| AUTOwrXER | 05-23-2004 11:44 PM |
I'm going to listen to lots of Mustang/Camaro drivers cry...
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as I'm planning to campaign a 2005 STi in ESP this year. Or more correctly, I'll be campaigning it until they boot it into BSP. I'm going to invest in a set of Hoosier radial wets so I can mop up their tears :devil:
Oh, the list of mods is growing every minute. I'm so glad I can use the UTEC now without it being an issue. Now I get to tune with C16 and water injection as well :eek:
I'm going to miss the STX crew. You guys are a great crowd. I hope we run on the same day at nationals this year. If I drive as well as I hope, you may find me in the protest shed. I'm sure the big iron won't give up easily, but everything on the car will be to the letter of the law.
Joel Fehrman
Oh, the list of mods is growing every minute. I'm so glad I can use the UTEC now without it being an issue. Now I get to tune with C16 and water injection as well :eek:
I'm going to miss the STX crew. You guys are a great crowd. I hope we run on the same day at nationals this year. If I drive as well as I hope, you may find me in the protest shed. I'm sure the big iron won't give up easily, but everything on the car will be to the letter of the law.
Joel Fehrman
| MNbiker | 05-24-2004 12:44 AM |
Re: I'm going to listen to lots of Mustang/Camaro drivers cry...
�
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AUTOwrXER [/i]
[B]I'm so glad I can use the UTEC now without it being an issue. [/B][/QUOTE]
Joel,
What changed with the UTEC to make it SP-legal?
-Steve
[B]I'm so glad I can use the UTEC now without it being an issue. [/B][/QUOTE]
Joel,
What changed with the UTEC to make it SP-legal?
-Steve
| DrBiggly | 05-24-2004 12:56 AM |
Definitely curious to know how the UTEC is legal in ESP?. :)
| trojan9x | 05-24-2004 07:43 AM |
bump for curiosity :disco:
| TheWRX | 05-24-2004 08:09 AM |
STX and ESP are running the same days at Nationals (Tuesday/Wednesday). It should be interesting to watch. There are at least one or two other fast STX drivers from last year who jumped ship to ESP. Good luck, we'll be rooting for you!
| Orion | 05-24-2004 08:20 AM |
adios!
i noticed you're headed to the Peru Tour but not Toledo. are you gonna run the STi there? if so, need a codriver???:devil:
i noticed you're headed to the Peru Tour but not Toledo. are you gonna run the STi there? if so, need a codriver???:devil:
| KC | 05-24-2004 08:22 AM |
Wow, have fun Joel! You have the new '05 too... with the new front limited slip and other 'improvements'. A great example of why not to buy a 1st year car. :devil:
I think the '05 is going to be mighty quick.
Yeah, nationals is going to be fun. I'm starting my rain dance now. :D
And I'm also curious how the UTEC is now legal.
--kC
I think the '05 is going to be mighty quick.
Yeah, nationals is going to be fun. I'm starting my rain dance now. :D
And I'm also curious how the UTEC is now legal.
--kC
| del105 | 05-24-2004 09:31 AM |
After looking at the rules, I guess Joel "could" use utec in ESP. ST class is very specific about about engine management while SP just says:
"Alternate computer control modules may be used whenever an equivalent change to the conventional system is allowed. For example, alternate computer module control of ignition settings or fuel injection is allowed. Direct turbocharger boost control by alternate computer control is not, since there is no equivalent mechanical allowance."
So I guess if you ran the boost wire from the boost solenoid to the stock ecu and back then the Utec would be legal in SP.
Andrew
"Alternate computer control modules may be used whenever an equivalent change to the conventional system is allowed. For example, alternate computer module control of ignition settings or fuel injection is allowed. Direct turbocharger boost control by alternate computer control is not, since there is no equivalent mechanical allowance."
So I guess if you ran the boost wire from the boost solenoid to the stock ecu and back then the Utec would be legal in SP.
Andrew
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 10:00 PM |
That's exactly right, Andrew. I'll be using the UTEC the same way I was in STX before we learned that it took direct control of timing (and now timing as well). Engine management is open so long as I don't touch boost controls. The wastegate wire bypassing the UTEC directly to the ECU meets that requirement.
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 10:03 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Orion[/i]
[B] adios!
i noticed you're headed to the Peru Tour but not Toledo. are you gonna run the STi there? if so, need a codriver???:devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure about my plans just yet. The ESP development will start when I'm convinced it can win in BSP. Otherwise I need to stick to AS or STU. Right now I think the car can be on pace in BSP once prepped to the limit, by a) I'm not exactly sure that staement is true and b) I'm not sure I want to spend the $20k to go all the way to the limit...
My co-driver is pretty pumped, so I expect him to make the trip to Peru. Thanks for the offer though ;)
[B] adios!
i noticed you're headed to the Peru Tour but not Toledo. are you gonna run the STi there? if so, need a codriver???:devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure about my plans just yet. The ESP development will start when I'm convinced it can win in BSP. Otherwise I need to stick to AS or STU. Right now I think the car can be on pace in BSP once prepped to the limit, by a) I'm not exactly sure that staement is true and b) I'm not sure I want to spend the $20k to go all the way to the limit...
My co-driver is pretty pumped, so I expect him to make the trip to Peru. Thanks for the offer though ;)
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 10:06 PM |
Any guesses what I can get the weight down to in SP? I think I can make upwards of 320HP at the wheels in SP trim, but the weight will be important if BSP is in the future (which I fully expect, btw).
| afpdl | 05-24-2004 10:40 PM |
I would guess 2900-3000. Dont think you can get much lower unless there are some weight dropping mods I cant think of.
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 10:53 PM |
I should have the car on the scales Wednesday night for baseline corner weights. I guess I'll know better after that. I'm not sure 2900 is attainable.
FWIW, the car should weigh less in ESP than if it gets moved to BSP because of update/backdate with the WRX. For example, you could backdate to the WRX wing or lack thereof in ESP, but you would be required to run the wing in BSP.
If the car is moved to BSP, I hope someone does a good WRX in ESP and beats the complainers still :lol:
FWIW, the car should weigh less in ESP than if it gets moved to BSP because of update/backdate with the WRX. For example, you could backdate to the WRX wing or lack thereof in ESP, but you would be required to run the wing in BSP.
If the car is moved to BSP, I hope someone does a good WRX in ESP and beats the complainers still :lol:
| jmott | 05-24-2004 11:03 PM |
I will codrive for you at nationals and get the win
=)
=)
| afpdl | 05-24-2004 11:05 PM |
You cant update back date with a wrx in ESP right now they are on different lines to prevent you from doing it.
I can tell you my car with a lightweight battery, 1/4 tanks of gas, sparco roadster seat with slider and mount, hks downpipe, no catback, jic coilovers, sdrs with 245 victos on it weighed just over 3100.
You can still pull the a/c, lightweight passenger seat, lighter wheels, steering wheel, get rid of the seat belts, heatsheilds, and a few other things.
And the 05s are supposably a few lbs lighter due to some body panels, and a few other peices.
I can tell you my car with a lightweight battery, 1/4 tanks of gas, sparco roadster seat with slider and mount, hks downpipe, no catback, jic coilovers, sdrs with 245 victos on it weighed just over 3100.
You can still pull the a/c, lightweight passenger seat, lighter wheels, steering wheel, get rid of the seat belts, heatsheilds, and a few other things.
And the 05s are supposably a few lbs lighter due to some body panels, and a few other peices.
| del105 | 05-24-2004 11:08 PM |
[QUOTE]FWIW, the car should weigh less in ESP than if it gets moved to BSP because of update/backdate with the WRX. For example, you could backdate to the WRX wing or lack thereof in ESP, but you would be required to run the wing in BSP. [/QUOTE]
Joel, you can replace spoiler even in BSP the rule is long so I'm not going to type it out but I'm pretty positive you're allowed.
Unless the Wing is considered factory trim? :confused: but I think the 05 STI is offered with wing delete option so if thats the case it wouldn't matter.
Joel, you can replace spoiler even in BSP the rule is long so I'm not going to type it out but I'm pretty positive you're allowed.
Unless the Wing is considered factory trim? :confused: but I think the 05 STI is offered with wing delete option so if thats the case it wouldn't matter.
| jmott | 05-24-2004 11:11 PM |
lightweight flywheel and clutch
drop more of your exauhst
lightweight rotors
find a jockey to drive for u
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl [/i]
[B]You cant update back date with a wrx in ESP right now they are on different lines to prevent you from doing it.
I can tell you my car with a lightweight battery, 1/4 tanks of gas, sparco roadster seat with slider and mount, hks downpipe, no catback, jic coilovers, sdrs with 245 victos on it weighed just over 3100.
You can still pull the a/c, lightweight passenger seat, lighter wheels, steering wheel, get rid of the seat belts, heatsheilds, and a few other things.
And the 05s are supposably a few lbs lighter due to some body panels, and a few other peices. [/B][/QUOTE]
drop more of your exauhst
lightweight rotors
find a jockey to drive for u
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl [/i]
[B]You cant update back date with a wrx in ESP right now they are on different lines to prevent you from doing it.
I can tell you my car with a lightweight battery, 1/4 tanks of gas, sparco roadster seat with slider and mount, hks downpipe, no catback, jic coilovers, sdrs with 245 victos on it weighed just over 3100.
You can still pull the a/c, lightweight passenger seat, lighter wheels, steering wheel, get rid of the seat belts, heatsheilds, and a few other things.
And the 05s are supposably a few lbs lighter due to some body panels, and a few other peices. [/B][/QUOTE]
| afpdl | 05-24-2004 11:16 PM |
There is no more exhaust to drop:) Crank pulley is another couple of lbs, headers would save some weight too. If you can add wings in sp I would imagine you could remove wings but I dont have a rule book to look through.
Oh I also had a radio/amp in the car so thats another few lbs.
Oh I also had a radio/amp in the car so thats another few lbs.
| jmott | 05-24-2004 11:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl [/i]
[B]There is no more exhaust to drop:) Crank pulley is another couple of lbs, headers would save some weight too. If you can add wings in sp I would imagine you could remove wings but I dont have a rule book to look through.
Oh I also had a radio/amp in the car so thats another few lbs. [/B][/QUOTE]
when I drove it the muffler was still hanging from the car =)
[B]There is no more exhaust to drop:) Crank pulley is another couple of lbs, headers would save some weight too. If you can add wings in sp I would imagine you could remove wings but I dont have a rule book to look through.
Oh I also had a radio/amp in the car so thats another few lbs. [/B][/QUOTE]
when I drove it the muffler was still hanging from the car =)
| afpdl | 05-24-2004 11:22 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott[/i]
[B] when I drove it the muffler was still hanging from the car =) [/B][/QUOTE]
No when you drove the muffler was fully attached. When I weighed it at the national tour the muffler was off the car.
[B] when I drove it the muffler was still hanging from the car =) [/B][/QUOTE]
No when you drove the muffler was fully attached. When I weighed it at the national tour the muffler was off the car.
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 11:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] You cant update back date with a wrx in ESP right now they are on different lines to prevent you from doing it.
I can tell you my car with a lightweight battery, 1/4 tanks of gas, sparco roadster seat with slider and mount, hks downpipe, no catback, jic coilovers, sdrs with 245 victos on it weighed just over 3100.
You can still pull the a/c, lightweight passenger seat, lighter wheels, steering wheel, get rid of the seat belts, heatsheilds, and a few other things.
And the 05s are supposably a few lbs lighter due to some body panels, and a few other peices. [/B][/QUOTE]
3100 with you out of the car, correct?
[B] You cant update back date with a wrx in ESP right now they are on different lines to prevent you from doing it.
I can tell you my car with a lightweight battery, 1/4 tanks of gas, sparco roadster seat with slider and mount, hks downpipe, no catback, jic coilovers, sdrs with 245 victos on it weighed just over 3100.
You can still pull the a/c, lightweight passenger seat, lighter wheels, steering wheel, get rid of the seat belts, heatsheilds, and a few other things.
And the 05s are supposably a few lbs lighter due to some body panels, and a few other peices. [/B][/QUOTE]
3100 with you out of the car, correct?
| afpdl | 05-24-2004 11:26 PM |
Yes out of the car. The car would have to be under 2900 to weigh in at 3100 with me in the car;)
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 11:28 PM |
I know. I know.
Damn. I heard this dirty rumor about the car being significantly lighter than listed. It's not true, but a big part of me wanted to believe it. Kind of like how I want to believe the STi will stay in ESP :lol:
Damn. I heard this dirty rumor about the car being significantly lighter than listed. It's not true, but a big part of me wanted to believe it. Kind of like how I want to believe the STi will stay in ESP :lol:
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 11:30 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by del105[/i]
[B] Joel, you can replace spoiler even in BSP the rule is long so I'm not going to type it out but I'm pretty positive you're allowed.
Unless the Wing is considered factory trim? :confused: but I think the 05 STI is offered with wing delete option so if thats the case it wouldn't matter. [/B][/QUOTE]
I didn't see anything when I read the rulebook a few days ago, but I was dozing off. Is the car really available without the wing? I would have done that in a heartbeat...
[B] Joel, you can replace spoiler even in BSP the rule is long so I'm not going to type it out but I'm pretty positive you're allowed.
Unless the Wing is considered factory trim? :confused: but I think the 05 STI is offered with wing delete option so if thats the case it wouldn't matter. [/B][/QUOTE]
I didn't see anything when I read the rulebook a few days ago, but I was dozing off. Is the car really available without the wing? I would have done that in a heartbeat...
| Midnight_Gold | 05-24-2004 11:40 PM |
:banana:
This is gonna be fun!
- Miranda
This is gonna be fun!
- Miranda
| AUTOwrXER | 05-24-2004 11:48 PM |
I need to get my sponsorship proposal back together :lol:
| jmott | 05-25-2004 01:02 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AUTOwrXER [/i]
[B]I need to get my sponsorship proposal back together :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
you won any national tours, pro solos, or divsionals before?
if you really want to get serious, find a way to change the final drive ratio to add 7mph or so to 2nd gear.
[B]I need to get my sponsorship proposal back together :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
you won any national tours, pro solos, or divsionals before?
if you really want to get serious, find a way to change the final drive ratio to add 7mph or so to 2nd gear.
| afpdl | 05-25-2004 01:16 AM |
The 05s "may" have a longer 2nd gear, like he said in the other thread but its not confirmed yet. You could also raise the rev limit.
| dadswrx | 05-25-2004 05:09 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott [/i]
[B]if you really want to get serious, find a way to change the final drive ratio to add 7mph or so to 2nd gear. [/B][/QUOTE]
I believe that this is a key point to the success of the Sti in ESP that most people overlook.
Mike
02 WRX Wagon
[B]if you really want to get serious, find a way to change the final drive ratio to add 7mph or so to 2nd gear. [/B][/QUOTE]
I believe that this is a key point to the success of the Sti in ESP that most people overlook.
Mike
02 WRX Wagon
| Patrick Olsen | 05-25-2004 05:28 AM |
It'll be interesting to see what happens, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume the STi will clean up. There are some damn good drivers in Mustangs and F-bodies, and they've had years to develop the perfect setup. As with any class, it will take a very good driver to beat another very good driver - the car won't do it alone.
I don't know who AUTOwrXER is - is he a very good driver? :)
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
I don't know who AUTOwrXER is - is he a very good driver? :)
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| sdecker | 05-25-2004 07:23 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Patrick Olsen [/i]
[B]I don't know who AUTOwrXER is - is he a very good driver? :)
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep! ;)
[B]I don't know who AUTOwrXER is - is he a very good driver? :)
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep! ;)
| MNbiker | 05-25-2004 07:36 AM |
Joel,
If the STi ends up on the same line as the WRX in ESP, then 2,900 is a realistic weight goal. Actually, the ideal ESP car would use the WRX 5 speed tranny for weight reduction & gearing. This combo could get you into the 2,800's. :devil: (Of course, you'd need a steady supply of replacement trannies! :lol: :lol: )
With the STi on it's own SP line, I'd say 3,000 lbs would be a good goal, with racing seats, A/C delete, etc.
-Steve
(whose WAGON will be at approx. 2,930 lbs by the Oscoda Pro.)
If the STi ends up on the same line as the WRX in ESP, then 2,900 is a realistic weight goal. Actually, the ideal ESP car would use the WRX 5 speed tranny for weight reduction & gearing. This combo could get you into the 2,800's. :devil: (Of course, you'd need a steady supply of replacement trannies! :lol: :lol: )
With the STi on it's own SP line, I'd say 3,000 lbs would be a good goal, with racing seats, A/C delete, etc.
-Steve
(whose WAGON will be at approx. 2,930 lbs by the Oscoda Pro.)
| zoomfactor | 05-25-2004 09:00 AM |
[QUOTE]If the STi ends up on the same line as the WRX in ESP, then 2,900 is a realistic weight goal. [/QUOTE]
I've got a 2004 Rulebook that seems to have some of the Fastrack changes...it says WRX STi "separate line from WRX".
I've got a 2004 Rulebook that seems to have some of the Fastrack changes...it says WRX STi "separate line from WRX".
| del105 | 05-25-2004 09:20 AM |
I called this morning the spoiler delete is not an option, I guess it was just wishful thinking.
[QUOTE]Removal of factory trim is only permitted if the resultant configuration is an allowed update or backdate. [/QUOTE]
This is the SP rule i don't know about with regards to the wing. It says this but then goes on to say.
[QUOTE]It is a production rear spoiler which is standard or optional equipment of a U.S. model of the vehicle, or an exact replica in an alternate material.
It is a non-production rear spoiler which is mounted to the rearmost portion of the rear hatch, deck, or trunk lid. The spoiler may extend no more than 10 inches from the original bodywork in any direction. Alternatively, in a hatchback, the spoiler may be mounted to the rear hatch lid at or near the top of the hatch; in such a configuration the spoiler may extend no more than 4 inches from the original bodywork in any direction. The spoiler may be no wider than the bodywork, and it shall not protrude beyond the overall perimeter of the bodywork as viewed from above. The use of endplates is prohibited. Angle of attack is free. The spoiler may not function as a wing.
[/QUOTE]
So I guess you get the giant bookshelf on the back of your car forever.
[QUOTE]Removal of factory trim is only permitted if the resultant configuration is an allowed update or backdate. [/QUOTE]
This is the SP rule i don't know about with regards to the wing. It says this but then goes on to say.
[QUOTE]It is a production rear spoiler which is standard or optional equipment of a U.S. model of the vehicle, or an exact replica in an alternate material.
It is a non-production rear spoiler which is mounted to the rearmost portion of the rear hatch, deck, or trunk lid. The spoiler may extend no more than 10 inches from the original bodywork in any direction. Alternatively, in a hatchback, the spoiler may be mounted to the rear hatch lid at or near the top of the hatch; in such a configuration the spoiler may extend no more than 4 inches from the original bodywork in any direction. The spoiler may be no wider than the bodywork, and it shall not protrude beyond the overall perimeter of the bodywork as viewed from above. The use of endplates is prohibited. Angle of attack is free. The spoiler may not function as a wing.
[/QUOTE]
So I guess you get the giant bookshelf on the back of your car forever.
| MNbiker | 05-25-2004 12:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zoomfactor [/i]
[B]I've got a 2004 Rulebook that seems to have some of the Fastrack changes...it says WRX STi "separate line from WRX". [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, the WRX & STi are currently on separate lines. This makes it easy for the SCCA to move the STi to BSP, if they choose to do so. There has been some speculation that the STi & WRX may end up on the same line, if the STi stays in ESP. I'm hoping for that outcome, as I'd love to have an STi Wagon! :devil:
-Steve
[B]I've got a 2004 Rulebook that seems to have some of the Fastrack changes...it says WRX STi "separate line from WRX". [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, the WRX & STi are currently on separate lines. This makes it easy for the SCCA to move the STi to BSP, if they choose to do so. There has been some speculation that the STi & WRX may end up on the same line, if the STi stays in ESP. I'm hoping for that outcome, as I'd love to have an STi Wagon! :devil:
-Steve
| zzyzx | 05-25-2004 12:48 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Patrick Olsen [/i]
[B]I don't know who AUTOwrXER is - is he a very good driver? :)
[/B][/QUOTE]
The most relevant comment in this thread.
If you think you're going to go to Nats and clean-up, you're probably in for a big disappointment.
It's almost June. A fully prepped SP car isn't a 3-4 month exercise. Of course, if you have both a lot of spare time and money, that can speed things up.
Be a little more realistic in your goals and you can still keep this whole thing fun. :)
- Steve
[B]I don't know who AUTOwrXER is - is he a very good driver? :)
[/B][/QUOTE]
The most relevant comment in this thread.
If you think you're going to go to Nats and clean-up, you're probably in for a big disappointment.
It's almost June. A fully prepped SP car isn't a 3-4 month exercise. Of course, if you have both a lot of spare time and money, that can speed things up.
Be a little more realistic in your goals and you can still keep this whole thing fun. :)
- Steve
| afpdl | 05-25-2004 03:25 PM |
The rule says you can add a spolier but nothing about taking off a stock one unless its an option. So couldnt you take off the stock spoiler and replace it with somthing you call a spoiler that only weighs a few lbs, such as a mines spoiler?
| trojan9x | 05-25-2004 04:56 PM |
That sounds possible
| AUTOwrXER | 05-25-2004 05:34 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zzyzx[/i]
[B] The most relevant comment in this thread.
If you think you're going to go to Nats and clean-up, you're probably in for a big disappointment.
It's almost June. A fully prepped SP car isn't a 3-4 month exercise. Of course, if you have both a lot of spare time and money, that can speed things up.
Be a little more realistic in your goals and you can still keep this whole thing fun. :)
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Steve,
I never said I was going to "clean up" at Nationals. I know full well what reaction I will get from grid when I show up with a prepped STi in ESP, hence the title of this post. I am a capable driver, with two Atlanta region championships to prove it (not class championships, but our overall indexed championship amoungst all classes). There are a number of national champions that run with me in Atlanta that would back this up.
It is no small task to get a car fully prepped for ESP in a few months. I will probably be 80% there by Nationals, but if the car stays in ESP then I think I've got a good shot (assuming that I drive to my ability, which is a big assumption)
Also, if you had ever met me and hang out at a race, you'd know that I'm always having a blast win or lose. There's nothing more than bragging rights at stake here, and I think you'd find that I keep that in perspective more than most. That's a big part of why it gives me so much pleasure to watch the big iron drivers whine and complain before a wheel is even turned.
Joel
[B] The most relevant comment in this thread.
If you think you're going to go to Nats and clean-up, you're probably in for a big disappointment.
It's almost June. A fully prepped SP car isn't a 3-4 month exercise. Of course, if you have both a lot of spare time and money, that can speed things up.
Be a little more realistic in your goals and you can still keep this whole thing fun. :)
- Steve [/B][/QUOTE]
Steve,
I never said I was going to "clean up" at Nationals. I know full well what reaction I will get from grid when I show up with a prepped STi in ESP, hence the title of this post. I am a capable driver, with two Atlanta region championships to prove it (not class championships, but our overall indexed championship amoungst all classes). There are a number of national champions that run with me in Atlanta that would back this up.
It is no small task to get a car fully prepped for ESP in a few months. I will probably be 80% there by Nationals, but if the car stays in ESP then I think I've got a good shot (assuming that I drive to my ability, which is a big assumption)
Also, if you had ever met me and hang out at a race, you'd know that I'm always having a blast win or lose. There's nothing more than bragging rights at stake here, and I think you'd find that I keep that in perspective more than most. That's a big part of why it gives me so much pleasure to watch the big iron drivers whine and complain before a wheel is even turned.
Joel
| afpdl | 05-25-2004 05:37 PM |
And they do whine and complain.
| DrBiggly | 05-25-2004 06:43 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] And they do whine and complain. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep!
[B] And they do whine and complain. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep!
| zzyzx | 05-25-2004 08:11 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AUTOwrXER [/i]
[B]Also, if you had ever met me and hang out at a race, you'd know that I'm always having a blast win or lose. There's nothing more than bragging rights at stake here, and I think you'd find that I keep that in perspective more than most. That's a big part of why it gives me so much pleasure to watch the big iron drivers whine and complain before a wheel is even turned.
Joel [/B][/QUOTE]
Fair enough.
And I don't blame you and agree with the other posters on the never ending complaints from the ESP zealots (stalwarts?). It does get tiresome and it never seems to stop...
See you at Nats. Look me up in DSP. I'll be fighting on another front - against the BMW crowd. :) However, if I beat your raw ESP time, you owe me a beer, ok? :alien:
- Steve
[B]Also, if you had ever met me and hang out at a race, you'd know that I'm always having a blast win or lose. There's nothing more than bragging rights at stake here, and I think you'd find that I keep that in perspective more than most. That's a big part of why it gives me so much pleasure to watch the big iron drivers whine and complain before a wheel is even turned.
Joel [/B][/QUOTE]
Fair enough.
And I don't blame you and agree with the other posters on the never ending complaints from the ESP zealots (stalwarts?). It does get tiresome and it never seems to stop...
See you at Nats. Look me up in DSP. I'll be fighting on another front - against the BMW crowd. :) However, if I beat your raw ESP time, you owe me a beer, ok? :alien:
- Steve
| KC | 05-25-2004 08:18 PM |
Mmmm Beeeeeeerr
And if I beat both your times.. you both owe me a beer each.
YEAH!
And if I beat both your times.. you both owe me a beer each.
YEAH!
| MNbiker | 05-25-2004 10:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Mmmm Beeeeeeerr
And if I beat both your times.. you both owe me a beer each.
YEAH! [/B][/QUOTE]
Speaking of beer, have you reserved our party room at the Candlewood yet? [IMG]http://home.comcast.net/~stevegarnjobst/beer.gif[/IMG]
[B]Mmmm Beeeeeeerr
And if I beat both your times.. you both owe me a beer each.
YEAH! [/B][/QUOTE]
Speaking of beer, have you reserved our party room at the Candlewood yet? [IMG]http://home.comcast.net/~stevegarnjobst/beer.gif[/IMG]
| Scoobie Doogie | 05-26-2004 12:36 AM |
The latest Fastrack points out in the Tech Bulletins that the STi is on a separate line in ESP from the regular WRX. You guys are right though. It is most likely going to BSP. I think the STi could clean up at nationals. I have seen results of an AS STi on Kumhos come close to a Strano prepared Camaro for ESP. Granted Larry Fine was driving the STi, the scoobie has merit as a great competitor. I personally think that a fully prepped (or even partially prepped) STi could take the cake at Nationals with the right pilot. Maybe someone could give KC a ride? He's the master scoobie driver here. (and Mazda).
Dave
Dave
| KC | 05-26-2004 07:27 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scoobie Doogie[/i]
[B] Maybe someone could give KC a ride? He's the master scoobie driver here. (and Mazda).
Dave [/B][/QUOTE]
You guys hear that? :p Neener neener nee-ner! :p
You get: 3 bananas and a monkey!
:banana: :banana: :disco: :banana: :lol:
(I'm doing STX at nats.. but great idea)
[B] Maybe someone could give KC a ride? He's the master scoobie driver here. (and Mazda).
Dave [/B][/QUOTE]
You guys hear that? :p Neener neener nee-ner! :p
You get: 3 bananas and a monkey!
:banana: :banana: :disco: :banana: :lol:
(I'm doing STX at nats.. but great idea)
| Scoobie Doogie | 05-26-2004 09:10 AM |
Mmmm...nanners and a pet monkey.
Dave
P.S. I still think a stock STi that is well driven can win AS at all but the national events on open courses.
Dave
P.S. I still think a stock STi that is well driven can win AS at all but the national events on open courses.
| trhoppe | 05-26-2004 09:22 AM |
Larry Fine is a damn good driver and he's on POS Kumhos and OTS Konis. He was 0.3 behind strano at an event last weekend with his AS car. I believe that an STi can clean up at the Pros and win the Tours well prepped with real shocks and real tires. I also think said STi in AS trim would clean up ESP as well.
Last but not least, Joel will kick some serious butt in ESP locally, regionally, and nationally if he gets on a real tire.
I still think you have been "tire challenged" the entire time you have autoxed the STX car.....
-Tom
all previous comments might be retracted after I see the kozlaks run their C4 in AS in DC.......
Last but not least, Joel will kick some serious butt in ESP locally, regionally, and nationally if he gets on a real tire.
I still think you have been "tire challenged" the entire time you have autoxed the STX car.....
-Tom
all previous comments might be retracted after I see the kozlaks run their C4 in AS in DC.......
| Scoobie Doogie | 05-26-2004 09:43 AM |
Joel,
Have you notice if the front diff pulls the car through turns? I have driven the 04 STi and it feels "funky" to say the least. Have you driven both 04 and 05?
Rumor has it that you can stuff 275's under the stock fenders of the STi. Has anyone tried that yet?
I am a bit curious about the 05 STi's improvements.
Dave
Have you notice if the front diff pulls the car through turns? I have driven the 04 STi and it feels "funky" to say the least. Have you driven both 04 and 05?
Rumor has it that you can stuff 275's under the stock fenders of the STi. Has anyone tried that yet?
I am a bit curious about the 05 STi's improvements.
Dave
| KC | 05-26-2004 09:48 AM |
[QUOTE]Larry Fine is a damn good driver and he's on POS Kumhos and OTS Konis. He was 0.3 behind strano at an event last weekend with his AS car. I believe that an STi can clean up at the Pros and win the Tours well prepped with real shocks and real tires. I also think said STi in AS trim would clean up ESP as well.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 01 FS Z28 (Sam Strano) on SCCAForums:
I wasn't on my 315's because it was a local event and I want to save them for the upcoming 5 Nationals in the next 6 weeks.[/QUOTE]
Sam wasn't on his 'best/preferred' tires either. Funny how results can be skewed one way, isn't it? It's all about perception.
--kC
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 01 FS Z28 (Sam Strano) on SCCAForums:
I wasn't on my 315's because it was a local event and I want to save them for the upcoming 5 Nationals in the next 6 weeks.[/QUOTE]
Sam wasn't on his 'best/preferred' tires either. Funny how results can be skewed one way, isn't it? It's all about perception.
--kC
| trhoppe | 05-26-2004 09:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] Sam wasn't on his 'best/preferred' tires either. Funny how results can be skewed one way, isn't it? It's all about perception.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
What a bastard :lol:
I wonder why he left that off the EVO mailing
:furious:
-Tom
[B] Sam wasn't on his 'best/preferred' tires either. Funny how results can be skewed one way, isn't it? It's all about perception.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
What a bastard :lol:
I wonder why he left that off the EVO mailing
:furious:
-Tom
| KC | 05-26-2004 10:04 AM |
For the latest news, reports and bickering on the subject, please point your browser to here:
[url]http://www.sccaforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/19/258/10.html?[/url]
--kC
[url]http://www.sccaforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/19/258/10.html?[/url]
--kC
| 10th Warrior | 05-26-2004 10:43 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Mmmm Beeeeeeerr
And if I beat both your times.. you both owe me a beer each.
YEAH! [/B][/QUOTE]
and if i get within 2 seconds of any of your times, you owe me a shot of jager :)
[B]Mmmm Beeeeeeerr
And if I beat both your times.. you both owe me a beer each.
YEAH! [/B][/QUOTE]
and if i get within 2 seconds of any of your times, you owe me a shot of jager :)
| trhoppe | 05-26-2004 10:44 AM |
Where is my beer?
-Tom
-Tom
| KC | 05-26-2004 10:46 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] Where is my beer?
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
You mean you're going to be fast4r? :lol:
[B] Where is my beer?
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
You mean you're going to be fast4r? :lol:
| trhoppe | 05-26-2004 11:04 AM |
NO idea, I just want beer
-Tom
-Tom
| Watkinsm3 | 05-26-2004 11:19 AM |
I'll take some beers too...
| DrBiggly | 05-26-2004 12:04 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] NO idea, I just want beer
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
[B] NO idea, I just want beer
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol:
| WRX_Mundi | 05-26-2004 12:16 PM |
I've thought about posting on the sccaforums or evolution thread, and always stopped myself since it never works out (90% of the people misinterpret what I meant to say or pick out one phrase out of context and run with it). Maybe this will be a safer forum. Here are some of my thoughts on the matter. Note that I drive an STi in ESP and I've never attended a national event. My opinion? I like ESP of course, but I don't have much hard data either way. I have run PAX calculations with my car in BSP and it doesn't change much (three of the 6 events this year don't change at all). Admittedly 60-80 person local events with no national drivers.
- "Subarus go faster stock than modified." Stupid cheap shot that JW should knock off. The STi's, from what I can see, aren't competitive in AS. But where else do you put them? There isn't anywhere that fits, so they go in AS where they lose. Heck, Ann Hollis drove my (admittedly bone stock) STi last year and she said that she thought it was way better than the other Subarus she has driven, but not even close to AS Corvettes. In ESP it is definitely competitive -- arguably too much so, but certainly a better fit.
- "Look at Atwater! An Evo won! The sky is falling!" Come on -- the Evo that won ESP wouldn't have even [i]trophied[/i] in BS, much less AS. Must we conveniently ignore the other events? We'll really have to see how nationals turns out and hope the conditions are similar for the two groups.
- "The Evo RS and MR are so much better, so we need to get these cars out now." People believing a car companies marketing. The RS isn't that much more lightweight (since the comparison model they use has all the trimmings including the sunroof), and a lot of the weight can be taken out in SP anyway. The MR does sound nice and [i]if[/i] they really can trim 300 pounds off of it, might be an issue. You could always split the high end limited models into a higher class -- while it would be nice to put all the trims in one class, it wouldn't be the first time they got split (look at the twenty variations on the Mustang, for example) -- you could always put the Evo MR and STi Type RA Spec C Rev NA in BSP.
- My car never makes even 13 psi at our events (3000 feet). It can make more in 4th gear on the highway, but 2nd just doesn't cut it. I'm lucky to hit mid-12s. This is with a turboback exhaust. Data from
- In my opinion, a full turboback is a huge difference on this car and a big help at autocrosses. The car has much more down-low power and it builds a lot faster. After the obvious driver and race tires, this is my choice for number one modification. You can't do this in AS, but you'd expect Street Prepared to have it. I'd vote for camber plates/bolts for my number two -- again not allowed in stock. I changed springs and left the struts alone, so I have no idea how they'd compare. Just thouight it was interesting that people haven't mentioned this as if they think a stock STi would be a class killer, wait until they drive an SP one.
- On an '04 STi, Larry is proof you can do 255 Victos on 7.5" rims. I suspect my 8.5" rims with 245 tires get more width to the ground. I've been told that 255s on 8.5" rims will not work, and I believe it. The 245s are a tight fit in the rear. No chance in heck for 275s. The '05 has more room, and a serious ESP competitor will get out the sawz-all or the checkbook and run big Hoosiers on a 10" rim either way. A lot of the serious ESP Camaros I see are running [i]huge[/i] rims and tires with obvious fender modification.
- I do see some point in keeping ESP as it is. I really do. I feel sympathy with the SEB which has to make these tough decisions which have no good answer, just various less bad ones. I also see some merit in the idea that the Evo and STi are the Japanese muscle cars, so in they go, and ala S2000 in BS may end up being the new class leader (or may not -- those 10 year old pony cars can go fast if prepared and driven right).
- If we do go to BSP, then it will be interesting to see how many people go to SM. I've thought I might as well, but I like not having to compete with the tuner shop's project cars which always seem to take the top SM spots around here, and it is nice to have a limitation on how much I have to spend to prepare my car to 70-90% of the limit. But it would be so much easier to use the SM rules, and heck I get the same PAX anyway. This is a more personal issue -- I doubt the SEB gives it much weight if any. Maybe if we got the Corvettes out of BSP....
Just my thoughts from running an STi. I have no idea how much of my local results are car and how much driver. I felt guilty last year for crushing our local ESP people with a stock car on the stock tires, but after I got my a** handed to me at a Wendover event by an old Mustang, I felt a little better. With a reasonably prepared SP car, I was competitive with another region's leading ESP Camaro -- not an overdog. Cal Craner's nationally mid-pack AS Corvette beat us by a second each day. I'm not nearly the driver Cal is, so it is a very fuzzy comparison.
- "Subarus go faster stock than modified." Stupid cheap shot that JW should knock off. The STi's, from what I can see, aren't competitive in AS. But where else do you put them? There isn't anywhere that fits, so they go in AS where they lose. Heck, Ann Hollis drove my (admittedly bone stock) STi last year and she said that she thought it was way better than the other Subarus she has driven, but not even close to AS Corvettes. In ESP it is definitely competitive -- arguably too much so, but certainly a better fit.
- "Look at Atwater! An Evo won! The sky is falling!" Come on -- the Evo that won ESP wouldn't have even [i]trophied[/i] in BS, much less AS. Must we conveniently ignore the other events? We'll really have to see how nationals turns out and hope the conditions are similar for the two groups.
- "The Evo RS and MR are so much better, so we need to get these cars out now." People believing a car companies marketing. The RS isn't that much more lightweight (since the comparison model they use has all the trimmings including the sunroof), and a lot of the weight can be taken out in SP anyway. The MR does sound nice and [i]if[/i] they really can trim 300 pounds off of it, might be an issue. You could always split the high end limited models into a higher class -- while it would be nice to put all the trims in one class, it wouldn't be the first time they got split (look at the twenty variations on the Mustang, for example) -- you could always put the Evo MR and STi Type RA Spec C Rev NA in BSP.
- My car never makes even 13 psi at our events (3000 feet). It can make more in 4th gear on the highway, but 2nd just doesn't cut it. I'm lucky to hit mid-12s. This is with a turboback exhaust. Data from
- In my opinion, a full turboback is a huge difference on this car and a big help at autocrosses. The car has much more down-low power and it builds a lot faster. After the obvious driver and race tires, this is my choice for number one modification. You can't do this in AS, but you'd expect Street Prepared to have it. I'd vote for camber plates/bolts for my number two -- again not allowed in stock. I changed springs and left the struts alone, so I have no idea how they'd compare. Just thouight it was interesting that people haven't mentioned this as if they think a stock STi would be a class killer, wait until they drive an SP one.
- On an '04 STi, Larry is proof you can do 255 Victos on 7.5" rims. I suspect my 8.5" rims with 245 tires get more width to the ground. I've been told that 255s on 8.5" rims will not work, and I believe it. The 245s are a tight fit in the rear. No chance in heck for 275s. The '05 has more room, and a serious ESP competitor will get out the sawz-all or the checkbook and run big Hoosiers on a 10" rim either way. A lot of the serious ESP Camaros I see are running [i]huge[/i] rims and tires with obvious fender modification.
- I do see some point in keeping ESP as it is. I really do. I feel sympathy with the SEB which has to make these tough decisions which have no good answer, just various less bad ones. I also see some merit in the idea that the Evo and STi are the Japanese muscle cars, so in they go, and ala S2000 in BS may end up being the new class leader (or may not -- those 10 year old pony cars can go fast if prepared and driven right).
- If we do go to BSP, then it will be interesting to see how many people go to SM. I've thought I might as well, but I like not having to compete with the tuner shop's project cars which always seem to take the top SM spots around here, and it is nice to have a limitation on how much I have to spend to prepare my car to 70-90% of the limit. But it would be so much easier to use the SM rules, and heck I get the same PAX anyway. This is a more personal issue -- I doubt the SEB gives it much weight if any. Maybe if we got the Corvettes out of BSP....
Just my thoughts from running an STi. I have no idea how much of my local results are car and how much driver. I felt guilty last year for crushing our local ESP people with a stock car on the stock tires, but after I got my a** handed to me at a Wendover event by an old Mustang, I felt a little better. With a reasonably prepared SP car, I was competitive with another region's leading ESP Camaro -- not an overdog. Cal Craner's nationally mid-pack AS Corvette beat us by a second each day. I'm not nearly the driver Cal is, so it is a very fuzzy comparison.
| gotsol | 05-26-2004 01:31 PM |
Awesome Joel, good luck.
Maybe I can get a ride sometime.
What are you doing with your WRX?
Patrick D'auria
Maybe I can get a ride sometime.
What are you doing with your WRX?
Patrick D'auria
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