| sdecker | 05-26-2004 02:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gotsol [/i]
[B]Awesome Joel, good luck.
Maybe I can get a ride sometime.
What are you doing with your WRX?
Patrick D'auria [/B][/QUOTE]
By the way, Patrick -- nice writeup in GRM. Just noticed it today. :D
[B]Awesome Joel, good luck.
Maybe I can get a ride sometime.
What are you doing with your WRX?
Patrick D'auria [/B][/QUOTE]
By the way, Patrick -- nice writeup in GRM. Just noticed it today. :D
| AUTOwrXER | 05-26-2004 05:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gotsol[/i]
[B] Awesome Joel, good luck.
Maybe I can get a ride sometime.
What are you doing with your WRX?
Patrick D'auria [/B][/QUOTE]
Sold it on Sunday. I'll miss her, but it was time to move on...
[B] Awesome Joel, good luck.
Maybe I can get a ride sometime.
What are you doing with your WRX?
Patrick D'auria [/B][/QUOTE]
Sold it on Sunday. I'll miss her, but it was time to move on...
| AUTOwrXER | 05-26-2004 05:54 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx[/i]
[B]
See you at Nats. Look me up in DSP. I'll be fighting on another front - against the BMW crowd. :) However, if I beat your raw ESP time, you owe me a beer, ok? :alien:
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Deal. That beer will be poured at Baby Dolls, mind you. I wonder if Tom's favorite dancer can join us :D It took at $20 bonus for our waitress to entice her last time :lol:
[B]
See you at Nats. Look me up in DSP. I'll be fighting on another front - against the BMW crowd. :) However, if I beat your raw ESP time, you owe me a beer, ok? :alien:
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Deal. That beer will be poured at Baby Dolls, mind you. I wonder if Tom's favorite dancer can join us :D It took at $20 bonus for our waitress to entice her last time :lol:
| AUTOwrXER | 05-26-2004 05:58 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scoobie Doogie[/i]
[B] Joel,
Have you notice if the front diff pulls the car through turns? I have driven the 04 STi and it feels "funky" to say the least. Have you driven both 04 and 05?
Rumor has it that you can stuff 275's under the stock fenders of the STi. Has anyone tried that yet?
I am a bit curious about the 05 STi's improvements.
Dave [/B][/QUOTE]
I haven't had the chance to drive it at that level yet, and probably won't until the first autocross after the break-in period. Generally I wouldn't need the front lsd with my street driving style as I'm pretty much a pansy around town.
Regarding the tires, I think Fine had 275s on the stock (7.5") '04 wheels without rubbing.
Joel
[B] Joel,
Have you notice if the front diff pulls the car through turns? I have driven the 04 STi and it feels "funky" to say the least. Have you driven both 04 and 05?
Rumor has it that you can stuff 275's under the stock fenders of the STi. Has anyone tried that yet?
I am a bit curious about the 05 STi's improvements.
Dave [/B][/QUOTE]
I haven't had the chance to drive it at that level yet, and probably won't until the first autocross after the break-in period. Generally I wouldn't need the front lsd with my street driving style as I'm pretty much a pansy around town.
Regarding the tires, I think Fine had 275s on the stock (7.5") '04 wheels without rubbing.
Joel
| AUTOwrXER | 05-26-2004 06:05 PM |
WRX_Mundi,
I agree with many of your comments, and it's a shame that you can't post anything to SCCAForums or the Evo list without being flammed excessively.
I was actually hoping that the SEB would put the STi and Evo in FS, as they truely are the new pony cars. The Camaro is dead, and the new Mustang may be able to compete...
On another note, one of the Evo posts today said something about the BSP move being delayed until '05 in the July Fastrack. I'm trying to bring the July edition up now but it's not opening for some reason. Anyone know wnaything about that?
It's off to the shop now to scale the car and fix the crappy factory alignment. I'll post corner weight when I have them.
Joel
I agree with many of your comments, and it's a shame that you can't post anything to SCCAForums or the Evo list without being flammed excessively.
I was actually hoping that the SEB would put the STi and Evo in FS, as they truely are the new pony cars. The Camaro is dead, and the new Mustang may be able to compete...
On another note, one of the Evo posts today said something about the BSP move being delayed until '05 in the July Fastrack. I'm trying to bring the July edition up now but it's not opening for some reason. Anyone know wnaything about that?
It's off to the shop now to scale the car and fix the crappy factory alignment. I'll post corner weight when I have them.
Joel
| AUTOwrXER | 05-26-2004 06:08 PM |
Just got Fastrack up, and after a quick scan I can't find any SP items at all...
| afpdl | 05-26-2004 06:15 PM |
It just reitterates the proposal to move the evo and sti to bsp on 1/1/05.
| KC | 05-26-2004 06:23 PM |
It was in the June Fastrack.
--kC
--kC
| afpdl | 05-26-2004 06:24 PM |
Oh yeah sorry.
| WRX_Mundi | 05-26-2004 08:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AUTOwrXER [/i]
[B]I was actually hoping that the SEB would put the STi and Evo in FS, as they truely are the new pony cars. The Camaro is dead, and the new Mustang may be able to compete...[/B][/QUOTE]I wouldn't go that far -- I do think the Evo/STi's have a much better suspension from the factory than the pony cars. SP lets them fix a lot. Even the Mustang Cobra gets put in AS (and goes to ESP). I don't know enough about the new Mustang other than for once I like the way it looks from the outside.
[QUOTE]On another note, one of the Evo posts today said something about the BSP move being delayed until '05 in the July Fastrack. I'm trying to bring the July edition up now but it's not opening for some reason. Anyone know wnaything about that?[/QUOTE] As others have said, it is the June Fastrack. Also make sure you read the paragraph above the proposal carefully. I've received many emails from local members saying "You're getting moved to BSP next year -- done deal!" and have to explain it to them. I [i]probably[/i] am, but it isn't a done deal. I'm almost certain the deadline for an instant move has passed, so we're in ESP for all of '04. The proposal is so that if ESP gets stomped by Evos and STis at nationals in the dry, they can get the move accomplished right away. They'd feel [i]really[/i] stupid if they didn't do the proposal, the Japanese cars crushed everyone, then they couldn't even move them until '06. This is also a message to owners that if they spend $40k on ESP mods, come to nationals and win ESP, they should expect to get moved and certainly don't come crying to the SEB that there was no notice.
[B]I was actually hoping that the SEB would put the STi and Evo in FS, as they truely are the new pony cars. The Camaro is dead, and the new Mustang may be able to compete...[/B][/QUOTE]I wouldn't go that far -- I do think the Evo/STi's have a much better suspension from the factory than the pony cars. SP lets them fix a lot. Even the Mustang Cobra gets put in AS (and goes to ESP). I don't know enough about the new Mustang other than for once I like the way it looks from the outside.
[QUOTE]On another note, one of the Evo posts today said something about the BSP move being delayed until '05 in the July Fastrack. I'm trying to bring the July edition up now but it's not opening for some reason. Anyone know wnaything about that?[/QUOTE] As others have said, it is the June Fastrack. Also make sure you read the paragraph above the proposal carefully. I've received many emails from local members saying "You're getting moved to BSP next year -- done deal!" and have to explain it to them. I [i]probably[/i] am, but it isn't a done deal. I'm almost certain the deadline for an instant move has passed, so we're in ESP for all of '04. The proposal is so that if ESP gets stomped by Evos and STis at nationals in the dry, they can get the move accomplished right away. They'd feel [i]really[/i] stupid if they didn't do the proposal, the Japanese cars crushed everyone, then they couldn't even move them until '06. This is also a message to owners that if they spend $40k on ESP mods, come to nationals and win ESP, they should expect to get moved and certainly don't come crying to the SEB that there was no notice.
| AUTOwrXER | 05-27-2004 12:50 AM |
OK here's some info from tonight as promised.
Corner Weights - Stock 2005 STi - no driver
Spare tire, jack, trunk carpet and tire cover removed. Washer fluid full, rear water tank (intercooler spray) 1/2, Gas tank almost entirely full (30.2 miles since fill up). All tires at 40 psi. Factory (crap) alignment - more details on this to follow:
972 962
667 645
total = 3246
right = 1607 = 49.5%
rear = 1312 = 40.4%
cross = 1628 = 50.2%
Everything same as above, but with me in the car:
1043 991
740 667
total = 3443
right = 1657 = 48.2%
rear = 1407 = 40.9%
cross = 1728 = 50.2%
Corner Weights - Stock 2005 STi - no driver
Spare tire, jack, trunk carpet and tire cover removed. Washer fluid full, rear water tank (intercooler spray) 1/2, Gas tank almost entirely full (30.2 miles since fill up). All tires at 40 psi. Factory (crap) alignment - more details on this to follow:
972 962
667 645
total = 3246
right = 1607 = 49.5%
rear = 1312 = 40.4%
cross = 1628 = 50.2%
Everything same as above, but with me in the car:
1043 991
740 667
total = 3443
right = 1657 = 48.2%
rear = 1407 = 40.9%
cross = 1728 = 50.2%
| AUTOwrXER | 05-27-2004 01:00 AM |
The alignment as delivered was terrible. I could see by looking at it that is was off. I'm sure this had an impact on the corner weights, but I don't have enough experience with before and after alignment scaling to say how much it would throw the numbers off. Obviously, the total weight would stay the same, but the corners could change.
LF RF
0.5 degree -0.1 degree
4.2 caster 4.1 caster
-0.18 deg toe 0.13 deg toe
LR RR
-1.2 deg -1.7 deg
0.01 toe -0.15 toe
We made all the changes we could, maxing out front adjustment to negative camber, but the rear cant be changed to go more positive. Here's where we wound up:
LF RF
-0.7 deg -1.0 deg
4.2 caster 4.1 caster
-0.05 deg toe -0.04 deg toe
LR RR
-1.2 deg -1.6 deg
-0.02 deg toe -0.01 deg toe
I was a bit disappointed in the rear camber situation and the inability to get more than one degree negative up front. Of course, this won't be a problem in SP, but I thought you AS guys would like to know.
One thing I will say after driving around for a bit now, is that the steering rack is much quicker than the other Scoobys. No more Yoga excercises to prepare for the slaloms!
Goodnight, and I look forward to seeing some of you in DC this weekend.
Joel
LF RF
0.5 degree -0.1 degree
4.2 caster 4.1 caster
-0.18 deg toe 0.13 deg toe
LR RR
-1.2 deg -1.7 deg
0.01 toe -0.15 toe
We made all the changes we could, maxing out front adjustment to negative camber, but the rear cant be changed to go more positive. Here's where we wound up:
LF RF
-0.7 deg -1.0 deg
4.2 caster 4.1 caster
-0.05 deg toe -0.04 deg toe
LR RR
-1.2 deg -1.6 deg
-0.02 deg toe -0.01 deg toe
I was a bit disappointed in the rear camber situation and the inability to get more than one degree negative up front. Of course, this won't be a problem in SP, but I thought you AS guys would like to know.
One thing I will say after driving around for a bit now, is that the steering rack is much quicker than the other Scoobys. No more Yoga excercises to prepare for the slaloms!
Goodnight, and I look forward to seeing some of you in DC this weekend.
Joel
| afpdl | 05-27-2004 01:05 AM |
Just curious did you do the alignment with your or your weight in the car?
| Midnight_Gold | 05-27-2004 01:46 AM |
wow... that's interesting....
- Miranda (learning something new every day)
- Miranda (learning something new every day)
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 09:16 AM |
Joel - did you employ all the stock class camber methods? We were able to get way more then that and a lot more caster on Miranda's car.....
-Tom
-Tom
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 10:33 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scoobie Doogie [/i]
[B]Joel,
Have you notice if the front diff pulls the car through turns? I have driven the 04 STi and it feels "funky" to say the least. Have you driven both 04 and 05?
Rumor has it that you can stuff 275's under the stock fenders of the STi. Has anyone tried that yet?
I am a bit curious about the 05 STi's improvements.
Dave [/B][/QUOTE]
No way. I measure cars for wheel/tire fitment for a living and at best you could shoehorn 255's in and that would be with rolling the rear fender lips. This aspect is the big let-down for the STI compared to the EVO IMO. But in SP, although we have not seen it much yet......FENDER FLARES!
[B]Joel,
Have you notice if the front diff pulls the car through turns? I have driven the 04 STi and it feels "funky" to say the least. Have you driven both 04 and 05?
Rumor has it that you can stuff 275's under the stock fenders of the STi. Has anyone tried that yet?
I am a bit curious about the 05 STi's improvements.
Dave [/B][/QUOTE]
No way. I measure cars for wheel/tire fitment for a living and at best you could shoehorn 255's in and that would be with rolling the rear fender lips. This aspect is the big let-down for the STI compared to the EVO IMO. But in SP, although we have not seen it much yet......FENDER FLARES!
| del105 | 05-27-2004 10:38 AM |
[QUOTE]No way. I measure cars for wheel/tire fitment for a living and at best you could shoehorn 255's in and that would be with rolling the rear fender lips.[/QUOTE]
I've seen 275/40/17 victoracers on a stock 04 STi without the fenders rolled. Granted I have no idea how much they rubbed
I've seen 275/40/17 victoracers on a stock 04 STi without the fenders rolled. Granted I have no idea how much they rubbed
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 10:50 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by del105 [/i]
[B]I've seen 275/40/17 victoracers on a stock 04 STi without the fenders rolled. Granted I have no idea how much they rubbed [/B][/QUOTE]
I show 10mm to the strut and 24mm to flush with the fender utilizing the stock tire which measures 226mm wide. I have seen an EVO using 285/30-18's but the suspension was so stiff, the tire did not even come up to the fender lip. Maybe the same case with the STI you saw.
[B]I've seen 275/40/17 victoracers on a stock 04 STi without the fenders rolled. Granted I have no idea how much they rubbed [/B][/QUOTE]
I show 10mm to the strut and 24mm to flush with the fender utilizing the stock tire which measures 226mm wide. I have seen an EVO using 285/30-18's but the suspension was so stiff, the tire did not even come up to the fender lip. Maybe the same case with the STI you saw.
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 10:59 AM |
There are people running 275s already Josh ;)
(although those people liked the 255 victoracers better then the 275 ecstas, but thats a different story)
-Tom
(although those people liked the 255 victoracers better then the 275 ecstas, but thats a different story)
-Tom
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 11:07 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] There are people running 275s already Josh ;)
(although those people liked the 255 victoracers better then the 275 ecstas, but thats a different story)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Tom, can you fit 275's under your car? :huh: The whole platform is the same. In fact, the STI stock strut body is a little larger in diameter than the stock WRX so you event lose a couple of MM on the STI.
But, you guys seem to have physically seen these cars so I guess I can't argue. :p
[B] There are people running 275s already Josh ;)
(although those people liked the 255 victoracers better then the 275 ecstas, but thats a different story)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Tom, can you fit 275's under your car? :huh: The whole platform is the same. In fact, the STI stock strut body is a little larger in diameter than the stock WRX so you event lose a couple of MM on the STI.
But, you guys seem to have physically seen these cars so I guess I can't argue. :p
| afpdl | 05-27-2004 01:15 PM |
I havent seen 275s that didnt rub on AS cars yet but I have seen 255s on AS cars with no rubbing. So somthing you are measuring is a little off.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jsortor[/i]
[B] No way. I measure cars for wheel/tire fitment for a living and at best you could shoehorn 255's in and that would be with rolling the rear fender lips. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jsortor[/i]
[B] No way. I measure cars for wheel/tire fitment for a living and at best you could shoehorn 255's in and that would be with rolling the rear fender lips. [/B][/QUOTE]
| Watkinsm3 | 05-27-2004 02:38 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] I havent seen 275s that didnt rub on AS cars yet but I have seen 255s on AS cars with no rubbing. So somthing you are measuring is a little off. [/B][/QUOTE]
I have to take back what I said earlier in some other thread... my 255s are actually very slightly brushing the rubber fender lip protector. Not even enough to wear through the rubber... just enough to ruff it up a bit. I think it only happens when I encounter a bump mid corner. I don't hear it all when I'm driving. That's with a credit card's width between the tire and the strut.
-Matt
[B] I havent seen 275s that didnt rub on AS cars yet but I have seen 255s on AS cars with no rubbing. So somthing you are measuring is a little off. [/B][/QUOTE]
I have to take back what I said earlier in some other thread... my 255s are actually very slightly brushing the rubber fender lip protector. Not even enough to wear through the rubber... just enough to ruff it up a bit. I think it only happens when I encounter a bump mid corner. I don't hear it all when I'm driving. That's with a credit card's width between the tire and the strut.
-Matt
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 02:43 PM |
/me notes matt needs more offset for the 275s. Youre running stock wheels right now correct? Move that bitch 6mm out and youre set :)
-Tom
-Tom
| Corey | 05-27-2004 02:56 PM |
I think I remember seeing Matt's car sitting on some SSR's
Corey #89 STS
Corey #89 STS
| Watkinsm3 | 05-27-2004 02:59 PM |
Not stock wheels... SSR GT7s 48 offset (stocks would NEED a spacer for 255s... no doubt). If they go any farther out they WILL be hitting the fenders instead of just brushing rubber lip while passing.
In stock... To make them (275s) work you would have to make the back INCREDIBLY stiff... and then? you'd never keep it planted.
In ESP... Fender flares should do the trick... I think you might run into some limitations based on the rear door clearence.
In SM... Rear door is probably the only thing from preventing HUGE monster tires on the car since you can modify the fenders but not the door for clearence.
Sorry Tom, you had me converted but the more I look at it... I just don't think it will happen (at least in stock) without detrimental rubbing.
-Matt
In stock... To make them (275s) work you would have to make the back INCREDIBLY stiff... and then? you'd never keep it planted.
In ESP... Fender flares should do the trick... I think you might run into some limitations based on the rear door clearence.
In SM... Rear door is probably the only thing from preventing HUGE monster tires on the car since you can modify the fenders but not the door for clearence.
Sorry Tom, you had me converted but the more I look at it... I just don't think it will happen (at least in stock) without detrimental rubbing.
-Matt
| afpdl | 05-27-2004 03:01 PM |
I wasnt reffering to your car Matt since Ive never seen it;)
I have seen 255s on stock wheels/suspension and the guy says there is no rubbing. I dont see how hes not hitting the strut with the stock wheels though since you only have a credit card clearance with +48 offset.
I have seen 255s on stock wheels/suspension and the guy says there is no rubbing. I dont see how hes not hitting the strut with the stock wheels though since you only have a credit card clearance with +48 offset.
| Watkinsm3 | 05-27-2004 03:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] I wasnt reffering to your car Matt since Ive never seen it;)
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ha! Fair enough... It was strange I don't think it was rubbing in the begining. Maybe the big front bar on my car is causing the the back to load up more now and sink further into the wheel well? Maybe he is running much higher rear pressures and the contact patch isn't as wide? Maybe its voodoo?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] I have seen 255s on stock wheels/suspension and the guy says there is no rubbing. I dont see how hes not hitting the strut with the stock wheels though since you only have a credit card clearance with +48 offset. [/B][/QUOTE]
LSD to alter his perceptions? I'm really reaching here... I dunno, it really doesn't seem possible.
-Matt
[B] I wasnt reffering to your car Matt since Ive never seen it;)
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ha! Fair enough... It was strange I don't think it was rubbing in the begining. Maybe the big front bar on my car is causing the the back to load up more now and sink further into the wheel well? Maybe he is running much higher rear pressures and the contact patch isn't as wide? Maybe its voodoo?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] I have seen 255s on stock wheels/suspension and the guy says there is no rubbing. I dont see how hes not hitting the strut with the stock wheels though since you only have a credit card clearance with +48 offset. [/B][/QUOTE]
LSD to alter his perceptions? I'm really reaching here... I dunno, it really doesn't seem possible.
-Matt
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 03:14 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Watkinsm3[/i]
[B] Not stock wheels... SSR GT7s 48 offset (stocks would NEED a spacer for 255s... no doubt). If they go any farther out they WILL be hitting the fenders instead of just brushing rubber lip while passing.
In stock... To make them (275s) work you would have to make the back INCREDIBLY stiff... and then? you'd never keep it planted.
In ESP... Fender flares should do the trick... I think you might run into some limitations based on the rear door clearence.
In SM... Rear door is probably the only thing from preventing HUGE monster tires on the car since you can modify the fenders but not the door for clearence.
Sorry Tom, you had me converted but the more I look at it... I just don't think it will happen (at least in stock) without detrimental rubbing.
-Matt [/B][/QUOTE]
What is the guess as to the widest you could go without door mods, or is it more a relationship with tire height?
[B] Not stock wheels... SSR GT7s 48 offset (stocks would NEED a spacer for 255s... no doubt). If they go any farther out they WILL be hitting the fenders instead of just brushing rubber lip while passing.
In stock... To make them (275s) work you would have to make the back INCREDIBLY stiff... and then? you'd never keep it planted.
In ESP... Fender flares should do the trick... I think you might run into some limitations based on the rear door clearence.
In SM... Rear door is probably the only thing from preventing HUGE monster tires on the car since you can modify the fenders but not the door for clearence.
Sorry Tom, you had me converted but the more I look at it... I just don't think it will happen (at least in stock) without detrimental rubbing.
-Matt [/B][/QUOTE]
What is the guess as to the widest you could go without door mods, or is it more a relationship with tire height?
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 03:16 PM |
There is a local guy here that is running the 255s on stock wheels with no spacer. He has almost a finger clearance. I've seen it myself and experienced it myself. Its a very early build STi with everything else stock.
-Tom
-Tom
| zzyzx | 05-27-2004 03:16 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]There are people running 275s already Josh ;)
[/B][/QUOTE]
:confused:
Make up your mind, Tom.
:lol:
So, just to clarify - NOBODY is competing on 275s in an STi.
- Steve
[B]There are people running 275s already Josh ;)
[/B][/QUOTE]
:confused:
Make up your mind, Tom.
:lol:
So, just to clarify - NOBODY is competing on 275s in an STi.
- Steve
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 03:18 PM |
Larry and Kim fine competed with the 275 ecstas on the STi. They didn't like them, so they went back to the 255 victos.
-Tom
-Tom
| Watkinsm3 | 05-27-2004 03:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jsortor[/i]
[B] What is the guess as to the widest you could go without door mods, or is it more a relationship with tire height? [/B][/QUOTE]
not sure cause it will depend tire height as well as suspension setup outside of stock class... But I think a fast setup will most certainly require some cutting in the rear and cutting (ESP) or replacement fenders (SM) up front.
in stock class? 255 victoracers/245 hoosiers... :)
-Matt
[B] What is the guess as to the widest you could go without door mods, or is it more a relationship with tire height? [/B][/QUOTE]
not sure cause it will depend tire height as well as suspension setup outside of stock class... But I think a fast setup will most certainly require some cutting in the rear and cutting (ESP) or replacement fenders (SM) up front.
in stock class? 255 victoracers/245 hoosiers... :)
-Matt
| Watkinsm3 | 05-27-2004 03:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] There is a local guy here that is running the 255s on stock wheels with no spacer. He has almost a finger clearance. I've seen it myself and experienced it myself. Its a very early build STi with everything else stock.
[/B][/QUOTE]
No dissrespect meant here Tom...
Does that take into account the wheel/tire tucking into the rear fender? what about tire flex? a car sitting still is one thing a car in motion is completely different. Looking at mine? I'd say there is no way it would be close to rubbing.... but it does... I should get one of those sweet little externally mountable cameras out there to see what's REALLY happening.
-Matt
[B] There is a local guy here that is running the 255s on stock wheels with no spacer. He has almost a finger clearance. I've seen it myself and experienced it myself. Its a very early build STi with everything else stock.
[/B][/QUOTE]
No dissrespect meant here Tom...
Does that take into account the wheel/tire tucking into the rear fender? what about tire flex? a car sitting still is one thing a car in motion is completely different. Looking at mine? I'd say there is no way it would be close to rubbing.... but it does... I should get one of those sweet little externally mountable cameras out there to see what's REALLY happening.
-Matt
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 03:38 PM |
So yesteryears COBB Conebasher would be illegal in SM by todays ruleset because of the widebody modification to the rear door?
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 03:38 PM |
I am a firm believer (you will have to provide pics/video to prove me wrong) that there is no way to get rear fender tuck in autox. Even if you do, a little rub here and there ain't going to hurt.
When I was running -3 degrees camber with 2 camber bolts (for a few weeks before the plates came in) I was a credit card widths away from rubbing the tein with my back then 245s. I don't think they ever touched as there was no marks on the tire and no marks on the coilover....
edit: Although I agree that there is no way in hell you would fit a 275 Hoosier, and the 245 SO4s are friggin wide.
So the moral of the story is, wanna go fast? Run the 255 Kumhos or 245 Hoosiers. Want to experiment to see if you can go faster? Play with some 275 Kumhos...
-Tom
When I was running -3 degrees camber with 2 camber bolts (for a few weeks before the plates came in) I was a credit card widths away from rubbing the tein with my back then 245s. I don't think they ever touched as there was no marks on the tire and no marks on the coilover....
edit: Although I agree that there is no way in hell you would fit a 275 Hoosier, and the 245 SO4s are friggin wide.
So the moral of the story is, wanna go fast? Run the 255 Kumhos or 245 Hoosiers. Want to experiment to see if you can go faster? Play with some 275 Kumhos...
-Tom
| afpdl | 05-27-2004 03:39 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Watkinsm3[/i]
[B]
LSD to alter his perceptions? I'm really reaching here... I dunno, it really doesn't seem possible.
-Matt [/B][/QUOTE]
I didnt ask if he had spacers on there but they were definetly not rubbing on the strut and they were on the stock wheels.
[B]
LSD to alter his perceptions? I'm really reaching here... I dunno, it really doesn't seem possible.
-Matt [/B][/QUOTE]
I didnt ask if he had spacers on there but they were definetly not rubbing on the strut and they were on the stock wheels.
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 03:42 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] I am a firm believer (you will have to provide pics/video to prove me wrong) that there is no way to get rear fender tuck in autox. Even if you do, a little rub here and there ain't going to hurt.
When I was running -3 degrees camber with 2 camber bolts (for a few weeks before the plates came in) I was a credit card widths away from rubbing the tein with my back then 245s. I don't think they ever touched as there was no marks on the tire and no marks on the coilover....
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Not with the rocks you have for rear springs :lol: :lol:
[B] I am a firm believer (you will have to provide pics/video to prove me wrong) that there is no way to get rear fender tuck in autox. Even if you do, a little rub here and there ain't going to hurt.
When I was running -3 degrees camber with 2 camber bolts (for a few weeks before the plates came in) I was a credit card widths away from rubbing the tein with my back then 245s. I don't think they ever touched as there was no marks on the tire and no marks on the coilover....
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Not with the rocks you have for rear springs :lol: :lol:
| Watkinsm3 | 05-27-2004 04:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] I didnt ask if he had spacers on there but they were definetly not rubbing on the strut and they were on the stock wheels. [/B][/QUOTE]
I would be surprised if he wasn't running spacers... VERY surprised.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jsortor[/i]
[B] So yesteryears COBB Conebasher would be illegal in SM by todays ruleset because of the widebody modification to the rear door? [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what they were running on the car for a body kit... I do know that there are no replacement of the rear quarter panels or doors per the rules...
[quote]The firewall, roof, doors, rear quarter panels, floor pan, trunk lid (if any) or rear hatch (if any) must remain stock[/quote]
so you are left to street prepared flaring rules for the rear of the car...
[quote]Fenders and bumpers (including the portion of the hood which serves as a fender/wheel well, 8/2002, but ONLY that portion and not by complete hood replacement, 9/2002) may be modified for tire clearance. Flares may be added although tires may extend beyond the body work. Replacement of complete flared fenders or quarter panels is prohibited. [/quote]
This makes no mention of the door. So strickly speaking I would say no as it is not said to be allow there for it isn't. [i]MAYBE[/i] you could argue that that part of the door is part of the fender (like the hood ruling made for the corvettes) and there for you could modify it... I would do NOTHING though without first getting a ruling from the SEB. Maybe it is legal and that is why COBB did that... but I would NEVER say that "COBB did it so it is legal"
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jsortor[/i]
[B] Not with the rocks you have for rear springs :lol: :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Which would be soooooo detrimental to an STi.
-Matt
EDIT : If... if you could flare the portion of the rear door that was shared as the fender... I'd probably try and stuff 285 hoosiers on an SM STi.
[B] I didnt ask if he had spacers on there but they were definetly not rubbing on the strut and they were on the stock wheels. [/B][/QUOTE]
I would be surprised if he wasn't running spacers... VERY surprised.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jsortor[/i]
[B] So yesteryears COBB Conebasher would be illegal in SM by todays ruleset because of the widebody modification to the rear door? [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what they were running on the car for a body kit... I do know that there are no replacement of the rear quarter panels or doors per the rules...
[quote]The firewall, roof, doors, rear quarter panels, floor pan, trunk lid (if any) or rear hatch (if any) must remain stock[/quote]
so you are left to street prepared flaring rules for the rear of the car...
[quote]Fenders and bumpers (including the portion of the hood which serves as a fender/wheel well, 8/2002, but ONLY that portion and not by complete hood replacement, 9/2002) may be modified for tire clearance. Flares may be added although tires may extend beyond the body work. Replacement of complete flared fenders or quarter panels is prohibited. [/quote]
This makes no mention of the door. So strickly speaking I would say no as it is not said to be allow there for it isn't. [i]MAYBE[/i] you could argue that that part of the door is part of the fender (like the hood ruling made for the corvettes) and there for you could modify it... I would do NOTHING though without first getting a ruling from the SEB. Maybe it is legal and that is why COBB did that... but I would NEVER say that "COBB did it so it is legal"
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jsortor[/i]
[B] Not with the rocks you have for rear springs :lol: :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Which would be soooooo detrimental to an STi.
-Matt
EDIT : If... if you could flare the portion of the rear door that was shared as the fender... I'd probably try and stuff 285 hoosiers on an SM STi.
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 04:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Watkinsm3 [/i]
[B]
EDIT : If... if you could flare the portion of the rear door that was shared as the fender... I'd probably try and stuff 285 hoosiers on an SM STi. [/B][/QUOTE]
Now your talkin..... :disco:
[B]
EDIT : If... if you could flare the portion of the rear door that was shared as the fender... I'd probably try and stuff 285 hoosiers on an SM STi. [/B][/QUOTE]
Now your talkin..... :disco:
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 04:40 PM |
You guys are almost making me get some 275s mounted up on the spare wheels Miranda has and put them on her car just to prove you guys wrong :lol:
-Tom
-Tom
| Watkinsm3 | 05-27-2004 04:46 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] You guys are almost making me get some 275s mounted up on the spare wheels Miranda has and put them on her car just to prove you guys wrong :lol:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Do it man!!! I have no intentions of stopping you! You'll get nothing but encouragement from me!
-Matt
[B] You guys are almost making me get some 275s mounted up on the spare wheels Miranda has and put them on her car just to prove you guys wrong :lol:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Do it man!!! I have no intentions of stopping you! You'll get nothing but encouragement from me!
-Matt
| afpdl | 05-27-2004 04:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Watkinsm3[/i]
[B] EDIT : If... if you could flare the portion of the rear door that was shared as the fender... I'd probably try and stuff 285 hoosiers on an SM STi. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats what conebasher used to run
[img]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNDEwNTc0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNDEwNTczNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg[/img]
The door is obviously modified and he didnt get protested for it. I guess you could just claim that its fender.
[B] EDIT : If... if you could flare the portion of the rear door that was shared as the fender... I'd probably try and stuff 285 hoosiers on an SM STi. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats what conebasher used to run
[img]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNDEwNTc0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNDEwNTczNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg[/img]
The door is obviously modified and he didnt get protested for it. I guess you could just claim that its fender.
| MNbiker | 05-27-2004 05:04 PM |
Honestly, I don't think there's any reason you need to touch the doors, other than for aesthetic reasons - simply cut out the fenders enough for the desired clearance. The 285/30-18 Hoosier monsters that Tunnell is running on his M3 are the same height as stock, so you're gonna have some clearance for suspension travel - just not a lot. NOTHING in the rules state that tires can't stick out past the wheel wells. (too bad we don't have some nice 275/40-15's to run - then we could look just like 1 1/4 scale CSP cars!:lol: :lol: )
-Steve
-Steve
| Watkinsm3 | 05-27-2004 05:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] The door is obviously modified and he didnt get protested for it. I guess you could just claim that its fender. [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly what I had in mind BUT... just because they didn't get protested, doesn't make it a legal modification. I [i]imagine[/i] it is legal under the claim that its part of the fender.
Maybe I'll send off an email when I get back from DC. Since I have more than just a passing interest in the SM STi concept.
-Matt
[B] The door is obviously modified and he didnt get protested for it. I guess you could just claim that its fender. [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly what I had in mind BUT... just because they didn't get protested, doesn't make it a legal modification. I [i]imagine[/i] it is legal under the claim that its part of the fender.
Maybe I'll send off an email when I get back from DC. Since I have more than just a passing interest in the SM STi concept.
-Matt
| zoomfactor | 05-27-2004 05:17 PM |
[QUOTE]NOTHING in the rules state that tires can't stick out past the wheel wells.[/QUOTE]
I guess you like the Honda aesthetic:D
I guess you like the Honda aesthetic:D
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 05:22 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker [/i]
[B]Honestly, I don't think there's any reason you need to touch the doors, other than for aesthetic reasons - simply cut out the fenders enough for the desired clearance. The 285/30-18 Hoosier monsters that Tunnell is running on his M3 are the same height as stock, so you're gonna have some clearance for suspension travel - just not a lot. NOTHING in the rules state that tires can't stick out past the wheel wells. (too bad we don't have some nice 275/40-15's to run - then we could look just like 1 1/4 scale CSP cars!:lol: :lol: )
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Steve, I would at least like to try to have my car have some style at that point. ConeBasher would have gotten no magazine covers or writeups if they just chopped the fenders and let the tires hang out. Performance wise that is fine, but we have all seen cars built without any mind to aesthetics, they aren't very pretty.....
[B]Honestly, I don't think there's any reason you need to touch the doors, other than for aesthetic reasons - simply cut out the fenders enough for the desired clearance. The 285/30-18 Hoosier monsters that Tunnell is running on his M3 are the same height as stock, so you're gonna have some clearance for suspension travel - just not a lot. NOTHING in the rules state that tires can't stick out past the wheel wells. (too bad we don't have some nice 275/40-15's to run - then we could look just like 1 1/4 scale CSP cars!:lol: :lol: )
-Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Steve, I would at least like to try to have my car have some style at that point. ConeBasher would have gotten no magazine covers or writeups if they just chopped the fenders and let the tires hang out. Performance wise that is fine, but we have all seen cars built without any mind to aesthetics, they aren't very pretty.....
| afpdl | 05-27-2004 05:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jsortor[/i]
[B] Performance wise that is fine, but we have all seen cars built without any mind to aesthetics, they aren't very pretty..... [/B][/QUOTE]
Are you implying a sawsall and a can of white spray paint doesnt make a pretty car?
[img]http://conecrazy.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/album04/pic9.sized.jpg[/img]
:p
I would like the aesthetics too but those fenders were not cheap by any means to make.
[B] Performance wise that is fine, but we have all seen cars built without any mind to aesthetics, they aren't very pretty..... [/B][/QUOTE]
Are you implying a sawsall and a can of white spray paint doesnt make a pretty car?
[img]http://conecrazy.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/album04/pic9.sized.jpg[/img]
:p
I would like the aesthetics too but those fenders were not cheap by any means to make.
| zzyzx | 05-27-2004 05:31 PM |
Hmm, good point on the doors on Conebasher. My only explanation for him not being protested is that he never placed high enough for anybody to care.
- Steve
- Steve
| Jsortor | 05-27-2004 06:05 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl [/i]
[B]Are you implying a sawsall and a can of white spray paint doesnt make a pretty car?
[img]http://conecrazy.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/album04/pic9.sized.jpg[/img]
:p
I would like the aesthetics too but those fenders were not cheap by any means to make. [/B][/QUOTE]
Whats funny about that picture is that it looks like the front fenders were cut "after" the application of the Hoosier stickers...:lol: :lol:
Steve: Yep the door thing would need some clarification I imagine.
[B]Are you implying a sawsall and a can of white spray paint doesnt make a pretty car?
[img]http://conecrazy.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/album04/pic9.sized.jpg[/img]
:p
I would like the aesthetics too but those fenders were not cheap by any means to make. [/B][/QUOTE]
Whats funny about that picture is that it looks like the front fenders were cut "after" the application of the Hoosier stickers...:lol: :lol:
Steve: Yep the door thing would need some clarification I imagine.
| trhoppe | 05-27-2004 07:03 PM |
[quote]The door is obviously modified and he didnt get protested for it. [/quote]
You have to be fast to be protested :rolleyes:
Just because they might have had an illegal part on an unprotested car doesnt make it a legal part ;)
-Tom
You have to be fast to be protested :rolleyes:
Just because they might have had an illegal part on an unprotested car doesnt make it a legal part ;)
-Tom
| afpdl | 05-27-2004 07:06 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B]
Just because they might have had an illegal part on an unprotested car doesnt make it a legal part ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
I didnt say it was legal, just that the door was definetly modified.
[B]
Just because they might have had an illegal part on an unprotested car doesnt make it a legal part ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
I didnt say it was legal, just that the door was definetly modified.
| afpdl | 05-27-2004 07:26 PM |
I pmed the guy I know with 255/40/17 victoracers on his stock sti wheels and he says he is not rubbing anywhere and had 3mm of clearance from the rear strut.
| grippgoat | 05-28-2004 04:15 AM |
So does all this discussion mean that on my 05 STI, after I wear out the RE070's, I could probably pretty safely throw some 245/40/17s on there without worrying about rubbing?
-Mike
-Mike
| afpdl | 05-28-2004 04:19 AM |
You could put those on an 04 and not worry about rubbing;) They will be fine on a 05.
| trhoppe | 05-28-2004 09:31 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] You could put those on an 04 and not worry about rubbing;) They will be fine on a 05. [/B][/QUOTE]
Huh??
245/40/17 Kumho MXs fit with SO much room to spare its ridiculous.....Thats whats on Miranda's STi.
[img]http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc%20pics/sti1_small.jpg[/img]
-Tom
[B] You could put those on an 04 and not worry about rubbing;) They will be fine on a 05. [/B][/QUOTE]
Huh??
245/40/17 Kumho MXs fit with SO much room to spare its ridiculous.....Thats whats on Miranda's STi.
[img]http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc%20pics/sti1_small.jpg[/img]
-Tom
| afpdl | 05-28-2004 05:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] Huh??
245/40/17 Kumho MXs fit with SO much room to spare its ridiculous.....Thats whats on Miranda's STi.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats what I said, what do you mean huh??
[B] Huh??
245/40/17 Kumho MXs fit with SO much room to spare its ridiculous.....Thats whats on Miranda's STi.
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats what I said, what do you mean huh??
| AUTOwrXER | 05-31-2004 08:03 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] Just curious did you do the alignment with your or your weight in the car? [/B][/QUOTE]
Long time since I've been near a computer...
The alignment was with me in the car. Sorry for the delay.
Joel
[B] Just curious did you do the alignment with your or your weight in the car? [/B][/QUOTE]
Long time since I've been near a computer...
The alignment was with me in the car. Sorry for the delay.
Joel
| AUTOwrXER | 05-31-2004 08:04 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] Joel - did you employ all the stock class camber methods? We were able to get way more then that and a lot more caster on Miranda's car.....
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Honestly, I don't know all the tricks because I've never run competitively in a stock class car.
[B] Joel - did you employ all the stock class camber methods? We were able to get way more then that and a lot more caster on Miranda's car.....
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Honestly, I don't know all the tricks because I've never run competitively in a stock class car.
| Midnight_Gold | 05-31-2004 08:31 PM |
Well, I remember a whole lot of pushing and pulling under the car... looked a little scary, but it worked ok...
but you're not considering stock class, are you Joel?
- Miranda
but you're not considering stock class, are you Joel?
- Miranda
| trhoppe | 06-01-2004 08:17 AM |
[img]http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/19351_lg.jpg[/img]
+
[img]http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/15459_lg.jpg[/img]
-Tom
+
[img]http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/15459_lg.jpg[/img]
-Tom
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