| DILLIGAF Racing | 10-19-2005 11:08 PM |
yeah, they can be made to be very fast, but they are heavy pigs. Trouble slowing down and turning.
| kkam030 | 10-20-2005 12:26 AM |
agreed
| psyber_0ptix | 10-20-2005 12:42 AM |
vr4 = EXTREMELY expensive tranny
| Mach V Dan | 10-20-2005 12:47 AM |
The daily driver:
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/fastwrx_1865_18089355[/img]
The track car:
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/machevo_1865_2489425[/img]
Okay, so the Evo is not really a "dedicated" track car, as much as it seems to only get driven at the track lately.
That orange GC looks badass!
--Dan
Mach V
[url=www.fastwrx.com]FastWRX.com[/url]
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/fastwrx_1865_18089355[/img]
The track car:
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/machevo_1865_2489425[/img]
Okay, so the Evo is not really a "dedicated" track car, as much as it seems to only get driven at the track lately.
That orange GC looks badass!
--Dan
Mach V
[url=www.fastwrx.com]FastWRX.com[/url]
| MBasile | 10-20-2005 01:10 AM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen]Oh, you mean the one that weighs a bazillion pounds, has a bunch of techno-crap loaded onto it that is horribly unreliable, has seriously undersized brakes if you plan to track the car, etc etc? VR4s are nice and all, but a good dedicated track car it certainly is not.
Pat[/QUOTE]
yeah, I owned a stealth before the suby, so I'm used to the cars...but I still love em...just a personal interest of mine :D
I'm also not the kind of person thats like "oh my god I have to get 1st place and be the best on the track!" its just a fun little hobby...I do it for fun, not for points
Pat[/QUOTE]
yeah, I owned a stealth before the suby, so I'm used to the cars...but I still love em...just a personal interest of mine :D
I'm also not the kind of person thats like "oh my god I have to get 1st place and be the best on the track!" its just a fun little hobby...I do it for fun, not for points
| Sean | 10-20-2005 01:56 AM |
[b]Daily Driver #1:[/b]
[img]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/albums/20040809-02-TMR-Plaistow_Test_Track/20040809_190933_TMR_Plaistow_Test_Track_DWC768.jpg[/img]
[b]Daily Driver #2 (needs a new motor):[/b]
[img]http://www.inertramblings.com/Scrapbook/Miscellaneous/20040307_001_Legacy_L_DWC768.sized.jpg[/img]
[b]"Track" Car:[/b]
[img]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/photos/d/147-1/2005-MFR-SD-762PGT-Pete_Kuncis-03.jpg[/img]
[size=1][url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url][/size]
[img]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/albums/20040809-02-TMR-Plaistow_Test_Track/20040809_190933_TMR_Plaistow_Test_Track_DWC768.jpg[/img]
[b]Daily Driver #2 (needs a new motor):[/b]
[img]http://www.inertramblings.com/Scrapbook/Miscellaneous/20040307_001_Legacy_L_DWC768.sized.jpg[/img]
[b]"Track" Car:[/b]
[img]http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/photos/d/147-1/2005-MFR-SD-762PGT-Pete_Kuncis-03.jpg[/img]
[size=1][url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url][/size]
| flyboymike | 10-20-2005 09:34 AM |
[QUOTE=Mach V Dan]
The track car:
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/machevo_1865_2489425[/img]
Okay, so the Evo is not really a "dedicated" track car, as much as it seems to only get driven at the track lately.
That orange GC looks badass!
--Dan
Mach V
[url=www.fastwrx.com]FastWRX.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Whoa! You running afterburners on the Evo? Nice pic.
The track car:
[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/machevo_1865_2489425[/img]
Okay, so the Evo is not really a "dedicated" track car, as much as it seems to only get driven at the track lately.
That orange GC looks badass!
--Dan
Mach V
[url=www.fastwrx.com]FastWRX.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Whoa! You running afterburners on the Evo? Nice pic.
| flyboymike | 10-20-2005 09:35 AM |
Does anyone here run a Spec RX-7? Its based on the Spec Miata concept, but for first generation RX-7's. It looks like a lot of fun.
| Butt Dyno | 10-20-2005 10:40 AM |
[QUOTE=flyboymike]Does anyone here run a Spec RX-7? Its based on the Spec Miata concept, but for first generation RX-7's. It looks like a lot of fun.[/QUOTE]
Some guy just sold a fully built/working SRX7 for $4500 with a bunch of spares. Seems like a REALLY cheap way to find a track car.
Some guy just sold a fully built/working SRX7 for $4500 with a bunch of spares. Seems like a REALLY cheap way to find a track car.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 10-20-2005 12:08 PM |
Hello,
Yeah, but have you ever been at the track when one of those things drive by? I hate SRX7, if for nothing else, for the 150 db noise they make! They are for sure the loudest and slowest race cars you'll ever find! And I think 20+ year old rotaries are going to need constant maintenance. The SMs can run forever without any work. Barry Hartzel used to drive to all his races in his Miata, set course records, kick butt, and drive home. Of course, that was before the $6k 50 hour motors, but since I think those are on their way out...
Joel
Yeah, but have you ever been at the track when one of those things drive by? I hate SRX7, if for nothing else, for the 150 db noise they make! They are for sure the loudest and slowest race cars you'll ever find! And I think 20+ year old rotaries are going to need constant maintenance. The SMs can run forever without any work. Barry Hartzel used to drive to all his races in his Miata, set course records, kick butt, and drive home. Of course, that was before the $6k 50 hour motors, but since I think those are on their way out...
Joel
| endeavor | 10-20-2005 01:43 PM |
I think I am going to put the Miata on my birthday list. I'll try and look for one that I want next year after I move back to CA (assuming I have any money left :lol: ). I have NO idea if the car with the level of preperation I want exists:
- I need something that's more or less street legal since I don't have a tow vehicle (plus I'd like a 'vert to drive around in summer);
- a fun, LOCALLY competitive DSP car;
- and SM legal mods (doesn't need to be all the way to spec, but I wouldn't want DSP mods done that are BEYOND the SM allowances).
- fun track car for non-SM HPDEs.
Preferrably I want a lightly modded car that I can use for autox and track days for a year so I can get used to it and then if I want I can finish any missing pieces of the Spec and go racing for real. It would probably be fun buy a bone stock car and do some of the prep myself but it's easy to see why that wouldn't be the most cost/time efficient.
- I need something that's more or less street legal since I don't have a tow vehicle (plus I'd like a 'vert to drive around in summer);
- a fun, LOCALLY competitive DSP car;
- and SM legal mods (doesn't need to be all the way to spec, but I wouldn't want DSP mods done that are BEYOND the SM allowances).
- fun track car for non-SM HPDEs.
Preferrably I want a lightly modded car that I can use for autox and track days for a year so I can get used to it and then if I want I can finish any missing pieces of the Spec and go racing for real. It would probably be fun buy a bone stock car and do some of the prep myself but it's easy to see why that wouldn't be the most cost/time efficient.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 10-20-2005 01:47 PM |
Hello,
The downside to a racecar that you want to use as "a 'vert to drive around in summer" is that a racecar has a rollcage. If it's a good cage, it's a pain in the butt to get through and into and may have bars going across where there was a passenger seat, etc.
:p
Plus, you might bonk your head on the bars and get hurt...
Joel
The downside to a racecar that you want to use as "a 'vert to drive around in summer" is that a racecar has a rollcage. If it's a good cage, it's a pain in the butt to get through and into and may have bars going across where there was a passenger seat, etc.
:p
Plus, you might bonk your head on the bars and get hurt...
Joel
| endeavor | 10-20-2005 01:53 PM |
Yup. And I think the full cage makes it not street legal, but I'm not positive about that. So I was thinking that if I bought a stock car I would have a cage shop just put in the rollbar for that first year, then when I'm ready to actually do SM races I could have them finish up the cage. Assuming that's sound from an engineering standpoint.
EDIT: Actually this the main reason why I wouldn't want to buy a fully prepped Spec Miata. I think the rest of the other parts that wouldn't be street legal, like the exhaust, are more managable than a full cage :(
EDIT: Actually this the main reason why I wouldn't want to buy a fully prepped Spec Miata. I think the rest of the other parts that wouldn't be street legal, like the exhaust, are more managable than a full cage :(
| trhoppe | 10-20-2005 02:22 PM |
Yea, we are driving our race car to the shop to do work on it. It was fun like twice. Now getting in and out through the cage, strapping in, etc sucks. Plus the fact that I have tubing less then a foot from my head.
-Tom
-Tom
| endeavor | 10-20-2005 02:49 PM |
I do remember hearing about some guy driving his fully caged car (I think it might have actually been a Miata) to the track. He wasn't wearing a helmet, some lady pulled out in front of him, minor fender bender, but he hits his head on the bar and dies.... But for all I know that could be an urban myth.
| asquaredrex | 10-20-2005 02:58 PM |
Yes, driving a caged car w/ a 5-point sucks on the road. I drove from Boston to Mt. Tremblant earlier in the year and that has to have been one of the worst rides ever. It gets old real fast. With regards to safety, I couldn't comment.
| trhoppe | 10-20-2005 03:30 PM |
And people are bitching at us that we don't drive the T2 car to the Subaru Challenge (I don't want to tow with the hurricane looming, wouldn't be fun to tow in 30mph crosswinds) The drivers seat has almost a foot to the bar, the pass seat, you are practically touching the bar with your head since the seat is so much higher :lol:
-Tom
-Tom
| DILLIGAF Racing | 10-20-2005 04:32 PM |
[QUOTE=flyboymike]Does anyone here run a Spec RX-7? Its based on the Spec Miata concept, but for first generation RX-7's. It looks like a lot of fun.[/QUOTE]My friend started his racing career in a ITA RX-7....I would advise against it. If you do buy one, look into getting EVERY bit of info on the motor that you can find, and read up. That car was a nightmare
| Sean | 10-20-2005 04:52 PM |
[QUOTE=endeavor]Yup. And I think the full cage makes it not street legal, but I'm not positive about that.[/QUOTE]
It's street legal; it's just not safe without a helmet. With that said I'm an idiot and occasionally daily drive the rally car since the Explorer gets such sucky gas mileage.
[size=1][url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url][/size]
It's street legal; it's just not safe without a helmet. With that said I'm an idiot and occasionally daily drive the rally car since the Explorer gets such sucky gas mileage.
[size=1][url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url][/size]
| Silverrex04 | 10-21-2005 08:17 AM |
I have a 90' Civic Si hatch that is more or less prepared like an ITA car. It is still street legal with AC and the 2 watt radio. My wife had a 95' Miata for track that was an absolute blast to drive eventhough it was a slug on the straights.
There is nothing like driving the Miata and sticking to the tail of an E36 M3 all the way up the cut through for the North Course at VIR. I kept seeing the guy looking back at me in his mirror. I could tell he was wondering why I was still there.
There is nothing like driving the Miata and sticking to the tail of an E36 M3 all the way up the cut through for the North Course at VIR. I kept seeing the guy looking back at me in his mirror. I could tell he was wondering why I was still there.
| PA04STI | 10-21-2005 12:54 PM |
Sometimes ebay has some nice track vehicles in their "Other Vehicle" section there is the "Race Car" section.
Here:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Dodge-Viper-Competition-Coupe_W0QQitemZ4583199386QQcategoryZ98064QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
just joking a little too expensive!!!!!
This would be a fun car:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-Volkswagen-Sciracco_W0QQitemZ4583869919QQcategoryZ80766QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
(Do u remember the one at Beaverun that does the auto Xs is was pretty sweet and did really well)
Here:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Dodge-Viper-Competition-Coupe_W0QQitemZ4583199386QQcategoryZ98064QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
just joking a little too expensive!!!!!
This would be a fun car:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-Volkswagen-Sciracco_W0QQitemZ4583869919QQcategoryZ80766QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]
(Do u remember the one at Beaverun that does the auto Xs is was pretty sweet and did really well)
| JoshP | 10-21-2005 12:55 PM |
most of you have none suby track cars :(
| mav1c | 10-21-2005 01:44 PM |
I do! Getting the roll bar and Sparcos installed sometime over the winter.
[img]http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/Summit%20(15).jpg[/img]
[img]http://members.cox.net/midnightstangz/Summit%20(15).jpg[/img]
| flyboymike | 10-21-2005 02:52 PM |
[QUOTE=DILLIGAF Racing]My friend started his racing career in a ITA RX-7....I would advise against it. If you do buy one, look into getting EVERY bit of info on the motor that you can find, and read up. That car was a nightmare[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the advice. I'm a long, long way away from being able to have a second car just for the track. When the time comes, it'll probably be a shifter kart anyway. It sounds like the costs shrink exponentially, especially with not having to buy a second vehicle for towing.
Thanks for the advice. I'm a long, long way away from being able to have a second car just for the track. When the time comes, it'll probably be a shifter kart anyway. It sounds like the costs shrink exponentially, especially with not having to buy a second vehicle for towing.
| flyboymike | 10-21-2005 02:53 PM |
[QUOTE=Sean]It's street legal; it's just not safe without a helmet. With that said I'm an idiot and occasionally daily drive the rally car since the Explorer gets such sucky gas mileage.
[size=1][url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url][/size][/QUOTE]
Racecar gas mileage > SUV gas mileage... you've got to love that :)
[size=1][url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/][img]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/img][/url] [url=http://www.clutchdrop.com/]NESIC Web Site[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]Trunkmonkey FAQ[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Trunkmonkey Racing[/url] | [url=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/gallery/Trunkmonkeys/]Trunkmonkeys in Action[/url][/size][/QUOTE]
Racecar gas mileage > SUV gas mileage... you've got to love that :)
| turboICE | 10-21-2005 03:02 PM |
[QUOTE=Joel Gat, 1.8L] It also means that the $5-6k motors are probably done. With them not being legal in the Pro series and not very logical for the club racing series... buh bye. Which means the cost of Club Racing Spec Miatas just dropped by about $5-6k. Welcome back the days of 100k miles old junkyard motors, maybe even?[/QUOTE]Not likely. $5k+ motors are prevelant throughout club racing Rebello and Sunbelt motors are available and utilized for just about every front running IT car out there - once they exist and work they never go away people keep buying them. We are talking about classes that have no hope of National status and the only way to take a car national from IT is to go Production or GT and people still buy them in Regional racing. The only way you can be sure not to have to run against them is to go to a sealed motor series - and you aren't going to get there with sponsorship unless you came up through the $5k+ motor series. And who would want to run a series that requires tires that can't survive qualifying and a sprint race anyway?
Bad drivers get these engines because they think they are only slow because they don't have the "best" and that it is all they really need to become faster, and fast drivers - well fast drivers still drive fast cars faster than slow ones...
Bad drivers get these engines because they think they are only slow because they don't have the "best" and that it is all they really need to become faster, and fast drivers - well fast drivers still drive fast cars faster than slow ones...
| endeavor | 10-21-2005 03:36 PM |
How much extra HP are these motors putting out over stock?
| turboICE | 10-21-2005 03:40 PM |
Depends on the engine, builder, tune and class - but supposedly a Rebello KA24E built to IT max is around 190 HP. Stock is 140HP. It is pretty easy to get them to 170HP with the basics (balancing, .5 CR increase, porting, exhaust, timing, etc) anyway.
But it really doesn't matter - there are those in club racing that would go a long way for another 5HP. No amount of rules tweaking that doesn't either factory seal the motor, mandate a specific max whp to weight or has REWARDS weight will prevent people that have money from throwing it at their cars and usually the engine since all their glory and woes are supposedly directly tied to how much they spent on their engines.
But it really doesn't matter - there are those in club racing that would go a long way for another 5HP. No amount of rules tweaking that doesn't either factory seal the motor, mandate a specific max whp to weight or has REWARDS weight will prevent people that have money from throwing it at their cars and usually the engine since all their glory and woes are supposedly directly tied to how much they spent on their engines.
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 10-21-2005 04:01 PM |
Hello,
Well, wait, turboICE is not talking about engines that are not allowed to be blue printed or balanced. Spec Miata does not allow any engine work. So the motors, at best, can be parts-binned blueprinted (ie, buy 100 pistons, 100 rods, etc., and match them as closely as possible).
Generally speaking, a good, brand new crate motors for Spec Miata makes 110-117 hp at the wheels (assuming the supporting intake, exhaust, etc., are all optimized). A Sunbelt, Rebello, or other $5-6k motor will make about 117-122 hp at the wheels.
If a person does a decent rebuild, holding everything to the correct end of the legal tolerances, most ordinary, non-pro engine builders can get the high end of the crate motor range out of their motors - so there are plenty of people in the 115-117 range. That means that the pro motors get you 2-7 hp, which works out to about 5 hp on the average.
That's pretty significant in that two identical drivers with 5 hp difference will notice the power difference. But it is not enough to let a mid-pack driver get to the front. IE, if you're battling in the front, then you need a motor to beat another front-runner. If you're battling in the middle, the motor will only let you edge out another guy in the middle...
Joel
Well, wait, turboICE is not talking about engines that are not allowed to be blue printed or balanced. Spec Miata does not allow any engine work. So the motors, at best, can be parts-binned blueprinted (ie, buy 100 pistons, 100 rods, etc., and match them as closely as possible).
Generally speaking, a good, brand new crate motors for Spec Miata makes 110-117 hp at the wheels (assuming the supporting intake, exhaust, etc., are all optimized). A Sunbelt, Rebello, or other $5-6k motor will make about 117-122 hp at the wheels.
If a person does a decent rebuild, holding everything to the correct end of the legal tolerances, most ordinary, non-pro engine builders can get the high end of the crate motor range out of their motors - so there are plenty of people in the 115-117 range. That means that the pro motors get you 2-7 hp, which works out to about 5 hp on the average.
That's pretty significant in that two identical drivers with 5 hp difference will notice the power difference. But it is not enough to let a mid-pack driver get to the front. IE, if you're battling in the front, then you need a motor to beat another front-runner. If you're battling in the middle, the motor will only let you edge out another guy in the middle...
Joel
| turboICE | 10-21-2005 04:06 PM |
Yep that is exactly where I was going.
[QUOTE=turboICE]But it really doesn't matter - there are those in club racing that would go a long way for another 5HP.[/QUOTE]
Nothing is going to stop anyone from chasing that 5HP whether it is warranted to chase it or not. The guy that comes in 10th would still feel better if he could come up with a way to come in 8th and if he has more money than skill he will spend the currency that he has.
[QUOTE=turboICE]But it really doesn't matter - there are those in club racing that would go a long way for another 5HP.[/QUOTE]
Nothing is going to stop anyone from chasing that 5HP whether it is warranted to chase it or not. The guy that comes in 10th would still feel better if he could come up with a way to come in 8th and if he has more money than skill he will spend the currency that he has.
| shanenlorenz | 10-21-2005 04:58 PM |
Track Car:
[IMG]http://www.stifiles.com/shanes/G3D6379.sized.jpg[/IMG]
Autocross Car (wife driving):
[IMG]http://www.stifiles.com/shanes/whites2k_2.sized.jpg[/IMG]
Daily Driver:
[IMG]http://www.stifiles.com/shanes/IMG_4926.sized.jpg[/IMG]
The miata makes a awesome track car, it is super cheap to run. I can usually get buy on a tank of 91 octane gas for a whole day at the track. Pads/rotors still have plenty of meat after a year of use, since you dont really brake in a stock miata. Set of shaved R compounds can last you a good portion of the year.
-shane
[url]http://www.stifiles.com/[/url]
[IMG]http://www.stifiles.com/shanes/G3D6379.sized.jpg[/IMG]
Autocross Car (wife driving):
[IMG]http://www.stifiles.com/shanes/whites2k_2.sized.jpg[/IMG]
Daily Driver:
[IMG]http://www.stifiles.com/shanes/IMG_4926.sized.jpg[/IMG]
The miata makes a awesome track car, it is super cheap to run. I can usually get buy on a tank of 91 octane gas for a whole day at the track. Pads/rotors still have plenty of meat after a year of use, since you dont really brake in a stock miata. Set of shaved R compounds can last you a good portion of the year.
-shane
[url]http://www.stifiles.com/[/url]
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