| Draken | 06-02-2006 05:49 PM |
I agree that there will be some lateral force being applied with the stock end links. If there wasn't, Subaru could have made that mounting tab paper thin. It's simple mechanics. Most of the force is being applied either up or down in relating to the tab, with some force being pulled to the side, due to the side to side displacement of the two joints. From my recollection, there is about 1/2-3/4 inch difference in the "inside edge" of the tab and the "outside edge" of the bar.
One other thing of note, as shown in the first of the two Strano photos. Instead of distributing the force at the center point of the mounting tab, where the original hole is located, you'll notice the bar's force is acting on the angle steel piece "above" the center of the tab. So you also have a moment working in that direction as well. Essentially, all forces being applied are causing that tab to twist.
Chris H.
One other thing of note, as shown in the first of the two Strano photos. Instead of distributing the force at the center point of the mounting tab, where the original hole is located, you'll notice the bar's force is acting on the angle steel piece "above" the center of the tab. So you also have a moment working in that direction as well. Essentially, all forces being applied are causing that tab to twist.
Chris H.
| Impreza01 | 06-02-2006 08:15 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]Dude in that thread just confirmed that he was told it was an aluminum CA that broke on the 02 WRX. Probably an STi replacement part.[/QUOTE]
5 aluminum arms... ouch... :(
5 aluminum arms... ouch... :(
| kursplat | 06-03-2006 08:15 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]I�ve always been curious why this hokey ass end link design was used. More curious, why not orient the �flattened� part of the bar 90-degrees compared to how it is. Then use a simple double ball-socket end link, adjustable for proper preloading?
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
well i'll be puting the stock bar back in for now. hopefully a real fix can be created, other wise i'll be lookin at a new bar. one possible idea might be to install [URL=http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&catalogIdentifier=Jegs_Direct&categoryId=21161&parentCategoryId=10073]HEIM joints[/URL] instead. that would allow the bar to travel it's natural arch at the control arm tab as the suspension travels. problem i see with this is the lateral distance from the tab to the end of the bar. the bolt would have to be 2.5-3in long, quite a lever. maybe able to fab some sort of "girdle" to support the bolt on both sides.
guess while i'm replacing the stock one i'll see what i can come up with
Chris H.[/QUOTE]
well i'll be puting the stock bar back in for now. hopefully a real fix can be created, other wise i'll be lookin at a new bar. one possible idea might be to install [URL=http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&catalogIdentifier=Jegs_Direct&categoryId=21161&parentCategoryId=10073]HEIM joints[/URL] instead. that would allow the bar to travel it's natural arch at the control arm tab as the suspension travels. problem i see with this is the lateral distance from the tab to the end of the bar. the bolt would have to be 2.5-3in long, quite a lever. maybe able to fab some sort of "girdle" to support the bolt on both sides.
guess while i'm replacing the stock one i'll see what i can come up with
| AndrewSS | 06-04-2006 01:33 AM |
Have any of you guys noticed that over time the uretane bushings compress pretty noticably... when i first did the bar it was good and tight at about 3-4 threads showing, how its like 8-10 threads showing.
| silver arrow | 06-04-2006 10:10 AM |
^^^^^Ditto
| AndrewSS | 06-04-2006 06:39 PM |
do you think it would be a good idea to replace them eventually as they are compressing pretty noticably, its so much compression that while the car is on the ground the bar is getting pretty damn close to the bracket that is connected to the control arm.
| Draken | 06-04-2006 06:53 PM |
Personally, I had an endlink setup using that same style of threaded rod with bushings on a CRX...Addco end links in fact, many years ago. The bushings compressed a lot after 6 months, and at about 2 years were totally shot. The bushings were hard as a rock, split, and everything was loose and rattly.
This was on a car that saw 10,000 miles, a few autocrosses, and a couple track days, with typical SoCal weather.
This was on a car that saw 10,000 miles, a few autocrosses, and a couple track days, with typical SoCal weather.
| Aaron B | 06-07-2006 12:33 PM |
[url]http://www.powergridinc.com/swaybar.asp[/url]
Noticed an ad for these in the last GRM. Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
All you'd need is one adapter for the mount on the bar and you should be able to adapt right over to a stock/stock style end link. That or pick up some correctly sized rod ends and make your own adjustable ones.
Noticed an ad for these in the last GRM. Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
All you'd need is one adapter for the mount on the bar and you should be able to adapt right over to a stock/stock style end link. That or pick up some correctly sized rod ends and make your own adjustable ones.
| DrBiggly | 06-07-2006 01:00 PM |
Aaron, good find! :)
-Biggly
-Biggly
| kursplat | 06-07-2006 02:58 PM |
well just got done reinstalling the stock bar in the car :mad:. in a couple weeks i'll pick up some heim joints and sart to fab up something. will probably call [URL=http://www.powergridinc.com/swaybar.asp]powergrid[/URL] and see what they think/come up with. i like the powergrid adapter for the sway bar end. wouldn't be too hard to make something like that. it does (wishfull thinking ?) appear that removing the side load from the CA tab should help keep it from snaping off. oh well, the joys of screwing with your car :rolleyes:
| Sideshowbob | 06-07-2006 03:22 PM |
[QUOTE=Aaron B][url]http://www.powergridinc.com/swaybar.asp[/url]
Noticed an ad for these in the last GRM. Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
All you'd need is one adapter for the mount on the bar and you should be able to adapt right over to a stock/stock style end link. That or pick up some correctly sized rod ends and make your own adjustable ones.[/QUOTE]
I had similarly designed endlinks on my car (not made by power grid thou) and the end of one of the eye-loops snapped like a twig (with a 19mm front bar).
Noticed an ad for these in the last GRM. Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
All you'd need is one adapter for the mount on the bar and you should be able to adapt right over to a stock/stock style end link. That or pick up some correctly sized rod ends and make your own adjustable ones.[/QUOTE]
I had similarly designed endlinks on my car (not made by power grid thou) and the end of one of the eye-loops snapped like a twig (with a 19mm front bar).
| subieworx | 06-07-2006 03:35 PM |
That has more to do with the quality of the rod end than the bar size. Race car suspensions are completely held together with rod ends like that, so it's not an issue. If you want something that is going to work very well and be quiet look into FK or Aurora bearings.
| afpdl | 06-07-2006 09:54 PM |
Instead of comming up with a completely new endlink, is there any possiblitly of using the stock endlinks and then sourcing an adapter like the ones power grid is using to connect the sway to the stock endlink? I cant tell if there is room for the stock endlink with the longer bar but it looking at the pick it seems like a possibility.
And if it does work is should be the most cost effective solution.
And if it does work is should be the most cost effective solution.
| WL Flatout | 06-08-2006 12:31 AM |
Hi guys,
Don't want to be too forward here but we did create our own range of spherical bearing swaybar links precisely for this sort of function :o
The component options provide a lot of scope for adapting various types of link and we do have a stock replacement kit for the front of the STi anyway.
For what its worth, we would recommend against any mounting method that laminates or sandwiches the alloy stock link tang against or between steel. Unless it triangulates with a solid connection to the control arm itself, it simply acts as a more rigid lever to flex the alloy tang at the root where it meets the control arm. That is, it is more likely to force the alloy to flex repeatedly in the one spot which is not very healthy for alloy components. Just think of an airplane with the actual wing so rigid that the inevitable flex is confined to the wing root where it meets the fuselage.
Cheers
Jim
Whiteline
PS. Copy of bulletin detailing heavy duty spherical link program [url]http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/113_links.pdf[/url]
Don't want to be too forward here but we did create our own range of spherical bearing swaybar links precisely for this sort of function :o
The component options provide a lot of scope for adapting various types of link and we do have a stock replacement kit for the front of the STi anyway.
For what its worth, we would recommend against any mounting method that laminates or sandwiches the alloy stock link tang against or between steel. Unless it triangulates with a solid connection to the control arm itself, it simply acts as a more rigid lever to flex the alloy tang at the root where it meets the control arm. That is, it is more likely to force the alloy to flex repeatedly in the one spot which is not very healthy for alloy components. Just think of an airplane with the actual wing so rigid that the inevitable flex is confined to the wing root where it meets the fuselage.
Cheers
Jim
Whiteline
PS. Copy of bulletin detailing heavy duty spherical link program [url]http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/113_links.pdf[/url]
| wrxkix | 06-08-2006 07:47 AM |
I agree with you Jim about triangulating a brace across the control arm. I am making a bracket that uses the triangulation method to distribute the load at the mounting point and across the control arm. My opinion is the mounting tab is a weak point on the control arm and needs to addressed with this bar for my intended application. Thanks for the feedback.
| subieworx | 06-08-2006 08:05 AM |
Those links are definitely a good idea, but will not work in this case due to the bar design. Special links would have to be created.
| z3coupe | 06-08-2006 09:11 AM |
[QUOTE=sstrano]If you were to stumble on this thread or any other in which the title was "possible problem", would you feel very good about the product? I doubt it.
I'm not going to have Addco retool a bar for a small minority of cars, especially when the bar fit the 2005 test car. And that we took the time and effort to supply such a part in the first place.
In short, there aren't going to be any forthcoming changes.[/QUOTE]I would hope that now that there have been a few cases of the lower control arm breaking, a bit more investigation into the end links and the stresses they cause might be a thought. Now it is no longer just a case of slight fittiment issues, but an actual larger problem - though it appears to only happen to those with aluminum control arms and R compound tires (wich is anyone in stock classes).[QUOTE=CamaroFS34][B]Well, it wasn't supposed to be directly compared to the fitment issues, just that there was a story behind the cracking swaybar mounts similar to what is evidently going on here [/B] (person whose car the bar was "tested" on didn't experience the problems that subsequent people found), but in my annoyance at someone saying they didn't think they were pointing fingers even though they were, I didn't think about the fact that most people here would not know the connection. :(
If there is only one test subject, then I don't think anyone could have known there could be an issue.
Karen[/QUOTE]So there have been other cars with this problem as well?
I'm not going to have Addco retool a bar for a small minority of cars, especially when the bar fit the 2005 test car. And that we took the time and effort to supply such a part in the first place.
In short, there aren't going to be any forthcoming changes.[/QUOTE]I would hope that now that there have been a few cases of the lower control arm breaking, a bit more investigation into the end links and the stresses they cause might be a thought. Now it is no longer just a case of slight fittiment issues, but an actual larger problem - though it appears to only happen to those with aluminum control arms and R compound tires (wich is anyone in stock classes).[QUOTE=CamaroFS34][B]Well, it wasn't supposed to be directly compared to the fitment issues, just that there was a story behind the cracking swaybar mounts similar to what is evidently going on here [/B] (person whose car the bar was "tested" on didn't experience the problems that subsequent people found), but in my annoyance at someone saying they didn't think they were pointing fingers even though they were, I didn't think about the fact that most people here would not know the connection. :(
If there is only one test subject, then I don't think anyone could have known there could be an issue.
Karen[/QUOTE]So there have been other cars with this problem as well?
| silentbob343 | 06-08-2006 10:37 AM |
[QUOTE=subieworx]Those links are definitely a good idea, but will not work in this case due to the bar design. Special links would have to be created.[/QUOTE]
something like this
[url]http://www.powergridinc.com/swaybar.asp[/url]
something like this
[url]http://www.powergridinc.com/swaybar.asp[/url]
| subieworx | 06-08-2006 10:43 AM |
It needs to be more like this. The one on the left is a stock MR2 spyder endlink. The two on the right are custom made sourcing parts from mcmaster.com and autozone. They cost about 25/set to make.
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/758000-758999/758816_59_full.jpg[/img]
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/758000-758999/758816_59_full.jpg[/img]
| Aaron B | 06-08-2006 12:03 PM |
And I was just thinking about an idea like that this morning. Figured it HAD to be cheaper than having PowerGrid come up with something
| VpointVick | 06-08-2006 12:08 PM |
[QUOTE=subieworx]It needs to be more like this. The one on the left is a stock MR2 spyder endlink. The two on the right are custom made sourcing parts from mcmaster.com and autozone. They cost about 25/set to make.
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/758000-758999/758816_59_full.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
When using rod ends like this, I've had problems with the washers on either side of the ball hitting the rod end body before the balls limits are reached. That tends to break stuff. I no longer use standard flat washers in that location.
SAE washers are better, since their OD is smaller, but I still check clearances first.
Just an FYI. :)
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/758000-758999/758816_59_full.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
When using rod ends like this, I've had problems with the washers on either side of the ball hitting the rod end body before the balls limits are reached. That tends to break stuff. I no longer use standard flat washers in that location.
SAE washers are better, since their OD is smaller, but I still check clearances first.
Just an FYI. :)
| subieworx | 06-08-2006 12:16 PM |
[QUOTE=VpointVick]When using rod ends like this, I've had problems with the washers on either side of the ball hitting the rod end body before the balls limits are reached. That tends to break stuff. I no longer use standard flat washers in that location.
SAE washers are better, since their OD is smaller, but I still check clearances first.
Just an FYI. :)[/QUOTE]
I agree with you completly. I didn't say these were well designed links, just fitting for the application. I would get studded rod ends instead and not even worry about having a bolt to mes with.
SAE washers are better, since their OD is smaller, but I still check clearances first.
Just an FYI. :)[/QUOTE]
I agree with you completly. I didn't say these were well designed links, just fitting for the application. I would get studded rod ends instead and not even worry about having a bolt to mes with.
| z3coupe | 06-08-2006 04:25 PM |
Those look like they would be the perfect ticket to solve the problem. But before anyone would go out and buy them, I strongly suggest some R&D or testing be done first. It appears that no one really knows, or understands, the different kinds of stresses put on the STi lower control arm tab when using a different link system than it was originally designed for. Just as an example, is the Strano bar longer or shorter (tab to tab) than the stock bar? Will even these links be vertically lined up, and create the same twisting or pressure as what the stock bar would have? Or would yet another new factor be introduced to cause more probelms?
Yes, I believe there is still a chance to get this bar "right", but this time I think more development and testing is in order than on just one car. But it sure is darn nice to see that the good ol' American ingenuity is still alive and kicking seeing as how everything these days is outsourced elsewhere :(
Yes, I believe there is still a chance to get this bar "right", but this time I think more development and testing is in order than on just one car. But it sure is darn nice to see that the good ol' American ingenuity is still alive and kicking seeing as how everything these days is outsourced elsewhere :(
| subieworx | 06-08-2006 04:31 PM |
Actually I know those won't work because the strano bar is shorter end to end than a stock designed one. I was just giving exacmples.
| AndrewSS | 06-08-2006 04:32 PM |
Well i was just looking at my bar while it was on the ground, the bushings are worn down a lot, they have compressed a lot since they were new, its so much that the endlink bracket and bar appear to make contact on occasion, I am going to see if I can loosen the nut some to get them to be "longer" but I dunno if that will help enough, this endlink design might need new uretane bushings every 6months or so...
| WRXedUSA | 06-08-2006 05:23 PM |
Hmmm. Thanks for all the input, especially from Andrew and Draken.
I think my swaybar setup will be the WL 27-29 w/stock endlinks.
I think my swaybar setup will be the WL 27-29 w/stock endlinks.
| Sideshowbob | 06-08-2006 10:28 PM |
I have Noltec front endlinks, they are awesome IMO.
| BlueSTI4Me | 06-08-2006 10:34 PM |
[QUOTE=BeantownWRX]I have Noltec front endlinks, they are awesome IMO.[/QUOTE]
Noltecs and what bar?
Noltecs and what bar?
| WL Flatout | 06-08-2006 10:35 PM |
G'day,
Just some suggestions for anyone that is interesting doing some further reaserch and development of their swaybars here. It would be worth having the following camparative data between yours and OEM swaybars:
1. Effective swaybar width.
i.e; the distance between the centres of the link holes for vertical hole swaybars, or the distance between the outside faces for OEM swaybar
2. Effective swaybar length.
i.e; the perpendicular distance between the centre of the link hole to the centre of the rotational axis (middle of the bush)
3. Effective installed swaybar angle.
i.e: when viewed from the side, it is the angle between the rotational axis (middle of the bush) to the link attachment point on the end of the swaybar
Knowing these fundemantal measurements should make it clear do see the effective installation differences between your and OEM swaybars and their effect on the link installation/position/angle.
Hope this is of some help.
Cheers,
Wojtek.
Whiteline Automotive
Just some suggestions for anyone that is interesting doing some further reaserch and development of their swaybars here. It would be worth having the following camparative data between yours and OEM swaybars:
1. Effective swaybar width.
i.e; the distance between the centres of the link holes for vertical hole swaybars, or the distance between the outside faces for OEM swaybar
2. Effective swaybar length.
i.e; the perpendicular distance between the centre of the link hole to the centre of the rotational axis (middle of the bush)
3. Effective installed swaybar angle.
i.e: when viewed from the side, it is the angle between the rotational axis (middle of the bush) to the link attachment point on the end of the swaybar
Knowing these fundemantal measurements should make it clear do see the effective installation differences between your and OEM swaybars and their effect on the link installation/position/angle.
Hope this is of some help.
Cheers,
Wojtek.
Whiteline Automotive
| silentbob343 | 06-09-2006 12:35 AM |
[QUOTE=AndrewSS]Well i was just looking at my bar while it was on the ground, the bushings are worn down a lot, they have compressed a lot since they were new, its so much that the endlink bracket and bar appear to make contact on occasion, I am going to see if I can loosen the nut some to get them to be "longer" but I dunno if that will help enough, this endlink design might need new uretane bushings every 6months or so...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have poly bushings up front on my slowtege and they need to be replaced every so often. You purchase ES, Energy Suspension, replacements at most any autoparts stores. Of course it's also a PITA it is to replace them or at least on my car.
Yeah, I have poly bushings up front on my slowtege and they need to be replaced every so often. You purchase ES, Energy Suspension, replacements at most any autoparts stores. Of course it's also a PITA it is to replace them or at least on my car.
| WRXedUSA | 06-09-2006 11:07 AM |
[QUOTE=BeantownWRX]I have Noltec front endlinks, they are awesome IMO.[/QUOTE]
What bar? Tittywop? Work on a STi?
Enquiring minds want to know! :)
What bar? Tittywop? Work on a STi?
Enquiring minds want to know! :)
| Sideshowbob | 06-09-2006 11:33 AM |
Noltec's on a Whiteline 22mm wagon bar. I would bet my anal virginity they would work fine on the 27-29 bar too.
| WRXedUSA | 06-09-2006 07:40 PM |
[QUOTE=BeantownWRX]Noltec's on a Whiteline 22mm wagon bar. I would bet my anal virginity they would work fine on the 27-29 bar too.[/QUOTE]
Aye aye. Will do!
:disco:
Aye aye. Will do!
:disco:
| wrxkix | 06-09-2006 09:07 PM |
OK,
This is my first attempt at fixing the swaybar tabs from breaking on my control arms. Please excuse that I have not painted these mockups yet, but you will get the general idea. I welcome any comments and suggestions. I have to give thanks to Kevin, our shop foreman, for taking my idea and fabbing something up.
Broken arm
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pfc2a47a225e1c56e07741905c775276c/eec0c37e.jpg[/IMG]
Closeup broken arm
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pb87b28deb8e117e45c9c0f43a2399f13/eec0c25e.jpg[/IMG]
New arm with modified mount
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p92949c7d96b3b62b0f75fae66f220b38/ee95b761.jpg[/IMG]
Closeup top
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p41453dd46c7bc53456ad70f58f6cb61d/ee95b6bb.jpg[/IMG]
Closeup top opposite side
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p3a68ae4e397fdaa2596d36359c5baf6a/ee95b61d.jpg[/IMG]
Radius side mount
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pe6fd6fca4999cde3b9b3463963de2e52/ee95b58c.jpg[/IMG]
Side view
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p6b8d584f2e8936374eb5cbf5549841ec/ee95b55e.jpg[/IMG]
We radiused the side to keep the washers from contacting. And we rolled the metal ( see side view ) to spread the contact area.
Let me know what you think.
Steve
This is my first attempt at fixing the swaybar tabs from breaking on my control arms. Please excuse that I have not painted these mockups yet, but you will get the general idea. I welcome any comments and suggestions. I have to give thanks to Kevin, our shop foreman, for taking my idea and fabbing something up.
Broken arm
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pfc2a47a225e1c56e07741905c775276c/eec0c37e.jpg[/IMG]
Closeup broken arm
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pb87b28deb8e117e45c9c0f43a2399f13/eec0c25e.jpg[/IMG]
New arm with modified mount
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p92949c7d96b3b62b0f75fae66f220b38/ee95b761.jpg[/IMG]
Closeup top
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p41453dd46c7bc53456ad70f58f6cb61d/ee95b6bb.jpg[/IMG]
Closeup top opposite side
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p3a68ae4e397fdaa2596d36359c5baf6a/ee95b61d.jpg[/IMG]
Radius side mount
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/pe6fd6fca4999cde3b9b3463963de2e52/ee95b58c.jpg[/IMG]
Side view
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p6b8d584f2e8936374eb5cbf5549841ec/ee95b55e.jpg[/IMG]
We radiused the side to keep the washers from contacting. And we rolled the metal ( see side view ) to spread the contact area.
Let me know what you think.
Steve
| BlueSTI4Me | 06-09-2006 09:37 PM |
Steve,
Looks like it will work. At first I was like they drilled the control arm!!!!!
But then I took my glasses off.....been accused of not seeing the hole.
You gonna make extra tabs if this works? You might find tab customers!
Darryl
Looks like it will work. At first I was like they drilled the control arm!!!!!
But then I took my glasses off.....been accused of not seeing the hole.
You gonna make extra tabs if this works? You might find tab customers!
Darryl
| AndrewSS | 06-09-2006 10:22 PM |
hrmmm, thats pretty sweet, I bet that would help some.... pretty cool! I would be interested in a custom tab if you guys made some more and you got good results with them... please keep us posted!
| wrxkix | 06-09-2006 10:58 PM |
Thanks for the feedback.
I am also going to change the endlink bushings as well. After I test this out next week and at the ProSolo in DC I will report back on the results. If it proves successful, I will ask Kevin if he would be willing to fab some tabs up since we now have a templete to go from. He could possibly modify the part if it was sent him then mail it back. He has access to my left and right broken control arms that works well for a jig.
Anyway, this is the most cost effective answer I could come up with. Looking at it, I feel very good that it will be strong enough to hold up to the R-comps.
Darryl, you are exactly right, we did not modify the control arm in anyway. The hole is already present as you can see in broken control arm pics. We specifically made sure it would be DS and AS legal. Anyone see any issues running this in stock class?
My wife has a great idea, do you think I could sell enough tabs to recoup the $500 in broken control arms? :lol:
I am also going to change the endlink bushings as well. After I test this out next week and at the ProSolo in DC I will report back on the results. If it proves successful, I will ask Kevin if he would be willing to fab some tabs up since we now have a templete to go from. He could possibly modify the part if it was sent him then mail it back. He has access to my left and right broken control arms that works well for a jig.
Anyway, this is the most cost effective answer I could come up with. Looking at it, I feel very good that it will be strong enough to hold up to the R-comps.
Darryl, you are exactly right, we did not modify the control arm in anyway. The hole is already present as you can see in broken control arm pics. We specifically made sure it would be DS and AS legal. Anyone see any issues running this in stock class?
My wife has a great idea, do you think I could sell enough tabs to recoup the $500 in broken control arms? :lol:
| kursplat | 06-10-2006 12:17 AM |
looks good. similar to what i was thinking. hard to tell from the pics, did you move the mounting over far enough to straighten out the endlink?
please post some installed pic too and good luck at the ProSolo
please post some installed pic too and good luck at the ProSolo
| wrxkix | 06-10-2006 08:29 AM |
Will do on the installation pics. Hopefully I will have them Sunday. This setup leaves the mounting location just as it came from Strano. However, it does reinforce the mount significantly. When the suspension is loaded, the endlink is pretty much straight on my application.
The idea on radiusing the mount is to allow for more travel of the endlink side to side during loading and unloading of the suspension. I noticed a little contact with the washers for the bushings and the mount. It appears that by radiusing the lower part of the mount in combination with stiffer bushings, it should solve the issue of the washers contacting the mount.
The idea on radiusing the mount is to allow for more travel of the endlink side to side during loading and unloading of the suspension. I noticed a little contact with the washers for the bushings and the mount. It appears that by radiusing the lower part of the mount in combination with stiffer bushings, it should solve the issue of the washers contacting the mount.
| jamminj6693 | 06-10-2006 08:51 AM |
Nice Repair Job Steve. :D Real Nice!
| Chiketkd | 06-10-2006 09:56 AM |
That's some pretty snazzy engineering right there Steve! I think your wife makes a good point! ;)
I'll have to crawl under your car at Mercer and take a look at it up close.
I'll have to crawl under your car at Mercer and take a look at it up close.
| silver arrow | 06-10-2006 02:50 PM |
[QUOTE=subieworx]It needs to be more like this. The one on the left is a stock MR2 spyder endlink. The two on the right are custom made sourcing parts from mcmaster.com and autozone. They cost about 25/set to make.
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/758000-758999/758816_59_full.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Can't find those urethane bushings?
[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/758000-758999/758816_59_full.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Can't find those urethane bushings?
| -OneWay- | 06-10-2006 04:26 PM |
More Rubbing
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After seeing the posts about broken arms I decided it might be a good idea to check my endlinks and bushings. The bushings and endlinks looked fine but I noticed bare spots on the swaybar where my tires have been hitting the swaybar and had rubbed the paint off.
Passenger Side
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/oneway_STi/passengersiderubbing.jpg[/IMG]
Driver Side
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/oneway_STi/driversiderubbing.jpg[/IMG]
I assume my tires are hitting when I am in tight pivoting turns during an Auto-X. This can't be good......
From looking at the situation under there I could see how that might have a leverageing effect on the endlink and thereby the the endlink tab on the arm that is breaking off.
It certaly isn't going to help arm even if it isn't the singular cause of the tab breaking.
Has anyone else noticed this?
For the Auto-X set up on my 05 STi I use 275 Kumho V710's on 17 x 8 +48 Rota Torques and the rest of the suspension stock.
To me the -/+ .5 lbs you save in weight and debatable gain in effective stiffness are not worth the risk of breaking my arms or the extra heat that the rubbing will put in to the inside of the edge of my tires.
This may be the perfect bar if you are not going to run big R comps on your car. It does feel great on the car, but I am going to be running Big R Comps so I think I will also switch to a WL with some decent endlinks.
FWIW.
the bar is still quiet after using the forumla 5 grease ;)
Passenger Side
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/oneway_STi/passengersiderubbing.jpg[/IMG]
Driver Side
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/oneway_STi/driversiderubbing.jpg[/IMG]
I assume my tires are hitting when I am in tight pivoting turns during an Auto-X. This can't be good......
From looking at the situation under there I could see how that might have a leverageing effect on the endlink and thereby the the endlink tab on the arm that is breaking off.
It certaly isn't going to help arm even if it isn't the singular cause of the tab breaking.
Has anyone else noticed this?
For the Auto-X set up on my 05 STi I use 275 Kumho V710's on 17 x 8 +48 Rota Torques and the rest of the suspension stock.
To me the -/+ .5 lbs you save in weight and debatable gain in effective stiffness are not worth the risk of breaking my arms or the extra heat that the rubbing will put in to the inside of the edge of my tires.
This may be the perfect bar if you are not going to run big R comps on your car. It does feel great on the car, but I am going to be running Big R Comps so I think I will also switch to a WL with some decent endlinks.
FWIW.
the bar is still quiet after using the forumla 5 grease ;)
| BlueSTI4Me | 06-10-2006 10:27 PM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]Thanks for the feedback.
My wife has a great idea, do you think I could sell enough tabs to recoup the $500 in broken control arms? :lol:[/QUOTE]
Well, what do you think I was hinting about? :D
Darryl
My wife has a great idea, do you think I could sell enough tabs to recoup the $500 in broken control arms? :lol:[/QUOTE]
Well, what do you think I was hinting about? :D
Darryl
| Sideshowbob | 06-10-2006 10:43 PM |
Cool fixes, but why not just start with a Whiteline 27-29?
| z3coupe | 06-10-2006 10:57 PM |
Well, if those brackets work, if anyone is interested, I now have my Strano bar available for sale.
| silver arrow | 06-11-2006 12:30 AM |
The tabs won't fix the rubber bushings from falling apart every 6 months. I want my cake adn to eat it too.
| wrxkix | 06-11-2006 10:48 AM |
I will be using Energy Suspension bushing kit purchased from Autozone, it has the bushings in eight packs. For about $12.00, you can have your cake and eat it too. ;) Hopefully pics some time tonight. I'll talk to you guys later, I have to get busy cleaning out garage so I can put all this together today.
| RedTRex | 06-11-2006 06:17 PM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]Thanks for the feedback.
We specifically made sure it would be DS and AS legal. Anyone see any issues running this in stock class?
:lol:[/QUOTE]
Since the hole is already present in the control arm, the bracket can be considered part of the end link I suppose.....
We specifically made sure it would be DS and AS legal. Anyone see any issues running this in stock class?
:lol:[/QUOTE]
Since the hole is already present in the control arm, the bracket can be considered part of the end link I suppose.....
| kursplat | 06-11-2006 06:49 PM |
[QUOTE=RedTRex]Since the hole is already present in the control arm, the bracket can be considered part of the end link I suppose.....[/QUOTE]
pretty sure WHATEVER you do to mount the bar, as long as it doesn't change any of the other stock suspension points, is ok. it's considered part of the bar
pretty sure WHATEVER you do to mount the bar, as long as it doesn't change any of the other stock suspension points, is ok. it's considered part of the bar
| RedTRex | 06-11-2006 07:24 PM |
[QUOTE=kursplat]pretty sure WHATEVER you do to mount the bar, as long as it doesn't change any of the other stock suspension points, is ok. it's considered part of the bar[/QUOTE]
yes, that was the thought I had.
yes, that was the thought I had.
| wrxkix | 06-11-2006 07:26 PM |
Well I just finished the install and everything looks good. The good is the mount feels rock solid. The bad is the endlink bushings did not work out quite as well as I would have hoped. The bushings I got were to small ( short ) but since I had some extra bushings laying around, I came up with fix that seems to be working fine for now. If anyone is working on a new endlink design that use the same mounting points, I would be interested it seeing what you come up with. That, with the reinforced mount could really be the cake and eat it too that silver arrow is speaking of.
I added the extra bushing to get the swaybar away from the mount. I jacked the car in extreme angles to verify the bar cannot contact the mount. Radiusing the mount helped give more room as you can see in the pics.
I took the car for a drive up the Blue Ridge Parkway and everything felt tight and seems to be working well. But I really wont know till I get to a couple of autoxs.
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p032cd5aa7f6f59bf2571c0dceb73eaee/ee8ec6f3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p5edb180df510b1ef8d49ca826d4b5055/ee8eb93c.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p97deaef7fd532c9512308c1388c00661/ee8eb45d.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p339db776bbc43c615724e4da175121a1/ee8eb680.jpg[/IMG]
This pic shows the wheel and control arm at full extension. As you can see, even if the wheel is in the air the swaybar does not contact the mount
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p36982b543234be10318c1475f4469ac4/ee8eb670.jpg[/IMG]
I added the extra bushing to get the swaybar away from the mount. I jacked the car in extreme angles to verify the bar cannot contact the mount. Radiusing the mount helped give more room as you can see in the pics.
I took the car for a drive up the Blue Ridge Parkway and everything felt tight and seems to be working well. But I really wont know till I get to a couple of autoxs.
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p032cd5aa7f6f59bf2571c0dceb73eaee/ee8ec6f3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p5edb180df510b1ef8d49ca826d4b5055/ee8eb93c.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p97deaef7fd532c9512308c1388c00661/ee8eb45d.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p339db776bbc43c615724e4da175121a1/ee8eb680.jpg[/IMG]
This pic shows the wheel and control arm at full extension. As you can see, even if the wheel is in the air the swaybar does not contact the mount
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid207/p36982b543234be10318c1475f4469ac4/ee8eb670.jpg[/IMG]
| RedTRex | 06-11-2006 07:29 PM |
It's shure purdy Steve. :p :)
| AndrewSS | 06-11-2006 08:04 PM |
good job! :)
| Chiketkd | 06-11-2006 08:34 PM |
Great work Steve. Looks very sturdy! :)
| silver arrow | 06-11-2006 10:32 PM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]I will be using Energy Suspension bushing kit purchased from Autozone, it has the bushings in eight packs. For about $12.00, you can have your cake and eat it too. ;) Hopefully pics some time tonight. I'll talk to you guys later, I have to get busy cleaning out garage so I can put all this together today.[/QUOTE]
What application are the bushings or part #?
What application are the bushings or part #?
| silver arrow | 06-11-2006 10:36 PM |
Amazing how Sam has disappeared, great support for his product and the community:sarcastic:
| WRXedUSA | 06-11-2006 10:44 PM |
That looks like a lot of work.
I would opt for a larger flat washer on the control arm though.
I would opt for a larger flat washer on the control arm though.
| pignoseSTI | 06-12-2006 12:12 AM |
Hey wrxkix, great job on the mounts. They look like they would strengthen the attachment point on the arm significantly. Regarding your question on the legality in autox stock class, I have "some" doubts but certainly hope its ok. Reading the '06 rule book, bushing material is mentioned as legal to switch, but no mention of method of bar mounting or attachment points. However, in Street Touring and Street Prepared, there is a obvious effort to mention that method of attachment and locating points are unrestricted. It is that 2nd bolt in the existing arm hole that has me concerned. Win some events, let us all know. Thats the true test. Some guy will protest you, then a ruling will be made. Tough way to clarify gray areas, but sometimes its best. Good luck!
| Impreza01 | 06-12-2006 12:15 AM |
[QUOTE=silver arrow]Amazing how Sam has disappeared, great support for his product and the community:sarcastic:[/QUOTE]
He probably stuck his head in teh sand and refuses to believe his product is flawed in anyway. :rolleyes:
He probably stuck his head in teh sand and refuses to believe his product is flawed in anyway. :rolleyes:
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