| Scooby South | 02-10-2004 08:05 PM |
NEW Class in SCCA Coming (Solo 2) Hot off the presses
�
�
For all people like Street tires.... STU is going to be the SCCA class for Sti's,Evo's etc. 99.9% approval and probably ready to run in Atlanta. MORE DETAILS SOON...[I]Kiko Siebt[/I]
Sounds like AWD class is coming...:devil: A little birdie told me a Nationally preped STi (Astock...and the ESP National Champion) went at it head to head in Private session....The STi Stomped the National champs Camaro...pretty handily....So changes are in the works...Wahoooo
Bill
Sounds like AWD class is coming...:devil: A little birdie told me a Nationally preped STi (Astock...and the ESP National Champion) went at it head to head in Private session....The STi Stomped the National champs Camaro...pretty handily....So changes are in the works...Wahoooo
Bill
| del105 | 02-10-2004 08:18 PM |
you saying there is a 99.9% chance this will be a class available this weekend?
| Scooby South | 02-10-2004 08:19 PM |
yes :cool: ;)
| MattDell | 02-10-2004 08:28 PM |
Street Touring _____?
-Matt
-Matt
| Scooby South | 02-10-2004 08:31 PM |
[U]U[/U] nlimited
| lo-buck | 02-10-2004 08:42 PM |
nice. this should help some newcommers as well as open up some more ways to run eight thousand classes in the same car:p i guess evo, sti, wrx and most of the SM cars on street tires would be ellegible for STU.
-Spenc..........looks for a car to borrow
-Spenc..........looks for a car to borrow
| TheWRX | 02-10-2004 09:05 PM |
AFAIK, new classes don't get introduced from one day to the next. The detailed rules have to be defined, they're submitted for member comment, then have to be approved at various levels, and then it also takes some advance notification of people who actually want to run the class. I see no way that we would see STU before 2005, even if things go smoothly.
| Scooby South | 02-10-2004 09:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TheWRX [/i]
[B]AFAIK, new classes don't get introduced from one day to the next. The detailed rules have to be defined, they're submitted for member comment, then have to be approved at various levels, and then it also takes some advance notification of people who actually want to run the class. I see no way that we would see STU before 2005, even if things go smoothly. [/B][/QUOTE]
Its going to be run as a experimental class this year...to see if its "worthy" of national recognition...just like they did way back just like STS or SM....
Bill
[B]AFAIK, new classes don't get introduced from one day to the next. The detailed rules have to be defined, they're submitted for member comment, then have to be approved at various levels, and then it also takes some advance notification of people who actually want to run the class. I see no way that we would see STU before 2005, even if things go smoothly. [/B][/QUOTE]
Its going to be run as a experimental class this year...to see if its "worthy" of national recognition...just like they did way back just like STS or SM....
Bill
| KC | 02-10-2004 09:54 PM |
Great news!!
All they are doing is probably adopting the STX ruleset with maybe one or two more allowances.
GREAT JOB!
--kC
All they are doing is probably adopting the STX ruleset with maybe one or two more allowances.
GREAT JOB!
--kC
| leecea | 02-10-2004 09:54 PM |
[QUOTE]i guess evo, sti, wrx and most of the SM cars on street tires would be ellegible for STU.[/QUOTE]
Is that true or is this like STX but for EVOs and STIs? I guess the question is: would a WRX that modded itself out of STX, into SM, now be able to run STU if it used street tires? I guess the rules will tell us...
Is that true or is this like STX but for EVOs and STIs? I guess the question is: would a WRX that modded itself out of STX, into SM, now be able to run STU if it used street tires? I guess the rules will tell us...
| Warp3 | 02-10-2004 10:12 PM |
I find it kind of funny that STU is back (for those that don't remember that was the original name for Street Modified).
As for the Camaro vs STi thing: I read all about it on the Evolution list and I wasn't in the slightest surprised by the result. I find it hard to believe that the STi and EVO will be in ESP for very long now...hehe :)
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
As for the Camaro vs STi thing: I read all about it on the Evolution list and I wasn't in the slightest surprised by the result. I find it hard to believe that the STi and EVO will be in ESP for very long now...hehe :)
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
| TyrannoSullyRex | 02-10-2004 10:28 PM |
We've been running "STU" in Houston Region for a few years, it's a "run what ya brung" class. Lot's of heavily modified WRXs, STIs, turbo Miatas and hybrid civics (which wails on all of the above).
| KC | 02-10-2004 10:38 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TyrannoSullyRex[/i]
[B] We've been running "STU" in Houston Region for a few years, it's a "run what ya brung" class. Lot's of heavily modified WRXs, STIs, turbo Miatas and hybrid civics (which wails on all of the above). [/B][/QUOTE]
Which is what the national Street Modified class used to be called.
STU in the new sense will still be on street tires based heavily on STX/STS rules.
--KC
[B] We've been running "STU" in Houston Region for a few years, it's a "run what ya brung" class. Lot's of heavily modified WRXs, STIs, turbo Miatas and hybrid civics (which wails on all of the above). [/B][/QUOTE]
Which is what the national Street Modified class used to be called.
STU in the new sense will still be on street tires based heavily on STX/STS rules.
--KC
| TyrannoSullyRex | 02-10-2004 10:58 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC[/i]
[B] Which is what the national Street Modified class used to be called.
STU in the new sense will still be on street tires based heavily on STX/STS rules.
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
STU in houston region came about before SM (I think, created in 1999), it's part of a bunch of street tire class which basically equates to street prepared car eligibility and rules (roughly) and then STU was created as a catch all for those prepared beyond the "normal" ST classes.
[B] Which is what the national Street Modified class used to be called.
STU in the new sense will still be on street tires based heavily on STX/STS rules.
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
STU in houston region came about before SM (I think, created in 1999), it's part of a bunch of street tire class which basically equates to street prepared car eligibility and rules (roughly) and then STU was created as a catch all for those prepared beyond the "normal" ST classes.
| afpdl | 02-10-2004 11:35 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Scooby South[/i]
[B]
Sounds like AWD class is coming...:devil: A little birdie told me a Nationally preped STi (Astock...and the ESP National Champion) went at it head to head in Private session....The STi Stomped the National champs Camaro...pretty handily....So changes are in the works...Wahoooo
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
NOOOOO! Say it aint so :( Ive been liking esp.
[B]
Sounds like AWD class is coming...:devil: A little birdie told me a Nationally preped STi (Astock...and the ESP National Champion) went at it head to head in Private session....The STi Stomped the National champs Camaro...pretty handily....So changes are in the works...Wahoooo
Bill [/B][/QUOTE]
NOOOOO! Say it aint so :( Ive been liking esp.
| dwx | 02-10-2004 11:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TyrannoSullyRex [/i]
[B]STU in houston region came about before SM (I think, created in 1999), it's part of a bunch of street tire class which basically equates to street prepared car eligibility and rules (roughly) and then STU was created as a catch all for those prepared beyond the "normal" ST classes. [/B][/QUOTE]
STU as it was called was started nationally in 1998, and renamed to SM in 1999. It was never a street tire class however. ST stood for street touring, not street tire.
A car with lots of SM modifications isn't going to be legal for STU. For instance my WRX has a 2.5L engine, I don't think I could slap on some street tires and go race in STU. It's just going to be STX for cars not eligible for STX. So... EVO vs. STI.
[B]STU in houston region came about before SM (I think, created in 1999), it's part of a bunch of street tire class which basically equates to street prepared car eligibility and rules (roughly) and then STU was created as a catch all for those prepared beyond the "normal" ST classes. [/B][/QUOTE]
STU as it was called was started nationally in 1998, and renamed to SM in 1999. It was never a street tire class however. ST stood for street touring, not street tire.
A car with lots of SM modifications isn't going to be legal for STU. For instance my WRX has a 2.5L engine, I don't think I could slap on some street tires and go race in STU. It's just going to be STX for cars not eligible for STX. So... EVO vs. STI.
| afpdl | 02-10-2004 11:51 PM |
STU in Houston is alot different then what this new STU is. In houston you can basically run any street car with an interior and street tires. I believe it actually allows more mods then SM here.
| trhoppe | 02-11-2004 12:41 AM |
With the WRX breaking and my fear of breaking something in KCs car if I were to codrive it, I think I will try to convince Midnight_gold to let me run the STi in this class at the Atlanta Pro ;)
-Tom
-Tom
| jmott | 02-11-2004 01:05 AM |
my z06 obliterated the STU field when I was an ass and ran in it
lol
lol
| KC | 02-11-2004 07:45 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe[/i]
[B] With the WRX breaking and my fear of breaking something in KCs car if I were to codrive it, I think I will try to convince Midnight_gold to let me run the STi in this class at the Atlanta Pro ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Saturday is valentines day. You're gonna have to do something REAAALLLY nice for her. ;)
[B] With the WRX breaking and my fear of breaking something in KCs car if I were to codrive it, I think I will try to convince Midnight_gold to let me run the STi in this class at the Atlanta Pro ;)
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
Saturday is valentines day. You're gonna have to do something REAAALLLY nice for her. ;)
| TimStevens | 02-11-2004 07:58 AM |
IMHO, we need an STX-like class for two seaters. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but in my MR2 there aren't many classes I fit into, and none in which I can be competitive on street tires!
| MNbiker | 02-11-2004 07:59 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott [/i]
[B]my z06 obliterated the STU field when I was an ass and ran in it
lol [/B][/QUOTE]
And your point is?:rolleyes:
[B]my z06 obliterated the STU field when I was an ass and ran in it
lol [/B][/QUOTE]
And your point is?:rolleyes:
| Orion | 02-11-2004 08:04 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TyrannoSullyRex [/i]
[B]...and hybrid civics (which wails on all of the above). [/B][/QUOTE]
only 'cause i left town. ;)
I won the 2002 HouSCCA STU title with various stages of tune, but mostly in and STX eligible car. Don't get confused that this is a recognized class, cuz it isn't outside of HouSCCA.
I don't really understand why we need to make an additional "class", what we need is an entire Street Touring [b]Category[/b]. This would include the current STS, STX, and the top ST class would be SM, even with it's R Compound allowance. It would be MUCH easier to fill in the additional classes where necessary that way.
[B]...and hybrid civics (which wails on all of the above). [/B][/QUOTE]
only 'cause i left town. ;)
I won the 2002 HouSCCA STU title with various stages of tune, but mostly in and STX eligible car. Don't get confused that this is a recognized class, cuz it isn't outside of HouSCCA.
I don't really understand why we need to make an additional "class", what we need is an entire Street Touring [b]Category[/b]. This would include the current STS, STX, and the top ST class would be SM, even with it's R Compound allowance. It would be MUCH easier to fill in the additional classes where necessary that way.
| Orion | 02-11-2004 08:05 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker [/i]
[B]And your point is?:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
he's an arse that ran an illegal car.;)
[B]And your point is?:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
he's an arse that ran an illegal car.;)
| stxwrxracer | 02-11-2004 08:58 AM |
Just a little clarification on the new STU class and a small report on the ESP test at the Evo school this past weekend.
The new STU class is a go. It will be offered starting this weekend at the Atlanta Pro Solo. It is an experimental class. The correct name for the class in Street Touring Ultra. Personally, I believe this a perfect progression of the "Street" classes for STis, Evos, Supras, and possibly Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs, RX-8s, and RX-7s to play...I haven't seen the final ruleset on eligible cars, but am expecting all of these to be included. I wholly expect this new class to surpass even Street Mod at all of our events. I hope this clarifies everyone's curiosities of the new class.
As far as the test that was conducted in Orlando this past weekend....The STi is fast and is only going to get faster. If it can get 2-2.5sec faster than ESP, which is right about where BSP falls, that remains to be seen. I certainly hope it can be that fast, because even I'm saying the STi is too fast for ESP. Either that or the F-Body's are just too slow...you make that determination. The STi tested was maybe half-prepped to the extent of the ESP ruleset, but was as fast as a fully prepped-ESP Camaro. The STi turned out to be 0.1 second off the pace comparing the fastest times of all the drivers in each car. I can honestly say this was a fair contest, with no sandbagging taking place. What I felt good about was that my underprepped STX car was only 0.9 off the pace of the STi and the ESP Camaro....hmm, there may still be hope for the regular WRXs in ESP...might have to check that one out sometime...
~Mike King
The new STU class is a go. It will be offered starting this weekend at the Atlanta Pro Solo. It is an experimental class. The correct name for the class in Street Touring Ultra. Personally, I believe this a perfect progression of the "Street" classes for STis, Evos, Supras, and possibly Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs, RX-8s, and RX-7s to play...I haven't seen the final ruleset on eligible cars, but am expecting all of these to be included. I wholly expect this new class to surpass even Street Mod at all of our events. I hope this clarifies everyone's curiosities of the new class.
As far as the test that was conducted in Orlando this past weekend....The STi is fast and is only going to get faster. If it can get 2-2.5sec faster than ESP, which is right about where BSP falls, that remains to be seen. I certainly hope it can be that fast, because even I'm saying the STi is too fast for ESP. Either that or the F-Body's are just too slow...you make that determination. The STi tested was maybe half-prepped to the extent of the ESP ruleset, but was as fast as a fully prepped-ESP Camaro. The STi turned out to be 0.1 second off the pace comparing the fastest times of all the drivers in each car. I can honestly say this was a fair contest, with no sandbagging taking place. What I felt good about was that my underprepped STX car was only 0.9 off the pace of the STi and the ESP Camaro....hmm, there may still be hope for the regular WRXs in ESP...might have to check that one out sometime...
~Mike King
| Warp3 | 02-11-2004 09:29 AM |
FYI: Here is an excerpt from Jean Kinser-Dana's original post on the Evolution list about the STi vs. Camaro "event."
[quote]
People involved with driving-Sam Strano, Mike King, Ian Stewart (that boy can
drive even impressing Sam in the F bodies!)Marc Dana, Elliot Harvey, Kiko
Seibt.
Cars were Sam's very prepared ESP camaro new Hoosiers, Kiko's semi ESP
prepped STI on spec grand Am cup Hoosier tires. At the event on Sunday, throw
in
Sam's car on the old Hoosier compound and STI on the Bridgestones streets they
come with.
Sam was the fastest in his car by a mere .1 over Marc Dana in Sam's car. the
STI was only a tenth or two behind that but Mike King was over heard mumbling
that it could be true of the STI being an over dog in the ESP classings
since he had trouble keeping this bullet underneath him, and he is considered to
be a FWD "specialist" This was the first time I had seen an STI run on
anything other than the tires it comes with and could not believe the
acceleration it
has coming off turns. Viewing it for the first time like that after driving
some, made my jaw drop. I was inside for much of this but I know that Elliot
Harvey wanted me to post that anyone who would let him drive a stock Evo or
STI at nationals in ESP, he'd buy the tires for.
On the event day-this is what really made an impression on most of us. Sam
had a blstering 47.5 I think and Marc got in with a total newbie in his STI who
had never autocrossed before, the car was stock everything and the street
bridgestone tires-Marc ran a time a tenth quicker than Sam on STREET tires right
off the bat!!!!!!! Elliot was a few tenths off Sam's best time in the STI and
he has only driven one a couple runs.
[/quote]
[quote]
People involved with driving-Sam Strano, Mike King, Ian Stewart (that boy can
drive even impressing Sam in the F bodies!)Marc Dana, Elliot Harvey, Kiko
Seibt.
Cars were Sam's very prepared ESP camaro new Hoosiers, Kiko's semi ESP
prepped STI on spec grand Am cup Hoosier tires. At the event on Sunday, throw
in
Sam's car on the old Hoosier compound and STI on the Bridgestones streets they
come with.
Sam was the fastest in his car by a mere .1 over Marc Dana in Sam's car. the
STI was only a tenth or two behind that but Mike King was over heard mumbling
that it could be true of the STI being an over dog in the ESP classings
since he had trouble keeping this bullet underneath him, and he is considered to
be a FWD "specialist" This was the first time I had seen an STI run on
anything other than the tires it comes with and could not believe the
acceleration it
has coming off turns. Viewing it for the first time like that after driving
some, made my jaw drop. I was inside for much of this but I know that Elliot
Harvey wanted me to post that anyone who would let him drive a stock Evo or
STI at nationals in ESP, he'd buy the tires for.
On the event day-this is what really made an impression on most of us. Sam
had a blstering 47.5 I think and Marc got in with a total newbie in his STI who
had never autocrossed before, the car was stock everything and the street
bridgestone tires-Marc ran a time a tenth quicker than Sam on STREET tires right
off the bat!!!!!!! Elliot was a few tenths off Sam's best time in the STI and
he has only driven one a couple runs.
[/quote]
| zoomfactor | 02-11-2004 09:48 AM |
Someone please enlighten me... we have
[QUOTE]Sam's very prepared ESP camaro [/QUOTE] on the Hoosier's 2003 Autocross compound and [QUOTE]Kiko's semi ESP prepped STI [/QUOTE] on Hoosier road-race compound.
It seems that they are concerned that a [B]fully prepped[/B] STi is going to clean up. I know that Kiko is already running a downpipe, cat-back (which you could remove) and his old Tein HA's (8/9?). What else are you going to do to the Sti? The car comes with an awesome driveline out of the box.
[QUOTE]Sam's very prepared ESP camaro [/QUOTE] on the Hoosier's 2003 Autocross compound and [QUOTE]Kiko's semi ESP prepped STI [/QUOTE] on Hoosier road-race compound.
It seems that they are concerned that a [B]fully prepped[/B] STi is going to clean up. I know that Kiko is already running a downpipe, cat-back (which you could remove) and his old Tein HA's (8/9?). What else are you going to do to the Sti? The car comes with an awesome driveline out of the box.
| KC | 02-11-2004 10:19 AM |
FMIC, bored out, water injection (maybe), more suspension tweaks, better diff in the front (one that IS predictable), bigger tires with larger fender flares, no exhaust restrictions.... yes, you can get a seriously fast car.
--KC
--KC
| stxwrxracer | 02-11-2004 10:29 AM |
Hard (GrandAm Cup) road race compound 245's vs A3S04 autocross compound 275s.
Computer?
Weight...the Evo RS was able to shed 168(?) lbs.
Suspension has a ways to go..needs a front sway bar.
And all the things KC threw in...
Enlightened?
~Mike
Computer?
Weight...the Evo RS was able to shed 168(?) lbs.
Suspension has a ways to go..needs a front sway bar.
And all the things KC threw in...
Enlightened?
~Mike
| Uber Wagon | 02-11-2004 12:04 PM |
WOOT!
I think I just changed my car preperation goals this winter (from SM now to STU). I'm glad I started with the suspension and not the engine work first! Now I have to go back and read all those STX threads again...
-Nick
I think I just changed my car preperation goals this winter (from SM now to STU). I'm glad I started with the suspension and not the engine work first! Now I have to go back and read all those STX threads again...
-Nick
| Scooby South | 02-11-2004 12:14 PM |
Thanks Mike, KC and the rest....enlightened???? yes..;)..
hope it works out...
Bill
hope it works out...
Bill
| zoomfactor | 02-11-2004 12:38 PM |
:D Thanks for the enlightenment!
regarding the FMIC - isn't the jury still out due to the cutting/replacement of the bumper beam and/or other necessary components.
regarding the FMIC - isn't the jury still out due to the cutting/replacement of the bumper beam and/or other necessary components.
| Paisan | 02-11-2004 01:00 PM |
Yeah nice that's all we need MORE SCCA CLASSES. Why don't we make a class for ever make, model and vehicle? That way everyone is a winner. Kinda like the "no child left behind"
:disco: :disco:
-mike
:disco: :disco:
-mike
| Orion | 02-11-2004 01:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Paisan [/i]
[B]Yeah nice that's all we need MORE SCCA CLASSES. Why don't we make a class for ever make, model and vehicle? That way everyone is a winner. Kinda like the "no child left behind"
:disco: :disco:
-mike [/B][/QUOTE]
i fully understand your point, and i kinda agree except for one thing...
exclusion lists. we wouldn't need more classes if certain cars weren't thrown around and eventually put on exclusion lists.
[B]Yeah nice that's all we need MORE SCCA CLASSES. Why don't we make a class for ever make, model and vehicle? That way everyone is a winner. Kinda like the "no child left behind"
:disco: :disco:
-mike [/B][/QUOTE]
i fully understand your point, and i kinda agree except for one thing...
exclusion lists. we wouldn't need more classes if certain cars weren't thrown around and eventually put on exclusion lists.
| KC | 02-11-2004 01:13 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zoomfactor[/i]
[B] :D Thanks for the enlightenment!
regarding the FMIC - isn't the jury still out due to the cutting/replacement of the bumper beam and/or other necessary components. [/B][/QUOTE]
If the need is there, someone will develop a FMIC that needs no cutting. :)
Will it be cheap? Probably not... (I say why deal with the pressure loss of a FMIC, but that's just me).
[B] :D Thanks for the enlightenment!
regarding the FMIC - isn't the jury still out due to the cutting/replacement of the bumper beam and/or other necessary components. [/B][/QUOTE]
If the need is there, someone will develop a FMIC that needs no cutting. :)
Will it be cheap? Probably not... (I say why deal with the pressure loss of a FMIC, but that's just me).
| 10th Warrior | 02-11-2004 02:05 PM |
what were the ambeint air temps and pavement temps for this comparison? i heard it was a bit cool....
| Trbo Dad | 02-11-2004 03:11 PM |
Is this going to be a street tire class???
Are boost changes allowed???
Where can we get answers to these questions???
Are boost changes allowed???
Where can we get answers to these questions???
| stxwrxracer | 02-11-2004 03:17 PM |
Temps were right around 60 deg all day, except for later in the day when it started dropping to the mid-50s.
~Mike
~Mike
| stxwrxracer | 02-11-2004 03:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Trbo Dad[/i]
[B] Is this going to be a street tire class???
Are boost changes allowed???
Where can we get answers to these questions??? [/B][/QUOTE]
Street tires just as ST is defined. Not sure if wheel width or sizes.
No boost changes allowed except for residual from add-ons.
Call Topeka for more answers or try emailing Doug Gill at the national office.
~Mike
[B] Is this going to be a street tire class???
Are boost changes allowed???
Where can we get answers to these questions??? [/B][/QUOTE]
Street tires just as ST is defined. Not sure if wheel width or sizes.
No boost changes allowed except for residual from add-ons.
Call Topeka for more answers or try emailing Doug Gill at the national office.
~Mike
| Trbo Dad | 02-11-2004 03:24 PM |
Thanks for the quick reply. Is there any other info?
I think I will email Doug.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stxwrxracer[/i]
[B] Street tires just as ST is defined. Not sure if wheel width or sizes.
No boost changes allowed except for residual from add-ons.
Call Topeka for more answers or try emailing Doug Gill at the national office.
~Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
I think I will email Doug.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stxwrxracer[/i]
[B] Street tires just as ST is defined. Not sure if wheel width or sizes.
No boost changes allowed except for residual from add-ons.
Call Topeka for more answers or try emailing Doug Gill at the national office.
~Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
| Trbo Dad | 02-11-2004 03:25 PM |
Also -- STi and Evo are still legal in ESP, Correct?
| KC | 02-11-2004 03:29 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Trbo Dad[/i]
[B] Also -- STi and Evo are still legal in ESP, Correct? [/B][/QUOTE]
That is 100% Correct.
[B] Also -- STi and Evo are still legal in ESP, Correct? [/B][/QUOTE]
That is 100% Correct.
| stxwrxracer | 02-11-2004 03:58 PM |
More than likely, you'll see a reclassification of the STi and Evo sometime during this season in Solo 2. For it changing classes for the Pro Solo series, if it runs ESP this weekend in Atlanta, it will have to stay there until after the Pro Solo Finale in September. Understand the differentiation between Solo 2 and Pro Solo, just to clarify.
~Mike
~Mike
| afpdl | 02-11-2004 04:00 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stxwrxracer[/i]
[B] More than likely, you'll see a reclassification of the STi and Evo sometime during this season in Solo 2. For it changing classes for the Pro Solo series, if it runs ESP this weekend in Atlanta, it will have to stay there until after the Pro Solo Finale in September. Understand the differentiation between Solo 2 and Pro Solo, just to clarify.
~Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Is there going to be some new classing? Or will they just be thrown into BSP with the vettes?
[B] More than likely, you'll see a reclassification of the STi and Evo sometime during this season in Solo 2. For it changing classes for the Pro Solo series, if it runs ESP this weekend in Atlanta, it will have to stay there until after the Pro Solo Finale in September. Understand the differentiation between Solo 2 and Pro Solo, just to clarify.
~Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Is there going to be some new classing? Or will they just be thrown into BSP with the vettes?
| MNbiker | 02-11-2004 04:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl [/i]
[B]Is there going to be some new classing? Or will they just be thrown into BSP with the vettes? [/B][/QUOTE]
If they get re-classed, it will likely be to BSP. There won't be a new SP class created.
IMHO - This new STU experimental class may end up providing the SEB with a convenient way to mollify two pretty vocal groups - the ponycar camp & the STi/EVO camp.
-Steve
[B]Is there going to be some new classing? Or will they just be thrown into BSP with the vettes? [/B][/QUOTE]
If they get re-classed, it will likely be to BSP. There won't be a new SP class created.
IMHO - This new STU experimental class may end up providing the SEB with a convenient way to mollify two pretty vocal groups - the ponycar camp & the STi/EVO camp.
-Steve
| afpdl | 02-11-2004 04:13 PM |
I didnt mean a NEW class just moving several cars around not just the sti/evo. Such as vettes to asp sti/wrxs on same line and evos to bsp.
| jmott | 02-11-2004 04:37 PM |
you woulda had to step it up a notch to stay ahead of the lil red civic!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Orion [/i]
[B]only 'cause i left town. ;)
I won the 2002 HouSCCA STU title with various stages of tune, but mostly in and STX eligible car. Don't get confused that this is a recognized class, cuz it isn't outside of HouSCCA.
I don't really understand why we need to make an additional "class", what we need is an entire Street Touring [b]Category[/b]. This would include the current STS, STX, and the top ST class would be SM, even with it's R Compound allowance. It would be MUCH easier to fill in the additional classes where necessary that way. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Orion [/i]
[B]only 'cause i left town. ;)
I won the 2002 HouSCCA STU title with various stages of tune, but mostly in and STX eligible car. Don't get confused that this is a recognized class, cuz it isn't outside of HouSCCA.
I don't really understand why we need to make an additional "class", what we need is an entire Street Touring [b]Category[/b]. This would include the current STS, STX, and the top ST class would be SM, even with it's R Compound allowance. It would be MUCH easier to fill in the additional classes where necessary that way. [/B][/QUOTE]
| jmott | 02-11-2004 04:39 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zoomfactor [/i]
[B]Someone please enlighten me... we have
on the Hoosier's 2003 Autocross compound and on Hoosier road-race compound.
It seems that they are concerned that a [B]fully prepped[/B] STi is going to clean up. I know that Kiko is already running a downpipe, cat-back (which you could remove) and his old Tein HA's (8/9?). What else are you going to do to the Sti? The car comes with an awesome driveline out of the box. [/B][/QUOTE]
335 hoosiers all around?
precise camber settings
stiffer suspension bushings all around
relocated battery and/or lighter battery
lighter wheels
all sorts of goodies to be dones till =)
[B]Someone please enlighten me... we have
on the Hoosier's 2003 Autocross compound and on Hoosier road-race compound.
It seems that they are concerned that a [B]fully prepped[/B] STi is going to clean up. I know that Kiko is already running a downpipe, cat-back (which you could remove) and his old Tein HA's (8/9?). What else are you going to do to the Sti? The car comes with an awesome driveline out of the box. [/B][/QUOTE]
335 hoosiers all around?
precise camber settings
stiffer suspension bushings all around
relocated battery and/or lighter battery
lighter wheels
all sorts of goodies to be dones till =)
| Orion | 02-11-2004 05:06 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott [/i]
[B]you woulda had to step it up a notch to stay ahead of the lil red civic! [/B][/QUOTE]
oh that's been done.;)
[B]you woulda had to step it up a notch to stay ahead of the lil red civic! [/B][/QUOTE]
oh that's been done.;)
| afpdl | 02-11-2004 05:07 PM |
The civic has gotten quite a bit faster too.
| MK19_ | 02-11-2004 06:09 PM |
great, more debate material until this becomes set in stone...
| nate49509 | 02-11-2004 06:46 PM |
I'm thinking of buying an STI and this is all good news. I'd love to run it in a street tire class.
| Steve '02 WRX | 02-11-2004 07:15 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stxwrxracer [/i]
[B]I can honestly say this was a fair contest, with no sandbagging taking place. What I felt good about was that my underprepped STX car was only 0.9 off the pace of the STi and the ESP Camaro....hmm, there may still be hope for the regular WRXs in ESP...might have to check that one out sometime...
~Mike King [/B][/QUOTE]
Wait a minute. So you are saying this test was valid yet an "underprepared" STX WRX on street tires was only .9 behind a top of the class ESP camaro on new Hoosiers? So this also means a STi on new Hoosiers, the supposed overdog for ESP, is only about .8 faster than a regular WRX on street tires? :rolleyes:
That is some pretty key data to leave out of the post on the EVO list. To me it looks like another case of selective data presentation by the people arguing to get the car tossed out of ESP. I could really care less where it goes since it doesn't affect me at all, but I hate seeing bogus reasons for the car to be moved. It looks to me like the only valid data points are going to be from National Tour events. The results of this test are totally questionable now.
[B]I can honestly say this was a fair contest, with no sandbagging taking place. What I felt good about was that my underprepped STX car was only 0.9 off the pace of the STi and the ESP Camaro....hmm, there may still be hope for the regular WRXs in ESP...might have to check that one out sometime...
~Mike King [/B][/QUOTE]
Wait a minute. So you are saying this test was valid yet an "underprepared" STX WRX on street tires was only .9 behind a top of the class ESP camaro on new Hoosiers? So this also means a STi on new Hoosiers, the supposed overdog for ESP, is only about .8 faster than a regular WRX on street tires? :rolleyes:
That is some pretty key data to leave out of the post on the EVO list. To me it looks like another case of selective data presentation by the people arguing to get the car tossed out of ESP. I could really care less where it goes since it doesn't affect me at all, but I hate seeing bogus reasons for the car to be moved. It looks to me like the only valid data points are going to be from National Tour events. The results of this test are totally questionable now.
| afpdl | 02-11-2004 07:23 PM |
Yeah I noticed that too. A championship winning esp camaro should be more then a second ahead of a underprepped stx car. That test says if you threw hoosiers on the underprepped stx car you have another overdog in esp.
| Steve '02 WRX | 02-11-2004 08:08 PM |
Looking back at 2002 Nationals (Since 2003 had rain) the top WRX in STX (which probably wasn't under prepared) took 3rd place compared to Sam's 1st place in ESP in a Camaro. The WRX was only 4 seconds behind........PER DAY! (8 seconds total) So now this under prepared WRX is .9 behind Sam in a top ESP Camaro and there is nothing fishy going on here, it was a valid test. [i]Yep, those STi's are ESP overdogs I tell you![/i] :banana:
| stxwrxracer | 02-11-2004 10:39 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Steve '02 WRX[/i]
[B]
That is some pretty key data to leave out of the post on the EVO list. To me it looks like another case of selective data presentation by the people arguing to get the car tossed out of ESP. I could really care less where it goes since it doesn't affect me at all, but I hate seeing bogus reasons for the car to be moved. It looks to me like the only valid data points are going to be from National Tour events. The results of this test are totally questionable now. [/B][/QUOTE]
Remember, not data other than the data supplied by Jean Kinser has been posted to the Evo list. Sam and I were chatting about it a couple of days ago. I thought he would post something, but hasn't and I just haven't had a real chance to form up all my impressions from the weekend. I can assure you there has been no "selective data presentation" among anyone that I know of who has posted anything from the weekend. In my opinion, which was totally opposite going into Saturday, is that the STi and Evo8 are both overdogs for ESP and belong in BSP. I believe Kiko sees it now as well as everyone who was there. Granted it was on a mid-30 second Evo course, but the results are pretty telling. I am looking forward to seeing a capable driver in a capable SP STi at a Tour event or a real 60+ second Tour-style course. That will tell all I think. We'll see.....stay tuned.
~Mike
[B]
That is some pretty key data to leave out of the post on the EVO list. To me it looks like another case of selective data presentation by the people arguing to get the car tossed out of ESP. I could really care less where it goes since it doesn't affect me at all, but I hate seeing bogus reasons for the car to be moved. It looks to me like the only valid data points are going to be from National Tour events. The results of this test are totally questionable now. [/B][/QUOTE]
Remember, not data other than the data supplied by Jean Kinser has been posted to the Evo list. Sam and I were chatting about it a couple of days ago. I thought he would post something, but hasn't and I just haven't had a real chance to form up all my impressions from the weekend. I can assure you there has been no "selective data presentation" among anyone that I know of who has posted anything from the weekend. In my opinion, which was totally opposite going into Saturday, is that the STi and Evo8 are both overdogs for ESP and belong in BSP. I believe Kiko sees it now as well as everyone who was there. Granted it was on a mid-30 second Evo course, but the results are pretty telling. I am looking forward to seeing a capable driver in a capable SP STi at a Tour event or a real 60+ second Tour-style course. That will tell all I think. We'll see.....stay tuned.
~Mike
| ChrisW | 02-11-2004 11:00 PM |
It's a neat concept, but to make it apealing to the EVO crowd they are going to have to do something about the 245" tire rule.
I am currently planning on a minimum of a 255/40/17 (fits on stock rims, stock suspension, no rubbing) with a possibility of mounting a 275/40/17 :huh: but I have to work out clearance issues in the front to make that size work.... :eek:
sigh.... a 245 sized tire is just too small :banana:
As for the EVO and STI getting bumped out of ESP.... Well, that remains to be seen. I have not had the chance to run against a well prepped Camaro yet, but based on what I heard from the Pheonix results (3rd place finisher in ESP) was that the Camaro dominated in the dry (by nearly 2 seconds), while the EVO's (and all AWD cars) dominated in the wet. Both the EVO and Camaro were on Hoosiers.
I am currently planning on a minimum of a 255/40/17 (fits on stock rims, stock suspension, no rubbing) with a possibility of mounting a 275/40/17 :huh: but I have to work out clearance issues in the front to make that size work.... :eek:
sigh.... a 245 sized tire is just too small :banana:
As for the EVO and STI getting bumped out of ESP.... Well, that remains to be seen. I have not had the chance to run against a well prepped Camaro yet, but based on what I heard from the Pheonix results (3rd place finisher in ESP) was that the Camaro dominated in the dry (by nearly 2 seconds), while the EVO's (and all AWD cars) dominated in the wet. Both the EVO and Camaro were on Hoosiers.
| Sparks | 02-12-2004 08:14 AM |
2 Days away from the Atlanta PRO, time to use one of your life-lines and confirm STU
| Steve '02 WRX | 02-12-2004 08:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChrisW [/i]
[B]
...based on what I heard from the Pheonix results (3rd place finisher in ESP) was that the Camaro dominated in the dry (by nearly 2 seconds), while the EVO's (and all AWD cars) dominated in the wet. Both the EVO and Camaro were on Hoosiers. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's what I would expect really, I think it is going to be very course dependant. One of the arguments that current ESP competitors have used is that there will now be course dependencies in the results, but that is true in a lot of classes and isn't a reason to bump the cars out of the class. If on a dry Nationals syle course the EVO and STi are noteably faster, then they should be moved. If they are even just a little faster, they are probably in the right class. The problem there is that if they are faster at all the current ESP guys don't want them. It isn't fair to bump them to BSP where they are going to be competing against M3's if they aren't running those times.
[quote][b]Remember, not data other than the data supplied by Jean Kinser has been posted to the Evo list.[/b][/quote]
My post wasn't intended to accuse you of anything, just point out what I think is a very important fact about the testing. I read the Evolution list post and had a totally different interpretation of it before reading your post about the regular WRX. People even in this thread were mentioning the results as posted by Jean, once you hear more though the results look a lot different.
[B]
...based on what I heard from the Pheonix results (3rd place finisher in ESP) was that the Camaro dominated in the dry (by nearly 2 seconds), while the EVO's (and all AWD cars) dominated in the wet. Both the EVO and Camaro were on Hoosiers. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's what I would expect really, I think it is going to be very course dependant. One of the arguments that current ESP competitors have used is that there will now be course dependencies in the results, but that is true in a lot of classes and isn't a reason to bump the cars out of the class. If on a dry Nationals syle course the EVO and STi are noteably faster, then they should be moved. If they are even just a little faster, they are probably in the right class. The problem there is that if they are faster at all the current ESP guys don't want them. It isn't fair to bump them to BSP where they are going to be competing against M3's if they aren't running those times.
[quote][b]Remember, not data other than the data supplied by Jean Kinser has been posted to the Evo list.[/b][/quote]
My post wasn't intended to accuse you of anything, just point out what I think is a very important fact about the testing. I read the Evolution list post and had a totally different interpretation of it before reading your post about the regular WRX. People even in this thread were mentioning the results as posted by Jean, once you hear more though the results look a lot different.
| stxwrxracer | 02-12-2004 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Steve '02 WRX[/i]
[B]
My post wasn't intended to accuse you of anything, just point out what I think is a very important fact about the testing. I read the Evolution list post and had a totally different interpretation of it before reading your post about the regular WRX. People even in this thread were mentioning the results as posted by Jean, once you hear more though the results look a lot different. [/B][/QUOTE]
Just remember this too. I'm used to my WRX as well. The whole day (7-8 runs in the STi and 2 runs in the Camaro), I was fighting to learn how to drive them. I'm used to smaller, front/AWD cars, and for me to step right into a Camaro, never driving a Camaro before in my life on an autocross course, was a challenge. I spun the STi twice, just because I couldn't keep the car behind me..I think it needs a bigger front bar. Its just much easier to be fast in an STi than the Camaro. Size, weight, traction everywhere (unless you're trying to keep the back end behind you). Its just faster...what can I say. I didn't want it to be. I was hoping everyone could play in ESP, but....we'll see.
~Mike
[B]
My post wasn't intended to accuse you of anything, just point out what I think is a very important fact about the testing. I read the Evolution list post and had a totally different interpretation of it before reading your post about the regular WRX. People even in this thread were mentioning the results as posted by Jean, once you hear more though the results look a lot different. [/B][/QUOTE]
Just remember this too. I'm used to my WRX as well. The whole day (7-8 runs in the STi and 2 runs in the Camaro), I was fighting to learn how to drive them. I'm used to smaller, front/AWD cars, and for me to step right into a Camaro, never driving a Camaro before in my life on an autocross course, was a challenge. I spun the STi twice, just because I couldn't keep the car behind me..I think it needs a bigger front bar. Its just much easier to be fast in an STi than the Camaro. Size, weight, traction everywhere (unless you're trying to keep the back end behind you). Its just faster...what can I say. I didn't want it to be. I was hoping everyone could play in ESP, but....we'll see.
~Mike
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