-23-2004 12:58 PM |
2004STIGuy:
I hate to be a 'negative nelly', but a trampoline at your house may put you in the same position with your homeowners insurance as the AutoXing did with fastwrx's auto insurance. As an insurance agent, one of the required questions I have to ask a new client is if they have a trampoline at thier home. If they do, none of the insurance companies I work with will insure you.
I just had a claim about 3 months ago where one of my current clients boight a trampoline. He had a party and two wives got drunk and started jumping on the trampoline (these weren't 22 year olds, these were 45 year old soccer moms :P) Well, as you can imagine, one of them fell off and got pretty scratched up (lost a few teeth) and sued the owner of the trampoline for the medical bills and some pain and suffering (said the owners wife 'bounced her off'). The homeowners insurance paid the claim then cancelled the homeowners insurance. In addition, this client could no longer buy homeowners insurance except through a government subsidised plan which only covered his actual house for fire damage (no liability)! And the cost of that was about $1500 a year!
The insurance companies want to provide you with good coverage, but this is America, and one person can ruin some pretty good stuff for all of us :( Peoples stupidity never amazes me anymore.
I hate to be a 'negative nelly', but a trampoline at your house may put you in the same position with your homeowners insurance as the AutoXing did with fastwrx's auto insurance. As an insurance agent, one of the required questions I have to ask a new client is if they have a trampoline at thier home. If they do, none of the insurance companies I work with will insure you.
I just had a claim about 3 months ago where one of my current clients boight a trampoline. He had a party and two wives got drunk and started jumping on the trampoline (these weren't 22 year olds, these were 45 year old soccer moms :P) Well, as you can imagine, one of them fell off and got pretty scratched up (lost a few teeth) and sued the owner of the trampoline for the medical bills and some pain and suffering (said the owners wife 'bounced her off'). The homeowners insurance paid the claim then cancelled the homeowners insurance. In addition, this client could no longer buy homeowners insurance except through a government subsidised plan which only covered his actual house for fire damage (no liability)! And the cost of that was about $1500 a year!
The insurance companies want to provide you with good coverage, but this is America, and one person can ruin some pretty good stuff for all of us :( Peoples stupidity never amazes me anymore.
| Mike Wevrick | 05-23-2004 01:11 PM |
Good points; I have heard of homeowner insurance being cancelled just because someone called and asked about some hypothetical problem.
| jmacdonald801 | 05-23-2004 03:16 PM |
I'm with state farm. I've been with them for 10 years now. Once you've been in their mutual insurance program for 10 years you can not be cancelled.
:)
Of course I would never tell them if I raced, what's the point, I only expect to be covered on the street, not on the track.
:)
Of course I would never tell them if I raced, what's the point, I only expect to be covered on the street, not on the track.
| imprezziva | 05-24-2004 02:37 AM |
I have been using USAA for years and they have hands down been the best in terms of coverage and response. The only think I dont like USAA for is renters, it was a nightmare just getting a quote, went elsewhere for that.
Unlike you I have had tickets and accidents, and whenever I call on quotes for cars i ALWAYS answer no to the question of will I be racing the car.
For the most part it was always true, til I called the other night inquiring on an STi.
But yeah, dont ask dont ask. Always say no. race at your own risk and pay to play.
Sorry this happened to you.
Unlike you I have had tickets and accidents, and whenever I call on quotes for cars i ALWAYS answer no to the question of will I be racing the car.
For the most part it was always true, til I called the other night inquiring on an STi.
But yeah, dont ask dont ask. Always say no. race at your own risk and pay to play.
Sorry this happened to you.
| WRXRgr | 10-02-2004 02:36 PM |
[QUOTE=LJG33]This may or may not be true, but I was once told drivers with perfect records for such a long time are often in danger of being dropped by their insurance companies. [/QUOTE]
That may have been true some time ago, but it's not the current "model" used for determing who to cancel, on auto and homeowners insurance.
The insurance industry as whole took some heavy hits with stock market investments, and significant natural disaster losses in last 5-7 years, and they've begun taking some pretty severe measures to keep from going down.
One of them is the concept that "Some people make claims, some don't, and some make lots of claims." What they are doing in the last couple of years, is trying to ID and cull out the people that make "lots of claims", regardless of fault (this includes homeowner stuff, even for things like hail, wind damage, etc). In some states, they can't cancel you, but they can "decline to renew" you when the time comes. You end up in a pool with other people that just seem to have a lot of claims, and basically your treated like an assigned risk...your new insuror WILL ask how you were with, and why you left them.
I raised my homeowner's policy to 2k, simply because I don't want to go thru the hassle of shopping etc for new policy, and it also trimmed the premium down handsomely, with USAA, btw.
As far as USAA auto, I called before I bought the WRX, and was quoted $865 for it and an 85 Camry, with middling higher limits, in southeast Georgia...for SIX MONTHS!! <Edit: I did make a point telling them this was for a WRX, not STi>
I'm in my forties, have no tickets, no accidents (at fault or otherwise), have numerous defensive driving courses, and have been with USAA for auto since 1983.
I was thinking about *not* buying the WRX, for a few minutes, after hearing that quote.
Fortunately, I called Geico. They quoted about $650/year, for same coverages...
Progressive quoted me about $550/year, again same coverages & limits. Guess who I went with? Subsequently, I met a gal who worked adjusting for a while, and she said Progressive is awful on paying and she'd never insure with them...<shrugs>.
That may have been true some time ago, but it's not the current "model" used for determing who to cancel, on auto and homeowners insurance.
The insurance industry as whole took some heavy hits with stock market investments, and significant natural disaster losses in last 5-7 years, and they've begun taking some pretty severe measures to keep from going down.
One of them is the concept that "Some people make claims, some don't, and some make lots of claims." What they are doing in the last couple of years, is trying to ID and cull out the people that make "lots of claims", regardless of fault (this includes homeowner stuff, even for things like hail, wind damage, etc). In some states, they can't cancel you, but they can "decline to renew" you when the time comes. You end up in a pool with other people that just seem to have a lot of claims, and basically your treated like an assigned risk...your new insuror WILL ask how you were with, and why you left them.
I raised my homeowner's policy to 2k, simply because I don't want to go thru the hassle of shopping etc for new policy, and it also trimmed the premium down handsomely, with USAA, btw.
As far as USAA auto, I called before I bought the WRX, and was quoted $865 for it and an 85 Camry, with middling higher limits, in southeast Georgia...for SIX MONTHS!! <Edit: I did make a point telling them this was for a WRX, not STi>
I'm in my forties, have no tickets, no accidents (at fault or otherwise), have numerous defensive driving courses, and have been with USAA for auto since 1983.
I was thinking about *not* buying the WRX, for a few minutes, after hearing that quote.
Fortunately, I called Geico. They quoted about $650/year, for same coverages...
Progressive quoted me about $550/year, again same coverages & limits. Guess who I went with? Subsequently, I met a gal who worked adjusting for a while, and she said Progressive is awful on paying and she'd never insure with them...<shrugs>.
| Cabal | 10-02-2004 07:14 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXRgr]Fortunately, I called Geico. They quoted about $650/year, for same coverages...
Progressive quoted me about $550/year, again same coverages & limits. Guess who I went with? Subsequently, I met a gal who worked adjusting for a while, and she said Progressive is awful on paying and she'd never insure with them...<shrugs>.[/QUOTE]
If you ever need to file a claim, you do NOT want to be with Geico or Progressive. You'd be better off throwing your money down a toilet. Sorry, chief.
Progressive quoted me about $550/year, again same coverages & limits. Guess who I went with? Subsequently, I met a gal who worked adjusting for a while, and she said Progressive is awful on paying and she'd never insure with them...<shrugs>.[/QUOTE]
If you ever need to file a claim, you do NOT want to be with Geico or Progressive. You'd be better off throwing your money down a toilet. Sorry, chief.
| WRXRgr | 10-02-2004 07:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Cabal]If you ever need to file a claim, you do NOT want to be with Geico or Progressive. You'd be better off throwing your money down a toilet. Sorry, chief.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, komrad... :lol:
Thanks, komrad... :lol:
| nathansvt | 10-02-2004 07:29 PM |
I switched from USAA to progressive and have had claims with both. Progressive claims was faster and more courteous, and both paid on the claims.
| AntiochCali | 10-03-2004 12:12 PM |
[QUOTE=Buckeye Kid]There is no coverage for any type of racing event written into your auto insurance policy automatically, so regardless of if you tell your insurance company or not about the events, if you have a claim arise from the event it will not be covered and you will be cancelled. ALWAYS buy supplemental insurance for this. I can't imagine how many people must be autocrossing without coverage and not realize this. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but the insurance company MUST protect itself from this type of heightened risk. A standard insurance policy is written for the normal communting/pleasure driver, not an amateur race car driver. If the policy extended coverage to racing-type events, everyone's rate would increase to cover the added cost of paying claims arising from these situations.
I wanted to verify this information, and I pulled out an insurance policy contract from Progressive auto insurance company. On page 8 of the policy contract this is stated:
Quote
'Coverage under this Part 1, including our duty to defend, does not apply to:
... bodily injury or property damage resulting from any pre-arranged or organized racing, speed or demolition contest, stunting activity, or in practice or preparation for any such contest or acitivty...'
Endquote
This may not be your insurance company, but I am 100% sure every insurance company out there has a provision for this in their contract. Sorry.[/QUOTE]
I contacted my insurance company and they asked me if it was a timed event. I told them, "No" and they said I'm covered. They will not cover any racing event, but HPDE - High Performance Drivers Education, is covered because it is NOT a racing event.
I wanted to verify this information, and I pulled out an insurance policy contract from Progressive auto insurance company. On page 8 of the policy contract this is stated:
Quote
'Coverage under this Part 1, including our duty to defend, does not apply to:
... bodily injury or property damage resulting from any pre-arranged or organized racing, speed or demolition contest, stunting activity, or in practice or preparation for any such contest or acitivty...'
Endquote
This may not be your insurance company, but I am 100% sure every insurance company out there has a provision for this in their contract. Sorry.[/QUOTE]
I contacted my insurance company and they asked me if it was a timed event. I told them, "No" and they said I'm covered. They will not cover any racing event, but HPDE - High Performance Drivers Education, is covered because it is NOT a racing event.
| Magnum626 | 10-04-2004 05:31 AM |
what company is this? ^
| inSaNE iRIsH | 10-04-2004 08:33 AM |
i would highly recommend contacting NASA about this and informing them of such issues. straight off NASA's website
[QUOTE]Body damage to cars very rarely occurs, however you are encouraged to check with your insurance company regarding coverage. Most insurance companies cover damages to your car during the school (HPDE) portion of the event. Be careful if they tell that it is not covered. Agents have been wrong before. Ask them for a list of "eclusions" in YOUR policy and consult and expert. From 1989 to date, there has been zero unpaid claims. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Body damage to cars very rarely occurs, however you are encouraged to check with your insurance company regarding coverage. Most insurance companies cover damages to your car during the school (HPDE) portion of the event. Be careful if they tell that it is not covered. Agents have been wrong before. Ask them for a list of "eclusions" in YOUR policy and consult and expert. From 1989 to date, there has been zero unpaid claims. [/QUOTE]
| Buckeye Kid | 10-04-2004 08:54 AM |
It looks like most insurance companies consider organized 'time-attack' events like SCCA and NASA high-performance driving school instead or organized street racing. It's always good to check with your individual comapny though. And if your agent is unfamiliar with what events like SCCA and NASA are, they probably will consider it street racing and give you the wrong advice.
| CirrusWRX | 10-04-2004 09:07 AM |
[QUOTE=Buckeye Kid]It looks like most insurance companies consider organized 'time-attack' events like SCCA and NASA high-performance driving school instead or organized street racing. It's always good to check with your individual comapny though. And if your agent is unfamiliar with what events like SCCA and NASA are, they probably will consider it street racing and give you the wrong advice.[/QUOTE]
Well, the subject of this thread is to warn others to STRONGLY RECOMMEND AGAINST asking your insurance provider their stance on coverage. I know I made the mistake with Amica - I *ASKED* them their policy on HPDE/AutoX and they said they'd get back to me in a few days. They got back to me, said they can't cover them, and that I wouldn't be renewed next term. :rolleyes:
I specifically outlined what HPDE's consisted of and how they worked, even offered to video tape one, or have an insurance rep come out to one before I would ever partake in one. They refused (and were "very" apologetic.) I asked them why I wouldn't be refused simply for asking about their policy, and they basically said, "Because since you asked about it, you're probably going to do it regardless of what we say and we don't need the risk."
Fair enough -> Amica = bye bye. I am fortunate enough to have found another provider where I'm saving money and have near identical coverage. :shrug: Their loss, I suppose.
Well, the subject of this thread is to warn others to STRONGLY RECOMMEND AGAINST asking your insurance provider their stance on coverage. I know I made the mistake with Amica - I *ASKED* them their policy on HPDE/AutoX and they said they'd get back to me in a few days. They got back to me, said they can't cover them, and that I wouldn't be renewed next term. :rolleyes:
I specifically outlined what HPDE's consisted of and how they worked, even offered to video tape one, or have an insurance rep come out to one before I would ever partake in one. They refused (and were "very" apologetic.) I asked them why I wouldn't be refused simply for asking about their policy, and they basically said, "Because since you asked about it, you're probably going to do it regardless of what we say and we don't need the risk."
Fair enough -> Amica = bye bye. I am fortunate enough to have found another provider where I'm saving money and have near identical coverage. :shrug: Their loss, I suppose.
| Midwayman | 09-15-2006 01:39 PM |
Yup. It seems that insurance companies always assume that you will do anything you ask about, or have already done it and are really asking if you have to lie to get coverage.
| SlideWRX | 09-15-2006 02:52 PM |
Holy back from the dead conversation, Batman!
By the way, the american collectors ins link isn't working. I'd actually consider putting the rally car on a separate policy that understands that it's a rally car, and I only need insurance for transit situations.
Tom
By the way, the american collectors ins link isn't working. I'd actually consider putting the rally car on a separate policy that understands that it's a rally car, and I only need insurance for transit situations.
Tom
| LastResort | 09-15-2006 03:01 PM |
fastwrx, did USAA ever contact you in regards to your letter? realizing it's a 2 year old thread.
| Patrick Olsen | 09-15-2006 10:50 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXRgr;7696749]As far as USAA auto, I called before I bought the WRX, and was quoted $865 for it and an 85 Camry, with middling higher limits, in southeast Georgia...for SIX MONTHS!!
Fortunately, I called Geico. They quoted about $650/year, for same coverages...
Progressive quoted me about $550/year, again same coverages & limits. [/QUOTE]
I went from $1800 for six months with Progressive to $450 for 6 months with USAA - same 2 cars, same 1 driver, same coverage, etc etc. Oh, and when I totalled my first Legacy during an HPDE in 2000 it was covered by USAA (and yes, I told them exactly where and how it happened).
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Fortunately, I called Geico. They quoted about $650/year, for same coverages...
Progressive quoted me about $550/year, again same coverages & limits. [/QUOTE]
I went from $1800 for six months with Progressive to $450 for 6 months with USAA - same 2 cars, same 1 driver, same coverage, etc etc. Oh, and when I totalled my first Legacy during an HPDE in 2000 it was covered by USAA (and yes, I told them exactly where and how it happened).
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| dibblejr | 09-26-2006 08:12 PM |
Dude,
Welcome to the club. Later on you will find that USAA will report you as a loss. It happened to me a few years ago now, I got the same letter in the mail, notice of non-renewell. I had them for 12 years with no tickets ever and no accidents no claims at all. But when my car got stollen and then vandalized they refused to pay the loss and dropped me.
The other day I got a copy of my credit report and they claimed they took a loss.
I called them and they say because they lost my business it is totally legal to report this as a loss on my credit report.
Usaa has an unlimited budget for council to represent them, they are unbeatable. If you do a search online you will find a long list of people just like you and I. Some have went to jail ( including a retired 2 star general).
Walk away from them and dont look back. I probably referred over 1,000 soldiers to them during my stay with them.
Good luck
Jay-R
[QUOTE=fastwrx;5780460]Hi all,
Well.. I made the mistake of asking USAA about coverage during HPDE events. "No good deed goes unpunished." "It's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission." And the conventional wisdom to avoid being forthright with insurance companies is definitely true.
Bottom line... I got cancelled!! They are not renewing my policy. This is what I get for being honest and having integrity. Furthermore, this is how they treat a 20-year member who has never had a speeding ticket or a collision. I've never filed a claim.
I went round and round with them on the phone today. I already made arrangments for other insurance. I have supplemental HPDE insurance from American Collectors.
Here is the letter I'm sending to USAA:
[i]USAA
Auto Policy Division
9800 Fredericksburg Road
San Antonio, TX 78288-0001
To Whom It May Concern:
Your company recently cancelled my auto insurance policy for the stated reason, �We will not insure cars that are used on a race track.�
Several months ago, I inquired about coverage for use in �Drivers Education� or �Car Control Clinic� events. I explained that these events are NOT racing events. There are no prizes, timed laps, nor is there �wheel to wheel� racing. These events are organized by car clubs to improve driver skills under very controlled conditions and strict rules. They are held on tracks and large parking lots. Drivers are accompanied by driving instructors. Your representative went to your underwriting committee to inquire.
Your representative called me back and offered the following finding: �We recommend you do not do that.� I hear similar advice from my mother on a number of issues. I expected a bit more from an insurance company. I replied that I thought that was a non-answer and rather than scolding me like a child, I�d prefer to just know what USAA�s policy is. She countered that in the event of damage during one of the events, I would not be covered. I accepted that, and told her there is a company that offers supplemental insurance for just such situations. I inquired with this particular company and was surprised when they asked me if I was a USAA member. It turns out they �partner� with you! I got my supplemental policy and went on my merry way. This was around October of last year.
Then, a week ago, I received your letter notifying me of non-renewal. I was shocked. I cannot see the logic of how your absence of risk, via the track damage exclusion as was explained to me, affects your risk when I�m driving legally on public roads. As an aside� A few months ago, the car control skills I learned saved me (and you) from a probably total loss of my car. An elderly gentleman turned left in front of me on a two-lane road. He didn�t turn until just before I got to the intersection. It was if I was invisible. It was the closest I�ve come to a major car collision in my life. My learned skills got me out of that situation without a scratch. I think I lost some more hair, though! J
I am contacting you, not to beg for reinstatement. I wouldn�t consider it if even offered or if I never participated in another Drivers Ed event. I�ve already arranged for another policy. I called, and am now writing, because I have had such a great previous experience with USAA. I have nothing to gain by writing you at this point, but after being a member for 20 years, I feel a bit obligated to share my feelings. My father has been a member for 40 years! USAA is the only company I�ve known and would have never previously considered another company regardless of price.
Your reputation has always been far and above all other companies. Knowing that was worth a higher premium. I wanted you to know that you are losing a customer with a 20-year history with USAA. I would have been a customer for decades more. I�m 40 years old, and I�ve never had a single traffic ticket. I�ve never had a collision. And, more importantly, I�ve never filed a single claim with USAA. I�ve certainly demonstrated that I am a �good risk� for USAA.
While I could successfully argue the merits of club-sponsored car control clinics, it becomes a moot point upon examining the termination of our relationship a little further. The issue no longer is whether such activity is actually �racing� or whether I would have insurance coverage for those activities. Your representative told me that damages incurred at one of these courses would not be covered. This I accepted and even understand without further question. However, most importantly, your representative did NOT inform me that such participation would put me in a position such that I would LOSE my policy altogether. Had such information been given, I may have altered my decision to participate. Certainly, there is more to consider if I�d lose my policy altogether vs. not having coverage on the track.
All the above was discussed today with Ms. XXXXX. She listened but failed to see my points. She confirmed USAA�s position that any activity on a track or off a public road was RACING. She did apologize for USAA not informing me that I would lose my policy. I explained that my integrity and honesty is what led me to ask USAA about my policy in the first place. No doubt, my honesty was rewarded, or perhaps better said, punished. I would have been better off not inquiring at all and silently obtaining supplemental coverage. I have also learned that USAA Auto is no different than the other companies. Ultimately, I got annoyed at our circular arguments and I had to hang up with Ms. Clark. I had patients waiting for me, and I had no desire to pursue coverage through USAA. The offer to obtain coverage through USAA�s �General Agency� in your non-renewal letter was laughable. Surely, you don�t expect me to reward such poor service with more business with one of your subsidiaries?
While I have already obtained coverage from another company to take effect upon termination of my USAA policy, I am very disappointed about this situation. I really believe USAA should have informed me properly of the consequences BEFOREHAND.
[/i]
What a crock, eh? So all you USAA members... don't breathe a word about HPDE, auto-x, or any other drivers ed courses. I suppose they would rather you street race and get your jollies drifting around corners on public roads.
I would have been better off if I had kept my mouth shut. They would be none the wiser.
Don't ask. Don't tell!
fastwrx[/QUOTE]
Welcome to the club. Later on you will find that USAA will report you as a loss. It happened to me a few years ago now, I got the same letter in the mail, notice of non-renewell. I had them for 12 years with no tickets ever and no accidents no claims at all. But when my car got stollen and then vandalized they refused to pay the loss and dropped me.
The other day I got a copy of my credit report and they claimed they took a loss.
I called them and they say because they lost my business it is totally legal to report this as a loss on my credit report.
Usaa has an unlimited budget for council to represent them, they are unbeatable. If you do a search online you will find a long list of people just like you and I. Some have went to jail ( including a retired 2 star general).
Walk away from them and dont look back. I probably referred over 1,000 soldiers to them during my stay with them.
Good luck
Jay-R
[QUOTE=fastwrx;5780460]Hi all,
Well.. I made the mistake of asking USAA about coverage during HPDE events. "No good deed goes unpunished." "It's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission." And the conventional wisdom to avoid being forthright with insurance companies is definitely true.
Bottom line... I got cancelled!! They are not renewing my policy. This is what I get for being honest and having integrity. Furthermore, this is how they treat a 20-year member who has never had a speeding ticket or a collision. I've never filed a claim.
I went round and round with them on the phone today. I already made arrangments for other insurance. I have supplemental HPDE insurance from American Collectors.
Here is the letter I'm sending to USAA:
[i]USAA
Auto Policy Division
9800 Fredericksburg Road
San Antonio, TX 78288-0001
To Whom It May Concern:
Your company recently cancelled my auto insurance policy for the stated reason, �We will not insure cars that are used on a race track.�
Several months ago, I inquired about coverage for use in �Drivers Education� or �Car Control Clinic� events. I explained that these events are NOT racing events. There are no prizes, timed laps, nor is there �wheel to wheel� racing. These events are organized by car clubs to improve driver skills under very controlled conditions and strict rules. They are held on tracks and large parking lots. Drivers are accompanied by driving instructors. Your representative went to your underwriting committee to inquire.
Your representative called me back and offered the following finding: �We recommend you do not do that.� I hear similar advice from my mother on a number of issues. I expected a bit more from an insurance company. I replied that I thought that was a non-answer and rather than scolding me like a child, I�d prefer to just know what USAA�s policy is. She countered that in the event of damage during one of the events, I would not be covered. I accepted that, and told her there is a company that offers supplemental insurance for just such situations. I inquired with this particular company and was surprised when they asked me if I was a USAA member. It turns out they �partner� with you! I got my supplemental policy and went on my merry way. This was around October of last year.
Then, a week ago, I received your letter notifying me of non-renewal. I was shocked. I cannot see the logic of how your absence of risk, via the track damage exclusion as was explained to me, affects your risk when I�m driving legally on public roads. As an aside� A few months ago, the car control skills I learned saved me (and you) from a probably total loss of my car. An elderly gentleman turned left in front of me on a two-lane road. He didn�t turn until just before I got to the intersection. It was if I was invisible. It was the closest I�ve come to a major car collision in my life. My learned skills got me out of that situation without a scratch. I think I lost some more hair, though! J
I am contacting you, not to beg for reinstatement. I wouldn�t consider it if even offered or if I never participated in another Drivers Ed event. I�ve already arranged for another policy. I called, and am now writing, because I have had such a great previous experience with USAA. I have nothing to gain by writing you at this point, but after being a member for 20 years, I feel a bit obligated to share my feelings. My father has been a member for 40 years! USAA is the only company I�ve known and would have never previously considered another company regardless of price.
Your reputation has always been far and above all other companies. Knowing that was worth a higher premium. I wanted you to know that you are losing a customer with a 20-year history with USAA. I would have been a customer for decades more. I�m 40 years old, and I�ve never had a single traffic ticket. I�ve never had a collision. And, more importantly, I�ve never filed a single claim with USAA. I�ve certainly demonstrated that I am a �good risk� for USAA.
While I could successfully argue the merits of club-sponsored car control clinics, it becomes a moot point upon examining the termination of our relationship a little further. The issue no longer is whether such activity is actually �racing� or whether I would have insurance coverage for those activities. Your representative told me that damages incurred at one of these courses would not be covered. This I accepted and even understand without further question. However, most importantly, your representative did NOT inform me that such participation would put me in a position such that I would LOSE my policy altogether. Had such information been given, I may have altered my decision to participate. Certainly, there is more to consider if I�d lose my policy altogether vs. not having coverage on the track.
All the above was discussed today with Ms. XXXXX. She listened but failed to see my points. She confirmed USAA�s position that any activity on a track or off a public road was RACING. She did apologize for USAA not informing me that I would lose my policy. I explained that my integrity and honesty is what led me to ask USAA about my policy in the first place. No doubt, my honesty was rewarded, or perhaps better said, punished. I would have been better off not inquiring at all and silently obtaining supplemental coverage. I have also learned that USAA Auto is no different than the other companies. Ultimately, I got annoyed at our circular arguments and I had to hang up with Ms. Clark. I had patients waiting for me, and I had no desire to pursue coverage through USAA. The offer to obtain coverage through USAA�s �General Agency� in your non-renewal letter was laughable. Surely, you don�t expect me to reward such poor service with more business with one of your subsidiaries?
While I have already obtained coverage from another company to take effect upon termination of my USAA policy, I am very disappointed about this situation. I really believe USAA should have informed me properly of the consequences BEFOREHAND.
[/i]
What a crock, eh? So all you USAA members... don't breathe a word about HPDE, auto-x, or any other drivers ed courses. I suppose they would rather you street race and get your jollies drifting around corners on public roads.
I would have been better off if I had kept my mouth shut. They would be none the wiser.
Don't ask. Don't tell!
fastwrx[/QUOTE]
| Mykl | 09-26-2006 08:34 PM |
[QUOTE=dibblejr;15394781]Dude,
Welcome to the club. Later on you will find that USAA will report you as a loss. It happened to me a few years ago now, I got the same letter in the mail, notice of non-renewell. I had them for 12 years with no tickets ever and no accidents no claims at all. But when my car got stollen and then vandalized they refused to pay the loss and dropped me.
The other day I got a copy of my credit report and they claimed they took a loss.
I called them and they say because they lost my business it is totally legal to report this as a loss on my credit report.
Usaa has an unlimited budget for council to represent them, they are unbeatable. If you do a search online you will find a long list of people just like you and I. Some have went to jail ( including a retired 2 star general).
Walk away from them and dont look back. I probably referred over 1,000 soldiers to them during my stay with them.
Good luck
Jay-R[/QUOTE]
What the hell? How did that work? Your car got stolen and they didn't honor the policy? How did a two star go to jail???
<---- USAA member thinking about calling State Farm
Welcome to the club. Later on you will find that USAA will report you as a loss. It happened to me a few years ago now, I got the same letter in the mail, notice of non-renewell. I had them for 12 years with no tickets ever and no accidents no claims at all. But when my car got stollen and then vandalized they refused to pay the loss and dropped me.
The other day I got a copy of my credit report and they claimed they took a loss.
I called them and they say because they lost my business it is totally legal to report this as a loss on my credit report.
Usaa has an unlimited budget for council to represent them, they are unbeatable. If you do a search online you will find a long list of people just like you and I. Some have went to jail ( including a retired 2 star general).
Walk away from them and dont look back. I probably referred over 1,000 soldiers to them during my stay with them.
Good luck
Jay-R[/QUOTE]
What the hell? How did that work? Your car got stolen and they didn't honor the policy? How did a two star go to jail???
<---- USAA member thinking about calling State Farm
| ChrisF | 09-26-2006 08:39 PM |
I'm sorry, but there seem to be a few puzzle pieces missing here. As far as I'm aware (YMMV from state to state) the only basis for declaring an item on your credit report is late or non-payment. Insuring loss is the very nature of what insurers do. That is what your premium is for. If this IS true, which I'm having a hard time believing, my first call would be to my state insurance commissioner; second to the credit company asking them to verify the nature of the USAA item reported. Did you maybe refuse to pay your premiums after things went sour???
| dibblejr | 09-26-2006 09:31 PM |
You can think what you want. Insurance companies are no longer regulated, about 15 years of freedom for them to do what they want.
I had lawyers that basically threw their hands up in the air. I wasted 1.5 years of writing letters, driving to meet with state reps. I have an entire filing cabinet drawer full of correspondance.
USAA had "2" board and council meetings about my case and in both instances their comments to me was " we think we can beat you in court and we have a entire team of council to defend us."
My premiums were always paid by lump sum.
You can believe what you want, you are probably too young to understand that insurance companies do not like to pay out. They seek legal advice through their own team to find any loopholes to not pay a claim.
Look at what is going on down in New Orleans that should explain the rest.
My downfall in this case was;
1)I was stationed in Alabama for the Army
2) After the Army transferred me to New York I decided to sell my ride
3) I signed paperwork for the dealer to sell my car for me
4) The dealer didnt sell my car and when I told them I wanted my car, the dealer owner had my car hidden
5) I hired a PI and they found my car
6) My legal rep faxed varrious letters to the dealer
7) The PI continued to watch my car and I flew down to get my car back
8) When I arrived with the spare key to drive my car back to NY it would not start, when I opened the hood I noted everything was gone
9) I contacted USAA and they said no big deal I had full coverage and everything would be fine
10) I spent 15000 getting the car back together expecting a check for all but $250 for my deductable
11) Thats when everything went south. USAA said because I signed my car to the dealership that I violated protocala. The car was supossed to be in my possession and not left on a car lot for resale.
12) The dealerships liscense had run out and they no longer had insurance so USAA could not get a cost share
13) USAA informed me that they were not going to renew my policy because I filed a fraudulant claim reporting my car as stollen when I let the dealer hold it for sale
14) The dealership was closed, all cars were seized by the Al state.
15) The theft ring was much larger than anyone had expected
16) The dealership owner pleaded out of court
17) She got 15 years probation forced to pay everyone she ripped off restitution with me being #1 because I was the one who initiated the case and got it brought before the grand jury
18) I get a whopping $70-90 a month and if she misses one payment no questions asked she goes to jail
19) I fought with USAA to hard and cost me my great insurance rating and now it is the only strike on my credit report.
20) With it being the only strike on my credit report I was still able to buy my 3rd house no problems ( it is just the sensativity of the matter)
If you do not believe the story [url]http://www.bhamnews.com/archives/[/url]
1) Click the link
2) Do a search
3) Type in key words ( car lot owner accused of fraud
4) date from May 14 2004
5) date to May 16 2004
Read the short article. Beware of leaving your car at a dealership tp sell for you.
This lady thought just because I was in NY I could not touch her the arm of the law is long
It did cost me a lot of time and hassle, but she got her justice served, I would rather see her in jail but she gets to laugh because I lost what i thought was a good insurance company.
FYI***
if anyone wants to see how there insurance company is rated just go to; [url]http://www.badfaithinsurance.org[/url] you will be surprised by what you will find. You can type in USAA bad claims to read about the general and a slew of others that go to jail because insurance companies are not regulated and can make shiot up as they go.
In my case I had to write the TX State Att generals Office, AL State Att Gens Office and NY State Att Gens Office all of whom told me that I would have to go to civil court.
I wrote congressionals and the Fed Insurance Commission ( Their job is to help protect insurance companies) not the consumer.
that is why USAA dropped me, because I was to boisterous and an Army leader. I canxed my subscription to the Army Times after 15 years because I wrote them a letter voiceing my concerns and they did not even publish it because" USAA is a key cotributor to their fundint to write the paper".
You guys really know how to un barry a hatchet that i thought I was long done with.
Jay-R
Jay-r
[QUOTE=ChrisF;15395107]I'm sorry, but there seem to be a few puzzle pieces missing here. As far as I'm aware (YMMV from state to state) the only basis for declaring an item on your credit report is late or non-payment. Insuring loss is the very nature of what insurers do. That is what your premium is for. If this IS true, which I'm having a hard time believing, my first call would be to my state insurance commissioner; second to the credit company asking them to verify the nature of the USAA item reported. Did you maybe refuse to pay your premiums after things went sour???[/QUOTE]
I had lawyers that basically threw their hands up in the air. I wasted 1.5 years of writing letters, driving to meet with state reps. I have an entire filing cabinet drawer full of correspondance.
USAA had "2" board and council meetings about my case and in both instances their comments to me was " we think we can beat you in court and we have a entire team of council to defend us."
My premiums were always paid by lump sum.
You can believe what you want, you are probably too young to understand that insurance companies do not like to pay out. They seek legal advice through their own team to find any loopholes to not pay a claim.
Look at what is going on down in New Orleans that should explain the rest.
My downfall in this case was;
1)I was stationed in Alabama for the Army
2) After the Army transferred me to New York I decided to sell my ride
3) I signed paperwork for the dealer to sell my car for me
4) The dealer didnt sell my car and when I told them I wanted my car, the dealer owner had my car hidden
5) I hired a PI and they found my car
6) My legal rep faxed varrious letters to the dealer
7) The PI continued to watch my car and I flew down to get my car back
8) When I arrived with the spare key to drive my car back to NY it would not start, when I opened the hood I noted everything was gone
9) I contacted USAA and they said no big deal I had full coverage and everything would be fine
10) I spent 15000 getting the car back together expecting a check for all but $250 for my deductable
11) Thats when everything went south. USAA said because I signed my car to the dealership that I violated protocala. The car was supossed to be in my possession and not left on a car lot for resale.
12) The dealerships liscense had run out and they no longer had insurance so USAA could not get a cost share
13) USAA informed me that they were not going to renew my policy because I filed a fraudulant claim reporting my car as stollen when I let the dealer hold it for sale
14) The dealership was closed, all cars were seized by the Al state.
15) The theft ring was much larger than anyone had expected
16) The dealership owner pleaded out of court
17) She got 15 years probation forced to pay everyone she ripped off restitution with me being #1 because I was the one who initiated the case and got it brought before the grand jury
18) I get a whopping $70-90 a month and if she misses one payment no questions asked she goes to jail
19) I fought with USAA to hard and cost me my great insurance rating and now it is the only strike on my credit report.
20) With it being the only strike on my credit report I was still able to buy my 3rd house no problems ( it is just the sensativity of the matter)
If you do not believe the story [url]http://www.bhamnews.com/archives/[/url]
1) Click the link
2) Do a search
3) Type in key words ( car lot owner accused of fraud
4) date from May 14 2004
5) date to May 16 2004
Read the short article. Beware of leaving your car at a dealership tp sell for you.
This lady thought just because I was in NY I could not touch her the arm of the law is long
It did cost me a lot of time and hassle, but she got her justice served, I would rather see her in jail but she gets to laugh because I lost what i thought was a good insurance company.
FYI***
if anyone wants to see how there insurance company is rated just go to; [url]http://www.badfaithinsurance.org[/url] you will be surprised by what you will find. You can type in USAA bad claims to read about the general and a slew of others that go to jail because insurance companies are not regulated and can make shiot up as they go.
In my case I had to write the TX State Att generals Office, AL State Att Gens Office and NY State Att Gens Office all of whom told me that I would have to go to civil court.
I wrote congressionals and the Fed Insurance Commission ( Their job is to help protect insurance companies) not the consumer.
that is why USAA dropped me, because I was to boisterous and an Army leader. I canxed my subscription to the Army Times after 15 years because I wrote them a letter voiceing my concerns and they did not even publish it because" USAA is a key cotributor to their fundint to write the paper".
You guys really know how to un barry a hatchet that i thought I was long done with.
Jay-R
Jay-r
[QUOTE=ChrisF;15395107]I'm sorry, but there seem to be a few puzzle pieces missing here. As far as I'm aware (YMMV from state to state) the only basis for declaring an item on your credit report is late or non-payment. Insuring loss is the very nature of what insurers do. That is what your premium is for. If this IS true, which I'm having a hard time believing, my first call would be to my state insurance commissioner; second to the credit company asking them to verify the nature of the USAA item reported. Did you maybe refuse to pay your premiums after things went sour???[/QUOTE]
| dibblejr | 09-26-2006 09:47 PM |
It is long, but it is informative. This is a must read.
That is an abbreviated condensed version of what happened to me. Insurance companies are not out there prowling however when you file a claim they are out to look after themselves first and the insurred 2nd.
Be careful and maybe you will learn something from my loss.
jay-R
That is an abbreviated condensed version of what happened to me. Insurance companies are not out there prowling however when you file a claim they are out to look after themselves first and the insurred 2nd.
Be careful and maybe you will learn something from my loss.
jay-R
| LOLSTi | 09-26-2006 09:51 PM |
Wow, sorry Jay! That blows.
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