| KC | 11-30-2004 03:39 PM |
2005 ProSolo & Solo-II Tour Dates
�
�
Who wants them? :D (I was thinking about having a contest.. but nahh here they are fresh from my e-mail)
From the current entry form.. dates and schedule subject to change....
[QUOTE]Note: Please note that the schedule for the tours might see some changes. The ProSolo schedule is pretty much set, but could see some changes in dates or locations, but it will NOT have any additional events added.
ProSolo...
March 5-6 Fontana, CA
April 16-17 Atlanta, GA
May 7-8 Atwater, CA
May 21-22 Wendover, UT
June 25-26 Oscoda, MI
August 6-7 Toledo, OH
Tour
Feb. 26-27 El Paso,TX
Mar. 12-13 San Diego, CA
Mar. 19-20 Blytheville, AR
April 2-3 Houston, TX
April 9-10 Atlanta, GA
Apr 30-May 1 Atwater, CA
June 11-12 Toledo, OH
July 2-3 Peru, IN
July 23-24 Seattle, WA
July 30-31 Denver, CO[/QUOTE]
Not happy about the ProSolo getting the shaft. There'll be some correspondence to members about requirements being mailed out within the next week or two.
I don't see a North East Tour yet... but like the NOTE above states... things could change.
From the current entry form.. dates and schedule subject to change....
[QUOTE]Note: Please note that the schedule for the tours might see some changes. The ProSolo schedule is pretty much set, but could see some changes in dates or locations, but it will NOT have any additional events added.
ProSolo...
March 5-6 Fontana, CA
April 16-17 Atlanta, GA
May 7-8 Atwater, CA
May 21-22 Wendover, UT
June 25-26 Oscoda, MI
August 6-7 Toledo, OH
Tour
Feb. 26-27 El Paso,TX
Mar. 12-13 San Diego, CA
Mar. 19-20 Blytheville, AR
April 2-3 Houston, TX
April 9-10 Atlanta, GA
Apr 30-May 1 Atwater, CA
June 11-12 Toledo, OH
July 2-3 Peru, IN
July 23-24 Seattle, WA
July 30-31 Denver, CO[/QUOTE]
Not happy about the ProSolo getting the shaft. There'll be some correspondence to members about requirements being mailed out within the next week or two.
I don't see a North East Tour yet... but like the NOTE above states... things could change.
| Corey | 11-30-2004 03:46 PM |
Ouch... it will be hard for me to get 3 Pro's in now... I'm pretty much stuck with Oscoda, Toledo, and Atlanta...
Geez, Tours are going to be tough too.
No more 8 National events in a season for me...
Corey #89 STS
Geez, Tours are going to be tough too.
No more 8 National events in a season for me...
Corey #89 STS
| KC | 11-30-2004 03:52 PM |
Like I said, there'll be a mailing sent to members about the requirements. I highly doubt it's going to be 3 of 4 with this few of events.
| trhoppe | 11-30-2004 04:05 PM |
This really blows!
-Tom
-Tom
| wrx2.0 555 | 11-30-2004 04:05 PM |
I've never campaigned either schedule, but anyone coming from Florida is pretty screwed no matter how you look at it.
At least I have relatives to stay with in Atlanta, so thats no biggie, but whats the next closest to that??
Scott
At least I have relatives to stay with in Atlanta, so thats no biggie, but whats the next closest to that??
Scott
| ratt_finkel | 11-30-2004 04:18 PM |
Kick ass, I can do El Paso, Blythville, and Houston and maybe Denver. Why do these locations look so much different than last years? Or am I just a n00b?
EDIT: Wow, that's almost 3000 miles total round trip, not including denver.
EDIT: Wow, that's almost 3000 miles total round trip, not including denver.
| PhilC | 11-30-2004 04:27 PM |
Next closest Pro to Florida is Toledo, just straight up I-75. Oscoda is another 3 and a half or 4 hours north of Toledo. Not sure which of the Tour events would be easiest to get to from Florida.
Bummed about the Pro schedule for sure, Jen and I had talked about maybe even trying to do 5 Pros if they had kept the same schedule as last year.
Bummed about the Pro schedule for sure, Jen and I had talked about maybe even trying to do 5 Pros if they had kept the same schedule as last year.
| Butt Dyno | 11-30-2004 04:39 PM |
Sucks that both the Pro and the Tour are gone from Fedex *and* Petersburg :(
Ohio is the closest National anything to here.. New England gets it worse than we do.. bleh
john
Ohio is the closest National anything to here.. New England gets it worse than we do.. bleh
john
| KC | 11-30-2004 04:45 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]Sucks that both the Pro and the Tour are gone from Fedex *and* Petersburg :(
Ohio is the closest National anything to here.. New England gets it worse than we do.. bleh
john[/QUOTE]
Yes... that is correct. Toledo is the CLOSEST right now. It's times like this I say.. kill solo in the North East... there's no reason to do it.. sites are getting lost, greater restrictions on those sites we do have... and now the nearest national event is 10hours away.
Ohio is the closest National anything to here.. New England gets it worse than we do.. bleh
john[/QUOTE]
Yes... that is correct. Toledo is the CLOSEST right now. It's times like this I say.. kill solo in the North East... there's no reason to do it.. sites are getting lost, greater restrictions on those sites we do have... and now the nearest national event is 10hours away.
| stxwrxracer | 11-30-2004 05:39 PM |
LMAO!!! This sucks! There are so many venues that are not being tapped in the SE...Where's anything Topeka?? Hopefully this is bigtime tentative...
-MK
-MK
| dwx | 11-30-2004 05:40 PM |
I had heard rumors of them having two Pros in Toledo. From what the DC region people posted on sccaforums.com they just didn't want to do the national events, they wanted to concentrate on the eastern regional championship.
| KC | 11-30-2004 06:06 PM |
From someone I know when discussing this issue:
Speaking of Gulf Coast Autocrossers....
[QUOTE]The course never really changed in the three years that I went to the Tour there. Last year the course was a bit different, but had safety issues. I pointed it out as Sammy Strano (he's got a sale on shocks & seats!) and Tasha were running the course. They changed it after they felt it was not safe as it should be. This frosted the event chair. Tough, it was the right thing to do. So, he took his toy and said no.[/QUOTE]
I hate politics like that. Let the people play.
Speaking of Gulf Coast Autocrossers....
[QUOTE]The course never really changed in the three years that I went to the Tour there. Last year the course was a bit different, but had safety issues. I pointed it out as Sammy Strano (he's got a sale on shocks & seats!) and Tasha were running the course. They changed it after they felt it was not safe as it should be. This frosted the event chair. Tough, it was the right thing to do. So, he took his toy and said no.[/QUOTE]
I hate politics like that. Let the people play.
| Patrick L | 11-30-2004 06:07 PM |
This is BS. No Pros in TX or the midwest division.
| kwh29 | 11-30-2004 07:19 PM |
Too bad GCAC took their site and went to play with themselves. Not allowing anyone else to design the course there killed a great site. There are so many possibilities on that site and people really seemed to like having a week long vacation in S Florida in the deepest winter.
--Kevin H.
--Kevin H.
| MNbiker | 11-30-2004 08:33 PM |
I agree - this schedule blows! :furious:
Not only is the Pro schedule weak, but they did a really poor job of staggering what few events they do have around the country. In order to do a decent number of Pro's/Tour's that are less than 20 hours away, it looks like I'll have to take time off every week for a solid month. :confused:
-Steve
Not only is the Pro schedule weak, but they did a really poor job of staggering what few events they do have around the country. In order to do a decent number of Pro's/Tour's that are less than 20 hours away, it looks like I'll have to take time off every week for a solid month. :confused:
-Steve
| solo-x | 11-30-2004 10:44 PM |
keith, what you posted depressed me beyond belief. i guess indoor karting will have to be my crack pipe if things for SoloII keep going the direction they have been...
nate - trying to figure out who to blame
nate - trying to figure out who to blame
| RS WRC | 11-30-2004 11:06 PM |
Well, it looks like a lot of towing to me!
Any CA people in here who wants to co-drive GA and OH in exchange of two CA ProSolos :)
Any CA people in here who wants to co-drive GA and OH in exchange of two CA ProSolos :)
| Scoobie Doogie | 12-01-2004 12:51 AM |
[QUOTE=Corey]Ouch... it will be hard for me to get 3 Pro's in now... I'm pretty much stuck with Oscoda, Toledo, and Atlanta...
Geez, Tours are going to be tough too.
No more 8 National events in a season for me...
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
I was planning on Tours too. I guess we'll be doing some long hauls now. Hershey could support a Tour but the local region would have to do some serious re-vamping and be willing to bring in help from Philly and WDCR.
Dave M.
Geez, Tours are going to be tough too.
No more 8 National events in a season for me...
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
I was planning on Tours too. I guess we'll be doing some long hauls now. Hershey could support a Tour but the local region would have to do some serious re-vamping and be willing to bring in help from Philly and WDCR.
Dave M.
| dwx | 12-01-2004 01:15 AM |
I think the national tours are probably fair game for whoever wants to host one. What kind of national presence is required at the tour events? I know with the Pros there is quite a bit more involved and I think the 6 events is an effort to reduce costs. I'm not complaining too much because I still have 2 Pros within 8 hours (Toledo and Oscoda). Last year I had 4 Pros within about 9 hours. The next closest in both cases is Atlanta at about 14 hours. At least having the two Pros I'm likely to enter at the end of the year gives me time to get the new car sorted out.
I wasn't a big fan of the Pro in Atlanta, I thought the lot was too small to do a Pro in.
I wasn't a big fan of the Pro in Atlanta, I thought the lot was too small to do a Pro in.
| mofugga | 12-01-2004 03:25 AM |
as far as GCAC not holding a prosolo or national tour this year in ft myers, they'll be lucky if they don't lose the site w/in the next year or so. homes are being built alongside the runway, home owners don't like the noise & complain to the runway owners, unfortunately i think they'll end up losing. did the home owners really expect quiet when there's a runway across the street???
i'm not a member of GCAC so i can't speak on their behalf but just thought i'd share my thoughts on why nothing's being held there this year. :(
i'm not a member of GCAC so i can't speak on their behalf but just thought i'd share my thoughts on why nothing's being held there this year. :(
| Corey | 12-01-2004 07:37 AM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie]Hershey could support a Tour but the local region would have to do some serious re-vamping and be willing to bring in help from Philly and WDCR.
Dave M.[/QUOTE]
Dave,
Hershey came to mind immediately when I saw that there were no NT's in the Northeast. The lot could definately support a tour. We should talk...
Corey #89 STS
Dave M.[/QUOTE]
Dave,
Hershey came to mind immediately when I saw that there were no NT's in the Northeast. The lot could definately support a tour. We should talk...
Corey #89 STS
| CamaroFS34 | 12-01-2004 10:02 AM |
Well, the problem with Hershey, as I understand it, is the requirement to be off the site by 5:00PM. It's a great site, yes, but to get around that time constraint would probably require more $$$, and it's the cost of the lot that is part of the reason FedEx is off the schedule (that, and the elitists of the DC region feel that they can do a better job of running their own "championship series" -- any other East Coast regions been contacted regarding that?).
I wouldn't be surprised if the DC region also tries to squelch Philly and Susquehanna events at Ripken (which, technically is in their territory, and according to a ruling last year, means they can prevent other regions from getting an SCCA sanction to run there). They've already expressed some displeasure at the fact that Autocrossers Inc. (a Susquehanna club) has scheduled dates at Ripken with no consideration given to the DC region schedule.
Oh, and I really, really hate the fact that my yearly Wendover trip isn't gonna happen unless I fly out and back. :(
Karen
I wouldn't be surprised if the DC region also tries to squelch Philly and Susquehanna events at Ripken (which, technically is in their territory, and according to a ruling last year, means they can prevent other regions from getting an SCCA sanction to run there). They've already expressed some displeasure at the fact that Autocrossers Inc. (a Susquehanna club) has scheduled dates at Ripken with no consideration given to the DC region schedule.
Oh, and I really, really hate the fact that my yearly Wendover trip isn't gonna happen unless I fly out and back. :(
Karen
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 10:11 AM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34]Well, the problem with Hershey, as I understand it, is the requirement to be off the site by 5:00PM. It's a great site, yes, but to get around that time constraint would probably require more $$$, and it's the cost of the lot that is part of the reason FedEx is off the schedule (that, and the elitists of the DC region feel that they can do a better job of running their own "championship series" -- any other East Coast regions been contacted regarding that?).
I wouldn't be surprised if the DC region also tries to squelch Philly and Susquehanna events at Ripken (which, technically is in their territory, and according to a ruling last year, means they can prevent other regions from getting an SCCA sanction to run there). They've already expressed some displeasure at the fact that Autocrossers Inc. (a Susquehanna club) has scheduled dates at Ripken with no consideration given to the DC region schedule.
Oh, and I really, really hate the fact that my yearly Wendover trip isn't gonna happen unless I fly out and back. :(
Karen[/QUOTE]
Wow. Just wow.
I wouldn't be surprised if the DC region also tries to squelch Philly and Susquehanna events at Ripken (which, technically is in their territory, and according to a ruling last year, means they can prevent other regions from getting an SCCA sanction to run there). They've already expressed some displeasure at the fact that Autocrossers Inc. (a Susquehanna club) has scheduled dates at Ripken with no consideration given to the DC region schedule.
Oh, and I really, really hate the fact that my yearly Wendover trip isn't gonna happen unless I fly out and back. :(
Karen[/QUOTE]
Wow. Just wow.
| KC | 12-01-2004 11:11 AM |
Not meant as a gripe, so please don't read it that way, but what happened to Steve Johnsons promise in 2003 to help with Solo site acquisition?
Has any development come of this? It's now entering the season 2 years later... and one of the more popular programs (ProSolo) has lost 2-3 sites... then you have local cluobs being territorial with 'ownership' of sites (which was another thing that I thought was going to be delt with from the 2003 ann'l meeting).
Has any development come of this? It's now entering the season 2 years later... and one of the more popular programs (ProSolo) has lost 2-3 sites... then you have local cluobs being territorial with 'ownership' of sites (which was another thing that I thought was going to be delt with from the 2003 ann'l meeting).
| AUTOwrXER | 12-01-2004 12:01 PM |
I'm not sure what Steve can do, honestly. We don't bring many good things to a site. Our rent is very low, and the site takes on risk, noise. surface wear, etc. Site acquisition is one of my biggest issues in Atlanta. We lost one last year, and now we need to implement noise restrictions to keep another in 2005. There are a number of other places that we could use, but not for events with 200+ cars.
Joel
Joel
| KC | 12-01-2004 12:09 PM |
THen he shouldn't have made the 'promise'. Or, he needs to issue a statement saying 'welp... no can do sorry about that'.
| CamaroFS34 | 12-01-2004 12:18 PM |
I remember Steve saying something about helping with site acquisition as well, but I think it was more along the lines of putting together a presentation package for regions to show what autocross is/is not to prospective sites.
I think the noise restrictions are a hard thing to deal with though. The level of tolerance of the neighbors can vary site to site, and even year to year. I know from running events at Petersburg that it's not even necessarily the event noise that can cause problems -- too often, it's spectators who are showing off mAdd sKilLZ up and down the streets nearby, or, worse yet, competitors venting/playing/being 'tards to and from the site. Possibly the best way to deal with noise issues is to be proactive, and make sure you can [i]show[/i] you're being proactive. Be hard on people who are jeopardizing your site -- including penalizing people who bring/invite spectators who are part of the problem. Keep documentation, and if noise issues come up, show what you've been doing. Some of the people who complain about noise issues don't realize how unreasonable their demands are until confronted with facts (such as those who think that a 50dB max is reasonable, until it's pointed out that they violate their own "rule" when they talk out loud).
Karen
I think the noise restrictions are a hard thing to deal with though. The level of tolerance of the neighbors can vary site to site, and even year to year. I know from running events at Petersburg that it's not even necessarily the event noise that can cause problems -- too often, it's spectators who are showing off mAdd sKilLZ up and down the streets nearby, or, worse yet, competitors venting/playing/being 'tards to and from the site. Possibly the best way to deal with noise issues is to be proactive, and make sure you can [i]show[/i] you're being proactive. Be hard on people who are jeopardizing your site -- including penalizing people who bring/invite spectators who are part of the problem. Keep documentation, and if noise issues come up, show what you've been doing. Some of the people who complain about noise issues don't realize how unreasonable their demands are until confronted with facts (such as those who think that a 50dB max is reasonable, until it's pointed out that they violate their own "rule" when they talk out loud).
Karen
| DrBiggly | 12-01-2004 12:45 PM |
This schedule looks sad for anybody in the east coast region. At least I have Atlanta, that's only 6 hours or so from me. Taking away Petersburg, DC, and (was Ripken a previous site?) Ft. Myers really hurts. :(
| trhoppe | 12-01-2004 12:59 PM |
I guess looks like
ProSolo...
April 16-17 Atlanta, GA
June 25-26 Oscoda, MI
August 6-7 Toledo, OH
Tour
April 9-10 Atlanta, GA
June 11-12 Toledo, OH
July 2-3 Peru, IN
for us....
I definetly wanted to do 5 Pros this year. GA, MI, OH, DC, and IN. Sucks they took the last two away.
-Tom
ProSolo...
April 16-17 Atlanta, GA
June 25-26 Oscoda, MI
August 6-7 Toledo, OH
Tour
April 9-10 Atlanta, GA
June 11-12 Toledo, OH
July 2-3 Peru, IN
for us....
I definetly wanted to do 5 Pros this year. GA, MI, OH, DC, and IN. Sucks they took the last two away.
-Tom
| dwx | 12-01-2004 01:02 PM |
First I think the Pro thing was due to financial reasons, not site issues.
I agree with Karen and thnk the original promise was just to build literature to help convey what autocross is. I wouldn't be too surprised if you called the SCCA and they had something like that. Site acquisition is unique to every situation so I'm not sure what the SCCA can really do other than explain to the site owner the insurance coverage and whatnot. I think in most areas of the countries, regions are willing to work together when site issues come up.
We (Milwaukee) ran a co-event up here with the Chicago region when they had a site issue. They had an ongoing noise issue at one of their sites, and it only takes 1 person to complain to the city/county to get booted out of the site. In that case it was apparently street tires squealing that was bothering people, not exhaust noise.
We have a great site in Miller Park, but they are building a park nearby as part of a revitilazation effort east of the stadium. I'm afraid when that's done in a couple years, we won't be able to use that facility anymore.
I agree with Karen and thnk the original promise was just to build literature to help convey what autocross is. I wouldn't be too surprised if you called the SCCA and they had something like that. Site acquisition is unique to every situation so I'm not sure what the SCCA can really do other than explain to the site owner the insurance coverage and whatnot. I think in most areas of the countries, regions are willing to work together when site issues come up.
We (Milwaukee) ran a co-event up here with the Chicago region when they had a site issue. They had an ongoing noise issue at one of their sites, and it only takes 1 person to complain to the city/county to get booted out of the site. In that case it was apparently street tires squealing that was bothering people, not exhaust noise.
We have a great site in Miller Park, but they are building a park nearby as part of a revitilazation effort east of the stadium. I'm afraid when that's done in a couple years, we won't be able to use that facility anymore.
| DrBiggly | 12-01-2004 01:04 PM |
Hey Tom,
I might need a place to crash in April. You got a couch or some floor available? :D
I might need a place to crash in April. You got a couch or some floor available? :D
| rockt104 | 12-01-2004 01:04 PM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34]
I wouldn't be surprised if the DC region also tries to squelch Philly and Susquehanna events at Ripken (which, technically is in their territory, and according to a ruling last year, means they can prevent other regions from getting an SCCA sanction to run there). They've already expressed some displeasure at the fact that Autocrossers Inc. (a Susquehanna club) has scheduled dates at Ripken with no consideration given to the DC region schedule.
Karen[/QUOTE]
Now that is depressing. It is not like it easy to have these events to begin with, with all the resistance from locals and site limitations...To hear that there is even resistance from within the autocross �community� is pathetic, but it does not surprise me it would be from WDC.
Hershey would me great, but the lot cost and time restrictions would be significant issues. A Philly / Susq combination would certainly have the person power to do it though.
Kevin
I wouldn't be surprised if the DC region also tries to squelch Philly and Susquehanna events at Ripken (which, technically is in their territory, and according to a ruling last year, means they can prevent other regions from getting an SCCA sanction to run there). They've already expressed some displeasure at the fact that Autocrossers Inc. (a Susquehanna club) has scheduled dates at Ripken with no consideration given to the DC region schedule.
Karen[/QUOTE]
Now that is depressing. It is not like it easy to have these events to begin with, with all the resistance from locals and site limitations...To hear that there is even resistance from within the autocross �community� is pathetic, but it does not surprise me it would be from WDC.
Hershey would me great, but the lot cost and time restrictions would be significant issues. A Philly / Susq combination would certainly have the person power to do it though.
Kevin
| Butt Dyno | 12-01-2004 01:23 PM |
The wierd thing is, the WDCR SCCA events fill up in 3 minutes. It's not like they are hurting for customers. And I dont' think too many people would argue that Ripken is a better lot than Fedex. Shrug..
edit for clarity: I loves me some WDCR events and they feel pretty damn well run to me. I am season-subscribed. Just trying to figure out why they would care about anyone else's events. I guess it would be courteous to attempt to coordinate...
john
edit for clarity: I loves me some WDCR events and they feel pretty damn well run to me. I am season-subscribed. Just trying to figure out why they would care about anyone else's events. I guess it would be courteous to attempt to coordinate...
john
| Scooby Freak | 12-01-2004 01:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Corey]Dave,
Hershey came to mind immediately when I saw that there were no NT's in the Northeast. The lot could definately support a tour. We should talk...
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
I don't know everything involved, but don't you think Philadelphia Park could support a tour event? That's where they ran Mazda Rev It Up the past two years.
-jeff
Hershey came to mind immediately when I saw that there were no NT's in the Northeast. The lot could definately support a tour. We should talk...
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
I don't know everything involved, but don't you think Philadelphia Park could support a tour event? That's where they ran Mazda Rev It Up the past two years.
-jeff
| PKer | 12-01-2004 01:39 PM |
N00b? Is the Atwater CA the Atwater near Los Angeles or the Atwater in northern CA?
| dwx | 12-01-2004 01:56 PM |
Northern. It's at castle airport.
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 02:23 PM |
Comments from Jim Howard on SCCAForums:
[quote]
Many, many reasons. However, the primary concern that drove the decision of the 20+ member WDCR Solo II committee was that we believe that we can serve the members of SCCA much better by attempting to do an East Coast Championship series with our neighboring Regions without National involvement.
The biggest downside that we could see was that we might lose the chance to attract competitors from farther away who chase the National tour across the country and the higher degree of competition that might be brought by those competitors. However, we believe that the events in our Region already have some very strong competition including a number of nationally competive drivers (including those from all over the East Coast).
That potential loss, was not worth the other negatives which I will not get into on a public forum.
Jim[/quote]
[quote]
Many, many reasons. However, the primary concern that drove the decision of the 20+ member WDCR Solo II committee was that we believe that we can serve the members of SCCA much better by attempting to do an East Coast Championship series with our neighboring Regions without National involvement.
The biggest downside that we could see was that we might lose the chance to attract competitors from farther away who chase the National tour across the country and the higher degree of competition that might be brought by those competitors. However, we believe that the events in our Region already have some very strong competition including a number of nationally competive drivers (including those from all over the East Coast).
That potential loss, was not worth the other negatives which I will not get into on a public forum.
Jim[/quote]
| KC | 12-01-2004 02:25 PM |
Since when does WDCR speak for all the east coast membership?
| DrBiggly | 12-01-2004 02:27 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Since when does WDCR speak for all the east coast membership?[/QUOTE]
Didn't you hear? They have some National-level drivers in their immediate area. That makes them special.
Didn't you hear? They have some National-level drivers in their immediate area. That makes them special.
| KC | 12-01-2004 02:33 PM |
I mean I understand that they can effectively say no they don't want to do it.. but if other regions around them just CAN'T host one because of space or site restrictions, I think that some regions should step up and say 'for the greater good of the members, sure no problem.'
But to say... nahh, we thing we can do one better... really irks me.
Wow, I can't believe how jaded I've gotten!
But to say... nahh, we thing we can do one better... really irks me.
Wow, I can't believe how jaded I've gotten!
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 02:37 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]The wierd thing is, the WDCR SCCA events fill up in 3 minutes. It's not like they are hurting for customers. And I dont' think too many people would argue that Ripken is a better lot than Fedex. Shrug..
edit for clarity: I loves me some WDCR events and they feel pretty damn well run to me. I am season-subscribed. Just trying to figure out why they would care about anyone else's events. I guess it would be courteous to attempt to coordinate...
john[/QUOTE]
I would agree. The WDCR seems well run and attracts are large number of autocrossers (enough so that registering for an event requires lightning fast reflexes and a hyper-fast internet connection ;)). I have never seen a reason why they have done anything to "squeltch" other events (then again I may not have had an oppurtunity to see it). I can understand why the WDCR would be upset if other region autocrosses were planned on the same weekend as their well established and long predetermined schedule. The Council seems to have no problems scheduling with them.
edit for clarity: I loves me some WDCR events and they feel pretty damn well run to me. I am season-subscribed. Just trying to figure out why they would care about anyone else's events. I guess it would be courteous to attempt to coordinate...
john[/QUOTE]
I would agree. The WDCR seems well run and attracts are large number of autocrossers (enough so that registering for an event requires lightning fast reflexes and a hyper-fast internet connection ;)). I have never seen a reason why they have done anything to "squeltch" other events (then again I may not have had an oppurtunity to see it). I can understand why the WDCR would be upset if other region autocrosses were planned on the same weekend as their well established and long predetermined schedule. The Council seems to have no problems scheduling with them.
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 02:42 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]I mean I understand that they can effectively say no they don't want to do it.. but if other regions around them just CAN'T host one because of space or site restrictions, I think that some regions should step up and say 'for the greater good of the members, sure no problem.'
But to say... nahh, we thing we can do one better... really irks me.
Wow, I can't believe how jaded I've gotten![/QUOTE]
Wow, and they are supposed to be the jaded ones. :rolleyes:
Assuming the worst in people usually indicates a jaded nature, cynical too :)
But to say... nahh, we thing we can do one better... really irks me.
Wow, I can't believe how jaded I've gotten![/QUOTE]
Wow, and they are supposed to be the jaded ones. :rolleyes:
Assuming the worst in people usually indicates a jaded nature, cynical too :)
| Corey | 12-01-2004 02:50 PM |
[QUOTE=ringthree]"registering for an event requires lightning fast reflexes and a hyper-fast internet connection"
"I can understand why the WDCR would be upset if other region autocrosses were planned on the same weekend as their well established and long predetermined schedule"[/QUOTE]
Those 2 sentances just don't go together...
Obviously there are more autocrossers in the area than they can support... but you can understand being upset because another region schedules a conflicting auto-x at a site that is 1.5 hours away from Fed-Ex?
Maybe I am missing something?
Corey #89 STS
"I can understand why the WDCR would be upset if other region autocrosses were planned on the same weekend as their well established and long predetermined schedule"[/QUOTE]
Those 2 sentances just don't go together...
Obviously there are more autocrossers in the area than they can support... but you can understand being upset because another region schedules a conflicting auto-x at a site that is 1.5 hours away from Fed-Ex?
Maybe I am missing something?
Corey #89 STS
| AUTOwrXER | 12-01-2004 02:56 PM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34]I remember Steve saying something about helping with site acquisition as well, but I think it was more along the lines of putting together a presentation package for regions to show what autocross is/is not to prospective sites.
I think the noise restrictions are a hard thing to deal with though. The level of tolerance of the neighbors can vary site to site, and even year to year. I know from running events at Petersburg that it's not even necessarily the event noise that can cause problems -- too often, it's spectators who are showing off mAdd sKilLZ up and down the streets nearby, or, worse yet, competitors venting/playing/being 'tards to and from the site. Possibly the best way to deal with noise issues is to be proactive, and make sure you can [i]show[/i] you're being proactive. Be hard on people who are jeopardizing your site -- including penalizing people who bring/invite spectators who are part of the problem. Keep documentation, and if noise issues come up, show what you've been doing. Some of the people who complain about noise issues don't realize how unreasonable their demands are until confronted with facts (such as those who think that a 50dB max is reasonable, until it's pointed out that they violate their own "rule" when they talk out loud).
Karen[/QUOTE]
They did put literature together to aid in this process, and I sent it out to one prospective location last year. It's not bad literature, but when you get to the bottom of it all there is a lot of risk for a $1000 rental fee (which doesn't even register on the balance sheet).
Regarding the ricer fly-bys, we will be inviting the local authorities to step up patrol in the surrounding areas during events. I don't care how people feel about it; If you are jeopardizing one of my event sites then you can go to hell.
Joel
I think the noise restrictions are a hard thing to deal with though. The level of tolerance of the neighbors can vary site to site, and even year to year. I know from running events at Petersburg that it's not even necessarily the event noise that can cause problems -- too often, it's spectators who are showing off mAdd sKilLZ up and down the streets nearby, or, worse yet, competitors venting/playing/being 'tards to and from the site. Possibly the best way to deal with noise issues is to be proactive, and make sure you can [i]show[/i] you're being proactive. Be hard on people who are jeopardizing your site -- including penalizing people who bring/invite spectators who are part of the problem. Keep documentation, and if noise issues come up, show what you've been doing. Some of the people who complain about noise issues don't realize how unreasonable their demands are until confronted with facts (such as those who think that a 50dB max is reasonable, until it's pointed out that they violate their own "rule" when they talk out loud).
Karen[/QUOTE]
They did put literature together to aid in this process, and I sent it out to one prospective location last year. It's not bad literature, but when you get to the bottom of it all there is a lot of risk for a $1000 rental fee (which doesn't even register on the balance sheet).
Regarding the ricer fly-bys, we will be inviting the local authorities to step up patrol in the surrounding areas during events. I don't care how people feel about it; If you are jeopardizing one of my event sites then you can go to hell.
Joel
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 03:01 PM |
[QUOTE=Corey]Those 2 sentances just don't go together...
Obviously there are more autocrossers in the area than they can support... but you can understand being upset because another region schedules a conflicting auto-x at a site that is 1.5 hours away from Fed-Ex?
Maybe I am missing something?
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
I believe that the question was about a lack of consultation and coordination. Many of the WDCR would support those events if they were planned not to over lap. Success doesn't obviate the benefits of proper coordination and support. The Council is a good example of this (although, the council could be support more, and I will be going to more Rosecroft events, expensive tires be damned!)
This is my assumption, as I am not in WDCR meetings, but my guess, and this is after interacting with several of the WDCR "bigwigs," is that they do no turn into evil "elitist" autocross-weekend-hogging demons at the meetings, then return to their normal friendly and helpful selves at the events...
Obviously there are more autocrossers in the area than they can support... but you can understand being upset because another region schedules a conflicting auto-x at a site that is 1.5 hours away from Fed-Ex?
Maybe I am missing something?
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
I believe that the question was about a lack of consultation and coordination. Many of the WDCR would support those events if they were planned not to over lap. Success doesn't obviate the benefits of proper coordination and support. The Council is a good example of this (although, the council could be support more, and I will be going to more Rosecroft events, expensive tires be damned!)
This is my assumption, as I am not in WDCR meetings, but my guess, and this is after interacting with several of the WDCR "bigwigs," is that they do no turn into evil "elitist" autocross-weekend-hogging demons at the meetings, then return to their normal friendly and helpful selves at the events...
| KC | 12-01-2004 03:11 PM |
It's quite easy for you to be complacent with the WCDR events... you live in a region that has quite a selection of events to attend with other clubs within that 1.5 hrs. I and others do not have that same opportunity....
Up here in New England... we used to hold the North East tour until the owners of the property started imposing some limits... and they changed the gounds a bit... Now, he have no where that can host a tour. We would in a heartbeat if we could!
But for any one of us to attend a tour or national event is becoming that much greater a hardship when other regions only think about themselves, and their own 'local' members that can bring $$ into their own club.
Then I ask.. why even be a member of the SCCA if they wish to live in their own little world?
(I know I don't know all the facts, nor do I pretend to. But I beleive that every region should have a Tour that benefits all members from far and wide.)
--KC
Up here in New England... we used to hold the North East tour until the owners of the property started imposing some limits... and they changed the gounds a bit... Now, he have no where that can host a tour. We would in a heartbeat if we could!
But for any one of us to attend a tour or national event is becoming that much greater a hardship when other regions only think about themselves, and their own 'local' members that can bring $$ into their own club.
Then I ask.. why even be a member of the SCCA if they wish to live in their own little world?
(I know I don't know all the facts, nor do I pretend to. But I beleive that every region should have a Tour that benefits all members from far and wide.)
--KC
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 03:19 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]It's quite easy for you to be complacent with the WCDR events... you live in a region that has quite a selection of events to attend with other clubs within that 1.5 hrs. I and others do not have that same opportunity....
Up here in New England... we used to hold the North East tour until the owners of the property started imposing some limits... and they changed the gounds a bit... Now, he have no where that can host a tour. We would in a heartbeat if we could!
But for any one of us to attend a tour or national event is becoming that much greater a hardship when other regions only think about themselves, and their own 'local' members that can bring $$ into their own club.
Then I ask.. why even be a member of the SCCA if they wish to live in their own little world?
(I know I don't know all the facts, nor do I pretend to. But I beleive that every region should have a Tour that benefits all members from far and wide.)
--KC[/QUOTE]
So instead of your region going through the hardship of hosting an event, you now demand that another region does it or you will become indignant?
Why do you believe that the WDCR wouldn't do the national stop if they believed it was worth it? Again, that appears to be a bit jaded.
Believe me, I would much prefer a National Tour stop in DC. It is convienent for all of us. But sometimes the cost far out weighs the advantages. You are only looking at one side of the coin. If you want to see the other side, I am sure a quick e-mail to Jim Howard would get you the negatives that he prefered not to post in a public forum...
Up here in New England... we used to hold the North East tour until the owners of the property started imposing some limits... and they changed the gounds a bit... Now, he have no where that can host a tour. We would in a heartbeat if we could!
But for any one of us to attend a tour or national event is becoming that much greater a hardship when other regions only think about themselves, and their own 'local' members that can bring $$ into their own club.
Then I ask.. why even be a member of the SCCA if they wish to live in their own little world?
(I know I don't know all the facts, nor do I pretend to. But I beleive that every region should have a Tour that benefits all members from far and wide.)
--KC[/QUOTE]
So instead of your region going through the hardship of hosting an event, you now demand that another region does it or you will become indignant?
Why do you believe that the WDCR wouldn't do the national stop if they believed it was worth it? Again, that appears to be a bit jaded.
Believe me, I would much prefer a National Tour stop in DC. It is convienent for all of us. But sometimes the cost far out weighs the advantages. You are only looking at one side of the coin. If you want to see the other side, I am sure a quick e-mail to Jim Howard would get you the negatives that he prefered not to post in a public forum...
| rockt104 | 12-01-2004 03:25 PM |
[QUOTE=ringthree]Success doesn't obviate the benefits of proper coordination and support.
[/QUOTE]
Coordination and support is irrelevant when both groups have proven they can have autonomous events that are successful, full of racers and 1.5 hours apart. This is not a military operation. What it comes down to is ego.
Kevin
[/QUOTE]
Coordination and support is irrelevant when both groups have proven they can have autonomous events that are successful, full of racers and 1.5 hours apart. This is not a military operation. What it comes down to is ego.
Kevin
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 03:35 PM |
[QUOTE=rockt104]Coordination and support is irrelevant when both groups have proven they can have autonomous events that are successful, full of racers and 1.5 hours apart. This is not a military operation. What it comes down to is ego.
Kevin[/QUOTE]
Yes, fear the bloated ego's of the WDCR. :rolleyes: How about this, try making a real argument.
Is this just more Yankee syndrome? You have to hate those that are more sucessful? Seems a little ridiculous to me. No matter how successful you are, competition is competition. It would be more beneficial if events were coordinated because it would not be competition, it would be cooperative. But again, I dont know the motivations of these seemingly demonic-transforming autocrossers.
Kevin[/QUOTE]
Yes, fear the bloated ego's of the WDCR. :rolleyes: How about this, try making a real argument.
Is this just more Yankee syndrome? You have to hate those that are more sucessful? Seems a little ridiculous to me. No matter how successful you are, competition is competition. It would be more beneficial if events were coordinated because it would not be competition, it would be cooperative. But again, I dont know the motivations of these seemingly demonic-transforming autocrossers.
| KC | 12-01-2004 03:39 PM |
[QUOTE=ringthree]So instead of your region going through the hardship of hosting an event, you now demand that another region does it or you will become indignant? [/QUOTE]
Grap on your reading comprehension?
[QUOTE=KC]Up here in New England... we used to hold the North East tour until the owners of the property started imposing some limits... and they changed the gounds a bit... Now, he have no where that can host a tour. We would in a heartbeat if we could![/QUOTE]
We would if we could!
Grap on your reading comprehension?
[QUOTE=KC]Up here in New England... we used to hold the North East tour until the owners of the property started imposing some limits... and they changed the gounds a bit... Now, he have no where that can host a tour. We would in a heartbeat if we could![/QUOTE]
We would if we could!
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 03:57 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Grap on your reading comprehension?
We would if we could![/QUOTE]
Why would you think that the WDCR would be in any different of a situation? Seriously dont accuse others of failing to comprehend text and then do it yourself.
Unless of course, you have already sent that e-mail to Jim Howard so you can get the negatives about the WDCR hosting the tour...
Have you ever thought that the national tour might be so detrimental to WDCR that they HAD to pass on it, and in an attempt to make up for it they are trying to do an Eastern Championship?
No, that would be logical... and it wouldn't let you imagine them as the demonic creatures that you want them to be.
We would if we could![/QUOTE]
Why would you think that the WDCR would be in any different of a situation? Seriously dont accuse others of failing to comprehend text and then do it yourself.
Unless of course, you have already sent that e-mail to Jim Howard so you can get the negatives about the WDCR hosting the tour...
Have you ever thought that the national tour might be so detrimental to WDCR that they HAD to pass on it, and in an attempt to make up for it they are trying to do an Eastern Championship?
No, that would be logical... and it wouldn't let you imagine them as the demonic creatures that you want them to be.
| KC | 12-01-2004 03:58 PM |
I speaking of any reagion in the North East.
Reading that e-mail from Jim makes it seem they had something better to do....
I'm not saying anything about the people that run it... so please stop taking this as a personal affront. I'm just reading that the 'public' reason is that they have something better in store for 'the members of the area'.
--kC
Reading that e-mail from Jim makes it seem they had something better to do....
I'm not saying anything about the people that run it... so please stop taking this as a personal affront. I'm just reading that the 'public' reason is that they have something better in store for 'the members of the area'.
--kC
| rockt104 | 12-01-2004 04:01 PM |
[QUOTE=ringthree]Yes, fear the bloated ego's of the WDCR. :rolleyes: How about this, try making a real argument.
Is this just more Yankee syndrome? You have to hate those that are more sucessful?[/QUOTE]
Successful? This is not a business, even though DC resembles it. Any event that is safe and gets people racing is a success. The fact that WDC "processes" more people does not, IMO, make them more successful. WDC fills up in 10 minutes, and Ripken events are filled with cars�so how is your argument competition?
My �ego� statement is not subject for argument, it is an opinion of mine as to why this conversation is taking place�and why fellow car enthusiast would want to hinder each others events.
Is this just more Yankee syndrome? You have to hate those that are more sucessful?[/QUOTE]
Successful? This is not a business, even though DC resembles it. Any event that is safe and gets people racing is a success. The fact that WDC "processes" more people does not, IMO, make them more successful. WDC fills up in 10 minutes, and Ripken events are filled with cars�so how is your argument competition?
My �ego� statement is not subject for argument, it is an opinion of mine as to why this conversation is taking place�and why fellow car enthusiast would want to hinder each others events.
| CamaroFS34 | 12-01-2004 04:04 PM |
long-winded, sorry
�
�
Ringthree, I suggest you think about what some other people here are saying. We're not all jaded. I've been autocrossing for over a decade now (that makes me feel old), and I first started autocrossing with the DC region in '94. At that time, Ernie Manzella was in charge of things, and he never made a big deal about the DC region events, never boasted about "how well run they were," never even insinuated that they were better than anyone else's events. However, the general sentiment of the DC area autocrossers was that the club was there to "serve them," and even trying to get them out to a work assignment was worse than trying to squeeze blood from a rock. The first attempt to institute a "DNW" rule (DSQ if you don't work) resulted in a huge editorial in the local autox tabloid "The Stopwatcher" about how it was an insult and an inconvenience to require participants to work. I and several other people would work 3 or 4 shifts at any event we went to, just to make sure the event went on. Meanwhile, plenty of people would run 1st heat and leave, sometimes to go to another event within an hour or two (usually Harrisburg). Others would show up just in time for the fourth heat, having just arrived from another event, and do you think they stayed around to help clean up? Perish the thought.
While the worker situation has since been somewhat resolved, and the run-by-class changes have eliminated most of the possibilities of running two events in the same day, the DC region is not the friendliest of regions to compete with, in general. Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of friendly faces there. But, frankly, I get tired of the Garfield sycophants who feel that Brian and his parents are the end-all-be-all of drivers and autocross chairs. I've run with a [i]lot[/i] of different regions, and there are plenty of things that other regions do better -- especially when it comes to making new people feel welcome. I also get tired of the "we run the biggest, best events in the country" line that is spouted by several (not all) of the Solo board and the aforementioned sycophants, when the reality is that 250 people with 4 runs means a lockstep, rigid structure that goes against the "Solo is supposed to be equal parts [i]fun[/i]..." line in the Solo II rulebook.
You do realize that the DC region is basically no longer part of the Metro Council, right? They decided that the Council was "small time," and if you've noticed, more and more of the DC region's events are "members only." The Council didn't want to change things to run by the DC region's "rules" (such as run-by-class) and so the region decided they didn't need the Council any longer, since they had FedEx Field, and could run a series on their own.
I know you're relatively new to the DC region autox scene, ringthree, which is why I'm laying this out for you. I've developed my opinion of the region over a long period of time and many experiences with them and how they compare to the myriad of other places I've run. You don't have to agree with me, but I figured a little history was in order.
Karen
While the worker situation has since been somewhat resolved, and the run-by-class changes have eliminated most of the possibilities of running two events in the same day, the DC region is not the friendliest of regions to compete with, in general. Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of friendly faces there. But, frankly, I get tired of the Garfield sycophants who feel that Brian and his parents are the end-all-be-all of drivers and autocross chairs. I've run with a [i]lot[/i] of different regions, and there are plenty of things that other regions do better -- especially when it comes to making new people feel welcome. I also get tired of the "we run the biggest, best events in the country" line that is spouted by several (not all) of the Solo board and the aforementioned sycophants, when the reality is that 250 people with 4 runs means a lockstep, rigid structure that goes against the "Solo is supposed to be equal parts [i]fun[/i]..." line in the Solo II rulebook.
You do realize that the DC region is basically no longer part of the Metro Council, right? They decided that the Council was "small time," and if you've noticed, more and more of the DC region's events are "members only." The Council didn't want to change things to run by the DC region's "rules" (such as run-by-class) and so the region decided they didn't need the Council any longer, since they had FedEx Field, and could run a series on their own.
I know you're relatively new to the DC region autox scene, ringthree, which is why I'm laying this out for you. I've developed my opinion of the region over a long period of time and many experiences with them and how they compare to the myriad of other places I've run. You don't have to agree with me, but I figured a little history was in order.
Karen
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 04:11 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]I speaking of any reagion in the North East.
Reading that e-mail from Jim makes it seem they had something better to do....[/QUOTE]
Seriously, then go back and read it again. He clearly stated that they found that the negatives of doing the national tour stop outweighed the benefits of just hosting an Eastern Championship.
Also that was a post on SCCAForums, not an e-mail. The negatives were not named because of the nature of the forum.
I know I am sounding like a jerk here, but I have seen several unfounded accusations against people I respect greatly for their hard work and support. To blame them for not wanting to do something that would have a negative impact is the same reason that other regions have choosen not to do it.
The entire northeast is without a national tour stop, the blame should not fall square upon the shoulders of the WDCR for that. As I said, I would love for a national tour stop at Fed-Ex, but I can understand why they would not host one if it would be detrimental to the WDCR.
I would also like to state that none of us have all the information we need to make a decision. But damning WDCR from the start just doesn't seem justified.
Reading that e-mail from Jim makes it seem they had something better to do....[/QUOTE]
Seriously, then go back and read it again. He clearly stated that they found that the negatives of doing the national tour stop outweighed the benefits of just hosting an Eastern Championship.
Also that was a post on SCCAForums, not an e-mail. The negatives were not named because of the nature of the forum.
I know I am sounding like a jerk here, but I have seen several unfounded accusations against people I respect greatly for their hard work and support. To blame them for not wanting to do something that would have a negative impact is the same reason that other regions have choosen not to do it.
The entire northeast is without a national tour stop, the blame should not fall square upon the shoulders of the WDCR for that. As I said, I would love for a national tour stop at Fed-Ex, but I can understand why they would not host one if it would be detrimental to the WDCR.
I would also like to state that none of us have all the information we need to make a decision. But damning WDCR from the start just doesn't seem justified.
| del105 | 12-01-2004 04:19 PM |
[QUOTE=ringthree]Seriously, then go back and read it again. He clearly stated that they found that the negatives of doing the national tour stop outweighed the benefits of just hosting an Eastern Championship.
Also that was a post on SCCAForums, not an e-mail. The negatives were not named because of the nature of the forum.
I know I am sounding like a jerk here, but I have seen several unfounded accusations against people I respect greatly for their hard work and support. To blame them for not wanting to do something that would have a negative impact is the same reason that other regions have choosen not to do it.
The entire northeast is without a national tour stop, the blame should not fall square upon the shoulders of the WDCR for that. As I said, I would love for a national tour stop at Fed-Ex, but I can understand why they would not host one if it would be detrimental to the WDCR.
I would also like to state that none of us have all the information we need to make a decision. But damning WDCR from the start just doesn't seem justified.[/QUOTE]
You keep saying the same thing over and over. Do you know the reason it would be so "detrimental" to the WDCR, or not? If there was an answer rather than the vague " it would be detrimental" maybe everyone would understand.
Also that was a post on SCCAForums, not an e-mail. The negatives were not named because of the nature of the forum.
I know I am sounding like a jerk here, but I have seen several unfounded accusations against people I respect greatly for their hard work and support. To blame them for not wanting to do something that would have a negative impact is the same reason that other regions have choosen not to do it.
The entire northeast is without a national tour stop, the blame should not fall square upon the shoulders of the WDCR for that. As I said, I would love for a national tour stop at Fed-Ex, but I can understand why they would not host one if it would be detrimental to the WDCR.
I would also like to state that none of us have all the information we need to make a decision. But damning WDCR from the start just doesn't seem justified.[/QUOTE]
You keep saying the same thing over and over. Do you know the reason it would be so "detrimental" to the WDCR, or not? If there was an answer rather than the vague " it would be detrimental" maybe everyone would understand.
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 04:30 PM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34]Ringthree, I suggest you think about what some other people here are saying. We're not all jaded. I've been autocrossing for over a decade now (that makes me feel old), and I first started autocrossing with the DC region in '94. At that time, Ernie Manzella was in charge of things, and he never made a big deal about the DC region events, never boasted about "how well run they were," never even insinuated that they were better than anyone else's events. However, the general sentiment of the DC area autocrossers was that the club was there to "serve them," and even trying to get them out to a work assignment was worse than trying to squeeze blood from a rock. The first attempt to institute a "DNW" rule (DSQ if you don't work) resulted in a huge editorial in the local autox tabloid "The Stopwatcher" about how it was an insult and an inconvenience to require participants to work. I and several other people would work 3 or 4 shifts at any event we went to, just to make sure the event went on. Meanwhile, plenty of people would run 1st heat and leave, sometimes to go to another event within an hour or two (usually Harrisburg). Others would show up just in time for the fourth heat, having just arrived from another event, and do you think they stayed around to help clean up? Perish the thought.
While the worker situation has since been somewhat resolved, and the run-by-class changes have eliminated most of the possibilities of running two events in the same day, the DC region is not the friendliest of regions to compete with, in general. Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of friendly faces there. But, frankly, I get tired of the Garfield sycophants who feel that Brian and his parents are the end-all-be-all of drivers and autocross chairs. I've run with a [i]lot[/i] of different regions, and there are plenty of things that other regions do better -- especially when it comes to making new people feel welcome. I also get tired of the "we run the biggest, best events in the country" line that is spouted by several (not all) of the Solo board and the aforementioned sycophants, when the reality is that 250 people with 4 runs means a lockstep, rigid structure that goes against the "Solo is supposed to be equal parts [i]fun[/i]..." line in the Solo II rulebook.
You do realize that the DC region is basically no longer part of the Metro Council, right? They decided that the Council was "small time," and if you've noticed, more and more of the DC region's events are "members only." The Council didn't want to change things to run by the DC region's "rules" (such as run-by-class) and so the region decided they didn't need the Council any longer, since they had FedEx Field, and could run a series on their own.
I know you're relatively new to the DC region autox scene, ringthree, which is why I'm laying this out for you. I've developed my opinion of the region over a long period of time and many experiences with them and how they compare to the myriad of other places I've run. You don't have to agree with me, but I figured a little history was in order.
Karen[/QUOTE]
Wow, just wow.
I am new (last couple of years) and I am wondering when the last time you went to an event was (and actually paid attention to the differences...)
History is definitely relevent within context, as I haven't seen any of the problems you have complained about. (Not to mention that your statement about the Garfield's sychophants shows that you do have a jaded view, as the comment was inappropriate and insulting).
There are several issues here in which you show your lack of contemporary context. Non-workers are disqualified, period. Members only? If you mean SCCA members only then yes (and that is only for two events). Council and the WDCR have shared events. The Council and the WDCR are two seperate entities now but are capable of coordinating their events (and have for several years).
It seems that you have some personal issues here, as the current evidence does not support your claims.
I can say again that I would love to have a national tour stop here, but its not convienent for you to hear that. You would prefer that we were just plain evil and out to screw everyone else.
I have been treated well in my short time autocrossing in the WDCR, events are run amazingly well and their is always support and help whenever it is needed. But what would I know, I am only a noob...
While the worker situation has since been somewhat resolved, and the run-by-class changes have eliminated most of the possibilities of running two events in the same day, the DC region is not the friendliest of regions to compete with, in general. Don't get me wrong -- there are plenty of friendly faces there. But, frankly, I get tired of the Garfield sycophants who feel that Brian and his parents are the end-all-be-all of drivers and autocross chairs. I've run with a [i]lot[/i] of different regions, and there are plenty of things that other regions do better -- especially when it comes to making new people feel welcome. I also get tired of the "we run the biggest, best events in the country" line that is spouted by several (not all) of the Solo board and the aforementioned sycophants, when the reality is that 250 people with 4 runs means a lockstep, rigid structure that goes against the "Solo is supposed to be equal parts [i]fun[/i]..." line in the Solo II rulebook.
You do realize that the DC region is basically no longer part of the Metro Council, right? They decided that the Council was "small time," and if you've noticed, more and more of the DC region's events are "members only." The Council didn't want to change things to run by the DC region's "rules" (such as run-by-class) and so the region decided they didn't need the Council any longer, since they had FedEx Field, and could run a series on their own.
I know you're relatively new to the DC region autox scene, ringthree, which is why I'm laying this out for you. I've developed my opinion of the region over a long period of time and many experiences with them and how they compare to the myriad of other places I've run. You don't have to agree with me, but I figured a little history was in order.
Karen[/QUOTE]
Wow, just wow.
I am new (last couple of years) and I am wondering when the last time you went to an event was (and actually paid attention to the differences...)
History is definitely relevent within context, as I haven't seen any of the problems you have complained about. (Not to mention that your statement about the Garfield's sychophants shows that you do have a jaded view, as the comment was inappropriate and insulting).
There are several issues here in which you show your lack of contemporary context. Non-workers are disqualified, period. Members only? If you mean SCCA members only then yes (and that is only for two events). Council and the WDCR have shared events. The Council and the WDCR are two seperate entities now but are capable of coordinating their events (and have for several years).
It seems that you have some personal issues here, as the current evidence does not support your claims.
I can say again that I would love to have a national tour stop here, but its not convienent for you to hear that. You would prefer that we were just plain evil and out to screw everyone else.
I have been treated well in my short time autocrossing in the WDCR, events are run amazingly well and their is always support and help whenever it is needed. But what would I know, I am only a noob...
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 04:34 PM |
[QUOTE=del105]You keep saying the same thing over and over. Do you know the reason it would be so "detrimental" to the WDCR, or not? If there was an answer rather than the vague " it would be detrimental" maybe everyone would understand.[/QUOTE]
As I stated, no. But I dont start from the assumption that the WDCR are egotistical synchophants, which seems to be the trendy thing to do...
I also stated that if you wanted to know what the negatives were, then you should send and e-mail to Jim Howard to find out what they are, but again, why would you do that when you can just assume that everyone in the WDCR are meanies!
As I stated, no. But I dont start from the assumption that the WDCR are egotistical synchophants, which seems to be the trendy thing to do...
I also stated that if you wanted to know what the negatives were, then you should send and e-mail to Jim Howard to find out what they are, but again, why would you do that when you can just assume that everyone in the WDCR are meanies!
| ringthree | 12-01-2004 04:39 PM |
[QUOTE=rockt104]Successful? This is not a business, even though DC resembles it. Any event that is safe and gets people racing is a success. The fact that WDC "processes" more people does not, IMO, make them more successful. WDC fills up in 10 minutes, and Ripken events are filled with cars�so how is your argument competition?
My �ego� statement is not subject for argument, it is an opinion of mine as to why this conversation is taking place�and why fellow car enthusiast would want to hinder each others events.[/QUOTE]
Selective quoting, thats great for constructive dialogue. Perhaps you can go back and respond to the reasoning behind my statements rather than just cutting them out.
I suppose you are allowed to have whatever assumptions you want about the WDCR. So far I have heard they are egotistical, "region-squeltching" synchophants. These are wonderful assumptions, as they are logical and completely based in reality. :rolleyes:
My �ego� statement is not subject for argument, it is an opinion of mine as to why this conversation is taking place�and why fellow car enthusiast would want to hinder each others events.[/QUOTE]
Selective quoting, thats great for constructive dialogue. Perhaps you can go back and respond to the reasoning behind my statements rather than just cutting them out.
I suppose you are allowed to have whatever assumptions you want about the WDCR. So far I have heard they are egotistical, "region-squeltching" synchophants. These are wonderful assumptions, as they are logical and completely based in reality. :rolleyes:
| DrBiggly | 12-01-2004 04:49 PM |
[QUOTE=AUTOwrXER] I don't care how people feel about it; If you are jeopardizing one of my event sites then you can go to hell.
Joel[/QUOTE]
Amen! Competitors can keep their heads on around the sites, and if they can't then they are subject to the rules of the road just like the ricers. The law doesn't exclude autoxers. :)
Joel[/QUOTE]
Amen! Competitors can keep their heads on around the sites, and if they can't then they are subject to the rules of the road just like the ricers. The law doesn't exclude autoxers. :)
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét