| Mako | 05-08-2004 11:23 PM |
Will there be protests over the Special Stage jump at Rim?
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I'm sure anyone who attended ther 12:15 Special Stage on Saturday noticed that the inside line of the jump (in front of the bleachers) was the line that caused numerous cars to DNF, starting with the very first pair, the green Mitsu driven by the Irishmen.
During the stage at least three or four other cars were DNF'ed and others damaged, while the outside line was smooth.
(To be fair some of the biggest air was from a K5 Blazer and a pre-runner style truck on that line, both nosed hard on landing but kept going.)
The problem appeared to be a kicker lip on that line, while the outside was smooth.
Anyway I was talking to the owner of the 89 Porsche 911 who launched off the inside lip and ruined his undercarriage on landing (his description) and he was pissed, he said it wasn't the same lip as Friday night and that he heard all kinds of people were damaged on that line. He was talking about starting some kind of protest letter to the Rim organizers. Wonder if anything will happen with that...and their response?
During the stage at least three or four other cars were DNF'ed and others damaged, while the outside line was smooth.
(To be fair some of the biggest air was from a K5 Blazer and a pre-runner style truck on that line, both nosed hard on landing but kept going.)
The problem appeared to be a kicker lip on that line, while the outside was smooth.
Anyway I was talking to the owner of the 89 Porsche 911 who launched off the inside lip and ruined his undercarriage on landing (his description) and he was pissed, he said it wasn't the same lip as Friday night and that he heard all kinds of people were damaged on that line. He was talking about starting some kind of protest letter to the Rim organizers. Wonder if anything will happen with that...and their response?
| niftybee | 05-09-2004 12:30 AM |
Now that you mention it, I didn't realize that all of the cars that nosed on the landing were in the same lane.
It definitely sounds like the jump may not have been symmetric. I thought about that every time the announcer mentioned that so-and-so construction company built the track. How much experience could they have building rally tracks? I suppose they could do other motorsport tracks, so it's not impossible, but if they were just some heavy machinery construction company, they wouldn't necessarily know exactly what they were doing.
It was definitely much more exciting at the 12:15 session than the 4:45 session after either all the drivers took the jump with caution or the jump was flattened. I felt pretty bad that so many cars were damaged on that jump though.
BTW, wouldn't the lane next to the spectator stands be the outside lane?
It definitely sounds like the jump may not have been symmetric. I thought about that every time the announcer mentioned that so-and-so construction company built the track. How much experience could they have building rally tracks? I suppose they could do other motorsport tracks, so it's not impossible, but if they were just some heavy machinery construction company, they wouldn't necessarily know exactly what they were doing.
It was definitely much more exciting at the 12:15 session than the 4:45 session after either all the drivers took the jump with caution or the jump was flattened. I felt pretty bad that so many cars were damaged on that jump though.
BTW, wouldn't the lane next to the spectator stands be the outside lane?
| Mark Avery | 05-09-2004 01:45 AM |
The left lane, from the drivers POV, was the offending jump. It was also the OUTSIDE lane in the first corner. All of the jump related DNFs were in that lane. I bet Seamus Burke was pissed!
The design of the track was stupid anyway. They put in a jump to give the spectators something to "wow" at, but they put it so close to the 1st corner that anyone who really attacked the jump wouldn't have enough braking room to make the corner. By Stage 11 everyone was tiptoeing over the jump. So much for the "wow."
The design of the track was stupid anyway. They put in a jump to give the spectators something to "wow" at, but they put it so close to the 1st corner that anyone who really attacked the jump wouldn't have enough braking room to make the corner. By Stage 11 everyone was tiptoeing over the jump. So much for the "wow."
| TV3WRX | 05-09-2004 11:20 AM |
I stopped in on my way back from Vegas to see the 4:45 spectator stage, and I have to say that it was pretty disappointing. We could not figure out why all the drivers were hitting the brakes before the jump....now I understand. The person I was with was asking me "why is this so slow? Is it always this slow?". The whole track was very low-speed; it looks to me like the lanes were 1/2 as wide as they needed to be. There was no room at all to get the car set for turns, so drivers just tiptoed through them.
The spectator stage at the Holiday Inn Palmdale in 2002 was far better. Lots of room. Hopefully the organizers will be able to improve on this new site for future years. I do still think the way they went about the schedule (having several spectator stages) is the right way to go, but it needs to be way more interesting, exciting.
Other comments: Hats off to Verdier; that guy is FAST. 5th overall in a PGT car...wow. Stage times were really incredible compared to N and Open cars. Also, it impressed me that Pastrana's stage times on day 2 were all faster than Ramana's, except one. The kid is learning fast.
The spectator stage at the Holiday Inn Palmdale in 2002 was far better. Lots of room. Hopefully the organizers will be able to improve on this new site for future years. I do still think the way they went about the schedule (having several spectator stages) is the right way to go, but it needs to be way more interesting, exciting.
Other comments: Hats off to Verdier; that guy is FAST. 5th overall in a PGT car...wow. Stage times were really incredible compared to N and Open cars. Also, it impressed me that Pastrana's stage times on day 2 were all faster than Ramana's, except one. The kid is learning fast.
| Mako | 05-09-2004 02:54 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mark Avery [/i]
[B]The left lane, from the drivers POV, was the offending jump. It was also the OUTSIDE lane in the first corner. All of the jump related DNFs were in that lane. I bet Seamus Burke was pissed!
The design of the track was stupid anyway. They put in a jump to give the spectators something to "wow" at, but they put it so close to the 1st corner that anyone who really attacked the jump wouldn't have enough braking room to make the corner. By Stage 11 everyone was tiptoeing over the jump. So much for the "wow." [/B][/QUOTE]
You're correct on how to describe the lane; thanks for clarifying it.
You're also totally correct about how close the jump was to the first turn. Many people took the jump fast and then careened desperately to make the corner. The banzai Blazer, who probably flew 120 feet off that jump, if you recall he did go completely off the course as he tried to brake and make it back into the lane.
I'll say this about the track, at least there was _racing_ to watch. Remember last year at that soccer field? The start was LAME...putt-putt up that driveway and out of there. Woohoo. This was much, much better.
It also seemed spectator attendance was down? I know they charged this year (though I understand that, I think the venue was good! and it required rental money) but overall the stands on Saturday morning were fairly sparse, IMHO.
[B]The left lane, from the drivers POV, was the offending jump. It was also the OUTSIDE lane in the first corner. All of the jump related DNFs were in that lane. I bet Seamus Burke was pissed!
The design of the track was stupid anyway. They put in a jump to give the spectators something to "wow" at, but they put it so close to the 1st corner that anyone who really attacked the jump wouldn't have enough braking room to make the corner. By Stage 11 everyone was tiptoeing over the jump. So much for the "wow." [/B][/QUOTE]
You're correct on how to describe the lane; thanks for clarifying it.
You're also totally correct about how close the jump was to the first turn. Many people took the jump fast and then careened desperately to make the corner. The banzai Blazer, who probably flew 120 feet off that jump, if you recall he did go completely off the course as he tried to brake and make it back into the lane.
I'll say this about the track, at least there was _racing_ to watch. Remember last year at that soccer field? The start was LAME...putt-putt up that driveway and out of there. Woohoo. This was much, much better.
It also seemed spectator attendance was down? I know they charged this year (though I understand that, I think the venue was good! and it required rental money) but overall the stands on Saturday morning were fairly sparse, IMHO.
| ANZAC_1915 | 05-09-2004 09:26 PM |
On the first runs, dust really seemed to be an issue for the cars in the left hand (outside) lane, if the car on the inside line hit the corner first.
The Super Specials at WRC events feature a cross-over so both drivers get to drive the same pieces of road (in a slightly different order).
The truth is that the drivers don't really see them as competitive stages (except perhaps bragging rights...) and you can only really lose an event on a super special (as Seamus Burke found out), and not win it by gaining a bunch of time.
So some of the stuffs (ignoring the track issues) were from people probably just pushing too hard.
For the 4:45 session they had indeed graded the top off the jump.
Glenn
The Super Specials at WRC events feature a cross-over so both drivers get to drive the same pieces of road (in a slightly different order).
The truth is that the drivers don't really see them as competitive stages (except perhaps bragging rights...) and you can only really lose an event on a super special (as Seamus Burke found out), and not win it by gaining a bunch of time.
So some of the stuffs (ignoring the track issues) were from people probably just pushing too hard.
For the 4:45 session they had indeed graded the top off the jump.
Glenn
| cabenth | 05-09-2004 09:56 PM |
Rim is known as a car breaker event. But it seems as if this is largely because of the organizers rather than just a function of the terrain.
For instance, the field that held the SS stages was rather large, yet the room given to the cars was very small, and there was about 1 foot between the lanes. This seems like they were HOPING to cause cars to collide or high center. They had plenty of room to widen the race lanes, and even put more space between them.
Another example is the jump. Friday night, it was a simple fall away type jump, it didn't THROW your car into the air, it just fell away faster than gravity. They saw that and modified it Saturday morning.
Then they overwatered a couple of spots....
Even the well sponsored competitors have to show results or they'll loose the sponsorship, and many of the drivers out there spend pretty much every spare penny on their cars. Then they come to rim, where the rally seems to be designed to break their cars. I think the drivers deserve more respect and consideration.
Having said all that, I'm just a spectator and these are my observations and opions.
For instance, the field that held the SS stages was rather large, yet the room given to the cars was very small, and there was about 1 foot between the lanes. This seems like they were HOPING to cause cars to collide or high center. They had plenty of room to widen the race lanes, and even put more space between them.
Another example is the jump. Friday night, it was a simple fall away type jump, it didn't THROW your car into the air, it just fell away faster than gravity. They saw that and modified it Saturday morning.
Then they overwatered a couple of spots....
Even the well sponsored competitors have to show results or they'll loose the sponsorship, and many of the drivers out there spend pretty much every spare penny on their cars. Then they come to rim, where the rally seems to be designed to break their cars. I think the drivers deserve more respect and consideration.
Having said all that, I'm just a spectator and these are my observations and opions.
| MarkA | 05-09-2004 11:03 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mako [/i]
[B]
It also seemed spectator attendance was down? I know they charged this year (though I understand that, I think the venue was good! and it required rental money) but overall the stands on Saturday morning were fairly sparse, IMHO. [/B][/QUOTE]
I couldn�t come back on Saturday but there were at most 300 people in the stands for the super-special on Friday and the vast, vast majority of them were crew and/or the vendors. In fact, I only saw and talked to one other �paying joe� fan the whole time I was there Friday.
[B]
It also seemed spectator attendance was down? I know they charged this year (though I understand that, I think the venue was good! and it required rental money) but overall the stands on Saturday morning were fairly sparse, IMHO. [/B][/QUOTE]
I couldn�t come back on Saturday but there were at most 300 people in the stands for the super-special on Friday and the vast, vast majority of them were crew and/or the vendors. In fact, I only saw and talked to one other �paying joe� fan the whole time I was there Friday.
| jonesi | 05-09-2004 11:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cabenth [/i]
[B]Rim is known as a car breaker event. But it seems as if this is largely because of the organizers rather than just a function of the terrain.
For instance, the field that held the SS stages was rather large, yet the room given to the cars was very small, and there was about 1 foot between the lanes. This seems like they were HOPING to cause cars to collide or high center. They had plenty of room to widen the race lanes, and even put more space between them.
Another example is the jump. Friday night, it was a simple fall away type jump, it didn't THROW your car into the air, it just fell away faster than gravity. They saw that and modified it Saturday morning.
Then they overwatered a couple of spots....
Even the well sponsored competitors have to show results or they'll loose the sponsorship, and many of the drivers out there spend pretty much every spare penny on their cars. Then they come to rim, where the rally seems to be designed to break their cars. I think the drivers deserve more respect and consideration.
Having said all that, I'm just a spectator and these are my observations and opions. [/B][/QUOTE]
1. 'car breaker' - A lot of the breaking is due to water bars on the roads. The water bars are going to remain, we either use the roads with them or don't have the roads to use. The committee can only repair the worst of them.
2. 'field that held the SS stages was rather large' - They went to the extent of the field that they could. There may have been better ways to do the inner loops and have a little more space between lanes. I'm sure they will consider it next year. (Would you like to volunteer to design & build next years course? ;-)
3. 'jump' (on SS) - The only change between Friday night and Sat morning was 36 rally cars ran over it in each lane and normal grooming. They did modify it before the second running on Sat. Did anyone get video of Burke's jump? My impression was he rotated in the air and came down on the right side first, which means he hit the jump wrong. I don't think it's possible to design a jump that's totally safe from damage if its hit wrong.
4. 'overwatered' - I heard that from a few people.
5. 'designed to break cars' - I've been on the committee for two years, and worked four years. I can assure you that that's NOT the attitude of anyone on the committee.
Bill Jonesi
[B]Rim is known as a car breaker event. But it seems as if this is largely because of the organizers rather than just a function of the terrain.
For instance, the field that held the SS stages was rather large, yet the room given to the cars was very small, and there was about 1 foot between the lanes. This seems like they were HOPING to cause cars to collide or high center. They had plenty of room to widen the race lanes, and even put more space between them.
Another example is the jump. Friday night, it was a simple fall away type jump, it didn't THROW your car into the air, it just fell away faster than gravity. They saw that and modified it Saturday morning.
Then they overwatered a couple of spots....
Even the well sponsored competitors have to show results or they'll loose the sponsorship, and many of the drivers out there spend pretty much every spare penny on their cars. Then they come to rim, where the rally seems to be designed to break their cars. I think the drivers deserve more respect and consideration.
Having said all that, I'm just a spectator and these are my observations and opions. [/B][/QUOTE]
1. 'car breaker' - A lot of the breaking is due to water bars on the roads. The water bars are going to remain, we either use the roads with them or don't have the roads to use. The committee can only repair the worst of them.
2. 'field that held the SS stages was rather large' - They went to the extent of the field that they could. There may have been better ways to do the inner loops and have a little more space between lanes. I'm sure they will consider it next year. (Would you like to volunteer to design & build next years course? ;-)
3. 'jump' (on SS) - The only change between Friday night and Sat morning was 36 rally cars ran over it in each lane and normal grooming. They did modify it before the second running on Sat. Did anyone get video of Burke's jump? My impression was he rotated in the air and came down on the right side first, which means he hit the jump wrong. I don't think it's possible to design a jump that's totally safe from damage if its hit wrong.
4. 'overwatered' - I heard that from a few people.
5. 'designed to break cars' - I've been on the committee for two years, and worked four years. I can assure you that that's NOT the attitude of anyone on the committee.
Bill Jonesi
| CoiloverKid | 05-10-2004 12:40 AM |
i had no problems with the jump, high-2nd/low-3rd was a-ok. everyone was just being wusses :lol:
| cabenth | 05-10-2004 12:42 AM |
Is this normal?
89 cars entered the Rim of the World Pro Rally
40 cars DID NOT FINISH
Thats 45%
There were 5 that have N/A next to them, did those not start? That would make 35 of 84.
I got these numbers by counting, based on the info on the Rim of the World site.
89 cars entered the Rim of the World Pro Rally
40 cars DID NOT FINISH
Thats 45%
There were 5 that have N/A next to them, did those not start? That would make 35 of 84.
I got these numbers by counting, based on the info on the Rim of the World site.
| Coati | 05-10-2004 12:59 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CoiloverKid [/i]
[B]i had no problems with the jump, high-2nd/low-3rd was a-ok. everyone was just being wusses :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Shhhhhhhhh:lol:
That Porsche nosed in each time it went airborne -- I don't know if it made a difference which side they were on. I would have thought a rear-engined car would have been less prone.:confused:
I watched all of the SS stages, and was in front of the jump for all of them. I don't agree with some of the above statements. There didn't seem to be that much difficulty (on the outside lane) for cars that didn't take the jump too fast. I think it comes down to driver judgement, and driver error.
Sure the Blazer had an issue, but they blew through that jump faster and farther than anyone else, so what do you expect?:lol:
The Jetta's jump was nearly as impressive.:eek: :lol: Verdier's was kinda hairy because the car was rotating along its longitudinal axis in the air more than any of the other cars (is his codriver a lot heavier or something? :lol: ), but he saved it nicely.:cool:
[B]i had no problems with the jump, high-2nd/low-3rd was a-ok. everyone was just being wusses :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Shhhhhhhhh:lol:
That Porsche nosed in each time it went airborne -- I don't know if it made a difference which side they were on. I would have thought a rear-engined car would have been less prone.:confused:
I watched all of the SS stages, and was in front of the jump for all of them. I don't agree with some of the above statements. There didn't seem to be that much difficulty (on the outside lane) for cars that didn't take the jump too fast. I think it comes down to driver judgement, and driver error.
Sure the Blazer had an issue, but they blew through that jump faster and farther than anyone else, so what do you expect?:lol:
The Jetta's jump was nearly as impressive.:eek: :lol: Verdier's was kinda hairy because the car was rotating along its longitudinal axis in the air more than any of the other cars (is his codriver a lot heavier or something? :lol: ), but he saved it nicely.:cool:
| jonesi | 05-10-2004 01:04 AM |
>Is this normal?
89 cars entered the Rim of the World Pro Rally
40 cars DID NOT FINISH
Thats 45%
There were 5 that have N/A next to them, did those not start? That would make 35 of 84.<
There were not 89 cars entered, they are limited by the Forest Service to 80. There were 75.5 cars that completed their entry process, 72 started, 40 were there at the finish (55%). Some of the cars are not really entered in Rim ProRally they are only entered in Rim 1 (fri) and/or Rim 2 (sat) ClubRallies. A lot of cars drop out over little things that have almost nothing to do with the nature of the course. A finish percentage of over 75% would be unusual (First overall was lost due to a $.50 hose clamp.)
89 cars entered the Rim of the World Pro Rally
40 cars DID NOT FINISH
Thats 45%
There were 5 that have N/A next to them, did those not start? That would make 35 of 84.<
There were not 89 cars entered, they are limited by the Forest Service to 80. There were 75.5 cars that completed their entry process, 72 started, 40 were there at the finish (55%). Some of the cars are not really entered in Rim ProRally they are only entered in Rim 1 (fri) and/or Rim 2 (sat) ClubRallies. A lot of cars drop out over little things that have almost nothing to do with the nature of the course. A finish percentage of over 75% would be unusual (First overall was lost due to a $.50 hose clamp.)
| cabenth | 05-10-2004 01:11 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jonesi [/i]
[B]There were 75.5 cars that completed their entry process, [/B][/QUOTE]
I got to ask
how does half a car finish the entry process? And which one was it?
[B]There were 75.5 cars that completed their entry process, [/B][/QUOTE]
I got to ask
how does half a car finish the entry process? And which one was it?
| Coati | 05-10-2004 01:12 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cabenth [/i]
[B]I got to ask
how does half a car finish the entry process? And which one was it? [/B][/QUOTE]
One car entered for one day only?
[B]I got to ask
how does half a car finish the entry process? And which one was it? [/B][/QUOTE]
One car entered for one day only?
| jonesi | 05-10-2004 01:16 AM |
Dave Coleman Sat only.
| HighWayDrifter | 05-10-2004 02:15 AM |
they need to bring back the jump about 20-30 feet to give more room for landing as well as bring hte speeds down across the jump. Other then that and the rather non intelligent water truck driver hosing down the camera guys more then the track it was a good event. I liked the super stage alot it was a great idea, granted not perfectly executed but fun none the less. I know alot of the people drivingt the SS didnt like it as much as the spectators did (i think the re shaping of hte jump 3 times didnt help any)
Hope next year the bring the jump back but dont put it so damn close to a large sweeping turn, as well as keeping the water pit full of water.
Hope next year the bring the jump back but dont put it so damn close to a large sweeping turn, as well as keeping the water pit full of water.
| HighWayDrifter | 05-10-2004 02:18 AM |
oh and you could tell that some people just didnt know how to launch off a ramp like that (the brake tapping at base of the jump does nothing but shift the weight to the front while going up and over hence the noise dives people where doing.
| ANZAC_1915 | 05-10-2004 10:10 AM |
Also for the record, issues like this aren't the subject of protests, but either items the competitors fill out on their CER (competitor evaluation report) and/or write the Performance Rally Board about.
Yeah, the crowds were disappointing --- it felt to me like there were less people than last year.
Glenn
Yeah, the crowds were disappointing --- it felt to me like there were less people than last year.
Glenn
| mjones | 05-10-2004 02:04 PM |
By all accounts that I've heard so far from other comitee members is that the crowd was at least as big as last year and most likely bigger, but that the HUGE venue made it seem low.
The Satuday night party was definately well attended, there is absolutely no way that we could have accomodated that many people at the Holiday Inn.
Mike
Director of Communications
The Satuday night party was definately well attended, there is absolutely no way that we could have accomodated that many people at the Holiday Inn.
Mike
Director of Communications
| Sergeant_V | 05-10-2004 02:29 PM |
We had a great time at Rim! Choice and luck of the draw put us in the outside lane on every one of the Super Special Stages. The jump was a matter of concern to all and most of us spent at least a few minutes watching the other teams taking the course to identify the hazards and slippy areas before jumping into our own cars.
Our primary goal during the Super Special was to stay ahead of the car next to us. The dust kicked up by the lead car makes navigating through the narrow route a real challenge.
We didn't make any spectacular jumps over the "Lancaster Leap", but the car stayed together (with much coaxing and excellent work from the service crew) through the entire event. The course was narrow and that made things a little difficult after the straights and into the turns. We definitely had to break early to get through the corners.
As Jonesi mentioned, the real car-breaking features at Rim are the water bars. This was our first year at the event and even though I'd heard all of the stories and warnings I wasn't prepared for how rough the roads were! We were proud to have finished and to have done well.
The event was superbly organized and executed. We will definitely do it again!
Abel Villesca
Co-driver, Car #423
Our primary goal during the Super Special was to stay ahead of the car next to us. The dust kicked up by the lead car makes navigating through the narrow route a real challenge.
We didn't make any spectacular jumps over the "Lancaster Leap", but the car stayed together (with much coaxing and excellent work from the service crew) through the entire event. The course was narrow and that made things a little difficult after the straights and into the turns. We definitely had to break early to get through the corners.
As Jonesi mentioned, the real car-breaking features at Rim are the water bars. This was our first year at the event and even though I'd heard all of the stories and warnings I wasn't prepared for how rough the roads were! We were proud to have finished and to have done well.
The event was superbly organized and executed. We will definitely do it again!
Abel Villesca
Co-driver, Car #423
| ricochet | 05-10-2004 02:31 PM |
[img]http://www.drivingsports.com/gallery/data/3018/2rim_taxijump.jpg[/img]
Miraculously, #324 landed on all four wheels :D
Ryan Douthit
Driving Sports: The Road & Rally Magazine
[url]http://www.drivingsports.com[/url]
Miraculously, #324 landed on all four wheels :D
Ryan Douthit
Driving Sports: The Road & Rally Magazine
[url]http://www.drivingsports.com[/url]
| Mako | 05-10-2004 03:10 PM |
Great pic!
Also note how sparse the bleachers are....this is the 12:15 SS crowd...
Also note how sparse the bleachers are....this is the 12:15 SS crowd...
| Coati | 05-10-2004 03:14 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ricochet [/i]
[B][img]http://www.drivingsports.com/gallery/data/3018/2rim_taxijump.jpg[/img]
Miraculously, #324 landed on all four wheels :D
Ryan Douthit
Driving Sports: The Road & Rally Magazine
[url]http://www.drivingsports.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Are you kidding? That car was seriously b0rKed after nosing-in.:(
[IMG]http://images.earlyapex.net/rally/DSC00107.JPG[/IMG]
You can't see it in that pic, but the front strut bar was S-shaped from the impact...
[B][img]http://www.drivingsports.com/gallery/data/3018/2rim_taxijump.jpg[/img]
Miraculously, #324 landed on all four wheels :D
Ryan Douthit
Driving Sports: The Road & Rally Magazine
[url]http://www.drivingsports.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Are you kidding? That car was seriously b0rKed after nosing-in.:(
[IMG]http://images.earlyapex.net/rally/DSC00107.JPG[/IMG]
You can't see it in that pic, but the front strut bar was S-shaped from the impact...
| Chaste Automotive | 05-10-2004 03:42 PM |
Everything is a calculated risk in rallying and some chose to charge that jump and others chose to take the more careful approach. Seamus went way to fast hit the most vulnerable part of an EVO the front good bye intercooler and radiator. The superspecial stage was a new thing and I think that they really ried and like most things they will improve. Thanks to everyone that came out.
| ricochet | 05-10-2004 04:03 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Coati [/i]
[B]Are you kidding? That car was seriously b0rKed after nosing-in.:(
You can't see it in that pic, but the front strut bar was S-shaped from the impact... [/B][/QUOTE]
All I claimed was that it landed on all four wheels...not that it did so without any damage... :eek:
[B]Are you kidding? That car was seriously b0rKed after nosing-in.:(
You can't see it in that pic, but the front strut bar was S-shaped from the impact... [/B][/QUOTE]
All I claimed was that it landed on all four wheels...not that it did so without any damage... :eek:
| Coati | 05-10-2004 04:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ricochet [/i]
[B]All I claimed was that it landed on all four wheels...not that it did so without any damage... :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, it did limp off the track on all four wheels under its own dying "power" after the impact, so you were technically and ultimately correct.:lol:
[B]All I claimed was that it landed on all four wheels...not that it did so without any damage... :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, it did limp off the track on all four wheels under its own dying "power" after the impact, so you were technically and ultimately correct.:lol:
| ursine | 05-10-2004 04:55 PM |
I was the taxi next to him. All I remember seeing was the underside of his car and saying OMFG!!! I saw him land and knew he was done. After the stage I went and checked with him and his motor was sitting about 2 inches higher on the passanger side. That really sucks, I think the company that made the course is to blame even though it doesnt really matter now.
| mjones | 05-10-2004 05:02 PM |
Since a few others brought up the Laughlin SuperSpecial and had generally good things to say about it; I can say for certain that the plan was to have the same crew make the SuperSpecial at Rim.
I don't know for certain if that is who did the work or not, but it was definately 'Plan A'
Mike
I don't know for certain if that is who did the work or not, but it was definately 'Plan A'
Mike
| bzzbee2 | 05-10-2004 05:19 PM |
let me say something on the issue of water.
there were many complaining about dust (if you read this post you will see that the drivers didnt like it either because they were sometimes blinded). one of those complaining was the CHP.... that is why on the 3rd SS stage after about the 12th set of cars was started i was instructed to warn the drivers that there will be a lot more water out there than previsouly. Yes this made for a much slicker course. but were any of you at last years rim??? I know i hated the dust, as there was always an area at the start or just in front of it that was bone dry... so i couldnt see the cars launch more than 25-30 feet.. after that i was blind. would i have wanted more water by the start... yes, but probably not as much as they put down... the problem with the whole water thing is that it drys so fast on the track in that wind and heat... that if you just put enough down to wet the ground... after 2 cars cross it it was all gone. if you noticed we had 1 water truck there friday night, and on sat we had 3...
if this track were to be farther from town/hwy.. there probably would have been no problems with dust, other than spectating and the trailing driver not being able to see much. I also think that by the time of the SS4 came around the straight away was in prime condition. it was moiste enough to handle the dust, but is wasnt quite like the snot on the back side of the course.
there were many complaining about dust (if you read this post you will see that the drivers didnt like it either because they were sometimes blinded). one of those complaining was the CHP.... that is why on the 3rd SS stage after about the 12th set of cars was started i was instructed to warn the drivers that there will be a lot more water out there than previsouly. Yes this made for a much slicker course. but were any of you at last years rim??? I know i hated the dust, as there was always an area at the start or just in front of it that was bone dry... so i couldnt see the cars launch more than 25-30 feet.. after that i was blind. would i have wanted more water by the start... yes, but probably not as much as they put down... the problem with the whole water thing is that it drys so fast on the track in that wind and heat... that if you just put enough down to wet the ground... after 2 cars cross it it was all gone. if you noticed we had 1 water truck there friday night, and on sat we had 3...
if this track were to be farther from town/hwy.. there probably would have been no problems with dust, other than spectating and the trailing driver not being able to see much. I also think that by the time of the SS4 came around the straight away was in prime condition. it was moiste enough to handle the dust, but is wasnt quite like the snot on the back side of the course.
| johnfelstead | 05-10-2004 05:59 PM |
Damn shame to see rally cars destroyed like that. Competitors are in a no win situation, they have to push to get a good stage time but are also under presure to "perform", especially so on spectator stages. This isnt X games supercross, it's rallying, there is no need for such extreme jumps, learning to take that kind of jump takes time, to have that in the presure cooker of a Super Special stage is unfair on competitors and is going to lead to disasters.
Unlike the SS of WRC events, no one gets to reccee the stage on Pro Rally, so extra care has to be taken to protect the crews and make it safe in such a high presure environment. No one wants to be thought of as a wuss for backing off before a jump, so when the jump is too extreme that will happen, you can guarantee it.
I am sure the organisors will be gutted that cars died like that and will have taken that onboard.
Unlike the SS of WRC events, no one gets to reccee the stage on Pro Rally, so extra care has to be taken to protect the crews and make it safe in such a high presure environment. No one wants to be thought of as a wuss for backing off before a jump, so when the jump is too extreme that will happen, you can guarantee it.
I am sure the organisors will be gutted that cars died like that and will have taken that onboard.
| ANZAC_1915 | 05-10-2004 06:06 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]Damn shame to see rally cars destroyed like that. Competitors are in a no win situation, they have to push to get a good stage time but are also under presure to "perform", especially so on spectator stages. [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think so, on the 4th SSS run, Pat was happy to let Leon run ahead, knowing he had the event sown up.
You can only make a few seconds at most up on a SSS (unless your competitor stuffs it), but you can easily DNF.
Definitely a stage to run fast but very clean.
Pat actually spun on his first run through the SSS but got going pretty quickly.
Glenn
[B]Damn shame to see rally cars destroyed like that. Competitors are in a no win situation, they have to push to get a good stage time but are also under presure to "perform", especially so on spectator stages. [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think so, on the 4th SSS run, Pat was happy to let Leon run ahead, knowing he had the event sown up.
You can only make a few seconds at most up on a SSS (unless your competitor stuffs it), but you can easily DNF.
Definitely a stage to run fast but very clean.
Pat actually spun on his first run through the SSS but got going pretty quickly.
Glenn
| johnfelstead | 05-10-2004 06:13 PM |
i am sure you know what i mean Glenn, especially so on the first stage of a rally. Your mind set changes markedly after 2 days of hard driving with the knowledge that if you make a silly mistake you've just lost the rally. At the start of a rally you are so full of adrenaline you are far less cautious and far more likely to be pumped up by the ocasion.
| ANZAC_1915 | 05-10-2004 06:19 PM |
Right -- I don't think every driver gets that and on the first two runs most drivers were pushing very hard.
A good time for the co-driver to say "let's dial it back on this stage and make sure we finish".
Glenn
PS I believe the competitors were allowed to walk the SS stage before their first run.
A good time for the co-driver to say "let's dial it back on this stage and make sure we finish".
Glenn
PS I believe the competitors were allowed to walk the SS stage before their first run.
| johnfelstead | 05-10-2004 06:30 PM |
This is what makes the sport such a dificult one to suceed at, so many small but important things to learn. Quite often you have to get it wrong before you get it right, that goes for organisors as much as competitors.
| Coati | 05-10-2004 06:35 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]i am sure you know what i mean Glenn, especially so on the first stage of a rally. Your mind set changes markedly after 2 days of hard driving with the knowledge that if you make a silly mistake you've just lost the rally. At the start of a rally you are so full of adrenaline you are far less cautious and far more likely to be pumped up by the ocasion. [/B][/QUOTE]
Nevertheless, the vast bulk of the rally-ending auguring occured on subsequent jumps, [i]not[/i] their initial one on Friday night.
[B]i am sure you know what i mean Glenn, especially so on the first stage of a rally. Your mind set changes markedly after 2 days of hard driving with the knowledge that if you make a silly mistake you've just lost the rally. At the start of a rally you are so full of adrenaline you are far less cautious and far more likely to be pumped up by the ocasion. [/B][/QUOTE]
Nevertheless, the vast bulk of the rally-ending auguring occured on subsequent jumps, [i]not[/i] their initial one on Friday night.
| bjorn240 | 05-10-2004 06:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Glenn Wallace[/i]
[B] A good time for the co-driver to say "let's dial it back on this stage and make sure we finish".
Glenn
PS I believe the competitors were allowed to walk the SS stage before their first run. [/B][/QUOTE]
It'd be a remiss co-driver who didn't say something like that, wouldn't it. They're still not likely to listen, but...
But to set the record straight, competitors were allowed to walk the course at any time it was not running.
- Christian
[B] A good time for the co-driver to say "let's dial it back on this stage and make sure we finish".
Glenn
PS I believe the competitors were allowed to walk the SS stage before their first run. [/B][/QUOTE]
It'd be a remiss co-driver who didn't say something like that, wouldn't it. They're still not likely to listen, but...
But to set the record straight, competitors were allowed to walk the course at any time it was not running.
- Christian
| johnfelstead | 05-10-2004 06:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Coati [/i]
[B]Nevertheless, the vast bulk of the rally-ending auguring occured on subsequent jumps, [i]not[/i] their initial one on Friday night. [/B][/QUOTE]
I would hope so too.
[B]Nevertheless, the vast bulk of the rally-ending auguring occured on subsequent jumps, [i]not[/i] their initial one on Friday night. [/B][/QUOTE]
I would hope so too.
| yosemitemtb | 05-10-2004 06:52 PM |
As someone who has built a lot of jumps (not for cars, for snowboarders and skiers, I was a ski area groomer for ten years) it was very obvious to me that the two lanes had very different hits. I missed the early stage on Saturday but caught the other two times through it, so I missed seeing most of the problems cars were having, by the time I saw them hitting it, most were pretty conservative. What I saw was the right lane having a slightly steeper face with a little more kick. That would tend to toss the cars up a little more making the landing a little more exciting, if you build a snowboard hit like that, it rotates you back but cars are much different and it doesn't surprise me they were landing hard on the nose. If I had built the course, I would have definetly gotten down off my machine and looked at it from the ground level, it's not easy getting something like that right if you look at it from a high vantage point. Of course, if the jump had been symmetrical, it could easily have been a car breaker for both lanes. Just my two cents worth. The VW running with the hood up was well worth the admission price!
| Porsche914boxer4 | 05-10-2004 06:55 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jonesi [/i]
[B(First overall was lost due to a $.50 hose clamp.) [/B][/QUOTE]
No, actually, this was what lost first overall.
[IMG]http://www.pdxsports.com/downloads/burke_landing.jpg[/IMG]
[B(First overall was lost due to a $.50 hose clamp.) [/B][/QUOTE]
No, actually, this was what lost first overall.
[IMG]http://www.pdxsports.com/downloads/burke_landing.jpg[/IMG]
| HighWayDrifter | 05-10-2004 08:07 PM |
was wondering how long it would take before a pic of that would show up.
Anyone get video of the thule car doing hte SS with the hood up?
Anyone get video of the thule car doing hte SS with the hood up?
| Coati | 05-10-2004 08:11 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by HighWayDrifter [/i]
[B]was wondering how long it would take before a pic of that would show up.
Anyone get video of the thule car doing hte SS with the hood up? [/B][/QUOTE]
Just between the Thule Jetta's sick jump, and the later hood run, the money spent to get into the SS area was more than worth it.:cool: :lol:
[B]was wondering how long it would take before a pic of that would show up.
Anyone get video of the thule car doing hte SS with the hood up? [/B][/QUOTE]
Just between the Thule Jetta's sick jump, and the later hood run, the money spent to get into the SS area was more than worth it.:cool: :lol:
| HighWayDrifter | 05-10-2004 08:17 PM |
ya the thule guys did an awesome job, the jump was executed perfectly, the driving with the hood up was awesome as well! wnated to go shake their hands but when i got back to their area they were still in the stands :(
| greg donovan | 05-10-2004 11:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bjorn240 [/i]
[B]It'd be a remiss co-driver who didn't say something like that, wouldn't it. They're still not likely to listen, but...
But to set the record straight, competitors were allowed to walk the course at any time it was not running.
- Christian [/B][/QUOTE]
it looks like you are getting travis to listen! congrats on a great run!!
[B]It'd be a remiss co-driver who didn't say something like that, wouldn't it. They're still not likely to listen, but...
But to set the record straight, competitors were allowed to walk the course at any time it was not running.
- Christian [/B][/QUOTE]
it looks like you are getting travis to listen! congrats on a great run!!
| ANZAC_1915 | 05-11-2004 12:48 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by greg donovan [/i]
[B]it looks like you are getting travis to listen! congrats on a great run!! [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm very impressed -- Travis really has some potential.
Christian, I felt a bit sad seeing you drive away while they lined up the top 3 cars on the podium. I feel like you guys deserved to be up there too.
:banana:
[B]it looks like you are getting travis to listen! congrats on a great run!! [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm very impressed -- Travis really has some potential.
Christian, I felt a bit sad seeing you drive away while they lined up the top 3 cars on the podium. I feel like you guys deserved to be up there too.
:banana:
| WRXMaster | 05-11-2004 12:57 AM |
I thought the superspecial was alot of fun! The jump really wasnt that bad? I hit it at full speed everytime ............ but I have a low HP car .................... the surface at the start wasnt muddy like on friday ...... I think the Openclass cars had more grip to get more speed for that jump?
| yosemitemtb | 05-11-2004 01:13 AM |
[IMG]http://home.inreach.com/jerryk/photos/Jetta.JPG[/IMG]
This was as he was leaving, that's my wifes arm:D
This was as he was leaving, that's my wifes arm:D
| ursine | 05-11-2004 02:10 PM |
I agree, I had a great time in the SSS, I hope that becomes a regular thing because I know my crew loved it and they would be more willing to come help me if it was like that all the time. :)
| Subie Gal | 05-11-2004 02:40 PM |
personally...
before the rally even started i was very uncomfortable with the idea of this "special stage"
after seeing the layout - i knew cars would DNF
this was a very very dangerous set up and i hope the organizers reconsider when setting something of this nature up in for future events.... from my point of view here are the major faults with the special stage:
*lanes were way way way too narrow
*there was no real division between lanes (very dangerous!)
*jump was too arched
*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET
(clogged my radiator causing overheating, let alone no grip)
Many cars crossed over into the other lane.... including me.
this is just damn dangerous - i feared for myself and my competitor once this occurred... and it was this fear that drove me to try to get back into my lane asap - at which point i high centered.... my fault for caring i guess... but it was just too damn dangerous at that point. all i can say is it's a good thing i was well ahead of Chris when this occurred or it would have been very very ugly.
Also...
REAL special stages (wrc) have a cross over so that the car in the outside lane doesnt get shafted :rolleyes: if you drew the outside lane (like i did 3 times) you either got completely dusted out.. or played catch up trying to stay with the competitor on the shorter, inside lane....
All in all i see what the organizers were trying to do, and I understand where they were coming from, but it was NOT safe, NOT very well designed and could have been much better for everyone involved with a better layout.
I feel horrible for those that DNF'd on that stage.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
#215 SCCA ProRally
before the rally even started i was very uncomfortable with the idea of this "special stage"
after seeing the layout - i knew cars would DNF
this was a very very dangerous set up and i hope the organizers reconsider when setting something of this nature up in for future events.... from my point of view here are the major faults with the special stage:
*lanes were way way way too narrow
*there was no real division between lanes (very dangerous!)
*jump was too arched
*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET
(clogged my radiator causing overheating, let alone no grip)
Many cars crossed over into the other lane.... including me.
this is just damn dangerous - i feared for myself and my competitor once this occurred... and it was this fear that drove me to try to get back into my lane asap - at which point i high centered.... my fault for caring i guess... but it was just too damn dangerous at that point. all i can say is it's a good thing i was well ahead of Chris when this occurred or it would have been very very ugly.
Also...
REAL special stages (wrc) have a cross over so that the car in the outside lane doesnt get shafted :rolleyes: if you drew the outside lane (like i did 3 times) you either got completely dusted out.. or played catch up trying to stay with the competitor on the shorter, inside lane....
All in all i see what the organizers were trying to do, and I understand where they were coming from, but it was NOT safe, NOT very well designed and could have been much better for everyone involved with a better layout.
I feel horrible for those that DNF'd on that stage.
Jamie
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
#215 SCCA ProRally
| AndyRoo | 05-11-2004 06:55 PM |
From the pictures, the cars looked like they were indeed very very close together and narrow, and this with no divider. I can't imagine that being a smart or safe idea.
edit: but a well excuted SS would be a very good thing to have at a rally, especially in the US (to draw in specatators).
edit: but a well excuted SS would be a very good thing to have at a rally, especially in the US (to draw in specatators).
| sube151 | 05-12-2004 01:19 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Subie Gal [/i]
[B]personally...
*lanes were way way way too narrow
*there was no real division between lanes (very dangerous!)
*jump was too arched
*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET
(clogged my radiator causing overheating, let alone no grip)
Many cars crossed over into the other lane.... including me.
this is just damn dangerous - i feared for myself and my competitor once this occurred... and it was this fear that drove me to try to get back into my lane asap - at which point i high centered.... my fault for caring i guess... but it was just too damn dangerous at that point. all i can say is it's a good thing i was well ahead of Chris when this occurred or it would have been very very ugly.
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
#215 SCCA ProRally [/B][/QUOTE]
I was almost creamed out at the back straight. Ralph Kosmides went over the birm directly towards my car. Luckily the over watered road also caused me to slide out of my lane and avoid the impact. :eek:
-Victor
#423 Club Rally
[B]personally...
*lanes were way way way too narrow
*there was no real division between lanes (very dangerous!)
*jump was too arched
*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET
(clogged my radiator causing overheating, let alone no grip)
Many cars crossed over into the other lane.... including me.
this is just damn dangerous - i feared for myself and my competitor once this occurred... and it was this fear that drove me to try to get back into my lane asap - at which point i high centered.... my fault for caring i guess... but it was just too damn dangerous at that point. all i can say is it's a good thing i was well ahead of Chris when this occurred or it would have been very very ugly.
[url]www.subiegal.com[/url]
#215 SCCA ProRally [/B][/QUOTE]
I was almost creamed out at the back straight. Ralph Kosmides went over the birm directly towards my car. Luckily the over watered road also caused me to slide out of my lane and avoid the impact. :eek:
-Victor
#423 Club Rally
| Jgrahn555 | 05-12-2004 10:53 AM |
[quote]*lanes were way way way too narrow[/quote]
I thought lane width was a great sized based off some of the roads we drove up on the mountain. They were no smaller then any rallycross we have in the NW.
[quote]*there was no real division between lanes (very dangerous!)[/quote]
The division between lanes was about as tall as that berm you and I hopped over down in reno. I will agree to this, it could have been better with haybales or tires to separate.
[quote]*jump was too arched[/quote]
This has it's various causes. The drivers hard braking right before the jump caused a small dip right before it. The first time, we didn't take it so well, the second time was perfect. The next two times we were in the right lane which was a jump, but not as "moto-crossy."
[quote]*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET[/quote]When the racing gets tough, the tought call it.... RALLY.
[quote](clogged my radiator causing overheating, let alone no grip)[/quote]gotta clean that out. We ran into the same problem, but caught it soon enough to take care of the issue.
[quote]Many cars crossed over into the other lane.... including me.[/quote]As did we, but i calmed down the driver and told him to let the other guys take it, it wasn't worth the heartache for 2 seconds.
[quote]REAL special stages (wrc) have a cross over so that the car in the outside lane doesnt get shafted if you drew the outside lane (like i did 3 times) you either got completely dusted out.. or played catch up trying to stay with the competitor on the shorter, inside lane....
[/quote]You'll notice that the outside lane is longer through the front straight, corner 1, and the back straight. Through the slalom it evened up, then through the center field the previous outside lane was on the inside with the shorter line. I feel the organizers did a very good job with what they had to work with.
[quote]I feel horrible for those that DNF'd on that stage.[/quote]Sure, I feel bad for 'em. But If they can't keep a cool head on stage, then they break things. When you and I were running super-hot down in reno, what happened? We crested smack down onto a rock. I didn't know how to at the time, but I should have been able to rein you back in and get you to drive more conservatively. We had plenty of lead at that point... I can now and thats just what I did. Maybe that's part of the reason why we came home with the G2 Pro win.
-Jason
I thought lane width was a great sized based off some of the roads we drove up on the mountain. They were no smaller then any rallycross we have in the NW.
[quote]*there was no real division between lanes (very dangerous!)[/quote]
The division between lanes was about as tall as that berm you and I hopped over down in reno. I will agree to this, it could have been better with haybales or tires to separate.
[quote]*jump was too arched[/quote]
This has it's various causes. The drivers hard braking right before the jump caused a small dip right before it. The first time, we didn't take it so well, the second time was perfect. The next two times we were in the right lane which was a jump, but not as "moto-crossy."
[quote]*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET[/quote]When the racing gets tough, the tought call it.... RALLY.
[quote](clogged my radiator causing overheating, let alone no grip)[/quote]gotta clean that out. We ran into the same problem, but caught it soon enough to take care of the issue.
[quote]Many cars crossed over into the other lane.... including me.[/quote]As did we, but i calmed down the driver and told him to let the other guys take it, it wasn't worth the heartache for 2 seconds.
[quote]REAL special stages (wrc) have a cross over so that the car in the outside lane doesnt get shafted if you drew the outside lane (like i did 3 times) you either got completely dusted out.. or played catch up trying to stay with the competitor on the shorter, inside lane....
[/quote]You'll notice that the outside lane is longer through the front straight, corner 1, and the back straight. Through the slalom it evened up, then through the center field the previous outside lane was on the inside with the shorter line. I feel the organizers did a very good job with what they had to work with.
[quote]I feel horrible for those that DNF'd on that stage.[/quote]Sure, I feel bad for 'em. But If they can't keep a cool head on stage, then they break things. When you and I were running super-hot down in reno, what happened? We crested smack down onto a rock. I didn't know how to at the time, but I should have been able to rein you back in and get you to drive more conservatively. We had plenty of lead at that point... I can now and thats just what I did. Maybe that's part of the reason why we came home with the G2 Pro win.
-Jason
| Subie Gal | 05-12-2004 11:01 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sube151 [/i]
[B]I was almost creamed out at the back straight. Ralph Kosmides went over the birm directly towards my car. Luckily the over watered road also caused me to slide out of my lane and avoid the impact. :eek:
-Victor
#423 Club Rally [/B][/QUOTE]
although Jason's point of view is interesting - this is exactly what I was referring to.
we're lucky nobody was T-boned or sideswiped.... :eek:
Jamie
[B]I was almost creamed out at the back straight. Ralph Kosmides went over the birm directly towards my car. Luckily the over watered road also caused me to slide out of my lane and avoid the impact. :eek:
-Victor
#423 Club Rally [/B][/QUOTE]
although Jason's point of view is interesting - this is exactly what I was referring to.
we're lucky nobody was T-boned or sideswiped.... :eek:
Jamie
| platypus | 05-12-2004 02:45 PM |
I have to chime in that I didn't enjoy driving on the superstage at all. The track was watered down all to heck, but there was still blinding dust, so you had no grip (ok fine), no seperation of lanes (not fine), no visibility since you were running right next to another car (or in my case slightly behind the car in the next lane), which by the way is generally something that's avoided in rally for safety reasons (via floating reseeds and such). I hope it was entertaining for the fans, because it was very frustrating and annoying for me as a driver.
| CosmoTheCat | 05-12-2004 04:15 PM |
[quote]Other comments: Hats off to Verdier; that guy is FAST. 5th overall in a PGT car...wow. Stage times were really incredible compared to N and Open cars.[/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
mmmmmkay yeaah. :lol:
Next time I'm going to bust out a stopwatch and clock him because his accelleration down the front stretch seemed to be about as fast as Burke's.
:lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
mmmmmkay yeaah. :lol:
Next time I'm going to bust out a stopwatch and clock him because his accelleration down the front stretch seemed to be about as fast as Burke's.
:lol:
| datageek | 05-12-2004 04:54 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Subie Gal [/i]
[B]*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET
[/B][/QUOTE]
Er... How wet can a water crossing get before it's too wet? :huh:
[B]*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET
[/B][/QUOTE]
Er... How wet can a water crossing get before it's too wet? :huh:
| johnfelstead | 05-12-2004 06:01 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by datageek [/i]
[B]Er... How wet can a water crossing get before it's too wet? :huh: [/B][/QUOTE]
Water crossings have limits to depth on rallies under normal circumstances datageek, this is mainly to stop the engines ingesting water and hydrolocking, destroying thousands of $ worth of engine. It's important the organisors do as much as posible to protect the competitors and their equipment, it's an expensive enough sport as it is without dealing with avoidable damage.
The only WRC event that used to not comply with this was the Safari rally in Kenya, and for that the teams installed snorkles for the inlet systems of the engines, so you wouldn't have mass retirements. Jamie also mentioned the back straight in her comment about the level of water used which you didnt address yet quoted.
I am glad you are now learning how to co-drive Jason, it apears there is still a lot you dont understand about what makes a good co-driver though. Good luck with the future events you take part in and keep on building experience.
[B]Er... How wet can a water crossing get before it's too wet? :huh: [/B][/QUOTE]
Water crossings have limits to depth on rallies under normal circumstances datageek, this is mainly to stop the engines ingesting water and hydrolocking, destroying thousands of $ worth of engine. It's important the organisors do as much as posible to protect the competitors and their equipment, it's an expensive enough sport as it is without dealing with avoidable damage.
The only WRC event that used to not comply with this was the Safari rally in Kenya, and for that the teams installed snorkles for the inlet systems of the engines, so you wouldn't have mass retirements. Jamie also mentioned the back straight in her comment about the level of water used which you didnt address yet quoted.
I am glad you are now learning how to co-drive Jason, it apears there is still a lot you dont understand about what makes a good co-driver though. Good luck with the future events you take part in and keep on building experience.
| Kha0S | 05-12-2004 06:07 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead[/i]
[B] Water crossings have limits to depth on rallies under normal circumstances datageek,[/B][/QUOTE]
Four letters for you: STPR. :D
/Andrew
[B] Water crossings have limits to depth on rallies under normal circumstances datageek,[/B][/QUOTE]
Four letters for you: STPR. :D
/Andrew
| johnfelstead | 05-12-2004 06:09 PM |
come again Andrew? :D
| Jgrahn555 | 05-12-2004 06:18 PM |
I think he's referring to shots like this (Stoney Fork Water Crossing):
[url]http://linaracing.com/pics/picturedetail.cfm?picturenumber=1[/url]
[url]http://jenisys.com/fkr/rally/stpr_99/stpr99_2.jpg[/url]
Not so typical for us in the states, but a commonplace for Rally Argentina or what was the Safari Rally.
[url]http://linaracing.com/pics/picturedetail.cfm?picturenumber=1[/url]
[url]http://jenisys.com/fkr/rally/stpr_99/stpr99_2.jpg[/url]
Not so typical for us in the states, but a commonplace for Rally Argentina or what was the Safari Rally.
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