| z3coupe | 06-12-2006 01:24 AM |
[QUOTE]Win some events, let us all know. Thats the true test. Some guy will protest you, then a ruling will be made. Tough way to clarify gray areas, but sometimes its best. Good luck![/QUOTE]Ahh, the Tom Hoppe school of thought :devil: Better yet, just let Tom drive your car with this on, and voila, it WILL be automatically made legal for next time :D [QUOTE]He probably stuck his head in teh sand and refuses to believe his product is flawed in anyway[/QUOTE]Yet he gave me a rash of **** when I had problems with the bolt rubbing :furious: [QUOTE]No one ever called[/QUOTE]What was I supposed to do, hold the phone up to the bolt so he could see it? :lol:
| VpointVick | 06-12-2006 06:30 AM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Yet he gave me a rash of **** when I had problems with the bolt rubbing :furious: What was I supposed to do, hold the phone up to the bolt so he could see it? :lol:[/QUOTE]
You could have called and discussed the problem with him instead of publicly calling him out on an internet forum for a problem that he couldn't possibly have predicted. :rolleyes:
If you had discussed possible solutions with him first, and then posted, he may not have been as defensive as he was.
I see this kind of crap on the mountain bike forums all the time. Somebody has a (sometimes imaginary) problem with a product and instead of calling and talking with anybody that might be able to [i]fix[/i] their problem they start trashing the manufacturer all over the boards.
You could have called and discussed the problem with him instead of publicly calling him out on an internet forum for a problem that he couldn't possibly have predicted. :rolleyes:
If you had discussed possible solutions with him first, and then posted, he may not have been as defensive as he was.
I see this kind of crap on the mountain bike forums all the time. Somebody has a (sometimes imaginary) problem with a product and instead of calling and talking with anybody that might be able to [i]fix[/i] their problem they start trashing the manufacturer all over the boards.
| subieworx | 06-12-2006 08:09 AM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]I will be using Energy Suspension bushing kit purchased from Autozone, it has the bushings in eight packs. For about $12.00, you can have your cake and eat it too. ;) Hopefully pics some time tonight. I'll talk to you guys later, I have to get busy cleaning out garage so I can put all this together today.[/QUOTE]
Those bushings actually work very well. I have been using them on my mr2 for over 6 months with no problems.
Those bushings actually work very well. I have been using them on my mr2 for over 6 months with no problems.
| subieworx | 06-12-2006 08:17 AM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]You could have called and discussed the problem with him instead of publicly calling him out on an internet forum for a problem that he couldn't possibly have predicted. :rolleyes:
If you had discussed possible solutions with him first, and then posted, he may not have been as defensive as he was.
I see this kind of crap on the mountain bike forums all the time. Somebody has a (sometimes imaginary) problem with a product and instead of calling and talking with anybody that might be able to [i]fix[/i] their problem they start trashing the manufacturer all over the boards.[/QUOTE]
If when that happens (and I should know) it is still not within good business practice for a vendor/manufacturer to give the customer a hard time. So the customer may have flown off the handle a bit, it is then the responsibility of the vendor to fix the problem (whether perceived or actual byt the customer) so taht everything works out. (It's better to fight a fire with water than gasoline)
If you had discussed possible solutions with him first, and then posted, he may not have been as defensive as he was.
I see this kind of crap on the mountain bike forums all the time. Somebody has a (sometimes imaginary) problem with a product and instead of calling and talking with anybody that might be able to [i]fix[/i] their problem they start trashing the manufacturer all over the boards.[/QUOTE]
If when that happens (and I should know) it is still not within good business practice for a vendor/manufacturer to give the customer a hard time. So the customer may have flown off the handle a bit, it is then the responsibility of the vendor to fix the problem (whether perceived or actual byt the customer) so taht everything works out. (It's better to fight a fire with water than gasoline)
| VpointVick | 06-12-2006 08:31 AM |
[QUOTE=subieworx]If when that happens (and I should know) it is still not within good business practice for a vendor/manufacturer to give the customer a hard time. So the customer may have flown off the handle a bit, it is then the responsibility of the vendor to fix the problem (whether perceived or actual byt the customer) so taht everything works out. (It's better to fight a fire with water than gasoline)[/QUOTE]
I agree. And in this case Sam asked for anybody that had the rubbing problem to contact him directly to discuss solutions. [i]No one ever did![/i]
The only thing I remember Sam giving anybody crap about was not calling to talk to him about the problem.
I agree. And in this case Sam asked for anybody that had the rubbing problem to contact him directly to discuss solutions. [i]No one ever did![/i]
The only thing I remember Sam giving anybody crap about was not calling to talk to him about the problem.
| Arnie | 06-12-2006 09:53 AM |
I think in Z3's case, he was simply trying to guage how many folk on this board have had similar issues. He wasn't trying to publicly crucify Strano. Most people use these boards to get tech info, to compare experiences, see if stuff is installed correctly. And most people come to a forum first if they have an issue because most of the time the reaction time is quicker and the answers, perhaps more honest.
As far as a problem Strano could not have predicted, well, that's usually what R&D is all about. From what I gathered, this bar was tested and produced for one car and then mass produced. But it seems like the R&D is happening with the customer's cars.
As far as a problem Strano could not have predicted, well, that's usually what R&D is all about. From what I gathered, this bar was tested and produced for one car and then mass produced. But it seems like the R&D is happening with the customer's cars.
| VpointVick | 06-12-2006 10:11 AM |
[QUOTE=Arnie]I think in Z3's case, he was simply trying to guage how many folk on this board have had similar issues. He wasn't trying to publicly crucify Strano. Most people use these boards to get tech info, to compare experiences, see if stuff is installed correctly. And most people come to a forum first if they have an issue because most of the time the reaction time is quicker and the answers, perhaps more honest.
As far as a problem Strano could not have predicted, well, that's usually what R&D is all about. From what I gathered, this bar was tested and produced for one car and then mass produced. But it seems like the R&D is happening with the customer's cars.[/QUOTE]
This is what you call a "cottage industry" part. Produced in small numbers for a specific market, which in this case are motorsoprts enthusiasts. If you want a part like this to have full r+d on a hundred different cars, you'll never get it. The total market for this bar may not be much more than a hundred cars, how many do expect them to test it on?
They tested it on one car, an '05 STi, and it fit. It's fit on 90% of the cars that have used it. If it doesn't fit on your car maybe you should let the people who make it know that so they can make any changes if neccesary. That's how the cottage industry works.
In Z3's case, he posted up here about it, got some very good suggestions on how to make it work, and then started ranting about how it should have worked right in the first place. He didn't want to make it work, he wanted to bitch. That's why he never called Sam.
There are some issues with this bar on some cars, but the way this whole thing has been handled is ridiculous.
As far as a problem Strano could not have predicted, well, that's usually what R&D is all about. From what I gathered, this bar was tested and produced for one car and then mass produced. But it seems like the R&D is happening with the customer's cars.[/QUOTE]
This is what you call a "cottage industry" part. Produced in small numbers for a specific market, which in this case are motorsoprts enthusiasts. If you want a part like this to have full r+d on a hundred different cars, you'll never get it. The total market for this bar may not be much more than a hundred cars, how many do expect them to test it on?
They tested it on one car, an '05 STi, and it fit. It's fit on 90% of the cars that have used it. If it doesn't fit on your car maybe you should let the people who make it know that so they can make any changes if neccesary. That's how the cottage industry works.
In Z3's case, he posted up here about it, got some very good suggestions on how to make it work, and then started ranting about how it should have worked right in the first place. He didn't want to make it work, he wanted to bitch. That's why he never called Sam.
There are some issues with this bar on some cars, but the way this whole thing has been handled is ridiculous.
| Draken | 06-12-2006 11:12 AM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]
There are some issues with this bar on some cars, but the way this whole thing has been handled is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
A few of us in an IRC room have joked about this situation, and we predicted weeks ago:
IBnobodycalledme
IBitsaracepart
IBcastingflaw
IBisweartogoditsstifferthanawhitelineexcepticantproveitbecauseidontknowbasicmath
IBtheyarethebestendlinksbecausetheyusethemonfbodies
When it's all said and done, this bar will prove one thing. People will believe whatever they are told. Well, that...and that customer service is for pussies.
Chris H.
There are some issues with this bar on some cars, but the way this whole thing has been handled is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
A few of us in an IRC room have joked about this situation, and we predicted weeks ago:
IBnobodycalledme
IBitsaracepart
IBcastingflaw
IBisweartogoditsstifferthanawhitelineexcepticantproveitbecauseidontknowbasicmath
IBtheyarethebestendlinksbecausetheyusethemonfbodies
When it's all said and done, this bar will prove one thing. People will believe whatever they are told. Well, that...and that customer service is for pussies.
Chris H.
| wrxkix | 06-12-2006 12:14 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]That looks like a lot of work.
I would opt for a larger flat washer on the control arm though.[/QUOTE]
The washer rests on a raised portion of the control arm. Anthing larger in diameter would not be contacting the control arm. The raised portion is hard to see in those pics.
I would opt for a larger flat washer on the control arm though.[/QUOTE]
The washer rests on a raised portion of the control arm. Anthing larger in diameter would not be contacting the control arm. The raised portion is hard to see in those pics.
| Sideshowbob | 06-12-2006 01:14 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]That looks like a lot of work.
I would opt for a Whiteline bar and skip all this hacking stuff together for the same effective bar rates[/QUOTE]
+1 ;)
I would opt for a Whiteline bar and skip all this hacking stuff together for the same effective bar rates[/QUOTE]
+1 ;)
| wrxkix | 06-12-2006 06:47 PM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]What application are the bushings or part #?[/QUOTE]
I do not know what application they were for. It is what they had on the shelf at the time. Obviously they are too short for this application so I don't recommend going with the same part number I used. I would say make sure you get bushings that are at least the same the size that came with the kit, if not a little thicker to get the bar away from the mounting bracket.
I do not know what application they were for. It is what they had on the shelf at the time. Obviously they are too short for this application so I don't recommend going with the same part number I used. I would say make sure you get bushings that are at least the same the size that came with the kit, if not a little thicker to get the bar away from the mounting bracket.
| RedTRex | 06-12-2006 06:56 PM |
too funny.....:lol:
[QUOTE=Draken]A few of us in an IRC room have joked about this situation, and we predicted weeks ago:
IBnobodycalledme
IBitsaracepart
IBcastingflaw
IBisweartogoditsstifferthanawhitelineexcepticantproveitbecauseidontknowbasicmath
IBtheyarethebestendlinksbecausetheyusethemonfbodies
When it's all said and done, this bar will prove one thing. People will believe whatever they are told. Well, that...and that customer service is for pussies.
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Draken]A few of us in an IRC room have joked about this situation, and we predicted weeks ago:
IBnobodycalledme
IBitsaracepart
IBcastingflaw
IBisweartogoditsstifferthanawhitelineexcepticantproveitbecauseidontknowbasicmath
IBtheyarethebestendlinksbecausetheyusethemonfbodies
When it's all said and done, this bar will prove one thing. People will believe whatever they are told. Well, that...and that customer service is for pussies.
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
| Impreza01 | 06-12-2006 07:00 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]A few of us in an IRC room have joked about this situation, and we predicted weeks ago:
IBisweartogoditsstifferthanawhitelineexcepticantproveitbecauseidontknowbasicmath
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
See, that's the one line that pisses me off. It's basic mechanics to prove the Whiteline bar does act as a 29mm bar on the stiffest setting, and then we have a swaybar manufacturer who says it doesn't work because of some voodoo logic in his head. I'm totally against his products after he failed that question AND is sticking his head in the sand about the broken control arm issues.
IBisweartogoditsstifferthanawhitelineexcepticantproveitbecauseidontknowbasicmath
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
See, that's the one line that pisses me off. It's basic mechanics to prove the Whiteline bar does act as a 29mm bar on the stiffest setting, and then we have a swaybar manufacturer who says it doesn't work because of some voodoo logic in his head. I'm totally against his products after he failed that question AND is sticking his head in the sand about the broken control arm issues.
| VpointVick | 06-12-2006 07:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Impreza01]See, that's the one line that pisses me off. It's basic mechanics to prove the Whiteline bar does act as a 29mm bar on the stiffest setting, and then we have a swaybar manufacturer who says it doesn't work because of some voodoo logic in his head. I'm totally against his products after he failed that question AND is sticking his head in the sand about the broken control arm issues.[/QUOTE]
Sam is a driver and not an engineer, obviously. :rolleyes:
Sam is a driver and not an engineer, obviously. :rolleyes:
| Impreza01 | 06-12-2006 08:16 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]Sam is a driver and not an engineer, obviously. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: Then he should have not been talking as if he knew the facts. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: Then he should have not been talking as if he knew the facts. :rolleyes:
| silver arrow | 06-12-2006 09:55 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]You could have called and discussed the problem with him instead of publicly calling him out on an internet forum for a problem that he couldn't possibly have predicted. :rolleyes:
If you had discussed possible solutions with him first, and then posted, he may not have been as defensive as he was.
[/QUOTE]
Just search sstranos and see the wonderful customer support. I'm glad you aren't having any problems with your bar and have had good support from Sam, but others haven't and he has been defensive about any questions or problems with the bar on more than one occasion. Reread the frist post in this thread, I don't think it is over the top. Simply states he is having this problem and wants to know if others are too. If you you recall, asking Sam if their is a problem with the bar gets you a "Doesn't happen on our test car and no one's called me, so you must be over reacting internet mechanic" responses. The proper response is "I havent seen this but I will look into it and if it's a problem we will see if we can find a solution". Everyone here has been very understanding that this is a racing part and may require some fitting and experimentation to make it work, but their is no excuse for Sams poor attitude and customer service. Maybe F-body guys don't care about customer support but I do. I will not be giving Strano any business in the future and will let anyone that want's to know what poor support they give and let them make the decision if the bar is worth the effort and dealing with Sam.
If you had discussed possible solutions with him first, and then posted, he may not have been as defensive as he was.
[/QUOTE]
Just search sstranos and see the wonderful customer support. I'm glad you aren't having any problems with your bar and have had good support from Sam, but others haven't and he has been defensive about any questions or problems with the bar on more than one occasion. Reread the frist post in this thread, I don't think it is over the top. Simply states he is having this problem and wants to know if others are too. If you you recall, asking Sam if their is a problem with the bar gets you a "Doesn't happen on our test car and no one's called me, so you must be over reacting internet mechanic" responses. The proper response is "I havent seen this but I will look into it and if it's a problem we will see if we can find a solution". Everyone here has been very understanding that this is a racing part and may require some fitting and experimentation to make it work, but their is no excuse for Sams poor attitude and customer service. Maybe F-body guys don't care about customer support but I do. I will not be giving Strano any business in the future and will let anyone that want's to know what poor support they give and let them make the decision if the bar is worth the effort and dealing with Sam.
| silver arrow | 06-12-2006 10:04 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]Sam is a driver and not an engineer, obviously. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Again, I sugest that you look at the long thread about the Whiteline and Strano bar, Sam seems to be able to speak in technical terms when he wants to, but never brings the data or math to back it up. :rolleyes: VpointVick isn't an alia for Sam? Either that or your related to him. :lol: The point isn't whether Sam is a good guy or a good driver, I sure he is both. The point is the bar has some issues and instead of jumping in to help find a solutionhe has been very unhelpful. I shouldn't have to say pretty
please or stroke someones ego to get customer support, nor will I. That's why I will choose to not do business with him again. If I can't get this bar to work reasonably well, not break arms and find sturdier bushings that last more than 4-6 months, I will just buy a properly engineered product from a reputable company that stands behind its products, namely the WL bar. Enjoy your Stranos bar, I hope you have better luck with it than the rest of us. ;) BTW, do you have the Stranos bar on your car?
Again, I sugest that you look at the long thread about the Whiteline and Strano bar, Sam seems to be able to speak in technical terms when he wants to, but never brings the data or math to back it up. :rolleyes: VpointVick isn't an alia for Sam? Either that or your related to him. :lol: The point isn't whether Sam is a good guy or a good driver, I sure he is both. The point is the bar has some issues and instead of jumping in to help find a solutionhe has been very unhelpful. I shouldn't have to say pretty
please or stroke someones ego to get customer support, nor will I. That's why I will choose to not do business with him again. If I can't get this bar to work reasonably well, not break arms and find sturdier bushings that last more than 4-6 months, I will just buy a properly engineered product from a reputable company that stands behind its products, namely the WL bar. Enjoy your Stranos bar, I hope you have better luck with it than the rest of us. ;) BTW, do you have the Stranos bar on your car?
| silver arrow | 06-12-2006 10:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Impreza01]:rolleyes: Then he should have not been talking as if he knew the facts. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
+1........... :disco:
+1........... :disco:
| WRXedUSA | 06-12-2006 11:17 PM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]I do not know what application they were for. It is what they had on the shelf at the time. Obviously they are too short for this application so I don't recommend going with the same part number I used. I would say make sure you get bushings that are at least the same the size that came with the kit, if not a little thicker to get the bar away from the mounting bracket.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Doesnt take a Phd.to look at the bracket hardware and see that the whole geometry is thrown off and places unwanted stress on the stock components when it doesnt have to.
Vpoint, Silverarrow,
I've been guilty of calling out a manufacturer before without consulting them first for support. I quickly fixed my errors, learned that was not the proper approach, the problem was resolved with the manufacturer.
I don't think this thread started that way. If anything this thread started out right, was non-confrontational (no pointing fingers) and the truth did pan out over time. This is probably one of the healthiest discussions I've read in a while.
Exactly. Doesnt take a Phd.to look at the bracket hardware and see that the whole geometry is thrown off and places unwanted stress on the stock components when it doesnt have to.
Vpoint, Silverarrow,
I've been guilty of calling out a manufacturer before without consulting them first for support. I quickly fixed my errors, learned that was not the proper approach, the problem was resolved with the manufacturer.
I don't think this thread started that way. If anything this thread started out right, was non-confrontational (no pointing fingers) and the truth did pan out over time. This is probably one of the healthiest discussions I've read in a while.
| VpointVick | 06-12-2006 11:30 PM |
I suggest that you re-read some of this thread.
z3 said on several occasions how he wasn't trashing strano, but then in other posts blasted him for releasing a part that might need some shims or bolt changed.
As for stroking someones ego to get customer support, :confused: how about a phone call or a direct email instead of opening up to a bunch of yahoos on an internet forum?
I don't know where the hell Sam got his ideas on how a moment arm work, but they sure as hell didn't come out of any physics class, and I argued that with him at that time (that was in [i]this very thread[/i] by the way), and in my last post I gave a response indicating how ridiculous I thought he was with those arguments.
I have no connection at all to Sam Strano apart from encouraging him to make a big bar that would fit wagons. I don't even run his bar, I'm about to buy the Whiteline 27/29 because I now know that it'll fit the wagon and I can't wait for Sam to get Addco moving. It just pisses me off when people have a problem with a product, especially a low volume part like this, and open fire on a public forum like this instead of taking it to the source. :furious:
If [i]you've[/i] got a problem with your Strano bar, I suggest that you call Sam if you want "customer service" as posting here can hardly be considered a customer service request. If you don't want to do that, and you'd rather take three posts at a time to blast [i]me[/i] then I've got a few more suggestions for what you should do with your Strano bar. :devil:
z3 said on several occasions how he wasn't trashing strano, but then in other posts blasted him for releasing a part that might need some shims or bolt changed.
As for stroking someones ego to get customer support, :confused: how about a phone call or a direct email instead of opening up to a bunch of yahoos on an internet forum?
I don't know where the hell Sam got his ideas on how a moment arm work, but they sure as hell didn't come out of any physics class, and I argued that with him at that time (that was in [i]this very thread[/i] by the way), and in my last post I gave a response indicating how ridiculous I thought he was with those arguments.
I have no connection at all to Sam Strano apart from encouraging him to make a big bar that would fit wagons. I don't even run his bar, I'm about to buy the Whiteline 27/29 because I now know that it'll fit the wagon and I can't wait for Sam to get Addco moving. It just pisses me off when people have a problem with a product, especially a low volume part like this, and open fire on a public forum like this instead of taking it to the source. :furious:
If [i]you've[/i] got a problem with your Strano bar, I suggest that you call Sam if you want "customer service" as posting here can hardly be considered a customer service request. If you don't want to do that, and you'd rather take three posts at a time to blast [i]me[/i] then I've got a few more suggestions for what you should do with your Strano bar. :devil:
| VpointVick | 06-12-2006 11:34 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]Exactly. Doesnt take a Phd.to look at the bracket hardware and see that the whole geometry is thrown off and places unwanted stress on the stock components when it doesnt have to.
Vpoint, Silverarrow,
I've been guilty of calling out a manufacturer before without consulting them first for support. I quickly fixed my errors, learned that was not the proper approach, the problem was resolved with the manufacturer.
I don't think this thread started that way. If anything this thread started out right, was non-confrontational (no pointing fingers) and the truth did pan out over time. This is probably one of the healthiest discussions I've read in a while.[/QUOTE]
Your right. This thread didn't start out all bad, apart from the expectation that Sam would somehow stumble upon it and address the issue without being asked, it was right her that it turned nasty.
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail? And even ordered it specifically for an 05 STi? If it needs modifications like this, why weren't the parts needed in the box? Or instructions on how to make it fit in the (one page poor photocopy) instruction sheet? Let me make this clear - I am NOT bashing this bar!!!!! But I think it went out the door a wee bit premature. I don't mind being a beta tester, as long as I am knowingly signing up to be one.[/QUOTE]
And it's been pretty much like that ever since.
Vpoint, Silverarrow,
I've been guilty of calling out a manufacturer before without consulting them first for support. I quickly fixed my errors, learned that was not the proper approach, the problem was resolved with the manufacturer.
I don't think this thread started that way. If anything this thread started out right, was non-confrontational (no pointing fingers) and the truth did pan out over time. This is probably one of the healthiest discussions I've read in a while.[/QUOTE]
Your right. This thread didn't start out all bad, apart from the expectation that Sam would somehow stumble upon it and address the issue without being asked, it was right her that it turned nasty.
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Well now my BIG question - WHY should we have to do this? Wasn't this supposed to be tested, and the design approved for retail? And even ordered it specifically for an 05 STi? If it needs modifications like this, why weren't the parts needed in the box? Or instructions on how to make it fit in the (one page poor photocopy) instruction sheet? Let me make this clear - I am NOT bashing this bar!!!!! But I think it went out the door a wee bit premature. I don't mind being a beta tester, as long as I am knowingly signing up to be one.[/QUOTE]
And it's been pretty much like that ever since.
| silver arrow | 06-13-2006 12:06 AM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]I suggest that you re-read some of this thread.
z3 said on several occasions how he wasn't trashing strano, but then in other posts blasted him for releasing a part that might need some shims or bolt changed.
As for stroking someones ego to get customer support, :confused: how about a phone call or a direct email instead of opening up to a bunch of yahoos on an internet forum?
I don't know where the hell Sam got his ideas on how a moment arm work, but they sure as hell didn't come out of any physics class, and I argued that with him at that time (that was in [i]this very thread[/i] by the way), and in my last post I gave a response indicating how ridiculous I thought he was with those arguments.
I have no connection at all to Sam Strano apart from encouraging him to make a big bar that would fit wagons. I don't even run his bar, I'm about to buy the Whiteline 27/29 because I now know that it'll fit the wagon and I can't wait for Sam to get Addco moving. It just pisses me off when people have a problem with a product, especially a low volume part like this, and open fire on a public forum like this instead of taking it to the source. :furious:
If [i]you've[/i] got a problem with your Strano bar, I suggest that you call Sam if you want "customer service" as posting here can hardly be considered a customer service request. If you don't want to do that, and you'd rather take three posts at a time to blast [i]me[/i] then I've got a few more suggestions for what you should do with your Strano bar. :devil:[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I stopped listening after you said you didn't even own the swaybar. :rolleyes:
z3 said on several occasions how he wasn't trashing strano, but then in other posts blasted him for releasing a part that might need some shims or bolt changed.
As for stroking someones ego to get customer support, :confused: how about a phone call or a direct email instead of opening up to a bunch of yahoos on an internet forum?
I don't know where the hell Sam got his ideas on how a moment arm work, but they sure as hell didn't come out of any physics class, and I argued that with him at that time (that was in [i]this very thread[/i] by the way), and in my last post I gave a response indicating how ridiculous I thought he was with those arguments.
I have no connection at all to Sam Strano apart from encouraging him to make a big bar that would fit wagons. I don't even run his bar, I'm about to buy the Whiteline 27/29 because I now know that it'll fit the wagon and I can't wait for Sam to get Addco moving. It just pisses me off when people have a problem with a product, especially a low volume part like this, and open fire on a public forum like this instead of taking it to the source. :furious:
If [i]you've[/i] got a problem with your Strano bar, I suggest that you call Sam if you want "customer service" as posting here can hardly be considered a customer service request. If you don't want to do that, and you'd rather take three posts at a time to blast [i]me[/i] then I've got a few more suggestions for what you should do with your Strano bar. :devil:[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I stopped listening after you said you didn't even own the swaybar. :rolleyes:
| Impreza01 | 06-13-2006 12:15 AM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]Your right. This thread didn't start out all bad, apart from the expectation that Sam would somehow stumble upon it and address the issue without being asked, it was right her that it turned nasty.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on this point: the OP should have e-mailed Sam first. However, if you think about it, not all bad has come out of it. This issue and the control arm issue could have been potentially swept under the rug or ignored, allowing many customers by a part that will result in headaches.
I must say though, wrxkix talked to Sam about it, and Sam blamed it on bad casting of the control arms (I'm not sure if he just blamed it on the first break or he blamed it on both of wrxkix's busted control arms) and refuse to address the issue. Like wrxkix, I think even if the OP did e-mail Sam, the issue would still have degenerated into some heated discussion on the forums.
I agree with you on this point: the OP should have e-mailed Sam first. However, if you think about it, not all bad has come out of it. This issue and the control arm issue could have been potentially swept under the rug or ignored, allowing many customers by a part that will result in headaches.
I must say though, wrxkix talked to Sam about it, and Sam blamed it on bad casting of the control arms (I'm not sure if he just blamed it on the first break or he blamed it on both of wrxkix's busted control arms) and refuse to address the issue. Like wrxkix, I think even if the OP did e-mail Sam, the issue would still have degenerated into some heated discussion on the forums.
| WRXedUSA | 06-13-2006 12:25 AM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]I suggest that you re-read some of this thread.
z3 said on several occasions how he wasn't trashing strano, but then in other posts blasted him for releasing a part that might need some shims or bolt changed.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is in short, what I said above. It didnt start out that way, as I reference the original post.
z3 said on several occasions how he wasn't trashing strano, but then in other posts blasted him for releasing a part that might need some shims or bolt changed.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is in short, what I said above. It didnt start out that way, as I reference the original post.
| z3coupe | 06-13-2006 05:39 AM |
[QUOTE=WRXedUSA]Yes, that is in short, what I said above. It didnt start out that way, as I reference the original post.[/QUOTE]No, it did not start out that way, and I did not intend it to end the other way, BUT. In my defence: I originally posted to see if others had the same problem. Just like when there is a computer problem, and you see a "trend" of similar problems, it will help to pinpoint what could be a flaw. [B]If it was just my car, then fine, I would have had to figure out a fix and leave it at that[/B]. But, it turned out there were others also having the same issue. So to me, that did show there was a flaw somewhere - and not just me or my car. Thus that means there was a design flaw (at that moment, a tiny one). Finding out later that the only R&D done on this was just one car is ridiculous for something that was going to be sold retail, even if in limited quanities. So to flame me for expecting something sold retail to fit is right? Were there any disclaimers saying fitting is up to you, or mileage may vary? Nope. And before I bought the bar, I talked to Sam over the phone and some E-Mails where he talked me out of the WL bar. Never mentioned how it would not fit, just told me his was the BETTER bar to get, and how the WL bar would not be as good. If you want to flame me, do so for being gullible to Sam, not for thinking I should have recieved a part that fit right the first time.
And if I may ask, why does the WL bar fit perfectly, with no modifications at all needed, if it too is branded a "RACE" part, and also is a somewhat limited production part? Oh, and by the way, the WL XRD bar is listed as a RACE part, but no where did I ever see (or hear from Sam himself) that his bar was a "RACE" bar, or off road use only.
Now, as to the broken control arms - what if I had never started this post? Would anyone else have thought to post and see if others had the same thing happening? Maybe, but who knows now. But at least some GOOD has come of my post, and information sharing (sometimes to be found between the lines and flames) to the point that you ALL have tried to find, and perhaps succeeded, to find solutions to this mess. But now with the control arms breaking [QUOTE]I must say though, wrxkix talked to Sam about it, and Sam blamed it on bad casting of the control arms (I'm not sure if he just blamed it on the first break or he blamed it on both of wrxkix's busted control arms) and [B]refuse to address the issue[/B].[/QUOTE]This is a much more serious situation, and really does call for a redesign. Yet still nothing will be done about it. If it weren't for wrxkix, there might never have been a solution to the more major problem (great job by the way!!!).
As for you VpointVick, you flame (only) me to defend Sam, yet you don't even have his bar? And you hide behind an excuse to boot, and are even going with the WL bar too - perhaps then, even you learned something informative from these posts? :disco:
And if I may ask, why does the WL bar fit perfectly, with no modifications at all needed, if it too is branded a "RACE" part, and also is a somewhat limited production part? Oh, and by the way, the WL XRD bar is listed as a RACE part, but no where did I ever see (or hear from Sam himself) that his bar was a "RACE" bar, or off road use only.
Now, as to the broken control arms - what if I had never started this post? Would anyone else have thought to post and see if others had the same thing happening? Maybe, but who knows now. But at least some GOOD has come of my post, and information sharing (sometimes to be found between the lines and flames) to the point that you ALL have tried to find, and perhaps succeeded, to find solutions to this mess. But now with the control arms breaking [QUOTE]I must say though, wrxkix talked to Sam about it, and Sam blamed it on bad casting of the control arms (I'm not sure if he just blamed it on the first break or he blamed it on both of wrxkix's busted control arms) and [B]refuse to address the issue[/B].[/QUOTE]This is a much more serious situation, and really does call for a redesign. Yet still nothing will be done about it. If it weren't for wrxkix, there might never have been a solution to the more major problem (great job by the way!!!).
As for you VpointVick, you flame (only) me to defend Sam, yet you don't even have his bar? And you hide behind an excuse to boot, and are even going with the WL bar too - perhaps then, even you learned something informative from these posts? :disco:
| VpointVick | 06-13-2006 06:20 AM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]As for you VpointVick, you flame (only) me to defend Sam, yet you don't even have his bar? And you hide behind an excuse to boot, and are even going with the WL bar too - perhaps then, even you learned something informative from these posts? :disco:[/QUOTE]
What excuse am I hiding behind? :confused:
I'm putting a WL bar on because I'm tired of my wagon scraping the door handles. It's taking too long for Sam to get Addco going on a wagon version of his bar, otherwise I would likely run it for the weight savings. If I had aluminum control arms and planned on running R-comps, I might have to think about it a little harder.
I've never argued that there wasn't a possible problem with Sam's bar, all along my argument has been that you guys are handling the situation wrong. If you have a problem with a product, contact the manufacturer. wrxix did the first time, Sam suggested that it was possibly a casting flaw, but by his own admission didn't contact him about the second one. Apparently only one other person has contacted him regarding broken CA's. How is he supposed to judge whats happening if he doesn't have data?
Sam has been guilty of handling this deal badly too. By letting it bother him that you all are buzzing crappy product and poor CS, he's gotten really defensive and been a little snippy, but his message has been the same all along. He can't deal with it as a customer service issue if the customers that need service don't contact him.
Did you ever contact him regarding the rubbing on your car?
What excuse am I hiding behind? :confused:
I'm putting a WL bar on because I'm tired of my wagon scraping the door handles. It's taking too long for Sam to get Addco going on a wagon version of his bar, otherwise I would likely run it for the weight savings. If I had aluminum control arms and planned on running R-comps, I might have to think about it a little harder.
I've never argued that there wasn't a possible problem with Sam's bar, all along my argument has been that you guys are handling the situation wrong. If you have a problem with a product, contact the manufacturer. wrxix did the first time, Sam suggested that it was possibly a casting flaw, but by his own admission didn't contact him about the second one. Apparently only one other person has contacted him regarding broken CA's. How is he supposed to judge whats happening if he doesn't have data?
Sam has been guilty of handling this deal badly too. By letting it bother him that you all are buzzing crappy product and poor CS, he's gotten really defensive and been a little snippy, but his message has been the same all along. He can't deal with it as a customer service issue if the customers that need service don't contact him.
Did you ever contact him regarding the rubbing on your car?
| z3coupe | 06-13-2006 06:43 AM |
[QUOTE]I've never argued that there wasn't a possible problem with Sam's bar, all along my argument has been that you guys are handling the situation wrong. If you have a problem with a product, contact the manufacturer. wrxix did the first time, Sam suggested that it was possibly a casting flaw, but by his own admission didn't contact him about the second one. Apparently only one other person has contacted him regarding broken CA's. [B]How is he supposed to judge whats happening if he doesn't have data?[/B] [/QUOTE]How? Geez, you can now even order a pizza LIVE and ONLINE in the computer game Everquest, while still playing it - an 8 year old in mainland China can access the Lourve in France from his classroom, yet Sam can't get the data :confused: This is not the age of 2 tin cans on a string. Everything is on the Internet now, and sadly, many stores (remember Egghead?) closed so as to be online only. The new Windows called Vista is going to have the Internet built into it practically. And honestly, which would help better for data gathering? Holding the phone to the bolt, or posting a pix here in the Subaru specific (and motorsports specific at that) forum? A pic or a sound clip is a lot better than "gee, my car made a kling, boing, zing" sound, what could that be? How could wrxkix have explained his solution if it weren't for the pics he could post here?
And even if we called, how would I know if others had called, if there was a common occurance that needed to be addressed, if I was not informed as such? Not saying Sam would not tell us, but it has happened in the past unless all involved physically knew what was going on. But by posting the problems here, we ALL can get a much faster grasp of what is going on, and how widespread it may be (or not). Not to mention the many good solutions popping up. But if I may add, WE the users, are just that. How should we be doing the redesigns of something that is being sold retail? We are not the engineers, or the manufacturer, we are the users who should be spending our time enjoying driving our cars, not under them. That was for Brit cars of the 50's - 70's.
And even if we called, how would I know if others had called, if there was a common occurance that needed to be addressed, if I was not informed as such? Not saying Sam would not tell us, but it has happened in the past unless all involved physically knew what was going on. But by posting the problems here, we ALL can get a much faster grasp of what is going on, and how widespread it may be (or not). Not to mention the many good solutions popping up. But if I may add, WE the users, are just that. How should we be doing the redesigns of something that is being sold retail? We are not the engineers, or the manufacturer, we are the users who should be spending our time enjoying driving our cars, not under them. That was for Brit cars of the 50's - 70's.
| VpointVick | 06-13-2006 06:59 AM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]How? Geez, you can now even order a pizza LIVE and ONLINE in the computer game Everquest, while still playing it - an 8 year old in mainland China can access the Lourve in France from his classroom, yet Sam can't get the data :confused: This is not the age of 2 tin cans on a string. Everything is on the Internet now, and sadly, many stores (remember Egghead?) closed so as to be online only. The new Windows called Vista is going to have the Internet built into it practically. And honestly, which would help better for data gathering? Holding the phone to the bolt, or posting a pix here in the Subaru specific (and motorsports specific at that) forum? A pic or a sound clip is a lot better than "gee, my car made a kling, boing, zing" sound, what could that be? How could wrxkix have explained his solution if it weren't for the pics he could post here?
And even if we called, how would I know if others had called, if there was a common occurance that needed to be addressed, if I was not informed as such? Not saying Sam would not tell us, but it has happened in the past unless all involved physically knew what was going on. But by posting the problems here, we ALL can get a much faster grasp of what is going on, and how widespread it may be (or not). Not to mention the many good solutions popping up.[/QUOTE]
I didn't ask if you called him, I asked if you contacted him. I'm sure he has email.
You never contacted him did you?
I don't think that it was wrong to start this thread, I think it was wrong to start this thread in lieu of dealing directly with the manufacturer. Go on, open a thread, get an idea how many more people have a problem, but don't expect the manufacturer to come hunt down your thread and sift through 300 some posts filled with flames, misinformation, and random off-topic BS to find the few posts that actually contain the info regarding the problem. Send him an email and tell him about the problem.
Back in post #6 you said you "hope you get an answer back from those we need to hear from". If the person with the problem doesn't contact the person who can fix it it might take a while for things to get sorted, don't you think?
I've waded through 4 different threads on this issue, and I [i]think[/i] there were three cars with the rubbing issue, and four cars with five broken CA's, but that has taken quite a bit of sifting and I'm not sure of the numbers. Without you guys contacting him Sam can't possibly have any better idea of what is going on.
[QUOTE=z3coupe]But if I may add, WE the users, are just that. How should we be doing the redesigns of something that is being sold retail? We are not the engineers, or the manufacturer, we are the users who should be spending our time enjoying driving our cars, not under them. That was for Brit cars of the 50's - 70's.[/QUOTE]
A manufacturer or engineer can't possibly redesign a part if they don't have data. They need to know what's happening in the field to make an effective change.
The best way to get that data is through direct communication with the end user that is having the problem. If you want them to make a change you should contact them and let them know you have a problem.
And even if we called, how would I know if others had called, if there was a common occurance that needed to be addressed, if I was not informed as such? Not saying Sam would not tell us, but it has happened in the past unless all involved physically knew what was going on. But by posting the problems here, we ALL can get a much faster grasp of what is going on, and how widespread it may be (or not). Not to mention the many good solutions popping up.[/QUOTE]
I didn't ask if you called him, I asked if you contacted him. I'm sure he has email.
You never contacted him did you?
I don't think that it was wrong to start this thread, I think it was wrong to start this thread in lieu of dealing directly with the manufacturer. Go on, open a thread, get an idea how many more people have a problem, but don't expect the manufacturer to come hunt down your thread and sift through 300 some posts filled with flames, misinformation, and random off-topic BS to find the few posts that actually contain the info regarding the problem. Send him an email and tell him about the problem.
Back in post #6 you said you "hope you get an answer back from those we need to hear from". If the person with the problem doesn't contact the person who can fix it it might take a while for things to get sorted, don't you think?
I've waded through 4 different threads on this issue, and I [i]think[/i] there were three cars with the rubbing issue, and four cars with five broken CA's, but that has taken quite a bit of sifting and I'm not sure of the numbers. Without you guys contacting him Sam can't possibly have any better idea of what is going on.
[QUOTE=z3coupe]But if I may add, WE the users, are just that. How should we be doing the redesigns of something that is being sold retail? We are not the engineers, or the manufacturer, we are the users who should be spending our time enjoying driving our cars, not under them. That was for Brit cars of the 50's - 70's.[/QUOTE]
A manufacturer or engineer can't possibly redesign a part if they don't have data. They need to know what's happening in the field to make an effective change.
The best way to get that data is through direct communication with the end user that is having the problem. If you want them to make a change you should contact them and let them know you have a problem.
| RedTRex | 06-13-2006 07:11 AM |
Exactly - That is the purpose of this boards being (and many other boards as well), that is.....to meet and greet and discuss parts, people, and procedures (mods), whether good or bad.
[QUOTE=z3coupe]How? Geez, you can now even order a pizza LIVE and ONLINE in the computer game Everquest, while still playing it - an 8 year old in mainland China can access the Lourve in France from his classroom, yet Sam can't get the data :confused: This is not the age of 2 tin cans on a string. Everything is on the Internet now, and sadly, many stores (remember Egghead?) closed so as to be online only. The new Windows called Vista is going to have the Internet built into it practically. And honestly, which would help better for data gathering? Holding the phone to the bolt, or posting a pix here in the Subaru specific (and motorsports specific at that) forum? A pic or a sound clip is a lot better than "gee, my car made a kling, boing, zing" sound, what could that be? How could wrxkix have explained his solution if it weren't for the pics he could post here?
And even if we called, how would I know if others had called, if there was a common occurance that needed to be addressed, if I was not informed as such? Not saying Sam would not tell us, but it has happened in the past unless all involved physically knew what was going on. But by posting the problems here, we ALL can get a much faster grasp of what is going on, and how widespread it may be (or not). Not to mention the many good solutions popping up. But if I may add, WE the users, are just that. How should we be doing the redesigns of something that is being sold retail? We are not the engineers, or the manufacturer, we are the users who should be spending our time enjoying driving our cars, not under them. That was for Brit cars of the 50's - 70's.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=z3coupe]How? Geez, you can now even order a pizza LIVE and ONLINE in the computer game Everquest, while still playing it - an 8 year old in mainland China can access the Lourve in France from his classroom, yet Sam can't get the data :confused: This is not the age of 2 tin cans on a string. Everything is on the Internet now, and sadly, many stores (remember Egghead?) closed so as to be online only. The new Windows called Vista is going to have the Internet built into it practically. And honestly, which would help better for data gathering? Holding the phone to the bolt, or posting a pix here in the Subaru specific (and motorsports specific at that) forum? A pic or a sound clip is a lot better than "gee, my car made a kling, boing, zing" sound, what could that be? How could wrxkix have explained his solution if it weren't for the pics he could post here?
And even if we called, how would I know if others had called, if there was a common occurance that needed to be addressed, if I was not informed as such? Not saying Sam would not tell us, but it has happened in the past unless all involved physically knew what was going on. But by posting the problems here, we ALL can get a much faster grasp of what is going on, and how widespread it may be (or not). Not to mention the many good solutions popping up. But if I may add, WE the users, are just that. How should we be doing the redesigns of something that is being sold retail? We are not the engineers, or the manufacturer, we are the users who should be spending our time enjoying driving our cars, not under them. That was for Brit cars of the 50's - 70's.[/QUOTE]
| VpointVick | 06-13-2006 07:18 AM |
[QUOTE=RedTRex]Exactly - That is the purpose of this boards being (and many other boards as well), that is.....to meet and greet and discuss parts, people, and procedures (mods), whether good or bad.[/QUOTE]
See the post above yours.
I don't think that he shouldn't have started this thread. I think he should have contacted the manufacturer [i]first[/i], then started this thread.
See the post above yours.
I don't think that he shouldn't have started this thread. I think he should have contacted the manufacturer [i]first[/i], then started this thread.
| RedTRex | 06-13-2006 07:28 AM |
I don't agree ..... :)
| VpointVick | 06-13-2006 07:39 AM |
[QUOTE=RedTRex]I don't agree ..... :)[/QUOTE]
You think that manufacturers should have to continuously monitor who knows how many internet mssg boards listening for complaints about their products so that they may dispatch CS ninjas to fix problems before anybody calls the CS line? :confused:
That sounds terribly inefficient, and as someone in manufacturing, it's certainly not something I'm going to do with my product line. If somebody has a problem with one of my machines they need to send an email or pick up a phone.
You think that manufacturers should have to continuously monitor who knows how many internet mssg boards listening for complaints about their products so that they may dispatch CS ninjas to fix problems before anybody calls the CS line? :confused:
That sounds terribly inefficient, and as someone in manufacturing, it's certainly not something I'm going to do with my product line. If somebody has a problem with one of my machines they need to send an email or pick up a phone.
| leecea | 06-13-2006 08:16 AM |
I 100% agree that manufacturers, stores, etc need to be contacted directly if you expect any help from them with a product issue. Some do hang out on boards looking for useful comments or sensing the mood of their customer base, but we shouldn't expect it.
On the other hand, people can post whatever opinions they want and it is up to the mods and their peers to manage that. Look at all the "I broke 2nd gear... Subaru glass trannies suck" type threads that are immediately put down by a slew of responses about lack of driving ability! This board is not shy of slamming people who post baseless grievances, especially if they haven't done anything to help themselves. The fact that this thread is getting serious discussion shows that it was not just a whiner thread.
Another fact to consider is that message boards amplify everything to crazy levels and opinions can shift very quickly. The whole rush to buy this bar seemed to come from one or two threads describing huge benefits - I don't think there was a ton of research or analysis - just a few "trusted" people saying it made their car better and everyone rushed to order one. If you want to ride that kind of wave, you have to understand that a few "trusted" people with a couple of "bad" posts can kill it too.
On the other hand, people can post whatever opinions they want and it is up to the mods and their peers to manage that. Look at all the "I broke 2nd gear... Subaru glass trannies suck" type threads that are immediately put down by a slew of responses about lack of driving ability! This board is not shy of slamming people who post baseless grievances, especially if they haven't done anything to help themselves. The fact that this thread is getting serious discussion shows that it was not just a whiner thread.
Another fact to consider is that message boards amplify everything to crazy levels and opinions can shift very quickly. The whole rush to buy this bar seemed to come from one or two threads describing huge benefits - I don't think there was a ton of research or analysis - just a few "trusted" people saying it made their car better and everyone rushed to order one. If you want to ride that kind of wave, you have to understand that a few "trusted" people with a couple of "bad" posts can kill it too.
| RedTRex | 06-13-2006 08:31 AM |
No, just saying I don't think he/she needed to contact manufacture prior to posting here.
and, no don't think manufacture needs to monitor the boards...
[QUOTE=VpointVick]You think that manufacturers should have to continuously monitor who knows how many internet mssg boards listening for complaints about their products so that they may dispatch CS ninjas to fix problems before anybody calls the CS line? :confused:
That sounds terribly inefficient, and as someone in manufacturing, it's certainly not something I'm going to do with my product line. If somebody has a problem with one of my machines they need to send an email or pick up a phone.[/QUOTE]
and, no don't think manufacture needs to monitor the boards...
[QUOTE=VpointVick]You think that manufacturers should have to continuously monitor who knows how many internet mssg boards listening for complaints about their products so that they may dispatch CS ninjas to fix problems before anybody calls the CS line? :confused:
That sounds terribly inefficient, and as someone in manufacturing, it's certainly not something I'm going to do with my product line. If somebody has a problem with one of my machines they need to send an email or pick up a phone.[/QUOTE]
| wrxkix | 06-13-2006 08:39 AM |
VpointVick,
Since you have used the global term you guys, which would of course would include me, let me get you up to date on my specific situation. After the first break I emailed (i.e. contacted) Sam directly. This mean yes, I contacted the retail support party for said product.
In short, ( but I have every email exchanged in its entirety ) the response was, this is the first time I have heard of this problem, possibly a casting flaw. Which seemed reasonable at the time since the vender says there is no history of breakage. ( Note to self at this point is, if it happens again something else is going on )
After second break, which was less than a month later, I posted on the boards, first to see if anyone else was having the problem and second to get ideas on possible solutions. Seeing it was less than a month later, I made a judgement that Sam's data had not changed, and I may get more information here.
It appears I was correct. A couple other people were having the same problem as I, and it reinforced the idea that I need a different solution than just buying new control arms.
You are correct that I did not call or email Sam after the second break. However, I would argue that Sam read the posts and has the data, simply because he responded after my posts, mostly addressing internet etiquette. He could have as easily posted possible solutions or PMed me as to find out what I had in mind for a solution if he was interested and wanted to keep it offline until a solution was found.
If you follow my posts, I don't think I ever bad mouthed Sam directly or indirectly, or his product. I simply stated the facts as they were happening to me at the time. I even went so far as to say I do not regret buying the bar. If this is considered complaining and or bashing, then I need some help understanding the correct way to state facts.
I have resigned myself to fixing the problem myself. I hope my ideas can help someone else that may be having the same problem as I. Isn't that the idea of these forums. And if my idea doesn't work, I will go with something different.
Thanks for your feedback, but some of the points you have brought up are incorrect. Sam was contacted. He has the data. And I am not complaining, just stating the facts as I see them.
Sorry for the long post.
Since you have used the global term you guys, which would of course would include me, let me get you up to date on my specific situation. After the first break I emailed (i.e. contacted) Sam directly. This mean yes, I contacted the retail support party for said product.
In short, ( but I have every email exchanged in its entirety ) the response was, this is the first time I have heard of this problem, possibly a casting flaw. Which seemed reasonable at the time since the vender says there is no history of breakage. ( Note to self at this point is, if it happens again something else is going on )
After second break, which was less than a month later, I posted on the boards, first to see if anyone else was having the problem and second to get ideas on possible solutions. Seeing it was less than a month later, I made a judgement that Sam's data had not changed, and I may get more information here.
It appears I was correct. A couple other people were having the same problem as I, and it reinforced the idea that I need a different solution than just buying new control arms.
You are correct that I did not call or email Sam after the second break. However, I would argue that Sam read the posts and has the data, simply because he responded after my posts, mostly addressing internet etiquette. He could have as easily posted possible solutions or PMed me as to find out what I had in mind for a solution if he was interested and wanted to keep it offline until a solution was found.
If you follow my posts, I don't think I ever bad mouthed Sam directly or indirectly, or his product. I simply stated the facts as they were happening to me at the time. I even went so far as to say I do not regret buying the bar. If this is considered complaining and or bashing, then I need some help understanding the correct way to state facts.
I have resigned myself to fixing the problem myself. I hope my ideas can help someone else that may be having the same problem as I. Isn't that the idea of these forums. And if my idea doesn't work, I will go with something different.
Thanks for your feedback, but some of the points you have brought up are incorrect. Sam was contacted. He has the data. And I am not complaining, just stating the facts as I see them.
Sorry for the long post.
| VpointVick | 06-13-2006 08:48 AM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]VpointVick,
Since you have used the global term you guys, which would of course would include me, let me get you up to date on my specific situation. After the first break I emailed (i.e. contacted) Sam directly. This mean yes, I contacted the retail support party for said product.
In short, ( but I have every email exchanged in its entirety ) the response was, this is the first time I have heard of this problem, possibly a casting flaw. Which seemed reasonable at the time since the vender says there is no history of breakage. ( Note to self at this point is, if it happens again something else is going on )
After second break, which was less than a month later, I posted on the boards, first to see if anyone else was having the problem and second to get ideas on possible solutions. Seeing it was less than a month later, I made a judgement that Sam's data had not changed, and I may get more information here.
It appears I was correct. A couple other people were having the same problem as I, and it reinforced the idea that I need a different solution than just buying new control arms.
You are correct that I did not call or email Sam after the second break. However, I would argue that Sam read the posts and has the data, simply because he responded after my posts, mostly addressing internet etiquette. He could have as easily posted possible solutions or PMed me as to find out what I had in mind for a solution if he was interested and wanted to keep it offline until a solution was found.
If you follow my posts, I don't think I ever bad mouthed Sam directly or indirectly, or his product. I simply stated the facts as they were happening to me at the time. I even went so far as to say I do not regret buying the bar. If this is considered complaining and or bashing, then I need some help understanding the correct way to state facts.
I have resigned myself to fixing the problem myself. I hope my ideas can help someone else that may be having the same problem as I. Isn't that the idea of these forums. And if my idea doesn't work, I will go with something different.
Thanks for your feedback, but some of the points you have brought up are incorrect. Sam was contacted. He has the data. And I am not complaining, just stating the facts as I see them.
Sorry for the long post.[/QUOTE]
I didn't intend for you to feel included in my gripes. I think the way you've handled the situation should be a model for all the others that have had problems with this type of product.
Since you have used the global term you guys, which would of course would include me, let me get you up to date on my specific situation. After the first break I emailed (i.e. contacted) Sam directly. This mean yes, I contacted the retail support party for said product.
In short, ( but I have every email exchanged in its entirety ) the response was, this is the first time I have heard of this problem, possibly a casting flaw. Which seemed reasonable at the time since the vender says there is no history of breakage. ( Note to self at this point is, if it happens again something else is going on )
After second break, which was less than a month later, I posted on the boards, first to see if anyone else was having the problem and second to get ideas on possible solutions. Seeing it was less than a month later, I made a judgement that Sam's data had not changed, and I may get more information here.
It appears I was correct. A couple other people were having the same problem as I, and it reinforced the idea that I need a different solution than just buying new control arms.
You are correct that I did not call or email Sam after the second break. However, I would argue that Sam read the posts and has the data, simply because he responded after my posts, mostly addressing internet etiquette. He could have as easily posted possible solutions or PMed me as to find out what I had in mind for a solution if he was interested and wanted to keep it offline until a solution was found.
If you follow my posts, I don't think I ever bad mouthed Sam directly or indirectly, or his product. I simply stated the facts as they were happening to me at the time. I even went so far as to say I do not regret buying the bar. If this is considered complaining and or bashing, then I need some help understanding the correct way to state facts.
I have resigned myself to fixing the problem myself. I hope my ideas can help someone else that may be having the same problem as I. Isn't that the idea of these forums. And if my idea doesn't work, I will go with something different.
Thanks for your feedback, but some of the points you have brought up are incorrect. Sam was contacted. He has the data. And I am not complaining, just stating the facts as I see them.
Sorry for the long post.[/QUOTE]
I didn't intend for you to feel included in my gripes. I think the way you've handled the situation should be a model for all the others that have had problems with this type of product.
| Chiketkd | 06-13-2006 11:00 AM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]I didn't intend for you to feel included in my gripes. I think the way you've handled the situation should be a model for all the others that have had problems with this type of product.[/QUOTE]
+1 Steve has definitely been a gentleman throughout this entire situation. :)
+1 Steve has definitely been a gentleman throughout this entire situation. :)
| D_REX | 06-13-2006 12:24 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]See the post above yours.
I don't think that he shouldn't have started this thread. I think he should have contacted the manufacturer [i]first[/i], then started this thread.[/QUOTE]
It appears from the many responses to your posts from many different members that your opinion is not shared by the majority ;).
I don't think that he shouldn't have started this thread. I think he should have contacted the manufacturer [i]first[/i], then started this thread.[/QUOTE]
It appears from the many responses to your posts from many different members that your opinion is not shared by the majority ;).
| VpointVick | 06-13-2006 12:56 PM |
[QUOTE=D_REX]It appears from the many responses to your posts from many different members that your opinion is not shared by the majority ;).[/QUOTE]
I'm getting that impression.
Just because an idea is unpopular doesn't make it wrong. :p
I'm getting that impression.
Just because an idea is unpopular doesn't make it wrong. :p
| -OneWay- | 06-13-2006 01:33 PM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p36982b543234be10318c1475f4469ac4/ee8eb670.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I noticed your tires are rubbing against your sway bar like mine is.
braceing the endlink bracket like that may be a good idea.
But that extra heat from the tires rubbing against the bar is causing my tires to cook and lose grip while cornering.
I thought I had felt that happen at my last Auto-X, So yesterday to see if it was having an effect on my tires and if so when, I put my R-comps on and I got a friend to watch my front tires as I made some tight turns and did some off center slaloms thru an open parking lot.
The tires ARE hitting during tight turns and it didn't take long for enough heat to build up in the tires to cook them and cause them to lose grip. a couple turns in to an off center slalom or a single pivoting turn are all it took.
I did use a infrared heat gun and my friend witnessed smoke coming from the inside of the wheel well but I could tell just by touching the tires after a slip that there was way more heat in the inside edge of the tire rubbing.
This may not be an issue when I am on a road course and never see tight turns but during a Auto-x that loss of grip and extra heat in the tires can easily mean the difference between winning and losing.
From the pictures I could find of the WL bar, it doesn't appear to rub against the tires, for that reason alone the WL appears to me to be the way to go.
I'll have to do 1 more Auto-x on with the Strano bar, but then it is going to be removed from my car.... anyone want to buy a strano bar with less than 500 miles on it?
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p36982b543234be10318c1475f4469ac4/ee8eb670.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I noticed your tires are rubbing against your sway bar like mine is.
braceing the endlink bracket like that may be a good idea.
But that extra heat from the tires rubbing against the bar is causing my tires to cook and lose grip while cornering.
I thought I had felt that happen at my last Auto-X, So yesterday to see if it was having an effect on my tires and if so when, I put my R-comps on and I got a friend to watch my front tires as I made some tight turns and did some off center slaloms thru an open parking lot.
The tires ARE hitting during tight turns and it didn't take long for enough heat to build up in the tires to cook them and cause them to lose grip. a couple turns in to an off center slalom or a single pivoting turn are all it took.
I did use a infrared heat gun and my friend witnessed smoke coming from the inside of the wheel well but I could tell just by touching the tires after a slip that there was way more heat in the inside edge of the tire rubbing.
This may not be an issue when I am on a road course and never see tight turns but during a Auto-x that loss of grip and extra heat in the tires can easily mean the difference between winning and losing.
From the pictures I could find of the WL bar, it doesn't appear to rub against the tires, for that reason alone the WL appears to me to be the way to go.
I'll have to do 1 more Auto-x on with the Strano bar, but then it is going to be removed from my car.... anyone want to buy a strano bar with less than 500 miles on it?
| BlueSTI4Me | 06-13-2006 05:21 PM |
OneWay,
What model car is this installed on? WRX or STi? Are both sides hitting the bar? What size tires and wheels?
Thanks for any information you provide.
Blue
What model car is this installed on? WRX or STi? Are both sides hitting the bar? What size tires and wheels?
Thanks for any information you provide.
Blue
| BlueSTI4Me | 06-13-2006 05:25 PM |
[QUOTE=leecea]I 100% agree that manufacturers, stores, etc need to be contacted directly if you expect any help from them with a product issue. Some do hang out on boards looking for useful comments or sensing the mood of their customer base, but we shouldn't expect it.
On the other hand, people can post whatever opinions they want and it is up to the mods and their peers to manage that. Look at all the "I broke 2nd gear... Subaru glass trannies suck" type threads that are immediately put down by a slew of responses about lack of driving ability! This board is not shy of slamming people who post baseless grievances, especially if they haven't done anything to help themselves. The fact that this thread is getting serious discussion shows that it was not just a whiner thread.
Another fact to consider is that message boards amplify everything to crazy levels and opinions can shift very quickly. The whole rush to buy this bar seemed to come from one or two threads describing huge benefits - I don't think there was a ton of research or analysis - just a few "trusted" people saying it made their car better and everyone rushed to order one. If you want to ride that kind of wave, you have to understand that a few "trusted" people with a couple of "bad" posts can kill it too.[/QUOTE]
leecea makes really good points here^.
Can we post some facts about the vehicles with issues? IE.
Year and model
Wheel and tire size (and is the wheel/tire a plus size over stock)
Specific issue
Thanks,
Blue
On the other hand, people can post whatever opinions they want and it is up to the mods and their peers to manage that. Look at all the "I broke 2nd gear... Subaru glass trannies suck" type threads that are immediately put down by a slew of responses about lack of driving ability! This board is not shy of slamming people who post baseless grievances, especially if they haven't done anything to help themselves. The fact that this thread is getting serious discussion shows that it was not just a whiner thread.
Another fact to consider is that message boards amplify everything to crazy levels and opinions can shift very quickly. The whole rush to buy this bar seemed to come from one or two threads describing huge benefits - I don't think there was a ton of research or analysis - just a few "trusted" people saying it made their car better and everyone rushed to order one. If you want to ride that kind of wave, you have to understand that a few "trusted" people with a couple of "bad" posts can kill it too.[/QUOTE]
leecea makes really good points here^.
Can we post some facts about the vehicles with issues? IE.
Year and model
Wheel and tire size (and is the wheel/tire a plus size over stock)
Specific issue
Thanks,
Blue
| RedTRex | 06-13-2006 05:37 PM |
Gotta love it, this thread has been an awesome read.:)
| z3coupe | 06-13-2006 05:50 PM |
[QUOTE=BlueSTI4Me]leecea makes really good points here^.
Can we post some facts about the vehicles with issues? IE.
Year and model
Wheel and tire size (and is the wheel/tire a plus size over stock)
Specific issue
Thanks,
Blue[/QUOTE]I would suggest one step further, and provide the "Build Date" of the car instead of just the model year. For in reference to my original bolt issue, the excuse was that there may have been variances on the assembly line during production runs. This would maybe help put that to rest as well? I don't know mine of the top of my head, but I do know it was a late 04 production run.
Can we post some facts about the vehicles with issues? IE.
Year and model
Wheel and tire size (and is the wheel/tire a plus size over stock)
Specific issue
Thanks,
Blue[/QUOTE]I would suggest one step further, and provide the "Build Date" of the car instead of just the model year. For in reference to my original bolt issue, the excuse was that there may have been variances on the assembly line during production runs. This would maybe help put that to rest as well? I don't know mine of the top of my head, but I do know it was a late 04 production run.
| wrxkix | 06-13-2006 06:58 PM |
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]I noticed your tires are rubbing against your sway bar like mine is.[/QUOTE]
Good eye catching that in the photo. Actually, I think the rubbing was caused after the control arm break, in which the bar became disconnected from one side and shifted. Or it could have been after I disconnected both sides. Not really sure when the shift occured. I did not notice any rubbing issues before the break.
When I replaced the control arm and reattached the bar, I noticed it had shifted closer to the passenger side, thus resulting in the rubbing. After recentering the bar it looks like everything is OK. I will be checking this closely at the next autox.
Keep in mind I am running the max offset in DS on the rims and a 245/45 -17 v710 tire. I don't know what offset and size tire you are running, but I could see where a wider tire could rub the bar at full lock.
Good eye catching that in the photo. Actually, I think the rubbing was caused after the control arm break, in which the bar became disconnected from one side and shifted. Or it could have been after I disconnected both sides. Not really sure when the shift occured. I did not notice any rubbing issues before the break.
When I replaced the control arm and reattached the bar, I noticed it had shifted closer to the passenger side, thus resulting in the rubbing. After recentering the bar it looks like everything is OK. I will be checking this closely at the next autox.
Keep in mind I am running the max offset in DS on the rims and a 245/45 -17 v710 tire. I don't know what offset and size tire you are running, but I could see where a wider tire could rub the bar at full lock.
| ULLLOSE | 06-13-2006 10:54 PM |
Swaybar related control arm failures are nothing new in autox.... Lots of times we put swaybars on that are more than twice as stiff as stock. Miata's and RX7tt have the mounts crack and fail. A few RX8 guys with big bars have had end links break. MR2s have the tabs tear off the arms. When you but bigger than stock bars with very sticky tires something will give. If the tires are hitting the bar you have a even bigger chance for a failure.
I am surprised to see the Addco bar includes what looks like a set of Ghetto Fbody end links. It would not take much work to come up with a better solution than 4"s of poly and one long bolt.
Power Grid INC makes a lot of custom and OE swaybar endlinks, including mono ball replacements for Fbody style links.... A set of those with the Addco bar might be the best of both worlds.
I am surprised to see the Addco bar includes what looks like a set of Ghetto Fbody end links. It would not take much work to come up with a better solution than 4"s of poly and one long bolt.
Power Grid INC makes a lot of custom and OE swaybar endlinks, including mono ball replacements for Fbody style links.... A set of those with the Addco bar might be the best of both worlds.
| ericdc | 06-14-2006 09:55 AM |
Although I have tried to figure this out I am not clear on the Whiteline bar specifically for an 05 STi. Can anyone recommend a source and/or give a confirmed to be correct part number?
| VpointVick | 06-14-2006 10:01 AM |
[QUOTE=ericdc]Although I have tried to figure this out I am not clear on the Whiteline bar specifically for an 05 STi. Can anyone recommend a source and/or give a confirmed to be correct part number?[/QUOTE]
BSF36XXZ
Turn In Concepts has them among many others.
BSF36XXZ
Turn In Concepts has them among many others.
| crystalhelix | 06-14-2006 10:06 AM |
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]
The tires ARE hitting during tight turns and it didn't take long for enough heat to build up in the tires to cook them and cause them to lose grip. a couple turns in to an off center slalom or a single pivoting turn are all it took.
[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously saying some rubbing on the inside of your tire caused the rest of the entire tire to heat up and you lost grip? :lol: I am sorry but that makes no sense to me, I would just stay away from trying to drive an autocross course at full lock. :rolleyes:
The tires ARE hitting during tight turns and it didn't take long for enough heat to build up in the tires to cook them and cause them to lose grip. a couple turns in to an off center slalom or a single pivoting turn are all it took.
[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously saying some rubbing on the inside of your tire caused the rest of the entire tire to heat up and you lost grip? :lol: I am sorry but that makes no sense to me, I would just stay away from trying to drive an autocross course at full lock. :rolleyes:
| Turn in Concepts | 06-14-2006 10:06 AM |
Actually, we are out of stock as well as most other vendors out there. This bar has been a huge seller this year. The US distributor of their products is not expecting anymore in until early August.
| silentbob343 | 06-15-2006 12:14 AM |
nevermind
| KC | 06-15-2006 07:54 AM |
[QUOTE=ULLLOSE]Swaybar related control arm failures are nothing new in autox.... *snip*[/QUOTE]
Shut it n00b. You haven't been here long... so what do you know? :D :devil:
--kC
Shut it n00b. You haven't been here long... so what do you know? :D :devil:
--kC
| Impreza01 | 06-15-2006 10:52 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]Shut it n00b. You haven't been here long... so what do you know? :D :devil:
--kC[/QUOTE]
Man, you're on a roll (saw your post in the Sheehan defamation thread) :lol:
--kC[/QUOTE]
Man, you're on a roll (saw your post in the Sheehan defamation thread) :lol:
| Draken | 06-15-2006 10:58 AM |
You're all n00bs!
| ULLLOSE | 06-15-2006 11:56 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]Shut it n00b. You haven't been here long... so what do you know? :D :devil:
--kC[/QUOTE]
I know if you win a supplemental class at natls you get no respect.... Sucker. :lol:
--kC[/QUOTE]
I know if you win a supplemental class at natls you get no respect.... Sucker. :lol:
| RedTRex | 06-15-2006 12:22 PM |
and he's a wise guy too....... get 'em KC
| RedTRex | 06-15-2006 12:23 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]You're all n00bs![/QUOTE]
LOL...
LOL...
| KC | 06-15-2006 12:25 PM |
[QUOTE=ULLLOSE]I know if you win a supplemental class at natls you get no respect.... Sucker. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Oooh ouch. :furious:
School zone, 2pm, from a roll. Be there.
--kC
Oooh ouch. :furious:
School zone, 2pm, from a roll. Be there.
--kC
| Draken | 06-15-2006 12:37 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Oooh ouch. :furious:
School zone, 2pm, from a roll. Be there.
--kC[/QUOTE]
I heard Old Man River gets off the line pretty quick in his Rascal.
[img]http://www.aging-parents-and-elder-care.com/Images/Products/DS108_175adj.gif[/img]
School zone, 2pm, from a roll. Be there.
--kC[/QUOTE]
I heard Old Man River gets off the line pretty quick in his Rascal.
[img]http://www.aging-parents-and-elder-care.com/Images/Products/DS108_175adj.gif[/img]
| ULLLOSE | 06-15-2006 12:39 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]Oooh ouch. :furious:
School zone, 2pm, from a roll. Be there.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Don't get in a hurry.... Your second beating will come in a few months. ;)
School zone, 2pm, from a roll. Be there.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Don't get in a hurry.... Your second beating will come in a few months. ;)
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