| ralliharri | 06-06-2006 11:50 PM |
I can't believe nobody mentioned Michelle Mouton, first woman to win an WRC event and 2nd in the WRC series in 1982, an incredible feat!
| roofis | 06-07-2006 12:24 AM |
No one mentioned Natalie Richard yet either. She's codrived for other talented drivers in her career than just Pat. I've never met her, but she's seen more upper levels of rally than many men will. Also, for those unfamiliar, codriving is [I]much[/I] more involved than reading a map. Gotta be mentally sharp and physically able to take the heat, violent roller coaster sliding and pounding, quick calculations and general stress of the stages.
| Subie Gal | 06-07-2006 12:26 AM |
:lol:
[quote]
Sean O'Gorman
*** Banned ***
Member#: 73310
[/quote]
now that's... funny....
[i]how long do we leave it that way? :D[/i]
Jamie [url=http://www.subiegal.com/][img]http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png[/img][/url]
[quote]
Sean O'Gorman
*** Banned ***
Member#: 73310
[/quote]
now that's... funny....
[i]how long do we leave it that way? :D[/i]
Jamie [url=http://www.subiegal.com/][img]http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png[/img][/url]
| Vampyr | 06-07-2006 07:11 AM |
[QUOTE=ralliharri]I can't believe nobody mentioned Michelle Mouton, first woman to win an WRC event and 2nd in the WRC series in 1982, an incredible feat![/QUOTE]
Sweet!!! That's what I'm talking about!!
Sweet!!! That's what I'm talking about!!
| KC | 06-07-2006 07:38 AM |
[QUOTE=Vampyr]Sweet!!! That's what I'm talking about!![/QUOTE]
Bah... it was an Audi.... they were dominant anyways. :lol:
Bah... it was an Audi.... they were dominant anyways. :lol:
| KC | 06-07-2006 07:40 AM |
[QUOTE=ghschirtz]This forum can stick to racing. It was said that what we need are racers. That is all. If a woman wants to race, has the skills, commitment, etc., all power to her, and I don't care as long as my co-driver has the skills and can perform on the track. That is what it is about and racing is one of the few areas where outright performance is what it is about: male, female, white, or polka dotted.
People generally think they are being .....
*snip*
George[/QUOTE]
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :)
Best post here in a LONG time. :)
People generally think they are being .....
*snip*
George[/QUOTE]
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :)
Best post here in a LONG time. :)
| VpointVick | 06-07-2006 07:56 AM |
Just wanted to point out that Janet Guthrie entered 19 Winston Cup races in 1977, qualified for all of them, and finished sixth at Bristol.
There are a few women running in the stock car world, but there just aren't enough of them to overcome the odds of making it to the top levels of NASCAR.
The sport is too much of a business these days for team owners to continue with the "good ol' boy" network. If somebody is a truely talented driver, they'll have to sign them before somebody else does, whether they're male, female, black, brown, or whatever. It just so happens that the vast majority of people involved in stock car racing, and most other forms of motorsport for that matter, at the grassroots level are white males.
There are a few women running in the stock car world, but there just aren't enough of them to overcome the odds of making it to the top levels of NASCAR.
The sport is too much of a business these days for team owners to continue with the "good ol' boy" network. If somebody is a truely talented driver, they'll have to sign them before somebody else does, whether they're male, female, black, brown, or whatever. It just so happens that the vast majority of people involved in stock car racing, and most other forms of motorsport for that matter, at the grassroots level are white males.
| bjorn240 | 06-07-2006 08:04 AM |
Michelle Mouton won WRC events overall and took 2nd in the '82 WRC Driver's cup. Jutta Kleinschmidt won Paris Dakar in 2001. And there have been a whole host of talented women co-drivers in WRC: Tina Thorner, Ilka Minor, Fabrizia Pons, and I'm sure I'm forgetting lots of them.
| KC | 06-07-2006 08:25 AM |
Natalie Barratt... Pic taken at 2004 Rally Finland.
[IMG]http://www.rallydecals.com/kcpics/rallyfinland2004/images/10.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rallydecals.com/kcpics/rallyfinland2004/images/10.jpg[/IMG]
| bjorn240 | 06-07-2006 09:58 AM |
Oh, and don't forget Jennie Lee Hermansson.
| makofoto | 06-07-2006 10:23 AM |
My german friend's son is dating a young lady in Germany that is apparently doing very well in the german F3 championship. When I lived in Germany, a young friend that was racing karts just barely beat a young women to win his regional championship. Don't know what became of her. He's now a Prof of greek History however. :-)
Seems like there are more and more young girls/women racing karts. I met one dad who's life seems to center around taking care of his 12 year old daughters karting. Recently took her to Canada (from S. CA) where I believe she raced in that STARS program? She even already has a back injury/problem. :-( Hopefully dad won't burn her out ... but perhaps we will finally see more women becoming successful racers.
Seems like there are more and more young girls/women racing karts. I met one dad who's life seems to center around taking care of his 12 year old daughters karting. Recently took her to Canada (from S. CA) where I believe she raced in that STARS program? She even already has a back injury/problem. :-( Hopefully dad won't burn her out ... but perhaps we will finally see more women becoming successful racers.
| turboICE | 06-07-2006 10:34 AM |
Seem to be focusing a lot on the drivers - we need more women in all of racing including sanctioning body leadership positions, car prep, crew, etc. It takes a lot more other people for racing to exist than just the drivers.
At the club level the women are driving, a specialty worker or spectating. They will need to be involved in all aspects of racing from crewing to directors in order to address any enviromental barriers unknown or otherwise to women's participation in racing.
BTW way women are not the only underrepresented group in Motorsports - the paddocks, pits, tracks, stands, officiating boxes and director offices are not at all representative of the general population. This is the case almost anywhere except in the drag racing and car show parts of Motorsports.
At the club level the women are driving, a specialty worker or spectating. They will need to be involved in all aspects of racing from crewing to directors in order to address any enviromental barriers unknown or otherwise to women's participation in racing.
BTW way women are not the only underrepresented group in Motorsports - the paddocks, pits, tracks, stands, officiating boxes and director offices are not at all representative of the general population. This is the case almost anywhere except in the drag racing and car show parts of Motorsports.
| makofoto | 06-07-2006 10:37 AM |
It wasn't that long ago when women were finally allowed access to Gasoline Alley at Indy ... right?
| KC | 06-07-2006 10:39 AM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]Seem to be focusing a lot on the drivers - we need more women in all of racing including sanctioning body leadership positions, car prep, crew, etc. It takes a lot more other people for racing to exist than just the drivers.
At the club level the women are driving, a specialty worker or spectating. They will need to be involved in all aspects of racing from crewing to directors in order to address any enviromental barriers unknown or otherwise to women's participation in racing.
BTW way women are not the only underrepresented group in Motorsports - the paddocks, pits, tracks, stands, officiating boxes and director offices are not at all representative of the general population. This is the case almost anywhere except in the drag racing and car show parts of Motorsports.[/QUOTE]
Ok... in that case...
Kathy Barnes.... NER SCCA Regional Exec.
--kC
At the club level the women are driving, a specialty worker or spectating. They will need to be involved in all aspects of racing from crewing to directors in order to address any enviromental barriers unknown or otherwise to women's participation in racing.
BTW way women are not the only underrepresented group in Motorsports - the paddocks, pits, tracks, stands, officiating boxes and director offices are not at all representative of the general population. This is the case almost anywhere except in the drag racing and car show parts of Motorsports.[/QUOTE]
Ok... in that case...
Kathy Barnes.... NER SCCA Regional Exec.
--kC
| Virrdog | 06-07-2006 11:10 AM |
[QUOTE=Sean O'Gorman]C'mon Karen, I'm surprised, I figured you of all people would've figured out I was just messing around.
<-----Stopping before he gets banned, but still looking forward to his ass-kicking. [IMG]http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/8008/kiss6aa.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
The greatest part is that he is from Parma :lol: :lol: :lol:
<-----Stopping before he gets banned, but still looking forward to his ass-kicking. [IMG]http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/8008/kiss6aa.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
The greatest part is that he is from Parma :lol: :lol: :lol:
| jcroy66 | 06-07-2006 12:10 PM |
Sean just thrives on drama, that's all. He's one of the male drama queens that Tara mentioned. ;)
Continuing KC's point, I believe all the REs of Neohio Region have been female since at least 2000. Most of the National staff involved with running the National Solo program are female.
As for crewing, in my experience with solo, women are just as involved as the men are. Depending on the individual's strength, however, the puny among us (like me) sometimes do the jobs that don't involve as much "heavy lifting". For instance, Oliver is far better at helping Phil break bolts loose and push axles into differentials than me with my puny arms. So I usually do the other stuff - provide tools, make phone calls, operate the jack, make sure numbers are correct, spray tires, whatever. Those jobs are just as important as the heavy lifting jobs. :)
Continuing KC's point, I believe all the REs of Neohio Region have been female since at least 2000. Most of the National staff involved with running the National Solo program are female.
As for crewing, in my experience with solo, women are just as involved as the men are. Depending on the individual's strength, however, the puny among us (like me) sometimes do the jobs that don't involve as much "heavy lifting". For instance, Oliver is far better at helping Phil break bolts loose and push axles into differentials than me with my puny arms. So I usually do the other stuff - provide tools, make phone calls, operate the jack, make sure numbers are correct, spray tires, whatever. Those jobs are just as important as the heavy lifting jobs. :)
| KC | 06-07-2006 12:23 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66] So I usually do the other stuff - provide tools, make phone calls, operate the jack, make sure numbers are correct, spray tires, make sammiches, whatever. Those jobs are just as important as the heavy lifting jobs. :)[/QUOTE]
Agreed. :lol:
Agreed. :lol:
| jcroy66 | 06-07-2006 12:58 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]...make sammiches...[/QUOTE]Nope, apparently that's yet ANOTHER of Chang's crew duties! :D
| 10th Warrior | 06-07-2006 01:06 PM |
[QUOTE=ralliharri]I can't believe nobody mentioned Michelle Mouton, first woman to win an WRC event and 2nd in the WRC series in 1982, an incredible feat![/QUOTE]
well, while we're reaching back, lets not forget Pat Moss either :)
well, while we're reaching back, lets not forget Pat Moss either :)
| leecea | 06-07-2006 01:10 PM |
It is absolutely fine that jcroy66 knows what she's best at.
The problem comes when categories are assigned and assumptions are made. There are women who are capable of doing the heavy stuff and really can't be bothered with making food and getting things organized. Treat everyone as an individual and you can't go far wrong.
The problem comes when categories are assigned and assumptions are made. There are women who are capable of doing the heavy stuff and really can't be bothered with making food and getting things organized. Treat everyone as an individual and you can't go far wrong.
| Kitsune | 06-07-2006 01:12 PM |
I can make a good sandwhich AND lift heavy objects.
| ghschirtz | 06-07-2006 01:15 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]Seem to be focusing a lot on the drivers - we need more women in all of racing including sanctioning body leadership positions, car prep, crew, etc. It takes a lot more other people for racing to exist than just the drivers.
At the club level the women are driving, a specialty worker or spectating. They will need to be involved in all aspects of racing from crewing to directors in order to address any enviromental barriers unknown or otherwise to women's participation in racing.
BTW way women are not the only underrepresented group in Motorsports - the paddocks, pits, tracks, stands, officiating boxes and director offices are not at all representative of the general population. This is the case almost anywhere except in the drag racing and car show parts of Motorsports.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, mate, but again, unless there is a vast conspiracy to exclude people, maybe the reason women and other protected classes are "underrepresented" is natural individual preferences. Shall we establish a quota system here too? What purpose would that serve except to look "modern" and "inclusive"?
I don't want to be on a track with women who got there through a quota. They might be perfectly nice people but unless they are competent, they can be dangerous to themselves and the people around them. That is unacceptable. This is not sandbox, a consequence-free environment.
I don't want to have to sue to make the field, if I was a pro, because slower females (or others different from me) were included for the sake of "diversity". That is what you are talking about the second you decide something other than merit, commitment, skills and personal interest should decide who races or administers events.
The goal is RACING. That is why I am here. The goal is not to make people feel good all the time or exult because a winner is of a certain sex or other characteristic incidental to the fact they are a RACER. I am consistently slower than someone else on the track, but I love being there and I do all I can do to be safe and learn, learn, learn, improve, improve, improve. I leave my ego in the pits. As well as my race, creed, color, age and sex. I am not heroic or moral, either. I just think that is the attitude one should take onto the track. I can drive better, learn more, be safer with that mindset. That is the goal, the only goal here worth pursuing, IMHO.
At every lap day I have attended there are plenty of females working the corners and doing other stuff. Female EMT's. I expected (partly hoped, being single) to see more female drivers, but there are few in this "liberated" land called So Cal. So be it.
I agree that the Danica hype is over the top, even if she is a better role model than Britney or Madonna. But, look at who writes the stories and why. Non-racers, and many boosters of the "protected class" and "soundbite as intellectual thought/in-depth coverage" mentality. Of course their lens sees her sex as a big deal. I have been impressed by the few comments I have heard from her about the two Indy races and the fact she is much smaller than her competitors but can handle the strength and endurance requirements of those cars. I coudn't. Yee haw, Danica. God gave you some real guts and skills. Good on you, racer.
Janet Guthrie was great to listen to. She talked about the car and the race as a racer would, the good, the bad and the indifferent.
Racing is one of the last meritocracies around. Since lives are on the line, potentially, to treat it any other way is criminal and incorrect past redemption.
As Subie Gal said, racing is hard work, a huge commitment, dirty and smelly at times, risky, and filled with pressure. Lots of people, male or female, don't like that kind of job, much less "recreation".
I guess I am up to $0.04, now...
George
At the club level the women are driving, a specialty worker or spectating. They will need to be involved in all aspects of racing from crewing to directors in order to address any enviromental barriers unknown or otherwise to women's participation in racing.
BTW way women are not the only underrepresented group in Motorsports - the paddocks, pits, tracks, stands, officiating boxes and director offices are not at all representative of the general population. This is the case almost anywhere except in the drag racing and car show parts of Motorsports.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, mate, but again, unless there is a vast conspiracy to exclude people, maybe the reason women and other protected classes are "underrepresented" is natural individual preferences. Shall we establish a quota system here too? What purpose would that serve except to look "modern" and "inclusive"?
I don't want to be on a track with women who got there through a quota. They might be perfectly nice people but unless they are competent, they can be dangerous to themselves and the people around them. That is unacceptable. This is not sandbox, a consequence-free environment.
I don't want to have to sue to make the field, if I was a pro, because slower females (or others different from me) were included for the sake of "diversity". That is what you are talking about the second you decide something other than merit, commitment, skills and personal interest should decide who races or administers events.
The goal is RACING. That is why I am here. The goal is not to make people feel good all the time or exult because a winner is of a certain sex or other characteristic incidental to the fact they are a RACER. I am consistently slower than someone else on the track, but I love being there and I do all I can do to be safe and learn, learn, learn, improve, improve, improve. I leave my ego in the pits. As well as my race, creed, color, age and sex. I am not heroic or moral, either. I just think that is the attitude one should take onto the track. I can drive better, learn more, be safer with that mindset. That is the goal, the only goal here worth pursuing, IMHO.
At every lap day I have attended there are plenty of females working the corners and doing other stuff. Female EMT's. I expected (partly hoped, being single) to see more female drivers, but there are few in this "liberated" land called So Cal. So be it.
I agree that the Danica hype is over the top, even if she is a better role model than Britney or Madonna. But, look at who writes the stories and why. Non-racers, and many boosters of the "protected class" and "soundbite as intellectual thought/in-depth coverage" mentality. Of course their lens sees her sex as a big deal. I have been impressed by the few comments I have heard from her about the two Indy races and the fact she is much smaller than her competitors but can handle the strength and endurance requirements of those cars. I coudn't. Yee haw, Danica. God gave you some real guts and skills. Good on you, racer.
Janet Guthrie was great to listen to. She talked about the car and the race as a racer would, the good, the bad and the indifferent.
Racing is one of the last meritocracies around. Since lives are on the line, potentially, to treat it any other way is criminal and incorrect past redemption.
As Subie Gal said, racing is hard work, a huge commitment, dirty and smelly at times, risky, and filled with pressure. Lots of people, male or female, don't like that kind of job, much less "recreation".
I guess I am up to $0.04, now...
George
| Sean O'Gorman | 06-07-2006 01:42 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Sean just thrives on drama, that's all. He's one of the male drama queens that Tara mentioned. ;)[/QUOTE]
Finally, someone who knows me! I wouldn't say drama (more like attention whoring), but its all for entertainment and as far as I can tell no one ever gets hurt or really takes me that seriously anyway. :)
Thanks to whoever unbanned me, and sorry for the trouble I caused. I assumed I was being so over the top that it was obvious I wasn't being serious, but I guess that stuff doesn't come across very well in type on a forum mostly full of people who don't know who I am.
Finally, someone who knows me! I wouldn't say drama (more like attention whoring), but its all for entertainment and as far as I can tell no one ever gets hurt or really takes me that seriously anyway. :)
Thanks to whoever unbanned me, and sorry for the trouble I caused. I assumed I was being so over the top that it was obvious I wasn't being serious, but I guess that stuff doesn't come across very well in type on a forum mostly full of people who don't know who I am.
| ghschirtz | 06-07-2006 01:50 PM |
[QUOTE=10th Warrior]well, while we're reaching back, lets not forget Pat Moss either :)[/QUOTE]
Denise McCluggage, too.
Denise McCluggage, too.
| Sean O'Gorman | 06-07-2006 02:00 PM |
[QUOTE=ghschirtz]Racing is one of the last meritocracies around. Since lives are on the line, potentially, to treat it any other way is criminal and incorrect past redemption. [/QUOTE]
Racing, a meritocracy? HA!
Go walk around the paddock at a professional road race and look at how many rich punks are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of their parents money to race, without the slightest bit of talent. Want proof? Look at [URL=http://www.myspace.com/matt_fresh]Matthew Alhadeff[/URL] in Grand-Am. Click that link and tell me if you can still say racing is a meritocracy. Basically his dad pays for his racing to keep him out of trouble. Looks like it is going well. :rolleyes:
As far as professional racing is concerned, its all about the $$$, and I can't think of anything keeping rich girls from racing other than they just aren't interested in it. Maybe it is different in other countries such as the U.K. (where I understand Danica was treated poorly), but my experiences as a fan haven't really shown any negative bias towards women racers.
Racing, a meritocracy? HA!
Go walk around the paddock at a professional road race and look at how many rich punks are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of their parents money to race, without the slightest bit of talent. Want proof? Look at [URL=http://www.myspace.com/matt_fresh]Matthew Alhadeff[/URL] in Grand-Am. Click that link and tell me if you can still say racing is a meritocracy. Basically his dad pays for his racing to keep him out of trouble. Looks like it is going well. :rolleyes:
As far as professional racing is concerned, its all about the $$$, and I can't think of anything keeping rich girls from racing other than they just aren't interested in it. Maybe it is different in other countries such as the U.K. (where I understand Danica was treated poorly), but my experiences as a fan haven't really shown any negative bias towards women racers.
| MPME | 06-07-2006 02:16 PM |
[QUOTE=ghschirtz]
I don't want to have to sue to make the field, if I was a pro, because slower females (or others different from me) were included for the sake of "diversity". That is what you are talking about the second you decide something other than merit, commitment, skills and personal interest should decide who races or administers events.
George[/QUOTE]
Listening to the highly crafted and highly convicted opinions on how people of color and women should be treated, regarded, their state of equality, how they should advance themselves, and how they'd be accepted into one's world is always highly entertaining.
Rarely intelligible, reality-based, or accurate, but entertaining nonetheless.
Today kids, we've used big words like "inclusive," "protected people," "liberated," "diversity," and "underrepresented."
Those are all words that 'overrepresented" people often like to use to demonstrate their keen sense of equality, and abidance to the wonders of the merit-centric world they grew up in.
Sadly kids, such big words also show us that the users of these words often have little or no understanding of what it's like to grow up in a race, society, or culture where merit-based opportunities and equality isn't the same as theirs.
Yes kids, sorry to tell you this, but the world isn't equal for everyone.
I don't want to have to sue to make the field, if I was a pro, because slower females (or others different from me) were included for the sake of "diversity". That is what you are talking about the second you decide something other than merit, commitment, skills and personal interest should decide who races or administers events.
George[/QUOTE]
Listening to the highly crafted and highly convicted opinions on how people of color and women should be treated, regarded, their state of equality, how they should advance themselves, and how they'd be accepted into one's world is always highly entertaining.
Rarely intelligible, reality-based, or accurate, but entertaining nonetheless.
Today kids, we've used big words like "inclusive," "protected people," "liberated," "diversity," and "underrepresented."
Those are all words that 'overrepresented" people often like to use to demonstrate their keen sense of equality, and abidance to the wonders of the merit-centric world they grew up in.
Sadly kids, such big words also show us that the users of these words often have little or no understanding of what it's like to grow up in a race, society, or culture where merit-based opportunities and equality isn't the same as theirs.
Yes kids, sorry to tell you this, but the world isn't equal for everyone.
| Kitsune | 06-07-2006 02:17 PM |
Meritocracy.
n., pl. -cies.
1. A system in which advancement is based on individual ability or achievement.
2.
1. A group of leaders or officeholders selected on the basis of individual ability or achievement.
2. Leadership by such a group.
Heh, I had to look that word up lol.
But yeah, seriously since when was racing based more on personal ability then money? Especially rally for that matter.
Though I suppose you could count "ability to make money and promote" as personal ability. But, motorsports is'nt and never has been like other professional sports that you can just be [I]good at the physical act of the sport[/I] and get ahead.
n., pl. -cies.
1. A system in which advancement is based on individual ability or achievement.
2.
1. A group of leaders or officeholders selected on the basis of individual ability or achievement.
2. Leadership by such a group.
Heh, I had to look that word up lol.
But yeah, seriously since when was racing based more on personal ability then money? Especially rally for that matter.
Though I suppose you could count "ability to make money and promote" as personal ability. But, motorsports is'nt and never has been like other professional sports that you can just be [I]good at the physical act of the sport[/I] and get ahead.
| zzyzx | 06-07-2006 02:27 PM |
[QUOTE=Sean O'Gorman]As far as professional racing is concerned, its all about the $$$[/QUOTE]
12345
I about spit up my cookies when I saw the "meritocricy" comment.
12345
I about spit up my cookies when I saw the "meritocricy" comment.
| Kitsune | 06-07-2006 02:33 PM |
It might have been more so directed at the "affirmative action" sort of thing not holding much sway in motorsports.
| BROKENWRX | 06-07-2006 02:33 PM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]12345
I about spit up my cookies when I saw the "meritocricy" comment.[/QUOTE]
Well I fell of my chair. :p That post is up there.
I about spit up my cookies when I saw the "meritocricy" comment.[/QUOTE]
Well I fell of my chair. :p That post is up there.
| rain_racer | 06-07-2006 02:45 PM |
<Ali G>
Do you fink a woman can do any job?
I be too afraid she would be fretting 'bout her period or checkin' her make-up or somefing.
</Ali G>
Do you fink a woman can do any job?
I be too afraid she would be fretting 'bout her period or checkin' her make-up or somefing.
</Ali G>
| makofoto | 06-07-2006 02:53 PM |
I know guys that Fret about things to the detriment of racing their cars. I know gals that will glare at you, if not much worse if you distract them before their run ...
| rupertberr | 06-07-2006 03:32 PM |
Cindi Lux just won at Miller in a T-1 Viper,
beating her team mate Scotty White:
[url]http://www.cindilux.com/content/view/674/92/[/url]
beating her team mate Scotty White:
[url]http://www.cindilux.com/content/view/674/92/[/url]
| PA04STI | 06-07-2006 03:41 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Bah... it was an Audi.... they were dominant anyways. :lol:[/QUOTE]
True you could have put a trained monkey in that Audi & it would have done good :disco:
I just hope like everything everything else that teh big wigs don't mix sex with racing.
If I see Diana Patrick in Playboy on a car it will be sweet, but racing shouldn't be sexy its my guy bonding time for me cause my girlfriend doesn't understand it or wants to. Although it would be cool to have a girl that was into racing as much as I am and I try to get my girlfriend into it but think its a losing cause.
Don't get me wrong I am NOT saying women don't belong in racing cause I think alot of them do & they would beat my arse at racing, but I just hope they don't make racing sexy cause it shouldn't be....Pretty much Paris Hilton better not get into racing or I'm going to stab my eyes out.
And congrats to all those women that race and are good at it you got my props cause it isn't easy!!!!!! :banana:
True you could have put a trained monkey in that Audi & it would have done good :disco:
I just hope like everything everything else that teh big wigs don't mix sex with racing.
If I see Diana Patrick in Playboy on a car it will be sweet, but racing shouldn't be sexy its my guy bonding time for me cause my girlfriend doesn't understand it or wants to. Although it would be cool to have a girl that was into racing as much as I am and I try to get my girlfriend into it but think its a losing cause.
Don't get me wrong I am NOT saying women don't belong in racing cause I think alot of them do & they would beat my arse at racing, but I just hope they don't make racing sexy cause it shouldn't be....Pretty much Paris Hilton better not get into racing or I'm going to stab my eyes out.
And congrats to all those women that race and are good at it you got my props cause it isn't easy!!!!!! :banana:
| leecea | 06-07-2006 04:51 PM |
Edited to remove comments... I've given up :eek:
| ghschirtz | 06-07-2006 05:38 PM |
Okay: Meritocracy is the word I used. Glad your cookies stayed where they are.
Of course, the saying "nothing beats cubic money" comes from racing. And of course there are people with lots of money going faster than people without lots of money and perhaps more skill. There are always going to be people succeeding at something they otherwise wouldn't if their choice of grandparents was not so wise. Similarly, some people will rise from the dirt.
And I am 55, white, college and MBA, (small) business owner, one of those CEO capitalist types. Also hetero, able-bodied and male. Now, I have been called a racist for not promoting an unqualified person (he lost his case), and been spat on for being American (in Iran). I also have found people of color to invest a little time and effort in, so that a former secretary is now a CPA. She did the work, I just showed her some stuff that gave her confidence and piqued her interest.
No I don't know, or pretend to know, how life really is for people who are discriminated against every day of their lives. I think it fair to say I have seen enough corporate politics and other silliness, the substitution for connections and personal agendas for what I thought was right, that I have an inkling. And my former secretary became a CPA on the merit of her work. Didn't matter she was female or black. She had the brains and drive to make it.
I have a lot of faith in brains, drive, persistence and integrity, the last three being probably more important. I have no faith in self-esteem for the sake of it, rights claimed without obligations honored, social promotion and high school kids expecting to get a job with no math or reading skills. What do you have faith in?
My point in labeling racing a meritocracy is the absence of "affirmative action" in determining who wins. You take what you can gather up in money, time, skill and do your best. I have spent very little to mod my Sub for track days (not all CEO's make millions), and it doesn't bother me to be slower than someone who has tricked his car out whether he has big money or just decided to spend it that way. I look at my times and how I drove. I am wanting to go faster, so I will put more into the car, but it is my daily driver so it will always be a compromise. Can't afford a transporter.
Philosophically, I figure there will always be someone a little faster than I am, even if they are not at the same track that day. There will always be someone a little smarter than me. A little stronger. A little kinder. A little meaner. A little richer, tougher, a better sailor, skier, rock climber, mechanic. Each one of those people has something I can learn, if nothing else what NOT to do. Like sometimes I should shut up, listen instead of talk. That mindset makes it easier to swallow my ego when I encounter that better person. Envy is a waste of time and effort.
Guy and I were at Willow Springs, he in his old BMW with about half my horsepower, call it mostly equal elsewhere. We ran about equal times, trading the lead, if you will. I thought I should have been a lot faster, but I wasn't. He could drive better. We had a great time, joking about it. I ended the day a little faster, helped by his coaching on how to drive. He was happy I was learning, I was happy he could get such speed from his car. Maybe meritocracy is the wrong word for it, but "affirmative action" INMHO, could not deliver that experience.
Congrats to all who race successfully, however they define that word.
George
Of course, the saying "nothing beats cubic money" comes from racing. And of course there are people with lots of money going faster than people without lots of money and perhaps more skill. There are always going to be people succeeding at something they otherwise wouldn't if their choice of grandparents was not so wise. Similarly, some people will rise from the dirt.
And I am 55, white, college and MBA, (small) business owner, one of those CEO capitalist types. Also hetero, able-bodied and male. Now, I have been called a racist for not promoting an unqualified person (he lost his case), and been spat on for being American (in Iran). I also have found people of color to invest a little time and effort in, so that a former secretary is now a CPA. She did the work, I just showed her some stuff that gave her confidence and piqued her interest.
No I don't know, or pretend to know, how life really is for people who are discriminated against every day of their lives. I think it fair to say I have seen enough corporate politics and other silliness, the substitution for connections and personal agendas for what I thought was right, that I have an inkling. And my former secretary became a CPA on the merit of her work. Didn't matter she was female or black. She had the brains and drive to make it.
I have a lot of faith in brains, drive, persistence and integrity, the last three being probably more important. I have no faith in self-esteem for the sake of it, rights claimed without obligations honored, social promotion and high school kids expecting to get a job with no math or reading skills. What do you have faith in?
My point in labeling racing a meritocracy is the absence of "affirmative action" in determining who wins. You take what you can gather up in money, time, skill and do your best. I have spent very little to mod my Sub for track days (not all CEO's make millions), and it doesn't bother me to be slower than someone who has tricked his car out whether he has big money or just decided to spend it that way. I look at my times and how I drove. I am wanting to go faster, so I will put more into the car, but it is my daily driver so it will always be a compromise. Can't afford a transporter.
Philosophically, I figure there will always be someone a little faster than I am, even if they are not at the same track that day. There will always be someone a little smarter than me. A little stronger. A little kinder. A little meaner. A little richer, tougher, a better sailor, skier, rock climber, mechanic. Each one of those people has something I can learn, if nothing else what NOT to do. Like sometimes I should shut up, listen instead of talk. That mindset makes it easier to swallow my ego when I encounter that better person. Envy is a waste of time and effort.
Guy and I were at Willow Springs, he in his old BMW with about half my horsepower, call it mostly equal elsewhere. We ran about equal times, trading the lead, if you will. I thought I should have been a lot faster, but I wasn't. He could drive better. We had a great time, joking about it. I ended the day a little faster, helped by his coaching on how to drive. He was happy I was learning, I was happy he could get such speed from his car. Maybe meritocracy is the wrong word for it, but "affirmative action" INMHO, could not deliver that experience.
Congrats to all who race successfully, however they define that word.
George
| leecea | 06-07-2006 06:57 PM |
ghschirtz,
That's a great post and one which I agree with in large part. The only comment I'd like to add is around the quote...
[QUOTE]She had the brains and drive to make it.
[/QUOTE]
Some people are strong enough to make it no matter what is thrown at them, and some will never do anything useful whatever opportunities they have. Most people are in the middle. What they feel can be accomplished is shaped by their environment, especially as they are growing up. That, IMHO, is the strength of something like an affirmative action plan, and I don't just mean quotas, I mean actively encouraging people and ideas that are under represented in any given field. Breaking trail is always harder than following an established path.
That's a great post and one which I agree with in large part. The only comment I'd like to add is around the quote...
[QUOTE]She had the brains and drive to make it.
[/QUOTE]
Some people are strong enough to make it no matter what is thrown at them, and some will never do anything useful whatever opportunities they have. Most people are in the middle. What they feel can be accomplished is shaped by their environment, especially as they are growing up. That, IMHO, is the strength of something like an affirmative action plan, and I don't just mean quotas, I mean actively encouraging people and ideas that are under represented in any given field. Breaking trail is always harder than following an established path.
| ghschirtz | 06-07-2006 08:17 PM |
[QUOTE=leecea]ghschirtz,
That's a great post and one which I agree with in large part. The only comment I'd like to add is around the quote...
Some people are strong enough to make it no matter what is thrown at them, and some will never do anything useful whatever opportunities they have. Most people are in the middle. What they feel can be accomplished is shaped by their environment, especially as they are growing up. That, IMHO, is the strength of something like an affirmative action plan, and I don't just mean quotas, I mean actively encouraging people and ideas that are under represented in any given field. Breaking trail is always harder than following an established path.[/QUOTE]
leecea,
I have to agree with you in priniciple, and I think many actions under AA programs did just that, opened some eyes, gave some encouragement and a person bloomed, when it might not have happened before. Maybe it was the only way, and maybe now some parts of the system might be obsolete. I don't know.
From my seat, that is what management of any company or organization should take as their primary job: encourage, stimulate, challenge and find the ones who can get the overall goals achieved in the most successful way, so your customer is more likely to succeed, and his customer, etc. This is an attitudinal orientation. Some people seem to have it, some can be inspired to it, others don't really care and some will never get it ever, whatever you do to them.
Some of my bosses have had it, some haven't. I learned it mostly from my dad, but I think I was ready for the attitude to form. I can't see the downside of running a company that way, but others do. Ken Lay had a different agenda, and some others. I think a lot of CEO's do try, however, more than popular media wants to admit.
Wisodm is where you find it, not from a spot on the org chart or a degree on the wall. I still joke about my MBA experience, in that there were some really smart people there I wouldn't hire to clean a bathroom. They could never get it right. Excellent students, but getting a job done was beyond them.
A company is a system, and there is usually room for those who want an 8 hour day and those who have to be sent home for working too long. Both have to appreciate and collaborate with each other. Compensation should be fair between the company and what the employee creates in value. Integrity and calling a spade a shovel is really important. And all of this should happen without regard to race, creed, religion or sex.
Ah yes, a perfect world...it ain't and never will be. We can try, have to. Some days it works like a charm. Those are good days. Seeing a secretary become a CPA is one of my finest memories of being a manager, even if all I did was sort of put a match into the fire that lady had waiting inside her. I am so glad I was there.
Take care,
George
That's a great post and one which I agree with in large part. The only comment I'd like to add is around the quote...
Some people are strong enough to make it no matter what is thrown at them, and some will never do anything useful whatever opportunities they have. Most people are in the middle. What they feel can be accomplished is shaped by their environment, especially as they are growing up. That, IMHO, is the strength of something like an affirmative action plan, and I don't just mean quotas, I mean actively encouraging people and ideas that are under represented in any given field. Breaking trail is always harder than following an established path.[/QUOTE]
leecea,
I have to agree with you in priniciple, and I think many actions under AA programs did just that, opened some eyes, gave some encouragement and a person bloomed, when it might not have happened before. Maybe it was the only way, and maybe now some parts of the system might be obsolete. I don't know.
From my seat, that is what management of any company or organization should take as their primary job: encourage, stimulate, challenge and find the ones who can get the overall goals achieved in the most successful way, so your customer is more likely to succeed, and his customer, etc. This is an attitudinal orientation. Some people seem to have it, some can be inspired to it, others don't really care and some will never get it ever, whatever you do to them.
Some of my bosses have had it, some haven't. I learned it mostly from my dad, but I think I was ready for the attitude to form. I can't see the downside of running a company that way, but others do. Ken Lay had a different agenda, and some others. I think a lot of CEO's do try, however, more than popular media wants to admit.
Wisodm is where you find it, not from a spot on the org chart or a degree on the wall. I still joke about my MBA experience, in that there were some really smart people there I wouldn't hire to clean a bathroom. They could never get it right. Excellent students, but getting a job done was beyond them.
A company is a system, and there is usually room for those who want an 8 hour day and those who have to be sent home for working too long. Both have to appreciate and collaborate with each other. Compensation should be fair between the company and what the employee creates in value. Integrity and calling a spade a shovel is really important. And all of this should happen without regard to race, creed, religion or sex.
Ah yes, a perfect world...it ain't and never will be. We can try, have to. Some days it works like a charm. Those are good days. Seeing a secretary become a CPA is one of my finest memories of being a manager, even if all I did was sort of put a match into the fire that lady had waiting inside her. I am so glad I was there.
Take care,
George
| makofoto | 06-07-2006 10:34 PM |
Women Racer web site:
[url]http://www.racerchicks.com/racerchick_101/index.html[/url]
[url]http://www.racerchicks.com/racerchick_101/index.html[/url]
| KC | 06-08-2006 07:40 AM |
Oh.. and who runs the Evolution Auto-x School? :) Jean Kinser-Dana
| CamaroFS34 | 06-08-2006 08:08 AM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]Women Racer web site:
[url]http://www.racerchicks.com/racerchick_101/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
I posted that and [url=http://www.thundervalleyracing]Thunder Valley's racing site[/url] a couple of pages ago. ;)
Karen
[url]http://www.racerchicks.com/racerchick_101/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
I posted that and [url=http://www.thundervalleyracing]Thunder Valley's racing site[/url] a couple of pages ago. ;)
Karen
| RallyCat66 | 06-08-2006 09:02 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]Bah... it was an Audi.... they were dominant anyways. :lol:[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go knocking Michele's driving abilities there Grasshopper. :D
Lets see, an Audi driver didn't win the 1982 driver's championship. Walter Rohrl won that in an Opel Ascona 400 (so much for the Audi domination theory for that year :rolleyes: ).
Michele finished a close second - winning three events (Acropolis, Brazil, & Portugal) along the way (San Remo 1981 was her only other "WRC" victory). BTW - if you ever see the Quattro A1 that Buffum occassionally brings to display at events, that's the car that Michele won Portugal with.
Oh, and the "other" Audi drivers that she beat out in the championship that year. Little known drivers by the names of Hannu Mikkola and Stig Blomqvist.
[QUOTE=PA04STI]True you could have put a trained monkey in that Audi & it would have done good :disco:[/QUOTE]
If those two are "trained monkeys" then sign me up! :devil:
Tim
I wouldn't go knocking Michele's driving abilities there Grasshopper. :D
Lets see, an Audi driver didn't win the 1982 driver's championship. Walter Rohrl won that in an Opel Ascona 400 (so much for the Audi domination theory for that year :rolleyes: ).
Michele finished a close second - winning three events (Acropolis, Brazil, & Portugal) along the way (San Remo 1981 was her only other "WRC" victory). BTW - if you ever see the Quattro A1 that Buffum occassionally brings to display at events, that's the car that Michele won Portugal with.
Oh, and the "other" Audi drivers that she beat out in the championship that year. Little known drivers by the names of Hannu Mikkola and Stig Blomqvist.
[QUOTE=PA04STI]True you could have put a trained monkey in that Audi & it would have done good :disco:[/QUOTE]
If those two are "trained monkeys" then sign me up! :devil:
Tim
| bjorn240 | 06-08-2006 11:21 AM |
There you have it.
- Christian
Will co-drive for trained monkeys.
- Christian
Will co-drive for trained monkeys.
| KC | 06-08-2006 11:22 AM |
Tim... sarcasm. It does a body good! :lol:
| 10th Warrior | 06-08-2006 01:12 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]There you have it.
- Christian
Will co-drive for trained monkeys.[/QUOTE]
I thought the co-drivers [I]were[/I] the trained monkeys. :disco: So, shouldn't it be, "Will co-drive for :banana: ."?
- Christian
Will co-drive for trained monkeys.[/QUOTE]
I thought the co-drivers [I]were[/I] the trained monkeys. :disco: So, shouldn't it be, "Will co-drive for :banana: ."?
| RallyCat66 | 06-08-2006 02:00 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Tim... sarcasm. It does a body good! :lol:[/QUOTE]
Sarcasm? Never heard of it. :rolleyes:
Tim
Sarcasm? Never heard of it. :rolleyes:
Tim
| pio!pio! | 06-09-2006 09:05 PM |
another one I found in British F3 - Keiko Ihara..former race queen turned racer
| Lafora | 06-10-2006 02:45 PM |
Keiko is absolutely horrible in BF3. watched a ocuple of races this season and she's worse than Taku :D
| forced4 | 06-11-2006 04:29 PM |
Liz Halliday - ALMS LMP2 & 24Hr Le Mans later this week
[img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/forced4/GetDbImage.jpg[/img]
:banana:
[img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/forced4/GetDbImage.jpg[/img]
:banana:
| turboICE | 06-11-2006 11:33 PM |
I was racing at Beaver Run this weekend and went over and watched some of the kids' kart races. I bet more than 25% of them were girls, I am sure over time these will increase the ranks of women in racing. Although I am not entirely sure that kart moms are any more stable about their child's sports than moms of select soccer players.
| CirrusWRX | 06-12-2006 04:53 PM |
Just one thing to point out as I've heard from my s/o and other females on occasion about "the attitude" during motorsport-related events. Fortunately, we're usually hanging out with very cool and chill people, 90% of whom are male and great guys.
But she says once out of the protective bubble of friends, things can get downright nasty. She rightly points out that in order to be female and attempt to participate in motorsports, there are a number of hurdles to overcome. Deny it if you wish but, first and foremost, a female is already starting out WAY outnumbered - that makes you feel like an outcast.
1. If you see a female who looks interested in trying autox or is at the first HPDE, for the love of GOD, put the leg humping away for 10 minutes and treat her like a human being first and a piece of ass eleventybillionth. Just like the meatheads who try to pick up chicks at the gym, they're not going to races to meet single guys. Treat them like you would treat your friends and make them feel like they're part of the group.
2. Females are somehow expected to either know everything or are as dumb as bricks and have to be shown the way like little lost puppies- there is apparently no "in between." Riiiiiiiight. I believe they get very discouraged when treated this way. Many women I know are more than capable of picking things up just like any other human being, and tend to be very good at listening (unlike many guys...) so show them, but don't "do it for them" or patronize them by "here, let me do it since you obviously didn't understand me in .3 seconds... They want to learn, they need to be taught, just like all of us who had to learn how to change a brake pad or swap a set of wheels or tweak an alignment. Be there to help, to show, but don't be patronizing and take over the situation- you wouldn't do that to a guy, would you?
3. A guy who is a bit full of himself or is the slightest bit arrogant is just a typical racing guy, but hey, who doesn't have a little attitude, right? Attitude makes a guy a guy. Yet, if a woman even begins to act in that matter, she is automatically classified "the bitch" and if she ever attempts to assert herself, she will immediately face harshness for "acting like a bitch." If said woman EVER does something wrong, she will carry that scar forever, yet, if it's a guy, it was probably the car's fault, or the crew cheif, or the weather, or the lack of sleep the night before. If a tire explodes, it was ultimately the fault of the woman, and if she complains about a blown tire, since it was probably her fault, ergo, she must be a total bitch.
I don't think anybody reading this forum would disagree with these 3 items (that came off the top of my head, I know there are plenty more) and I am willing to bet the people reading this forum DO act in the matter that is most appropriate. But we all know "the other guys" out there who will only see the new girl at the autox as a potential date, or when asked, "how do I lower the pressure in my tires?" they act like the computer guy in SNL: MOVE!
There is no rule that says women should be involved in everything men are involved in and vice versa, but the inherit barriers that exist will continue to disuade women from participating unless people take an active approach to include them. No, not every woman out there wants to be racing, but many who are on the fence need a little shove to take the plunge and join in the fun.
But she says once out of the protective bubble of friends, things can get downright nasty. She rightly points out that in order to be female and attempt to participate in motorsports, there are a number of hurdles to overcome. Deny it if you wish but, first and foremost, a female is already starting out WAY outnumbered - that makes you feel like an outcast.
1. If you see a female who looks interested in trying autox or is at the first HPDE, for the love of GOD, put the leg humping away for 10 minutes and treat her like a human being first and a piece of ass eleventybillionth. Just like the meatheads who try to pick up chicks at the gym, they're not going to races to meet single guys. Treat them like you would treat your friends and make them feel like they're part of the group.
2. Females are somehow expected to either know everything or are as dumb as bricks and have to be shown the way like little lost puppies- there is apparently no "in between." Riiiiiiiight. I believe they get very discouraged when treated this way. Many women I know are more than capable of picking things up just like any other human being, and tend to be very good at listening (unlike many guys...) so show them, but don't "do it for them" or patronize them by "here, let me do it since you obviously didn't understand me in .3 seconds... They want to learn, they need to be taught, just like all of us who had to learn how to change a brake pad or swap a set of wheels or tweak an alignment. Be there to help, to show, but don't be patronizing and take over the situation- you wouldn't do that to a guy, would you?
3. A guy who is a bit full of himself or is the slightest bit arrogant is just a typical racing guy, but hey, who doesn't have a little attitude, right? Attitude makes a guy a guy. Yet, if a woman even begins to act in that matter, she is automatically classified "the bitch" and if she ever attempts to assert herself, she will immediately face harshness for "acting like a bitch." If said woman EVER does something wrong, she will carry that scar forever, yet, if it's a guy, it was probably the car's fault, or the crew cheif, or the weather, or the lack of sleep the night before. If a tire explodes, it was ultimately the fault of the woman, and if she complains about a blown tire, since it was probably her fault, ergo, she must be a total bitch.
I don't think anybody reading this forum would disagree with these 3 items (that came off the top of my head, I know there are plenty more) and I am willing to bet the people reading this forum DO act in the matter that is most appropriate. But we all know "the other guys" out there who will only see the new girl at the autox as a potential date, or when asked, "how do I lower the pressure in my tires?" they act like the computer guy in SNL: MOVE!
There is no rule that says women should be involved in everything men are involved in and vice versa, but the inherit barriers that exist will continue to disuade women from participating unless people take an active approach to include them. No, not every woman out there wants to be racing, but many who are on the fence need a little shove to take the plunge and join in the fun.
| turboICE | 06-12-2006 05:28 PM |
As long as I only have to put it away for 10 minutes, Kyle then I am on board with ya! ;)
But what is keeping you from the track?
But what is keeping you from the track?
| ghschirtz | 06-12-2006 05:35 PM |
Hey, CirrusWRX,
Very constructive points! Good post. I could see how a little attitude could go a long way to turning off ladies just on the edge of jumping into the pool. You summed that part up well.
Cheers,
George
Very constructive points! Good post. I could see how a little attitude could go a long way to turning off ladies just on the edge of jumping into the pool. You summed that part up well.
Cheers,
George
| Imprezivblue | 06-12-2006 05:52 PM |
[QUOTE=CirrusWRX]Just one thing to point out as I've heard from my s/o and other females on occasion about "the attitude" during motorsport-related events. Fortunately, we're usually hanging out with very cool and chill people, 90% of whom are male and great guys.
But she says once out of the protective bubble of friends, things can get downright nasty. She rightly points out that in order to be female and attempt to participate in motorsports, there are a number of hurdles to overcome. Deny it if you wish but, first and foremost, a female is already starting out WAY outnumbered - that makes you feel like an outcast.
1. If you see a female who looks interested in trying autox or is at the first HPDE, for the love of GOD, put the leg humping away for 10 minutes and treat her like a human being first and a piece of ass eleventybillionth. Just like the meatheads who try to pick up chicks at the gym, they're not going to races to meet single guys. Treat them like you would treat your friends and make them feel like they're part of the group.
2. Females are somehow expected to either know everything or are as dumb as bricks and have to be shown the way like little lost puppies- there is apparently no "in between." Riiiiiiiight. I believe they get very discouraged when treated this way. Many women I know are more than capable of picking things up just like any other human being, and tend to be very good at listening (unlike many guys...) so show them, but don't "do it for them" or patronize them by "here, let me do it since you obviously didn't understand me in .3 seconds... They want to learn, they need to be taught, just like all of us who had to learn how to change a brake pad or swap a set of wheels or tweak an alignment. Be there to help, to show, but don't be patronizing and take over the situation- you wouldn't do that to a guy, would you?
3. A guy who is a bit full of himself or is the slightest bit arrogant is just a typical racing guy, but hey, who doesn't have a little attitude, right? Attitude makes a guy a guy. Yet, if a woman even begins to act in that matter, she is automatically classified "the bitch" and if she ever attempts to assert herself, she will immediately face harshness for "acting like a bitch." If said woman EVER does something wrong, she will carry that scar forever, yet, if it's a guy, it was probably the car's fault, or the crew cheif, or the weather, or the lack of sleep the night before. If a tire explodes, it was ultimately the fault of the woman, and if she complains about a blown tire, since it was probably her fault, ergo, she must be a total bitch.
I don't think anybody reading this forum would disagree with these 3 items (that came off the top of my head, I know there are plenty more) and I am willing to bet the people reading this forum DO act in the matter that is most appropriate. But we all know "the other guys" out there who will only see the new girl at the autox as a potential date, or when asked, "how do I lower the pressure in my tires?" they act like the computer guy in SNL: MOVE!
There is no rule that says women should be involved in everything men are involved in and vice versa, but the inherit barriers that exist will continue to disuade women from participating unless people take an active approach to include them. No, not every woman out there wants to be racing, but many who are on the fence need a little shove to take the plunge and join in the fun.[/QUOTE]
All are completely valid points and stuff I've been through. It's really bad especially if a S/O didn't bring you into motorsports.
It's also really hard because rumors fly anytime you talk with someone for 10 minutes, nevermind codrive with someone, or if someone codrives with you. It's like an invitation for the "oh she's sleeping with so-in-so" rumor mill to spin.
A guy at the local autox asked me last weekend where my "pit crew" was, because I was changing tires myself. :rolleyes: Oh wait, girls are suppose to be in the kitchen. . .
For the most part everyone's been extremely nice. I've never had a better group of friends in my life and my college friends miss me because i'm never around to party on the weekends because i'm autoxing. . .
But she says once out of the protective bubble of friends, things can get downright nasty. She rightly points out that in order to be female and attempt to participate in motorsports, there are a number of hurdles to overcome. Deny it if you wish but, first and foremost, a female is already starting out WAY outnumbered - that makes you feel like an outcast.
1. If you see a female who looks interested in trying autox or is at the first HPDE, for the love of GOD, put the leg humping away for 10 minutes and treat her like a human being first and a piece of ass eleventybillionth. Just like the meatheads who try to pick up chicks at the gym, they're not going to races to meet single guys. Treat them like you would treat your friends and make them feel like they're part of the group.
2. Females are somehow expected to either know everything or are as dumb as bricks and have to be shown the way like little lost puppies- there is apparently no "in between." Riiiiiiiight. I believe they get very discouraged when treated this way. Many women I know are more than capable of picking things up just like any other human being, and tend to be very good at listening (unlike many guys...) so show them, but don't "do it for them" or patronize them by "here, let me do it since you obviously didn't understand me in .3 seconds... They want to learn, they need to be taught, just like all of us who had to learn how to change a brake pad or swap a set of wheels or tweak an alignment. Be there to help, to show, but don't be patronizing and take over the situation- you wouldn't do that to a guy, would you?
3. A guy who is a bit full of himself or is the slightest bit arrogant is just a typical racing guy, but hey, who doesn't have a little attitude, right? Attitude makes a guy a guy. Yet, if a woman even begins to act in that matter, she is automatically classified "the bitch" and if she ever attempts to assert herself, she will immediately face harshness for "acting like a bitch." If said woman EVER does something wrong, she will carry that scar forever, yet, if it's a guy, it was probably the car's fault, or the crew cheif, or the weather, or the lack of sleep the night before. If a tire explodes, it was ultimately the fault of the woman, and if she complains about a blown tire, since it was probably her fault, ergo, she must be a total bitch.
I don't think anybody reading this forum would disagree with these 3 items (that came off the top of my head, I know there are plenty more) and I am willing to bet the people reading this forum DO act in the matter that is most appropriate. But we all know "the other guys" out there who will only see the new girl at the autox as a potential date, or when asked, "how do I lower the pressure in my tires?" they act like the computer guy in SNL: MOVE!
There is no rule that says women should be involved in everything men are involved in and vice versa, but the inherit barriers that exist will continue to disuade women from participating unless people take an active approach to include them. No, not every woman out there wants to be racing, but many who are on the fence need a little shove to take the plunge and join in the fun.[/QUOTE]
All are completely valid points and stuff I've been through. It's really bad especially if a S/O didn't bring you into motorsports.
It's also really hard because rumors fly anytime you talk with someone for 10 minutes, nevermind codrive with someone, or if someone codrives with you. It's like an invitation for the "oh she's sleeping with so-in-so" rumor mill to spin.
A guy at the local autox asked me last weekend where my "pit crew" was, because I was changing tires myself. :rolleyes: Oh wait, girls are suppose to be in the kitchen. . .
For the most part everyone's been extremely nice. I've never had a better group of friends in my life and my college friends miss me because i'm never around to party on the weekends because i'm autoxing. . .
| jcroy66 | 06-13-2006 08:21 AM |
[QUOTE=Imprezivblue]A guy at the local autox asked me last weekend where my "pit crew" was, because I was changing tires myself. :rolleyes: Oh wait, girls are suppose to be in the kitchen. . .[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.wowway.com/%7Epcroy8059/closeup3.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.wowway.com/%7Epcroy8059/closeup3.jpg[/img]
| KC | 06-13-2006 08:43 AM |
[QUOTE=Imprezivblue]Oh wait, girls are suppose to be in the kitchen. . .[/QUOTE]AMEN! :devil: :p
| CamaroFS34 | 06-13-2006 08:57 AM |
[img]http://www.xecu.net/kiirenza/picture/mk1_focus.jpg[/img]
:D :lol:
:D :lol:
| KC | 06-13-2006 09:03 AM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34][img]http://www.xecu.net/kiirenza/picture/mk1_focus.jpg[/img]
:D :lol:[/QUOTE]
I read that you got the green machine working again. :)
:D :lol:[/QUOTE]
I read that you got the green machine working again. :)
| Imprezivblue | 06-13-2006 11:45 AM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66][img]http://www.wowway.com/%7Epcroy8059/closeup3.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Hahah that's what I thought of when I made that comment. . . I knew you'd post it ;)
Hahah that's what I thought of when I made that comment. . . I knew you'd post it ;)
| jcroy66 | 06-13-2006 11:52 AM |
Yeah, I figured that was what you were thinking of. :) And of course, I couldn't pass up an opportunity to further the UDA cause. ;)
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét