| dowroa | 08-23-2006 10:11 PM |
Wow. Since I am not a big shot, and after watching the video, I am just glad to hear that everyone is OK. If I continue onto track racing, I hope I as fortunate to talk away.
Wow.... I think I am going to go wash my car and talk nicely to it now..
- dow
Wow.... I think I am going to go wash my car and talk nicely to it now..
- dow
| silver04rs | 08-23-2006 10:12 PM |
And heres some "Current" video
05 season review: (check out the progression)
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9..._car/champs.wmv[/url]
This past April at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...20the%2036s.wmv[/url]
Last October at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...J%2010-2-05.wmv[/url]
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
And for everyone that might forget, SFR is teh most competitive region in the US, with the fastest drivers and the best tracks
Travis Brock
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
05 season review: (check out the progression)
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9..._car/champs.wmv[/url]
This past April at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...20the%2036s.wmv[/url]
Last October at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...J%2010-2-05.wmv[/url]
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
And for everyone that might forget, SFR is teh most competitive region in the US, with the fastest drivers and the best tracks
Travis Brock
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
| silver arrow | 08-23-2006 10:14 PM |
Nice looking car, glad you rebounded. Too bad that something so enjoyable (our love for cars and racing) has to turn so nasty on the internet. It's funny, if we were all in the same room, most of these people wouldn't have anything to say. Keep enjoying what you do, my dream is to win the lottery and buy a couple of 911 RSR's to race with my Dad. Until then, I'll keep autocrossing my STi and enjoy a track day now and then. Don't have the money or balls to push my poor daily driver like that, he was really moving. Anyone can make a mistake, it's a crazy condition we call "being human".
| silver arrow | 08-23-2006 10:16 PM |
[QUOTE=silver04rs]And heres some "Current" video
05 season review: (check out the progression)
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9..._car/champs.wmv[/url]
This past April at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...20the%2036s.wmv[/url]
Last October at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...J%2010-2-05.wmv[/url]
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
And for everyone that might forget, SFR is teh most competitive region in the US, with the fastest drivers and the best tracks
Travis Brock
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url][/QUOTE]
None of the vids work. Would love to see them.
05 season review: (check out the progression)
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9..._car/champs.wmv[/url]
This past April at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...20the%2036s.wmv[/url]
Last October at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...J%2010-2-05.wmv[/url]
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
And for everyone that might forget, SFR is teh most competitive region in the US, with the fastest drivers and the best tracks
Travis Brock
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url][/QUOTE]
None of the vids work. Would love to see them.
| silver04rs | 08-23-2006 11:07 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]None of the vids work. Would love to see them.[/QUOTE]
Heres the link to ALL of our Videos, new and old
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/92-silver_car/[/url]
Travis Brock
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
Heres the link to ALL of our Videos, new and old
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/92-silver_car/[/url]
Travis Brock
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
| WRXedUSA | 08-24-2006 01:18 AM |
Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache/1.3.37 Server at [url]www.muellerized.com[/url] Port 80
Owned!
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
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Apache/1.3.37 Server at [url]www.muellerized.com[/url] Port 80
Owned!
| benw | 08-24-2006 02:31 AM |
someone's gonna have a fat hosting bill this month.
| Kostamojen | 08-24-2006 03:18 AM |
[QUOTE=silver04rs]
If your all such great racers why dont you come out to a race and show us how its really done? Im not saying to come out and run a full season but just do 1 race...... 1 race to show us the proper line and how to go fast. And your also welome to come to Thunderhill, Laguna Seca, and Seiers Point and beat our lap reacords in class.
[/QUOTE]
For real? Are you offering us the chance to borrow a preped car to go around the track once! Sign us up!
:banana: :disco: :banana: :disco:
If your all such great racers why dont you come out to a race and show us how its really done? Im not saying to come out and run a full season but just do 1 race...... 1 race to show us the proper line and how to go fast. And your also welome to come to Thunderhill, Laguna Seca, and Seiers Point and beat our lap reacords in class.
[/QUOTE]
For real? Are you offering us the chance to borrow a preped car to go around the track once! Sign us up!
:banana: :disco: :banana: :disco:
| KC | 08-24-2006 07:54 AM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]It's funny, if we were all in the same room, most of these people wouldn't have anything to say. [/QUOTE]Really? If you showed that video to a room full of racers and the like, they'd all say the same thing, IN PERSON. The guy was early apexing. It's called [I]critique[/i]. Are we saying the guy is 'dumb' or insulting him as a person? Not really. He was just driving like an amature. Since it was pointed out that the video was early last year..... OK. Puzzle pieces come together.
However, I didn't even notice the date on the video, so thanks for pointing that out and it makes sense now. Someone early in their days on the track in a car unfamiliar with them, mistakes will be made. Some greater than others.
Sometimes people just need to learn the hard way through having 'been there, done that'. Even in the 'newer' videos, you can see him continue to early apex, but not as often.
--kC
However, I didn't even notice the date on the video, so thanks for pointing that out and it makes sense now. Someone early in their days on the track in a car unfamiliar with them, mistakes will be made. Some greater than others.
Sometimes people just need to learn the hard way through having 'been there, done that'. Even in the 'newer' videos, you can see him continue to early apex, but not as often.
--kC
| dowroa | 08-24-2006 08:18 AM |
"Friends don't let friends apex early".
Oh, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that KC, trhoppe and the majority of the motorsports forum guys WILL tell you what you are doing wrong to your face with a straight face.
Of course, they are all blindingly fast and National Champs.... well, except for Tom ;)
Good to see everyone is alright, and early apex or no, he is still on track and doing better than I. :)
- dow
Oh, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that KC, trhoppe and the majority of the motorsports forum guys WILL tell you what you are doing wrong to your face with a straight face.
Of course, they are all blindingly fast and National Champs.... well, except for Tom ;)
Good to see everyone is alright, and early apex or no, he is still on track and doing better than I. :)
- dow
| KC | 08-24-2006 08:27 AM |
This years SFR Results.... [url]http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevents.jsp?st=3&org=32147[/url]
[QUOTE]Fran Chisum Memorial (Infineon)
Win by 1:46
5 Cars made the 16 laps out of 10 cars in the field
Best time 1.51.454
Race #2 (Laguna)
Win by 59 seconds
4 cars made the 16 laps out of 12 cars
Best time 1.36.800
Race #3 (Thunderhill)
Race 1 - Win by 58 seconds
6 cars made the 14 laps out of 13 cars
Best time 1.57.995
Race 2 - Win by 48 seconds
6 cars made the 11 laps out of 11 cars
Best time 1.57.945
Race #4 (Thunderhill)
Win by 1:14
7 cars made the 15 laps out of 13 cars
Best time 1.59.882
Race #5 (Infineon)
Race 1 - Win by 26 seconds
7 cars made the 17 laps out of 13 cars
Best time 1.44.701
Race 2 - Kent did not enter (John Mueller DNF)
Best time DNF
Race #6 (Thunderhill)
Win by 48 seconds
7 cars made the 15 laps out of 13 cars
Best time 1.58.785
Race #7 (Thunderhill)
Win by 30 seconds
5 cars made the 14 laps out of 11 cars
Best time 1.58.941[/QUOTE]
The closest race I see is when he won by 26 seconds at Infenon. What does that mean to me? You guys make more power than the rest of the field. How can I come to that conclusion? (But I wasn't there! I don't race!)
Every single race the EVO has a 3-4 more mph 'best speed' than the rest of the field (which are all pretty much close to each other). It sticks out like a sore thumb when you have a standout like that. Yes, driving plays a part of that, to deny it would be rediculous of me... but it looks to *me* that you guys just have a better/more powerful car than anyone else running out there.
Congrats! You paid more for the win. As in most forms of auto racing... those with the deeper pockets usually win. Someone 'on a shoe string budget' as mentioned before will only be winning classes until someone with deeper pockets comes along.
--kC
[QUOTE]Fran Chisum Memorial (Infineon)
Win by 1:46
5 Cars made the 16 laps out of 10 cars in the field
Best time 1.51.454
Race #2 (Laguna)
Win by 59 seconds
4 cars made the 16 laps out of 12 cars
Best time 1.36.800
Race #3 (Thunderhill)
Race 1 - Win by 58 seconds
6 cars made the 14 laps out of 13 cars
Best time 1.57.995
Race 2 - Win by 48 seconds
6 cars made the 11 laps out of 11 cars
Best time 1.57.945
Race #4 (Thunderhill)
Win by 1:14
7 cars made the 15 laps out of 13 cars
Best time 1.59.882
Race #5 (Infineon)
Race 1 - Win by 26 seconds
7 cars made the 17 laps out of 13 cars
Best time 1.44.701
Race 2 - Kent did not enter (John Mueller DNF)
Best time DNF
Race #6 (Thunderhill)
Win by 48 seconds
7 cars made the 15 laps out of 13 cars
Best time 1.58.785
Race #7 (Thunderhill)
Win by 30 seconds
5 cars made the 14 laps out of 11 cars
Best time 1.58.941[/QUOTE]
The closest race I see is when he won by 26 seconds at Infenon. What does that mean to me? You guys make more power than the rest of the field. How can I come to that conclusion? (But I wasn't there! I don't race!)
Every single race the EVO has a 3-4 more mph 'best speed' than the rest of the field (which are all pretty much close to each other). It sticks out like a sore thumb when you have a standout like that. Yes, driving plays a part of that, to deny it would be rediculous of me... but it looks to *me* that you guys just have a better/more powerful car than anyone else running out there.
Congrats! You paid more for the win. As in most forms of auto racing... those with the deeper pockets usually win. Someone 'on a shoe string budget' as mentioned before will only be winning classes until someone with deeper pockets comes along.
--kC
| elgorey | 08-24-2006 11:33 AM |
[QUOTE=silver04rs]1 or 2 cars... are you high? When was the last time you checked the results in a SCCS SFR ITE race? We start with a very large feild so I dont know where you get 1 or 2 cars
[/QUOTE]
Oh really? So then you know that ITE is a regional-only class with localized rules. Its a [b]catch-all[/b] class with huge disparity in car speeds and car prep. What ruleset is the car built to? (my guess: none) or does your local region allow completely open rules in ITE?
ITE is essentially a contest of who can spend the most money.
Put this guy in a [i]competitive[/i] class like SpecMiata or SpecRacer Ford, or one of the IT classes where you cant spend your way into a win as easily, before you try stroke your own dick over 20 wins or whatever.
While you may collect all kinds of sackswingers on your evo forums , anyone who knows a damn about racing knows that doesnt mean anything.
I wont even talk trash on the driver, maybe he is in fact the next coming of schumacher (although i doubt it from that video), but some ITE wins in a big money evo isnt proving it.
ps- "muellerized" is the butt of quite a few jokes out in internetland right now. Are you really aware of how stupid it sounds?
[/QUOTE]
Oh really? So then you know that ITE is a regional-only class with localized rules. Its a [b]catch-all[/b] class with huge disparity in car speeds and car prep. What ruleset is the car built to? (my guess: none) or does your local region allow completely open rules in ITE?
ITE is essentially a contest of who can spend the most money.
Put this guy in a [i]competitive[/i] class like SpecMiata or SpecRacer Ford, or one of the IT classes where you cant spend your way into a win as easily, before you try stroke your own dick over 20 wins or whatever.
While you may collect all kinds of sackswingers on your evo forums , anyone who knows a damn about racing knows that doesnt mean anything.
I wont even talk trash on the driver, maybe he is in fact the next coming of schumacher (although i doubt it from that video), but some ITE wins in a big money evo isnt proving it.
ps- "muellerized" is the butt of quite a few jokes out in internetland right now. Are you really aware of how stupid it sounds?
| silver arrow | 08-24-2006 11:33 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]Really? If you showed that video to a room full of racers and the like, they'd all say the same thing, IN PERSON. The guy was early apexing. It's called [I]critique[/i]. Are we saying the guy is 'dumb' or insulting him as a person? Not really. He was just driving like an amature. Since it was pointed out that the video was early last year..... OK. Puzzle pieces come together.
However, I didn't even notice the date on the video, so thanks for pointing that out and it makes sense now. Someone early in their days on the track in a car unfamiliar with them, mistakes will be made. Some greater than others.
Sometimes people just need to learn the hard way through having 'been there, done that'. Even in the 'newer' videos, you can see him continue to early apex, but not as often.
--kC[/QUOTE]
My comments were for the guys talking crap about Muellerized and in general about the team. He early apexed and made a mistake. We all have made mistakes before.
However, I didn't even notice the date on the video, so thanks for pointing that out and it makes sense now. Someone early in their days on the track in a car unfamiliar with them, mistakes will be made. Some greater than others.
Sometimes people just need to learn the hard way through having 'been there, done that'. Even in the 'newer' videos, you can see him continue to early apex, but not as often.
--kC[/QUOTE]
My comments were for the guys talking crap about Muellerized and in general about the team. He early apexed and made a mistake. We all have made mistakes before.
| kfoote | 08-24-2006 11:58 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]When I see that it costs upwards of $1000 per race, counting gas, hotel, travel, entry fees, brake pads, rotors, general pre-track maintenance, time from work, membership.... $1000 per race is STILL too expensive for MOST people.
What someone calls 'fiscally challenged' is still 'too much' for others is all I'm saying.
Heck, just to auto-x in Topeka this year it's going to be about $800 in gas ALONE for me to tow the car out there and back.
Those that make it, fine. But believe me, there are more people that WANT to be out there than those that CAN be out there.
I've known you on the forums for a long time. So yeah, I sort of know you. Your online persona anyways.
--kC[/QUOTE]
FWIW, my bottom of the barrell ultra-cheap SSB Miata cost me about $1200 per SCCA National race last year, excluding the Runoffs, which was about $2500.
Given that I've never been to Willow Springs, given the driving in that video, I'd figure it would take me about 20-30 laps to be faster than the driver in the original video at Willow Springs in a car I've never driven at a track I've never seen. I'm sure that there are others here (Gary Sheehan, most notably) who would take far less time than I would to get up to speed.
As far as cost of car prep goes, it's actually pretty easy to build an ITE car that's faster than a World Challenge car for less money. You have to remember that World Challenge has a pretty strict set of rules that restrict both power and handling ability. ITE does not. Thus, the World Challenge teams end up spending thousands of dollars looking for tenths of seconds, where in ITE, the same gains can be had for a lot less by doing things like turning up the boost a bit, using composite body panels, putting on wider, or better, tires, lowering the car below what is legal in WC, doing a bit of aero work, or removing the dash to save 15 lbs.
There's also a big difference between "making a mistake" and apexing a few feet early and consistently early apexing by 20 feet. One is a mistake, one is poor driving.
What someone calls 'fiscally challenged' is still 'too much' for others is all I'm saying.
Heck, just to auto-x in Topeka this year it's going to be about $800 in gas ALONE for me to tow the car out there and back.
Those that make it, fine. But believe me, there are more people that WANT to be out there than those that CAN be out there.
I've known you on the forums for a long time. So yeah, I sort of know you. Your online persona anyways.
--kC[/QUOTE]
FWIW, my bottom of the barrell ultra-cheap SSB Miata cost me about $1200 per SCCA National race last year, excluding the Runoffs, which was about $2500.
Given that I've never been to Willow Springs, given the driving in that video, I'd figure it would take me about 20-30 laps to be faster than the driver in the original video at Willow Springs in a car I've never driven at a track I've never seen. I'm sure that there are others here (Gary Sheehan, most notably) who would take far less time than I would to get up to speed.
As far as cost of car prep goes, it's actually pretty easy to build an ITE car that's faster than a World Challenge car for less money. You have to remember that World Challenge has a pretty strict set of rules that restrict both power and handling ability. ITE does not. Thus, the World Challenge teams end up spending thousands of dollars looking for tenths of seconds, where in ITE, the same gains can be had for a lot less by doing things like turning up the boost a bit, using composite body panels, putting on wider, or better, tires, lowering the car below what is legal in WC, doing a bit of aero work, or removing the dash to save 15 lbs.
There's also a big difference between "making a mistake" and apexing a few feet early and consistently early apexing by 20 feet. One is a mistake, one is poor driving.
| KC | 08-24-2006 12:40 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]My comments were for the guys talking crap about Muellerized and in general about the team. He early apexed and made a mistake. We all have made mistakes before.[/QUOTE]
You make it sound like he just did one early apex.... or just one mistake. This just one happened to be the biggest out of many in that short video that had him run out of talent a little earlier than others, causing the flip.
--kC
You make it sound like he just did one early apex.... or just one mistake. This just one happened to be the biggest out of many in that short video that had him run out of talent a little earlier than others, causing the flip.
--kC
| WRXedUSA | 08-24-2006 01:00 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]You make it sound like he just did one early apex.... or just one mistake. This just one happened to be the biggest out of many in that short video that had him run out of talent a little earlier than others, causing the flip.
--kC[/QUOTE]
123545xafew
[QUOTE=solo-x]Kent "Early Apex" Jordan. check out [url=http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1400702]this thread on h-t[/url] and follow the link to the evo board. funny stuff how he defends (and others defend) his line.[/QUOTE]
--kC[/QUOTE]
123545xafew
[QUOTE=solo-x]Kent "Early Apex" Jordan. check out [url=http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1400702]this thread on h-t[/url] and follow the link to the evo board. funny stuff how he defends (and others defend) his line.[/QUOTE]
| Patrick Olsen | 08-24-2006 01:36 PM |
[QUOTE=kfoote]Given that I've never been to Buttonwillow, given the driving in that video, I'd figure it would take me about 20-30 laps to be faster than the driver in the original video a Buttonwillow in a car I've never driven at a track I've never seen.[/QUOTE]
Just for clarification's sake, it's not Buttonwillow, it's Willow Springs. And congratulations on being God's gift to driving.
Pat
Just for clarification's sake, it's not Buttonwillow, it's Willow Springs. And congratulations on being God's gift to driving.
Pat
| solo-x | 08-24-2006 02:18 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen]Just for clarification's sake, it's not Buttonwillow, it's Willow Springs. And congratulations on being God's gift to driving.
Pat[/QUOTE]
that was hardly his point.
Pat[/QUOTE]
that was hardly his point.
| leecea | 08-24-2006 02:49 PM |
[QUOTE=solo-x]that was hardly his point.[/QUOTE]
What exactly is the point of this thread?
Someone with enough resources to build or buy a very fast car turns out to be a poor driver, gets in over his head, and crashes it. How many thouands of times has that happened before, on the road and on the track?
What exactly is the point of this thread?
Someone with enough resources to build or buy a very fast car turns out to be a poor driver, gets in over his head, and crashes it. How many thouands of times has that happened before, on the road and on the track?
| sachilles | 08-24-2006 03:18 PM |
at least one other time...[URL=http://acrosstheboard.blogspot.com/2006/02/dude-what-happened-to-your-car.html]http://acrosstheboard.blogspot.com/2006/02/dude-what-happened-to-your-car.html[/URL]
This one (the ford) was far more costly I think and caused by someone that had yet to experience a high horsepower ride.
[QUOTE=leecea]What exactly is the point of this thread?
Someone with enough resources to build or buy a very fast car turns out to be a poor driver, gets in over his head, and crashes it. How many thouands of times has that happened before, on the road and on the track?[/QUOTE]
This one (the ford) was far more costly I think and caused by someone that had yet to experience a high horsepower ride.
[QUOTE=leecea]What exactly is the point of this thread?
Someone with enough resources to build or buy a very fast car turns out to be a poor driver, gets in over his head, and crashes it. How many thouands of times has that happened before, on the road and on the track?[/QUOTE]
| kfoote | 08-24-2006 03:21 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen]Just for clarification's sake, it's not Buttonwillow, it's Willow Springs. And congratulations on being God's gift to driving.
Pat[/QUOTE]
I apologize, I have corrected the track in my post.
Though I do consider myself to be a decent driver, I am by no means "God's gift to driving". I have met several people who I would consider to be better drivers than I am. My point was that his driving really was that bad, even prior to the wreck.
Pat[/QUOTE]
I apologize, I have corrected the track in my post.
Though I do consider myself to be a decent driver, I am by no means "God's gift to driving". I have met several people who I would consider to be better drivers than I am. My point was that his driving really was that bad, even prior to the wreck.
| grippgoat | 08-24-2006 04:16 PM |
[QUOTE=leecea]What exactly is the point of this thread?
Someone with enough resources to build or buy a very fast car turns out to be a poor driver, gets in over his head, and crashes it. How many thouands of times has that happened before, on the road and on the track?[/QUOTE]
The point of this thread started out something like:
"Remember people, bad **** can happen on track. Safety first!"
Then it became:
"Remember people, don't early apex, and don't try and re-start the car after a crash."
Then it *could* have become:
"This guy was a novice when this video was made. This is why you shouldn't jump straight into a high-grip high-horsepower car when you're a novice, because things happen so fast that you don't have time to think about your own mistakes."
But instead it became trash talking. :(
-Mike
Someone with enough resources to build or buy a very fast car turns out to be a poor driver, gets in over his head, and crashes it. How many thouands of times has that happened before, on the road and on the track?[/QUOTE]
The point of this thread started out something like:
"Remember people, bad **** can happen on track. Safety first!"
Then it became:
"Remember people, don't early apex, and don't try and re-start the car after a crash."
Then it *could* have become:
"This guy was a novice when this video was made. This is why you shouldn't jump straight into a high-grip high-horsepower car when you're a novice, because things happen so fast that you don't have time to think about your own mistakes."
But instead it became trash talking. :(
-Mike
| FaastLegacy | 08-24-2006 04:52 PM |
[QUOTE=grippgoat]The point of this thread started out something like:
"Remember people, bad **** can happen on track. Safety first!"
Then it became:
"Remember people, don't early apex, and don't try and re-start the car after a crash."
Then it *could* have become:
"This guy was a novice when this video was made. This is why you shouldn't jump straight into a high-grip high-horsepower car when you're a novice, because things happen so fast that you don't have time to think about your own mistakes."
But instead it became trash talking. :(
-Mike[/QUOTE]
Really, it doesn't look like it got personal until someone came in trying to defend them. I see some really qualified people giving objective, valid criticism......and somebody took that personally. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen....
From a totally unbiased, uneducated standpoint:
I know next to nothing about SCCA racing and I don't claim to know anything. But it seems to me this "racing team", if you can call it that, is incredibly proud of "18 straight wins", most by a rather large margin for a ~15 lap race with ~1:5x lap times. That suggests to me that they enjoy a rather large disparity between their equipment and the competition. Taking this video into consideration, and the fact that he's an admitted novice, I doubt it's due to an overwhelming abundance of talent. I don't know that I'd be proud of the fact that I'm whupping on competition that has spent much less money than myself and likely has inferior equipment.
But again, those are just my observations....
"Remember people, bad **** can happen on track. Safety first!"
Then it became:
"Remember people, don't early apex, and don't try and re-start the car after a crash."
Then it *could* have become:
"This guy was a novice when this video was made. This is why you shouldn't jump straight into a high-grip high-horsepower car when you're a novice, because things happen so fast that you don't have time to think about your own mistakes."
But instead it became trash talking. :(
-Mike[/QUOTE]
Really, it doesn't look like it got personal until someone came in trying to defend them. I see some really qualified people giving objective, valid criticism......and somebody took that personally. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen....
From a totally unbiased, uneducated standpoint:
I know next to nothing about SCCA racing and I don't claim to know anything. But it seems to me this "racing team", if you can call it that, is incredibly proud of "18 straight wins", most by a rather large margin for a ~15 lap race with ~1:5x lap times. That suggests to me that they enjoy a rather large disparity between their equipment and the competition. Taking this video into consideration, and the fact that he's an admitted novice, I doubt it's due to an overwhelming abundance of talent. I don't know that I'd be proud of the fact that I'm whupping on competition that has spent much less money than myself and likely has inferior equipment.
But again, those are just my observations....
| PA04STI | 08-24-2006 06:22 PM |
[QUOTE=silver04rs]And heres some "Current" video
05 season review: (check out the progression)
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9..._car/champs.wmv[/url]
This past April at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...20the%2036s.wmv[/url]
Last October at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...J%2010-2-05.wmv[/url]
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
And for everyone that might forget, SFR is teh most competitive region in the US, with the fastest drivers and the best tracks
Travis Brock
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url][/QUOTE]
I just hope you guys aren't ******** there is no need for it. You professional or something.....NO. I am not accusing never met you guys to come up with an opinion, but in the one Crawford video of the time attack your driver came off to me as an arrogant prick... He then proceeded to drive his evo off the track...Although yes he got the 2nd time overall behind the skyline.
Matt
05 season review: (check out the progression)
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9..._car/champs.wmv[/url]
This past April at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...20the%2036s.wmv[/url]
Last October at Laguna:
[url]http://www.muellerized.com/videos/9...J%2010-2-05.wmv[/url]
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url]
And for everyone that might forget, SFR is teh most competitive region in the US, with the fastest drivers and the best tracks
Travis Brock
[url]www.muellerized.com[/url][/QUOTE]
I just hope you guys aren't ******** there is no need for it. You professional or something.....NO. I am not accusing never met you guys to come up with an opinion, but in the one Crawford video of the time attack your driver came off to me as an arrogant prick... He then proceeded to drive his evo off the track...Although yes he got the 2nd time overall behind the skyline.
Matt
| Need4speedTC | 08-24-2006 06:37 PM |
Nice cash!! if you have to do it why not go all out and donate your car to the junk yard
| frostyTSM | 08-24-2006 07:34 PM |
[QUOTE=Kostamojen]For real? Are you offering us the chance to borrow a preped car to go around the track once! Sign us up!
:banana: :disco: :banana: :disco:[/QUOTE]
I promiss I won't crash it.
:banana: :disco: :banana: :disco:[/QUOTE]
I promiss I won't crash it.
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 07:54 PM |
Hi there,
My name is Joshua. It's good to see freedom of speach is alive and well. It's true you can have any opinion you want and you can type it for the world to read. It's sad that people have tendency to take oppinion for fact. So I'll go through this thread, if allowed, and give some facts.
Yes I work at Muellerized. Yes I've given-up a lot to be able to work on fast cars at the race track. Yes I'm also long time Subi lover (been driving one for 17+years and we have a total of 2 in the family).
So then, though I might miss some, I'll go back to the start of this thread and work my way through.
Sorry in advance, type slow and spell poorly ;-)
Joshua West
My name is Joshua. It's good to see freedom of speach is alive and well. It's true you can have any opinion you want and you can type it for the world to read. It's sad that people have tendency to take oppinion for fact. So I'll go through this thread, if allowed, and give some facts.
Yes I work at Muellerized. Yes I've given-up a lot to be able to work on fast cars at the race track. Yes I'm also long time Subi lover (been driving one for 17+years and we have a total of 2 in the family).
So then, though I might miss some, I'll go back to the start of this thread and work my way through.
Sorry in advance, type slow and spell poorly ;-)
Joshua West
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 08:17 PM |
"is it me or does the rollcage look like its not even welded"
-the cage is welded
"EVOs are fast. STis are fast. Bad stuff happens on track. More badder stuff happens when you are moving that fast.
This wreck would have been ugly without that cage. Like "just pull the hearse straight up to the track" ugly.
I see waaaay too many EVOs and STis at track days without even rollbars. Get your safety equipment squared away before you worry about whatever 2,402,342 hp turbo you want to bolt on."
-yes, thank you elgorey. that's why we made this video available. people are taking lapping days too lightly. I thank God more people haven't been hurt
"Expensive car. Lack of driving skill. Big ego.
Doug Woods"
- Um, #1 it's an EVO. Costs same as an STI. That car had a White Bunny turbo, cams, injectors, and old AFC. Yes a lot a prep went into making it safe, but nothing to make it more expensive than another sedan. #2 maybe more a lack of experience. #3 Yep has some ego, Um, he's spending money to go racing, if you race and you think you have no ego, you're lying to yourself. The crash was more trying too hard too soon. It was a midweek test day.
Joshua West
-the cage is welded
"EVOs are fast. STis are fast. Bad stuff happens on track. More badder stuff happens when you are moving that fast.
This wreck would have been ugly without that cage. Like "just pull the hearse straight up to the track" ugly.
I see waaaay too many EVOs and STis at track days without even rollbars. Get your safety equipment squared away before you worry about whatever 2,402,342 hp turbo you want to bolt on."
-yes, thank you elgorey. that's why we made this video available. people are taking lapping days too lightly. I thank God more people haven't been hurt
"Expensive car. Lack of driving skill. Big ego.
Doug Woods"
- Um, #1 it's an EVO. Costs same as an STI. That car had a White Bunny turbo, cams, injectors, and old AFC. Yes a lot a prep went into making it safe, but nothing to make it more expensive than another sedan. #2 maybe more a lack of experience. #3 Yep has some ego, Um, he's spending money to go racing, if you race and you think you have no ego, you're lying to yourself. The crash was more trying too hard too soon. It was a midweek test day.
Joshua West
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 08:24 PM |
"2) he should have gotten off the gas and went off and then come back on. Its better to be safe than sorry really."
-Yep, well getting off the gas could have unsettled the car, causing other problems. What he was told to do is keep driving straight until he got to the pit-in. Then with both tires on pavement, come back on the track. 2 wheels in the dirt at the exit of 9 at WSIR is not an uncommon thing.
next one gets a post of its own.
Joshua West
-Yep, well getting off the gas could have unsettled the car, causing other problems. What he was told to do is keep driving straight until he got to the pit-in. Then with both tires on pavement, come back on the track. 2 wheels in the dirt at the exit of 9 at WSIR is not an uncommon thing.
next one gets a post of its own.
Joshua West
| WRXedUSA | 08-24-2006 08:28 PM |
[QUOTE=jwest92]"
- Um, #1 it's an EVO. Costs same as an STI. That car had a White Bunny turbo, cams, injectors, and old AFC. Yes a lot a prep went into making it safe, but nothing to make it more expensive than another sedan. #2 maybe more a lack of experience. #3 Yep has some ego, Um, he's spending money to go racing, if you race and you think you have no ego, you're lying to yourself. The crash was more trying too hard too soon. It was a midweek test day.
Joshua West[/QUOTE]
Umm, I don't think he was drawing a comparo to a STI.
- Um, #1 it's an EVO. Costs same as an STI. That car had a White Bunny turbo, cams, injectors, and old AFC. Yes a lot a prep went into making it safe, but nothing to make it more expensive than another sedan. #2 maybe more a lack of experience. #3 Yep has some ego, Um, he's spending money to go racing, if you race and you think you have no ego, you're lying to yourself. The crash was more trying too hard too soon. It was a midweek test day.
Joshua West[/QUOTE]
Umm, I don't think he was drawing a comparo to a STI.
| frostyTSM | 08-24-2006 08:33 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]Umm, I don't think he was drawing a comparo to a STI.[/QUOTE]
I can't afford an STi, nor Evo, nor any mods worth mentioning for my car.
Edit: I do appreciate you guys sharing this as a lesson to others.
I can't afford an STi, nor Evo, nor any mods worth mentioning for my car.
Edit: I do appreciate you guys sharing this as a lesson to others.
| kjslider | 08-24-2006 08:37 PM |
I've met the driver of that wrecked Evo and he's a real prick. He's even paid off some of his competitors to drive slower just so he could beat 'em.
| grippgoat | 08-24-2006 08:41 PM |
[QUOTE=FaastLegacy]... and the fact that he's an admitted novice[/QUOTE]
They only admitted to him being a novice when the video was taken.... With as much track time as he has now, he has to be at least intermediate by now. :)
-Mike
They only admitted to him being a novice when the video was taken.... With as much track time as he has now, he has to be at least intermediate by now. :)
-Mike
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 08:46 PM |
It's to bad there whole team is a bunch of a-holes. It seems like at every regional event were always next to each other, and I get to hear how full of them selves they are all day And from what I've heard, it's all the driver that is keeping the team down. If they didn't act like they were the most important team of the weekend, they would probably be more popular.
-Okay, post #25 on this thread (still on the first page). A great contribution from blue blurr. And people wonder why Brock is mad. For posting such a thing, it is most likely that you are an a-hole as well. (ok say it, takes one to know one, but, you already said it so, so what?) Besides your the type of e-tard that talks trash on the internet, but are too much of a puss to sign your name to it. If you have a problem with how we conduct ourselves at the track, come up and tell us. Maybe we can help you. If we weren't super friendly to you, it could have been that we had slept very little (to not at all), had just towed 500miles, or we were very focused on getting our car ready for the next session.
No our driver is not keeping us down. We're all works in progress. From John with his 30years experience to Mr. Brock whose coming to us from the rallyX side just this year, and including our driver. We're all doing the best we can to learn as fast as we can. Heh, sometimes it's a little ugly.
We're trying to win races not a popularity contest. We've achieved many of our goals. Maybe not so many of your goals for us. Not going to loose sleep over it.
Joshua West
-Okay, post #25 on this thread (still on the first page). A great contribution from blue blurr. And people wonder why Brock is mad. For posting such a thing, it is most likely that you are an a-hole as well. (ok say it, takes one to know one, but, you already said it so, so what?) Besides your the type of e-tard that talks trash on the internet, but are too much of a puss to sign your name to it. If you have a problem with how we conduct ourselves at the track, come up and tell us. Maybe we can help you. If we weren't super friendly to you, it could have been that we had slept very little (to not at all), had just towed 500miles, or we were very focused on getting our car ready for the next session.
No our driver is not keeping us down. We're all works in progress. From John with his 30years experience to Mr. Brock whose coming to us from the rallyX side just this year, and including our driver. We're all doing the best we can to learn as fast as we can. Heh, sometimes it's a little ugly.
We're trying to win races not a popularity contest. We've achieved many of our goals. Maybe not so many of your goals for us. Not going to loose sleep over it.
Joshua West
| KC | 08-24-2006 09:01 PM |
[QUOTE=jwest92]For posting such a thing, it is most likely that you are an a-hole as well. (ok say it, takes one to know one, but, you already said it so, so what?) Besides your the type of e-tard that talks trash on the internet, but are too much of a puss to sign your name to it.[/QUOTE]
Followed by...
[QUOTE]We're trying to win races not a popularity contest. We've achieved many of our goals. Maybe not so many of your goals for us. Not going to loose sleep over it.[/QUOTE]
makes it pretty evident. Way to 'reprezent' Mullerized.
[QUOTE] If you have a problem with how we conduct ourselves at the track, come up and tell us. [/QUOTE] Who's being the e-thug now? Heck, I construe that as a threat. Kinda "whatchu gonna do when you're gonna be facing my whole crew, dawg!"
You're better off not responding at all. Maybe that'll keep what customers you have left.
--kC
Followed by...
[QUOTE]We're trying to win races not a popularity contest. We've achieved many of our goals. Maybe not so many of your goals for us. Not going to loose sleep over it.[/QUOTE]
makes it pretty evident. Way to 'reprezent' Mullerized.
[QUOTE] If you have a problem with how we conduct ourselves at the track, come up and tell us. [/QUOTE] Who's being the e-thug now? Heck, I construe that as a threat. Kinda "whatchu gonna do when you're gonna be facing my whole crew, dawg!"
You're better off not responding at all. Maybe that'll keep what customers you have left.
--kC
| ChrisF | 08-24-2006 09:08 PM |
[Rodney King] Can't we all just get along??!?! [/Rodney King] :lol: :lol:
| WRXedUSA | 08-24-2006 09:21 PM |
[QUOTE=jwest92]
-Okay, post #25 on this thread (still on the first page). A great contribution from blue blurr. And people wonder why Brock is mad. For posting such a thing, it is most likely that you are an a-hole as well. (ok say it, takes one to know one, but, you already said it so, so what?) Besides your the type of e-tard that talks trash on the internet, but are too much of a puss to sign your name to it. If you have a problem with how we conduct ourselves at the track, come up and tell us. Maybe we can help you. If we weren't super friendly to you, it could have been that we had slept very little (to not at all), had just towed 500miles, or we were very focused on getting our car ready for the next session.
No our driver is not keeping us down. We're all works in progress. From John with his 30years experience to Mr. Brock whose coming to us from the rallyX side just this year, and including our driver. We're all doing the best we can to learn as fast as we can. Heh, sometimes it's a little ugly.
We're trying to win races not a popularity contest. We've achieved many of our goals. Maybe not so many of your goals for us. Not going to loose sleep over it.
Joshua West[/QUOTE]
Can I interest you in the [ QUOTE ] [ /QUOTE ] tags? You can find them by clicking on the [IMG]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/editor/quote.gif[/IMG] button.
Clearly there are plenty of items going on with this video, the driver, the 'race team' and the company that do not add up.
If you really do work for Muellerized, as KC mentioned, you might want to curtail your comments at the risk of thowing mud on your firms reputation.
I know John rules the roost at SoCalEvo, but this is Nasioc, and you may get responses you might not want to hear, no matter how constructive and respectful they are.
-Okay, post #25 on this thread (still on the first page). A great contribution from blue blurr. And people wonder why Brock is mad. For posting such a thing, it is most likely that you are an a-hole as well. (ok say it, takes one to know one, but, you already said it so, so what?) Besides your the type of e-tard that talks trash on the internet, but are too much of a puss to sign your name to it. If you have a problem with how we conduct ourselves at the track, come up and tell us. Maybe we can help you. If we weren't super friendly to you, it could have been that we had slept very little (to not at all), had just towed 500miles, or we were very focused on getting our car ready for the next session.
No our driver is not keeping us down. We're all works in progress. From John with his 30years experience to Mr. Brock whose coming to us from the rallyX side just this year, and including our driver. We're all doing the best we can to learn as fast as we can. Heh, sometimes it's a little ugly.
We're trying to win races not a popularity contest. We've achieved many of our goals. Maybe not so many of your goals for us. Not going to loose sleep over it.
Joshua West[/QUOTE]
Can I interest you in the [ QUOTE ] [ /QUOTE ] tags? You can find them by clicking on the [IMG]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/editor/quote.gif[/IMG] button.
Clearly there are plenty of items going on with this video, the driver, the 'race team' and the company that do not add up.
If you really do work for Muellerized, as KC mentioned, you might want to curtail your comments at the risk of thowing mud on your firms reputation.
I know John rules the roost at SoCalEvo, but this is Nasioc, and you may get responses you might not want to hear, no matter how constructive and respectful they are.
| t3hWIT | 08-24-2006 09:27 PM |
The helll?!?!? He thought he was going to drive away after that or something? :huh:
| WRXedUSA | 08-24-2006 09:37 PM |
[QUOTE=mi_cistemz_loudr]The helll?!?!? He thought he was going to drive away after that or something? :huh:[/QUOTE]
He was dazed.
He was dazed.
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 09:43 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Followed by...
makes it pretty evident. Way to 'reprezent' Mullerized.
Who's being the e-thug now? Heck, I construe that as a threat. Kinda "whatchu gonna do when you're gonna be facing my whole crew, dawg!"
You're better off not responding at all. Maybe that'll keep what customers you have left.
--kC[/QUOTE]
An e-thug? No And a "whatchu going to do about it" No , but what would you do if some random person, who would not sign there name to their post, called you an a-hole for no particular reason?
As for not responding at all, people are spreading half and untruths about what we are doing and how we're doing it. I think it to be unreasonable to stay quiet.
Joshua West
makes it pretty evident. Way to 'reprezent' Mullerized.
Who's being the e-thug now? Heck, I construe that as a threat. Kinda "whatchu gonna do when you're gonna be facing my whole crew, dawg!"
You're better off not responding at all. Maybe that'll keep what customers you have left.
--kC[/QUOTE]
An e-thug? No And a "whatchu going to do about it" No , but what would you do if some random person, who would not sign there name to their post, called you an a-hole for no particular reason?
As for not responding at all, people are spreading half and untruths about what we are doing and how we're doing it. I think it to be unreasonable to stay quiet.
Joshua West
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 09:45 PM |
page 2
Video's like this validate my decision to not mod my car and get into track days. Karting only for me!
- what protection do you have when you wreck your kart? Oh well, bones a flesh do regrow, costs money to build cages and fix cars. Coming from a bicycle racing background I may have to agree with you.
"20 wins"
Nice to forget the fact that usually ITE is 1 or 2 cars.
-Tom"
- way to do your home work tom, part of why we drive to the San Fransico Region (from LA) is to have the best competion on the best tracks for our driver in the car that he wants to drive. (He wanted an unlimited class evo) So race with 5-10 er so cars in our class (sometimes 50+ cars on the track, just in other classes, at the same time). Some weekends there are Vipers, some M3's, some super charged S2000s, some 911's and 928s.
-It's racing. Winning 20 in a row with an all wheel drive turbo four banger open class car is tuff! And until you win any in a row road racing, I think it would be wise for you to not comment, on things you know not enough about.
"that driver did not look comfortable behind that wheel...either he really didn't like the car at all or the car was an over-sprung turd waiting for some snap oversteer...or he was a novice"
-The driver is 6ft 5inches tall 240lbs+, we fit him in the car pretty well. Car and driver achieved a snap over-steer condition by having two tires in dirt and two tires on pavement, then making a line adjustment that required the tires in the dirt to provide more grip than was available. He hasn't done it again.
Joshua West
Video's like this validate my decision to not mod my car and get into track days. Karting only for me!
- what protection do you have when you wreck your kart? Oh well, bones a flesh do regrow, costs money to build cages and fix cars. Coming from a bicycle racing background I may have to agree with you.
"20 wins"
Nice to forget the fact that usually ITE is 1 or 2 cars.
-Tom"
- way to do your home work tom, part of why we drive to the San Fransico Region (from LA) is to have the best competion on the best tracks for our driver in the car that he wants to drive. (He wanted an unlimited class evo) So race with 5-10 er so cars in our class (sometimes 50+ cars on the track, just in other classes, at the same time). Some weekends there are Vipers, some M3's, some super charged S2000s, some 911's and 928s.
-It's racing. Winning 20 in a row with an all wheel drive turbo four banger open class car is tuff! And until you win any in a row road racing, I think it would be wise for you to not comment, on things you know not enough about.
"that driver did not look comfortable behind that wheel...either he really didn't like the car at all or the car was an over-sprung turd waiting for some snap oversteer...or he was a novice"
-The driver is 6ft 5inches tall 240lbs+, we fit him in the car pretty well. Car and driver achieved a snap over-steer condition by having two tires in dirt and two tires on pavement, then making a line adjustment that required the tires in the dirt to provide more grip than was available. He hasn't done it again.
Joshua West
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 09:57 PM |
[QUOTE=recce02]I can't believe no one noticed that the tube that is in the frame after the roll over was only tack welded in!!!!! Makes me wonder about the rest of the cage. I know that in my rally car all of the tubes are TIG welded ALL the way around the tube, cars will not pass any tech inspection if any of the tubes are half welded let alone tack welded. I can see from the other pictures that the cage did work, but it doesn't look like he took that hard of a hit to the roof. That is where my concern lies, just wondering about the tubes being completely welded.
just inquiring
Peace out
Marvin
Gravel Crew Rally Team USA[/QUOTE]
The cage was completely welded, I think we're going to have the car up here at the shop soon. Give Mr. Brock a call, maybe week after next, and we'll get you a look-see at the offending joint. If you are interrested
Joshua West
just inquiring
Peace out
Marvin
Gravel Crew Rally Team USA[/QUOTE]
The cage was completely welded, I think we're going to have the car up here at the shop soon. Give Mr. Brock a call, maybe week after next, and we'll get you a look-see at the offending joint. If you are interrested
Joshua West
| KC | 08-24-2006 10:02 PM |
[QUOTE=jwest92]-It's racing. Winning 20 in a row with an all wheel drive turbo four banger open class car is tuff! And until you win any in a row road racing, I think it would be wise for you to not comment, on things you know not enough about.[/QUOTE]
This is how the quote button works.
Now, you say its tough. I posted the numbers/times.... looks like everything was easy to me.
Your definition of tough must be different than mine I guess. Tough, to me, is not being on average 3-4 mph faster than your competiton and winning by minutes. 'Tough' to me is close races, fighting for position, winning by mere seconds.
All I see, is that you outspent everyone, and the numbers really back that up. That and you don't have any competiton out there. Big fish, small pond syndrome.
--kC
This is how the quote button works.
Now, you say its tough. I posted the numbers/times.... looks like everything was easy to me.
Your definition of tough must be different than mine I guess. Tough, to me, is not being on average 3-4 mph faster than your competiton and winning by minutes. 'Tough' to me is close races, fighting for position, winning by mere seconds.
All I see, is that you outspent everyone, and the numbers really back that up. That and you don't have any competiton out there. Big fish, small pond syndrome.
--kC
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 10:13 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]This years SFR Results.... [url]http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevents.jsp?st=3&org=32147[/url]
The closest race I see is when he won by 26 seconds at Infenon. What does that mean to me? You guys make more power than the rest of the field. How can I come to that conclusion? (But I wasn't there! I don't race!)
Every single race the EVO has a 3-4 more mph 'best speed' than the rest of the field (which are all pretty much close to each other). It sticks out like a sore thumb when you have a standout like that. Yes, driving plays a part of that, to deny it would be rediculous of me... but it looks to *me* that you guys just have a better/more powerful car than anyone else running out there.
Congrats! You paid more for the win. As in most forms of auto racing... those with the deeper pockets usually win. Someone 'on a shoe string budget' as mentioned before will only be winning classes until someone with deeper pockets comes along.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Best Speed = average speed for the best lap, not highest top speed in one section.
The car even today, makes less than 500hp at the wheels and weighs like 2985lbs. And ya, more money helps. But there're a lot of people that have spent more money upgrading their EVO, than us. Only to achieve NO results. Also, that car has parts that anyone can get, lovingly massaged onto an '03 theft recovery car, saved from the junk yard. Not as high dollar as you might think. Just a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of hard work.
Joshua West
The closest race I see is when he won by 26 seconds at Infenon. What does that mean to me? You guys make more power than the rest of the field. How can I come to that conclusion? (But I wasn't there! I don't race!)
Every single race the EVO has a 3-4 more mph 'best speed' than the rest of the field (which are all pretty much close to each other). It sticks out like a sore thumb when you have a standout like that. Yes, driving plays a part of that, to deny it would be rediculous of me... but it looks to *me* that you guys just have a better/more powerful car than anyone else running out there.
Congrats! You paid more for the win. As in most forms of auto racing... those with the deeper pockets usually win. Someone 'on a shoe string budget' as mentioned before will only be winning classes until someone with deeper pockets comes along.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Best Speed = average speed for the best lap, not highest top speed in one section.
The car even today, makes less than 500hp at the wheels and weighs like 2985lbs. And ya, more money helps. But there're a lot of people that have spent more money upgrading their EVO, than us. Only to achieve NO results. Also, that car has parts that anyone can get, lovingly massaged onto an '03 theft recovery car, saved from the junk yard. Not as high dollar as you might think. Just a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of hard work.
Joshua West
| Patrick Olsen | 08-24-2006 10:28 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Followed by...
makes it pretty evident. Way to 'reprezent' Mullerized.
Who's being the e-thug now? Heck, I construe that as a threat. Kinda "whatchu gonna do when you're gonna be facing my whole crew, dawg!"[/quote]
KC, I'm not sure if you have a bone to pick with these guys or something, but it seems to me you're being antagonistic and/or misinterpreting what Joshua said. Maybe you're just grumpy because your RX-8 is being recalled because Mazda can't make a reliable Wankel even after all these years? ;) :devil:
Seriously, I don't see any sign of threatening language at all in his post. If you look only at that one sentence - "...come tell us about it" - then maybe I could see that being threatening. But taken in context I don't think his statement is any more threatening than similar things I've read from other small-time racing teams. "We're going to be really busy and tired, so feel free to stop by, but we might not be terribly friendly. If we don't want to chat don't take it the wrong way." That's how I read it.
And I hardly think there's anything wrong with a racing team saying, "We're out to win races and meet our goals. If we don't meet your goals, well, tough patooties."
[quote=KC]You're better off not responding at all. Maybe that'll keep what customers you have left.
--kC[/QUOTE]
I do have to agree with you here. Not because anything Joshua is saying is bad IMO, but because it's pretty clear that nobody from Mueller is going to get a fair shake here. Case in point....
[quote=kjslider]I've met the driver of that wrecked Evo and he's a real prick. He's even paid off some of his competitors to drive slower just so he could beat 'em.[/quote]
:rolleyes:
Pat
makes it pretty evident. Way to 'reprezent' Mullerized.
Who's being the e-thug now? Heck, I construe that as a threat. Kinda "whatchu gonna do when you're gonna be facing my whole crew, dawg!"[/quote]
KC, I'm not sure if you have a bone to pick with these guys or something, but it seems to me you're being antagonistic and/or misinterpreting what Joshua said. Maybe you're just grumpy because your RX-8 is being recalled because Mazda can't make a reliable Wankel even after all these years? ;) :devil:
Seriously, I don't see any sign of threatening language at all in his post. If you look only at that one sentence - "...come tell us about it" - then maybe I could see that being threatening. But taken in context I don't think his statement is any more threatening than similar things I've read from other small-time racing teams. "We're going to be really busy and tired, so feel free to stop by, but we might not be terribly friendly. If we don't want to chat don't take it the wrong way." That's how I read it.
And I hardly think there's anything wrong with a racing team saying, "We're out to win races and meet our goals. If we don't meet your goals, well, tough patooties."
[quote=KC]You're better off not responding at all. Maybe that'll keep what customers you have left.
--kC[/QUOTE]
I do have to agree with you here. Not because anything Joshua is saying is bad IMO, but because it's pretty clear that nobody from Mueller is going to get a fair shake here. Case in point....
[quote=kjslider]I've met the driver of that wrecked Evo and he's a real prick. He's even paid off some of his competitors to drive slower just so he could beat 'em.[/quote]
:rolleyes:
Pat
| Patrick Olsen | 08-24-2006 10:32 PM |
[QUOTE=jwest92]The car even today, makes less than 500hp at the wheels and weighs like 2985lbs. And ya, more money helps. But there're a lot of people that have spent more money upgrading their EVO, than us. Only to achieve NO results. Also, that car has parts that anyone can get, lovingly massaged onto an '03 theft recovery car, saved from the junk yard. Not as high dollar as you might think. Just a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of hard work.
Joshua West[/QUOTE]
If the car in question was an STI rather than an EVO you'd be getting nothing but love here.
Instead, reading this thread I've "learned" that apparently you guys are a bunch of pricks who only win because you spend more money than anyone else, obviously all your competitors are driving Yugos, and yet you still have to pay off your competitors so you can win. :rolleyes:
Pat
Joshua West[/QUOTE]
If the car in question was an STI rather than an EVO you'd be getting nothing but love here.
Instead, reading this thread I've "learned" that apparently you guys are a bunch of pricks who only win because you spend more money than anyone else, obviously all your competitors are driving Yugos, and yet you still have to pay off your competitors so you can win. :rolleyes:
Pat
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 10:34 PM |
[QUOTE=elgorey]Oh really? So then you know that ITE is a regional-only class with localized rules. Its a [b]catch-all[/b] class with huge disparity in car speeds and car prep. What ruleset is the car built to? (my guess: none) or does your local region allow completely open rules in ITE?
ITE is essentially a contest of who can spend the most money.
Put this guy in a [i]competitive[/i] class like SpecMiata or SpecRacer Ford, or one of the IT classes where you cant spend your way into a win as easily, before you try stroke your own dick over 20 wins or whatever.
While you may collect all kinds of sackswingers on your evo forums , anyone who knows a damn about racing knows that doesnt mean anything.
I wont even talk trash on the driver, maybe he is in fact the next coming of schumacher (although i doubt it from that video), but some ITE wins in a big money evo isnt proving it.
ps- "muellerized" is the butt of quite a few jokes out in internetland right now. Are you really aware of how stupid it sounds?[/QUOTE]
Yep ITE is an open class. Has to be a unit body car, use "dot" tires, and comply with IT safety standards. Any one who knows a damn about racing knows, that to finish first you must first finish.
How easy do you think it is to get an open class car with a novice driver, to the end of one race? to win one race? to win a championship? to be leading the points in 2 classes the next season? and win 20 in a row? Do you think your spec class car is harder to get to the finish line? Do you think going faster makes it easier to get to the finish line?
Why is it that to have a competive spec Miata, you have to have a $7k plus motor, that's "stock" in a $2000 car?
Oh ya, our driver does not safely fit in either of the vehicles you spoke of.
As for making fun of the name. Seems childish to me.
Joshua West
ITE is essentially a contest of who can spend the most money.
Put this guy in a [i]competitive[/i] class like SpecMiata or SpecRacer Ford, or one of the IT classes where you cant spend your way into a win as easily, before you try stroke your own dick over 20 wins or whatever.
While you may collect all kinds of sackswingers on your evo forums , anyone who knows a damn about racing knows that doesnt mean anything.
I wont even talk trash on the driver, maybe he is in fact the next coming of schumacher (although i doubt it from that video), but some ITE wins in a big money evo isnt proving it.
ps- "muellerized" is the butt of quite a few jokes out in internetland right now. Are you really aware of how stupid it sounds?[/QUOTE]
Yep ITE is an open class. Has to be a unit body car, use "dot" tires, and comply with IT safety standards. Any one who knows a damn about racing knows, that to finish first you must first finish.
How easy do you think it is to get an open class car with a novice driver, to the end of one race? to win one race? to win a championship? to be leading the points in 2 classes the next season? and win 20 in a row? Do you think your spec class car is harder to get to the finish line? Do you think going faster makes it easier to get to the finish line?
Why is it that to have a competive spec Miata, you have to have a $7k plus motor, that's "stock" in a $2000 car?
Oh ya, our driver does not safely fit in either of the vehicles you spoke of.
As for making fun of the name. Seems childish to me.
Joshua West
| cooleyjb | 08-24-2006 10:52 PM |
[QUOTE=jwest92]Yep ITE is an open class. Has to be a unit body car, use "dot" tires, and comply with IT safety standards. Any one who knows a damn about racing knows, that to finish first you must first finish.
How easy do you think it is to get an open class car with a novice driver, to the end of one race? to win one race? to win a championship? to be leading the points in 2 classes the next season? and win 20 in a row? Do you think your spec class car is harder to get to the finish line? Do you think going faster makes it easier to get to the finish line?
Why is it that to have a competive spec Miata, you have to have a $7k plus motor, that's "stock" in a $2000 car?
Oh ya, our driver does not safely fit in either of the vehicles you spoke of.
As for making fun of the name. Seems childish to me.
Joshua West[/QUOTE]
I'd really just give up on this fight. You aren't going to get anyone to come to your side of the arguement.
The car is pretty damn capable. The driver is finishing races which can't be said about most of his competition. Let that be enough. Sure he has 20 wins in a row. If he was as good a driver as you lead on to be he'd be getting paid to do it by someone. Until then just say he's getting out there and busting is butt.
Your approach is pretty much all wrong. You are coming into an Subaru forum and going after some people that have proven themselves in national (not regional) competitions. You aren't helping yourself or your company.
And for the love of god use quote boxes. Your replies make my head hurt.
How easy do you think it is to get an open class car with a novice driver, to the end of one race? to win one race? to win a championship? to be leading the points in 2 classes the next season? and win 20 in a row? Do you think your spec class car is harder to get to the finish line? Do you think going faster makes it easier to get to the finish line?
Why is it that to have a competive spec Miata, you have to have a $7k plus motor, that's "stock" in a $2000 car?
Oh ya, our driver does not safely fit in either of the vehicles you spoke of.
As for making fun of the name. Seems childish to me.
Joshua West[/QUOTE]
I'd really just give up on this fight. You aren't going to get anyone to come to your side of the arguement.
The car is pretty damn capable. The driver is finishing races which can't be said about most of his competition. Let that be enough. Sure he has 20 wins in a row. If he was as good a driver as you lead on to be he'd be getting paid to do it by someone. Until then just say he's getting out there and busting is butt.
Your approach is pretty much all wrong. You are coming into an Subaru forum and going after some people that have proven themselves in national (not regional) competitions. You aren't helping yourself or your company.
And for the love of god use quote boxes. Your replies make my head hurt.
| jwest92 | 08-24-2006 10:57 PM |
[QUOTE=FaastLegacy]Really, it doesn't look like it got personal until someone came in trying to defend them. I see some really qualified people giving objective, valid criticism......and somebody took that personally. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen....
From a totally unbiased, uneducated standpoint:
I know next to nothing about SCCA racing and I don't claim to know anything. But it seems to me this "racing team", if you can call it that, is incredibly proud of "18 straight wins", most by a rather large margin for a ~15 lap race with ~1:5x lap times. That suggests to me that they enjoy a rather large disparity between their equipment and the competition. Taking this video into consideration, and the fact that he's an admitted novice, I doubt it's due to an overwhelming abundance of talent. I don't know that I'd be proud of the fact that I'm whupping on competition that has spent much less money than myself and likely has inferior equipment.
But again, those are just my observations....[/QUOTE]
It got personal at post #25, before anyone went on defence. Frankly never wanted to be in this kitchen, but some went too far.
Having a car that outperforms the others doesn't happen by accident or just cash. It takes a lot of work and know-how. Making more power does not make parts want to stay on the car. Going faster does not make the car want to stay on the track. Working through lapped cars does not make it easier to stay ahead, especially when you have less experience. Our driver is really good and getting better.
No its not NASCAR, SM, SF, or F1 (don't some people make fun of and bemown NASCAR and F1 for being to restrictive, don't people talk about the good old days of Group B rallying & real IMSA prototypes) but be sure it's still racing. Maybe for next season we'll run a mechanical fuel pump ;-)
Oh well. I'm tired now. Have fun!
Joshua West
From a totally unbiased, uneducated standpoint:
I know next to nothing about SCCA racing and I don't claim to know anything. But it seems to me this "racing team", if you can call it that, is incredibly proud of "18 straight wins", most by a rather large margin for a ~15 lap race with ~1:5x lap times. That suggests to me that they enjoy a rather large disparity between their equipment and the competition. Taking this video into consideration, and the fact that he's an admitted novice, I doubt it's due to an overwhelming abundance of talent. I don't know that I'd be proud of the fact that I'm whupping on competition that has spent much less money than myself and likely has inferior equipment.
But again, those are just my observations....[/QUOTE]
It got personal at post #25, before anyone went on defence. Frankly never wanted to be in this kitchen, but some went too far.
Having a car that outperforms the others doesn't happen by accident or just cash. It takes a lot of work and know-how. Making more power does not make parts want to stay on the car. Going faster does not make the car want to stay on the track. Working through lapped cars does not make it easier to stay ahead, especially when you have less experience. Our driver is really good and getting better.
No its not NASCAR, SM, SF, or F1 (don't some people make fun of and bemown NASCAR and F1 for being to restrictive, don't people talk about the good old days of Group B rallying & real IMSA prototypes) but be sure it's still racing. Maybe for next season we'll run a mechanical fuel pump ;-)
Oh well. I'm tired now. Have fun!
Joshua West
| Mach V Dan | 08-24-2006 11:04 PM |
[quote]...you don't have any competiton out there. Big fish, small pond syndrome.[/quote]
I find myself a little puzzled about how this thread got to this point. I think it's easy to critique the driving of someone who wrecks. Almost by definition, the driver made a mistake. (Very, very few accidents are caused by spontaneous equipment failure...) While I'll admit I can identify early-apex behavior on the vid, so what? We all had to start somewhere. He was a novice racer, clearly, but again, everybody's a novice at the beginning. (Most of us, thankfully, don't have that part on tape. :))
And if you race, YOU ARE GOING TO WRECK. Sooner or later, it will happen. The whole goal is to push the car right to the edge, and to push farther than the next guy without crashing. This often (usually) results in SOMEBODY crashing on any given race weekend. Sometimes many people.
I don't know why people are criticizing the cage; it seems to have protected the passenger compartement very well. Too bad the engine and trunk didn't have such protection.
The accusation that a winning record means you outspent your competitors comes across as just spiteful. Campaigning any kind of race car is incredibly difficult. You give up your entire social/family/non-work life (and a lot of your work life!), and for what? If you're good/lucky, maybe some mention in Grassroots Motorsports magazine. If not, for nothing more than a knowing you raced all season. Having a winning season would certainly be something I'd be proud of, even if I did spend a lot to get there. Oh, and you think the rest of the competition didn't spend anything? Ha, right.
I don't know these people at all. They may indeed act like jerks, and maybe that's where all the animosity comes from. But just based on a quick review of the video and the comments from the people involved with the race team, I don't see them deserving all this crap.
--Dan
Mach V
[url=www.fastwrx.com]FastWRX.com[/url]
I find myself a little puzzled about how this thread got to this point. I think it's easy to critique the driving of someone who wrecks. Almost by definition, the driver made a mistake. (Very, very few accidents are caused by spontaneous equipment failure...) While I'll admit I can identify early-apex behavior on the vid, so what? We all had to start somewhere. He was a novice racer, clearly, but again, everybody's a novice at the beginning. (Most of us, thankfully, don't have that part on tape. :))
And if you race, YOU ARE GOING TO WRECK. Sooner or later, it will happen. The whole goal is to push the car right to the edge, and to push farther than the next guy without crashing. This often (usually) results in SOMEBODY crashing on any given race weekend. Sometimes many people.
I don't know why people are criticizing the cage; it seems to have protected the passenger compartement very well. Too bad the engine and trunk didn't have such protection.
The accusation that a winning record means you outspent your competitors comes across as just spiteful. Campaigning any kind of race car is incredibly difficult. You give up your entire social/family/non-work life (and a lot of your work life!), and for what? If you're good/lucky, maybe some mention in Grassroots Motorsports magazine. If not, for nothing more than a knowing you raced all season. Having a winning season would certainly be something I'd be proud of, even if I did spend a lot to get there. Oh, and you think the rest of the competition didn't spend anything? Ha, right.
I don't know these people at all. They may indeed act like jerks, and maybe that's where all the animosity comes from. But just based on a quick review of the video and the comments from the people involved with the race team, I don't see them deserving all this crap.
--Dan
Mach V
[url=www.fastwrx.com]FastWRX.com[/url]
| GarySheehan | 08-25-2006 01:32 AM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen] "We're out to win races and meet our goals. If we don't meet your goals, well, tough patooties."
Pat[/QUOTE]
I take exception to the use of the word "patooties."
BAN Patrick!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Pat[/QUOTE]
I take exception to the use of the word "patooties."
BAN Patrick!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| ANZAC_1915 | 08-25-2006 02:08 AM |
I don't think I saw a single corner in this video where he didn't early apex.
Totally outdriving his skill level. Build skills, add speed - in that order. Repeat.
On the cage subject, I think it might be roll cage padding over the top of the cage (you can see the marks after the accident) rather than the cage itself.
Totally outdriving his skill level. Build skills, add speed - in that order. Repeat.
On the cage subject, I think it might be roll cage padding over the top of the cage (you can see the marks after the accident) rather than the cage itself.
| solo-x | 08-25-2006 07:58 AM |
this thread got to "big fish, small pond" not because of the wreck but because of the bragging over 20 consecutive wins in a soft class.
the pride you should take in your accomplishments should be directly proportional to the difficulty in acheiving that accomplishment. when you can't even SEE 2nd place because they are so far behind you, that means the actual racing is not difficult. kent's driving has improved, but he still isn't at the point where he can take an underprepped car in a truly competitive class and win, let alone walk the class by at LEAST 26 seconds. if you want to brag about how DURABLE your car is, put the emphasis on completing 20 consecutive races.
20 consecutive wins to the uninitiated looks awesome. probably helps you guys sell parts and services. bring that crap into a place where there are a bunch of real racers that know what it takes to win and can see that everyone you are racing against doesn't have it and you're going to get called on it. you aren't going to fool anyone in here. don't think you're the first either. i can't count how many times a novice autocrosser comes in here bragging about setting FTD at their 3rd autocross ever. Letting them beleive they are really fast is an excellent way to permanently stunt their growth as a driver.
nate
the pride you should take in your accomplishments should be directly proportional to the difficulty in acheiving that accomplishment. when you can't even SEE 2nd place because they are so far behind you, that means the actual racing is not difficult. kent's driving has improved, but he still isn't at the point where he can take an underprepped car in a truly competitive class and win, let alone walk the class by at LEAST 26 seconds. if you want to brag about how DURABLE your car is, put the emphasis on completing 20 consecutive races.
20 consecutive wins to the uninitiated looks awesome. probably helps you guys sell parts and services. bring that crap into a place where there are a bunch of real racers that know what it takes to win and can see that everyone you are racing against doesn't have it and you're going to get called on it. you aren't going to fool anyone in here. don't think you're the first either. i can't count how many times a novice autocrosser comes in here bragging about setting FTD at their 3rd autocross ever. Letting them beleive they are really fast is an excellent way to permanently stunt their growth as a driver.
nate
| KC | 08-25-2006 08:16 AM |
I had a big post, but solo-x summed it up much nicer than I could have.... so I took it all out... especially with this line...
[QUOTE]Letting them beleive they are really fast is an excellent way to permanently stunt their growth as a driver.[/QUOTE]
--kC
[QUOTE]Letting them beleive they are really fast is an excellent way to permanently stunt their growth as a driver.[/QUOTE]
--kC
| sachilles | 08-25-2006 09:17 AM |
Can't believe I just read this whole thread......this thread needs to take a plan B.
| Muellerized... | 08-25-2006 12:24 PM |
Current Video
�
�
Our website is back up, please right click, 'save target as' to view our video footage. Please see post #62 on this thread for the links.
I would love to banter with all of the arm chair race team managers, driving coaches etc. out in cyberspace, but it is more important to me to go out into my shop and work on the STi that is on my lift right now. If anyone has anything that they feel they need to say to me personally about the conduct of my driver or teammates, please email me directly and I would be happy to resolve any differences you may have with any of us.
In case anyone here is unsure, post #92 was made by kjslider, who also happens to be my driver, just a little sarcasm amongst friends. ;)
Thanks.
I would love to banter with all of the arm chair race team managers, driving coaches etc. out in cyberspace, but it is more important to me to go out into my shop and work on the STi that is on my lift right now. If anyone has anything that they feel they need to say to me personally about the conduct of my driver or teammates, please email me directly and I would be happy to resolve any differences you may have with any of us.
In case anyone here is unsure, post #92 was made by kjslider, who also happens to be my driver, just a little sarcasm amongst friends. ;)
Thanks.
| WRXedUSA | 08-25-2006 12:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Muellerized...]Our website is back up, please right click, 'save target as' to view our video footage. Please see post #62 on this thread for the links.
[B]I would love to banter with all of the[U] arm chair race team managers, driving coaches etc. out in cyberspace[/U], but it is more important to me to go out into my shop and work on the STi that is on my lift right now.[/B] If anyone has anything that they feel they need to say to me personally about the conduct of my driver or teammates, please email me directly and I would be happy to resolve any differences you may have with any of us.
In case anyone here is unsure, post #92 was made by kjslider, who also happens to be my driver, just a little sarcasm amongst friends. ;)
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
:chortle:
[B]I would love to banter with all of the[U] arm chair race team managers, driving coaches etc. out in cyberspace[/U], but it is more important to me to go out into my shop and work on the STi that is on my lift right now.[/B] If anyone has anything that they feel they need to say to me personally about the conduct of my driver or teammates, please email me directly and I would be happy to resolve any differences you may have with any of us.
In case anyone here is unsure, post #92 was made by kjslider, who also happens to be my driver, just a little sarcasm amongst friends. ;)
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
:chortle:
| GarySheehan | 08-25-2006 01:03 PM |
[QUOTE=Muellerized...]In case anyone here is unsure, post #92 was made by kjslider, who also happens to be my driver, just a little sarcasm amongst friends. ;)
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
That's awesome! :lol: Good on ya, Kent.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
That's awesome! :lol: Good on ya, Kent.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| silver arrow | 08-25-2006 03:06 PM |
[QUOTE=kjslider]I've met the driver of that wrecked Evo and he's a real prick. He's even paid off some of his competitors to drive slower just so he could beat 'em.[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :lol: At least he still has his sense of humor.
:lol: :lol: :lol: At least he still has his sense of humor.
| NismoSkylineGTR | 08-26-2006 02:08 AM |
when they gonna have the video up
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